Paula White Blames God for Her Divorce

When she went on Carman’s TV show on TBN (Sept. 12, 2007 episode), Paula White gave no hint whatsoever of taking personal responsibility for her divorce. Instead, everything she said made it clear that she believes that her divorce is nothing but a trial that God has brought into her life, totally beyond her own control, and for which she bares no blame.

She was very careful to spin her words so as to avoid any discussion of the wrongness of divorce, or of she and Randy’s personal responsibility for making an unbiblical decision. Instead, she only discussed her divorce as a trial which she cannot control or correct, which is what she is biblically bound to do through restoration and reconciliation with Randy. The reality of divorce being a personal decision that is in violation of Scripture and that can be repented of, does not enter the discussion.

Here are the statements she made that clearly reveal her attitude, taken from a transcript of the interview:

“I embrace the concept that I would not let my trial be wasted in life,”

“I often say ‘I didn’t write the script, but I’m learning to live it out with the best of my ability for the honor of God, with dignity, with grace, with favor, embracing His word.”

“Some of the greatest development in the men and women of God … were those in adverse situation, those in opposition. But it pulled out because you had that decision. You can either gravitate and put your hand to the plow and say, ‘Okay, God, I don’t get this one; I don’t even like this one. But still what do You have to say to me? I will not be moved.'”

“Because when you know who you are and whose you are, I believe it gives you that inner fortitude and that strength to face whatever life situation you may have to go through,”

“When I don’t understand life, I’m not going to draw back. I have decided to do one thing even my mind doesn’t comprehend it – draw nigh,”

“I believe when people can find out who they are, then you can be equipped to handle life’s situations.”

Many of the things she says are true statements WHEN they are in reference to trials and circumstances beyond our control, such as sicknesses, death of a loved one, natural disasters, etc. But it is presumptuous and arrogant to say these things in reference to sinful personal choices she and Randy have made.

She is excusing what she is doing. She is absolving herself of any personal responsibility for bringing this “trial” to pass herself, or for fulfilling the duty to stop the divorce and reconcile with her husband, and in the process is making God out to be the cause of this divorce. That is blatant arrogance and an act of being self-willed. She is spinning the rhetoric to make herself look good.

Carman, being aware of the critics of Paula, had the arrogance to say that people who don’t have the “wherewithal” to assess the situation should not judge Paula or “open that person up to look,” as he put it.

Who would that be Carman? Anyone who would dare criticize Paula? Listen, Randy and Paula promote themselves as ministers of Christ, and they do so very publicly. Anyone with a clear understanding of the Biblical teaching on divorce does in fact have the “wherewithal” to comment on the situation by calling them to repent of their now-public sin, their continued denial of personal responsibility, and their God-blaming. Shame on you Carman for tolerating her self-justifying and God-blaming comments on your show and then chiding those of us who would seek to call her to repentance and obedience to Scripture.

She is not the helpless victim she is making herself out to be. She shares responsibility with Randy to seek reconciliation. She needs to shut her mouth about how much this is a God-sent trial. It isn’t, it was brought upon them by themselves, and it is correctable if they’ll only heed Biblical counsel and submit to the Word of God. She needs to quit deceiving herself that God is going to bless her for her response in this situation. He won’t do that until her response is to obey His clearly revealed will regarding divorce and marriage, which is plainly spelled out in His Word. So far, she and Randy have ignored it.

Paula seems too caught up in staying on top of her game, being famous, being the life coach to the stars, and keeping the large donations coming in to be Biblical. Her words continue to reveal that it really is all about her. That’s the core of the prosperity message she champions. Being broken publicly and confessing her sin with humility seems to be the furthest thing from her mind. Her willful disobedience to Scripture and her presumptuous defense of herself is a dishonor to Christ, His Word, and His church.

(HT: to Nathan Williams for the pointer to the article)

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1,066 Responses to Paula White Blames God for Her Divorce

  1. JCW says:

    This is all so disturbing….I am waiting for God to take these pimps down off their high-horses! Or should I say high-Bentleys?

    • PYK says:

      All we should be doing is to pray for Paula White and Juanita Bynum, for there is no doubt that they are true women of God, but the enemy is just behind to destroy them. I hope and pray that people should tests the spirit behind all of this, because if people are not careful, they will end up not following Christ and that is the plan of the enemy.

      • janelle says:

        U right about that they truely are women of God they both have taught me so much an have taken my spiritual walk from level to level.The enemy will not get the better of them in jesus name

    • PYK says:

      All we should be doing is to pray for Paula White and Juanita Bynum, for there is no doubt that they are true women of God, but the enemy is just behind to destroy them. I hope and pray that people should tests the spirit behind all of this, because if people are not careful, they will end up not following Christ and that is the plan of the enemy. Who are we to judge.

      • Shana H. says:

        Yes we should pray for them. As to whether or not they are true women of God I don’t know. But I do know women should not be preaching and there is something very wrong if a woman claims to be a Christian, yet will not follow the commands God has given in His word. Also Paula and Randy shouldn’t have even married each other in the first place since they were married before and had divorced. They were living in adultery the whole time they were married to each other and then divorcing each other just added to the sins they have committed against God.

  2. Tim Kurek says:

    She definitely is a false prophet! Pray for her though…. I am.

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com

    tim kurek

    • janelle says:

      she is a extremly powerful women that has touched the world dont judge her on one trial but look at the difference she has made in many peoples lives. judge yourself an leave paula alone.She as done more for God than all who are judging her.

  3. Good call on this one. I don’t typically pay much attention to the TBN types. But this particular issue, has really bugged me. Its issues like this one, and the irresponsible way in which they are handling it, that make it even more difficult for other Christians to be seen as relevant.

    • janelle says:

      she is not God weather she is wrong or right she is not perfect but indeed a awesome women that has done more for God than most people.Pray that the enemy get his hands off all her affairs so she can do what she does best serving the lord an spreadind the word

  4. JP says:

    Either she is your sister, neighbor, or enemy. But whichever we are called to love, 1 Corinth 13:4-7,
    Scott, the father has put something better than this in you. Choose.

  5. Scott W. Kay says:

    JP,

    Your “midrash” continues to come across as very condescending toward me and full of assumptions about what you do not know about me.

    First, I had too many degrees. Then, I wasn’t “real” enough for you (someone you’ve never met). Then the Gospel wasn’t clear enough for your satisfaction. Then, when it was given clearly, you dismissed it as too theological. Then you insinuated that my explanation of the Gospel isn’t relevant to my worldview. Then you mock my definition of the Gospel as if it were not the message of Jesus, because Jesus might not have used my exact words, even though those words are exactly true of the Gospel. Then you put an offensively vulgar acronym both in God’s mouth and on my blog. Now, you condescend even further toward me by judging me for not being as loving toward a professed Christian as you deem sufficient. To top things off, you insinuate that I am being Pharisaical in giving theological responses or in calling a professed Christian to repentance. It is you that has been Pharisaical toward me from the start. I can take honest and respectful give-and-take, but you’ve got to loose the condescension, brother. The Father has put something better than that in you. Please play nice or go home. Choose.

  6. Ck says:

    James 1: 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

  7. JP says:

    First and foremost I want to apologize. It was and is not my purpose to be construed as condescending or to injure you in any manner. I have sat with pastors and friends who have their masters and doctorates and I am considerate of their learning.
    The comment to be real is a device we use to remind ourselves that the language of academia and of the church is usually not the language of the marketplace. It was my desire to relate at the level where Jesus ministered most often, outside the wall and in the marketplace. Unfortunately my poorly conceived attempt did not accomplish the desired relational interaction. For that you have my sincere apology.
    Unfortunately in any relational intercourse, if one believes the other party to be untruthful then the whole discourse is broken. As you believe me to be such, I see no reason to proceed.
    So I bid you adieu and in the name of Jesus I pray that the Father would grant you to be mightily strengthened by his Spirit in the inward man: that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith; that, being rooted and founded in love, you may be completely able to apprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,– even to know the love of Christ; which surpasses knowledge; that you might be filled with all the fullness of God.

  8. Scott W. Kay says:

    JP,

    I very much appreciate your words. Thank you for saying them.

    Please know that I sincerely share with you the desire to express the message of Jesus in a way that is accessible to most readers. I say “most” because, due to the nature of this particular medium, and the nature of particular (debatable) issues, I think it sometimes requires some rather involved explanations that can sometimes sound churchy or technical or from the academy. So when asked about specifics, I do try to be as clear as possible, hence my answer on the Gospel. Typically those kinds of things usually only show up in the course of the conversation posted in the comments when people are debating over specifics.

    So thank you for the reminder to avoid the academia-sounding approach and keep things at a marketplace level here. I think we share the same desire on that, and sincerely hope that that’s what folks will see here as the normal pattern. Thank you also for your kind words of prayer. May the Lord do the same for you. Blessings, brother.

  9. Derrick says:

    “Pastor” Dustin Hawkins of Family Praise Center in San Antonio may have clued us in on the issue at stake here through a message I just watched him preach on TBN (up late, insominia). Hawkins, whose father “Bishop” Rich Hawkins is the suspected paramore of the above mentioned Paula “Plastica” White, stated quite clearly that the “rules” and “regulations” developed in the letters and epistles, aside from the actuall words of Christ in the gospels, were merely, “subjective truth.” Using John chapter 8 as the fulcrum from which to balance his arguement Hawkins, which his big daddy bishop watching on from a comfy chair on the side of the stage, goes on to state that Christ’s lack of concern for the adultuerous woman was clear eveidence that God (in the person of Christ, at least) was not at all concerned with our sin; Jesus simply ignored the woman focusing only on the scribes and pharises as they continued to press him about the application of the Law in this particular case. By ignoring the woman, Christ was signaling to his believers that they are not to judge nor are they to chastize those in the church body who have sin (note: not “sinned”).

    All of this is easy to do when the rest of the New Testament is busted down to “subjective” truth status. If Paul’s directives to Timothy or Titus are merely opinions and carry little or no weight when compared to the words of Christ then anything is possible. Even a possible future marriage between Plastic Paula and Hawkin’s jolly rancher paw. Ironically, or maybe by design, most of White’s defenders on this issue really take a shine to John 8 as a major counter defense against any calls for repentance and/or stepping down. Maybe believers ought to dispense with the rest of the Bible with the exception of John 8 (even thught the verses that comprise the story in question are not present in every existant copy of the Gospel of John).

    One last thing, there’s seems to be this assumption that all these yahoos and theological morons are christians to begin with. I am of the opinion that they are not and maybe never were. I don’t say this as a fact, I merely wanted to throw that line of thinking out there in lieu of the tendency of christians to accept just about anyone into their churches (or community at large) without much evaluation as to were these folks come from or where they got their biblical training or whether they just might be schisters. Now I’ll make like Christ and go scribble in the sand for a while.

  10. WOW! Excellent commentary regarding this situation concerning Randy and Paula White. I especially appreciate your statement that any person who has a sound understanding of Scripture, can and should correct those who are in disobedience to the Word of God. God’s Word is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, and this is our basis for commenting on issues such as this one.

    How blasphemous it is to also say that God has placed this trial in her life. NO WAY!!! For Paula to say that contradicts the very word of God (James 1:13-15).

    Today’s church needs to wake up and read 2 Peter 2 and get their eyes opened up to what has been deceiving them for far too long.

  11. Scott W. Kay says:

    Derrick – Wow, that is incredible that they just blatantly destroy the objective nature of the truth penned by the apostle Paul. I guess they have to in order to keep justifying their sin and error. The Scriptures get in their way, so they explain it away. You’re right, it sounds like what unbelievers do, doesn’t it? Since you live nearby, I guess you’ll get to see the circus up close and personal.

    Kurt – Yes, a fresh re-reading of 2 Peter 2 would go a long way to cleaning house in the church, wouldn’t it? Peter takes no prisoners with false teachers like these. He says some pretty tough stuff! He has no tolerance whatsoever for them, only promises of divine judgment. I pray people will be more discerning. That’s been my aim in writing these posts on these people. Thanks for commenting!

  12. Barbara says:

    I just came across this site…I had not seen the interview with TBN. I had to turn it off as soon as I heard Carmen refer to Paula White as Princess Diana….O’my!!!

  13. Scott W. Kay says:

    Barbara – You’re right, it’s sickening to watch the man-centered glorifying of people who CLAIM to be the ministers of Christ. I think if Carmen would have done that to the apostle Paul, Paul would have rebuked him, and made it painfully clear that Paul was nothing (not to mention not a Prince!) and Christ is the King. That’s the difference between Paul and Paula. He cared about one thing and one thing alone the glory of Christ in the Gospel. Paula not only gets the Gospel terribly wrong, but she is about her own glory. That much is evident. People love to worship celebrity, and Paula gives them what they want. While Paul gave them what they needed most – Christ.

    • janelle says:

      funny you feel that way brother that she gets the gospel wrong because from where i am coming from not only has her teaching changed the lives of thousands of peolpe who are now serving God an doind Gods work. Who is man to judge her an say weather or not she knows God.Why do people only look at the bad an not the good.I may not know alot but your”ll that should be standing in prayer with her judge her. now i understand that verse those that think of themselfs wise become fools.That women does more for God than most people pray for her rather than judge

  14. Benny says:

    Wow, this whole divorce thing scares me to bits. I’m divorced myself cos there was no love between us plus he cheated on me and could never talk about it. Separated now but not yet legally divorced. Had 2 affairs after the separation. Where does that leave me? Scary.

  15. Scott W. Kay says:

    Benny,

    Sounds like you’ve been through some tough times. Jesus tells you that since your husband has committed adultery against you, you do have biblical grounds for divorce. See Matthew 19. You are in a very different situation than the one Paula and Randy White are in. They do not have Biblical grounds for divorce, but sounds like you do. So do not despair. Go in peace. and may the Lord heal your wounded heart. Your husband is the one in sin here. But He does not stand to condemn you, only to receive you in His love.

    • Annette says:

      Benny,

      Even if you have legal rights and scriptural backing to divorce, the bible has said do not remarry cos if you do it would be adultry so your having affairs is not God will.

      • kris says:

        I am sorry Annette, I disagree. That’s where a lot of Christians are misinformed. There are many books, well reviewed by theologians and pastors alike, that look into what the Bible says about divorce and remarriage, and it is not like what most Christians mistakenly think.

        The Bible doesn’t say that if you remarry you are having affairs! In fact in the first century, it was understood that if a person had a certificate of divorce, it was a provision from God TO remarry. What God hates was the putting away of wives whenever the men (it was a patriarchal society) had had enough of these women. He wanted them to be properly divorced so that they could remarry.

        And the Jews of Jesus’ time understood clearly the Law of Moses – that adultery was not the ONLY grounds for divorce. Which makes sense: if you are married to someone who threatens to kill you but has not slept with someone else, your covenant isn’t broken? God thinks more of sex than murder?? I know of a woman who is now dead because she didn’t think she had grounds to leave her husband. She kept the marriage intact to please God and the church. She lost her life, her husband is in jail and her kids are orphans. I suppose some people are happy that at least her marriage was intact.

    • Teracie Hardy says:

      Contradiction: apostle Paul actually says that a woman should not separate from her husband for any reason! Mr Benny lean to Gods grace its not about legalities. What Jesus was saying is that you cannnot jusptify anything yourself. The only justification is through Jesus death on the cross. And your faith that it was for you! He also said that if you look at a woman and lust for her in your heart you have already committed adultery. So have you been perfect no. Dont try to make sense of everything and figure God out. It can hinder you growth andprogress in God. Lean to His grace and His death for you. You are free. God said what He has brought together let no man usunder. No man but Jesus says that He can and will destroy the yolk. Go free. YOur faith can and will heal you!

    • kim says:

      scott you were not correct in telling benny that she has grounds for divorce you really need to go back and read the word of god right god allows you to divorce based on fornication and death fornication is when your spouse have had sexual relations with someone he/she are not married to and she is free to divorce and remarriage to someone else also she is free to remarry if her spouse pass away from death and also i would like to make light of some things the word says that we should not get into a debate about god children of the high most god read 1 cor 7 and you will get to know what god meant for marriage instead of listening to people concering marriage

  16. SG says:

    These preachers are in association with other preachers who are committing the same offenses. We need to publically expose this coven of false preachers. Please, if you are in the San Diego County area, do not provide support of any kind to Barry Cook of Ambassador Family Church. He is in “ministerial relationship” with both Rick Hawkins and Paula White. http://WWW.ambassadorfamily.com claims to be the “Perfect church for people who are not.” This claim can also be found on Paula Whites WWIC website. Barry Cook divorced his wife after having an affair with his associate pastors wife resulting in pregnancy. (The marriage he broke up, he actually performed the wedding ceremony a couple of years previous.) Barry Cook placed the woman he had the affair with on staff. He continues to deceive our community with no conscious for the many families he is responsible for splitting up. It is unfathomable this reproach, yet he continues to pronounce himself Apostle over other apostles, pastors, teachers, etc.

  17. sebsebbie says:

    I think it is interesting SG that you have such an opinion about something you know nothing about. My question to you is, when did God give you the power to be so overly righteous and judgemental? When did you get annointed to spread gossip and false truth? I’m shocked that anyone who calls themselves a Christian can get up on the internet, talk about a cheap talk that doesn’t promote the kindgom, and then turn around and praise Jesus. That is of course, if you even consider yourself a Christian any more. Amazing…well I am sure you know the scripture that goes along with your gossipping tongue. No wonder the secular society doesn’t take Christians seriously, there aren’t many Jesus followers who have learned to forgive, evrything is up for judgement. How do you save souls that way?

    • janelle says:

      I SO AGREEE WITH YOU WHEN DID MAN BECOME SO POWERFUL

      • getyourown says:

        also agree..too much judgement of all kinds going around in the church today, makes me sick; Jesus said that those who judge will be judged

  18. wanchwa says:

    dont divorce ur husband nor ur wife bcos this is not the perfect will of God either for paula or for anyone.

  19. SG says:

    Call AFC and speak to the pastor yourself and ask him. If these allegations are false than let this pastor explain the divorces that followed, the departure of key leaders, and the fact that many people came to us once they found out about the alledged affair to only confirm what we have already known. Were they all wrong? Did his wife divorce him because she just woke up and decided to walk away from years of ministry and devotion to her husband? Did the woman involved in the affair divorce her husband because of some sort of epidemic?

    You are obviously checking the internet to find out what is being said about this situation. It is amazing how you feel so self righteous and annointed to defend such immorality without even asking the right person if what is being said is true. You are more concerned with what is being said vs the behavior described. If there is any chance that this is true, which I know that it is, you need to take yourself to the source or is it just easier for you to rant at me than to confront the truth.

    While you are at it, ask the pastor about the souls of the people who have divorced as a result of this alleged affair. What happens to them as a result of the influence they allowed in their lives?

    I’m not intimidated by your violent outrage motivated by your displaced loyalty to defend such evil behavior. Again, go ask the pastor. I’ll be real curious to hear his response.

  20. SG says:

    Yes I am a Christian. If I died tomorrow I will go to heaven. This I base upon over 20 years of relationship with Jesus Christ. Thank you for your interest in my spiritual state, but I asure you that no apostacy has been commited on my part.

    There are a lot of people both in the church and out of the church that ask why do we keep following blindly people who continually bear fruit of darkness. It is said of some Christians that we are weak in this area because of insecurity, lonliness, dysfunctions of all kinds. As soon as a Christian stands up against abuses in the church, people like you throw out your handy dandy scriptures trying to curse us with your pious attitude. Maybe we will see true Kingdom living in the house of God once it is cleansed from all the hypocrisy.

    According to your doctrine, Christians should continue to cover up the abuses in the church and deceive the lost into submission to a false man or woman of god because it is somehow good for them. You are afraid that if they knew the truth they would not come to a particular church once they understood the hypocrisies inside.

    This places the responsibility back on leadership to stop assuming that the sheep will continue to protect the hirelings in the pulpit. Any blood shed because of lost souls in on the hands of the ones forcing the deception to continue. Not on the people who are refusing to support ridiculous ministries full of lust and greed.

    The failure of church leadership is the cause for many to be cautious of Christians not the general congregation. If pastors are scared their dirty laundry might become public, than this is a good thing. Maybe such scandalous behavior will lessen and evangelism will be more affective. It begins from the head up. I personally do require more from leadership to ensure Kingdom increase and stability. Maybe you are the one selling them short because of the mediocrity you’ve learned to accept.

    Please forgive me for any offense I may have caused you. I know these things are difficult to take when you believe in something that is not what it appears to be. I hope that you will forgive me for any hurt that I may have caused. I can not do anything about the way things really are. Believe me, the aforementioned situation has been a very huge dissappointment.

    • thaddeus says:

      First off I would like to know why you are watching people such as these who know nothing about the gospel of Jesus? Their carnal actions are small compaired to the venom they spray from the pulpit! You say you are secure that when you die you are going to heaven. when you die you are dead. Untill the return of christ thats where you will be if you are one of the choosen of God. If not you will wait on the second ressurection. Christ is the savior of the entire world, and some day every knee will bow and every tongue will proclaim Jesus as their Lord and the Father as God. So all the condemnation in the world does no good for those who are blinded to the truth. God will call all to repentence in his time not yours. You did not even choose God he choose you. Anything other than that nullifies His grace. In love and truth I pray for you and I ask you do the same for me and the rest of Gods creation. To the pure all things are pure, but to the defiled all things are defiled! thank you for your time and god bless.

  21. SG says:

    Hi A. Vagle (sebsebbie),

    Now that I know for sure who you are and that you are most likely involved with AFC I thoroughly understand your response to the information you’ve heard. I know it is difficult to process this type of information. Please know that it is your absolute right and responsibility to ask questions of your leadership. If you feel afraid for any reason to bring these issues up, than please take someone with you for support. There are certain people whose initials I will use here (Pastor GT, and wife AT, FC and wife NC, worship leader VL, Usher last intitial P and guest services coordinator CR used to be CL before the divorce) will not tell you the truth about this situation. They will convince that you have only heard an evil report to make you feel stupid for listening to such information. Believe me they will stare you down until you relent. You will have to insist to speak with the pastor himself. Any other person will try to deflect these types of questions away from the pastor so he personally is not found guilty of lying. You will have to find a way to confront him directly. Do not go alone. You will feel a rush of intimidation or fear come over you, but press on. Either way you will know you did everything you could to seek out the truth. Once you have asked the question, no matter if you are told the truth or not, you will be alienated from the flock and watched closely. Suddenly you will feel that you are no longer trusted. Only move forward if you know you will be able to handle what will come next.

    Blessings to you sister.

  22. sebsebbie says:

    I don’t think you know anything about me and who I am or how I am inolved or not involved with the church, you only have a name which isn’t even correct. You only have a perception. And that is your right. Here is my whole point. It is not to come out and say you are right, wrong or indifferent. I find that by being direct and to the point, creates an atmosphere of truth because sugar coating anything never got the church anywhere.

    I have heared numerous rumors about people, places and things. The discernment of the spirit is what leads me to people and places. I do not know the validity of anyones claims, and I really don’t care to. I am not easily persuaded by gossip and rumors. My feeling with people and the church is two fold. There are plenty of people who have committed sin, and we are all ministers in our own right because that is what we were called to do, I don’t know how passing judgement is going to lead anyone closer to the spirit of Christ. Do not judge, I stand firmly on that. Furthermore, if the church is a place where a person feels mislead and decieved, then by all means, it is not a place for you. I agree, find another church and find another pastor.

    My problem is that people aren’t perfect, not in ministry, governments and plenty of leaders that we vote for and run our country. But we don’t vote them out of office, our only defense is to gossip in tabloids and create problems. My question through all of this is why do we look at perceptions of ministry leaders and create opinions, ideas and thoughts? Why do we care so much? No ministry leader should be looked at so highly that we forget why we go to church. The pastor is not our Christ, he is not our Redeemer, he is only a sphere of influence, just like my sphere of influence includes friends at work, neighbors, my family. All who have issues I am certain they haven’t told me.

    We as Christians are not looked at seriously because we don’t even take ourselves seriously. We get stuck on titles, positions, names and forget that a leader is only a leader if we let him become one. No offense, but I don’t “look up” to people as heroes, those to be followed, or esteem them in a place where only Christ should be. We need mentors, and I would lastly say that not all mentors are perfect either.

    People have a decision to make about the church. Do you go to feel the presence of God, or do you go because you look up to someone. The Bible never told us to follow a leader in the church, it talks about the church being united as one body. This is the problem I see from having been to several churches with the similar histories in gossip, and what I will continue to see as jugements. Jesus never portrayed himself as anything other than a brother, a friend and the son of God, we have all chosen to create leaders based on our history as humans, quite frankly because we needed one. He told us to follow His teaching, and obey God’s Word. He was a Messenger and He made that known.

    We all have our own hearts to reveal on the day of judgement. I don’t know that I want to be known for slander and the spreading of wildfire. I want Christ to know me for the one who wasn’t caught up with the ways of this world, and only cared to see His Glory manifest in everything. Perception, is just that, and there has to come a time where we go past perception and say to ourselves, reardless of what people do, I am required to love them anyway. Whether a person is guilty or not, we must find the good that Christ put in them. We must look at each other the way Christ sees each other.

    That is why we are Christian.

  23. SG says:

    Thank you for your opinion, I can appreciate differing views, but like you I am not swayed easily either. My judgement of this particular situation is based upon facts and not on my feelings. My personal feeling have nothing to do with what is. The facts are there if you are after the truth you will confront the situation as recommended.

    The days of covering up for criminal and/or fraudulant behavior in the church are over. Some of us can go beyond our feelings about a situation and deal with facts no matter how difficult the truth is. To put one’s head in the sand and ignore what is right in front of you especially when a cover up is involved is not representing the Kingdom in any way no matter what “high road” you think you are taking.

    Most of us understand the commandments of Love and the responsibility to JUDGE as Christians. It is a difficult task for those only mentored under an abusive authority. There are enough scriptures to prove both sides of the coin. The key is to be able to do both. My judgement of this situation has nothing to do with whether I love the people involved or not, it has to do with Love God and Hate sin.

    When children are punished for doing wrong they will often reply with “you don’t love me.” When this first happens, parents will have to reinforce their love to that child for proper correction to take place. When that same child continues to use that comment, he or she has become successful at manipulating the parent. Soon a sense of entitlement is born and then the child is now running the household.

    Yes, I feel extreme love and compassion for the people involved, I’ve known them all since 1998. However, I also know that they are running from the truth. Not only are in denial to protect their livelihoods, they are requiring the church to have to defend their actions. If they were truly operating in a leadership role in regards to this situation, you and I would not be having this conversation.

    I love you sister. In order to seek peace in our Christian relationship, I will not continue this specific topic with you until you have spoken to the people involved for yourself. We will have to agree to disagree for now.

    Success to the Kingdom, Success to you!!

  24. sebsebbie says:

    It’s quite alright, I have enough information that I feel no need to discuss further with you or anyone else about a situation that does not create life.

    There is no “High Road”, it is a judgement based on how a person chooses to live their life. I choose the way of Love Everyone and Judge Not Lest You Be Judged.

    Further, I believe that the journey a person walks in life has everything to do with how they view situations and positions. Though I have never been in a situation as your claim about the pastor of the church you attended, I have been the center of gossip and humiliation with more than 3 witnesses who swore to things that never happened. I understand and know first hand how things can get thrown around. Though I make no judgement on the truth and severity of what happened with the pastor you are referring to, I leave myself open without judgement.

    Again, this is why we all walked in our own wilderness. I have my experiences in life that I have learned to draw from, and you have yours. It is different, but respectful just the same.

    I conclude my perspective on this topic. I hope you find a House you are comfortable with.

  25. SG says:

    For the general reader unsure of the stand he or she should take if they receive evidence that there is any kind of criminal or fraudulant behavior coming from their church leadership, board, and/or ministerial and administrative staff:

    The firt thing to do is set an appointment with the parties involved and communicate your concerns. Take elders, deacons or other leaders with you to ensure witnesses are present to judge motives, responses, and the overall atmosphere of the meeting. If a resolution is brought forth depending on the severity of the acts in question allow some time for restructure. Any and all criminal acts should be reported to your local authorities immediately. In the cases of fraudulant behavior, this is usually harder to prove and harder for some to admit too.

    In my situation, my husband met with all of the pastoral staff of the church to discuss the ongoing sexual immorality throughout the church. Our sons were placed under the authority of some of the people in question, so we as parents needed to know what the church’s stand on immoral behavior was. Neither my husaband nor I had spoken to any other person regarding our concerns. We were told that we were coming against authority. My husband immediately responded by saying, “We are not coming against authority, we are coming to authority.”

    We were left with no other choice than to remove ourselves from the church. Once the affair in question became more public, my husband and I went to a Sunday morning church service with the intent of speaking to the pastor after the service. Before we could even sit down, the pastor spotted my husband and sent 6 ushers to through him out of the church. (My husband had me wait in our vehicle until he felt it was safe to go in.) When I saw him coming out with the ushers around him, I thought he was coming to get me. He came up to the truck and said we are being thrown out.

    Since that time we have seen several people from the church in our community. They asked us what happened. We told them the truth. We tried to deal with our concerns privately but were forced into a public forum because of the immediate cover up that ensued.

    I worked voluntarily in federal and state prisons for years. We called the people who ran the yard shot callers. Boy you knew who was in charge and you knew when you better do what they say or else. Whether you’ve seen how it works in jail or on the streets, anyone caught being a snitch is a marked man. This is the only way I can help anyone who is interested in this story to understand the setting. When a Christian dares to call into guestion immoral behavior of their leaders, all the do not judge, love everyone, etc scriptures are thrown at you like grenade. If those scriptures could be launched as a weapon, a fire ball would be seen for miles. If you’ve ever experienced this type of abuse from leadership, you know what I am describing.

    It is difficult to walk away from a place of worship where you have invested many years in building relationships, sowing financial seeds, and building ministry opportunities for evangelism, etc. Why are we still voicing our concerns, because we want our church back. Should the people be scattered because a few men decide to walk away from the scripture and live a duplicit lifestyle? In prison, the authorities can do very little to protect the general population from the shot callers. Christians should be able to defeat the wolves and not be stripped of their place in their assemblies because of evil men.

    Even though we might not be able to benefit from the church that we helped to build naturally and spiritually, we do not give it up to treacherous men and women.

  26. SG says:

    In closing, we have to make the stand trusting in God for the final outcome. Restoration is always promised. The people and the location may or may not change, but in the end we will see the Church prevail.

  27. Fred says:

    There are only 4 things to say about these people…Fake! Fake! Fake! and Fake!

  28. concerbha says:

    could other men of God still standing in the Lord help this issue, help thse couples out before we see total error manifested in the body of Christ.They sould quit public ministry and sort out their lives first before God’s judgement decends. god forbid. Who will listen to them

  29. smndbs says:

    RE: “Paula White Blames God for Her Divorce”

    Ye though I have never met nor seen a perfect individual. Romans 3:2 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Check yourself sir before publishing, & labeling/judging people. Matt 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

  30. Nick says:

    Final say! Please every one of you open the Bible and read, and post just what God says in His Word. Then there will be no judging, only remains the truth, that makes God the Judge, and He is the only one that brings Holy Ghost Conviction. Leave it in God’s hands,
    God Bless All.

  31. strevino says:

    Jesus came to forgive each of us of our sins, I believe that God will restore what the swarming locusts have eaten. Lord I pray you would heal these relationships and church families, please put your rightousness back into the church. There is so much hurt involved in these situations please heal all involved. We love you Lord and know that with you ALL things are possible. The Lord hears the prayers of His people and He will hear ours for these situations.

  32. stlouisgirl says:

    I am a former member of Ambassador Family Church. I left there several years ago to relocate to another state, but I still love my AFC family (and always will). I’m grieved by the adultery situation that has taken place as well as the public maligning that is occurring also. I think it’s obvious that what happened was wrong. Look at the fruit – marriages have been destroyed, ministry partnerships have been severed and a powerful church has been shaken to its core. But this was (and is) a church that has and will continue to birth great ministries. What can we do to help AFC get restored to its rightful spiritual place? Honesty and transparency is definitely required at this point, for it does no good to cover up. Also, perhaps this situation, terrible though it is, will serve to bring humility to many in AFC leadership. Although they will probably balk at this, the truth is that many AFC leaders had become very arrogant. You can’t minister to the flock when you look down on them. So although this is a horrible situation, I believe God will use it (even though He didn’t cause it) to bring correction and restoration to His body. AFC, though bruised and battered, is still a house of God.

  33. J.K. says:

    You guys are trippin…God will judge His house…He can handle it! Many of these people you speak of will come back…better…stronger and more Christ like…I have seen it so many times over the years. Also many who bloged here… who say they know facts and relate storys as facts… are really reprobates themselves in the christian community. I happen to be very fimular with the stories written about here…a insider if you will…many of the “facts” you speak of were reviewed throughly by thier spiritual oversight and/or concerned mentors…and almost every account was proven to be without merit and proven to be without substance… I know this for a fact… It is good advise for them never to let those like you… who speak from a vengeful attitude to give you hearing. Your comments stem from bitterness and are full of self rightous judgement. They are not evil people and do not desire to hurt anyone and would never attack like you. Every one knows you and your history of anger and being kicked out of churches for your angry bitter spirits. How did your sons turn out…by the way. Grace to the mountain. Can these burnt stones be rebuilt?…can these dry bones live? YES! The real church will be those who have come face to face with thier issues…meet mercy…they will know it is by faith in His grace alone…not by there religious law or ministry abilities but by Christ alone. How else will the church be rightous except by every man finding out he can”t do it…nor can you my rock throwing friends. FPC nad AFC do not and have not had a relationship for years now…once again your facts are SO bogus…later!

  34. DocMichael says:

    My personal opinion (which is all that it is), is that this divorce was simply a business decision on both of their parts. Sorry, I’ve dealt with too many people who have gone through this sort of thing to believe the reality of the service where they announced their intentions to divorce. I don’t care how “amicable” the breakup, folks in this situation don’t express this much goodwill towards each other at this stage (Randi spoke of continuing to support her and having her back to preach). If they were on such good terms, why did they split up? Where was the heartache? Anger? Bitter disappointment? Sorrow? Grief? Even unbelievers show more genuine emotion than they did. It makes zero sense and is completely counter to human experience.
    So, either (a) they are the greatest actor couple since Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor or (b) this was not a divorce in the normal, because it was not a marriage in the normal sense. This service was much closer in feel and flavor to two business partners announcing that one was leaving to start up a new company. Or, in church terms, it was closer to what you would see a staff member/pastor announces that they are leaving to go to a new position.
    Which is what I suspect this really was. Call me a cynic (obviously, in this case I am), but part of me suspect that was simply a way to expand their business “enterprise”. After all, the existing church is already going great guns. So why waste two mega-stars on it? By going their separate ways, the can have two two cash cows. Sure, Randi’s church will likely see some drop in revenue, but that will be more than offset by Paula’s hot new WOF complex in Texas (or where ever it is). This is simply splitting off a new franchise. No different really, than any other television spin-off.

  35. SG says:

    Please account for the divorce of the senior pastor and his wife and the associate pastor and his wife and the exodus of key leaders in the church. If all these facts are bogus than why did the divorces take place? If there are no scriptural grounds such as adultery, than what is the explanation? Scripturally, we are to stay married to our spouses regardless of some recent false doctrines that teach us that we are sometimes married for only a season. Where is the scriptural foundations for that?

    My family and I have never been kicked out of any church. Name the church smart guy. Name the person who kicked us out. You can’t because it doesn’t exist.

    As far as my sons. One of them is graduating from the Sheriff’s Academy on the 12th of December with honors. He has received numerous accomodations from our local sheriff’s department for his volunteer time with at risk youth here in our town. He mentored many young people and as a result, lives were really turned around.

    As a result of his relationship with the so called youth leaders at your beloved church, he was introduced to immorality and rebellion. This led him and other youths into a duplicit lifestyle completely unknown to him prior to his involvement with this youth group. He unfortunately like many others from this group got involved with drugs and other illegal activites. How many unwed pregnancies came out of that youth group. I can name at least 3. How many kids were arrested? How many kids committed suicide? How many kids ended up striping in a local club? How about LD the piano player. Why did he leave the church?

    My oldest son is paying his debt to society for his bad choices and now he is prospering more than he ever did at AFC.

    You think you can detract from the truth with your silly accusations and down right denials of misconduct, but you are the one that is deceived. This wrong doing will not go unpunished. Count on it. Read you Bible and find out what it has to say about what happens to people who offend God’s children. If I recall there is something about a millstone and a lake of fire. Check it out.

    Who is this so called group of mentors who supposedly counseled this man? Name them so we can call and verify their findings. Excuse me if we don’t take your word for it.

    No my facts are not bogus about FPC and AFC’s relationship. You just verified it. Thank you. Why did they discontinue fellowship? Hawkins and Cook were very close and Hawkins mininstered several times at AFC while we were there and he continued for some portion of time afterward. We got the flyers in the mail. What happened? One wouldn’t submit to the other.?Too many cooks in the kitchen. Hello!!

    No one is angry here brother but the devil and the people who thought they had this all sowed up with their settlement deals and whatever else was used to silence the afflicted.

    The reason the rebuke is now made public is because these preachers were too arrogant to answer to the allegation in private. They snubbed their noses and declared their self imposed authority as a scape goat. They think way too highly of themselves to have to give an account to anyone.

    Let us settle this once and for all. Take a DNA test and a lie detector test? If all the facts are bogus as you suggest than no one should be worried, right?

    Put your money where your mouth is my friend. If these things are true, the once genuine move of God is no longer present. Just because a person can sign a lease and put a sign out front doesn’t make it God. Look down the road at the Rosicrusion fellowship. They own millions of dollars worth of prime real estate and they have pictures of Jesus all over the place. What do you think eternity has in store for them? Deception is deception and people who peddle it for profit in the name of God will indeed be judged by Him.

    AFC, Jesus has left the building. Admit it and move on.

  36. SG says:

    The only time we’ve ever been asked to leave any church, is the time we came to speak to Barry Cook personally regarding these allegations. Thank you again for verifying that we were there and that this situation took place.

    We wanted answers and we are entitled to answers. Instead, your pastor hid behind a bunch of sheep. Why didn’t he just take the meeting?

    How come everytime someone challenges your pastor he used the same excuse. “Oh they are just hurt or they are just angry.” You guys believe that lie and you think he respects your loyalty. He walks away and thinks “idiots.” He has all of you right where he wants you, eating out of his hand and fighting his battles. What kind of pastor uses the sheep that way? Isn’t that the definition of a hireling?

    My god, the cultish atmosphere is worse than I ever imagined. God help these people. Set them free from all the fear and intimidation. Expose the lies and bring forth true revival again to North County. In Jesus’ Name.

  37. SG says:

    You claim that Cook didn’t talk to us because of anger or bitterness. (Which by the way is a completely false characterization and self serving to boot.)

    Thank you again for confirming that we tried to speak to this man privately before speaking out publically.

    I guess we’ve got his attention now.

  38. SG says:

    You claim that this pastor would never attack another person.

    Than why did he publically slander the character of Dan Jackson when he left the church. Mr Jackson retired from the Marine Corps with honors. I know I was there at the ceremony. He decided to serve as Cook’s armour bearer and after he challenged Cook with his concerns, Cook took a portion of a service and publically characterized Dan as a traitor. My husband sat in that service and yelled out, “Circle the Wagons Boys!” He was very disgusted by the way Cook treated Dan Jackson. Remember the video that was played with Hawkins prophesying there is one amoung you that will betray you. This was meant for Dan Jackson, but I guess we know now who the real traitor is.

    Dan Jackson had adopted 4 children and raised them as his own. Dan’s poor wife was alienated for her concerns about Dan’s involvement with Cook. This entire family moved away and never retaliated for Cook’s betrayal. Mrs. Cook once characterized to me that Mrs. Jackson was “whimsical.” Mrs Jackson served as a reservist who had command over many other soldiers. She has more dignity and honor that this group will ever truly pocess.

    What about the public maligning of Vince Limon for leaving the Church and divorcing his wife after he found out about the affair. I believe the attack from Cook was something like, “If Vince was taking care of his wife like he should have, this situation would never have happened.”

    Your pastor will attack anyone quick fast and in a hurry for challenging him. The difference between he and us is that he won’t do it to your face. At least we took this to him first.

    What say you?

  39. SG says:

    http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3710230613

    Go to this address to read another account of Cooks personal attack against Vince Limon. This is an entirely seperate account of the same situation we mentioned above.

    Lastly, I will comment as to why Cook accuses people of being angry when he is confronted.

    Cook knows that there are certain people out there that he can not control with fear, intimidation, and other forms of manipulation. Therefore, he is highly threatened by their challenge(s) to his character. He can not get away with looking them in the eye and lying to them outright. Cook is afraid of these people. He is the one that is angry because he knows he is not in complete control and therefore he will not meet face to face.

    We have as recently as a week ago emailed the church and asked to meet with the leadership regarding these issues. The meeting was once again refused.

    The invitation stands, however, don’t expect that Cook or his people will set the terms and the conditions of that meeting. We gave them our home number. They can use it anytime.

  40. SG says:

    A couple of weeks ago on a public access channel in our area, Cook was heard talking about how he has been through so much the last fews years. He generalized these statements to make the viewer assume something out of his control is going on in his life. Like an outward attack and not a self inflicted problem caused by personal misconduct. He looked wearied as he tried to play the victim

    Our observation or opinion of this is: I will use an analogy relatable to a lot people.

    Cook appeared to be showing the same kind of stress factors related to someone being held over for trial. An accused person who can not afford bail will sit in a county facility awaiting trial and sentencing. During this time, he/she is instructed by a DEFENSE attorney to keep their mouths shut. In the meantime the PROSECUTING attorney is preparing the case and gathering the evidence for a readiness hearing and/or a preliminary hearing. If enough evidence is presented, the case will be held over for trial. A person can sit in county lock up for months even years waiting on the public hearing to take place. This occurs because they have given up their right to a speedy trial and therefore forcing the hand of the prosecuting attorney/district attorney. We have the right to a speedy trial, but if you are guilty, most people want to wait for discovery in order to prepare a defense. Eventually, that public hearing is going to take place. And if the accused is found guilty, he/she will be sentenced for their misconduct. This process can be lengthy and very costly to both the state and the defendant. But in the end, the truth prevails and the public at large is served.

    In order to prevent a public trial and expense of a public trial, plea bargains are made. If the accused confesses his/her crimes a lighter sentence is usually imposed. However, if a GUILTY person insist on a public trial, the sentence is usually more severe. (Unless of course you live in Hollywood or something. )

    Whoever counsels ministers of God from the perspective of a DEFENSE attorney only is doing those people a disservice. Especially when you consider the risk. A responsible counselor will not advise a cover up because eventually the truth is going to catch up with you. Hello OJ and the Vegas debacle. Your sin will find you out.

    Innocent blood cries out for justice in the land. Whatever dry bones (representing the Spirit of God) and burnt stones (Cleansing) that will arise will do so to reproduce Jesus Christ who is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. It will not do so to validate a CrOOK amoungst us.

    Still getting to the bottom of it…………..

  41. OM says:

    Hey…I heard that BC loved D J and still does and he misses him dearly. The way it went down may be the issue…I’m not sure…but I am sure he loves him.
    VL didn’t leave because of the “baby”…I am sure of that also…he left first on his own for his own issues. A few of the Elders meet with V for months… WHEN …V would show up and supposedley…said by more than one… who was there at that time… he was not dealing with his wife …at THAT time…he was dealing with several personal issues…I am being nice here…to my understanding the whole marriage was pretty rocky from the get go. When it blew up between them… I understand it was because VL had not been coming home at least a couple nights a week…this was early on. By the way I don’t go to or belong to AFC. But have been around simply because of who I was with and heard these conversation. It is allot to the situation. The pastor may have been prideful and ashamed it was happening… in his upperline leadership and made some bad decisions …on how he handled everything… but ( be nice to me I am just talking ..ok…I am not a bc fan either ) MY honest belief is that he is not guilty as charged by you…there is ALLOT to the story we wont ever know…and later by admission of CL in a room filled with Elders, deacons and office staff…and that day she confesed and made mention of who and when that was…but by your comments I see you had a different possibility in mind… ( to the best of my limited knowledge )…Anyway…Pastor ask what THEY wanted to do about it and THEY CHOSE to cover her…they all got up and surrounded her and rebuked and exorted and loved her. I heard it was sincerly a touching moment…. Also… that __ and __ were also the first ones to get up and lead the forgiveness and release. Dont get mad at me though …I am just cybering this blog…

    Lastly..does not scr. teach somewhere in the Epistles…that somethings are brought to judgement by God now and others when they stand before him. MAYBE it was set up skillfully by the enemy and Many were weaved into a strategem of the enemy. Not to by pass personal responsiblity.
    I pray God turns the hearts of all involved… even us…and gets glory by all involved. He can do it…and He is faithful over what is His…vengence and mercy are never friends. My pastor use to say…start interceeding and bless them and God will have His way… and my heart would be kept tender before the Lord.

    Blessing!

  42. DB says:

    I know a little bit about BC marriage.

    First off I don’t belong to this church or any church for that matter but my job did intersect with this story.

    BC and TC were having trouble for years they had a great working relationship and when TC had a nervous breakdown during the building program because the contractor was stealing and doing faulty work and I understand verberly abusing TC, in which BC did defend. Tensions were high,TC, she cracked for real under the pressure. After that TC had made up her mind. I do agree BC made some decisions under tremendous stress. TC did not leave because of adultry. I repeat she did not leave because BC was doing or had done anyone.

    TC has personally told many people this and wrote in print as well. But she often says “she is nice to the nice but mean to the mean” Many have also found this out. I heard that they had not had sex in years and that he raised the daughter and she was bubbly in public but detatched at home. She nagged him and demeaned like crazy in our meetings. By the way my source is TC herself all of this out of her mouth. She is very guarded and overtime talked often after we had done business. She even told me she never helped around the house or hadent kissed him in years because she doen’t won’t too. Hell, I would have left her first, if I was him.

    I don’t know much about your faith and belief but BC is a broken…kind man. For that matter BC was a class A guy and IF he leaves I will be the first to offer him a job. And she was for the most part a pleasure to work with.

    You said the bible teaches that the only reason for a divorce is adultry. If that is the case with you, then I can tell you for sure that “THAT” is what they are guilty of doing. Thay did not divorce because of BC proported scandal. They divorced because she said “I am leaving, I love you but not like this , I know you may not understand but this is what I am doing”. They went to secular councel and christian for years. But she told me she would not co-operate, because she wanted another life. It is unfortunate how issues crossed and things blew up so huge.
    She even told me some crazy person sent a letter saying she got someone to have a male child for her, this was some person who had left the church. Many christians I have found are self rightous crazies who long for attention under deep anger issues. Yea yea I know I am rambling on while I am posting on a christian blog.

    So let me make a controversial point!

    Here is how dumb I think you christians are;
    When you thought the church was a “move of God”; all of this was happening. You blame it on BC, VL AND CL but all of the crap was going on during that time. You know what the difference is? You werent broadcasting your percieved offence.! Along with whoever else is . He didn’t destroy the church you and others like you did in my mind. They have handled ALL the s__t much better than most people. You guys crack me up how you “expose” your stuff to the world. If you are the ones who REALLY care I would hate to meet the others. I don’t know you church people but you are mean and I would not talk to you either. Just because you come across like you were sent to be God. That is a huge reason I don’t go to church. Mean people suck.
    They don’t talk about it because they are trying to get back up and put there lives together. You still tear down. Why don’t you focus on converting people like me instead. ha ha

    I will check back another day.

    Good luck

  43. SG says:

    You have claimed that you ‘”both” are not either past and/or present members of AFC. We were actually there. Eye witnessing the unfolding of these issues. You can not and have not reconciled these issues with third party denials.

    There is only one way to settle this matter. Take a DNA test and a lie detector test to prove no adultery and no child outside of the marriage(s).

    It is too much of coincidence that both marriages failed at the same time.

    There are several other confirmations by other people who actually went to AFC of an extra marital affair between BC and CL.

    This is no vendetta against anyone. However, the truth is still the goal. I know that might be “crazy” to some folks, but to others it is the only way to live free from bondage.

    Is DB Diana Beggs and is OM Olen McCardell? If so, you both have misled the blog about your connection to this situation. Did you get a phone call asking you to come on here in an attempt to offset the allegations? In all the above ramblings of half way denials, no absolute denial is made about adultery in these two marriages involving one spouse from each marriage. Why, because you don’t know anything other than what you have been told to believe and therefore speak. Not mad at you either, just cybering the blog.

    In regards to the “break down.” One question. Could the break down have had anything to do with the pressure of keeping up the “act” for so long?

    Again, we invite BC, CL, TC and VL to sit down face to face and discuss this matter. You’ve got my phone number and my email address.

    We look forward to hearing from you soon.

    Warmest Regards.

  44. SG says:

    Regarding Teri Cook.

    It is astonishing how you are throwing Teri Cook under the bus to alleviate the pressure from BC. Afer years of observing Mrs. Cook personally, this is my opinion of this situation as it relates to her and her marriage.

    I knew her and honestly, she brought a lot of this on herself.

    However, I do believe she was a victim to much emotional abuse and manipulation by her husband. Teri was so insecure because no matter what she did and how she looked she could never please this man. And believe me I know she tried. Unfortunately she did not ever get the unconditional love from him that she craved. It was always about what she could do for him, not about who she was.

    In one woman’s meeting at AFC, Teri Cook with much uncontrolled emotions told the woman of AFC that if we did not look like Barbie for our husbands that someone would be Barbie for our husbands.

    What kind of statement do you think that is? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out what was going on behind closed doors with this woman. She craved attention and if she had to get it from our husbands she was not beneath doing so. I do not believe she meant her flirtations seriously because I believe she loved God and would not cross that line. However, she wanted attention and she knew exactly how to flaunt herself and her sexuality in mixed company without “crossing that line.” This observation is from first hand experience.

    My own husband refused to act as her personal usher because of the inappropriate way that she behaved with other men.

    This wife was unloved, unprotected, and uncovered. Now she is being put to blame for all of this. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Obviously, these people had no business pastoring a church then or now. We bless them to open a business that would better suit their abilities and level of character. The house of God is no place to play church.

    Love and Blessings to the People of God.

  45. DB says:

    You should get a life…really. I have nothing to gain and nothing to loose. Everything I said was seen first hand and heard first hand as I have stated. My contact was with BC and TC was business only. My observation was not siding with one or either it was what I observed, over a 2 year period as a vendor.
    Don’t accuse me of being called by any body to write here, your are a little scary. Again, I think they are not answering because they are hurt by you and others like you. They owe you nothing regardless of what you say. From working with both of them I can tell you BC was loving , kind and patient. That was my experience. I’m sorry my experience doesn’t fit your story.
    But it is my my observation. If I have one different from you, many others outside your circle of vampires have there “facts” also. My experience was different they had no problem answering many who enquired even meeting with them together. I don’t know a whole lot about the bible but I think you may be a pharisee. So they don’t wont to meet with you and if they were to ask me I would tell them not to talk to you, because if you are not healing you are destroying. He is healing many regardless of your view. Your not, you are tearing up. They aren’t playing church. Both of them took church very seriously in my experience. Even if there was some type of trouble allong the way. I will count my time with them as a huge benefit to my life in many ways.
    Listen I don’t have a dog in the fight here. So thank you for listening.

    Love and Blessings to the whole world in which your savior died.

    May the Cs live on and prosper!

  46. SG says:

    You are not in direct knowledge of what went on in the church as a member and so your experience is limited to what you were told about the situation.

    Your temporary business association with the Cooks is a complete and seperate issue than our experience as people who attended the church from 1999-2004. You are entitled to your observations, but they do not offset or reconcile the situation at hand. We are nowhere near the black yet….still operating in the red.

    Therefore, you can only give testimony from the view point of an outsider whose life was not negatively affected by years of duplicity from these pastors.

    May all unrighteousness be cleansed from the Church.

    You were paid money to provide a service and they needed “work” done their way. A professional relationship can not be compared to a relationship between a pastor over a congregation. This is apples and oranges.

    Other people have testified that their experience included many hurts and disappointments. Some hurts were personal and others were inflicted upon them by watching people they love turn away from God. This may not be of considerable importance to someone who is profiting financially in the midst of all this ungodliness, however, to the Church and to God this is extremely important. It is also important to those who believe that Godliness in the pulpit is a requirement. This may not be a requirement in your field of work but the level of expectation for ministers is high according to scripture.

    Your name calling and outright false characterizations is expected from someone who is not confident in their position. You are resorting to sticks and stones my friend. Very low level for a professional person as you claim to be.

    If they owe me nothing and you weren’t called to post here, how did you come upon this blog and others like it? They must feel they owe somekind of explanation to try to offset these allegations. However, we will only except the truth. i’m sorry, but these lame excuses are not being accepted as truth. You might be accepting of it because you are so disconnected from this situation that it doesn’t really matter to you one way or the other.

    For us, the truth matters because the church matters.

    If Cook is so hurt by what is being said about him by several people, than he should speak to us directly about that. We’ll be happy to comfort him with a first hand perspective of our motives. He won’t have to assume anything anymore about why we are doing what we are doing.

  47. SG says:

    Although I don’t agree with throwing Mrs. Cook under the bus for this situation, I can plainly understand why she would not publically admit an affair as the grounds for a divorce. In California alimony and child support are awarded in divorces. If BC’s primary source of income is AFC, then she will have plenty of reason to not want to see the church fail. Of course we don’t know this for sure at this point, but her silence may have everything to do with the custody arrangement of the daughter. Mrs. Cook loves her little girl and would do whatever it took to gain primary custody of her daughter to protect the child from experiencing some of the same kind of disappointments that she has experienced in her 12 year marriage. Again, this is only speculation but logical in its premise. As a woman I would chose my child’s best interest over my own dignity. We may learn more after the child turns 18.

    Religious people hate logic and they hate people who can think for themselves.

  48. OM says:

    Here…here..DB that is well put except for your lack of bible knowledge. Which noted… you are not claiming to have. I also must state that no body called me…that is so crazy.
    You must understand that you SG… as you have admitted… are moving stricky by supposition mixed with a few angry slanders.
    I don’t know about your time there… but through a former leader your husband cursed out VL and others and that you have always been a control freak and your sons told the leadership this also…NOW I say this as a point only. I know none of this to be true..but it is someones opinion..everyone they tell this story to now becomes effected by this opinion. Chase them down and explain your view and what you believe…I think you would be angry and mad…period because it seems that is your spirit. So all I am trying to do is make a point. We must be Christ like.
    But for the record…All of my insight into what happened with VL and CL is the truth. I agree with DB this is my opinion based on facts accuring around me at the time. It did happen just like I said… this is not contrived. You however are guessing.

    I know what I said is the truth. I don’t know everything… but what I said… I know.

    DB…thanks for the insight on the Cs marriage…I had heard and experienced the same. I guess many would be to disappointed to hear the truth and would STILL believe what they won’t regardless. Because they have invested so much time and energy on there conspiracy theory.
    This is why I believe they aren’t answering you. Because it is my understanding BC met with many for awhile that acted sincere… but afterward mutated and just kept talking. That they were deeply hurt by this and stopped meeting with mean and angry people. To use a little of DBs words.

    Maybe you should do something that would suit your abilities and character also. I don’t think you are displaying much christian character either. Adultery and slander both listed together… will not inherit the kingdom.

    Also SG you were very selective about what you answered and what you didn’t. Your tones are aggressive and I would guess knowing many like you…would not have anything to do if you didn’t do this…or it would just be with someone else. Maybe you should try fasting malice for a while and go to your next level.

    I desire to see everyone restored and blessed. If God has to move them on one day or grows the ministry up again “what is that to you” to quote Jesus to Peter speaking of John. God’s field…God’s work…God’s people…whatever happend to faith.

    I wanna hear from JK again…are you out there…whoever and where ever you are…you kind of stroked the flames here. What do you have to say?

  49. SG says:

    If this is your bottom line, you are overstating it.

    The numbers just don’t add up.

  50. SG says:

    If indeed anyone at AFC felt that I was as you say a control freak, they never mentioned it before. People will say anything to offset the challenges being posed to them.

    What you and DB are doing is trying to take the focus off of BC and the allegation and discredit my credibility to advance a deception. Nice try but it will not work.

    From what you just posted, I am not the only person who has not accepted the excused as truth. And I won’t be the last.

    Again, a simple DNA test and a lie detector test will reveal the truth. Unless of course that is what you are afraid of.

    Are you saying that this innocent man will not voluntarily submit to these tests in order to clear his name? What will it take, a court order?

    Really, I thought you guys had more ground game than that. Are you ready to tap out? If you are waiting on me to tap out, take the tests. If this clears up the descepancies, I’ll be the first to concede. Until then, you can call in all your buddies and engage all of your moves, but nothing will defeat the spirit of truth.

  51. SG says:

    What would you like me to answer specifically?

  52. SG says:

    Why do you guys hate woman so badly? You malign Mrs. Cook and then you try to abuse me in the same way. Wow, real touch guys aren’t you?

    Hello guys…..would you like to get off the blog and meet in a neutral place to discuss these issues?

    Let me know, we can meet at the Denny’s on El Camino Real and Vista Way. I’ll buy the coffee and pie. Just say when.

  53. SG says:

    Seriously guys, are you trying to offset BC’s scandal with calling me a control freak when you guys are the ones that are mad because you can’t control this situation.

    If that is the worst you can say about me and my family, you are in way over your heads.

    My sons and my husband call me blessed. They don’t blame me for their failures like you all are doing with Mrs. Cook. The oldest trick in the book, “It’s the woman you gave me.” as you hide from God.

    Weak, weak, weak.

  54. SG says:

    Are you coming over your chair yet?

  55. SG says:

    BTW, my husbands and sons are not failures, they are great men of God.

  56. DB says:

    I think I believe in demons now. You are funky SG. You know everything don’t you.

    I never threw TC under the bus. Nor did I say anything about her not loving her daughter…although I do know she does not have or won’t to have at this point… primary custody.
    On another subject BC to my knowledge does have other forms of income, Stocks, property and his book is everywhere and doing well…I understand…from a outside source. His father is a very weathly business man.
    You can’t disqualify me from my perspective just because I am not in the church. I hear what you are saying about the ministry but what I said IS what happened. You try to disqualify me because my perspective is not like yours. I know your type your letters are manipulaive and mean. Remember karma sweety.
    Called to blog here..oh my God…you are delusional. Are you on meds…you need to take your daily dosage or something. How freaky.
    Oh… you got me… stop please…ha ha ha . I’m not your bitch…don’t talk to me like that…I’m not a chiristian and I don’t believe you are either. Pharsee, scribes and scholars…that was a religious person…right…bible girl. You have rejected the weighter matters…like love and mercy.
    Ouch…my brain hurts…I had to find a bible for that one…see maybe God is using this to convert me…ha ha…see I am called here.

  57. SG says:

    Correction: BTW, my husband and my sons are not failures. They are all great men of God.

  58. SG says:

    What? You’re not my what?? Wow, I was wondering how long it would take for the ghetto to come out. AFC is quite familiar with this arena.

    I don’t have to disqualify you. You are doing that all by yourself. The more you talk the more we find out about your character.

    Why are you so threatened by people who can think for themselves. Some of us have an education and can anaylize weighty matters without the assistance of someone speaking in their ear telling them what to say.

  59. SG says:

    Okay, this is incredibly boring. Kind of like taking candy from a baby. Seriously, you are not qualified in this arena. Your weapons are dull and inadequate to take on anyone at this level.

    Sweety??? I thought you said I was mean?

    Years and years of jealousy coming out finally. Are you done yet?

  60. DB says:

    Never my intent to distract the issues merly to add what my personal comments are. The ONLY reason I took a few shots is because your letters are so angry and bitter sounding. I like women and believe in equal rights. More than your bible does…so you should submit and let the men speak…haha. Just kidding SG. I can assure you my temper isn’t like yours…so I won’t be coming over my chair or meeting with you…why would I abuse myself…I can go to the zoo…whenever I desire…I’m cracking myself up. I never said your husband and sons were failures. Off of me b___h.
    It is friday night I am out of here…I do have a life outside of hunting people down with my double barrel gospel gun. So you keep filling your soul with this crazy mind you have and you may end up with demons.

  61. SG says:

    “His father is a wealthy business man.” Sounds like somebody missed their calling. Maybe the family business would be a better fit. Cook is definitely a good salesman.

  62. DB says:

    No one is speaking with me or to me. What is that all about…you can’t take someone who has a brain and speaks for himself. ( oh yea you already used that for you, but when you did it was ok..)
    Once again the real issues I addressed are avoided and your sacasm mask your answers. Your intimidation tactics are well devoleped, your words also reveal much about you that you think is covered.
    Not ghetto my dear sweet mean man hater. Just doing what you do. You can dish it out but can’t seem to take it.

    I to will drop from this blog for now. You are wasting space and time. Please get a life, get some help there is still hope. Hey are you coming out of your chair yet? I learned this from you…you are a good teacher…blind leading the blind. ( I like this bible thing )

  63. SG says:

    No, your presumptions are angry and bitter.

    I am neither of those things. However, you are the one who is unable to meet face to face and discuss these issues in a civilized manner. I am in complete control of my emotions, that is why I am not threatened by meeting in a public place. Only angry people blog only and not except a public, in person ,real life conversation.

    More name calling. Wow, very disappointing.

    Have a nice night. Be careful out there the roads are really bad because it is pouring buckets out there.

    In My Name, I will cast out demons!! Be set free in Jesus’ Name.

  64. SG says:

    What intimidation tactics? What are you afraid of? You sound a little paranoid. Are you okay?

    I am completely and totally covered from the top of my head to the souls of my feet.

    No one is avoiding your inquiries. You haven’t asked me anything. All you’ve done is name call and make silly statements revealing a considerable lack of understanding about what the real issues are.

    I am not running away or hiding. Anytime you want to address your concerns, I will be happy to take that meeting.

    I’m not being sarcastic. What, you don’t have a sense a humor? Angry people usually don’t. Lighten up, you’ll feel better about life and the issues that surround living it.

    Don’t worry about the blind leading the blind. I’m not following you anywhere. You just don’t have the influence and level of leadership to keep someone like me under your control. I think you are finally getting that aren’t you. Is that why you think I’m mean? If I were you, I would concede too.

  65. OM says:

    WOW…you guys should stop.
    On another note… I called someone on staff in the office at FPC and they did say also that BC and RH have not communicated in years. They didn’t know of any schisms ( and they would if there was )They said RH had been pulling away from people for awhile and considered BC a threat to his lifestyle. Said BC wasen’t liberal enough for him. BC would have absolutly nothing to do with RHs playing.

    As for PW and her ministry. BC did not have a close relationship with her…just had her preach and she was in and out.

    Hey…just passing info. Be blessed!

  66. SG says:

    No, not a man hater either. I love, adore, admire, respect, cherish, appreciate, and serve my husband daily with great devotion and loyalty. Not because I have to, but because I gladly submit to his loving, courageous, intelligent, affectionate, strong, and Godly character. He is a true man of God.

    Woe to any one who would come between our union in God.

    We both greet you and send abundant blessings to you and yours.

  67. DB says:

    Not you following me…you leading others and them following you.
    Come on…I wouldn’t let you work for me. I don’t think you would work to well with others. Concede…your so funny…once again your control preceeds you. Your last blogs were very revealing…thank you…by the way! Your trouble walking…a chaotic mess.
    I feel very concerned and sorry for you. Good night sweety. The Cs should be glad you don’t go the church anymore. Do you even go to church?

  68. SG says:

    You called FPC? Who did you speak to? I’d like to confirm this conversation if I may.

    You expect us to believe that the staff at FPC would voluntarily say things that discredit RH and lift up BC?

    Sorry, I will have to speak to that person and verify that information for myself.

    You spoke to someone on staff at 11:00pm Texas time on a Friday night? Without a personal verification of this conversation, it is only a “comment” placed a blog to try to make a case to satisfy a personal agenda.

    No substance.

    AFC uses the same quote as WWII, “The perfect church for people who are not.” Are they just borrowing a phrase or plagerizing an idea? Just asking. Terri Cook traveled to WWIC on occassion to be mentored under Paula White in regards to outreach. There was more than just an in and out relationship. Upon her return from one of those trips, I asked Terri how things went. She told me generally that she learned a lot and that she had thought about me during the trip and wished I was with her. This was an actual conversation.

    Wow, you guys will say anything. Complete and total witchcraft.

  69. SG says:

    I thought you had a life outside the blog. I know you can’t help yourself. That is okay, I don’t hold it against you.

    I don’t need to work for you. I have a very well paying job and the complete respect of everyone I work with. My boss and I ride our motorcycles together on our off time. That is how much we enjoy each other’s company. And no, we don’t even think about or talk about this situation.

    Again, I’m not hiding anything so my blog would be revealing. You’re paranoia is really showing here.

    Because I’m funny, I’m controlling? What??? Seriously, your logic or lack of is extremely hard to follow. Real logic and wisdom makes sence to even the most simple minded person.

    I couldn’t work for you, I’m smarter than you are. You’d be afraid that I would take your business away from you??? Not true of course, but you seem so threatened by anyone who challenges you.

    Every time you blog all you come back with is name calling and inuendo.

    I’m holding out hope for an inteligent and meaningful dialogue.

    Trouble walking???? I’ve never been in trouble. Outside of an occassional speeding ticket, I’m clean as a whistle.

    Maybe you are calling me a whistle blower??

  70. OM says:

    Calm down. I have a friend who has been on staff, then left then came back on staff. They left during the last exodus. I wasn’t trying to be a expert I was just trying to help. Wow your jumpy. No one is going to speak with you if you keep coming on like a hurricane. I am not lying. I called my friend.

    AFC quote – Many people have borrowed this pharse that have incorprated the ideas. If you ever go… there are thousands of people from all over the world and I don’t think Paula talks persoanlly with anyone. But different from you and DB I do not desire to argue back and forth. I am not promoting a agenda. I think you might be and anyone who differs is blasted and be-railed.

    Good night and be blessed!

  71. SG says:

    Yes, I have a home church that I love dearly. I fully expect that it will prosper in our area and ignite an everlasting Holy Ghost revival that will stand in this territory for generations to come. It will stand up to the spirit of this territory because its leaders have the character needed to successfully overcome the enemies devices. Our leaders love their spouses and put their family’s above ministerial ambitions. Their marriages are not defiled by bitterness and lust stemming from neglect.

    You’ll learn more in the days to come.

  72. SG says:

    I didn’t say I talked to Paula personally. I said I spoke with Teri personally after she returned from a trip to WWIC. She spoke highly of Paula and respected her ministry and her mentorship at that time.

    It is so funny how at one time RH and PW were honored at AFC. What did they turn their backs on AFC when the heat was turned up? Again, just asking a question.

    Hurricane? I am calm. I still want to verify the conversation if you don’t mind.

    I’m not arguing, just responding. Are you really that unskilled in debate. Why is everything characterized as a fight, or as angry with you guys.

    You can’t judge if I’m angry or not. If you met with me in person and I displayed such behavior than your judgement would be correct. Here on this forum you are only speculating.

    Actually, I’m cool as a cucumber. This doesn’t even ruffle my feathers.

    Seriously, why do you take offense to every question? Aren’t you telling the truth?

  73. SG says:

    First you claimed to have spoken to a staff member in order to validate your claim and now that the verocity of your claim is challenged, the “staff member” is not an official RH representative, but a personal friend.

    Okay.

  74. SG says:

    People who know they can’t manipulate the situation with this kind of nonsence will not personally speak to someone like me because they can’t avoid the issue and they know it.

    Sorry Cook, but if you want to talk to me, you’ll have to be honest. We can move forward on that equal footing. I know it is easier for you to think that we hate you and that we are angry at you, but remember this only hurts your self esteem. Why? Because we know how we really feel. Hating you and being angry has nothing to do with our inquiries. You know that deep inside I know you do. Why don’t you just talk to us directly.

    Like I said, a DNA and lie detector test will resolve the dispute.

    Talking puppets are only antagonizing the situation.

    We are still in the red people.

  75. SG says:

    Barry, you know you can trust me. You’ve said it yourself to other people. You know that I am a woman of my word.

    Take the test and if guilty confess publically and allow the people to make the choice for themselves instead of subjecting them to so much cunning and crafty manipulation. The spirit of God would not lead you down such a self destructive path. You’ve surrounded yourself with people too afraid of you to challenge the indescrepancies in this situation. I’m left with the feeling that you don’t really plan on being around much longer. When you do leave, I truly hope that you will be restored fully to the man God intended for you to be. We love you Barry.

    Please I implore you in Christs’ stead confess your faults and be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

  76. SG says:

    No one is blasting or berailing anyone. You guys have used profanity, vicious name calling, and out right misleading comments to promote your so called non agenda. You claim no agenda however you have, howbeit unsuccessfully, attempted to discredit me with futal attempts to offset my comments. If you don’t have an agenda, why have you spent considerable time in your efforts? Are you just bored? C’mon, can’t you see what you are being led into? I’m sorry this is happening to you. You shouldn’t let someone else drag you down with them. Please for your family’s sake, don’t bring strife into your home. This is not your battle. You’re being used.

    It seems to me that you are mad or sad because you can’t get me to respond in anger or because you have failed in your attempt to deceive me about what I know from my own experience, my own observations and what I’ve been told by other former members of AFC.

    I, however, am not mad at your comments, but I do disagree.

  77. OM says:

    A personal friend who is a former staff member.

    I don’t think BC would read all this..do you?

    I’m not lying and I didn’t get on this for all this…I’m out! I thought I would just give my view and you give yours and we move on…so I am moving on now…I’m sure you think I am this or that…please hold that thought…thank you!

    I’m not mad at anybody and wish you well on your journey.

    Happy Holidays!

  78. SG says:

    Now it is a former staff member. This is not how you characterized your comment initially. You attempted to make this conversation sound formal and authoritative. After just a little bitty bit of scrutiny, your whole story has changed. Little white lies are lies too. But I don’t hold it against you.

    What I think is not in your relm of reasoning. Why do I make such a bold statement. Because the bigger picture for me can not be distored with ill informed opinions. You have no idea how much your comments validate so many of the things that are being discussed here. The considerable amount of effort alone put into these ridiculous rebutals, scream “WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE.” I’m sorry you didn’t understand that from the onset.

    I am not going to apologize for who I am. I’m not as insecure as some may have thought. If you were under that impression, you were misled.

    Thank you for your blessing in our journey. I accept it in Jesus’ Name.

    Blessings to you and yours as well.

    Seriously, I am not offended and I hope that you guys are not offended either. If you are, please forgive me.

  79. OM says:

    Stop it SG it’s not like that…I simply saw the blog and told what I knew.

    When I called them they informed me of there departure from the ministry in which I then learned there current status and then posted it.

    I don’t know why I came back to this site. You are so negitive. You can’t be of God.. maybe you are the one decieved. Now that’s what I believe.

    It never crossed MY mind if your insecure or not. Your right you are in another rhelm. woho

    Ok…what ever considerable effort …no …just friday night blogging. That is why I say your right we are in different places.

    This time for real.

    Your welcome for the blessing and thank you for yours.

  80. SG says:

    I’m sorry brother, I can’t ignore blatant misrepresentations.

    You are coming back to hear the truth. You’ve come to the conclusion that there is more to this than what you thought and you are looking for answers. Until you ready to accept the fact that those answers are not necessarily agree with your agenda, your self imposed confusion will continue. Keep at it, you’ll get it soon enough.

    If you look at your own comments toward me, they are all negative. It seems that your mission is to discredit me in order to defend gross misconduct in the House of God. I think it is your loyalties that are misplaced. We are to serve and uplift God not those whose fruit bears witness of divorce, emotional breakdowns, severed relationships and great scandal.

    I am a child of God. Blood bought and sealed with the Holy Ghost. Nobody can seperate me from that fact.

    Ollen and Diana I believe you are children of God too. Blessings to you both.

  81. SG says:

    If the concerned people of North County want to meet, please email me at guinnfamily@cox.net

  82. Rocky W. Hampton says:

    Obviously, Paula White did not choose to bear her cross up to Calvary. She chose instead to “choose the path of least resistance”. And then she has the unmitigated gall to use God as her “skapegoat” and excuse for divorce. Can someone please lead me to Scripture text (other that marital unfaithfulness) that would support reasoning for this divorce. As a Christian, I have never been a big fan of Paula White, in fact, I believe she is just a snake-oil salesman. But as a realist, I recognize the inpact and following that Paula White has on the banner of Christianity. I am certain grateful that Jesus said that “THE GATES OF HELL” would not prevail against the Church. But Paula White and her Faux Christianity can sure put some sizable “chinks in the armor”. I personally believe that Paula and Randy White should both step down from public ministry so as not to cause the church any more harm. Paula should have prayed as Jesus did, “Lord, if you are willing, allow this cup to pass from me, Nevertheless, not my will, but Yours be done”. Paula, like Jesus, may not have received the most expedient path, but the outcome would have paid much greater divedends. I am experiencing some “righteous indignation” in this situation right now and I attend to contact TBN and let them know my thoughts by their continuing to allow Paula White programming to continue on their network.

    In His Service,

    Rocky W. Hampton

  83. txmom21g1b says:

    anyone know where TC is post divorce?

  84. DB says:

    SG, Diana here. My husband stumbled across this blog and was reading it to me today and we reached the point where you wrongly named me on November 30, 2007. I’m out of there girly and have been out for 2 years. Glad to hear Victor is doing well. Sure do miss you. I’m in Arizona now, married, and loving life. You go girl and keep fighting for the truth

    To all of you defending AFC, all for which SG speaks is true, been there, did that, and now as far away from the wrath that will come down so as to not have my eyebrows singed from the fire.

    Later

  85. SG says:

    Hi DB,

    Diana, it sure was good to hear from you and it is even better knowing that you are NOT involved with the ongoing deception at AFC.

    We hope to see you soon.

    Blessings to you and yours,
    SG

  86. RH says:

    Wow… I’m currently a member of AFC…and I have been through all the mud slinging and gossip, rumors and opinions, trash talking, backstabbers, hurt, pain, and finally restoration.

    I would think with all this energy that we could have found a cure for AIDS by now, or fed the country of Africa…with all this time and energy, it could have happened.

    Hurt people. That’s what I see. And I would mention that hurt people hurt others when they haven’t reached a place of forgiveness and restoration.

    Everyone has their own feelings, and those aren’t right or wrong. It is what it is. It just seems that with all the things going on in the world that really should have such greater importance, we connect and dwell on our feelings. The world is suffering and we are too consumed with what happened to us.

    I know a lot of people who have left, and I’m not mad at anyone. Everyone has their own reasons and I can’t judge them. I am ok with people feeling like I am still in the fire and telling me I should leave. Really, it doesn’t bother me.

    My choice for staying are just that, my own choice. We all made a choice to stay or leave and I defend no one except Jesus and his continued blessings. I feel bad for all the experiences that many of you have had, but I can gaurantee that at some point in life whether its church or the world, we will all experience pain. My thought is that we should look to God in all circumstances to give us healing.

    Clearly if people are still on here trying to get DNA of illigitimate children, the healing process has not ended.

    If this is a morality issue, then use it to your advantage and join a cause, do something about it. I don’t see how going over old wounds are going to get anyone anywhere. If you feel the church is going down hill, then start your own. The kingdom is ready.

    I have been through more challenges, heartaches, and survivor of life in more ways than I care to share here. None of that includes AFC, what I can tell you is that once you have let the enemy in and given it a window of opportunity to torment you with anger, you have set yourself up. Forgiving someone and then writing from an emotion opposite of that is not forgiveness.

    When I go to heaven and God asks me what did I do about the injustices I witnessed, I want to tell Him that I did something about it, I started an organization, I went to the streets and helped the poor, I joined the Red Cross, I donated my time. Sitting around writing is doing nothing but dwelling on things. Use your time and energy and minister to your kids, get out and evanglize the lost, find someone to bless, call someone who needs you, pray and intercede for the churches in the nation.

    I just wonder if all this energy could be used to help more than one church, more than a handful of people.

  87. SG says:

    All of “that” is nothing more than presumption and opinion and a poor justification for standing by and doing nothing about gross ministerial misconduct in the House of God. Your piety is self righteous and has little to do with anyone other than yourself. It helps no one yet it allows sin to remain in the pulpit. Oh, BTW, it isn’t just us lowly bloggers out there writing about the treachery in the church. Go to Charisma Magazine’s websit and read the article flat our denoucing the adultery and divorce that is running rampart in the church. And guess what? They are naming names.

    Boy, you AFC folks need to lay off the kool-aide. Your Jim Jones look alike pastor is corrupting your soul.

    We are not hurt. We are way passed hurt here RH. Your weak analysis portrays a picture of a victim. We are not victims and we are more than survivors. We are overcomers and we will see to it that this deception in the community is made as public as necessary to keep more families from being destroyed by this adulterous influence.

    RH, I want to meet with you. Contact me at guinnfamily@cox.net. We have some things to confront face to face. Or can you even look me in the eye and say that nonsense? If not, than your words are nothing more than self absorbed idealogy built upon deception and down right idolatary. You are on the record for supporting this absolute fraud of a church and pastor. No one is being helped by this organization. More divorces, drug addiction, apostacy and much more has come as result of Cook’s so called anointing than any “good.” The heathen do more to help the poor and hungry than all of AFC’s exploits combined. AFC will always be known to those who really know the truth for tearing apart lives (the body) limb by limb. What good is a head without a body? All you’ve got is a monster blood thirsty to legitimize a life given to corruption and vile devastation.

    Publically, I stand by my position without apology. And I’m willing to do it face to face if needed. Are you?

  88. SG says:

    Or are you just playing “Switzerland?” No agenda, agenda, right?

  89. SG says:

    http://www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones/

    At least this guy has the guts to speak the truth. He is calling it like it is. This is real refreshment compared to the liberal, politically correct rhetoric of some sorely deceived followes who try to convince sane people that down is up and wrong is right. Man, what a bunch of hog wash!! I guess I can’t expect much from more from the SOCAL crowd. They’ve finally given over to the spirit of divination in the territory. They’ve joined ranks with the Self Realization and Rosicrusion crowd. Like they say, “If you can’t beat’em join’em.”

  90. RH says:

    Talk about angry.

    Your words are like venom, I could feel your spirit across my computer screen. You haven’t been to the church in a while so how would you know the way things are? Because you talk to a few wolves who think they know what is going on? I’ve had plenty of conversations on all sides of the spectrum. From people who have left, to those you accuse and those that I feel need some deliverance. None of this changes the fact that the church still needs to be brought to submission to the authority of God. And no matter what it takes I do not give up on the mandate that God has called for all churches. Pick a preacher, anyone in church leadership, and I almost guarantee they aren’t perfect and have made huge mistakes in ministry. Some confirmed and some flat out blatant lies.

    I don’t have an agenda. It just seems so sad to me that there are people who write with this much anger and are doing nothing to help others. Unless you call slander helping. You come off as this nice good loving Christian but the moment someone calls you out you become vicious and rude and proclaim that people have been braiwashed and have some secret agenda.

    I don’t live in your world and I am so thankful for that. Meeting you face to face would accomplish nothing. I’m all about confrontation but you are not the person and this is not your season. I would suggest giving your burden to someone who can handle it and start living your life free. AFC is no longer your church, we get it. Over and over again we get that you need DNA for proof and that we are all supporting a Pastor that you feel is in sin. We get it. You can call me whatever you want because I support the church, you don’t know me, my life or anything about it because I am not here slandering anyone, just expressing how we could be using our talent to do other things.

    I practice what I preach. I do other things than sit here all day wondering how I can convince someone that I am right. Fighting to be right, isn’t getting you anywhere and you can claim you are holier than thou because we are all wrong and you are right but that just makes you appear to be overly religious.

    You are a classic example of why I don’t like church folk, no forgiveness, no heart. I don’t need to know you, I just read what you write.

  91. SG says:

    No what you feel coming off of your computer isn’t anger! It is absolute truth. Not post modernistic mummble jumble. You are free to compromise if it allows you to remain where you are at….maybe you enjoy knowing that your pastor doesn’t really have the place to correct you in your sin because of his own hypocrisy.

    Mistakes? What? The man didn’t spill a glass of milk. He deliberately took another man’s wife and got her pregnant. Vince Limon was Cook’s right hand man. Cook married Vince and Carolyn and then he turned around and caused their divorce along with his own. You think that is a mistake? No, the mistake is that he continues to deny his duplicity of character and lies to everyone who confronts him about his adultery and illegitimate son that looks just like his daughter.

    Sounds like you don’t like church folk who get into your business or into your pastor’s business.

    This is not slander. Look the legal definition up for slander. The truth is not slander. My motiviation for publishing the truth is to keep the people of North County from being deceived by a wolfster. Any public person who makes his living off of public donations has an obligation to the public to be trustworthy. This man’s own wife divorced him because of his betrayal. Why the heck would anyone want to support someone financially who can throw his wife to the curb while he lies in bed with another’s man’s wife so he can fulfill the lust of his flesh? And as long as you are willingly and knowlingly supporting this kind of a person, keep your suggestions to yourself. Honestly, you can’t be trusted either.

    One thing we do agree on is this. Your church and your pastor need to come under the authority of God. If you are suggesting that I need to come under his authority, I reject that notion completely. This man does not walk in authority because he is not submitted to authority. He completely violated the authority of God’s word when he came between a man and his wife. Your pastor has an ego that won’t quit. He must have believed that his position gave him the “authority” to take this woman to bed who was not his own wife. That my friend is a man under the submission and control of the devil….who BTW, God’s word says we have authority over him. So technically, I have authority over Cook’s devil to rebuke it in Jesus’ name. And I do.

    Yeah, yeah, another one who hides behind a computer, but can’t control his/her emotions in public so they refuse a public meeting. You’re a coward. Face it. Just like your pastor.

  92. SG says:

    RH, you have not called me out! What you call “calling someone out” is nothing more than you sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. You posted your comment, I made my rebuttal. Period. If you think that I am intimidated by your words on a blog, get real!

    I’m the one who is doing the calling out and that challenge remains… to your pastor. You shouldn’t bite off more than you can chew and than whine about the fact that you are not making a bit of difference. I completely reject your comments as nothing more than the rhetoric of a very misled individual. This is often the case with people at AFC. They talk a good game on a blog, but when you see them in public, they run for the hills. They can’t even look you in the eye.

    You don’t have the authority, influence, or stamina to call me out on this issue. So go back to saving the world while your corrupt pastor and church continues to loose it’s soul. You do have better things to do right?

  93. RH says:

    I love it. Your right and I am wrong. I will live in a world of corruption, and I will go to hell because of my belief. Happy now? Besides, you post here to the Pastor about how he can trust you…right. I don’t think he does any more from what I understand. And excuse me but AFC is MY church, it is MY business. It isn’t your church any more. New people, new annointings, new deliverances, restoration, no more old spirits and overly religious people trying to run the church with their own agendas.

    As far as everyone at AFC is concerned, no one cares what you post here. A lot of us see you as an angry person who can’t get over the past and learn the forgiveness to move forward. You can judge me all you want, I don’t answer to you. You can tell me the pastor is corrupt, I support an indecent organization…It’s ok. Tell me I sit back and do nothing about it…because you know everything right?

    AFC will continue to restore and save lives, that is just the way it is. No one cares how involved you used to be because you aren’t any more. Take your overly righteous self and find another blog to blast AFC with. After talking to a few people who knew you, none of us really care.

    I’m done here…have fun retaliating against my post to prove your so called justice. Like I said none of us care, there are more important things in life to think about than your anger. It’s all a little narcissistic don’t you think?

    I love Ambassador Family Church and have loved it for the past five years.

    Record it, document it, label me.

  94. RH says:

    And just so there is no confusion about my post…I believe our Pastor is innocent. The law doesn’t say guilty until proven innocent. A bunch of hearsay and everyone seems to know “what happened…”

    I’m more involved than you may think. From what has happened and what I know based on many parties involved, I will always Protect the House and believe in our Apostle. You can believe I’m just some newcomer, but let me tell you, I know a lot more than you think I do.

    Have fun sharing your opinion. And I’ll continue supporting AFC…

    I’d give you my name, but I don’t want my name spoken into the atmosphere with a deathly tongue and a righteous spirit.

    I pray God imparts to you peace and restoration to your soul and that one day you can come to a place where you are overwelmed for the love of people and the church.

    – RH

  95. RH says:

    Also, one last item, VL has a history long before he joined AFC with another church that I know the pastors of. If you think he is innocent and the victim, surely you are mistaken and don’t know much about him.

  96. SG says:

    All of what you say is lies,lies,lies! I reject it all in Jesus name. The challange to your so called pastor remains.

  97. SG says:

    No AFC is not home my church but North County is my community. My family and I would never support any church whose pastor sleeps with a married parishoner and then tells the public that her husband deserved it. Vince Limon served as an associate pastor right up until the time that he found out that his blonde haired blue eyed son wasn’t his. (Vince and Carolyn are hispanic) Many people have testified about the way that Cook attacked Vince AFTER he left. Just like you did above. Cook is a coward. He is not an Apostle. He is not the set man of this territory. God gives his people the very best and Cook is not the best God can do. Cook may be your guru and the guru of the AFC occult, but he is no apostle.

    Everybody at AFC including your pastor cares very much about what I am posting. That is why you guys keep coming back to defend this imposter. You all have something to hide and your desperately trying to cover YOURSELVES because God isn’t having anything to do with protecting this aweful deception. All the manipulating in the world will not keep the truth from being published. The people of North County are concerned about this and many have commented about their concerns.

    What you know about this situation is enough to keep you held accountable. You admittedly support an adulterous man in the pulpit and you will answer to that some day.

    AFC is not restoring or saving anybody. Stop with all the lies and deception. How many divorces? How many suicides? How many incarcerations? How many addictions? How many unwed pregnancies? How many adulterous relationships? How many member in blatant fornication? I can tell you how many, MANY, too many to count.

    I don’t need you tell me a thing about Vince Limon. I knew him for years. No matter what you think about him personally, that does not justify your pastor’s adulterous relationship with Vince’s wife. Man, I can’t believe you people. You are sick!!!!

    All your pastor has to do to prove his innocense is take a DNA test. We already know that Ricky is Cook’s son. Ricky looks exactly like him and Joy.

    Yeah, AFC is full of new spirits alright. Anything holy, righteous, and anointed left a long time ago. All your left with now is doctrines of demons, witchcraft, sorcery, deception, and kaos.

    Two Friday nights ago we witnessed for ourselves the response of AFCs youth toward the church. They were all outside leaning against the walls and sitting on the steps at 7:15pm looking like they wanted to be anywhere but there. Next time, I’m going to tell them that they are not crazy and that the hypocrisy that they see and hear is real and that they should seek fellowship and biblical teaching elsewhere. Matter of fact, after reading all the downright lies you’ve posted, I’m will tell them.

    Oh, Cook trusts me alright. He knows that when I say I’m going to do something I do it. You can take that to the bank. He doesn’t like what I’m doing, but he trusts that I will continue on until his deception is exposed. Trust me, it will be and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it. He will continue to manipulate this situation in response to everything that I say in an attempt to counter it’s affect. His attempts will fail because of the lies he is trying to cover up. His foundation is going to crumble and the entire lot will come sliding down a top of this mega mess that he has made. The man is not able to withstand the truth. Heck, he can’t even live it.

    I reject your witchcraft prayers in Jesus’ name. You have no authority over me to bless or curse.

    I don’t recall asking you for your name. I don’t need it.

    And you’re right I do have a righteous spirit.

  98. RH says:

    Wow… You must be a stalker if you seem to know what that kid looks like now.

    We don’t have a Friday night service.

    Witchcraft…now that is funny, praise God. He still finds humor in this stuff.

    Be blessed.

  99. SG says:

    Normally you do not have a Friday night service, but two weeks ago you did. Don’t you know what goes on in your own church?

    We live down the road from AFC and we drive right by it all the time on our way to church, to the beach, or the mall or whatever. The church is visible from Oceanside Blvd. and El Camino Real. We don’t have to be stalkers just because we are observant.

    I’m already ready blessed and it has nothing to do with AFC or your blessings. We don’t need AFC to be blessed of God.

    Awhile back one of AFC’s long time members who was involved in the worship team and children’s church was later found out to be a child molester. TG molested his own daughter numerous times from the time she was a very small child. TG ended up doing weekends at VDF for over a year. He was seperated from his family and not allowed to have any unsupervised contact with his daugher. TG was not the only one found guilty of incest while attending AFC. The spirit of incest seems to have found a home at AFC. Why?

    Carolyn Limon is a child of God. Her spiritual father BC took her to bed with him and got her pregnant. He is guilty of spiritual incest yet you guys defend such a person. Why? Do you sleep around with your brothers and sisters in Christ? If he did it, you shouldn’t feel quilty about it, right?

    God laughs alright, but not at those who stand for righteousness in a wicked and perverse generation. He laughs at those who mock Him, His Word, and the Holy Spirit. Not because He is entertained, but because He is not mocked.

    Keep saying wow. I know you’re amazed and you will continue to be amazed at what is coming next.

  100. RH says:

    More gossip… You’re a waste of time.

    Have fun convincing everyone we have no blessing. My testimony is much too long to write here, you may think you are the only one blessed in Oceanside. If you only knew the blessings I continue to receive from being at AFC. Yeah we are a cursed church…and those of us receiving the blessings of God are fake.

    No worries, I’m not posting any more.

    Only God can judge me. I know I know, you seem to be very repetitive in your statements about how I am in sorcery, witchcraft, and I will be judged for supporting such a corrupt church. Save the speech.

    Again, only God can judge me.

  101. SG says:

    No, I’m not a waste of time, but it was a waste of your time if you ever thought you would have a bit of influence OVER me. Admit it, that is what you’re really upset about.

    The extent of the deception in the ongoing cover up at AFC is most definitely summed up in one word….witchcraft. The deception is what is repetitive. As long as it is ongoing, this challenge will remain.

    “Yeah we are a cursed church…and those of us receiving the blessings of God are fake.” You said it, not me. The only thing I will add is, “What blessing?”

    Are you blessed to know that families are split up, that children are split between to households, that many teen agers are using drugs and engaging in sexual activity on church property? Are you blessed to know that marriages that were sanctioned by God are destroyed because of gross and perverse ministerial misconduct by AFC leaders? Are you blessed to know that people who gave their lives to the work at AFC are now backslid? Are you blessed to know that your wolfster pastor became a stumbling block to an entire generation of AFC youth? Are you blessed to know that God is not mocked and whatsoever a man soweth that he shall also reap? On that point, my answer is yes.

    Until your pastor publically admits what he has been lying all this time, we will continue to hold his feet to the fire. The truth be known, and it is, your pastor’s pseudo ministry to this community is over.

    “Again, only God can judge me” You say that like you don’t believe he will. Most criminals don’t believe they’ll ever get caught and if they do get caught, they don’t believe they should have to suffer the consequences for their behavior; but in the end they do.

  102. RH says:

    You have managed to judge me, compare me to a criminal and tell me I have no fear of God.

    And you call yourself a woman of God.

    …Above all things love one another…

    You don’t even know me.

  103. SG says:

    What does any of that have to do with being or not being a woman of God. I’m sorry if you got your feelings hurt, but I think I remember telling you something about not biting off more than you can chew. This isn’t about you so quick crying and stop taking everything so personal. Nice try playing the victim.

    Oh, BTW, you don’t have to actually commit a crime to possess criminal mindsets. When people don’t admit wrong doing and then act surprised about the consequences, this usually is an indicator of a criminal mindset at play. Another is when a person thinks that everything is about them. Some call it narsacistic and it is.

    Have a great weekend. I know I’m going to.

    Hey, if you want to come over for dinner, give us a shout. guinnfamily@cox.net

  104. SG says:

    Hey, RH, do you need a Strongs concordance to quote your scripture properly? Here let me help you out.

    Jn 15:17, “These things I command you that ye love one another.”

    Rev. 2:2-7,

    “I know all the things you do. I’ve seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don’t tolerate evil people. You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles, but are not. You have discovered that they are liars. You have patiently suffered for me without quitting. But I have this complaint against you. You don’t love me or each other as you did at first! Look how far you have fallen from your first love! Turn back to me again and work as you did at first. If you don’t, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches. But there is this about you that is good; you hate the deeds of the imortal Nicolaitans, just as I do. Anyone who is willing to hear should listen to the Spirit and understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Everyone who is victorious will eat from the tree of life in the paradise of God.”

  105. SG says:

    In case you were not aware, the Nicolaitans were known for their sexualy promiscuity. The gnostic doctrine taught that the human body was evil therefore it did not matter what a person did with it. God clearly expects us to “hate” this kind of behavior. It should not be tolerated in the church. People who are guilty of sexual immorality are to repent. When they do not, the church has no obligation to continue to submit to this person’s influence. We have love for the people, but we do not tolerate blatant sin in the house of God.

    This is not about who we are against. This is about what we stand for….WE ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE CHURCH AND ALL THAT IT IS MEANT TO BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    WE ARE PASSIONATELY OPPOSED TO THOSE WHO ABUSE THE CHURCH AND LEAD GOD’S PEOPLE ASTRAY.

    THIS PURSUIT WILL NEVER DIE!!

  106. RH says:

    Here is a thought, so what would you do if there was a DNA test and you found out you were wrong?

    If you are going to be passionate about something, at lease be humble enough to accept the fact that there could be another side to everything. Then what?

    And by the way, I take none of this personal. I’ve been to hell and back in a lifetime of circumstances, this to me doesn’t even faze me regardless of how you interpret what I write.

    Also, I’m well aware of a criminal mindset too dear, I have had plenty of experience in dealing with people and their psychological disorders.

    Seriously, what if you are wrong, what would you do? You have all these demands of what the Pastor should do, i.e., humble himself, say the truth, step down from the pulipt…ok, well, what would you do if you found out what you heard was wrong? Don’t be so full of yourself that you couldn’t admit for a chance that you could be wrong. That would just speak volumes.

  107. SG says:

    RH, you should be posing that question to yourself. You are the one in doubt not me. Lets not put the cart before the horse. Let Cook take the DNA first then we’ll go from there. Remember, I’m not the one who is accused of gross ministerial misconduct. If it were me, I would admit the truth and allow the chips to fall where they may. People should have the right to choose to follow someone in this kind of situation. When the guilty manipulate the public into submission, that is fraud and a strong indicator of criminal mindsets at play again.

    Please don’t call me dear. I’m not your dear. Stop thinking so highly of yourself to conclude that you are able to speak to me in terms of endearment or are you just being a smart eleck? Either way, you can address me by my name only.

    IF, and that is a big IF, I am wrong than I am wrong, but this isn’t about me. In my opinion, Cook is guilty and the proof is Ricky and a DNA test will conclude without a shadow of a doubt the truth. And yes, I’m very passionate about the truth…are you???

    If you are trying to analyze me, you are doing a poor job. Remember, you can find out for youself what I am about in a public setting if you are not to scared. Anyway, Cook can tell you, he knows me well and he knows exactly my motivations. He doesn’t doubt my verocity or my resolve.

  108. SG says:

    RH, ask yourself this question…”What if I’m (meaning me not you) right?” and “What if you are wrong?”

    I know how to serve God and not man. My relationship with Jesus Christ will never stumble because of the failures of others. Can you say the same thing?

  109. Scott W. Kay says:

    SG & RH – Can you two please give it a rest? This has degenerated into an argument that seems to have no end. Thank you!

  110. SG says:

    No problem Scott. I’ve offered a one on one meeting to avoid clogging the blog and the invite is still open. I’d rather speak in person anyway. We’re not arguing, but we are having an important conversation that needs to take place. RH, if you want to continue, please email me at guinnfamily@cox.net.

    Thanks Scott.

  111. RH says:

    Scott I gotta say, this has been an eye opening experience, you may not feel any resolve, but I have learned a tremendous amount about people, so for that “Thanks.”

  112. kessington says:

    job was just and perfect man, yet God subjected him to a great test that involved lost of all his kid and possessions.
    this is just a divorce, not loss of life yet.
    pls let puala and randy be, they have God to ans to.
    don’t judge them because you are capable of doing was if you are in their shoes.

  113. afc leaders are fake says:

    People who continue to be fake ass Christians will never get anywhere in life. Come on AFC be real and tell the truth already! I attended for awhile and left for many reasons. One was these people put a man on a pedestal and practically worshiped him! On top of that pushed everything under the rug and said “if you don’t attend afc anymore your jacked up.” Wow can we say CULT. AS for Carolyn L. she sat there and told me how to dress and how to conduct myself as a lady and then slept with the Pastor. What an example of……can we say “slut”

  114. bill says:

    People you got to realize the true so you can see the false!! All of these people are false teachers, well without water, clouds without rain, the 2/3 of Rev 8. DONT BE FOOLED!!

    Just look for the suffering in a professing Christian’s life, if it is not there for the sake of Christ then put them on notice. Jesus said MANY, not FEW but many will say unto me… have I not not done this in your name and that in your name …..and you know the rest..
    He says I never knew you DEPART TO THE LEFT.

    Watch pray, stay close to the written word DON’T BE DECEIVED by these charlatens.

    http://www.julianplumbing.biz

  115. SG says:

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/04/tampas-without-walls-church-sale/?news-breaking

    Hmmm, I bet I know a church in Oceanside, California for sale…I think I’ll call my agent.

  116. SG says:

    North County Christians Beware:

    AFC’s media department has been busy flooding the internet with snippets of information via YouTube in an attempt to offset the negative publicity AFC and Barry Cook are receiving because of the misconduct. This is an obvious attempt to bury the many comments made by numerous people regarding their knowledge of the affair; subsequent divorces; and exodus of key leaders and parishoners….a PR move no doubt.

    In February a comment was posted to Craigs List New and Views warning the public to not attend AFC. Afterward a sudden PR blitz hit the internet trying to make Barry Cook seem like a man of God.

    To the public, I strongly caution you to not be seduced by this organizations craftiness in using video images to try to portray a man to be something he is not. This is nothing more than smoke and mirros…a mere illusion. Please be careful!!

  117. SG says:

    We were notified today that Ambassador Family Church is in foreclosure. Please pray in agreement for us as we believe God to send a man and/or woman of God to purchase this property for the continued advancement of God’s Kingdom in Oceanside, California. This effort has been postponed long enough due to Barry Cook’s misconduct.

    It is time that the people of God in this territory unite in prayer so that these Kingdom assets are not lost to the kingdoms of this world. In Jesus’ Name.

  118. Ron Satrape says:

    It really grieves me to see such little regard from you for the people who attend AFC. They don’t see things the way you do and I guess that that makes them less than the body of Christ in your eyes? In the turmoil of all that’s going on have you thought of them at all? You bring accusation against many but you show no responsibility to communicate love and concern for those who we call the body of Christ. You make yourself an authority over those who God sets in place and require that they prove their innocense to you?

    Well what have you done to make a difference other than accuse others? I’ve stayed up late to read all of your repeated accusations and frankly I’m really tired about now. I am minister of about 30 years experience and oversee about 12 churches and the Pastors that lead them. It never ceases to amaze me how people can accuse others and make them guilty by association.

    Recently I caught a secretary stealing thousands of dollars from the church. I got a taped confession and a signed statement that she had done so. I made an agreement with her for her to pay back the ten’s of thousands of dollars she had stolen in very clever ways for her to pay it back so that she wouldn’t have to go to prison. I had her little ones in mind. Just months later she tells others in the next church she goes to that she had to leave the last church because the Pastor was stealing money and they were going to blame her so she had to leave. She was calling members and telling them lies so that they would leave the church. People assumed that the Pastor was guilty because people were (after all) leaving the church.

    Now that I am the person in authority over AFC maybe you would like to prove these allogations? I’m not here for money and I have a network that is paying for me to serve the Lord in this capacity. AFC and BC have nothing I need, I’m here by divine appointment to serve the wonderful people of AFC. If you have some valid accusations then now is the time for you to make them officially.

    The building is not the Church and it’s high time that you recognized that. Your continued accusations now have a impartial listner. I do want to remind you that people are innocent until proven guilty and if you cannot prove what you are saying is true then you must at least meet your own standards of integrity and quit making unproven accusations. It is my desire to bring reconciliation not to take sides. I believe in AFC and I come at my own expense to serve them in what ever way possible so that they might be reconciled to their heavenly mandate with or with out BC. And unlike many others I’m willing to say who I am. In Him, Ron Satrape

  119. SG says:

    Hi Ron,

    Barry Cook knows exactly who I am. The proof of these accusations is about to start elementary school. Check it out.

    If you are so determined to be an impartial listener, email me directly. I will be happy to meet with you to discuss what we know and what others know and the time line of events that have taken place since the misconduct became public.

    Your accusations against me are only that and I do not either take offense or take them as conviction. I’m just going to ignore them.

    Maybe you would like to discuss all the people who have contacted me about the pain in their lives that they directly contribute to their past association with Cook. Where is your compassion for the families that are going through hell?

    That is too bad about your secretary, but that has nothing to do with me or this situation. More smoke and mirrors if you ask me.

    You are too arrogant or biased to understand what I believe about the Church. Your assumptions are just that…..assumptions.

    If you want to get to the bottom of it call me 760.622.9976.

    Scott has asked us to not clog this blog with back and forth tick for tat. I will honor his request. If you really want to know the truth, you will do your due diligence. If not, believe what you want to believe. And believe me, your assumption do not deter me in the least.

    Once again, my email is guinnfamily@cox.net

  120. SG says:

    Ron, I’m sorry, but I don’t recognize your authority. You can’t just name it and claim it there big bro.

    But I’m glad to know who is laboring amoung us in my North County Community. I’ll check your background out thoroughly.

    Have an awesome day serving an awesome God.

  121. Ron Satrape says:

    This will be the last time I respond to you on this site. I have been following these accusations and I have checked out these time lines. What I’m looking for is solid evidence, not what you know but solid evidence.

    If any one is jumping to conclusions they are slanderous and are subject to liability for their carelessness. If these alogations are true then the ones who are guilty are also liable and should be dealt with accordingly.

    What accusations are you referring to that I have brought against you? Is asking questions the basis for you alogations? You still haven’t answered my questions. You are under no obligation to do so other than you taking responsibility for the far fetching accusations that you have been making. I’m not looking for you to recognize my authority, I’m looking for you to take responsibility for the accusations you have been making.

    Your accusation of my arrogance is a bit premature seeing that you haven’t “checked out my back ground thoroughly”.

    Now your hiding behind Scott? What’s the matter are you afraid of litigation from those who can afford it?

    I’m not your Bro. and I never asked you to recognize my authority. I only offered an honest venue for legitimate and founded abuse to be heard and dealt with. Have you become so synical and critical that you don’t even recognize a sincere opportunity to bring reconciliation?
    I have read your postings on other websites and blogs and am very thorough and comprehensive in my approach to your communications. If the accusations you make are true then you distract from the validity of your claims by your critical and synical attitude. There is a real case here for legal action. Either put up or shut up. It’s not my responsibility to contact you it’s your responsibility to contact me at AFC. You have had enough time to make your acusations let’s see how well you can prove them instead of making your victims prove themselves. Your host on this site needs to quit hiding behind you and you behind him and do what is right for a change. It’s not a matter of conjecture or recognition on your part the fact is I am the person in authority over AFC and those in leadership. AFC will forward your communications to me. Sincerely in Him Ron Satrape

  122. SG says:

    Like I’ve said a hundered times . I’ve contacted AFC directly and asked for a private meeting numerous times which were dismissed out of hand. We attempted to resolve this privately before going public. Therefore, it is your responsibility to contact me and I have agreed to meet with any AFC leader at anytime.

    No one has been hiding or avoiding this communication but Cook.

    Again I can be reached at 760.622.9976. We can set up a meeting anytime. This offer has been made in the past and the invite remains open. Please contact me at your earliest convenience and we can work out the details.

  123. SG says:

    The number at AFC 760.639.4000 is no longer a valid AFC phone number. We called 411 and asked for the listing and none was available for Ambassador Family Church in Oceanside, CA. We went even further and pulled up the web site and found this number 760.722.7000. We contacted 411 again and asked them to do a cross reference on the 722.7000 number. They found no match and advised that the number is either a cell phone number or a unlisted number. We left a voice message to have Satrape contact us and we also sent an email to ronald@ambassadorfamily.com and carlton@ambassadorfamily.com requesting a return call/email from Satrape.

    Satrape did not leave a number or email address for us to contact him directly, yet he demands that we speak to him about our concerns and yet the contact information for AFC is not easily obtained and/or certain of it’s connection to AFC.

    We will meet with any AFC leaders face to face to discuss these matters. Please respond to our recent request of 3/15/08.

    To date Satrape is not verified as having any connection to AFC. Until he responds to our messages and emails, we can not verify his claim of being an overseeing authority at AFC. No one that we have spoken to has ever heard of Satrape and is not sure of his involvment with AFC if any.

    We do question why Cook is not answering to these concern personally but instead chooses to have someone else take care of his responsibility. Ron Satrape has never been our pastor and we do not feel that he should be putting himself between us and Cook. Barry Cook was at one time pastor to all of us. Why would he send a complete stranger to try to intimidate the people who once served faithfully and gave generously to support Cook’s leadership at AFC? Strange behavior for an innocent man.

  124. Annie says:

    Just how gullible do these so called men/women of God think we are!!! Anyway, they are right to think so i guess…after all they talk us into making them multimillionaires!!! Its such a pity!

  125. SG says:

    I’m not sure they will admit that they think we are gullible. It is more convenient for them to put the focus off of the real issues and start attacking the whistleblowers. They accuse us of being angry, wounded, rebellious and dispectful of authority, impertinent, and on and on. The whole time they are completely ignoring the blatant immorality and cover up right in front of them. Nice job guys trying to make this issue about me and my credibility and integrity.

    The bible clearly says, that he who hides his sin will not prosper.

    There is no scriptural basis to continue this cover up. So the question is, “Why the cover up?” Well, I’m sure the majority of the public can figure that one out for themselves.

    Time will tell the truth if nobody else will.

  126. SG says:

    Hi AFC family.

    Hal and I greet you in brotherly love and affection.

    I want to thank all of you who have called with your encouraging words. I also want to thank those who’ve been bold enough to send us their emails telling their story. We invite everyone to email us at guinnfamily@cox.net. We know that some of the family are at different places of recovery from the impact of this ordeal. Please know that even if you are feeling somewhat angry, ashamed, hurt, it doesn’t matter. There is no shame in you coming forward and telling your story.

    We visited the church last night to witness for ourselves the current situation. All I will say right now is that what is left of this once vital ministry is truly heart braking. If only Cook would have done the right thing a long long time ago. I wonder where we would all be right now. My heart goes out to the church. Truly and Sincerely.

    We can be reached at 760.622.9976. Call anytime.

    Blessings!

  127. SG says:

    Today I received a phone call from a currentl member of AFC who told me that she did not know that the church is in foreclosure. No announcement was made to the congregation regarding the financial state of the church specifically.

    She is very concerned about this because she feels that other people in the church are also in the dark about this information. She also did not know that Life Christian Church (760-480-6233) has placed a bid on the church. (We received an email from a current member of Life Christian Church who stated that they are in escrow for the AFC property and that they should be moving in the AFC building in a month or so.)

    The current congregation at AFC knows nothing about this possibility. I’ve left a voice message for Pastor Zane Johnson at LCC to verify the content of the email received from one of her members. Please feel free to contact her directly with your questions/concersns. Her husband is Stephen Johnson. They co-pastor this North County Church.

    In an earlier comment on this blog I was accused of not having any concern for the people at AFC. Now I find out that the leaders of AFC have not notified the members of the foreclusure and the possibility of the pending sale of the church. Do these leaders believe that the information that they are withholding is somehow in the best interest of the people, who by the way are throwing their money into a bag of holes? How careless and cruel is that?

    This member thanked me for my bravery in telling the truth about this situation. She said that she believes that she and the others have a right to know what is going on so that they can make the decision themselves about what they want to do about it.

    Our phone called ended after over 45 minutes of discussion with blessings a mutual respect. The woman considered me to be credible and is going to make up her own mind on what to do next. She also assured me that this revelation would not cause her to backslide because she has a solid relationship with Jesus Christ. She asked me to keep in touch with her and spoke a blessing over me and my family.

    AFC family. Please keep calling and sending your emails. This information is vital if we are going to salvage our church. Please don’t be afraid of the threat of a lawsuit. I know we’ve all been through so much and we don’t deserve to be treated with contempt. This is our chance to right this wrong. Please tell us your story. We’re here for you to help you and your family get through this time. We are simply your friend ready to assist you in anway that we can. Nothing else. I promise.

  128. SG says:

    We are THE CHURCH and the gates of hell will not prevail against us….

  129. Mary Cossins says:

    I am a Christian and an ordained minister. 3 or 4 years ago I found out my husband (who has not accepted Jesus yet) had been having an affair with another woman for 3 years. The Lord showed me how to do a warfare prayer to break off soul ties from this woman. My husband 8 months later asked me to give him another chance that the affiare was over, so I did and we are still married today and doing well.
    We need to learn to fight for our marriages and for our children. We need to fight in the name of the Lord and take back what the devil has stolen. Amen! Try it Paula, it works!

  130. New Believer says:

    Whether the allegations described above are true or not, several former AFC members believe them to be true and have been hurt deeply by them. I first learned about these roomers about two years ago and have been deeply troubled by them. Many former AFC members, including myself have “walked away from God”, at least to some degree. Some are outraged to the point of hate for BC and AFC.

    I am not by any means a biblical scholar, but if I understand correctly, the scriptures should help us work through this issue. I know that several of you have a far better understanding of the scriptures than I do and I would be grateful if you could help us all walk through this issue with the guidance of prayer and God’s Word.

    1. As I understand, all sin is equal, no greater or lesser in value in God’s judgment. Is it fair to say that most Christian pastors of most congregations in the U.S. have committed sin (knowingly wrong deeds, however great or small, as perceived by our flawed judgment) during the past two years. Does not the bible clearly say that we should confess our sin to one another. Must a pastor confess his sin to an entire congregation to confess to “one another”? Please provide scripture and contextual reference in your interpretation.

    2. As I understand, Jesus provides all of the forgiveness that BC should require in the event that he commits a sin. Did not Jesus forgive BC 2008 years ago on the cross, assuming that BC repents after he sins and continues to serve God? Since we do not know the heart of BC, are we able to determine whether or not he repented to God and confessed his sins to his brothers and sisters (this is assuming the worst – that the described allegations are true)? As I understand, we all fall short of the glory of God… we all make mistakes… Are not the sins that seem so inherently small by our standards lesser than the sin of adultery? Please advise.

    3. As I understand, if we believe that our brother is living in sin (or we have an issue with him) we should bring that issue directly to him and if it can not be resolved through him, the issue should be brought to the elders of the church. As I understand, SG attempted to meet with BC to discuss the issue, but BC refused the meeting. Is this correct? Scripturally, it appears that the pastor should agree to meet with the person with the issue. Is this correct? Should the issue be discussed with the elders, being at a lower position of authority than the pastor? Scripturally, what is the next step toward resolution if the pastor refuses to discuss the issue directly with SG?

    Thanks for the input.

    New Believer

  131. New Believer says:

    To clarify the first paragraph above, I do not blame AFC or BC for my “walking away from God” for a season or at any time in my life. God has given me His Son and His Word, which are both sufficient sources for my salvation and walk with Christ. I do not blame BC for me and my friends not being as “on fire for Jesus” today as we were while attending AFC. AFC placed a lot of pressure on me to be a good Christian. The church that I am attending currently does not do that. We mostly focus on reading and studying the Word of God. I hope that some day I can find a congregation of believers that is as on fire for Jesus Christ as AFC was. However, I do struggle with confusion that these rumors have caused me and many of my friends. I would like to know the truth about these issues, but I believe that my reasons are mostly carnal.

    Some former AFC members, including myself, are still confessing believers and attending church. Others are jaded and not attending any church. I am certain that there is no such thing as a perfect church in the U.S… we have far to many distractions from the enemy in our country – money, sex, TV, work, “the Jones'”, advertising, looking pretty, false religion, violence, hate, racism, selfishness, getting ahead, etc. In my opinion, believers in less fortunate countries (which have less of these distractions) may be able to focus more of their attention on God. I believe that the passion of AFC helps dispel some of these distractions and allows the believer to focus more on things of God. No other pastor that I have experienced to date urges the believer to get in a relationship with God as much as BC did, although to be fair, I have not visited as many congregations as some of you have.

    The point is that I do not think that it is fair to blame AFC or BC for our investment in God. We did not pay tithes and offerings to BC, but to God. We did not go to Super Sabado for BC, but for God. We were not on fire for Christ because of BC, bus because of what JC did for us. BC is a man with flaws like all of us. We can argue doctrine until we’re blue in the face, but the reality is that we are all created in the image of God and are living in a country that is digressively turning away from God and Christ-likeness. We should, however, stand up for what is just, if it can be justified through clear doctrine. Would you help clarify this doctrine for me? Is it not possible that BC has already been forgiven for any sins that he has committed while serving as pastor of AFC? Is it not possible that he made a mistake and has repented? If it is possible that BC is in the will of God TODAY, then who are we to cause him to stumble by bringing up alleged wrongs of his past, TODAY, which are meant to expose him unjustifiably? If exposing BC is justifiable, please break down the scriptures that explain what actions we should be taking to address the issue. If you are able to do so, I agree to support your cause if the scriptures are clearly aligned with your proposed actions.

  132. SG says:

    If any of the above questions are meant for me directly, please utilize the email address and/or phone number published above.

    The purpose for this forum for me is accomplished.

    WE are the CHURCH and the gates of hell will not prevail against US.

    I leave you with this. Christianity is not just “talking” about living right for God. Believe it or not, WE are able to actually DO IT.

    I’ve known a particular pastor whose wife gave me a pocket bible in 1987. I still carry that bible with me where ever I go. I’ve preached the gospel with it everywhere. This same pastor and his wife have been married and in ministry for over 25 years. I’m sure in that time they’ve made judgement call errors and/or administrative errors, however, they have managed to have a successful marriage and ministry without the scandal of adultery, pregnancy outside of marriage, divorce, foreclosure and the like. They have demonstrated by their actions what they taught us about faithfulness and devotion to God. Even after their middle daughter was tragically killed in a plane crash while coming home from preaching at a youth event, this couple never turned to the world for comfort or vengeance against God’s word. They have continued building some of the most successful Christian/church family’s in the Gulf Coast region. Every time I open up that Bible and read its pages, I am encouraged. I know that I can and will be successful in marriage and in service unto the Lord. I am not confused about what is right and what is wrong. My bible explains it all clearly. I trust it. I trust God. Neither has ever let me down.

    I firmly believe that the example that God placed in my life over two decades ago can be witnessed in North County.

    Tender salutations in Jesus’ Matchless Name.

  133. New Believer says:

    Glad to hear that the issue has been resolved.

  134. SG says:

    If you want to talk call me 760.622.9976.

  135. Salt & Light says:

    I just wanted to say that this page is not meant for any excuses… BC has done enough of that for everyone. I was a member of the AFC church. I left two years ago because of the all this non sense… It amazes me that when he preaches he was a different person…I remember volunteering for the daycare inside the church. BC would always walk in and spend time with little Ricky before he goes to preach. He would talk to him like a Father and son… And as he walks away, little Ricky calls him “Papa”… I didnt quite get that picture…..

    The only way we can shut this whole conversation down is for BC to take that DNA test… That’s it… but obviously he is hiding something…. So of you are asking for proofs, but the only proof you need to get is that DNA test…. BC- you need to speak the truth, it will set you free… It’s the only way….

    Anyway, I went back to visit last week and the church was so empty… Six rows from the back were empty… The entire balcony area was empty… It was just so sad…

    SG- I am with you 100% and so as many other people that I know… So many people are hurt by what happened and still BC is not giving up… His Pride is just eating him up…. Lord Have Mercy….

    Salt & Light

  136. Salt & Light says:

    In addition to my previous note. The daycare issue happened at the beginning of last year… I only volunteered to stay in the daycare because I had my daughter running around in there… I didnt feel comfortable leaving my child in the care of two little girls around the ages of 10-15…. They were so young… I saw BC come in and just watch baby Ricky and then talk to him like Father and Son would… And as he walks away, little Ricky says “papa”…. I mean, he didnt look at any other kid but little Ricky… I had that gutt mother feeling that they had some sort of connection… It’s too obvious… Besides, that little boy looks just like him…

    Salt & Light

  137. SG says:

    Good morning Salt and Light.

    My heartfelt prayers and sympathies go out to you and the many others who have had to experience this kind of “evil” in the house of God. I remember leaving AFC for the last time. I felt so completely violated and grieved in my spirit. I wanted to run from what I’d seen and heard. Thankfully, I knew I could run to the father and he would perserve my innocence in Him; and He did. Unfortunately, this is not the case with many. They ran and did the very thing they were repulsed by. The betrayal and the confusion was too much for some to deal with. For all who are struggling with sin as a result of the bondage and captivity of this situation, I pray boldly now and ask God in Jesus’ matchless name to set you free……….Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. Be free in Jesus’ Name.

    If you need personal prayer, please call 760.622.9976. We will agree together for all the will of God to be accomplished. You will live and not die and do great exploits in His name.

  138. SG says:

    For former AFC leaders and charter members.

    It was brought to my attention recently that many of you are meeting together for the purpose of possibly filing a law suit. I must advise each and every one of you to discontinue this effort. I know many of you feel cheated out of years of giving into the work at AFC and now that you are admitting what was right in front of you all along, you are thinking about doing this evil. You cannot allow your pride to continue to lead you in ways that will find you resisting the Kingdom of God. I strongly encourage all of you to fall on your face and repent for the years of involvement in the cover up at AFC. Many of you chose to ignore the problem and now that you realize that you have blood on your hands you want to go after the money you believe is in the bank. The Lord rebuke you in Jesus name. Your motives are being revealed to the wise if you take this action. Let me ask you this question. Were you about the money all this time? Are you trying to recoup your losses now that you finally realize that you are not going to get wealthy in ministry? What was your real expecation for being in North County in the first place? Sure some of you may have been completely duped, but many of you were not. You allowed AFC to be in the state that it is in now. You need to repent and ask God to place you UNDER the ministry and supervision of a man and/or woman of God who can restore you properly into the Lord’s service. If you allow your pride to move you ahead with a law suit you will most certainly find yourself fighting against God. Remember, God gives grace to the humble, but He will resist the proud. Just repent and move on. You do not have the right to do this thing. Mark my words. You’ve been lovingly warned. I hope you can humble yourself and receive the word of the Lord.

    If questions, please call 760.622.9976.

  139. Lacey Love says:

    First, mI am not a fan of their brand of Christianity. I agree and disagree with your article though. If they both wanted and sought the divorce then your assessment is 100% correct. Then they are both 100% in sin and should step down from their posts and repent.

    But, Randy said, in an interview, that he took all the responsibility and that it was 100% his decission. Today, if one partner wants a divorce then you can’t stop them. So, if Randy sought the divorce, then Paula would have no control and it would be a test.

    Also, this kind of post is not Biblical, unless you have approached them privately first and they refused to hear you.

    Lacey

  140. S.K. says:

    It sadens me so much to see that so many former AFC members are so bitter over what is no longer there business. It is your personal opinion and conviction to leave the church for your own reasons. But your continuous slander and spreading of unproven imformation on proves that you are harboring bitterness and unforgiveness. It is the Lords job and only His to judge situations that us as men do not understand. Who are any of us to cast the first stone, we are not free of sin as Jesus was, so what makes any of us so much better than another.

    Lets say for one second that all the alligations are 100% true, how do any of us know that he has not saught God for forgiveness and all the parties involved? No one but God, Barry and those parties directly involved know for sure. So again I ask, who are you to judge him or anyone else? Have you not also fallen short of the Glory of God, but the God I serve is a God of mercy and grace. So as Christians, shouldn’t we be striving to be Christ like?

    I might not always agree with the things that are done at AFC or decisions that are made by church leadership, but I trust my God enough, that He would tell me if it was time for me to leave. So come stroms, rain or shine, pursecution or peace, I am staying where God has me until He says to move. Believe me from experiance I know what its like to not be in Gods timing, and because of that I am going to listen only to Gods voice in this situation.

    As long as there is people at AFC who are hungry for Gods presence and His will to be done, God will always supply. That is why I serve at AFC for God alone, and the advancement of His kingdom. I don’t go to AFC and serve for Barry, or any other church leaders, but for God alone.

    S.K.

  141. M.O. says:

    And???

    All that does is show that they can no longer afford the loan payments. Makes sense if there’s a decline in membership. I’m sure they’ll find another location to continue to follow Christ and rebuild. God is a just God and will be sure to reward those who diligently seek Him!!

  142. to m.o. says:

    come on mo. that is a fact he they could not afford the church because of all the destruction that was done to many families, causing them to leave and remove their tithe. The newspaper doesn’t even know 1% of the story.

  143. M.O. says:

    Of course, if people are going around talking about the church as though it was evil, sometimes you’d get the feeling that those people look at that church and those who attend it as worse than somebody who is unsaved? I mean, reading the comments on here is a good example of that. What happened to forgiveness? I can imagine, if they were all true, some people being hurt. But just find a new church home and continue on with life. Leave it God’s hands and quit taking things into your own hands. Umm.. the ark, vengeance is mine, those are all in the bible. People on here have even said that the comments could cause somebody to stumble because of the way the church has been attacked instead of loved. All repeated stuff though… it’s almost a mute point, right now. I just can’t believe the unforgiveness that some people are walking in. And then, somebody bad happens and all of a sudden all these people seem to have their justification to put people’s business on the street. I’m sure T.G. would appreciate S.G. putting his business on the internet like that. Talked about throwing T.C. under the bus but what would you call putting T.G.’s stuff out like that. Plus, we are all accountable for our own actions. He chose to live that lifestyle. Just seems that the church and their leaders are often used a scapegoat for other’s failures. Not blaming anybody but God always talks about checking yourself before pointing fingers. I’m sorry if I’ve offended anybody but we’re all in One Body, One Baptism, with One God but yet, we fight like little children who fight in the back of a car on the way to Disneyland! Okay, bad analogy but I think you get my point. I pray that the church and those involved continue to press into God and Seek His face and follow Him! As they do, God promises that He will heal their land. So, whether it’s at their current location, or not, I’m sure they’ll continue to move where God leads them, despite any opposition, whether from the enemy, other people, or even themselves.

  144. To MO and SK says:

    TG can be found on the Megan’s Law website for sexual offenders. His “business” is public record because of the severity of the situation. His “actions” are not just his own business anymore. He gave that luxury up when he chose to commit the offense.

    SG brought up the situation without naming names to make a point regarding the spiritual incest in the church. SG could have posted the website address but the point was not about TG so SG didn’t throw anyone under the bus.

    Have you talked to SG? If not, how can you say that SG is angry or bitter? I know for a fact that she is neither. She has posted her number. Why don’t you call her directly. At least she will give an account for what she believes. Give her a call. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised to learn that this woman is gracioius, kind and full of Godly wisdom and integrity.

    Don’t take my word for it. Call her yourself.

  145. M.O. says:

    For most of this blog, I didn’t sense any of those characteristics for most of those comments. Yes, there was a point in which it changed and I did start to see kinder messages. But it’s not about her to be honest. The Body of Christ, Christians, will be known by their love. This is about that at times, even here, people that attend AFC are almost treated worse than sinners. Go read some of those comments on the NC Times article, and I’m sure you’ll see that there, as well. Look at it from an objective standpoint. Again, there’s always two sides to every, EVERY story. Everything that has been said has been stated as fact, but even innocent people have spent a lifetime in jail only to be proven innocent after spending 50, 60, or 70 years in jail. So, a bunch of stories told from different perspectives make it all true? I find it hard to believe that the church could judge somebody that hard but at times you would think that was the case. Maybe I’m going overboard with it, or over-analyzing these things. Just show me a scripture where you are supposed to attack a christian (even if he did sin, he is a man, but I’m sure there’s sin in every preacher’s life, commiting a sin does not destroy his/her relationship with Christ and make him/her unsaved), a believer and demand that everybody involved with him leave what they feel God has called them to continue to do in thier lives. Show that scripture to me, and I’m sure I can find many more that talk about love, forgiveness and restoration. I also find it funny that Apostle Ron Satrape was attacked when he came on here looking for evidence and was negated because he had to prove his credentials. He even said he was overseeing the church now and would be open to hearing proof and now these news articles prove that he wasn’t sent by Barry Cook but is in fact in oversight. Could an opportunity have been missed, when supposedly, nobody will return calls or e-mails to meet.

    I agree that T.G. did lose his right to that kind of freedom but I’m just saying, there was no reason to bring up a name or situation to try to make a comparison because, like I said, it was his life and his decision to take those actions. He’s accountable for his own soul. Hopefully he has repented and his relationship with Christ is continued. Okay, name wasn’t mentioned… but by saying he was on the team and blah blah blah, it wasn’t hard for anybody that may have attended during those times to know who it was. To me, that’s disrespectful. It’s not the right way to handle it. The analogy could have just been said without bringing people in as examples. So, again, please hear me in that I just felt it was disrespectful to use a person’s situation to justify your point. That’s how slander and gossip works though.

  146. Salt & Light says:

    To M.O- I come to you with grace and peace… I think Scott Kay has made it clear to take this back and forth out of this blog. Listen- if you feel that SG is bitter and disrespectful, please contact her directly. SG’s info is listed above. Just to let you know, SG is not as bad as you think she is… Go ahead call her…

    Thanks,
    Salt & Light

  147. So sad says:

    I am so sad to hear about the AFC foreclosure… I saw this coming in the long run because of all the financial struggles that the congregation was going through… And not to mention all the broken marriages… I really do believe that sometimes we tend to depend on our own knowledge/understanding rather than depending on God… And when this happens we lose focus of Him… Jesus… Because it really is all about Jesus… Sometimes you can’t really hear God, because you are either so busy or so much involve in wordly things… But that’s okay… He can take you out of that darkness… Out of that empty and lonely place…

    Barry prayers are with you and the AFC church. Just remember, it’s just a building… You can do praise and worship from your living room with two or three people- Jesus will be there… Because He said so in His word, that where there are two or more of His children praying and praising Him, He is with them… I want to encourage you to start living in the Truth… we all make mistakes but you have to repent… Confess… and watch His mighty hand restore you and renew your spirit… You have to Repent Now Barry…. Gal 6:7 “remember that you can’t ignore God and get away with it… You will always reap what you sow.” It’s never too late Barry… Do the right thing… Confess your sins… And please encourage Carolyn to do the same… All the best and God’s Blessings upon you….

  148. PRAYER REQUEST says:

    prayer request… PRAY for AFC and the deliverance of Barry… Pray for restoration… Pray for direction… pray for repentance…. Please dont forget to Pray for Carolyn… Inspite of everything going down hill, Carolyn is actually a wonderful individual… She might’ve caused a lot of pain and drama for the Cook’s… Actually it cost two marriages… She has done a lot of great things for the AFC congregation.. It will take a lot of space to list everything… But please do pray for her deliverance as well… Pray to strengthen her spiritual walk… And pray for everyone on here that was hurt in someway from this whole ordeal. God’s Blessings and Healing be upon all of you… Grace and Peace!

  149. SG says:

    Joyous greeting to everyone.

    Praise the Lord. I am thankful this morning that our God reigns in the midst of so much confusion and misunderstanding. He is gracious and full of mercy to everyone who comes before him with a humble heart asking Him for forgiveness. His word tells us that He will not withhold wisdom to those who ask Him. If we do not pray amiss the Lord will guide us all through these end times with great victory. I bless the Church and ask her Bridegroom to lovingly lead her and guide her into that victory. We will be found without spot or wrinkle because the blood of Jesus blots out our sin. Through confession and faith we are made whole. Be made whole family of God.

    MO, sincerely, please forgive me for any offense. Blessings to you and yours.

  150. SG says:

    Salt and Light and M.O., I would like to gordially invite you ladies to lunch on Saturday. We don’t even have to discuss our situation at the church if you don’t want to. You can call me at 760.622.9976. This invitation is open to anyone who would like to join us.

    Be blessed friends.

  151. Salt & Light says:

    SG I will have to decline. Please pray for some relatives… See link attached… Families are gathering this weekend… So, it might now work out to meet… I would love to meet you one of these days….

    http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/04/30/news/coastal/carlsbad/nct91548d2578295db78825743b00546.txt

  152. Salt & Light says:

    Just wanted to share the following posting by “walk in the light” on NCTIMES… I thought it was well said…

    walk in the light
    [-] wrote on May 1, 2008 6:32 AM:

    Dangerous to mistakenly call the judgment of God a “religious spirit;” calling soulish fervor the power of God; prophesying things that people want to hear when God has not told you to say it; using the ways of the world to build a church; honoring the gifts of God over God Himself; trying to create His presence through fleshly means; worshiping man; hiding behind others and not confessing truth; thinking too highly of yourself; not being humble. God will not be mocked. He holds those in leadership to a higher standard. Demonizing everyone who leaves and not being willing to examine yourself is foolish. Judgment begins at the house of God. He is doing a purifying work in these last days. Recognize the Holy Spirit as He brings correction, and don’t mistake Him for the work of the devil. Moses could not enter the promised land because he did not rightly represent God before the people; he allowed his emotions and anger free reign. David repented, but there were grave consequences to his sin with Bathsheba. Ichabod. Cry out for repentance and maybe God will have mercy on you. Terri Cook loves God and would never leave her husband and break up her family over stress. She is woman of the Word and would only divorce for the reason that is allowed. Many others who have left love Jesus and were horrified at the way He was misrepresented at AFC.

  153. SG says:

    My heart felt prayers go out to you and your family Salt and Light. If you need anything let us know.

    Jesus……lavish this family with your love and peace. Console them as only you can…thank you…I love you Lord.

  154. Seeking Truth says:

    As a former member of AFC and still a member of the Body of Christ, I can say that I know both SG and BC personally. I also know how the leadership structure at AFC operates. If you question or have a differing opinion than that of leadership, you are automatically labeled as rebellious, coming against authority, or otherwise demonized.

    To SG: I must say that I admire for the stand that you are making and I encourage you to continue in this battle to bring the truth to light. I have always known you to be a woman of bold faith and strong conviction with a heart that deeply loves the family of God as well as those who do not yet know Him. I stand with you in this battle no matter how difficult it may get. The fight for truth isn’t always a pretty fight but it is a ncessary one. I would much rather have someone look me in the eye or “on a blog” and tell me the truth than to deceive me with a lie.

    I noticed that some of your comments on this post have been very bold and assertive, but I have no problem with them understanding the spirit that you are up against. BC has lied to his congregation about many things for many years.

    SG, I know that I can trust you so be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might for He is with you and not against you.

    By the way…why would it offend someone that you asked Ron Satrape about his credentials? When you go to the doctor don’t you want to know that he is qualified?

  155. sandlrz says:

    Pretty amazing stuff. My only connection with this is that I’m a follower of Christ who once saw this church from the road and thought the architecture was cool–and I’m an unemployed mortgage marketing specialist who receives news about San Diego mortgage meltdown issues. My first read of the foreclosure article gave me a “there’s more to this than that” feeling — so I reviewed the church’s website and looked for other news. Out of curiosity mainly.

    Incredible path of communications on this blog — WOW — it’s like watching a movie! Not to be trite–actually pretty sad, but definitely not a NEW story. Very similar to a story in the Bible — actually a couple of stories. The first one kinda goes like this: “Hey Saul, God told you HANDS OFF that booty and loot (cattle, etc!) You say you did not take it anyway? Say, friend, then what’s all that bleating of sheep echoing through out the valley? Nonexistent sheep DON”T BLEET! (There’s a whoooole lot of sheep bleating and scattered around the AFC pasture–and the ONLY one NOT laying his life down for the sheep is their shepherd….hmmm. Just an observation.

    The other story is even more fascinating. It’s the SG vs. the “leadership” at AFC. Whoa. At first, I thought, oh this “guy” interesting—then to find out it was a woman! WOW!!!! One torpedo after another, from the right, from the left, from the top, from the bottom, from the bottom of the barrel (the “vendor”) and from the pinnacle of the temple heights (the insider church leadership and their special new guy) and this lady stands her ground, accurately quotes and applies scripture, responds clearly and consistently, honors her husband and only wants one thing–the people and church she loved to know they are being misled and to ask them to go to their “leaders” personally and ask direct questions for themselves. She puts her name, phone number and email out there for everyone to know. And is willing to meet publicly and in person. On the other side, enter stage left and right, Tobiah and Sanballat, and those other close relatives of Eliashib — who by the way remains pretty silent — while T and S do the dirty work…turns out that the leader and T were family…

    Read Nehemiah today — the word is sharper than a two-edged sword. Here’s a sample of why it seems so similar to me (the verses are not all listed below, but they are in order and a complete reading of the actual Book would be recommended:

    “The remnant there in the province who survived the captivity are in great distress and reproach, and the wall of Jerusalem is broken down and its gates are burned with fire.”
    When I heard these words, I sat down and wept and mourned for days; and I was fasting and praying before the God of heaven.”…Then I came to the governors of the provinces beyond the River and gave them the king’s letters. When Sanballat the Horonite and Tobiah the Ammonite official heard about it, it was very displeasing to them that someone had come to seek the welfare of the sons of Israel…So I went out at night by the Valley Gate in the direction of the Dragon’s Well and on to the Refuse Gate, inspecting the walls of Jerusalem which were broken down and its gates which were consumed by fire. Then I passed on to the Fountain Gate and the King’s Pool, but there was no place for my mount to pass. So I went up at night by the ravine and inspected the wall…But when Sanballat the Horonite and Tobiah the Ammonite official, and Geshem the Arab heard it, they mocked us and despised us and said, “What is this thing you are doing? Are you rebelling against the king?”

    SG — I can see you are standing courageously and outraged–more by the deceit and degeneration of other’s faith and trust. You seem solid–the AFC leadership seems to be trying every tactic to discourage you, especially that guy who changed his “I called a staff member in the office” story three times, but your responses have continued to say the same thing. “Leaders ARE accountable! Tell the truth, restore those you’ve hurt.”

    You know you may never see it happen at AFC while on earth, don’t you? These are the last days. But we don’t know the times/seasons, so keep standing and speaking out for as long as the Spirit leads you.

    I have to laugh at the last part of Nehemiah’s story…where he says he laid the smack down, pulled some hair, smote them! Not that we would want to do that, but it’s still a clear picture of zeal for the house of GOD! I like the part where the naughty priest THE LEADER had made a secret room for Tobiah, where the Lord’s offering was supposed to be stored…and now conveniently missing from the room. When Nehemiah found out, he was ticked off! He tossed all Tobiah’s stuff out on the street–and refilled the room with items for the Lord’s offering storehouse. Y’all know what the offering is for, right? SO THE CHURCH DOESN’T GO BANKRUPT!

    I didn’t read any “licking chops” to see the downfall at AFC by SG, only sorrow, anger (and GOD gets angry at sin when it stumbles others, too!) and a desire for things to be dealt with correctly. But from the other side…what a diverse cross section of tactics employed there! By the way, AFC, the “vendor” who claims you all trust very much and provide him with loads of inside information and business displayed some outright demonic behavior and conversation! Birds of a feather, dudes! And I don’t know or know of any of you, but wow, choose your associates more carefully! Ya wanna end up like Aaron’s sons? Or Saul? Or Eli? Or Judas? Try the David method before it’s too late! (Psalm 51…) These men were ALL leaders representing GOD. Five did what you’re doing. One humiliated himself before a nation and the world. One was forgiven and lived to be honored by God. Five were…not so much.

    AFC wouldn’t do the right thing. Looks like the LORD is sending in the grim reaper (bank) to take care of it. (that’s a reference to the book of Nahum and Habakkuk! Check it out…

  156. HG says:

    One undeniable fact into the character of BC is the CD that I listened to recently. On March 5th, 2006 the title of the message was; Corporate Communion and Release. The scripture used was 1Tim. 5:17-20. The pastor (BC) delivered the most hideous, demeaning, slanted and downright nastiest attempt at character assination on one of his Elders. People treat their animals better than this, for it to be done on at a communion service while th e congregation is holding the elements is even more disturbing! I wondered what did this departed Elder do to warrant such treatment? It was obvious most who listened that this was a personal and professional attack meant to utterly destroy this minister. Please, don’t just go by my observations, order a copy of it for yourself at AFC. The title and date of production is listed above, don’t be surprised if it is unavailable or has a 15 min. gap in the middle of the recording.
    It even sounds like BC has his wife (still married at the time) sit next to the Elders spouse on the front row to comfort her. This appears to be the same woman many feel that fathered the pastors (BC) male child. How ironic and disrespectful would that be if it were true that he blasted this guy out of the water just to deflect attention from his adulterous relationship. If he would stoop this low and even use his spouse in this manner is disgusting. I am not claiming to know if he slept with the on the church payroll wife of one of his Elders, because I have no solid proof. A reasonable person would ask, if it is not true why hasn’t BC done everything in his power to disprove any and all rumors, if not for his sake, then for this ‘poor woman’ who has lost her husband and the peace of mind of his spouse and daughter. I feel that a man should first be able to take care of his own house and family before he can effectively minister to mine. Next point, 800 minus 600 (everybody got tired excuse) equals 200 members left. Now I don’t know of many real leaders who will sit back and watch 3/4 of their people walk out the door and be so arrogant as to not address it, by any means necessary. In address it, I am not speaking of ‘everybody is leaving me, ya’ll not support me, this person is talking about me, me, me, me, me, etc.’ type of addressing.
    I look at the blogs every several days for new material, and if I were a betting person, I would put my money on SG and the observations and comments she makes. If you open your heart as you read her entries, you can feel love for Gods people, true integrity and sound character. Haven’t heard anything from BC, and the Youtube video from Easter that he did was totally read from a teleprompter that was positioned too high and too much to his right and our left when you view it. Once he puts the bible down, watch his eyes closely. Give me a break, if you’re a pastor and you have to read a small message concerning Easter from a TV screen? Makes me wonder if he wrote the words himself. I don’t think that truth will ever see the light of day. Talk to you soon.

  157. SG says:

    Hello ladies and gentlemen. Wow, I don’t know what to say. The comments above are truly humbling. God bless all of you for your gracious words of support. I will do my best to serve them well. I really can’t put into words how I feel right now. Again, thank you….and blessings.

  158. Keep Moving Forward says:

    Sorry to hear that so many people feel this church is going to fail. I know that the leadership and the ministry of this church has undergone tremendous change and are seeking God on a regular basis. If you don’t believe this, then please, attend a service and I’m sure you will see for yourself, even from the beginning with Praise and Worship. Don’t judge this church based on what you’re hearing but believe God for them.

    The leadership of this church is different than in the times that these accusations are being made. In fact, some of the accusations are coming from some who were a part of “that” leadership. They left and then decided that is was okay to come against the the very team/people/ministry methods/practices that they themselves put in place.

    I know the people of this church believe for a greater end, an end that will see many continue to come to the faith through this ministry.

    But again, I challenge you to see for yourselves how they are serving Our Lord and seeking Him and Him alone!

  159. SG says:

    The Church will never fail. What is of God will remain! The stuff that is not of God is being rooted out! That rooting our process is not over with yet at AFC. Really it has just begun.

    I have seen for myself very recently and AFC has a long way to go. Real restoration will begin with real repentance. No more excuses. No more whining. No more wordplay. No more manipulation and hype. No more false prophetic self justification. What is needed is found in the plan of redemption:

    Confession with the mouth.
    Repentance – turning away from sin.
    Sancification through faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ.

    These fruits are visible and made manifest through the character of the converted. In other words, let the fruit speak for itself.

    To date the fruit is:
    Divorce
    Adultery
    Exodus of leadership
    Foreclosure
    Public humiliation.
    The scattering of hurt and wounded people whose church’s banner reads, “Helping the hurting and the hungry for 12 years.”

    Maybe now humility will bring God’s true plan to pass.

    God will never fail. He is always just. He does not take sides. He is for us not against us.

    God bless the Church.

  160. SG says:

    Just to be clear. We were never a part of any AFC corruption. Period

  161. S.K. aka Sabrina says:

    SG- You claim that the only fruit that AFC has manifested is Divorce, Adultery, Exodus of leaders…… but there are many people at AFC and even former members who have had there life utterly and profoundly changed becuase of the ministry of AFC. God has not forsaken AFC or forgot about it, He is still willing and able to touch lives through the leadership of AFC. I personally have experience tramendous breakthrough and healiing in my life as a result of God working through the leaders of AFC.

    You seem to want to go into detail about the short comings of leaders and members of AFC but only breifly mention the situations that your son went through as a teen/ unwed father. (please dont take this as me attacking K cuz I have nothing against him) And then went on to blame it on the youth leadership at AFC. As a parent, you influence on your son should be far more then the influence of any other person. And weither intentional or not you breifly mentioned me. Yeah I was clustered in that mention of the number of unwed pregnancy that resulted in that youth group, but that is in no way AFC leaders fault. I made that mistake on my own but you know what, God was faithful to show His grace and mercy when I cryed out to him for forgiveness. And after wedding a bit before our child was born, Gods was so gracious in bringing us restoration. So you see, reguardless of the way that things started, my married and children are highly favored by the Lord.

    Believe me there was a time when I to wondered about all the rumors and was hurt by them, but I have come to the revalation that they are all man and able to fall short of of Gods glory. So no matter if its all true, i dont go to church for Barry or for Ron or for anyone else. I go to church to serve the Lord and for nothing and NO ONE else. And quite frankly I have more important things to worry about in my life then the latest gossip going around the church. And I think there are far more worthy things to be spending our time doing then wondering and spreading rumors and making unfounded accustations at your former pastors. I can not comprehend why as a former member who has claimed to move on, is still so seemingly “obsessed” with this situation. Let God do is work and if all the claims of sin are true, God will bring light to those situations in His due time. So meanwhile, why not just spend your time building up the Kingdom of God and reaching the lost with the gospel.

    Blessings,

    Sabrina

  162. SG says:

    Hello Sabrina.

    You are not breaking any scoop about Kenny. Everyone knows that my older son Kenny is incarcerated. As far as him being a father, that is the word of a young woman who had several simultaneous sexual relationships in her 17 year life at the time she got pregnant. There is no certainity that Kenny is the father and until the child is given a DNA test which has also been refused by CD even though she has demanded money from Kenny; we do not conclude any relation with her child.

    Sabrina I am glad you are being restored for your youthful mistakes. What a teenager does in his/her impressionable years can vary. But the word of the Lord says, that if we train up a child in the way he should go when he is old he will not depart from it.

    You will be glad to know that Kenny is restored as well. He is set free from addiction and is currently writing a book that will be a blessings to many I’m sure. We will be doing this project together to help families who have gone through similiar hardships.

    Every time that I am publically or privately asked about my family I have always told the truth without shame. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The only mistake that we made as parents is allowing certain individuals the opportunity to have a significant influence in our children’s lives. Unfortunately, the influence undermined everything that was being taught by us as parents and bred rebellion. We simply trusted the wrong people. This ungodly influence had a negative impact on a lot of people not just teenagers.

    As far as unfounded accusations, well that is not true and you know it. But I see you are on a quest along with other AFC defenders to rail against truth this evening, so I will leave you in your state. However, please understand that my time is of value and the things that I am after are worth that time and effort. In the end, we will all be comforted by truth and the freedom it brings. Don’t presume that you can tell me what to do with my time or my life. It sounds like you still have some growing up to do.

    Please tell Nan hi for me. Do you blame her for your youthful indescretions? I know that you ignored her advise to you and carried on sexually before you were married even though she did not approve. Why did you do that? What other influence was working that rebellion inside of you? Your mother was your greater influence/authority, yet you rebelled as many do when they are deceived about what they think is good for them. You and I both know that pregnancy outside of marriage at AFC is not an uncommon situation. It happens a lot. There is a definite problem with sexual promiscuity in that congregation. I know you believe you did it on your own and it is good that you are taking responsibility, however fornication and adultery has made a home at AFC.

    These things are fact. If you persist with this nonsense, you will force me to expound on these facts. I suggest you think real hard before you continue.

    Lastly, my husband and my sons are God fearing men who call me blessed. They support me 100 percent.

    I fear that what you call breakthough from AFC leaders is really about your need to feel accepted in spite of your short comings. You’re being exploited for your weaknesses and I don’t think you even realize it. You feel like you owe them something because they didn’t correct you while you were in sin and allowed you to live your life as if none of it (the bad conduct) really mattered. In a way Sabrina you and Abe are somewhat responsible for being a stumbling block to the AFC youth. You guys sort of got the ball rolling. Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad everything is so wonderful for you now, but I hope you’ve really learned your lesson and that you take your responsibility more seriously now. You have a child of your own. I know you don’t want him/her to suffer for any unregenerated ways of living. The whole sins of the father thing……

    I hope the thug life at AFC is finally being put in the grave along with all the other gang like ways of social behavior at AFC. It created a lot of dysfunction. The kids paid the ultimate price.

  163. SG says:

    Here is an excerpt of Kenny’s book in his own words:

    It was 1998 when I first visited AFC. I had grown up with the understanding that church was part of life. My earliest memories were of living on the Gulf Coast of Texas with Sunday School at the charismatic southern church down the road. I learned that church was a large family. Everyone helped out one another and a pastor was a trustworthy person. Church was a place for self evaluation and access to guidance from humble men and women that held themselves to a moral standard higher thanmost others. I was taught that a pastor should be a charismatic person. Someone passionate and vocal about what they stood for. Someone who truly believed in what they taught and was a leader to his or her followers. A pastor was a smiling accessible person. That why when I went with my dad to one of AFC’s Visitor Sundays I was initially impressed. I was 13 at the time time and the Gulf Coast had long since ceased to be our home. My family and I had moved to Oceanside some six years earlier and despite several attempts to find our spiritual home, we had not been able to. Up until that point, nothing we found could match the idea of what we felt a church should be. Either the congregation were stand offish or the pastor was milquetoast at best or a skeptic himself at worst. We didn’t get that feeling of home until we found AFC. Barry Cook was a charismatic everyman as a pastor. He was blue collar, down to earth and passionate about what he purveyed through the pulpit. He was organized. He had a plan. He wanted to bring spiritual revival to North County and was looking for a few good men and women to help him. Within months we were recruited. My entire family was wrapped up in our new church as tightly as could be.

  164. SG says:

    We had overbooked our schedules with church services, events, event preparation, humble service and vats of volunteer hours. Not to mention our more than significant financial contributions. All in all, it was a heavy commitment, but we were excited to be a part of a family that cared for the community the way AFC did. No task was too small We just wanted to serve God. Time went by and before you knew it, AFC had been our home away from home for over two years. My family’s commitment to the church had not faltered, but I was beginning to notice inconsistencies in what was being preached and what was being practiced. At first, I chose to ignore these things because part of the stigma of being Christian is that people assume that Christians have a bloated sense of superiority. They assume that all Christians carry a “holier than thou” complex when in reality, Christians sin almost as much as the next person. I didn’t want to jump to accusations of hypocrisy when I knew that none of us were perfect. We all made mistakes, but what made us different as Christians was the fact that we were humble enough to admit when we were wrong and repent. As more time went on, however, it occured to me that if that was the measure of a Christian, than the founders of AFC had long since parted ways with Christianity. As a teenager, I spent a lot of time being involved with the “End Time Generation” youth group and thats where I first began to notice the little things. The first thing was the constant rotation of youth pastors. There was simply no consistent leadership. Each week a new, nervous member of the congregation would stand before us with a one page outline downloaded from a one size fits all website of acceptable teen messages. And when it wasn’t a cookie-cutter sermon, it was a two hour onpouring of reasons why we as teenagers were not ready to be anything more than faces seen and not heard. It didn’t make any sense to me. I believe the Catholic Church has a saying. Something to the effect of, “Give us a child until he’s five and we’ll give you a Catholic for life.” Even the skiddish people pleasing churches down the road understood that the key to a church’s longevity was the hearts and minds of the young people. At AFC, we were an after thought. We weren’t worth a full time pastor. We weren’t worth consistent leadership. We were worth a few square feet in the back of the receiving garage between tiers of storage.

  165. SG says:

    Even the rotaton of inexperienced weekly teachers weren’t trusted. TC and VL used to hover in the back of our little room. I used to think they were keeping an eye on us but looking back, I realize that they were keeping tabs on the teachers as they taught. TC is an accomplished orator herself, but her messages were all saturated with one underlying theme. Anyone who spoke out against her and her husbands empire, excuse me, AFC, was to be marked as a Jezebel and ostricized from the body. Her and her husband’s teachings were so dogmatic that I’ve seen TC have one of her youth teachers physically escorted out of the room because he strayed from the “approved” two page message. Seeing as how neither of the Cooks would be tied down to any outline, I found this rather strange.

    While this was happening at church, I was beginning to study European history at school. To study the history of Eurasia is to study the rise and fall of despot after dictator, after despot, and the first order of business for any self respecting tyrant was to silence dissenting voices. If I learned one thing throughout that course, it was that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Cooks were one by one excommunicating, if you will, those dissenting voices in their congregation. They were molding AFC into a group of obedient followers who wouldn’t question the doctrines they were taught, however contrived they might be. It seemed dangerous to me, but my family was so wrapped up in the churches success. We couldn’t just leave and I couldn’t speak out for fear of being sharply rebuked and cast out of the “Lord’s protection.” So I kept it all to myself and over time, it took a costly toll on my spirituality. Where before I would carry my bible to school and lie awake at night excited about God’s plan for my life, I would then lie awake at night wondering whether I even believed in God and the things I had been taught all my life. I was an intelligent young man and I would see BC recieve honorary doctorates from Bible Colleges and the same day listen as he conducted an entire fire-breathing sermon based on an absurdly inaccurate break down of one word and it’s meaning. By then, it didn’t matter how way out his messages were because the entire generation was trained to jump, yell, and agree passionately with whatever he spoke without questioning it’s validity. We were sheep. And not the kind described in the Bible as the Lord’s flock. We were the kind being led to the slaughter. We were more like lemmings than anything.

  166. SG says:

    It wasn’t long before I simply couldn’t take it anymore. BC was not infallible and half of what he preached was just plain ridiculous. The fire inside me died. The church was not a spiritual home. It was a three-ring circus with BC as teh spell bounding ringmaster. He wowed his audience with multi-media propaganda, loud contemporary music, and big words that either didn’t exist or he didn’t entirely understand himself. PT Barnum one said, “A sucker is born every minute,” and I didn’t want to be a sucker anymore.

    I forsook my beliefs and left Christianity for several years. I foreswore my parents and set off to make my own way without “God.” Eventually, I dived headfirst into drugs, alcohol, crime and the seedy underworld I was raised to stay out of. It took me years to even get back to the basic tenants of Christianity. During that time, the revelation that BC was alledged to having an affair with a married woman in teh church, even siring illedgitimate children only fueled by apostacy. AFC is a scam. I feel sorry for the weak minded individuals still attending and donating money on the eve of its foreclosure. BC is no better than the televangelists of the 80’s that preyed on the elderly and the simple minded for their social security checks. He is no more a Godly man than Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his extremist cohorts.

    Looking back, I have been able to separate teh Cook’s sin from what I know to be true Christianity, but as a young, impressionable person, their complete lack of faithfulness to the Word of God very nearly convinced me that there wsa no God at all and that all churches were simply franchises designed to sell euphemisms and platitudes to a captive, guilt ridden customer base. I hope that this brief documentation of my experiences and impressions of AFC will help to expose the hypocrisy and criminal like misleadings of the church’s HUMAN founders without taking away from Gods original purpose for us. For God did so love the world, that he gave his only begotten son so what whosoever believed in him would not perish, but have everlasting lfie. (John 3:6)

    And Barry Cook could never take that away from us.

  167. S.K. aka Sabrina says:

    Susan, I know that you think you know how things went when I got pregnant but as an outsider looking in you really have no idea. An yes my mom guided me in the right direction but I made a choice to make decisions contrary to that guidance. And I think it is only an excuse to blame the church. Me and Abe both took personal responsiblilty for our decisions and actions. And what you didnt see was meetings we endured explaining how we ended up in this situation and the rebuke and restoration we received. And our meeting with the youth explaining what had happen and encouraging them to stay faithful to the word of God and keep themselves until marriage. You didnt see the hours of counceling we went through to ensure we were ready to marry and care for a child. In short, you know very little about the process that we went through to prepare ourselves so I think it wrong of you to say you do.

    And again now you are using me and Abe as a excuse for others mistakes. Although me and Abe were the first to get pregnant pre marriage at AFC, that in no way means we encourage any others to do the same. The fact that you would even imply that we would do so is insulting. Peoples choices are just that, THEIR choices. We walked out the results of our decision, we got married, had our child and continued on with our relationship with God and our service in the church. I finish school and took care of my family and home while Abe provided for us. So tell me in what way was I a stumbling block, because I was the first one to get pregnant. And I am not quite sure what you are refering to when you say “take your responsibilites more seriously now.”

    Susan, once one is touched by God, there is no mistaking it. So for you to try and say that its all just me longing for acceptance is purposterous. I am fully reliant on God and Him alone so the opinion of others and weither they accept me is of no relevence. I have been touched by God at AFC and am still being ministered to there. So even if you refuse to believe that God can use AFC, its happening and lives are being changed by the power of God.

    I have repented of those disgressions long ago and God was so faithful to forgive and provide restoration. God is so merciful and His grace if there for anyone who will repent and turn from there wicked ways. So although I have made mistakes, God showed grace and now I am free from the guilt and bondage of that situation.

    As far as my children go, they are blessed and under the protection of God. I can not say what the future holds but I know that I trust the Lord with my entrie life and family and know that he will lead and guide us as parents. So in reguards to your whole sins of the father thing, God is more than able to break all those generations curses from either side of our family.

    AFC has changed very much since you were last a member. Leaders have changed and the was things are handled have changed. So to compare AFC now to the AFC you attended is not accurate! But I trust in God and know he will reveal all in His appointed time, so meanwhile I will continue to serve Him faithfully at AFC and continue bringing souls into the kingdom of God.

    On far different subject, I would love to write to Kenny, please ask him if it is ok to provide me with his address.

    Blessings,

    Sabrina

  168. Shocked says:

    Wow SG, from someone who claims such Christian love, it would appear below the belt to ask SK why should committed sexual sin before she got married.

    I have to be honest, sexual promiscuity is not just held up in one church, I’ve been to plenty of churches where this has happened and it wasn’t because the pastor was in sin.

    How can you call someone out who has clearly repented and devoted their life to God then say if she persists with the nonsense you will have to expound on facts. That almost sounds threatening. I didn’t see a bit of love in that sentence at all.

    If you are going to take the seat of authority against this church, and everyone calls you blessed, then maybe you should walk in it. From the looks of it, the fruit of the church has caused restoration, grace, love, character and identity in at least one person. Is it possible there are more?

    Is it possible the church you used to attend based on all these posts, ceases to exist and that the foreclosure that I have read about is an opportunity to restore? Why is it that you can be grateful for a man’s failure but not for a church’s rebound?

    Did anyone ever tell you that your son was a lost cause? Or how can a child with Christian values grow up to be addicted? Or are you one of the few that never received judgement?

    From your post it almost sounds like you are justifying your sons actions by a pastor, if he didn’t start going to that church until he was 13, certainly his fundamentals and beliefs started from somewhere and it wasn’t the pastor or the church you are talking about.

    Comments?

  169. SG says:

    Good evening friends,

    Wow, this has been a glorious day. We are experiencing an open heaven here at the Guinn family household. The blessings of God are overtaking us and abounding toward us from all directions. I almost want to say, “Enough.” but I won’t…wink…wink…

    I’m sorry but I think I will remain in His presence instead of allowing this obvious onslaught of the spirit of Jezebel to move me out of the presence of God. I cannot come down now….sorry…

    Anyway, my pastor gave us a word of knowledge on Sunday morning and told us in advance that we would experience this hatred…..but he also gave us instruction on what to do when it came….so here is goes

    Father, I ask you to bless Sabrina, Abe and Shocked. Fill their homes with your love and grace. I speak healing, prosperity, and abounding grace into their lives. Father be glorified in all they do. In Jesus’ name…Amen.

    Good night.

  170. Shocked says:

    I expected that type of response. Bravo. Your acting should win you a Grammy.

  171. SG says:

    Remember friends, you can contact me directly anytime.

  172. Non Sense says:

    SG- you got the BKK coming after you… The claws are coming out… hehehehehe…. BKK- Barry Klux Klan… That’s what this non sense is about… They are trying to defend BARRY…. You are all fools for defending that man… FOOLS I say… What kind of man lets his people defend him and he sits back and watches people from all over fight on behalf of his lies? What a coward. Sabrina and Shocked – looks like you guys are Barry’s little messengers, aye?!? or just plain idiots… hehhehehehehe… Please dont comment on behalf of Barry anymore.. Let him stand up for himself for once…

  173. Shocked says:

    The comments were strickly based on what SG said, I don’t belong to the church being posted in this blog. I am just a reader that doesn’t understand why SG is being so nasty. I have nothing to comment on that Pastor, I know nothing about him. I just feel bad for SK and having to be judged again from someone who claims to be such a blessed Christian.

  174. Non Sense says:

    Shocked- then put a sock in it buddy.. you have no room to speak… “as an outsider looking in, you have no clue”…

  175. Shocked says:

    Maybe I don’t know Non Sense, but are you a Christian? The Bible said they would know us by our love.

  176. S.K. aka Sabrina says:

    Shocked, I appreciate you coming to my defense on this subject, it was very nice of you. But having gone to church with Susan for years I clearly expected her to lash out at me when I refused to agree with her negative and destructive opinions. She claims to be doing Gods work but does not show the Love of Christ when one chooses not to agree with her. So I have taken her words for what they are, the words of a overly religous women who is bitter and unforgiving. And so what Susan says or thinks about me pail in comparison to what God said in His word about what He thinks of me.

    And Shocked, I was quite sure she would not comment in return to you because when truth about her lack of love is metioned, it always evokes silence or a change of subject from her. So reguardless of what Susan says and does, God is still on His throne and having His will done in the earth. So I receive much comfort in knowing that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and that His promises for me are yes and amen!

    Blessing!!

    Sabrina aka SK

  177. enough already says:

    All of you need to stop – this is ridiculous.
    When you have walked in each others shoes, ok…
    but until then STOP already!
    Unless you have lived to see the lies at that so-called church (CULT) you have NO idea the mesmerizing that takes place. People believe for years as I did – because of the fear instilled in me and my family of curses and ridiculous crap.
    Suzanne is only trying to bring out the truth – leave her out of this.
    When BC comes forward wiht the truth about his son, Ricky, then lets talk about how you are all going to feel. will it be the same as now?
    to find out your own pastor lied to you for YEARS is a horrible feeling. Please prepare yourselves because your turn is coming soon. We have just walked out the process of healing and some of my family still battles with WHY DID HE DARE LIE TO US after we gave our entire life to this work?
    He is a lying, cult leader who needs to be stopped in his tracks from ever doing this again.
    the close of the church is the beginning of that process and YES it is in God’s hands.
    He won’t be mocked.
    Have a fun day but be prepared for the heartache and know that when you do get ready to go thru it there are those that have gone thru that will help you pick up the pieces as we all have done.

  178. S.K. aka Sabrina says:

    Enough,

    I have personally asked my self what would I do if all the rumors are true, several times. And yes I can admit I would be hurt and probably angry but that does not change the God that I serve. It doesnt mean that AFC is dead or that God has forsaken the still faithful members of AFC. As I have said before, I dont got to church and serve in the body of Christ for anyone but for the Lord, not for Barry or anyone else. So yes it would hurt to be lied to but Barry is not my God so it is only a mere man letting me down, not God.

    Sabrina

  179. S.K. aka Sabrina says:

    Enough, have you stopped to ask yourself, what if the rumors are all lies? What then?

    Sabrina

  180. hey sk says:

    your youth and inexperience is showing here, I know the both of you (SG and SK) and I must say that you ,Sabrina , are WAY out of your league here ……. besides SK this is not about you.

  181. Seeking Truth says:

    600 people it seems have come to the reasonable conclusion that the pastor of AFC is not being truthful to his flock…….

  182. Umm... says:

    I don’t think she ever attempted to make it about her. By the way, it’s not about SG either. It’s been quite implied that those at the church are defending the pastor, and are under control and manipulation of the pastor. It appeared to me that she was offering herself as an example of those who are fully aware of the rumors and situations but still believe God has kept them involved with the church regardless. It was also being insinuated the leadership of this church could not do anything to affect anybody’s life in a positive way towards Christ, again, offering herself as a personal testimony that she has been impacted towards growth in her own relationship with Christ. It’s funny but I saw it in the comments on the news article as well, that when somebody offered a differing opinion that this church may still do well, they were personally attacked as though they didn’t know what they were talking about.

    What would youth have anything to do with it? By youth, are you implying age? Age is nothing. I’ve seen 40 and 50 year olds about as mature as a teenager. And teenagers that are more mature than they should be. I’m not saying anything about SG, so don’t assume I am. Don’t even know how old she is. What league are the playing in? A debate league? Last I checked, Jesus called all of us His church, His bride.

    By the way, I agree with Shocked that the Bible tells us that they know us (Christians) by our love but it’s hard to see love in a lot of what’s being posted by “christians” and this is not directed at any one person, or one side of the issue. Love wouldn’t threaten to put people on blast about “facts” simply because another person offers a differing view. I’ve read a lot from both sides. It appears to me that a long time ago, many people put too much trust in this “man” and not enough in God. And when they saw his humanity, it hurt them. Not to say he’s perfect because I’m sure he’s got issues just like the rest of us, maybe more so, now.

    So, on one side, maybe just leaving it in God’s hands is enough, instead of what seems to be a personal agenda at times. On the other side, seek restoration and keep praying that God will give you clear direction for your next move, with or without a building.

    Don’t expect me to come back to this page. This will be my one and only post here. There’s been enough here for a day’s reading and at times, it hurt just to see the division that’s going on. Scott, I’m sorry you had this happen to your blog and I hope that you can forgive us. God Bless You All!

    God, we bless your awesome and holy name! We pray that your love move through the hearts and lives of all of those involved in this situation. We pray that you will continue to bless this church and the lives connected to it. Let your wonderful presence be with them as they seek and pray for you to move in thier land. Those who have chose to move on, whether for right or wrong, keep them in your hand and move them towards the next step in their life with your destiny set before them. You path is before all of us but it is up to us to choose to walk those steps that have been ordered for all of us. You will be the righteous judge in all of this and you, and you alone, see the hearts of all those involved, and we thank you that you and you alone are the only one who can righteously judge us. Shine light where there is darkness, love with there is hate, peace where there is fear, joy where there is unhappiness, grace where there is condemnation, salvation where there is repentance, restoration where there is destruction, your presence where there is pursuit. We love you above which we can possibly speak or show and know that you love us greater than that! Amen!

  183. Non Sense says:

    Shocked- for your information I am a non believer… People like you keep me this way…… My sister was a member of AFC and I attended AFC on and off for three years… Just because I attended on and off doesnt make me a Christian… So, please dont preach to me buddy… You over here claiming your a christian and yet you attack the one person that is fighting for the TRUTH to come out (thanks SG)… I have seen one too many things with my own eyes and my sister was highly active in the church… Which means so know a lot more than I do… So, back off… Like I said you have no room to speak….

  184. SG says:

    If you have any questions or comments for me directly, you can contact me directly at 760.622.9976. I will be happy to answer your questions.

    Scott, thank you for allowing this process to take place. Without this public forum, the lies and ongoing deception would have been buried forever. The truth is being brought to the light. I know the process isn’t pretty and can sometimes seem “nasty,” but most of the individuals here on BOTH sides are God fearing and loving people. Unfortunately the pastor at AFC would never have allowed any group discussion about this matter. Anyone who ever brought it up was treated with zealous contempt. And because he continues to not allow anyone to address him directly, we are left with no other choice. And as you can see, the defenders refuse to meet with others who KNOW the accusations of ministerial misconduct are true. They come on the blog in a desperate attempt to offset the allegations, but refuse to meet with the people that they’ve “known” for years. Right now, restoration is not being saught out by AFC. They are only available for retaliation. It is expected, but very unproductive. As you can see, it is not getting the church anywhere.

    We’re still in the red people.

  185. GOD'S WORD says:

    Romans 12:9-21 (should help us all out on what to do in this) Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s people who are in need. Pratice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    I am not a member of AFC but have been there many times (God forgive all those who have sinned against you at AFC and place it in their heart to repent if they have not done so already) I my self did make the same mistakes as Barry Cook and Carolyn God has forgiven me and so has my husband i have repented and turned away from my sin and both my husband and myself are being restored by his mercy and grace i have learned from my mistakes and a stronger child of God now.

    We must stop fighting each other we do not fight against flesh and blood but against the evil one in high places satin has done his job here its up to us to stop him not each other we must remember we are all one body and must work together to defeat this domonic spirit that is taking down what God has put up Barry was once a true man of God who needs God’s love through us to help him return to the high calling. satin came after this man because all the truth he lived for God and satin knows if he can take out who is in charge then he dosnt even have to worry about any one under who is in charge (you take out the shepard and the sheep will scatter as 600 has) I love the Lord and what satin made for evil God will make for good. watch and see what the Lord will do with this…….. Blessings to the kingdom blessings to Terry, Vince, and Ricky

  186. okay says:

    and non sense, i think ur on the outside looking in, as well…….. simply because ur sister attended and was active doesn’t mean u know the whole story……… there’s always 2 sides 2 every story.

    also, since claiming 2 be a non believer, u wouldn’t fully understand how god would require us 2 handle specific circumstances, such as these…….. i’m sorry that u feel that people like shocked keep u in that position but all shocked did was ask SG why she would make personal attacks on SK, instead of doing what God asks all christians 2 do and that’s 2 show love, which shocked didn’t feel SG was doing, at all……….. if anybody has pushed towards the non christian way 2 respond, I think it would have been SG in this instance……. just my opinion, though.

  187. here you go says:

    here’s a 12-step program for you that someone posted on topix.net listed as Foreclosure Woes Hit North County Church:

    Recipe for Disaster
    1. Senior Pastor sleeps with Associate Pastors wife (Hispanic)
    2. Associate Pastors wife becomes pregnant.
    3. Baby is born (blond hair with blue eyes)
    4. Associate Pastor questions fatherhood.
    5. Associate Pastor divorces church-employed spouse.
    6. Senior Pastor publicly smears departed Pastor from the
    pulpit on 3/5/2006.
    7. Church members begin to question motive and request DNA.
    8. Childs mother stays on payroll and is ‘restored’ to pulpit
    duties by Senior Pastor.
    9. Finally junior leaders request DNA test from Senior Pastor.
    to quelch rumors and mass exodus of church members.
    10. Senior Pastor remains aloof, withdraws from contact with
    non-leadership members of the congregation.
    11. People leave and take their tithes & offerings with them.
    12. Church goes into foreclosure because of PRIDE.

  188. In His Prescence says:

    Okay, where do I begin???All I know is this, I was a leader at AFC for over 9 years. I got to see a lot of the “behind the scene” action. I cannot believe I was “bewitched” by Barry for all of those years. He manipulated me by making himself look like a “poor victim” and how everyone out there was out there to get him. I also was one to defend him and AFC. But praise be to God who always gives me victory -He finally opened my eyes.
    Carolyn (I do pray salvation for her soul), she did not just hurt herself, ex husband, and innocent Ricky, but she also hurt a multitude of people. She too will be held accountable by God -she did not show any fruit of repentance. She is out of AFC, but will not be surprised that she is still in connection with Barry. I would not be surprised if Barry leaves O’side and takes Carolyn with her. On this one, I do feel sorry for Carolyn because she does not know what kind of a “master manipulator” that he is. And boy, if they do ever end up together -Carolyn get ready for the ride of your life! Don’t think he’ll treat you any different than he did Terri. Only time will tell.
    Anyway, back to what I was saying…What I am writing is not slander…it is FACTS. I did see Barry countless times with Carolyn in his office and doors shut for hours -his armor bearers (like dorks) standing outside the door just waiting for them to get done -sometimes it was hours… To the common eye looker, it was very obvious that she was a favorite of his -since he so much defended her. But let me say this to all the men left at AFC, you better keep an eye on your wives with Barry around (he does have a history of being a womanizer -not just with Carolyn).
    One more thing…does anyone know if Brian Buffini knows that his name is being defamed by Barry & Carolyn, saying that Brian is the father of Ricky? If so, that can be a big lawsuit if he is not -and it can also be a juicy story if it is true. Does anyone know??? I was just wandering…
    Hal & Suzanne, I know that you are fighting the good fight of faith! Continue to Press On for the mark of the High Calling! You are a pioneer in this and I recognize that your heart’s desire is to see freedom come to North County! I thank you for standing up for truth. You are truly a woman of God and no matter what anyone else says, I got a chance to speak to you a couple of times and I can definitely see Christ in you! Blessings. It was good running into you a couple of times in the last month! =)

  189. Non Sense says:

    okay- Like I said my sister was an active member of AFC and I was attending on and off for over a three year period… It’s a long enough time to see and know what’s going on behind doors… And dont sit there and say because I am a non believer I dont know how to handle these things…. Besides, this has been going on for years and years and yet you dont have a resolution to the circumstance at hand… This is only because Barry is living a lie with Carolyn… Need a resolution to this circumstance, Ill give you one- Tell Barry to take a DNA test…

  190. SG says:

    To God’s word: Thank you for the scripture and your transparency. I am so thankful to hear that you and your husband are being restored. I know several couples who were at AFC for years who are now divorced. They didn’t make it. There were a few couples who had affairs on each other yet because of their honesty to each other they are still together.

    I have to ask, since you brought it up, when did the retoration begin? Was it at the point of confession and a promise to turn away from the sin (repentance)? From there did you talk it out….maybe even shouted it out? Once the foundation of truth or trust was repaired (no matter how hard the truth was to hear) were you able to move forward in the grace of God?

    You see friends there is no majic wand to make it all disappear. There is a process to restoration and it starts with telling the truth. The initial shock can be very uncomfortable and cause a lot of “drama” however the people involved can now either work out the problems that caused the infidelity and move forward or decide another direction. Either way, as long as someone is being lied to no REAL restoration can take place.

    This is even true of salvation. First we have to admit that we are a sinner in need of a Savior, repent of our sins and then believe God by faith that we are saved through Grace. The unmerited favor of God comes and reconciles us with the Father. It all started with confession. Grace is there whether we confess or not, but Grace is manifested through the initial confession.

    If BC had a real revelation of Grace he would not be in the situation he is in now. Grace would have manifested itself in this situation through the confession of truth. Grace is still there….. just waiting…………………

  191. GOD'S WORD says:

    To SG yes it was at the point of confession and repentace (turning away from that sin) that I was free and able to be restored back to God’s promises for my and my family life. I also have a high calling on my life that satan has tried to keep me from walking in. But no weapon that is formed against me will prosper and the gates of hell shell not prevail. I see the big picture here satan coming against the KINGDOM OF GOD and God’s people. I do not know Berry’s conversation with God when God is alone with him, I know that in the same Adam and Eve when sinned they hid from God instead of steping out and saying here I am God please restore me. When we fall (when not if) because its all a matter of time that we all will fall short, but when we fall we dont hid from God but face him face to face. So yes it I did have to talk it out with God and my husband I had to do what ever it took. I does start with the TRUTH it sets you free, thats only step one you do have to face all the consequences for all the lies and the hurt that you caused the ones that love you. To Carolyn I have walked in your shoes and betrayed my husband a true man of God in the same I beleave Pastor Vince was please tell the true for all the souls that are involved. I feel your pain and know how hard it is I do not throw stones but receive you with Love and open arms Im sorry the evil one has sifted you and told you that is better that you didnt tell the truth but that is a lie and it only comes from the father of all lies satan him self. I love you Carolyn with an agape love, be free and return to your first love Christ the Lord. You are the head and not the tail above and not beneath take your rightful places back from the true enemy satan the accuser of the brotherin.
    God’s Love to all who is seeking his face.

  192. Henry says:

    Wow! It’s amazing how vindictiveness, name calling, and blame is being use so successfully among Christians to destroy each other. The enemy must be SO PROUD!

    I also noticed how some have avoided addressing real biblical scriptures regarding love and restoration by posting sly comments, listing their phone number for people to call so that valid and different biblical exhortation cannot be seen, changing the subject altogether, outright personal attacks and character assassination, addressing only the portion of a statement that they find favorable while avoiding others, reciting slanders orginally posted in order to keep the argument going and out right avoidance. THE DEVIL MUST BE SO PROUD!!!! He is the accuser of the brethren and we are doing his job for him.

    This scripture, outlines how this thing works the best:

    Acts 6:11-14
    11 Then they secretly induced men to say, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.”12 And they stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; and they came upon him, seized him, and brought him to the council.13 They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous words against this holy place and the law;14 “for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”

    We should not be surprise. This is nothing new!

  193. That's Right Henry! says:

    That’s Right Henry!

    We need to do our jobs as Christians and help to recover and reconcile that which is/was lost and to push for a better end so it does not happen again. God is a God of chances but people are deceitful and a brood of vipers. I have compassion for all parties involved including those on here that profess to be Christians but do not display the love that Christians are to be known by. Allow Love (charity) to be the guide not what has happened in the past. Yes learn from your past but move on and let it be.

  194. Way to Go North County! says:

    Now this feels like some Christians are coming forth. You go North County! Stop this long history of… leadership growing to a certain place… humanity shows itself… the people take up the enemies work. Then another cycle repeats itself! Maybe you guys should prepare a plan to move through this type of situation. It is a territorial stronghold. He was a reformer who got a demonic strategy worked against him. You who know him also know this fact! How many more before you respond in love, mercy and forgiveness. Do something different it DOES take all that!!! Pastors and leadership are hurting around here…walk in grace and faith…forgive and fight forward AFC…Pastor Barry…and Christians all over the county!

  195. Stay True says:

    To- Way to go North County, Henry, and That’s right Henry

    We really dont need chocolate covering over the truth… Thanks!

  196. To Stay True Says says:

    The heart and motive of truth is sweet on it own – no chocolate required.

    the woman caught in adultery – the law said kill her – Jesus (the truth) said Go and sin no more

    the paralyzed man – the law said you are sinful – Jesus (the truth) said your sins are forgiven you – rise up and walk

    the woman at the well – the law said she should not even be spoken to (after all she was a divorcee (5 husbands) and adulterer & fornicator (the man she was with was not her husband) – Jesus (the truth) said if you ask of me I will give you living water

    TRUTH – HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!!

  197. Seeking Truth says:

    Somebody please help me, I have been trying to find the scriptures where God said that it is ok to sleep with another mans wife,divorce your own wife because you were “stressed”, drive your church into forclosure,lie to your congregation, drive 600 people out the door and do nothing to try to stop the exodus, sit back and do nothing while the remaining few loyalists become the laughing stock of the christian community……..I have been looking through my Bible for days now but I cant seem to locate chapter and verse.

    To AFC It is not the world that is judging ……it is the CHURCH

    Nobody is condeming Barry Cook to hell…..we ALL desire restoration but we all know that it will never come untill the TRUTH is told.

  198. To Seeking the Truth says:

    I noticed that you did not address the scriptures given by “To Stay True”. If ind this usually happens when people want to leap over scriptures that they do not like in order to make their point. It no wonder you can’t find scriptures then to support your cause.

    Let see all the things you stated as fact that are assumptions:
    1. Sleeps with another man wife – unless you were in the room that would have to be assumption.
    2. Drive your church into foreclosure – yes the church is in foreclosure but “drive” would definitely be an assumption.
    3. Lie to your congregation – since no transcripts were provided to validate this then it would have to be classified as assumption.
    4. Drive 600 people away – unless you spoke to each and everyone of these people you would have no idea why they left – again assumption. And see my above comment about “drive” – again assumption.
    5. And do nothing to stop the exodus – you do not know what was done as you are not part of the leadership at AFC – so you would only be guessing and even your best guess would still be an assumption.
    6. A few loyalist becoming the laughing stock – wow that’s a mass generaliztion – there are over 300 regular loyalist attending. Not to mention 5 churhes in this city and at least 7 churches throughout this nation – now we are in the 1000’s standing for and with AFC. Again, that statment although low and obviously intended to intimidate is also an assumption. There is more for AFC than against.
    7. “Judging…it is the Church – AFC has not received one judgement by a church or a pastor only calls of support. Some have given offering and have come to prayer times to offer support. So, again, the church judinging AFC is definitely a mass generalized assumption.

    And, again, I would like to direct your attention to the aforementioned scriptures. And, 1 Corinthians 13 is good as well.

  199. Seeking Truth says:

    Yet, here we are!!! You’re the same assumption poster that got rebuked on the NC times blog by the staff writer aren’t you? You couldn’t find a forum there so here you are preaching your same rhetoric about assumptions. Well it wasn’t received there and it is not received here…except for those obvious BC worshippers!! Remember this….”I think you have a weird spirit and that you are nasty… is that slander??”

    I thing those that post only and don’t agree to meet in person do so because they can’t look people in the eye when they make their statements. They can face their monitor but not the people they are trying to control. SG did not limit her invite to a phone call and/or email. She is willing to meet in public face to face. She is the one with real courage.

  200. SG says:

    Well praise be to God….AFC is finally talking about this ordeal. Even though the real issues are being avoided as usual…at least we are in the same room together…well sort of.

    Hey everyone….some of you know where I live because you’ve been to my house on several occassions. ..I invite the whole group to come over this weekend so we can sit down face to face and discuss these issues. You have my number and email. I’m happy to facilitate this meeting of the hearts…..

    Give us a call and we’ll do it on Saturday. 760.622.9976

  201. SG says:

    To God’s Word: I really really appreciate your superb honesty. Beautiful stuff!!! I believe God is going to utilize your testimony of true restoration for his glory. Your bravery is tremendous. Abundant blessings to you and yours!!

  202. Re: Seeking the Truth Says says:

    Wow,

    I am not the person you are referring to but if I was would you attack me as you are them. Obviously, 1 Corinthains 13, was not read because if it was the approach would have probably been different. Again, no sound doctrine scripturally offered on your part only more accussation.

    Perhaps we can give the devil a vacation. He use to be known as the accuser of the brethren. I think others have taken his place.

    But so, it is easy for you this time, here’s the scripture:

    1 Corinthians 13:4-8
    4 Love suffers long and is kind;
    love does not envy;
    love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
    5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own,
    is not provoked,
    thinks no evil;
    6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
    7 bears all things,
    believes all things,
    hopes all things, endures all things.
    8 Love never fails.

    Homework: Read 1 Corinthians 5:14-20, Galatians 5:22-23

  203. SG says:

    Terrific scripture: 1 Cor 13, 1 Cor 5:14-20, and Gal. 5:22-23, but then again aren’t they all. Now if WE can all align our intentions for posting the word with the actual scriptures being used, that would be great.

    Okay, gotta go eat dinner with my beautiful husband. We’ll be at Davina’s off of Mission next to the Yum Yum donuts if you wanna come. They have the best Mexican food in OS.

  204. For Alignment says:

    Excellent,

    Let’s aligned ourselves with the word.

    When I think of AFC, BC, its leaders and members these scriptures come to mind.

    1 Corinthians 4:8-13
    8 You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!9 For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored!11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless.12 And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure;13 being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.

    2 Corinthians 4:7-13
    7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.8 We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed—10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.12 So then death is working in us, but life in you.13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak,

  205. SG says:

    Yes, I agree, but you forgot to mention the people who are no longer members of AFC. Don’t forget to bless them as well.

    However we still want to meet with Barry Cook and ask him some questions directly. We hope his heart will be open to telling us all the truth.

    BTW, dinner was fabulous!

  206. JM says:

    Henry and To Seeking Truth, I think you hit the nail on the head with avoiding responding to certain questions and avoiding them with other FLUFFY words. This is tiring though. It’s gonna keep going on for quite some time unless somebody calls a halt to it. And no, not because of the accusations that are coming out because they’ve been out there for years. Just because we should be one Body, not divided like this. I’m sure Jesus is sitting at next to God really smiling about this blog conversation, right? I feel like I’m gonna get attacked just for saying this but whatever makes you feel better about yourselves. I know how to turn my cheek, just like my Word instructs me to. God bless all of you!

  207. SG says:

    Hi JM….

    I really don’t think this “conversation” upsets Jesus very much at all. Remember He slept right thru the storm. In other words, this is just a conversation. I really don’t feel divided from anyone. I certainly do not have an “us against them mentality. ” Sure, there are two different schools of thought being expressed in this dialogue, but no one is threatening anyone and no one is going to loose control of themselves…right? Seriously, I hope you hear my heart and I am not attacking anyone. This is the first time in many years that this group of people have had an honest conversation about this situation. Correct me if I’m wrong friends, but does anyone out there really “hate” your brothers and sisters who are speaking up on both sides of this issue (so to speak)? I know I don’t hate anyone. Jesus can judge each of our hearts and let us know if anyone is in doubt about themselves. Christians are too afraid of confrontation because some realize that their souls are not fully capable of handling the emotional part of us. So we just walk away. Personally, I am not afraid of a single person on this blog or any other. Sure in person they might express a little or maybe even a lot of emotion because of what is at stake both personally and corporately in the kingdom. But I am confident that no one would do anything to cause serious harm to anyone. These folks, including myself, are God fearing and loving people. I do not blame a single person on this blog for any of this…..the responsibility sits on one man’s shoulders and if given the opportunity, I will address him personally. However, that does not mean I hate him or that I don’t believe in the power of grace and restoration. I believe in it completely. The reason I feel “entitled” to speak to him face to face is because I love him and I am not afraid of him because I believe he loves us too. I just want him to look me in the eye and tell me the truth and trust that I have enought God in me to want the absolute best for him. I am not an enabler. For all the years that I’ve known BC, he was never an enabler either until this fall.

    Barry, it is time now to trust in the Lord. Come before the family and tell us the truth. 600 people are waiting for that and only that. No one WANTS to see your demise. We fear that you are doing this to yourself and we fear that you will take many along with you if you don’t repent. We did not WANT to disassociate with YOU but we had to disassociate with the sin. Please Barry do the right thing. You’re strong enough. Anyway, where you are weak, God will give you GRACE and so will we. Why? Because we love you….a lot…………………

  208. SG says:

    Okay, Saturday night at 7:00 pm. My place, email for directions guinnfamily@cox.net

    Just show up and bring a friend. We’ll be here. Somebody invite Barry to come too. He is welcome.

  209. To SG: says:

    All that sounds good…thougts….conjectures…..interpretations.

    How about the word of God….

    ….SCRIPTURES ANYONE!

  210. Still Standing says:

    1 Cor.5:12-13- “It isn’t my responsibilty to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibilty to judge those inside the church who are sinning.13God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.” Please don’t ignore this scripture. God never called us to be blind or ingnorant. 7 of my own family members died in the Jim Jones tragedy. When my Aunt was contemplating whether or not to drink the kool-aid, I can only imagine those “religious” ones around her misqouting such scriptures as,”Don’t judge”, or, “He who is without sin”, or “They will know us by our love”. All of those scriptures have there place, but it’s not here. The truth is BC’s actions caused much hurt to the Kingdom of God and his own ministry. Can you imagine if true repentance came to this man? God only knows the restoration that would take place. And who knows? Maybe all the scattered sheep would return.
    Oh, Do I need to verify my credentials, My Family and I attended AFC for 7 years, were leaders, and watched the ministry rise and then fall after a series of events transpired. God can and wants to restore but there are no short cuts!!

    See Ya Saturday SG!!

  211. Grace & Peace says:

    Grace and Peace my sisters and brothers. It is truly UGLY what Im reading on here. But then again, it is true that the TRUTH is not always beautiful… It breaks my heart to see the people of God fight on here… As Grown Adults and Christians, we should take up SG’s offer and meet at her place this Saturday…. We shouldn’t look at this as a get together to FIGHT… No! We should come together to Pray… Come together to HEAL, to forgive, to UNDERSTAND and ENCOURAGE one another…… This is exactly where the Enemy wants the People of God to do… FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT… But why are we Fighting, if we serve the same God?? I know I serve a mighty God…I serve an Awesome God, who is loving and forgiving…. Yes! Thank you Jesus…

    You see my brothers and sisters, we are living in end times and we shouldnt give the ENEMY any reason to get a hold of our minds and our hearts… You see I have forgiven BC for everything I saw and everything I heard… Got to admit that I was really hurt by it… But at one point, I had to learn FORGIVENESS… it was a challenging trial but God showed me a way… Because He doesnt put you in situations that you cant handle… God just wants to see if you can Trust Him enough and have Him take control of your situations… and I did with this one… And I have to tell you, it felt really great being set free from all that…

    All Im saying is, the UGLINESS of this ordeal is spreading all over.. Check out the link at North County Times… It has 196 comments already… I wont be surprise if it reaches 250 in the next hour or so… You see, people all over the county knows about this and it shouldnt be this way… See link below:

    http://nctimes.com/articles/2008/04/29/news/coastal/oceanside/nct24d2152364bf7fe9882574390066f.txt

    SG- I really admire the woman in you… Because you are truly a woman of God… My prayer and Hope is that everyone will accept that just because you have a different opinion as well as the many others who stand with you, doesnt make you the enemy. I really think that God blessed you with the courage and fire to come forth this way….. And by the way, thanks for offering your home as a place to meet…

    C’mon everyone, lets get together… Because this is not just on this blog or north county times… Its all over the place… I had a lady at work asked me about AFC… I told her that I was no longer a member of AFC and she continued by saying that the Pastor and ex- Co-Pastor’s wife and blah, blah, blah……. I just stopped her and told her that I didnt want to hear it… And this is not the first time I was approached by this… Even my hair dresser asked me the same thing… I just mind my business and didnt comment on any remarks, but I did however asked her to not mention that situation again…… So, you see this mess is all over… The TRUTH will be revealed but in God’s timing not anyone’s… So, Let’s get together and STOP the enemy before its gets too far… We should all continue to pray for AFC and the congregation as well as BC… Some of you might think it’s too late… But it’s always better LATE than NEVER….

    Grace and Peace and God’s Blessings to all!!

  212. Days says:

    This is better than Days of Our Lives… I got front row seats to members and ex-members attacking and/or defending the pastor… this will make a great movie… Lies, Sex, and War (warfare). This is absolutely RIDICULOUS…

  213. Grace & Peace says:

    TO DAYS:

    My dear sister/brohter- I invite you to join everyone at SG’s house on Saturday. There you can get a front row seat to Forgiveness and hopefully deliverance. I say this with love and concern that you are just on this blog adding fuel to the fire.

    Grace and Peace my friend.

  214. SG says:

    To To SG: Come over on Saturday night and you will see the demonstration of God’s word. We are doing more than talking the talk my friend, we are living epistles…..walking the walk. Be blessed and I hope to see EVERYONE on Saturday. You’ll recognize the house……the love of God will lead the way.

    Be blessed my dear and cherished family of God.

    Grace and peace, right back atcha!

  215. Still Standing says:

    to Grace and Peace: Isn’t it sad that some church folk aren’t real enough to come together and reason out the scriptures and attempt to bring restoration to the body. The enemy would love for us to walk around like stafford christians and pretend we don’t see and smell anything wrong and let the enemy destroy us. Some of us won’t sit around and let that happen. Hopefully there is enough GRACE for us to come together, and God forbid if we settle for false PEACE.

  216. Days says:

    Grace & Peace- read for yourself.. i dont need deliverance… Tell that to the pastor of AFC…

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20080509-9999-1n9church.html

  217. Days says:

    Grace & Peace – dont take it the wrong way… I meant to say that the Pastor of AFC needs deliverance and read the link above…it’s all over the Papers today. sad sad story.

  218. Humbled by Jesus says:

    So if the ex husband VL doesn’t believe its BC’s kid, and the wife CL says it isn’t, why is he still being persecuted? If VC was that upset, wouldn’t this be the perfect opportunity to get the truth out? When the reporter calls and he is up north and doesn’t have to face the people in Oside, wouldn’t he tell them the truth? And why would the reporter lie and say VC didn’t think it was BC’s?

    Everyone else on here seems to think BC is the father except for the people involved? This doesn’t make sense.

    I wonder if the wave will shift, meaning, I wonder if now that people can’t shame BC for being the father of an illigitimate child that now they will start making up other accusations just to prove they are still right in their wanting to see him fail.

    It’s surprising that SG says “we love you” to BC but in so many of the posts, there is no grace, no love, no restoration. Shouldn’t love be seen in everything? Not just when you feel like it? The attack on SK was unwarranted and then when challenged, all of a sudden SG “can’t come down” because open heaven is in their home.

    I wonder what would happen if he took the DNA test and it shows he is not the father….what would people do then? What accusation would they use to justify their actions?

    The power of life and death is in the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Proverbs 18:21

    I wonder what fruit some of these people will be eating in the upcoming months.

    If people are going to accuse, at least be humble enough to admit that there is a slight chance you could be wrong. And if so, what recourse do you have? I see you pointing the finger at someone saying, “He is guilty and he needs to repent.” But what if the one pointing the finger is really the one who is wrong? Why aren’t you measured by the same grace?

    Are we not all pastors and preachers to our families? Surely if SG is going to preach to all the people on this blog and talk to “so many” of the people at AFC, then shouldn’t you be held to the same standards as a pastor at a church? Or are the rules different because you aren’t at a pulpit? Seems to me this blog is your pulpit.

    It’s just a question, please don’t attack me as I have seen you do on here to prove you are right and BC is wrong. It’s just a thought. And I am sure it would be easy for you to accuse me of being one of those “AFCer’s” trying to “cover up” something. Surely, anything that was at one time being covered up is not any more. Don’t judge because you think you know who I am, just answer the questions.

  219. In His Presence says:

    Okay, let’s just say that Barry is not the father, then could it be true that it was Carolyn’s ex boss, before she started working @ AFC? I wonder if Brian Buffini knows???

  220. In His Presence says:

    I also wonder if Vince was reached and not just “quoted” by someone else. I hope they get their facts straight.

  221. Grace & Peace says:

    To: Humbled by Jesus

    “I wonder what fruit some of these people will be eating in the upcoming months,” and “this blog is your pulpit” are not very christlike things to say… Remember, the devil is not far from anyone’s heart… The enemy is laughing because we are doing one thing that kills trust, and love– twisting and paraphrasing words to skew each others minds…You are welcome to join us at SG’s home tomorrow.

    SG has a point and you have a point… No one is right or wrong. SG accusing BC is no different from what you have just said in your previous posting… Got to admit that SG has said some things that were pretty hard but this is only because everyone is fighting her. And same goes for SG… Do you think this blog would carry on if everyone didnt respond? I think we’ve all done our fair share….

    Like I have mentioned in my previous postings, why are we wasting time fighting… We should find a way to bring Peace to this situation… We need to focus on Jeus and He will bring peace to the situation (Isaiah 26:3) …. Focus on Jesus not SG and not BC…. yes, the issues at hand might involve BC, CL, VL, TC, and whoever, but we’re losing focus on who really has the answer — Jesus!

    So, come one come all to SG’s home… I know that she will welcome us with love…

    Grace and Peace to all!

  222. Humbled by Jesus says:

    A pulpit could be any forum that a person preaches. A blog, a stage, a room, a phone. It was not meant to be anything other than what it looks like. And I do wonder what fruit people will be partaking from in the upcoming months. That isn’t “unChrist like” its pure curiosity and thought provoking. I include myself in all these statements. Just thought I’d clarify that.

  223. Grace & Peace says:

    Humbled by Jesus-

    Dont you know curiousity kills the cat?

  224. Grace & Peace says:

    To Humbled by Jesus:

    “Are we not all pastors and preachers to our families? Surely if SG is going to preach to all the people on this blog and talk to “so many” of the people at AFC, then shouldn’t you be held to the same standards as a pastor at a church? Or are the rules different because you aren’t at a pulpit? Seems to me this blog is your pulpit.”

    Read the above statement ten times and tell me that you didnt write this with anger in your heart…. I understand what a pulpit is…. And it is very clear that you just wanted to make a point to SG. but is it really worth it? Lately, I havent seen SG writing anything because she’s invited everyone to come over to her place… This is a great opportunity to come together and unite as we should be… Because we are God’s children. So, I encourage you, SG, and the many others to stop this non sense… It is just pure UGLY….

  225. Just a Thought! says:

    Thank you Grace and peace for that link to the union tribune today… Just wondering, was it really Vince Limon they quoted saying He thinks Barry is not the Father? Sometimes the media be making up stuff… And why is it that when someone wants to know the TRUTH about what Happened, they are being attacked? Even if they ask about getting a DNA test? Everyone talks about SG attacking the AFC congregation and BC… But yet they all do the same thing to SG… I dont get that!!

    Mr Humble – what if Barry is the Father? “I wonder what fruit you and the many others will be eating in the upcoming months,” I know one thing for sure, that Terri didnt leave because of the stress on the building, or stress on finances…. Terri is a woman of the WORD and her faith in the Lord is much stronger to stand those tests… She left because her husband committed adultery and that is the only reason she would leave… and that’s the Truth… wether you like it or not. Sorry- didnt mean to rain on your parade…

    SG- Keep fighting the good fight sister…. There are so many of us standing with you… The Truth will come out, one way or the other…

  226. Grace & Peace says:

    To Just a thought-

    My sister/brother- 2 things

    1. I never posted a union tribune link on this blog… Please check your sources…

    2. Come to SG’s home tomorrow… And please stop posting negative things about each other… Rather it’s true or not… The meeting at SG’s will be a great opportunity to let all this out and come together as the Children of God….

    I would greatly appreciated if you correct the name that posted the union tribune link on here, because I am not part of that…

    Thank you so much and have a bless day!

  227. Grace & Peace says:

    To Just a thought-

    My sister/brother- 2 things

    1. I never posted a union tribune link on this blog… Please check your sources…

    2. Come to SG’s home tomorrow… And please stop posting negative things about each other… Whether it’s true or not… The meeting at SG’s will be a great opportunity to let all this out and come together as the Children of God….

    I would greatly appreciated if you correct the name that posted the union tribune link on here, because I am not part of that…

    Thank you so much and have a bless day!

  228. Just a Thought! says:

    Grace & Peace, Im sorry about that… I skip through things fast… I take it back… Thank you Days for posting the Link… Sorry Grace & Peace…

  229. SG says:

    Okay everybody….I know the recent article has got everybody in an uproar. We all have questions and the answer lies in one single simple test. Barry, will you please take the test? If you cared about the flock, you would put an end to all this…..please?

    I noticed that BC used the word I in his statements at least 8 times. There was no mention of regret, remorse, or sorrow for the 600 people who have left AFC. All the “pity” was for himself. This lack of concern for the body is really what has everybody mad at everybody else. Sure it is easy to “attack” the people speaking out because I or we are accessible. I’m sure that a lot of what is being said “at” me is really transferred frustrations coming from the fact that no real answers are being provided by the individual who needs to speak up. The reality is that 600 people believed that Cook is the father of Ricky. The older Ricky gets, the harder it is to deny the obvious. Vince has spoken to several people and shared with them that he does “believe” Ricky is Barry’s. He probably wasn’t sure what would be printed in the article and he doesn’t want to say the wrong thing. Vince doesn’t “know” that Ricky is Barry’s because Barry wouldn’t take a DNA test when Vince asked. Im sure Vince did not know what would be printed so he played it safe.

    That is my observation. You don’t have to agree. But I don’t believe Sandi would have wrote an article is she didn’t believe in the merits of the situation. She is not a gossip columnist. She is a professional writer since the 70’s and her experience probably told her that there is more to the story than what AFC leaders are telling her. She did her duty to advise the public. Now it is up to us to respond publicily in a way that will bring resolution.

    Please avail yourself to the meeting at my house on Saturday. I will speak for myself regarding any questions you have for me directly. But I won’t allow anyone to put the focus off of the real reason we are all here. I am not about nonsence and I don’t plan on shrinking back because of any preconceived familiarities.

    You are all welcome guests who will be encouraged to speak up without fear of retaliation or intimidation or ungodly control and manipulation. We’ll do all things decently and in order, but their will be no box. Come to serve and to be served in humility and in the honor of the Lord. There will be no usurping of another and no presumed lording over. Period

    Just come and be ready to love and to be loved.

    God Bless you,

  230. Glory is the Lord's! says:

    Crazy stuff… One comment made 2 contradict what u believe and u attack it’s validity… VL stating that he does not believe BC is the father… which is not the first time I’ve heard this… I’m sure if BC took the test and it came out negative… u’d attack the test’s validity.

  231. SG says:

    No, I did not “attack” anything. I gave an observation. And so did another on this blog and on the SD Trib blog. The question came up and I responded.

    This is what I was refering to in my previous comment about ungodly control and manipulation. No matter how aggressive you decide to get, you will not usurp another persons beliefs. People at my house will be allowed to speak and to respond without fear of retaliation.

    Please come if you think you can play nice with others.

    I’ve got things to take care of. So I won’t be blogging anymore tonight.

    Hal and I love you family. We hope to see you soon.

  232. To SG says:

    SG, judging by the close proximity in time between your post and Glory is the Lord’s, I think he/she was not referring to your post, but the post where it mentioned whether or not VL actually said it and that they should check their sources. I’m sure she would not have printed it if she did not in fact believe that VL said it, though.

  233. SG says:

    Yeah, I believe he said it alright…..just not sure why he says one thing to some people and another to other people….I should probably call him myself and ask him….

    Sandi did an excellent job with the article. I don’t believe she misquoted anyone.

    To In His Presence: It sounds like you’re wondering this same thing…..did he say something completely opposite to you? You were a leader for so many years. Do you believe Ricky is Cook’s son?

    Good night.

  234. SG says:

    To In His Presence: Please come tonight and prepare the way for deliverance. It is time to set the captives free. Bring the word of the Lord….the Bread of Life…

  235. HG says:

    Taken from the Union Tribune Article from yesterday: In 2005, the same year Ambassador moved into its new two-story home, Carolyn Limon, a church office worker, filed for divorce from Vincent Limon, a former assistant minister. According to court records, a paternity test revealed that Limon was not the father of the couple’s young child.

    Wow, if the court records are true, why did BC bash VL from the pulpit on 3/5/06 so bad and more importantly how and why would CL sit there and allow it to happen with out standing up and saying she was responsible for her husband leaving her. BC said that VL left his wife and children several times during that sermon, I believe he knew at that time that Ricky was not VLs’ child and now we all know that CL knew it also.

    Proves to me that BC and CL had something between them that does not fit into any category of ‘spiritual covering’ in my book. Why would this pastor bash the male in the family for leaving and coddle the female without balancing out the story with her indescretions, if he was going to tell it publicly at all. BC told this as if CL was a victim of heartless no-good husband.

    How devastating it must have been for VL to read the results from this paternity test, that the child his wife carried inside of her body for nine months, went through the pains of child birth with, a child he held in his hands, loved on, supported and cared for was from the seed of another man. A lot of men I know may have done more than just leave her. BC may not be the father but one thing is for sure, he don’t want to take the chance of proving that he is! He may not be the biological father of her child but he at least participated with CL in the cover-up of her adultery, the real reason her husband left her and the smear campaign of VL’s character and career.

    This reporter did an excellent job of pulling back the curtain and exposing more of the truth. SG much love to you and your entire family, please keep us informed on the progress and release of your son’s book. I’m informing and taking pre-orders for my family and friends back here in the midwest already. You keep standing!

  236. da truth says:

    VL was never reached by the media read the article. Someone gave the reporter tha info. I have spoken to vl regarding the baby and he seems to think is barry’s. The Baby was concieved while VL, TC, an a group of ohters were on a mission trip to Jamaica. While BC an Carolyn where all left to their lonesome. Why is it Barry and Carolyn have been seen in parking lots alone, Why is they have been seen getting out of a Limo together on there way to North Caorlina. Who paid for the Limo and the trip. The Church? Come on the writings on the wall

  237. in his presence says:

    To SG
    Barry specificly told me that he was not the father of Ricky -he also told me that VL also said that BC was not the father. When speaking to VL, he does seem to believe that the baby does belong to BC. On a different occasion, BC told me that Carolyn had a one night with Brian Buffini (Buffini and Company in Carlsbad) -how is that to cover for his girl??? This was where Carolyn worked before she got pregnant and before she started working @ AFC. She started working @ AFC soon after she had the baby. I do have mixed feelings about BC being the father just because there are proven records of BC and CR coming out of airports into limos, that meant flying together, they have been spotted being together at malls, caught coming out of behind building’s parking lot (hmmm, I wonder what they were doing…) It is a very sad situation. A simple DNA test would solve the entire situation. It is so sad to know that Ron Williams has covered too much throughout the years for Barry. I think BC may have something on Ron W., and this is why Ron is scared to speak up. Sadly, BC told me some stuff about Ron when he backslid in the beginning of the church -how sad…Ron thinks that no body knows -but many do. Ron, you should come clean too in all of this. This will help the body of Christ move forward. And it will alleviate your new marriage too!

  238. in his presence says:

    And yes, I know if Barry read through my comments, he knows exactly who I am. Barry just give it up and get right before your creature. I do pray you are completely restored.

  239. in his presence says:

    Sorry, SG I will not be able to attend tonight, have previous engagement. Continue to Fight the good fight of faith! Release Love…Release Truth…Release Christ! Much love.

  240. in his presence says:

    I meant to say bc get right before your creator.

  241. SG says:

    To HG, yes those court records do exist regarding VL not being boy’s father. I have a copy of the divorce decree and DNA test. Vince is innocent. These records prove without a shadow of a doubt that there was adultery going on in the leadership of AFC.

    Barry’s Cook’s strange bahavior ; soon following divorce; and the fact that the child looks exactly like BC convinced 600 people that the misconduct began at the senior level of leadership.

    Barry, please come tonight and address these concerns. Here is the address:

    1612 Rush Avenue
    Vista, CA 92084

  242. SG says:

    JM, are you Jessica Mitchum? If so, please come tonight and bring Spring with you. Sabrina and Abe, you welcome as well.

  243. SG says:

    To my beautiful son Kenny,

    One day soon you’ll be home and on your way to fulfilling your God given destiny. Even now I know God is speaking to your heart and showing you His wonderful love and grace. I am so proud of how you stood up before the judge and DA and confessed your wrongdoing. You took your punishment like a man and have conducted yourself with true dignity these past two years while in prison. Many have approached you with offers of position, yet you have stayed out of the fray. Mother’s day is tomorrow and I want you to know that I love you and that I am honored to be your mother. No matter how long you are away, 12 years or less, I will be right here by your side to give you the wisdom and courage to be the man God has called you to be. You are my angel and nothing will ever separate you from your mother’s love. More importantly, nothing will ever separate you from your Father’s love.

    Come home soon, my love. Your community needs you………….your family needs you!

  244. Once part of AFC says:

    Thank you Susan for speaking the truth.
    I miss my Freinds and family from AFC but they have all moved on and left. I spent many years serving in that church and have been left devastated and wounded.

    I dont speak out of accusations or assumptions but I speak from knowlege and truth. I was not just a person sitting in the pew, I served in every capacity I could neglecting my children as I did. When I left I had to repent to my children for ever allowing them to be a part of such control and manipulation. I love the Lord but I have not been able to step back into a church sense I left that place.

    VL was a great part of my familys life and we were devastated when he left, He is a good and honest man who was blasted from the pulpit. That pulpit is supposed to be pure and rightous but it is covered with blood and lies.

    When I left AFC it was because I was branded and followed through the church as if I was the devil himself. RW would stand behind me when I sat in the service I couldent even talk to anyone without him appearing.

    For all of you who have no actual experience in AFC then you have no right to comment to those of us who have and for those that are still there I was blind to. You have to step out to see the light.

  245. SG says:

    Hi Once Part of AFC:

    My dear friend, please come to the house tonight and let us love on you. We miss you too. We’ll get through this together. You don’t have to be afraid…you will not be censored.

    The address is 1612 Rush Avenue, Vista, CA 92084. We are right next to VHS off of Bobier and Goodwin.

    We love you……….

  246. SG says:

    Thank you family for coming to our home. You’ve touched me in a profound way…..I see Christ in each of you……the Lord spoke through you all directly to my heart….you are truly living epistles full of virtue and strength. We will see true restoration in the house of God.

    To the current members of AFC. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the folks who are calling on BC’s to repent to the ENTIRE church are following after the heart of God. This public rebuke that is happening to BC is not the hand of the enemy. Your public attacks against the people who are calling for BC’s repentance are working against you. If you continue to rail against them you will find yourself fighting against the hand of God.

    Barry Cook, we emplore you in Christ’s stead…be ye reconciled to God. Repent before the Body of Christ. Do it quickly before real judgment comes……….please!!

  247. Still Standing says:

    Thank You SG and Family for opening your home up to the hurt and the hungry. You truely bore fruit of the AFC body we used to know. I only wish there were more current AFC goers that could testify of the spirit of reconciliation that was present. Thank You for being courageous enough to withstand the accusations that come with breakthrough believers. Be encouraged with a quote I once heard, “A hundred years from now, people will build a monument for you with the same stones they threw at you.” Stay humble and press forward!

  248. Thanks! says:

    Thanks SG:

    Thanks for providing a platform for people to speak. For those of us who had to endure the spiritual abuse, lies, deception, and control for so long…this blog is helping so many get it all out. Everyone that attended AFC and left has been slandered, hurt, with no where to turn, or anyone to talk to. I’m sure all of us x-members has experienced this: Going into a store and seeing a current member of AFC. They ignore you like you have the plague, acting like they don’t even see you. So for so many, this is the first time we’ve had a platform to talk about things, to realize we aren’t crazy, bringing validity to our first hand experiences, just knowing you weren’t the only one. Thanks.

    For the current members of AFC we still love you all, we’ve been in your shoes, so we understand the reasons your still there. We had the same reasons. We all just got a revelation that any type of abuse is ungodly and not to be tolerated. We know that God’s Kingdom is so much bigger than the walls of AFC. That our purpose in God is not contingent on the positions we held in that church, or the leadership we served under. It’s about the Kingdom! So, don’t get upset (current AFC members) when former members have something to say. We all know BC never bit his tongue preaching. He always said what he wanted to say…. very confrontational, lashing out in very controlling, hurtful ways to anyone he wanted to. Wounding many people who still can’t trust church leadership today, never apologizing or repenting to these people. It’s good to talk it out, so restoration, forgiveness/repentance can take place.

    We fail to realize it’s not just the DNA test of the baby that needs to be determined so that “Little R” know who his father is/isn’t . But the DNA of AFC? Many babies, and children of God depended on BC, the Apostolic Father of this territory, right? To be a spiritual father, feeding us the Word of God, so we all can grow in Christ and take NC for the Kingdom. Take the DNA test both naturally and spiritually? It will only reveal the truth. Don’t abandon your post Man of God!

  249. JM says:

    SG, I’m sorry but I am not Jessica Mitchum.

    To All, I would like to know if there were any current members who’m attended only to hear your take. So far it sounds like it was just a time to “vent” for past members. I’m only sayint this because so far that is how it appears by the previous posts and would like to know how a current member was received?

    Also, I urge you not to assume that everybody that is still attending or involved with AFC is being controlled or manipulated, which I assure you is not only a bold statement, it is incorrect. You would be assuming that others cannot hear God for themselves, which is also very bold and incorrect.

  250. SG says:

    The people who chose to accept the public invitation came with a true heart towards reconciliation. Some of the attendees have not been in contact with each other for over 4 years. The atmosphere was full of gladness and joy to be re-membered to lost family members. We laughed, we cried, we asked for forgiveness, and we were healed. You see my friend none of this is about BC or AFC. The Virtuous Church is arising in North County. She has asked her once spiritual leader to come forward in truth for genuine restoration. He has refused.

    We now ask that any of the 600 ex-members of AFC who want to be reconciled to their family to please come forward. We invite the ex-leaders to also come forward to help shepherd the flock of God. We don’t expect the hirelings to respond, but we are fully confident that the true Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers and Evangelists will take their place as God’s chosen leaders.

    We will know the voice of the shepherd and the voice of the stranger we will not follow.

    We have Kingdom business to accomplish. We regret that the current AFC leadership and congregation did not avail themselves to the invitation to be reconciled to the family. We love you and God bless you.

  251. Full of Hope says:

    To JM:

    As a former member of AFC I want to first say that I’m not against anyone but for the Kingdom. I am well aware that all current leaders and members are not being controlled and manipulated. And we realize that our words on these blogs can’t change what you think and see but it is only by the Spirit that eyes can truly be opened. I can only speak from my own experience and say that my years at Ambassador were life changing. I was equipped during my stint there. But I also know that at some point, things changed.
    BC encouraged us to gain knowledge and understanding and not just to take anyone at their word. He was an avid reader and encouraged us to do the same. I would like to suggest to you and the “body” universal a book that helped restore me and see things a little clearer; “The Sublte Power of Spiritual Abuse”, by David Johnson
    I am hopeful to see restoration come to the body in North County and wish Success to the Kingdom!

  252. Still Standing says:

    To Thanks:
    Well Spoken! Some of us are not quibbling over the DNA of just one little boy, but some of us are asking, “Where’s our Daddy”

  253. Full of hope says:

    “Thanks” What you stated is so true. When I chose to take my family out of AFC, it had nothing to do with whether or not BC fathered Little R. But I have my opnion. When I was growing up my natural father was dysfuntional and things transpired that shouldn’t have. Since then, he has repented and we have been restored. Guess I am hoping for the same outcome with my spiritual daddy.

  254. Gino says:

    the reason that Ron won’t speak up us is because he has been caught in kiddy porn. Pluse that fact that he is gay. That’s why Barry didn’t let him do chrildrens church anymore. He has been caught a couple times. That is what Barry likes to do. Get dirt on you, and then you won’t say a word about him. It didn’t go good when I called him on his sexual relationship with other women in the church. Everyone thought I was carzy then the same people that were defending him, well he was sleeping with there wives. come on barry come out of hiding!!! Ever since we left that controlling church we have prospered so much. doing better than ever.

    Gino

  255. Gino says:

    everywhre I post I put my name and I sent emails to Ron but he won’t answer. Come on barry ron and the other false prophets come out of hidding.

  256. Gino says:

    anyone know where Frank is??? I heard he left.

  257. SG says:

    Hi Gino and C.

    Oh wow, it is so good to hear from you guys! How are you?

    FC is doing fine. He is married and has a beautiful little girl. Shoot me an email with you number and Hal and I will contact you back.

    Are you still in SA?

    We love you guys and always wondered what you saw that made you step down. You were BC’s right hand man for so long.

    We knew something was amiss. Gino, man, we love you.

  258. SG says:

    I’m troubled by a the attempt to connect with this situation through unbroken “soul ties.”

    Husbands, you better stand up against this in your home. Your women can easily be seduced because of their need for “relationship.”

    There are some woman out there right now who are causing division in their marriages because they are contemplating reconciliation with one man while they are neglecting and ignoring their husband’s counsel.

    Men, rise up now before this silliness perpetuates all this dysfunction.

    Girls, be careful. Do not go outside of the unity of your marriage to seek “reconciliation” with another man. Some AFC women put their marriages second to please another man in the past and it cost them a lot. Your first obligation is to your husband.

    If that is not you than disregard, but if there is the slightest truth, do not move an inch forward without YOUR man of God that God gave you.

    I humbly suggest that if this was done in the past, that you go to your offended husband and repent and ask for his forgiveness. Bring reconciliation in your homes for real. No more secrets. No more denials.

    I love you. You know I do.

  259. Still Standing says:

    Hey Gino it is so good to hear from you again. You were so close to BC and I can only imagine how hurt you were at the things you’ve experienced. The closer you are to the top, the more you see, and the greater you are affected. You must have waited so long to see justice come to this situastion. However, I am concerned with your heart and the many offences that might be harborring there. I know when you left our families were really close but you chose not to disclose to us why you left. And as a result, our relationship was affected. Well I hope it’s back now. We have alot of catching up to do, I only ask you to be a steward over your heart. Tell C we said hello and Love and miss you guys so much. If you don’t know who I am tell me on this blog and I’ll give you a buzz!

  260. SG says:

    Peter 3,

    Wives in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that if any of them do not believe the word, they may be one over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverance of your lives.”

    The word says that if you want to win over your husbands, you are to submit to them. Your submission to them reveals to them your reverance for God. The word did not say for women to show their husbands their reverance for God by submitting to another man, even a man of God.

    No one should submit to abuse of any kind.

    Husbands who are NOT sold on a particular church or a particular pastor maybe hearing more from God than what some wives give them credit. We are to listen to their counsel. When we think we can usurp God ordained order in the home and become the Holy Ghost for our husbands and for other husbands/men, we are out of order.

    I make a request and ask that the mighty men of God come forward to lead the church.

    As I write these messages, all of them, my husband is my head and my counsel. This message is from him as well.

  261. ginom says:

    who is “Still Standing”???? you can email me at giovanni@silestoneinstallers.com

    SG I think christne gots you number. She told me she’s gong to call you today.

  262. ginom says:

    Here are some links to pics of Bobby and tory.

    I know my comments might seem harsh. You should see my emails to Ron. Does anyone have Barry’s email??

    I am not harboring any offences. Heck i’m just excited!!!! I have spent way too much on theropy. I must say this is more fun.

  263. ginom says:

    Here are some links of pics. It’s Bobby and Tory.

    I know it might sound like i’m harboring offences but i’m really not. Theropy helped me with that. I’m just excited that the day has finally come. I have just been sitting back and watching.

  264. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Why now that BC has no solid proof he is the father, people are going to start attacking others at AFC? I think this is sad. It breaks my heart to think that the people who used to be part of this church learned that the only way to move forward was to badmouth people. Ok, so what if it is all true? Does putting a childs name on the internet make it ok? This innocent victim had nothing to do with any of it, and everyone has used this kids name to blast others having no respect for him. If it was my son, I would be filing lawsuits against people using his name to slander.

    This is Christianity? Taking RW name and slandering him as well? I can’t believe the behavior I have read and seen. If the things that went on at AFC were so bad, why have you all chosen to recreate it all here like a soap opera? Defamation of Character, slander, I can’t believe what I am reading from people who are self proclaimed Jesus lovers.

    I’m sorry, this really does break my heart. It hurts to see this, that even through everything everyone has been through, no one cares about anyone but their own anger and hurt. SG, though I may not aree in all your views, I do appreciate you keeping your comments minimal in regards to other people.

    It’s hard to fathom why out of all the hurt, brokenness and anger that calling people out here that are not available to defend themselves is holy and Christian like.

    We have all been formers of something. Through my walk I have dealt with addiction, abortion, and so many other things. But it would be hurtful for someone to turn around and use it to attack me because of the position I serve in. Is there no hope for restoration? No grace?

    This really does bring tears to my eyes. We all have fallen short, I don’t understand why attacking BC now means going and attacking others at AFC. It moves from wanting justice to wanting blood. And I’m sorry, I really do think that is wrong.

  265. Still Standing says:

    To Humnled by Jesus;
    I understand what you are saying. And I know that 2 wrongs don’t make a right, but what we are all witnessing is a product of not handling offenses properly in the body. It’s ulgy and will get uglier still because too many of us have been guilty of playing the “great pretender “and acting as if all is well instead of addressing issues that arise. Let this be a lesson to all of us to obey God’s word. In particular when it comes to offenses MATT 18:15-17 spells it out clearly. God is not surprised by none of this. There is enough grace for all parties involved to be restored. It’s up to the body of Christ to hold one another accountable so it never gets to this point. You feel me?

  266. Humbled by Jesus says:

    I understand what you are saying but do we continue on because of offenses that were not made right? If RW has some “secret” then before bringing it here shouldnt someone go to him directly? And I have to be honest, at this point, I wouldn’t want to talk to someone who had defamed my name on a blog or anywhere else.

    So just because we didn’t do what we were instructed to do in Matthew, it gives us the right to turn to ugliness? It’s the by product of not handling the situation?

    I agree we all need to be held accountable. But if you are no longer at AFC and have bad mouthed the leadership and the flock by saying everyone there is being manipulated, why would anyone want to talk to you about their accountability?

    It feels like everyone wants people at AFC to be accountable to those that are no longer there. And my question is, why would anyone WANT to do that now? If there was a chance, surely now after all this the opportunity has passed.

    I’m not here to defend anyone, and my heart is pure in my intentions, I’m saddened by all of this. It really hurts to see what could have been restoration and reconciliation turned into outright defamation.

    The more I read, the more I realize that I need God so much more in my life. The way Christians treat each other is hurtful and the fact that people can say its going to get uglier makes the whole situation that much worse. Its like we don’t even care anymore about who we hurt.

    This is just so sad to me.

  267. ginom says:

    First of all I never brought the name of Jesus into this you did. I never claimed anything but the truth. Remember Barry always said to tell the truth even though he didn’t. If they want to put a lawsuit against me, you go back and tell them to go ahead.

    I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I kept my mouth shut and left. And sure enough Barry dug himself a hole he can’t get out of. You won’t silence me by a religious posting. I’m not stating lies just telling the truth. I’m not talking behind anyone’s back or hiding. I put my name on here so everyone knows who I am. I won’t hide behind a computer nor have people talk for me. I would tell Barry or Ron to there face. Matters of fact have them call me. I would like to talk to them. These people need to be confronted with there manipulation and lies. As for Terri, I would pay money to get a 30 min. meeting with her. Just tell me when to write the check.

    You see when you publicly slander me from a pulpit. Pull me and my wife into a room separately trying to split us up so we don’t get married. Then you curse our marriage saying it would never last and degrading me. Yeah Barry tried to curse something he knew nothing about. In trying to curse my marriage he cursed his own. Now look where he is. We were not the only one he did this to.

    AFC took out an ad in the paper of how they are moving on. I’m thinking about taking out my own ad on what Barry is really all about and the truth of AFC.

    If you havfe a problem with this your in for a ride. This just scratches the surface.

  268. Still Standing says:

    Humbled, you addressed alot of issues let me see if I can cover them.
    Yes, I do believe that RW needed to be confronted privately before bringing it on here but I think ginom said he did that. I don’t know enough about that to speak any further.
    I haven’t said everyone there is being controlled or manipulated if you’re speaking of me, personally.
    And when I say it’s only going to get uglier I am simply acknowledging the reality of the situation; there are no leaders (that i know of) stepping up to bring this thing to a peaceful close.
    I can only speak for myself but I think the reason why former members are so concerned with the present situation is we know what not addressing issues did for us and don’t want to see the pattern repeat. We are the “body” ofChrist and we are all affected.
    Former and Present members of AFC get a clue, WE ARE NOT ENEMIES, hopefully we all want the same end, Christ be Glorified!

  269. Humbled by Jesus says:

    I apologize for making the assumption that you are Christian.

    My point remains, even if you want to think I am defending or not. It’s not about who is right any more. This whole situation has turned into something that I whole heartedly believe is not of God.

    I’m not mad at you for your opinions or your truth, we each have a story to tell. I have my own. I just don’t agree with the way some people have chosen to handle the situation. I still believe that calling people, especially children, out by name here on this forum is wrong.

    That opinion won’t change.

  270. Humbled by Jesus says:

    To Still Standing
    I appreciate your honesty. And I agree, we are not enemies. Everything works out for the greater good. If anything I have learned a lot from people’s hurt and frustration. It helps me serve others and hold myself to accountability.

    All I can do is change me, I can’t change anyone else. I love Ghandi’s quote “Be the change you want to see in the world”

    I start with me.

  271. ginom says:

    i didn’t say I was not a christinian. I just not bringing God into it. even a nonbeliever would say what they do is not right. I don’t need to quote scripture for this because it is so obviouse they have made a mockery out of the church.

  272. Full of Hope says:

    To Humbled, You written previously tha tyou don’t agree with how some have handled this situation, My question to you is how do you think, in your own opinion, BC should be handling this?

  273. Humbled by Jesus says:

    IF BC did in fact do what he is being accused of, then in that situation, he should hold himself accountable to everyone involved by confession. I believe that any leader that has committed this type of sin should make it public and repent. Again, this is IF.

    IF BC has not done what he is being accused of, then I believe he should stand firm in his convictions, continue to pastor the church and move forward despite the opposition. And IF he took a DNA test and it proved he wasn’t the father, everyone who has demanded his repentance on this forum should personally apologize and ask for forgiveness.

    I just want to remind everyone that even IF he wanted to do a DNA test, the mother of the child would have to agree to it also.

    So, what then? If he says yes to a test and the mother says no, how can he prove his innocence?

  274. to the "IFs" says:

    We could all ‘if’ away the day – however the facts remain. BC has hidden his sin for long enough and now this blog is proof that the people of God are sick of the lies and want the truth to be settled once and for all. so here’s another one for you: IF BC is reading this, we are just asking you to please take the stupid test if you are so innocent. Dont you see how upset, hurt, angry, dismayed, etc etc etc the poeple of God are? You were supposed to be a strong leader and you failed us – plain and simple and now you are hiding from us. All any of us want is for you to come clean and be honest for once. Why this is so difficult is beyond me… All this could have been resolved years ago if you had done it then, deal with those who may have left then, and move on from there with those who didn’t. But now, you have gone too far and it’s all out on the board. If you don’t want the blogging to continue, just come clean, make a public confession, bring the paperwork of the DNA test and get this over with once and for all. Truth is much better to deal with and then all of us can move on. PLEASE just do it, BC. We’re all waiting – whatever the tests say, you coming forward and sucking up the pride for once and admitting to what you did do is better to all of us than trying to hide it all. We’re tired of shaking our heads in dusgust, embarrassment or shame when AFC is mentioned. We’re tired of all the drama. Please just get this over with…

  275. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Again, say he wants to take the test but the mother says no…is your mob going to go after her to make her do it? And, say he is NOT the father, are you not humble enough to admit that you could possible be wrong?

    This is what I don’t understand. Some people are so adamant they are right. Is that pride? “So we can move on” is a DNA test really preventing you from fulfilling what God has called you to do? “If you don’t want the blogging to continue” as if this is all some sort of threat and he is being strong armed into taking that test. “We’re tired of all the drama” the only people making this dramatic are the people blogging about it. Why are you shaking your heads in disgust and embarrassment? Obviously, you chose another route so you didn’t have to deal with it any more. Is this about you? Or about restoring a church? Are you not proud of serving God or man at AFC? If your heart was to serve God and God alone, why do you care what people say about AFC?

    I’m not trying to attack you, but your comments question the integrity of whether this is about anger and trying to back at someone or about serving God whole-heartedly.

    So, again…the mother doesn’t have to do anything. She may say no to that test, then none of you would ever know. And it wouldn’t be his fault for not trying to tell the truth, but you would all cast him as guilty anyway.

    Even if you hold him to a higher standard, we all receive the same grace we give.

  276. TO humbled by Jesus says:

    “If BC says yes to the DNA and mother says no?!?” You are clearly laying out what BC and CL’s next move… So brilliant… I wont be surprise if this happens… Where BC will agree to the test, so everyone can quiet down, but little will anyone know Carolyn will be inform to say no… hehehehe….. Oh boy…

    Also- I think you are taking what ginom said out of context…

    Ginom I totally agree with what you say… 🙂

  277. To Humbled by Jesus says:

    A DNA sample of the child in question already exists, it was taken during the divorce proceedings between VL and CL. This document is considered public record and can be obtained by anyone from the courthouse in Vista. I have a copy of it.

  278. Humbled by Jesus says:

    I am not saying anything that some people don’t already know. I was friends with CL and she no longer attends AFC. She has not made herself available for contact. And what sucks is that I have lost a friend because of all the bullying that everyone else is doing.

  279. now to Humbled by Jesus says:

    Obviously you have no idea what the rest of the 600 of us saw, much less what those of us in leadership know and saw on a daily basis up close and personal behind the scenes stuff that the common congregation had no idea was happening – like Gino said, it’s a lot bigger than you even know. There are a lot of people that have had similar situations like Gino’s – and much, much more that has gone unspoken. He went thru hell before he left the church and had every right to make his adult decisions as he saw fit. Meddling in people’s personal lives, however was another huge part of the control at AFC.
    Actually I would love to see the cycles in Barry’s life stopped. There are too many hurting women and families now because of his manipulations. There are too many divorces because of his adultery. If Carolyn cared enough about herself and her son and was ready to walk with her head proud, she would also get this over with by demanding the test and the child support. But they are obviously working together to cover this mess up, but what they forgot is that things do come to light one day and this is the ‘days’ it is all coming out. Forgive those who are upset, mad, angry, hurt, venting on this blog, but God doesn’t hold it against anyone because of the truth everyone is trying to get to. THANK GOD for this platform to get our words heard. This situation is not over – and we are tired of asking over and over for the truth to be spoken out of BC’s own mouth. This is unfinished business for a lot of people. Obviously there are a multitude of issues that are unresolved and we are all sick of THAT part of it. We are just asking for a finality – to close the chapter on this part of life. Please everyone, quit trying to twist and turn this around using some religious statements or even scriptures to try to make everyone feel bad for stating the truth. There is nothing wrong with the TRUTH – Jesus was HATED for it. Please just stop picking apart the process and let’s get to the resolution!!!. And as brutal as what the truth is, it could all be ended, forgiven, and people allowed to move on once a public confession, and the testing and the sincere repenting happens – for both BC and Carolyn.
    To Carolyn I would say, stop the cherades and get your son tested. You know who the father is and there is no reason to keep hiding. It’s out now – nobody has been fooled. Get the test, demand your son’s father also get it and be done with this irrational behavior. Ricky is too important as your son to deny this truth to be dealt with. I pity him 10 years from now if you don’t. His life is too precious to let this go. One day he will be old enough to demand it from you, don’t wait til then.

  280. Humbled by Jesus says:

    I really don’t understand what putting an innocent child’s name all over the internet is conducive to solving. I think people should just be prepared to accept that you may never get an answer, then what?

    Just because there are court records made public that have DNA answers doesn’t mean that is the end all to BC getting one. There are still permissions and samples that need to be done in an effort to keep the integrity of the test.

    Again, using an innocent child’s name here doesn’t show any kind of compassion, his life IS too precious, and you are using his mother to slander him and the unknown of his future. I think that is wrong. If I were his mother I would definitely take any legal action necessary to keep his name out of the media.

    I knew a lot of former leaders over the past five years. Anyone without stain or wrinkle cast the first stone. So many people in leadership claiming to be so righteous because of the positions they held. Demanding what we could do for them and not how they could serve the people. Just because they were deacons and elders they got to behave different.

    Don’t get me started on what I have seen. Adultery, deception, lying, and to think ONE man is behind it all is an outright shift of accountability.

    If you are low enough to use a child’s name and trash it with the rest of the media, then in my eyes you have no integrity. It’s sad to see people step down to that level to make a point.

    Point taken, please stop using this poor kids name. I love that little boy, and you have outright disrespected him.

  281. HAL GUINN says:

    We do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and rulers of darkness in high places.
    The call has gone out for the men of this territory to rise up and prepare for spiritual battle. There is an army of thousands in this territory that are trained and equipped to tear down the strongholds, to fight for truth and righteousness, to advance the Kingdom of God and to proclaim the lordship of Jesus Christ.
    I am not looking for a “daddy” … I KNOW who my father is, what I am looking for is a man of God to step up and take up what Barry Cook laid down, -the mantle of authority -that has been given to this territory. Men of God, the leader has abandoned his post.What I am looking for is the man on whom this mantle has been passed to.
    I am looking for the leader of this army, a man that will walk worthy of the vocation wherein he has been called. I am not looking for a perfect man but I am looking for an honest man,a man who loves his family, a man who loves the family of God, a man who will not be seduced by the spirits of this territory, a man that is qualified to take up this mantle. I know that you are here. I feel it in my spirit.
    I am looking for the Apostles, Iam looking for the Pastors, I am looking for the warriors. As I am writing this I am seeing the faces of so many men….. we are all linked together by the common bond of Christ…. where are my brothers.

  282. TO humbled by Jesus says:

    Did we just hit a nerve??? Gosh! you sound like Barry

  283. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Nope, but no one else is protecting this kid.

  284. Once part of AFC says:

    To hunbled by Jesus….Who the hell are you anyways and how long have you been apart of afc. CAROLYN HAS YOU WARPED. I was freinds with her and VL before she was ever pregnant and freinds with them after the baby was born.
    She is manipulative and you sound like you are under her spell.

    I was there to see more then I ever wanted and its not about hurting the baby its about about healing the wounded. My children were devastated by this situation because they were close to VL and spent alot of time with that baby.

    You dont sound so humbled to me but someone who is butting into something they probaly no nothing about.

  285. Once part of AFC says:

    And on another note …
    I WAS ONCE BLIND BUT NOW I SEE……..

    I couldent see clearly tell I was on the outside looking in. You should really try it sometime.

    I 100% understand and agree in not using the babies name but in no way is CL an innocent victim here.
    And the baby is not the only child being affected, I havent heard you stand up for the other child here who is old enough to understand whats up. And on that note what about all of our children who were raised in that church and taught right from wrong from that very pulpit just to have it defiled.

  286. Susanne Guinn says:

    I support my husband’s comments 100%.

    Mighty men the church needs you NOW!!!

    Women, get ready to serve YOUR mighty men!!!

    LET THE CHURCH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ARISE!!!

    GOD ALMIGHTY…I HEAR THE SOUND OF THUNDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  287. Once part of AFC says:

    Oh and why wouldent Carolyn want to do a DNA test??????????

    If he is her Spiritual Father and he is innocent of the accusation at hand and she can help him, wouldent she want to prove it?

    I was tought when I got saved not to ever put myself in a situation that would allow accusation may it be real or false come about.

    The leaders I knew would drive al;one in a car with anothers man’s wife or a single woman if they were married. They would not come serve in the office if there was only one female presewnt and no one else.
    This was Christianity 101

    Why were BC and CL alone for hours, alone in his room in Germany, alone in his office, in her office, and found walking alone together in a private pathway after VL was gone. Why did he take her to appts? Couldent he have TC or TS for that matter help her if she was the poor greif stricken widow he made her out to be.

    WHO PAID FOR THE DIVORCE??????????? Was it the Widows fund collection that was taken up? I know BC asked several Elders to pay for it and when they dident he took a collection for widows.

    I THOUGHT YOUR HUSBAND HAD TO DIE TO BE A WIDOW…….

  288. Susanne Guinn says:

    Well….I throwing a dollar to two at that one….

  289. Susanne Guinn says:

    Pastors GT and AT…please call us. Hal’s number is 760.521.0166.

  290. Humbled by Jesus says:

    I never said CL was an innocent victim, in fact, I told her to leave my husband alone after a few things that I had seen. Don’t judge what you don’t know. But I pushed aside that and still befriended her because I cared about her, not because I was being manipulated. I still hold my own opinions about her, so please, don’t comment on things you don’t know, just ask I will tell you the truth.

    My husband new VL long before this mess started. I’ve been around AFC for over five years. No one is throwing other names of children around on this blog. There is no need to protect them from the media. If it was happening, I’d say something about that too. But using this kids name to prove a point when he is too young to understand and has no one to defend him, is wrong.

    Sorry to cause such a heated response. I say what i feel needs to be said. If it doesn’t then just ignore me.

  291. Susanne Guinn says:

    Good morning.

    To the leaders of THE CHURCH: I ask you to search your hearts this morning and comtemplate the word and teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ to go into all the world and preach the gospel; to make disciples; to heal the sick’ to cast out devils; to feed the hungry; to clothe the poor; to visit those imprisoned and so much more.

    Many have sat under the banner of a teaching that said, Building Leaders to Impact Their Generation, Evangelize the Lost, and so on….

    I must ask you, did you receive your mantle when it was given to you by the Word of God? If so, then why do you continue to mourn for yesterday and do little to carry out the great commission today. Were you truly birthed as leaders or as eunichs. ..hold on now don’t get excited….

    I know it is hard to evangelize a city when you don’t have a church to send them to…well what about it, CHURCH.

    If we are the product of 12 years of teaching regarding the Apostolic pattern of church growth, then we should be looking at each other and saying why not me instead of who is it…?

    This uncertainity about our own God given capabilities is the perfect example of the dysfunctional fruit of AFC. If we can not go out and reproduce the Kingdom, then we were never brought up as leaders, but only clones and robots to build a man’s kingdom within the Kingdom.

    Why am I saying this? Because the reality of the situation is that BC’s influence in this territory is over for a long time and maybe forever (if he doesn’t repent.) In the meantime, you and I have work to do. Sure we need to be made whole from all this dysfunction, however, we can assemble ourselves together under Godly leadership and allow God to complete the good work He started in each of us.

    Again, I ask the leaders of the Church to come forward and call a gathering of the sheep. Stand up and be counted. You know who you are. It is not arrogance or pride that you should answer the call when the spirit of God leads you…it is obedience. And if you except, it will be the first and possibly the most humble thing you can do. Especially when you consider the circumstances.

    Yes, we know who the leaders are not, but lets give the Spirit of God the opportunity to speak to His own.

  292. and more.... says:

    who paid for the divorce AND who paid for hotel expenses in Carlsbad for BC and Carolyn? Where did that money come from? the OFFERING BUCKETS! I guess that money didn’t go to the building as we had thought, huh? foreclosure makes more and more sense now, doesn’t it? I hope the IRS does some heavy duty checking on the appropriate use of funds! THAT will be a BIG can of worms – according to my yearly giving receipts never lining up, now this, too.
    Carolyn has a lot to think about. If she was smart she would realize that he will only do TO her what he did WITH her while he was MARRIED. And she would realize she’s not the first – she’s just the obvious one because she had the baby! so, she won’t be the last – such a pipe dream that women get caught into. The logical thing to do on her part is REQUIRE the test to be done and start receiving child support from back payments since he was born, til he turns 18, include braces, college, the whole works!! The little guy deserves THAT!
    Funny BC preached about VL being the deadbeat dad, but in actuality BC HIMSELF WAS THE DEADBEAT DAD! and KNEW the whole time he was trashing VL that VL was NOT the father. That whole thing was a prime example of control – if he preached against someone, those of us listening would think he was awful, too and not dare ‘ask questions’… oooooops… a lot of us asked questions and found out the truth! There was no ‘widow’ but an adultress…
    Still waiting for repentance, BC… still waiting… don’t you want this over so you can sleep at night without your conscience screaming at you? come on…

  293. ToGino says:

    Who the hell do you think you are to write such things about RW? Do you feel more like a man now after insulting anothers manhood. Are you so perfect that you need to post crap about others? How would you like someone posting a blog about you like that?

  294. Susanne Guinn says:

    Gino would not have posted the comment if he did not know it to be true. The thing you should be concerned about is this: if BC knew about this information and did not report it to the authorities, he could be in some serious legal hot water. All clergy, teachers, doctors, etc are bound by law to report any and all abuse of children. There is no “covering” this kind of criminal behavior.

  295. Ginom says:

    I won’t tell you who the hell I think I am, I will tell you who I am. I am a man that attended AFC, was controlled, deceived, manipulated, spiritually and mentally abused and cursed by Barry and Terri Cook from the pulpit and in meetings.

    Since I left that cult I have been freed, healed and became successful with the vision I felt was given to me. I have a loving family and wife. Not just building Barry’s cult vision and never raising anyone else do anything.

    I have confronted Barry Cook about his affairs with church members. I confronted Ron Williams about his homosexuality and kiddy porn. Obviously nothing has changed. After I left, Barry was confronted from other members and Ron got caught and confronted again.

    I never said I was perfect. I have done wrong many times. When you want to get behind a pulpit and preach the word of God but sleep with your members or other pastors wives, someone better stand up and say something.

    When you want to tell everyone how to live and lecture them about the Bible you better make sure you are not looking at little boys on the internet.

    Would you trust your wives or kids around people like that??????

    You see I’m accountable for my family. That is who I’m over. Barry is accountable for the church, the body of Christ. Barry has put Ron over the church as a leader. So he is held accountable for them also.

    No one would be posting anything if the Leader of AFC would come out of hiding and come clean. Yeah I’m talking about YOU BARRY COOK.

    See I’m not Hiding I put my name on here. You don’t have to wonder about who I am. Everything I say I can back up. I’m not making anything up. Matter of fact I can get multiple people to confirm the truth I am stating.

  296. Susanne Guinn says:

    Gino, we know you speak the truth.

    Don’t even receive anything from the spirit of Jezebel that sounds like a threat.

    We will not squelch the spirit of Jehu. This is what freedom sounds like North County. Your deliverers are present. We will destroy and bring down the strongholds of satan.

    “If I have to choose between Righteousness and Peace, I choose Righteousness.” T. Roosevelt

    THROW HER DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  297. Humbled by Jesus says:

    If what you are saying is truth, and you truly want to see justice, then why don’t you take legal action? Why bother posting media blogs about it? If justice needs to be served then do it, or stop talking about it. I mean, what legal justice comes from a blog? If you truly believe in your convictions, take it to court with your proof. If BC is the only one that allegedly saw him do it, then is it possible the only truth you speak of is what you heard? And if you did in face SEE him do it, then doesn’t that make you accountable to say something legally?

  298. Susanne Guinn says:

    You are the only one saying “If” and you are the only one assuming that nothing is being done outside of this blog………and once again you are WRONG!!

  299. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Just checking, because it seems to me all the self proclaimed leaders who are accusing BC of doing nothing to bring people to justice, aren’t doing anything either. In the end God prevails. Always.

    From a legal aspect, it would seem to err on irresponsibility to post something that could be used against the accuser in court. Accusing someone outside a judicial court system, doesn’t always look good on the prosecutor. Building a case through the media, doesn’t help your case.

    But I assume, you know all this.

    God is good, all the time.

  300. Seeking Truth says:

    Who said they were self proclaimed leaders? The Bible says we are leaders. Jesus Christ called each and everyone of us to lead. We don’t need your “thumbs up” to do exactly what we are called to do and fulfill. And just because you don’t like the fact that the truth about AFC and its gross ministerial and possibly criminal misconduct is being made PUBLIC, does not make you an expert on who is and who is not obeying God in this matter.

    Not one person in the scriptures, who committed these kinds of sins against the church and did not repent, escape judgement.

    We are bringing thest matters before the church and because BC refused to allow the church to bring these matters to him privately, we are publically calling him out on these many issues. And as long as they keep surfacing, the public has a right to know.

    You call yourself humbled by Jesus, yet you continue to defend behavior that has even defiled children. You don’t even have enough humility in you to admit that this church is full of wickedness and perversity. Are you one of the many at AFC that is involved in somekind of perversity? What you allow you will tolerate!!

    Thank God for the children’s sake, that people who really care about this community, are speaking out. Who knows how many kids are being sexually abused at AFC right now by known pedifiles. This isn’t the first time this has happened at AFC. There is a pattern and if you knew what you were talking about you would know that pattern exists. Go ahead and ask RW for yourself. And while he stands their trying to find his hat, ask him how many incest victims have there been at AFC…tell him just to give you a round about number. I’m sure they’ve lost track by now.

    I think it is you that errs. You are to be ignored. Even addressing you gives the hint of credibility to your insane observations. You are only representing the current flavor of the week at AFC. Is it cherry or grape that you all are drinking this week?

  301. Humbled by Jesus says:

    To Seeking Truth, I agree with everything you are saying. No one escapes judgment. And the reason I said “Self Proclaimed Leaders” was because I tried making the point before we were all leaders, but some people argued saying that the leadership in the church was held to a higher standard…

    I’m not defending anyone. I say again, if there is reason to believe illegal activity was done, then take it to the court.

    And I can’t say that the church is full of wickedness and perversity. I haven’t experienced it, so how can I make a judgment on something I don’t know?
    Unless by your standard I am being manipulated which seems to be a common defense when someone doesn’t share the same view as those who oppose BC and the crew.

    And you are right, if I allow it I tolerate it, but since I have not seen it first hand and have no facts, how can I be judged as tolerating it?

    If my kids were being abused anywhere, I’d want to know about it too, but I also can’t take the word of one person who has not shown substantial proof and make an assumption. Anyone can make a claim about another, but I have to do my diligence in making sure the claims are accurate. Anyone can point the finger, I’m just saying, SHOW ME PROOF…

    And I think the flavor of the week for me is….lemon.

  302. Red Zone says:

    Hello Everyone-

    I attended AFC a long time ago and left for other reasons… But when I left that church was on fire…. The spirit of the Lord was flowing from Left to Right and all around… From the Leaders to the members and to the visitors… It was just AWESOME… The mighty Hand of God was just working through the church and to the entire North County. One of the best things I remember was the “back to School” bash… Where everyone would buy school bags and supplies and just donate it for kids who were less fortunate… I remember when we went to a school and gave out school supplies for kids… And just seeing the looks on their faces….. It was just an awesome feeling – Glory to God.

    However, after hearing so much that’s going on and my brother and wife left the congregation, I wanted to go see for myself…

    On Sunday, Mother’s day- Me and My sons (Mark,2 & Josh,4) drove out to Oceanside to visit AFC… As soon as I walked in the door, tears came down my face… The sanctuary was just empty… There were about 100 attendees give or take… I personally wanted to speak with BC but he wasnt available… All I know is, those tears were tears of sadness… Because I didnt feel the spirit moving anymore…. And just realizing the fact that before I left there were about 800 members give or take, and now down to maybe 100 to 150 is not right…. It’s a clear outcome of something that is not of God…

  303. Red Zone says:

    Addition to previous note: Just a thought on an Odd and Strange Presentation this past Sunday….

    The church had given out gifts to recognize some mothers during the service… There were two specific gifts that were given out… One was to the youngest mother in the church ( I think they said she’s 16 or 17) and then the mother with the most children received the second gift… I thought it was nice but awkward in a way… Some young mothers dont like to be recognize and put on full blast in front of 100 or more people- it was a little weird.

  304. SG says:

    Hi Red Zone: I understand the sadness that you experienced during your visit on Sunday. Hal and I made a recent visit on a Thursday night and experienced the same thing. It was just so empty (or a better word would be void) of any genuine presence of God.

    The few people there, especially on the pulpit, seemed desperate to make something happen. They don’t understand that the Spirit of God Himself is grieved about the unrepentant sin in the house of God. The whole thing is a crying shame that is for sure.

    Yeah, we remember the good ol days too, but unfortunately they are gone. My hope is the people will rise up in truth and assemble together to continue the work. So many people are not sure who they can trust and in many instances there is so much offense between members that they just can’t see themselves co-laboring with certain individuals. I have to encourage these folks to remember that BC purposefully set many of you against each other to keep your loyalties to him. He preyed on people’s need for approval and knew you would despise your brother and sister to get his attention. It was a scam and it worked. Please brothers and sisters, lets not allow this division to continue amongst the body. We need to come together and repent and forgive as a body. Those of you that know this is true, please lets get together and work through the problems. We can do this. We are not a lost cause!!

  305. Humbled by Jesus says:

    SG, there are other posts on here that sound like you that use a different name. Do you always post with your name or your initials? Based on some observations, Seeking Truth could be you as well.

    I was noticing the avatars on this page…(the little boxes with the designs on them…) and they seem to correlate with e-mail addresses. People who use the same e-mail address even if they change their name have the same symbol.

    So imagine my surprise when I looked at some of the responses from Seeking Truth, like on 5/1/08 where there is an entire paragraph devoted to “SG” and what a great woman of God she is.

    Or on 5/8/08 Where this person knows SG personally….

    Could all of this be because it really IS SG posting?

    Also, the tones of each “Name” are quite different. SG comes off very loving, “lets keep the flock together”, “we love you”…

    Where as Seeking Truth uses the same sentence structure and promotes SG in the third person, praising and commending her (SG’s) actions. Then in turn uses hostility in some of her statements to people…

    I wonder SG, who will you posts as today? Or will your avatar change now because there is something up with it?

    Hey, if we are going to get technical about leaders and situations, I want proof, but I also want to make sure the people who are feeding me this information are legitimate.

    If you have to use other names and personas to prove your point and build yourself up, you have lost all credibility with me that is IF what I am saying valid…also from a legal standpoint…well forget that part.

    If I remember correctly I believe it was SG who tried to tell everyone to drop the suit. Then seeking truth makes reference to action being taken outside of this blog, who knows what that could mean.

    I’m just making an observation…Don’t attack me, we are all “seeking truth” right?

  306. Unbelievable says:

    A friend of mine gave me a book recently that was written by Paula White. I wanted to get some information on who this woman is and happened to find this blog. This stuff is crazy! I have had so many people try to convert me to their christianity and have never felt sincerity in any of them. Now after reading some of this, I know why. In my experience, when you are in a relationship that is hurtful or goes wrong in some way, then you get out and move on. Whether it be a working relationship, church, friendship, marriage, or whatever it may be. If you can’t let go, then maybe the one with issues is the person that can’t get over it. This SG person sounds psycho as hell. Some of the things you say and quote makes you sound like a witch. Damn, if you were all so hurt and done wrong, then let it go and move on with your lives. It’s like a marriage gone wrong. If you get divorced and leave are you going to continue bringing up everything that was done wrong to you and keep trying to get your ex-spouse to admit they did you so wrong. Get a life!!! In the real world, that is called freakin psycho! You need help. It’s no wonder I’ve never been able to convert to your so called christianity. With christians like you, who the hell needs enemies. If anyone should run, it’s me. Far, far away from you self-righteous christians. I guess I won’t be reading the book after all.

  307. TO humbled by Jesus says:

    You really dont have any proof that “Seeking Truth” is SG…. Besides your lame excuse that SG and SEEKING TRUTH has the same avatar doesnt prove anything… Who knows, you might’ve posted as SEEKING TRUTH and put SG’s email to prove a point… SG did put her email addy for everyone to email her on this blog…. So, your claim against her is not good enough… If you can trace it to her computer, then that would be proof… But I bet that wont be the case… Just a thought! Let me try posting as SG….

  308. SG says:

    hmmmmmmmmmm

  309. Seeking Truth says:

    Does this make me SG?

  310. To Humbled by Jesus says:

    get the drift… besides- change your name because aint no where on your posts indicate being HUMBLE…

  311. To Unbelievable says:

    God blessed us with a sense of morality to choose… You choosing to stay with the world is not of anyone’s fault. It was simply a choice…

  312. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Like I said it was just an observation, and how do I know if it is or isn’t SG? Those comments posted neither approve or deny. Everyone wants to be right, and the moment someone questions the integrity, people get mad. That in itself speaks volumes.

    I never claimed to be right, never claimed that I had all the answers, I have stayed with my IF comments and Maybe’s because no one can prove anything on here. All of it is hearsay, show me a document, a picture, a video, a web history from RW’s computer…ANYTHING….

    I don’t CLAIM anything against anyone. I just know how the avatars work, and so it was a little strange to me. Arguing with such defensiveness is a little much don’t you think? Especially when all I am doing is asking a question.

    And currently there isn’t much integrity in what anyone is saying…and why is that? Because I’m still asking for RW PROOF which no one seems to have. Unless of course its in a secret hiding place…nothing is surprising any more.

    How does anyone know that I haven’t done my own research? Aren’t you making assumptions by saying that I am choosing to stay with the world? Isn’t that a judgement? You could have at least said IF or MAYBE…

    I think this whole mess shows that no one on here can be HUMBLE, LOVING, FOR THE KINGDOM, myself included…know why? because everyone has an agenda… Take down BC, take down RW, throw CL under the bus, and her kid.

    Start your own church, put your own flock together. Then you could do everything the way you see fit. That makes sense to me, Lord knows with all the ex AFCers, they need a place to go and be restored. I’m pure in heart when I say that. I know people have left for a variety of reasons, I know some people were done wrong by leadership, and I am talking about leadership that is no longer committing offenses as well.

    I am one of those people that were hurt in this whole process. I am wounded too despite all the remarks made to me about being manipulated and tolerating behaviors.
    I know I need restoration, but don’t count me in at going to SG’s house. Reading this stuff is enough, I don’t want to be around it naturally.

    So, in the end, we all need grace and restoration, I myself am included in this process. Just because I have a different view about what restoration is and how to restore others, doesn’t mean I am against anyone. Shouldn’t we all be working together to see this in each other? Pointing fingers takes us all off the purpose of being Kingdom focused and becoming world driven. Justice is only justice if you can prove the allegations with factual documentation.

    This week I am grieving. Seriously, I am taking time to mourn for what has been lost so that I can reposition myself to move forward in the call that God has over my life. Not the call on AFC, not the call for BC, the call that has been put on MY life.

    I hope everyone has had a chance to endure this process. I am coming out on the other side. So, no more blogs from me. By moving forward I leave all the offenses done behind, God ultimately is the judge of everyone…Leader or not. You all fight the good fight.

    I will fight in the field as well, though my energy will be to bring those that the devil has bound and don’t know God to freedom and deliverance. Blessings to everyone, its time to rise up people of God, be a voice that promotes peace, love and unity.

    I can appreciate people’s opinions, I’ve learned a lot and truly, I am humbled today.

  313. what really going on says:

    why was carolyn on payroll for a year after she stopped working at the church. Some one has a sugar daddy. why wasn’t a payment made on the building since october when as of december there ware enough funds in the special account.

  314. what really going on says:

    correction…………….. the last payment was made in august and as of december funds were available

  315. To Humbled by Jesus says:

    Correction to your post- the following statement was meant for UNBELIEVABLE….

    “God blessed us with a sense of morality to choose… You choosing to stay with the world is not of anyone’s fault. It was simply a choice…”

  316. I Agree with Humbled says:

    i agree with Humbled about the avatars. i actually noticed those about a week ago and was very close to making a comment about it on a number of occasions. it seems that if you go to other blogs on wordpress and use your e-mail it uses the same avatar.

    go to this link and scroll to post 69 and something will look familiar

    http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/randy-and-paula-white-to-divorce/

    to the person that posted 5 times, twice using SG’s avatar, you only substantiated Humbled’s point by proving that SG could have very easily posted as an alternate identity. so, I and anybody with common sense, would naturally believe that she was doing that. don’t try to shift it off on somebody else… we know it was her. before last week, there were no avatars, just empty boxes, and so, using the same e-mail didn’t matter because there’s no way of identifying them… another thing… I would not be surprised if the person who has not put a name but kept coming against Humble’s posts (yes, the same person I just mentioned above using SG’s avatar twice) was in fact SG after she realized the very same avatar situation that Humbled pointed out. i noticed you appeared after the avatars started showing up, since your fist post was on 5/12, it seems very likely SG realized her chance of getting caught and created yet another nameless identity. Also, if she was not posting as seeking truth, why didn’t she make a comment about the same avatar, I mean, it’s very obvious that it’s the same avatar. By the way, the e-mail was not used only as “seeking truth” but also to “hey MO and SK” and “hey SK” even though she didn’t put her name, it was easy to find her based on the previous link I posted, and figure out who she was , so why try to hide who she was any longer. but i do commend her, hal, sabrina and gino for putting their names to their posts.

    also, we already know that Hal Guinn used the same e-mail address as SG because the avatar was the same and he put his name. Why be “seeking truth” then himself then “seeking truth” again. yeah, I know what you’ll say, the avatar is different, and the first time it’s seen, so this is somebody that’s already posted. i have. i posted on 5/8. also, i am not “Humbled” and if they do try to say that I am you Humbled, I’m sorry, only trying to offer you support. You know this is not you, so know that you are commended in your stance for love, grace, unity and most importantly, the Kingdom.

    Humbled, I have appreciated your refreshing perspectives on these attacks towards AFC. whether you attend still, or not , I’m just pleased to see that you are trying to grow the kingdom, instead of tearing it down. some are happy that the church lost it’s land. they’re celebrating more than if the Main Attraction got shut down. oh well. continue in your faith Humbled and know that you are commended for your stance, as well. God Bless!

  317. I Agree with Humbled says:

    i also wanted to mention that SG is not the only one… “Still Standing” was also “Full of Hope”, it just removes the credibility of anything that was posted by some of these folks. so, have fun at your own party. 😉 God Bless!

  318. To I agree with Humbled says:

    Who knows you probably made your last post as Humbled by Jesus with a different email address, and now you are “I AGREE WITH HUMBLED”… But who knows right… And for your information- I am not SG… I think SG would’ve had better words for you… But just by reading my comments, does it sound like SG? You are an idiot for thinking that… Get a life and stop defending your stupid avatar argument… How in the world did it shift from BC’s dirt to avatars… Change your name to AVATAR EXPERT… besides, its not just SG posting on here.. or Hal or Sabrina or Gino…

    Lupe Thompson

  319. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Man this is great… I appreciate people coming out and stating that there are OBVIOUS errors in what people are posting…

    Isabel.

  320. Humbled by Jesus says:

    It takes the integrity out of the posts…and Lupe, are you really a Christian? It shifted from BC to the avatars because if people are going to post about criminal activity then don’t leave behind the possibility that what is being said has NO credibility.

    Again, WHERE IS THE PROOF?? Where are the pictures of BC and CL together in seclusion? Where is the web history of RW and his alleged scandal? Where is the video? Where are the documents? Stop talking about it, SHOW ME…

    Otherwise, its all a bunch of hearsay and gossip.

  321. To Humbled by Jesus says:

    I thought your BLOGGIN DAYS ARE OVER… make up your mind foolio…. And dont sit there and judge me- who the hell do you think you are- Mr Perfect?!? or Mrs. Perfect??? Besides, dont mention my name if your hiding behind “humbled by Jesus”… I only listed my name because some people think Im SG… So, you were just waiting for someone to hold your hand and stand with you… Sooo pathetic… Well, my “BLOGGING DAYS ARE OVER”…. just for today… hehehehe… peace!

  322. Lupe Thompson says:

    To “Humbled by Jesus” a.k.a “I agree with Humbled” – Leave a message and ill check in tomorrow.. bye!

  323. Humbled by Jesus says:

    Thank you for your graciousness.

    And, I did sign my name previously.

  324. Lupe Thompson says:

    Last note: Go back and read all my posts to see if I ever mentioned anything about RW’s criminal activities or BC’s and CL’s lies… Hint: “if you cant find my postings, compare the avatars…. you’re good at it… ” take a look….

    SO, did you find anything in my postings referring to any criminal activities or adultery and things of that nature?

    That’s what I thought… So dont come at me when you know very well that I never said anything… And I only asked how it shifted from BC’s dirt to avatars, because that’s all I see on here…. Is people blogging about BC’s lies and people standing up to cover BC’s lies (for example: Humbled by Jesus; Agree with Humbled by Jesus; etc.)

  325. Lupe Thompson says:

    Is it Isabel or Jezebel???

  326. Avatar Expert says:

    i knew you were going to assume I am Humbled but you’re wrong. don’t worry, i’m not. and of course the validity of these posts need to be brought into question. like people have said, it’s easy to stand behind one name, or another on a post, or in some situations, multiple names. but, the validity of these posts are brought into question when it appears that someone is posting as many people to support one side of the story. it changed from BC’s “dirt” when the “dirt” on this blog got exposed as one person posting as many different people. there’s no disrespect for Scott, I hope he continues to let this conversation continue, only because it’s a shame that it’s come to this. pretending to be two or three different people on a blog. Humbled brought up a good point by saying that a person with the same avatar said that they know SG personally… i wonder why. come on now, get off it. besides, having known AFC and it’s members for years, who are you?

    and back to the comment about this being about BC’s “dirt” I think the title of this blog is something like “Paula White Blames God for Her Divorce”, not “Let’s create a blog so those that can’t get past their situations at AFC can vent to the world and assume that they are all right and everybody else that differs from their opinion we will attack them and throw them under a bus (a modern day stoning but without the death)” again, this is not about BC’s dirt, it was created about Paula White. yes, they’ve had a relationship with AFC but in the past, not anymore. when was the last time she or Rick Hawkins preached at AFC, years ago.

    we’ve seen so many people attacked on here that it’s almost sickening. how about this? why don’t we find all the faults in your life and i’m not saying you personally but i’m saying, everybody on this blog, past and present and air them on a blog and let everybody demand a repentance, not to God but to man.

    how would we ever know that you’ve repented of your sins and moved on. if i see you talking with SG on the street, am i to assume that you all are spreading gossip, or could you casually be having a friendly conversation but now my preconceived idea would make me think you’re coming up with a new way to come against AFC. remember, AFC is a body, not just one person. you can’t possibly know that everybody there is choosing to be their because they’re controlled or manipulated. oh, and another thing, just because you attend a church and it’s not 800 people anymore, you think God ain’t moving????? how is that for religion????? just remember, it started with 12…. and i’m not talking about AFC.

    i’m so sick and tired of this… some of you have had therapy from leaving AFC… i’m gonna need therapy from this blog. plus, with the spirit that everybody attack, when i do move from AFC, yes, i know i won’t be at AFC forever…. where the hell will i be going to church after all this. there’s so many people who have a vindictive spirit and attack on such a personal basis i can’t see any forgiveness. forgiveness would not try to rub other people’s dirt on them after they got washed by the blood through repentance. i’d almost rather stay in AFC just to avoid you weirdos. at least i feel loved and accepted and people that believe the best for me and believe in the Christ on the inside of me. i don’t see that coming from everybody else… and now myself included.

    but again, it’s been shifted, you want to say that i’m Humbled, which I’m not. as obvious by my post, right? all i was trying to say was that the avatars bring into question the validity of all 300 something posts on here now, with the exception of the few that named themselves.

    and i’m an idiot. but at least i was trying to be christ-like. trying to represent love and be nice about everything. at least i don’t sit around attacking everybody else posts, oh wait, until now, it was just Humbled you were coming against. i was only saying that i noticed the avatar situation too, and agreed with Humble’s observatiions. don’t you think it’s hard enough for the folks of AFC to get through this as it is…. oh and they will get through it.

    for those i’ve upset or offended by my statements, i’m sincerely sorry, and apologize and ask, plead and implore you for your forgiveness. i repent to God for anything that i’ve said that is not in agreement with His Word or His Will for my life. I am a wretched sinner and have fallen far short of the Glory of God but i’m thankful that you loved me anyway, sent your only son to die for me, knowing that i would be such a terrible and corruptible person. please Father, bless all those who are represented on this blog, and even those who have read this but said nothing, and all those involved. in your awesome love for us, you died for each and everyone of us and gave your precious blood that we may have the awesome opportunity of spending eternity with you in heaven. in the future i ask you to help me to control myself and i know that even as i say this, i have the opportunity to not hit the submit button and i will do it anyways because i’m certain or even hopeful that some people may read this and find it helpful or insightful into something that may help you grow your kingdom. God Bless!

  327. Lupe Thompson says:

    You are most welcome…

  328. Avatar Expert says:

    did i ever stand up for BC’s issues…. nope. and while i was typing my last post, it’s obvious that the conversation continued. proving only that the attacks get personal. “Isabel or Jezebel?” thanks for validating my point. and this is my point about it getting ugly. this is why God advises us not to take issues that belong in the church into the public media because then, the unsaved, who have no issue with attacking, no matter what side they are on, do it in a manner that does not represent Christ. however, with a statement about Jezebel, it’s safe to assume, you know something about the bible, anyways. not an attack, just an observation. God Bless!

  329. Avatar Expert says:

    oh, and SG, please don’t hide by coming out with a post about how blessed your house is. like you have been saying to BC all this time… just come clean. something you haven’t even done on here yet. come clean and admit it. God blesses those who are honest and truthful. admit that you’re posting as multiple personalities. it’s okay, we’ll forgive you. we accept you for you and allow God to work in and through your life. we’ll believe that you’ll be restored.

  330. Lupe Thompson says:

    To Avatar Expert-

    Feel better?!? Give me your address and Ill send you an award for your observations… Bravo!! 🙂 * yawns….

  331. Lupe Thompson says:

    “God blesses those who are honest and truthful” — I like that…. By the way, I would like to come out this Sunday at AFC- care to join me?!? Let me know… 🙂

  332. Avatar Expert says:

    not really, you seem like those type that I wouldn’t want to attend church with in the future. leave AFC to their mission and what they’re doing, and we’ll see all of you in heaven. they don’t need people who attack like you do. i don’t need awards either, mine are being stored up in heaven.

    i might actually feel better. two more posts to try and bring me down or to shift the situation but again, your personal attacks mean nothing to me. but, i noticed you’re no longer disputing the avatar explanation. so, i would like to know what SG has to say about it… but then again, maybe you’re SG under an assumed name. who knows, right?

    i will only stand until this is addressed:
    quit creating posts as different people.
    move on with your life and truely leave things in God’s hands.
    stop with the personal attacks, but if you’re not a christian, then that will be hard to do.

    ultimately though, all of this is now a wash. we don’t know for sure who is who and what is being said by who. from here on out, it will be hard to know who is really posting. we can’t take anybody’s word for it now… especially not SG. sorry, but the credibility has been brought to light. God Bless!

  333. Full of Hope says:

    To I agree with humbled by Jesus.
    This is so funny defending our avitars. Well to explain our mix up, I am the proud husband of Still standing so we share the same computer. When I realized that our posting would have the same avitar I signed in under a different e-mail. This is hilarious and proves why I didn’t use my name. People have a tendency to get off the main point and make it personal. Hope this particular mystery is solved.

  334. Avatar Expert says:

    Full of Hope, i can understand, in your instance, the mix up. however, in SG’s case, it’s not a mix up, it is blatant. that’s why I didn’t go into detail about yours, only the blatant ones. I also agree about the personal nature of the attacks, and you can see I quickly became one of those getting attacked. I tried not to get personal either and felt I had to stand for myself when they did come. thank you for clarifying your situation. however, this whole thing is off the main point, as I stated above. this blog is about Paula White, not a former AFC venting session. like I said, this is pretty much a wash now. no credibility for SG in my opinion. God Bless!

  335. HAL GUINN says:

    To the all knowing “avatar expert” Would you like to see proof that on 5/15/08 at 12:50pm both my wife SG that is Susanne Guinn and myself were at work, neither of us have been in the same city as our computer and if you look back over this blog you will find that Susanne has never hidden her identity from anyone ,SG has always been SG
    Maybe you should change your self given title to “avatar novice” because your obvious attempt to discredit SG by pointing out a silly picture on a screen holds no merit whatsoever.
    Would you like me to post using my name but have a different avatar appear?or post under a different name only to have “our” avatar appear?
    BTW why do you post under a name that is not yours or did your parents actually name you Avatar?

  336. HAL GUINN says:

    Who am I?

  337. Avatar Expert says:

    no, i was not named avatar but much like Full of Hope, i KNEW my post to support Humbled and validate Humbled’s post would draw criticism and attack. that’s fine. and, if you had read correctly, the avatar is not based on a computer but an e-mail address. shoot, my last post was from a phone. i know the one at 12:50pm today was not SG, it was the person before and after those posts, so hold onto your proof. i’m not even asking everybody to post their actual name. i’m asking people to stop posting as alternate identities, which SG had obviously done. that’s all. we can choose to name ourselves on this, as we want, but we shouldn’t have to post as different identities to post a comment complimenting ourselves. that’s creating a false report. and now that it’s come out, it removes the validity of all the posts being posted, even mine. i know SG has been SG, with the exception of these two today. however, SG has also been other identities. sorry Hal but it’s true. again, all this is a wash. God Bless!

  338. HAL GUINN says:

    Hey Avatar shoot me your e-mail address so I can make your silly picture pop up.
    Step up your game a little will you. And in case you can’t figure out who posted the comment at 9:41 suprise!!!! It was me……. HAL

    Full of Hope you are indeed my B.F.A.M!

  339. Avatar Expert says:

    don’t need to step up my game. you’re showing how somebody that opposes you is subjected to personal attacks. thanks again. God Bless!

  340. HAL GUINN says:

    I can tell you without hesitation or reservation that Susanne is not posting on this blog under any name other than her own. Sorry to burst your bubble. She is secure enough in her own identity that she doesn’t need to create some alter-ego to validate herself. …… Keep digging…

    Hey everybody Susanne just called, she is on her way home from a motorcycle ride with her boss so I’ll see you all later.

  341. Avatar Expert says:

    i point out the personal attack calling me a novice and my silly picture, which i have no control of, unless i use a different e-mail. so, then you decide to say that it’s not her but somebody else using your guys’ e-mail. well, then instead of attacking me and my points, simply ask the others to use their own e-mail address. but something tells me you felt you had to defend first. why is that? so people chose, at the same time, to use your e-mail to post as somebody else? i mean, wouldn’t that be more “loving” than coming against those who point out these facts?

    so people chose, at the same time, to use your e-mail to post as somebody else? that doesn’t make sense. it’s all a wash now. however, our point has been proven, credibility is questioned here. have fun at your party, it’s a wash. 😉 God Bless!

  342. SG says:

    Hi everybody. Wow, what a fun evening I had. It was a beautiful night riding my great big 1450cc HD down the 101. We had a blast!!! I AM TRULY BLESSED!!!!!

    Hey Avatar, do you really believe that I don’t have any family or friends that would use my computer to comment in support of me (because they actually know me). and trust what I am doing and why I am doing it? Are you really trying to paint me in a corner by characterizing me as a lone ranger or an “island unto myself.” Nice try there big guy, but you are so obviously upset about the call that has gone out to the church to assemble. Don’t worry about the small stuff friend. There is plenty of evangelism that needs to take place in this county. How about you come together with us and help us to bring genuine revival to this territory. You do got ground game, right?

    Hey family, who wants to get together on Friday or Saturday? Lets have some fun and celebrate the fact that the Church is forever victorious. Don’t worry about who might show up. We are family.

  343. SG says:

    One more thing Avatar, we love you!! Be blessed!!

  344. Bugs Bunny says:

    Whats up doc?

  345. Roadrunner says:

    Beep Beep!!

  346. Speed Racer says:

    Hey Trixie, have you seen Chim Chim?

  347. SG says:

    🙂 good night family.

  348. Avatar Expert says:

    again, it’s not a computer thing, it’s an e-mail thing, as already shown. so, if they did use your computer, they wouldn’t need to use your e-mail, would they? i mean, everybody has at least one e-mail, some two or three. home, work, business, etc.

    also, just because i’m not at your church, or your meetings, or your house, or your side, doesn’t mean i’m not about kingdom business. trust me, i am. i know how much this region is hurting, i know how much revival is needed, i know how much this region needs God. you talk about the church being victorious, but you’re aiding the division. just my thoughts. there are a number of churches that have called AFC during this time with support and love, not practically dancing around the building that it’s being lost. there’s been those that are still at and that have left the church that are offering love and support. so, keep assuming it will fail because it will not.
    i’m not painting you in a corner, i supported Humbled’s observations, and that’s all. why? do you feel painted in a corner?

    who’s revival are you talking about? i don’t want part of your revival. it brings the same spirit that this blog has brought, vindictive anger and hatred, attacks, and division. that’s not a revival i would enjoy.

    sorry to say that but that’s what i’ve felt by reading through this. i see a day where division in the church is abolished, love reigns, Jesus moves and touches the lives of millions in this region, many are called into the body of Christ. but it’s not happening here on this blog. 😮 God Bless!

  349. Avatar Expert says:

    i won’t attack you, i’ll just say that you’re validating what’s been said here today. God Bless!

  350. Avatar Expert says:

    oh, and the fact that i’m sure that Scott appreciates you using his blog to post senseless posts like that. i can act 10 years old too…. Scott it was them, not me. God Bless!

  351. SG says:

    No I did not validate anything you’ve said. When this site appears on my screeen, my email address automatically appears. The various users did not change the email address. Why can’t you just admit that you are wrong. Many people have shown you that you are wrong.

    When someone comes to your house and uses your phone, your phone number is seen on the other end on the caller id, not the callers personal number. It is automatic. Same goes with this particular blog. The email address pops us all by itself. It does not have to be entered every time. So my point is this, you don’t really have a point. Only a far fetched idea that seems like a desperate attempt to discredit someone that you view as a threat of somekind.

    I don’t feel painted into a corner. I feel that you are trying to make a point that really doesn’t change anything about the real issues. Maybe it is you and the people at AFC who feel painted into a corner because no matter what you do or say the reality of the condition of your flock is not changing. At some point, you will have to admit that and when you do or when the leaders do, maybe repentance will come more swiftly.

    I’m sorry you feel so attacked by people who are not buying this whole avatar conspiracy. You need to accept that this isn’t an issue with anybody else other than you and humbled. And we can all understand this desperate attempt to undermine the credibility of someone that you are blaming for your current state.

    The person responsible for the state of AFC, is BC and BC alone. I know without a shadow of a doubt that if he would have repented a long time ago and apololgized to the congregation, the public would have never found out.

    Avatar, you may have the last word. But know that we will continue to stand for righteousness in North County.

    Good night friend.

  352. SG says:

    Excuse me, but I would not want to be a part of a “revival” that promotes fornication, adultery, divorce, abuse of spiritual authority, numerous accounts of incest and even rape, underage and unwed pregancy galore, cursing from the pulpit, cursing of people’s marriages, mismangement of finances, foreclosure, and the exodus of 600 parishoners while the leadership continues to speak out in denial of any wrong doing or responsbility. Divison……I think AFC has the market on causing division in the church……….

    Sorry, you brought it up. Oh, thats right…you were not attacking me……my bad!!

  353. SG says:

    This message is for everyone else.

    It is regretful that a simple thing is being used to bring reproach to the stand that we are making here. I do apologize for this “appearance” of impropriety. Now that I know that an Avatar can cause such an offense to some people, I will ask any other user of my computer, who is not a member of my family, to use their own email address. It just never occurred to any of us that anyone would get so offended by a little picture, but these are the times that we live in.

    I can say this, that this is the worst thing that anybody will be able to use to discredit me and for that I give God all the glory. He has kept me secure and whole for many years and I have not had to resort to any kind of immorality to date. I have not cheated on my husband; I have not stolen money; I have not allowed unrighteousness to permeate every area of my life. I’m humbled by Jesus’ perfect plan of redemption and I thank God for his continued grace and mercy.

    I hope that everyone will take the time to read the post linked above by Avatar. Post 69 date 10/2/07. It is pretty “ironic” what I posted and how this Avatar thing is being used to confuse the real issues. Please read it and tell me what you think.

    For sure for sure, I’m going to bed now. I’ve got a great big weekend coming up. I’ll be at the Escondido Fair on Sunday. Come out and visit. We are the one with all the beautiful clothes. Ladies I promise you’ll find a great bargain. Call me for more info if you want.

  354. Once part of AFC says:

    Such a shame that this is what its coming to. We all have our own veiws and perspectives. Different people will see things in different ways. There are several veiws and angles depending on the eyes you are looking through.

    The truth of the matter is that the loss of 600+ members which included Pastors, Eldors, Deacons, Armor Bearers, and many more means the MAJORITY RULES.

    How many remain in AFC?

    Im not putting anyone down because they are apart of AFC and I commend you for standing up for your church and said leader BC.
    BUT as I have said before I was once blind but now I see. I dident see clearly tell I decided to take a few weeks away from AFC.

    I keep ready how people are saying where is the truth and who has seen them alone together. And my answer to that is if there was no proof do you realy think that all of his top leader’s, Elders, Deacon’s and many more would leave? Would his wife who was one tuff cookie just leave with no proof?

    I personally saw them on a private walk, have seen them alone for hours in the counseling office in the old building. Why would he take the baby after every single service to his office but not his own daughter?

    My point is that there is so much proof out there that it has caused a once great body of people to scatter.

    There are so many more secrets that have not even been touched here…….And they dont need to be, the people calling for repentance are the ones who were behind the closed doors and seen more then have been shared here.

    So if you have no personal knowlege of this situation then stay the hell out of the koolaide………….

    alot of you need to grow the F87K up already and stop fighting over stupid aviators.
    SG is right in calling forth repentance from a sinning brother, HELL we learned it from a once past spiritual father …….HELLOOOOO

  355. Humbled by Jesus says:

    All talk and no proof…what else is knew? Still waiting on documentation, photos, web histories. Who cares if you are discredited or not? NO PROOF all talk. Show me something on paper with your signature on it, and you may have a convert. Until then, you are just the same person posting under different aliases….

    Proof Proof Proof Proof, let’s hear it…the subject continues to change…and still NO PROOF…Just what people allegedly saw…c’mon, where are the pictures of BC and CL hidden in seclusion? In a bed together? Where are the web histories of RW and his scandal? NO PROOF.

    You all lack credibility. May God’s Kingdom prevail. His PROOF is TRUTH. He didn’t hide it…

    There is no confusion. Your email address was used for whomever posted under your name. The fact remains that none of us have seen integrity out of you SG with PROOF to substantiate the case that these aliases are NOT you….

    Maybe if you had FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION OF YOUR ACCUSATIONS, this whole avatar thing wouldn’t be that big of a deal…

    For the last time, still waiting on PROOF…And you have yet to address this…hmmm, I wonder why???

    God is good all the time…

    May the church of the living God move forward. I encourage you SG to start your own church. No joke, you have the heart of many who have left. It may be a good place to start.

    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord in a church we believe in.

    The real issue is PROOF. FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION, REAL PHOTOS, and since it has not surfaced, has been confusing for me.

  356. Once part of AFC says:

    WOW my God WOW

    You seem to get your nerves rattled often……

    I am in no way SG to set the story strait………..I havent seen her or spoke to her sense she left AFC.

    600+ people there is your proof. When I was serving in that house I was blind, why would I have taken photos? I trusted the man of God that I once called my spiritual father. I was tought not to question but toi trust God.

    You really need to take a break from this blog. You have nothing new to add and you are just getting angry because you have no PROOF that all of this is not true.

    My previous message holds alot of weight so just deal with it and move on.

  357. Avatar Expert says:

    validation is coming in the way of your actions and the spirit of your posts. mockery and contempt are a couple of words that come to mind real quick. it’s not the words you speak all the time but the manner/spirit with which they are used.

    others using your computer which already had the information in the boxes…. i knew that one was coming too. so tell me, when i sit down at your computer to post on this blog and i see your name and e-mail address in the spaces provided, why would i change the name but not the e-mail address? i’m not discrediting you, just the credibility of the posts, and who is actually posting.

    the real issues of this blog are not AFC, the real and original issues of this blog was the situation of an interview that Paula White had done on tv. i’m sure the state of AFC is quite fine. by the way, since you don’t go there anymore, what concern is it of yours the state of AFC? just so you know, AFC and BC are two seperate entities and if BC walked today, AFC would continue to follow their God-given mandate, i’m sure of it. i’m not blaming you for the state, because i truely believe that we war against principalities and powers, not with man or woman. so, like i said, i’m not surprised that this kind of response came towards Humbled and myself but i assure you now, there are others who are wondering about the avatar situation. maybe not all but others.

    wow, did i mention anything about the “revival” being AFC… nope. because, i believe that revival is greater than any man, or church. don’t you? or are you assuming that you are the revival? i can lay out each of those issues about fornication, blah, blah, blah, but i assure you, it goes on in more churches than just AFC. but what do you expect, to be a big brother and follow everybody around making sure that they don’t sleep with each other, that every marriage is perfectly okay, that everybody is teaching their kids the 10 commandments? also, get over the 600, will you? you tell me to get over the avatar situation but you can’t get over this situation, a situation that you claim to have removed yourself from but are still doing your very best to stay involved. i can assure you that not all of the 600 left only because of the reasons you try to bring up. some left due to military reasons, some felt that they received everything they needed and moved on to the next step in their life, some left for the reasons that you accuse of, some left after their families moved but some also left and fell into those things that you called out after they left. some left and didn’t grow. i know some were really hurt when they left, and for that i hope Christ can find a way to restore them. i’m sure that your church is spic and span, clear as bell, right? i’m sure it’s perfect? also, i didn’t bring up AFC, you did. i was talking about revival.

    go ahead and ask everyone to post without using your e-mail but like i said before, now that the point has been made, it’s a wash. we can’t be sure who is who, these days. and you say i’m being attacked by everybody, but really, it’s only you, your husband, and Lupe, that’s not everybody. that’s only one person more than me and Humbled, but who knows, it could be one person less than me and Humbled.

    body of Christ, i urge you to press into God, seek His face, follow Him. let Him be your guide. i’m sure, after you’ve spent time with our Father, you will be able to find peace in this matter and know that God will be glorified in it all. don’t be swayed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. listen to the Christ on the inside of you. don’t look to SG, or myself, or any of the others on this blog for direction on what you should do, but know and believe on the inside of you that God is greater than anything in our lives. none of us are perfect, and i require no apologies from anybody, i just urge you to lay at God’s feet, soak in His presence and His love, and He, and He alone will provide for you in every way possible. it’s amazing the grace and love God can show each of us, even in our trespasses. that when out turn from out wicked ways, and seek your face, you heal us. when we call upon your name, you are awesome enough to hear our cry and answer us. i love you Lord! i praise you for who you are and the glorious things you have in this life and the life to come. i worship you for who you are. please God, touch the lives of all those here who call upon your name. leave nothing to chance. i speak blessings over everybody, SG, HG, Isabel, Lupe, Gino, Sabrina, and the others involved with this blog. i pray that you visit them, even tonight and speak to them, reside with them God that your Kingdom will be glorified. and again, i repent and ask for your forgiveness, God, for my wretched self. i ask you to forgive me for allowing the influence of ungodly principalities in my life. i seek to be more like you and to walk in your ways and to grow and establish the kingdom of heaven here on earth. i love each of you. God Bless!

  358. Avatar Expert says:

    600+ people is not proof. again, it’s all hearsay that can spread. i’m not discrediting what you’ve gone through. i’m sure it was hard to see those things and to have all the questions swirling in your head. however, i know TC is one tough cookie and i know she would not leave without just cause. but do you think that maybe all the stress of the building, then all the accusations, of which she knows weren’t true, then to lose close and personal friends, having some of them turn on her, would cause her great harm and grief. my god! this has probably been my one and only day of posting on this blog because the points have been made. i know some of the stories that are out there. maybe not all but some. but, i believe in my God enough to know that He has spoke to me personally.

    once a part… i’m sure it’s been a tough walk. don’t think that the majority represents the heart of the minority. if you were to attend AFC, just attend, not come back, attend, find those that you were close to and i’m sure they would love on you as much as they can. i’m sure you’re missed. i think i can hear your heart, but that’s just me. i offer you this. until you see some of the changes in the last year or so, even the last few months, you can’t understand the change of heart that has taken place in AFC.

    i agree with Humbled (wait, that sounds familiar 😉 )… SG, why don’t you start a church? that way you can do things you would like to have seen done. take what you’ve learned and implement it into your own church.

    to all, i cannot judge and would never judge any of you. everybody is where they are at for a reason. God is the only one that knows everybody’s motives as to why they stay or go. God is still moving at AFC. some may not agree but i assure you, He is. i’ll keep checking in, but i will be looking with a very inquisitive eye, only because I don’t know who is who, really. God Bless!

  359. SG says:

    Goof morning friends.

    Please scroll above a ways and see MY post dated 05/15/08, 8:29am. Read it and then re-read it, please, just so you get the jest of it. Now read all the comments from Avatar and Humbled that follow suit. And then when you get to the most recent ones….read what they say about the Church coming together. Doesn’t this spirit sound very familiar? This is the same voice that kept and continues to keep the body of Christ in constant confusion and mistrust of each other.

    The current situation at AFC is getting worse each day. As we all know, this is due to the continued denials and unrepentant behavior of certain leaders. They cannot stop the hemorage of their church and so they are doing whatever they can to stop THE CHURCH completely. This is same old same old stuff and those of us who’ve experienced these kind of attacks see it for what it really is. You should not be discouraged by it at all.

    Again, leaders of the flock of God. I ask you to step forward and call a gathering of the people of God. Lets unify in what we stand for and cast off the dead clothes of the past. Let the Church arise and come forth. Leaders, I humbly pray for you. I believe God is restoring you all and making you whole. The Body needs you and we are here to follow you as you follow Christ.

    Be blessed family. If anyone has any questions, you can reach me 760.622.9976. I’m always available.

  360. Lupe Thompson says:

    Avatar expert says: that there are others wondering about the avatar sitaution… I dont see anyone but him and Humbled riding on this non sense…Like i mentioned before, it couldve been anyone using SG’s email address, because SG did leave her email addy on this blog… I can easily change myself to SG…

  361. Lupe Thompson says:

    ummm… check out my avatar

  362. SG says:

    ummmmm… check it out again…

  363. Lupe Thompson says:

    so give your observation a rest… Besides, if you are still wondering then maybe you can set up to meet with everyone that are posting on the blog and see who’s who… Since you are so curious…… Oh but then wait– let me guess… you are too good to associate with people like me…. Then stop your lame observations and show us PROOF… Just because you observed the avatars being the same doesnt mean anything… For who knows what- someone could’ve taken SG’s email and name and use to post something on here… doesnt matter what computer youre bloggin from….

  364. Lupe Thompson says:

    speaking of attacks- why are you attacking SG?

  365. Scott W. Kay says:

    Ephesians 4 commands us to “speak the truth in love.” I am a continent away from the AFC situation, so I have no way to know what is and isn’t true about it, but this conversation does seem to have lost some love – among people who appear to not only know each other, but be related to each other in Christ. Very sad.

    So, would every one commenting here take a moment and read a post I recently put up on How Do You Admonish Someone On A Debatable Issue in the Church?

    Would you please do this BEFORE you comment again?

    It might go a long way to helping tone down the comments here – something I suspect everyone involved would appreciate.

    Thank you!
    Scott W. Kay

  366. Sabrina says:

    I also was wondering about the avatars. And to me it makes far more sense that SG was posting as an alter ego, then the likely hood of someone posting with her email address. But that is only my opinion.

    So now theres 3 of us wondering, me, humbled and avatar!

    Sabrina

  367. Avatar Expert says:

    Scott, thank you for bringing the article to our attention. i had already read a portion of it earlier and finished reading it after seeing your post. i find it very pertinent in many ways, so for that, thanks again.

    let me try to improve the way i respond to certain posts. first of all, i would like to say, i prayed for each of you this morning and will continue to do so. i find it’s the best way to make sure to fight off any bitterness or offense that may try to enter into my heart.

    SG, after Scott’s post, i would have to say that first of all, if i caused you any offense, i apologize. however, by the time you entered into the conversation, i had felt what i feared would come and that was personal attacks of being called an idiot and needing to step up my game, but that’s not an excuse, so i apologize. don’t get me wrong, i still find the avatar situation quite questionable. they can re-read your post, but they should also re-read Humbled’s post at 10:42am on 5/15. also, it’s obvious that there’s people on both sides of this fence and i would urge you in the interest of the Kingdom and pursuing “love and unity”, move forward. if you feel that there is still a great void that needs to be filled, start your own church, and take what you’ve learned and move forward. leave AFC to their matters and let God deal with it how He sees fit. you’ve stated your case, repeatedly, and we mostly understand where you are coming from. also, in my opinion, BC and AFC are two seperate entities and i know that AFC would move forward regardless of any outcome of all of these accusations. i can agree to disagree and i know that we have differing opinions. however, it does not make either of us any less/more right/wrong. there are those who agree with you and there are those who don’t. again, you’ve stated your case, so move on and speak about your church and how they are doing great things, and moving in God. this is not any kind of scheme or plan or strategy to try to silence you. it is what it is, an honest attempt at trying to see the kingdom grow and unified, even if the details aren’t agreed upon.

    lupe, again, if i caused you any offense, i apologize. however, you were the one to call me an idiot. you were the one that tried to mock me. but like i said last night, i do not require apologies from anybody. and just to point out, i was not stating that i want people’s names, i actually said that i do not care. i was just stating that it appears, very strongly, that some people have posted as more than one identity to push one side of the story, i agreed with Humbled, who was repeatedly under attack and questioned by you. you repeated yourself with five posts, two using SG’s e-mail. but if you had read my posts, you would have seen that i know that people can pretend to be SG, which i doubt has happened except for your posts trying to make a point. again, Humbled had pointed out and i agreed that it appears that SG created a couple of different posts to support one side of the story. sorry. i still believe that to be true and i can agree to disagree with you on the fact that it takes from the credibility of what’s being said here.

    Humbled, although we appear to be on the same side here, i hope that you are not discouraged at all. i know that you are looking for the proof. even if proof were to show up about every single circumstance that appeared, i would continue to follow God, listen to Him and do as he guides me. *note* i did not say continue to attend or not attend any particular church.

    i find it ironic that Scott shared that article and as i read in the e-mail he posted… “But we felt we couldn’t be ourselves without being shunned or looked down upon.” i thought of my post yesterday when i stated that i would almost rather stay at AFC to avoid people. that’s how i was feeling and have felt reading this particular blog. again, i can agree to disagree. i can stand firm in knowing that God has spoke to me personally about where i attend church and it’s not because anybody has tried to manipulate me. it’s because i asked God personally, and felt my time at AFC is not up yet. it will be some day because i know that i am not called to be a lifetime member, though there may be others who are. also, as i have ended almost every post with God Bless and a couple with prayers for everybody, i would hope that shows my heart in this matter that i am doing my very best to exhibit “love and unity”.

    God Bless each of you and may He continue to be your source and strength. have a wonderful day, enjoy life, reach out to someone who needs the love of Christ, love on your family, build the kingdom of heaven. seek God and remain in His presence that His light and life may show and reflect the love of Christ in everything you do.

  368. GOD'S WORD says:

    To all the my brothers and sisters in the faith I wanted to bring the word of God here to remind us that we are living in the last days.

    Our big brother Paul writes in 2 Timothy 3 There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous without self-control, brutal not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure, rather than lovers of God.– having a form of godlisness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and swayed by all kinds of evil desireds always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

    We are in the last days. Brother will betray brother and houses will be devided against its self we need the wake up brother and sisters

    2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but every one to come to repentance. BUT THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME LIKE A THIEF.

    Please hear the cry of the Lord do not be caught asleep (They think that about 50,000 people were killed in the earthquake on monday in China – we all also can be gone as quick as them) (They passed the right for the same sex to now get married here is california the scriptures are all coming to pass….

    God please keep us in your hand and never letting any of us or the evil one take us out . I pray for all that are in valve bring to them your peace, love, joy, and all the fruit of the spirit restore and make us a new…

    God’s Word said in the last days he will pour out his spirit also and his son’s and daughters will many great things. Lets be on that side with God.
    Much Love to all my brothers and sisters in the faith

  369. BeautyFromAshes says:

    SG wrote: …The current situation at AFC is getting worse each day.

    Should we gather from this statement that you have been attending AFC’s Sunday and Thursday services? Have you joined their current leadership team?

    If not, how can you make a statement like that?

    It seems to me that a more accurate statement would be that in your “opinion, based upon blog activity, it would appear that things are getting worse…”

    Either way, the Bible is very specific about the difference between a Good or Bad/Evil report.

    What’s the difference between a good report and a bad report?

    It’s the spirit of the report that makes it good or bad. A good report can have bad news in it.

    A good report does not mean denying the negative facts. It becomes a bad report when we use the negative facts to build a case for unbelief and to generate fear and promote failure. A bad report is when we add rumor or reinforce rumor with facts and turn the truth upside down.

    Biblically, bringing an evil report (your own or someone elses) puts you outside of God’s protection and covering. We all know what it’s like to be outside the will of God, but His grace is sufficient, when we repent to our Father and seek out His direction, he will forgive us.

    However, the laws of sowing and reaping (action & consequence) will always exist, and God is gracious and does allow us to learn from our mistakes – so repentance may not always result in an immediate cessation of the consequences of our actions.

    Did you ever wonder why Joseph – favored by his father – went through all that he did before he saw God’s plan for his life realized?

    It all started with an evil report. Go back to Gen. 37, it’s really easy to miss, but it is there.

    How about Joshua and Caleb? They were sent out to bring news of the Promised land and only these two brought a good report, all of the others brought an evil report – the consequence of the evil report was never seeing the promised land, while the consequence of bringing a good report WAS the Promised land.

    Something I often ask myself before giving my opinion or when hearing someone else’s: What is the fruit? If the fruit brings peace, understanding, hope, love (I could go on) that’s Godly fruit. If the fruit is anger, worry, strife, confusion, conjecture, etc. then turn away, guard your heart.

    Susanne, you and I have never met, and we may always have different opinions/ perspectives, but as my sister in Christ, I implore you to take care not to give an evil report. As my sister, I want God’s best for your life, I hope to celebrate with you in heaven one day and it hurts my heart to think of the pain that an evil report can bring to anyone.

    I think we all agree that as believers, our words have power – the power that comes from Christ in us.

    Please, let us use our words to speak life and not death, blessings and not curses. Speak Truth (God’s plan) into all situations – regardless of the facts.

    “Speak to things that are not as though they were” that means we have the power to speak life into AFC, speak healing into those who have been hurt, speak restoration to those who have been broken.

    If we do these things, all the rest will fall into place. Let God deal with any sins that may have been committed, He hasn’t needed our help yet, and I have complete faith in Him and His timing. His word does not return void and He told us that our sins will find us out – He didn’t tell us to give Him a hand in fulfilling these things.

  370. SG says:

    Mrs. Satrape, grace and peace to you. Sincerely.

    I would also admonish you to stop trying to get people to pretend that what they know does not exist. This is witchcraft in every sense of the word. You mentioned fruit, yet you ignore the witness of everyone who has told about their experiences at AFC. Whether you want to admit it or not, it is truth to them and you cannot tell them otherwise. Please ask your husband to ask Barry Cook to repent of his sins before the church. The people are not going to follow you or Mr. Satrape just because you have, in your opinion, decided that none of what is being said is true. Many are concerned for you that you are in denial and that you are willing to deceive people while you continue to promote an already failed ministry. Failure due to gross immorality. I understand that you have already made up your mind ,and that is your perogative, but don’t think that you can issue me fake “prophetic warnings” just because I don’t agree with you or your husbands denial (of any wrongdoing on the part of AFC leadership.) I am not impressed with such nonsence. This kind of thing has been going on with AFC leaders for a long time. Several people here on this blog have stated that as fact. Too many have called me personally and told me what they SAW. (I haven’t even posted most of what I heard.) And others have also stated that their recent attendence at AFC gave them a first hand account of the continued dwindling down of support.

    I know you think this is just an evil report, but maybe it is God’s way of showing you that His judgment has already came upon AFC. You’re going to have to admit that someday. I have every hope that God is going to restore His Church in this territory. But I also believe he is going to send men and women who are brave enough and honest enough and even humble enough to not look people in the eye and tell them that their first hand experiences are nothing more than personal opinions. What are 600 people crazy and the hundred of you that are left are the only sane ones?

    I will be happy to work along side of any leader who is willing to do that. Until then, the reality of the situation continues to speak the truth. The truth is not evil just because you don’t want to hear it or accept it.

    We are not full of fear and we do not feal that The Church has failed in anyway. We know that one man’s failure is not the failure of the whole body. Many of the people who are no longer attending AFC are stating that they are happier, healthier, and more free than they ever were while attending AFC. So again your opinion or what is an evil report is based upon your own personal filter of this situation.

    The truth is we both want the same thing. I’m just not willing to deceive people into getting what I want.

    I will finally say that I am not a dual poster on this sight and that more than one person in my household not only uses the same computer but the same email address. And that is the last time I’m going to address that silliness.

    Until we are formally introduced, you can call me Mrs. Guinn. Susanne is a little familiar of you considering that we don’t know each other.

    Thank you Scott for your post.

    In time the church in North County will be restored under the Banner of Jesus Christ!!

    Until then…much love to the family.

    When the true leaders of NC stand up, please give us a call. We will be happy and honored to co-labor with you for the continued Kingdom success.

    SG-

  371. BeautyFromAshes says:

    Mrs. Susanne Guinn… you lost me at Mrs. Satrape.

    She and I are not the same individual.

    Again, you have made assumptions about me, who I am, what I want, what I mean, etc.

    Maybe later I’ll be able to read your message – right now… blah

  372. SG says:

    To God’s Word: Great Scripture!! Thank you.

  373. SG says:

    To Avatar. I accept your apology and I’m sorry you felt attacked.

    I have to though, you are wrong about me being dishonest about my identity. I can see where the appearance of evil may have come in, but I assure you that is all it is.

    Don’t worry about trying to silence me, only God has that responsibility and yes, I will hear Him when He tells me to stop. Count on it.

    Love and much prayers to you and yours. I hope that you too will move forward and fulfill all that God puts on your heart through His Word, His Spirit and under the dutiful direction of God appointed leadership.

    Be Blessed!

  374. SG says:

    Hi Sabrina, how is your marriage? Are you and Abe overcoming? I’m glad to know you’ve made it through some pretty tough times. Be encouraged! In God you will overcome whatever mistakes were made to ultimately fulfill your divine purpose.

    Be blessed!

  375. SG says:

    For Ashes: You obviously red my post. My direction to you about addressing me in an appropriate manner was at the end of the comment. BTW, thank you!

    You’ve been following this story for all long time going from Blog to Blog defending either Ron Satrape or his assumed leadership role at AFC. This is very characteristic of a wife. I don’t blame you. I would defend my husband just the same…. as long as he wasn’t leading another astray or being led astray himself.

    I do admire your loyalty and devotion to your man of God. It is commendable.

  376. BeautyFromAshes says:

    I have made it clear already that I am NOT Mrs. Satrape, nor is Apostle Ron Satrape my husband. Being mistaken for this annointed woman of God is a compliment, so… thank you, I accept that compliment.

    Anyway, after spending time in prayer, I read your message, prayed some more, and will address the comments you have made to me.

    In all honesty, the human side of me would like to shake my head in frustration and ponder how once again, you have skipped over the message, made assumptions, put words in my mouth, and twisted (in some cases fabricated) what I have written.

    We serve loving God, he has yet to give up on me, so by His example, I’ll give this another try.

    You clearly missed the entire message of my post, if you truly want to grasp the difference between a good and bad report, go back and read what I wrote – read the scriptures for yourself, don’t just take my word for it.

    Pay close attention to the fact that a Good report CAN have bad news in it and does NOT deny negative facts. The difference is the spirit behind the report.

    1. Show me where I have tried “to get people to pretend that what they know does not exist”. Why am I so certain that I have not done this? Because it isn’t even close to what I think.

    2. According to Galations, witchcraft is “works of the flesh”. I ask you to show me where I have practiced witchcraft. I have not, and your statement directly suggests that I have. The very definition of false accusation.

    3. I would have to be blind and deaf to not be aware of the feelings of those who have stated them, however unless every former member identifies themselves and expresses their feelings, it would be an assumption to say that the feelings that have been expressed are also shared by every former member.

    Feelings, perspectives, past hurts & experiences belong to each individual and I have not told anyone that they are not entitled to them.

    4. At no time have I claimed that the past or present leadership is without fault – they are humans. I have asked for proof – beyond assumptions – of specific accusations that I know to be untrue. I have also reiterated the concept of innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

    5. Just a few days ago you practically gave a sermon on wives submitting to their husbands, and yet when you thought I was Mrs. Satrape you told me to “ask your husband to…” First off, if she thought Barry should do something, I can assure you that she’d express that to him herself. Secondly, she would not try to direct her husband in this matter as he is both the spiritual head of their household AND now the spiritual head of AFC. Shoot… if I thought there was something Barry should do, I’d tell him myself. I will not tell him to stand up and lie to God’s people by admitting to things he has not done so others will be quiet.

    6. Do not be concerned about Apostle Ron Satrape or anyone close to him. He has a saying that applies here: Why worry if you pray, why pray if you worry. He has not gone into this situation blindly, nor is he new to it. He has been working with AFC for several years. Accusing him of being “willing to deceive people while you [he] continue[s] to promote a failed ministry” is yet another false accusation.

    7. Forclosure and failure are two completely different topics. Losing a building is not the end of a ministry… it’s the end of an address. “Failure due to gross immorality” is a statement based on assumption and supposition – unless you saw these gross immoral acts for yourself, you have only made a guess.

    8. “prophetic warnings” – Where exactly did I purport to issue you a prophetic warning?!?

    9. As for the continued “dwindling”… the facts don’t support these statements and if they did, what an excellent opportunity to speak LIFE into the situation.

    10. God is not bringing judgement upon AFC! He has provided the body and it’s leaders an opportunity to see where they need to grow – many have seized this opportunity to do exactly that!

    You see, that’s the God we serve. A God who gives us the opportunity to learn from our mistakes – and in doing so we are also given an extra measure of grace so that when our brother or sister stumbles, we will reach out a hand to pull them up – not lecture or admonish them while they lie bleeding and broken. It is our humanity that reminds us that without God we have little to offer, but with Him, there are no limits.

    11. Again, show me where I’ve accused 600 of being crazy and (according to you) 100 sane.

    12. Your whole paragraph on fear and failure is yet another example of misplaced emphasis – read the WHOLE thing. The comment about my “filter” comes out of left field – go read the scriptures, I have more if you’d like them.

    13. You said “The truth is we both want the same thing. I’m just not willing to deceive people into getting what I want.” Show me where I’ve deceived one person. The pattern of false accusation continues to manifest!

    All of those who have been affected by this situation remain in my prayers.

    “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:11-12

  377. BeautyFromAshes says:

    Ya know… I could actually respect your directness if you just called me a liar straight up.

    Believe what you like about my identity…

    as I’ve asked my child when upset over being called names: If I called you a purple alligator would you suddenly stop being human and turn into a purple alligator? What if I got the whole town to call you a purple alligator, would that turn you into one?

  378. Red Zone says:

    good report and bad report?!? hey! i really enjoyed that message by Ron Satrape two or three Sundays ago… hmmmmm….

  379. BeautyFromAshes says:

    So did I… but you already knew that 🙂

  380. Red Zone says:

    I was being fatecious… Because people kept repeating the sermon of good report and bad report… The reason I knew the message was preached two weeks ago was because a current member at AFC mentioned this to me…. And I think you took SG’s comment out of proportion… But then again, you are entitle to your own opinion… Thanks for sharing your thoughts…

  381. Red Zone says:

    Hey Beauty-
    Im a former member of AFC…. And I now reside in Orange County… I got to admit that I left for different reasons… I didnt leave because of the divorce, the lies, and so on so forth… I didnt leave because of BC, TC, VL or CL or RW or whoever…. I left because of my job and other family ties… But recently my brother and his wife, who were also members of AFC, left the congregation (it hasnt been a year)… Their reasons are the same as of SG and the rest who are fighting to bring some light to the situation…

    I didnt want to believe the stories I heard, and decided to visit AFC on mother’s day with the joys of my life (sons: Mark & Josh)… I had tears in my eyes when i walked in the church and noticed the difference… The AFC I left a long time ago was on FIRE… was filled with the Holy Spirit… was loving and caring… was walking in the LIGHT, and living the word of God… The congregation was filled with AWESOME members who loved the Lord and served Him faithfully… BUT- the AFC I walked into on Mother’s day was not the same… I left and there were about 800 members and during my visit I only saw about 100 give or take members + visitors… Like I have mentioned on my posting from 5/15/08 – this is clearly an outcome of something that is not of God…

    My brother and wife are seeking help at the moment… My brother is a strong man of God, and I have never seen him this way… His is really hurt by what he knows about BC and CL… I will NOT speak of what he told me regarding BC and CL and TC and VL, because within due time if there’s any truth to what I heard – God will reveal.

  382. SG says:

    Okay Ashes, I was trying to be nice, but it seems like you want it rough so you can whine about being attacked.

    I think you are a liar and you will say anything to promote yours and Satrape’s agenda to cover Cook’s sin while you live on the East Coast completely disconnected from what is really going on.

    Are you happy now?

    We are not giving an evil report. AFC and its leaders are receiving a not so favorable report card from the people who were actually there for years and years. Sorry, your opinions really don’t mean much here. I can appreciate your input, but don’t get mad at me just because they have no weight.

    Hope you and Satrape can come out to visit SOCAL again this summer. I bet these little vacations from the humidity of the East coast are a delight. Good thing you can write it all off as a TRAVEL EXPENSE.

    🙂

  383. Once part of AFC says:

    This is a SHAME that all you guys just keep going back and forth over pity JR HIgh stuff.
    Create an AFC blog already, call a city meeting, or move on.
    We all who know its true want repentance and want healing for all who were hurt, but this is gettting very petty and childish.
    Im ashamed…………………

    RedZone said it all too well, how much more proof do you need.

    Good Luck JJ I hear you are preaching this Sunay. You were one who always encouraged me and lifted my head. I still hold your Profetic words for my life.

    To everyone else its time to show some maturity and some respect for the author of this article and grow up alreaady. SG I believe in what your doing but this is by far oput of control and should be done in a different matter.

    AFC was really good about going down to City HAll and fighting for what they believed. Have a meeting if need be in a central location with htis new man who runs AFC and believe me the people will come.

  384. SG says:

    Once Apart: We have been in communication with Satrape about that meeting. He never followed through. We wanted to meet with him and Cook and ask Cook the direct questions. We agreed that Satrape should act as the mediator even though he has shown great bias.

    Ex AFC staff members and close associates of BC also emailed him about their first hand experiences. And to date, Satrape has ignored all and continues to say, “Prove it.” He expects a creepy video or pictures to pop up before he will accept what people actually witnessed as truth.

    Unless we are willing to take Satrape’s word for it that Cook is innocent, he won’t meet with anybody. He may consider it to be a waste of time.

    Yes, Cook is required to be present because he is still being publically represented as the AFC leader. He has not stepped down publically. If he is going to remain in the headship of AFC, he will need to give an account to this community for what has happened. We ask again for his public apology for his responsibility for what is taking place in an honest and truthful manner. No wordplay, no denial, just honesty. He will have to trust that we will be able to accept that apology and move on.

    We are not bringing this before City Hall to judge. We are bringing it before the church.

    Yes, things have gotten trite, but that is because the defense of such misconduct is petty stuff. It does not offset what has happened no matter how much rhetoric or propaganda is pumped into this community. Like the whole evil report message. That has been on the AFC website for at least 6 months yet still the members keep leaving.

    I’m sorry that it has gotten to this point. AFC has and continues to use poor judgement in their leadership of this situation. They underestimated the community’s need for proper discipline to take place. We were never going to accept denials. Sorry.

    Remember, it has been me that has called for the meeting over and over. Again, I ask the leaders of this community to call a gathering of the people. We will come.

  385. SG says:

    For the sake of the wounded and weak who are fearful in this situation, I will tone it down on this blog. I’m sorry…. truly I am for everyone who is vulnerable.

    To the AFC leaders, if you continue to fight this on the blog and not agree to meet outside of the blog, it is to your credit that more people are being hurt by all this. You’ve had opportunity after opportunity to meet privately, but you refuse at the expense of the people you say you are here to SERVE.

    We both know where we stand and I will not allow you to continue to abuse this community, so for now I will look forward to seeing you in public. We’ll take care of this then.

    Be sure, I’m not conceding at all. My challenge to BC remains. I implore you in Christs stead to repent and apologize to this community.

    Good bye for now friends.

    You know how to contact me.

  386. BeautyFromAshes says:

    Red Zone:
    Thank you for your honesty, my heart goes out to your family and I pray that they find the help they need to heal from their experiences so that all of you can go on to fulfill God’s call on your lives. May I stand in the gap for those who have caused you pain? If so, then I would like to say that I am sorry for every hurt, dissapointment, and ungodly behavior you have endured; I stand in the gap and ask you to forgive me.

    I can say from personal experiences that God can use the deepest hurts and dissapointments to provide us with an opportunity to see His hand in our lives in an awesome way.

    It’s the “night times” of our lives that give Him the opportunity to reveal Christ in us and our Father’s love for us and others. A Pastor/Prophetess from Austria recently told me that if we’ll let Him, God can take the most hurtful experiences in our lives and turn them into the most beautiful healing ministries – he can heal that pain and use us to help others have had the same experiences!

    SG:
    That wasn’t so hard was it? Those are your true feelings, accept them and go forward.

    As for whining about being attacked… who has the time? Why would I start now – there’s work to be done!

    I know you would like to think that you have upset me, but takes a lot more than false accusation to get me going. You seem to think that I have been antagonistic in my communications, but I have carefully chosen my words and my questions continue to be dodged.

    For the record, O’side was once my home, too.

    Last I checked 12-14 hour work days do not constitute a vacation; but as most of you know, being where God wants you to be, doing what He sent you to do is often rewarded with a renewed spirit and the energy to keep going.

    BTW… A tax write off goes against an income line. Apostle Ron and others from his area who are helping him are NOT being paid for their time.

    Not being paid because they can’t be bought. We all agree that God wants us there and God will provide. Personally, I do not hold a paid ministry position with any church, so my time spent working on anything AFC related (from either coast) technically costs me money, I look at it as an investment into the kingdom.

  387. SG says:

    Ashes: I have not ever been untrue about my “feelings” about this situation. If you look back over the blog that is a little obvious. Will you please stop thinking so highly of yourself to believe that you have this situation figured out and everyone involved as well. I promise you that you do not.

    Satrape’s ministry does have somekind of line of income. The travel expense does not have to be offset by direct income from a specific place. I know, I am a book keeper and credit manager of an international company. Are you saying that he is paying for the airplane tickets, hotel, food, tips, local transportation, clothing, etc out of his own pocket and not out of the ministry account?

    What do you think our investment is in…koolaide? You haven’t logged enough hours to even begin to cover the investment that our family alone has made and will continue to make into this community. When is the last time you wrote a check for $10K toward AFC. Oh thats right, nobody has done that in awhile….hence the foreclosure.

    You stated 12-14 hours a day working all towards helping Cook recover from his downfall yet you also want us to believe that you have no bias in this situation and that your totally about the corporate Body in this community, yet you refuse to meet with anybody that will not accept all the public denials………

    For the record, North County is my home and has been for over 15 years.

    Again, this is not about YOU!! So why would you think that I think you are upset????? Lady, you’re getting us nowhere. Remember if you think you are leading and no one is following you, you are only taking a very long walk. We’ll see you again after the next lap.

    Call me when you’re ready to get serious.

  388. Both Ways says:

    I see it going both ways. How can you assume that you know the heart of AFC and it’s leadership team? You may have been in and be in contact with past leaders and staff but that does not reflect the heart of current leaders in any way.

    By your own admission, many of the past “leadership” have left. This is the leadership thatyou were under and by the admission of many, the current leadership is almost all comprised of people who were not leaders during your time or even the time of when they moved into the building on El Camino Real. Sounds like your targets should be those that have left but wait, now you’ve befriended them because there’s more dirt to add to the story, right?

    As a past member, I did not leave AFC for any reason other than God instructing me to. I knew of all the accusations but it in no way reflected on my decision. I still visit from time to time and enjoy it greatly when I do.

  389. SG says:

    No you are completely wrong about what you are saying about my relationship with past and present AFC leadership. Here is why.

    First and foremost, Barry Cook is THE leader of AFC. Others are working with him and under him, but make no mistake about it, he is the leader of AFC. I do not hold any other leaders responsible for this situation in a direct way. Barry Cook is the founder and creater of all that AFC was and is today. The rest were mere followers and did exactly what they were told to do when they were told to do….especially if they knew what was good for them. Anyone who stepped out of line was attacked and I mean attacked for their perceived insubordination. The leaders that are speaking out now about these experiences and more are openly admitting their mistakes and have actually contacted those that they could to repent to them for their involvement. Many on these leaders are being received with open arms and are admired for their honesty. In my book, they are the true pastors of the flock.

    Barry Cook, Ron Williams, Carlton Sauls, Veronica Lopez Williams are current and past leaders of AFC. The latter three continue to go along with what they are told to do just like those before them. Regardless of their actions, we hold BC ultimately responsible. He is the one who refuses to directly address the allegations of misconduct. If and when he decides to do this, those that are following him will change their tune as well.

    The “story” that the ex-leaders are telling, (BTW, many have just left within the last few months even weeks…they were there before 4055 to El Camino) is about confession and restitution to the Body. They are telling their story to get back at BC. They are telling their story to the people asking for forgiveness for the way that they came against all the people who left because they could not deny the truth any longer. They realized they were deceived themselves, yet they do not use this as an excuse for the way they treated the family. So their “story” isn’t about vengance, it is about reconciliation.

    To those leaders, you know who you are, we ALL love you and bless you to fulfill the will of God in the territory. We know you need time to heal from your own personal wounds, but know this…when you are ready to reengage, we will be there to gird you up in every way. We will not withhold our time, talents, or finances out of offense. I trust you and I will gladly serve the Lord by serving you and this territory.

    We trust you because you obviously have enough love in your hearts for the people to go all the way to the cross for us. You risked rejection, but you put away your pride and came to us and extended honor and respect. In turn, we give you the same.

    We extend grace and patience to give you the space you need to be made whole and to restored HOLY unto HIS service.

    We love you family.

  390. SG says:

    Correction: They are telling their story NOT to get back at BC….

  391. SG says:

    Barry Cook, please come before the congregation and confess your wrongdoing; apologize for the years of deception; and allow THE CHURCH to witness your humility before God and man.

    Barry Cook, be ye reconciled to God and to THE CHURCH.

  392. Current AFC Leader says:

    I am a current AFC leader, and from my experience (the past four years) the things you are talking about SG are not occurring. I know a lot of the people you speak of and they are gone. How can you compare what is old to what is new?

    You can claim any one of us are attached to the old wine skin, and I really don’t care that you can’t believe otherwise. I don’t care that you are so stuck on the past that you can’t move forward, as a matter of fact, NONE OF US care that you are trying to prevent a ministry from moving forward that WON’T be held back.

    No leader wants to call you, what is that going to solve? Why bother? So we can hear “your side”? Why would anyone want to meet with you that holds a leadership position at AFC? You have defamed my friends and all I know is that God judges EVERYBODY. You don’t possess a “Get out of jail free” card because of the “dirt” you presume to have on BC. And why would ANYONE want to put there name on here just to have you turn right around and intimidate them and slander them? Is that really Christ like?

    Why do you keep referring people to bring back the church? The church is here! You either operate in it or you don’t. $10,000 check? Are you bitter or proud about giving this money to the kingdom? Or has it become painful to see the church you seem to think you help build in foreclosure?

    Don’t you get it? This was NEVER about you or your money and the money you sowed into a BUILDING.

    You want a church that no longer exists, memories that will not be recreated, good times and fellowships with people that are now part of the past. Trying to bring something that WAS is NOT God, it is mans self serving way of not knowing how to let go.

    600 people leaving proves that AFC failed in a variety of ways, do we ignore that fact? No we don’t. We are improving and growing and being restored. Do you think fighting fire with fire is conducive to moving forward with God’s Kingdom?

    Look, I get you have your convictions, but posting people’s names, trying to talk about a leadership that you OR the people you know are no longer a part of, is not showing diligence in you trying to prove your side.

    AFC WILL MOVE FORWARD, the fact that you want BC to repent is not going to stop this ministry. 600 did not leave because he did not repent, they left because they were too focused on the leaders, and when the leaders they were tied to left, so did they. Don’t sit here and assume that 600 people are all gone for the same reason. Did you speak to all 600 to know that?

    All I know is that as AFC moves forward, so does the will of God, we have witnessed the hand of God upon the church despite His will for the building. The opportunities that have been presented to us truly show us that we must continue moving forward no matter how defeated we feel due to all the attacks… Quite frankly, I’d rather move on than to stay in a building that was built by self serving leaders and congregation that supposedly sowed into the Kingdom but now are complaining about their money that went down the tubes. Where was your heart when you sowed?

    Your comments about Ron Satrape show just how much you don’t know regarding the state of the flock, the leadership team nor the direction we are going.

    What happens when this blog is shut off? What happens when the forum you have been speaking from no longer exists? Where will you take your story to then? We hear your opinions post after post, and nothing changes. People come promoting fruit and you can’t seem to move forward. I heard some stuff about your son, is it really necessary that all this spewing back and forth continue? Can someone challenge you about your alter egos from this blog and the history of your family?

    Look, we all fall short, we all are sinners, we all make mistakes. Your attitude that you are right and 600 people leaving reinforce that view of your righteousness only tell of your self absorption that you believe God has commanded you to be the judge on Earth.

    I’m over it. Over you, reading this blog, all you make us want to do is keep going. We won’t back down, let up or be still just because you are God reincarnated who knows everything. People like you make me realize that there are so many more important matters in this world, like saving people, restoration, grace, and making sure my kids are well equipped for life.

    As a leader for AFC and in being diligent to protect my family from being thrown around in the media and having the wrong spirit saying our names, I stand up for what we are doing, I believe in the mandate, I believe in the 50 kids that are at Super Sabado getting saved and filled with the Holy Ghost, I believe in the people I am pastorally connected to who come to hear and feel the presence of God week after week, even if they aren’t the same people you went to church with in the “past”… and I believe that no matter what God prevails.

    Before you come and attack me about what I don’t know about the “past”, remember, I don’t live in the “past”. I don’t live where ex-members resided. I live in a church of the LIVING GOD, who is CURRENT, ALIVE AND REAL. The past is gone, no matter how much you try and hang on to it.

    Forever in His Grace,
    AN AFC CURRENT LEADER.

    – I hope everyone reads through my whole comment before taking things out of context, including you SG as I won’t be posting here again but I’m sure you will.
    I believe in God, I believe in the church and I believe in HIS JUDGMENT and HIS JUDGMENT only.

    Again to protect my family from the mistreatment of names I’ve read here, I won’t leave it. If the environment were loving and producing momentum to move forward, I might have had a different opinion.

  393. SG says:

    Wow, Wow. Thank you for posting the heart and spirit of AFC and its leaders. Now it is on the record. There will be no more confusion from now on as to why so many people have left and continue to leave AFC. I feel sorry for the kids who came seeking the Lord to find themselves in a den of wolves.

    God protect them and lead them down straight paths. Do not let the corruption of this iniquity come and steal away their innocence. Speak unto the hearts of the fathers and mothers and reveal to them that they must remove these vulnerable babes from this vileness and reproach. They came looking for you and because of your grace they will not be dissappointed.

    Father you know the lives that were utterly defiled from this atmosphere that denies the work of sanctification in the lives of your people and you brought it out of hiding to warn THE CHURCH. Father, in Jesus’ merciful name, lead your people to safety. Lead them by the spirit of truth. I know that the lifespan of this disease will eventually run out and nothing will be left, but God do not allow another innocent to be offended by such corruption.

    You will bow your knee to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. You will NOT continue in the Spirit of Jezebel you murderous demon. Come out in Jesus Name. We defy you in your pursuit of innocent blood and condemn your works to the lowest and uttermost parts of the earth.

    The CHURCH will not relinguish this territory to you. We take it now in the name of the MOST HIGH and declare that the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached. We will have free access and we will take dominion in all righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    I speak Freedom to North County in the Matchless and Wonderful name of Jesus Christ. Let THE CHURCH arise. And let the name of Jesus Christ be lifted up over every name that is named. We will not relent. We are promised the victory.

    Leaders arise, take your place, position yourselfs to walk boldly in the victory of the Lord. Our enemy is defeated. THROW HER DOWN!!

  394. HG says:

    Bravo, what an award winning performance from Beauty, Avatar, Humbled and Current AFC leader. I give you all two thumbs down for your attempts to distract the readers from the true issues that have been revealed and will continue to be brought forth on this blog and others.

    News flash….. your fifteen minutes are up, the crowd (600) has left the building, the building is in foreclosure, and the lights are about to be shut off and instead of leading the remnants of this church ‘from the front’, Barry has decided to stick his head in the sand and hope that when he comes out of hiding it will all be alright.

    Sorry Biff, it doesn’t work that way. In other words it does not matter what type of tone you send messages with, i.e. inflammatory, spiritual, avatar reading, scripture laden etc. it doesn’t stand up – hold up – or carry any weight in the court of public opinion.

    The senior pastor, apolistic team leader or whatever BC is callling himself these days has wronged hundreds of people throughout his tenure as a spiritual leader in this area and currently according to Mr Satrape, he (Barry) is insulating himself. It doesn’t matter if he or any one else in the world thinks he abused or hurt others over this entire period. What does matter is what the individual members and yes former leaders feel, happened to them. Just like sexual harrassment on the job, the crime is the actions or one person and how those actions impact the physical, mental, and emotional state of the victim.

    If you currently attend AFC and you have no knowledge of wrongdoings by BC and don’t feel any apprehension about continuing to suppprt this man and his ministry, go right ahead and do what your heart leads you to do. Personally I believe that is it not a matter of if , but a matter of when you will be disowned, disbanded and left desolate in your spirit from this ministry, once again it is my opinion only.

    If you currently attend AFC and are in leadership and continue to support BC under the discription of ‘new leaders and new vision’, but you do know of misconduct and behavior by any at AFC and you try to silence and discredit those who have left but choose to speak out their knowledge and describe their pain…….. shame on you!

    To all who have attended or served at this church and desire to voice your opinions or tell your stories I urge you to continue. If you have something to express please do so, no matter which side of the fence you are on. Scott has been so very gracious in allowing this forum to run it’s course and I feel we should use it. I don’t post a lot, but when I do it is because I think of the voiceless members who can’t speak out for themselves, those who were negatively impacted and those who are continuing being impacted with manipulation without their knowledge. (once again, my opinion)

    I was supposed to address Super Sabado this post but after reading the last several days of entries, I will save it for next time.

  395. Once part of AFC says:

    Just a note the 600+ who left did not FOLLOW anyone out of the church………………Handfuls of us were pushed out when we asked questions and seen things that were not meant for us to see.
    I was removed from ministry, followed through the church, ignored and spiritualy violated for making one innocent comment about someones smile and its resemblance.
    and YES I say innocent, I still thought with all my heart the baby was VL and new nothing at that point of the rumors.

    So dont assume people were just following others out. You oviously dont have a clue of the past. I do commend you for moving forward.

  396. FYI says:

    -“The new AFC” is being kicked out of the building

    -BC lives in a 5 bedroom house on a golf course

    – The Church note hasn’t been paid since August 2007

    -hmmmmm…

    BC is about to ride off into the sunset and leave you all holding the bag, fighting his battle. When it’s all said and done many will feel foolish, But it’s not hopeless just repent

    FYI – VL is preaching tomorrow night at New Vision off Sycamore at 6:00p.m.

  397. Red Zone says:

    To Current AFC leader-
    you sounded very frustrated and slight bitter about SG and SG alone… I just wanted to let you know that I was one of the people that left early on when the church was on Fire… I didnt leave because of BC, the lies, and divorce and so on so forth… I left for other reasons…. However, my brother and wife left a couple of months ago because of what they saw and know about CL and BC…. My brother is a strong man of God, and so is his wife… Right now they are seeking counseling, because they feel abused spiritually… Just want you to count TWO for the people that were hurt through the lies and more lies within the church… I wonder how many of the 600 will come forward and agree… Maybe not the entire 600 will agree but I know that most likely majority will…

    How do you tell someone to forget about the past and move on? The thing is, you cant really run from your past, it will follow you whereever you go… I am only coming forward on behalf of my brother and wife… Because they are really hurt through this whole ordeal. It just comes across that you dont care about the people that were hurt… I’ve always known that there was a part of AFC that serves the Hurt & the Hunger… And you are in here walking all over our loved ones…

    I have no ill feelings towards AFC or BC or CL or TC or RW– but I would really appreciate it if you wouldnt make your comments so general about people that are hurt should just move on… because my brother and sister in law are included in that comment… And they are not even blogging on here…

    Wishing the best and many blessings on AFC… Thanks!

  398. Still Standing says:

    I tried to draw significance and acceptance from my performance instead of what Christ did for me on the cross. And that was my fault. But as I have had a chance to receive professional , Christian counseling I can look back and see how my need for approval was exploited at AFC. The constant belittling, put-downs, and comparing one person to another really affected me. It caused me to neglect my first ministry to my family and buy-in to this performance-based religion. After coming out of it and learning more about it, I learned through counseling that this is the M O of spiritual abuse. So the BC, CL saga took a back seat to that.

    To those who say leave us alone and move on, I want you to know that there is a sense of responsibility that we feel to those of you who may still be under this. You would never tell a child that’s been raped to move on even if her offender is still free to hurt others. Please try to put yourself in our position.

    To those who say, AFC is under different leadership and it’s not like it was, well I say show proof of repentance by admitting that’s how it was. These people aren’t crazy! Don’t be so vague in your proclamation that it’s different. What’s different? What’s changed? What was wrong? There is so much grace for the humble. That’s what we’re looking for so we can move on and be assured that babes in Christ aren’t experinecing what we did.

  399. Both Ways says:

    So, do you all assume that you hear God and the current members and leaders of AFC don’t? I understand that some of you have seen or experienced things that you did not agree with or that even hurt you. There were things that I didn’t always agree or like what was done but I understood that thay are human and in so being, understood that God has given them grace and love and so should I. In a sense, that allowed me to know that God is my source and nobody else. I don’t excuse their actions and decisions, I only keep it in perspective.

    But, I can also say, that those I still talk to are walking out a new heart towards leadership. I think the Current Leader posted good insightful information but you can’t say that one person represents all of the leadership. They can only represent their thoughts and heart. So, again, it goes both ways. I don’t think that by saying that people left following leaders, which they did, that they were saying everybody did. I’ve seen it said that this is about BC’s issues but it’s not. By the actions, you’ve come against leaders and members of AFC only because they didn’t sit on your side.

    Just to let you know, if I was still at AFC and you were trying to bring these things to my attention. I’d stay, again, only because God would have me there. But I was aware of a lot of these things before God moved me from there.

    Also, I know some of these past leaders have called people to repent but shouldn’t that be towards the people that are still at AFC too? Or are they disqualified because they’re still serving at AFC?

  400. Red Zone says:

    What a mighty God we serve!!

    As Believers You are Saved (Heb 7:25)
    Forever by Grace through Faith, (Rom 5:1,2)
    Forgiven, Accepted, Beloved of God, ( Eph 1:7; Rom 15:7; Rom 1:7)
    Servants of the Most High God, (Acts 16:17)
    New Creatures, Dead to Sin, Alive to God, (2 Corin 5:17; Rom 6:11)
    Walking in the Newness of Life, (Rom 6:4)
    Baptized into Christ Jesus, (Rom 6:3)
    The Temple of the Holy Spirit, (1 Corin 6:19)
    Clothed with Christ, Holy, Blameless, (Gal 3:27, Heb 3:1; 1 Corin 1:8)
    At peace with God, (Rom 5:1)
    Christians, YOU ARE, born again, (Acts 11:26; 1 Pet 1:23)
    Partakers of the Divine Nature (2 Pet 1:4)
    Empowered by God (Eph 3:20)
    Children of Promise, One in Him (Gal 4:28; Gal 3:28)
    The Body of Christ (1 Corin 12:27)
    Seated in Heaven, Kingdom Citizens, (Eph 2:6; Phil 3:20)
    A Royal Priesthood, vessels of Honor, (1 Pet 2:9; 2 Tim 2:21)
    Salt of the Earth, Light of the World, (Matt 5:13-14)
    Soldiers of Christ, Fishers of Men, (2 Tim 2:3 ; Mk 1:17)
    Ministers of Reconciliation (2 Corin 5:18)
    VICTORIOUS (1Corin 15:57)

  401. What's happening at AFC says:

    We can fight sides all day long….

    But just for the record, the “new” (as some people here have called it) AFC has a building to continue moving forward with God’s plan…

    For the record, we have dozens of children going to Super Sabado every week getting saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and have a team of teachers who have a genuine concern to see these kids stay off the streets from selling drugs or joining gangs…

    For the record, over 10 people dedicated their lives to Christ and were baptized today,

    For the record, babies were dedicated today to the Kingdom of God with their parents being delivered from past sins and restored to a new place in Christ,

    For the record, for the past three months, our attendance has gone up continuously, and we continue to save, restore, love and pastor the people of God, week after week…

    For the record, our fellowships have increased and the leaders of the church take time to love and care for the individual needs of people…

    For the record, our core group of leaders are ready and on fire to move in the Antioch pattern and preach the gospel to anyone and everyone who will listen…

    For the record, we continue to evangelize the lost, bring revival to the church and reformation to our community…

    Mission trips are in our future, directing children to Christ in neighborhoods infested with gang violence, team preaching and the Antioch pattern are what we believe in and operate in…

    For the record, we are not dead, no matter what anyone says, we believe in our mandate, we believe in the high calling of Jesus Christ, we believe we are the voice of a new generation, we believe in grace, we believe in restoration, we believe in healing, we believe that we are the perfect church for people who aren’t.

    Not all of us bear witness to the accusations presented here, how can anyone say that all of us here are operating in a spirit of sin when some of us don’t even know what you all are battling over. And some of us don’t care.

    Why should I take your word about what you think has happened when I haven’t been part of any of it myself? Just because you say it doesn’t mean it happened. And just because I don’t believe it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. All I know is what I see, and what some of you are saying holds no weight to the the blessings and the testimony I have from being at AFC.

    I hope we all agree on one thing, God is the author and finisher of our faith, and that we serve Him whole-heartedly, despite the problems some of you seem to have. Glory be to God, always and forever.

    I thank Him for saving me and positioning me in a place where I have been restored, loved and blessed.

  402. Ginom says:

    Ummm can you you give us a count for the record of how many women in the church Barry Cook screwed this month??

    As for the AFC leader, you have got to be kidding me. Is this a joke. You are worried about where we are going to post our comments when this blog is taken down.

    UMMM don’t u need to worry about where you are going to meet when the buildings doors are locked because of forclosure???

    I’m not asking barry cook to invite me over for dinner so we can talk. I’m just asking him to be a MAN and stand up and repent. All of the sudden a cats got his tounge??

    I say he trades in his Hummer for a Ugo. Maybee he can put the money to the building fund.

    Well Barry it looks like your 15 min are up. Time forthe next city huh.

    I know some of you don’t like my post and I will stop. Once Barry Cook comes out with the TRUTH. Once that happens you won’t see me post these comments anymore.

    But I have a better chance of Donald Trump taking a part time job parking cars.

    I have waited for years to see Gods judgement on Barrys Cult. If he decides to stick around, he will get to see another church buy his building for a great price. when he drives to preach in Ron’s garage Every Sunday he will pass the building and see another preacher walking in the doors to preach the true word of god. It will prob. be the ones he preached against. they will prob. serve donuts and coffee too.

    God is good.

  403. Ginom says:

    The AFC leader just gave me a good idea. What happens if this Blog gets turned off??? Well we will just have to start a new one. So everyone spread the word. By the end of the week you can post your blogs on http://www.ambassadorfamily.net

    Nothing is up there now but everyone will have a chance this week. Gosh I hope we get lots of traffic.

    Good night.

  404. Okay! And---- says:

    For the record, You sound like a Broken Record….

    For the record, when will AFC leaders address and set up a meeting with the people that are demanding the truth and answerings to many unanswered questions?

    For the record, When will Ron S stop beating around the bush and really stand up and recognize the issue here? And heavens sake set up a meeting already… He was on here earlier in the blog suggesting that we should’ve set up a meeting, but we have been trying but still no answers…

    For the record, We have numerous accounts on here indicating that the attendance was at a 100 give or take + visitors (per red zone)… I dont see any increase in that…

    For the record, count me as one of the 600 that were sick and tired of all the lies… Oh- this includes my husband… So, make that two…

    For the record, stop this lame back and forth- because it’s never going anywhere… Until we have a meeting set, we’ll see you then…

    For the record, Im out- PEACE!

  405. Okay! And--- says:

    I meant to say “truth and answers to many unanswered questions…” (typo)

  406. Once part of AFC says:

    To whats happening at AFC:

    I am happy to hear that there are leaders that are rising up to fill the vacant spots of former leaders.
    If you are a moving forward church WHY would you want to carry along old wineskins. I was taught at AFC that we carry the sins of our ancestors. So if you are for the people of the city and seeing salvation, as a LEADER you should also stand-up and request that this issue be addressed so it can be dealt with.

    I believe that you may not know the sins of the past but you will be responsible to deal with them if you choose to be a leader in AFC. A true leader would want to make amends to those his spiritual father sinned against.

    I dont come against you but I do request of you to be a true leader.

    regardless of where AFC is going or doing this issue will not go away. It has affected many lives. Lives that served at Super Sabado, went on mission trips around the world, lives who casted out demons on that very alter you now stand, lives that preached from that very same pulpit.

    MANY, MANY, MANY lives were affected there and believe me I am no way condeming or rebuking you for where you say you are going and doing. But if you are for the people and have a heart to see people saved then you must have AFC come to grips with what is at hand.

    This is not just a few people it is many……………………………………………

    I CHARGE YOU TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT………

  407. SG says:

    For the record: Hal and I are not against genuine ministry to the territory, but we do question whether or not the currenty ministry of AFC is genuine. I’m not going to take their word for it while they continue to glory in God’s work and take the credit just to offset the allegations against themselves. This is PRIDE and ARROGANCE and they have their immediate reward. You can not pimp out the blessings of God to His people that come from His WORD.

    Did you every think that this self promotion of God’s glory is why you’ve stumbled in the first place???????? Purge your heart of this naughtiness and stop peddling the things of the Spirit. You dare to continue to take credit for God’s work in the earth and wonder why judgement comes upon you. GROW UP AFC.

    What is of God will remain, what is man-made will fall!

    We look forward to the genuine move of God in this territory. We will know it because God Himself….Jesus Christ….will get all the praise.

    CHURCH….PRAISE HIM!!!!

  408. What's happening at AFC says:

    Nobody can see the fruit of what can happen when people are restored, you only see the darkness. That speaks volumes for who you say you are.

    God’s glory SHOULD be spread, HIS good news is just that GOOD NEWS. If you don’t like the fact that we can move forward in HIS blessings, then you can stay in the world of bitterness.

    I choose life.

  409. Mark on frogiveness says:

    We should continue to rally all of us who feel this way. “HE WHO HAS BEEN FORGIVEN MUCH LOVES MUCH” AND THIS STORY IS TO BE TOLD WHENEVER THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED…Jesus Christ”… BC preached hard and solid but was so kind and loving when I had a hard time. My turn Dr. Cook you didn’t agree with my stuff but you helped restore me. Count me in on the AFC 4 Christ side. Of course they will debate who is really on Christ side. But WE know!!! No one must have ever have shown them mercy or they would give it NOW! …the blood of Jesus..is bitter to drink but cleanses from ALL unrightouness! The Blood is applied to His heart! Let him walk out his salvation with fear and trembling! The Blood is applied!

  410. Mark says:

    BC ask CR to take a test and she refused it several times. After PS cursed at him screaming at the top of his lungs like a idiot. He tried again with a counceler. She just wonts to be left alone . Now she wont speak to him either. Says she is tired of being in this place and just wonts to get healed. She feels if she takes it or not will just make HER life worse either way. Now he is truly stuck in the middle. He is a very anointed minister and a good father. Also for your information he is not in charge of the church nor is RW. They have had many people offer them a place to worship. RS is doing his job to explore and sustain the progression on all counts. You only focus on one thing. Thats why he is who he is. They are moving forward and are very careful about maintaing the spirit of holiness NOW! Let them go forward pharoh and worship and sacrifice. The blood will never loose its power!

  411. MT to all says:

    How do you know he hasen’t repented. He doesn’t have to follow your way he can still repent within scriptural perimitiers and not meet with your mean self. Whats done is done. Go have a party and get over it. I have never seen so many whiners. I served in the marine core for 23yrs. I was their when HG came storming in with his wife sitting in a beat up pick up truck outside like some loud mouth trailer trash. HG you were disruptive and very very angry. Nobody rough house you how could they you were mean. Pointing at the preacher and making faces. Who are you trying to fool. You guys present a image of you that is not accurate in reality at all. Everyone else has a reason they are forgiven but he has no reason unless he does it your way. If you are saved and care about people then move on wichy woman. Your pastor ought to see that if you act like this and feel God about it, then you will do it to anyone who doesnt agree with you. I command you foul spirit come out of her now in Jesus name! If he needs to repent he should, but not to you haters. That is not right…you are not right! AFC old leaders this just shows you care more about your emotions than your missions. If you love Jesus truly meet in the streets and win souls. With this much energy you could have blanketed the city by now. But you won’t nor will you even if he meet with you. Because you are in the flesh that is why you do fleshly acts. If you were of the spirit you would do spiritual acts. New afc is choosing the right thing, move forward and do the works of Christ. You guys are a twisted pile of snakes. Masqurating as a angels of light!

  412. What's happening at AFC says:

    To Gino, we have a building already, we move in this week and we are EXCITED!

  413. Okay! And--- says:

    To Mark-

    I knew that story was going to surface soon… Where BC asked CL/CR for a paternity test and she refuses… And little did we know that she was probably paid or told to refuse… Or maybe she said no to cover the man she loves (BC)…

    MT-

    haters?!? You sound like a hater yourself!! Calling HG disruptive, angry, and trailer trash…. hmmmmm…. and at the end of your post you commanded a foul spirit to come out… Gee! I dont know about that… A foul spirit rebuking a woman of God… I think it goes the other way around…

    Whats Happening at AFC:

    Glad you have a building…. and Im excited for you and the new AFC… I am happy for the praise reports that were stated earlier… I personally dont have any issues with any of the new leaders, because I dont know half of you…. But the issue still stands, because the shepard of the flock abandoned/abused/neglected 600 sheep. And this is a fair amount to just overlook…

  414. What's happening at AFC says:

    No one is overlooking, we just can’t continue to live where it is now dead. I understand your point and thank you for your encouragement. I think through all this we have learned that we have improvements to make, and we are making them.

    Unfortunately a lot of people were hurt, myself included. I still don’t believe 600 people all left for the same reason, we can agree to disagree, I know at least fifty individuals and families that left for other reasons that had nothing to do with this what is in this blog.

    Unlike some people, I haven’t had an ex-leader call me to apologize, but I also don’t demand it, I released those people a long time ago. I believe they were sorry for what they caused in my life, I believe that they are being restored, I believe that God’s grace is sufficient.

    I read something the other day:
    John 10:12
    But the hired servant (he who merely serves for wages) who is neither the shepherd nor the owner of the sheep, when he sees the wolf coming, deserts the flock and runs away. And the wolf chases and snatches them and scatters [the flock].

    I just thought it was interesting. I’m not making any presumptions.

    Blessings.

  415. Okay! And-- says:

    Whats Happening at AFC- I really like you… You dont have the ugly spirit that MT has– the name calling was uncalled for… But you come and post and state your ground with peace… Thank you Jesus!

    Just wanted to add to your scripture: John 10:12

    But the hired servant (he who merely serves for wages) who is neither the shepherd nor the owner of the sheep, when he sees the wolf coming, deserts the flock and runs away. And the wolf chases and snatches them and scatters [the flock].

    Now read verse 13….

    13. “The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.”

  416. Seeking Truth says:

    Hey everybody,

    I’ve been waiting for the leadership of AFC to finally take a leadership role in this dialog. Thank you “current leader of AFC” for finally saying something. We have been promised by many that the “new leadership” is not the same as it used to be. I have been waiting (giving you the benefit of the doubt) to see what the new face of AFC leadership would look like when it ventured outside of its own four walls.
    I carefully read your post on 5/17 08, unfortunately I cannot see where there is any “new wine” flowing from the vessel called AFC. All I see is the same old crap that AFC has been operating in for years now. As for the the “The church is here,you either operate in it or you don’t” comment, the way it looks from here 600(and counting) are part of the “you don’t” crowd, what part of that do you not understand? and why does the leadership of AFC continually choose to ignore those 600 and treat them as outcasts because they chose to no longer support a ministry that they saw serious problems with?
    These issues that the Church have with you will never just “go away “until they are dealt with. You offer meetings but refuse to meet face to face. I also noticed that AFC has finally admitted to failures in the past but you give no indication of what those failures are.
    There are numerous people saying that they KNOW that the wrongful conduct of Barry Cook is absolutely true yet there is not a single person that has ever said that “no, these allegations are absolutely false” all we ever hear is “even if they are true” or “what if they are not true” .I’m sorry AFC but you don’t sound very confident in your defense of this man.
    This issue will not rest until Barry Cook himself stands up before the church(I mean the entire church) and answers to the allegations against him.

    A little side note for those who need it, I am still not SG but you came close so from now on why not call me by my rightfull name…. HAL GUINN

    Also to my friend “MT to all” I strongly suggest that you go back and review the video footage that exists of the incident that you are refering to and let it speak for itself.

    One more thing just to clarify .The individual posting as HG and myself (HAL GUINN) are not the same individual.

  417. news flash says:

    Do any of you really believe that BC would have asked Carolyn for the paternity test and said it was refused or whatever??
    Here’s something to think about:
    The blood test was already done on the baby and that is how it was proved that VL is NOT the father. The one STILL NEEDING TO DO THE BLOODWORK is BC himself.
    And whatever his motive would be in that case (if he did believe he wants rights to his son or to try to prove he is NOT the father (haha)), he could have it court ordered, pulling up the bloodwork that is already done.
    It’s really not rocket science!
    If he wants to clear his name, HE WOULD DO IT.
    He isn’t doing it, however, is he? why? scared of what?
    He knows that getting this test is to come clean – pure and simple AND IS NOT READY TO DO SO.
    Like I said, this is NOT rocket science and you cannot ‘scripture away’ the lies, hurt or deception this man has been a part of and continues to DELIBERATELY walk in.

  418. What's happening at AFC says:

    To Okay and…
    I thought it was an interesting passage, I’m still studying it though. Also, I appreciate the respectfulness, it is truly a breath of fresh air.

  419. Once part of AFC says:

    Im curious if I was to walk into AFC today…..would I be escorted out like many others?

  420. HAL GUINN says:

    First and foremost Mr” MT to all” refering to my wife as trailer trash is about as ignorant as a human being can get. I noticed that you didn’t have the manhood to say anything like that when I was there next to you. My wife is an incredible woman of God who has been chosen by God himself as a highlly favored woman. Your ignorance and lack of education shines through on your post. There are many who love my wife and none more-so than myself. To any and all who have seen my wifes pick-up truck would you conider it to be a beat up pick up? Would a 2003 GMC 2500HD truck ,lifted ,with 35s on it not a scratch anywhere be considered a “beat up pick up.” For those of you who have been to my house and ate at my table, would you consider my home to be anything close to “trailor trash?” How about my wife’s cooking? The best in town!!

    MT, you are an outright liar. Please call me in person and speak to me that way about my wife….760.521.0166.

  421. SG says:

    okay, wow….MT….trailor trash, beat up pick up, yelling out the window of my truck….you are delirious.

    If you knew me at all, you would know that is not my style . Sure I like my beautiful Charcoal Metallic, 2003, GMC Sierra 2500, lifted all the way to Jesus, with all terrain tires, Bose system, DVD, CD, Air, all leather, all electric, crew cab deluxe. I’m from Texas, we like our trucks BIG. Oh yeah, lets now forget my 2004 Harley Davidson Roadking with 16 inch ape hangers, slammed to the ground, black and chrome all over beauty. Whewwww, that bike is soooooooooooooo cool. Hey, have you seen my 2006 20ft ski boat with a V8, seats 10. Man, that runabout will skip across the bay smooth-like. I bet you’d love it. This country girl knows how to play…………want to come join I me? I didn’t think so.

    Sounds to me like someone is jealousssssssssssss

    Yeah while were on the subject of motorcycles. Does anyone want to to a “Prayer Run?” You know how the bikers love their “Poker Runs”, well lets do one where we stop at several points in the county and continue to THROW DOWN that lying witch JEZEBEL. C’mon, it’ll be fun.

  422. HG says:

    To MT to all Says, I suggest that you slow down and gather your thoughts before you post again. Your vile, vicious rant above at 11:06 speaks volumes to what your own heart is filled with, nastiness! You do not represent the the men and women of the United Marine Corps very well in decorum, demeaner or literacy. Perhaps you were a sub-par Marine who slid through the cracks of leadership?

    Marines have an attention to detail that is second to none, you on the other hand have by your own post, been weighed, measured and found wanting in various modes of communication and accuracy. I was supposed to be talking about Super Sabado at this time, however, I have decided to postpone it in order to hopefully, prevent you from ‘putting your foot in your mouth again in public.’

    Let me help you out: I have posted on this blog a total of three times, not including this entry, May 2, 2008 at 9:29pm, May 10, 2008 at 12:29 pm and May 17, 2008 at 11:14pm. Maybe you should go back and read my entries and have Avatar Expert check out my avatar symbols before you start another misguided personal attack.

    You have never seen me come storming into any building, worship, commercial, home or otherwise. You do not know the types of vehicles I own, my maritial status, or who rides in my vehicle. You seem to know an awful lot about nothing, in my book. You also might want to clarify to your AFC members who choose to live in manufactured homes or trailer parks, your true biased opinions towards them. Are they included in your views of ‘loud mouth trailer trash’? Where do you get your source of entitlement that you feel it is approprioate to put others in a class because of where they live? How do you really feel about the kids that you minister to at Super Sabado, who live in Oceanside?

    What exactly is a ‘wichy woman’? Sounds like a cartoon character. What do you mean when you say, ‘haters’? Haters of who? You have to be somewhat disillusional to believe that anyone would be jealous or would want to trade places with Mr ‘I’m insulating myself’, Cook. Are these the terminology and descriptions of God’s people that your ‘new leadership’ at AFC is teaching you? You might also want to consult them and get permission before posting because you haven’t accomplished anything but verify a lack of character that is a part of your true nature.

    Last key point… if you don’t know who you are addressing, or what you are doing, you shouldn’t be trying to command a foul, or any other type of spirit. You just put your spiritual immaturity on full blast to the entire internet world. So once again, take a breath, calm yourself, figure out who and what you want to talk about and don’t be afraid to use a dictionary. I look forward to reading your future posts.

    Mr Guinn, thank you for your clarifying remarks above and I encourage you and your spouse to continue to do what you do. The two of you have become an a beacon of inspiration, motivation and courage to more people who have been spiritual abused, neglected and raped than you can even imagine. Again, I thank you both and to all a good night.

  423. Okay! And--- says:

    Once part of AFC– was someone escorted out before?? What in the world?!? For heavens sake, i thought the church was a sanctuary… No matter who walks through, they should be welcomed… No matter what the circumstance is… That only goes to show that they were worried and had unclean thoughts about whoever they escorted out… Unblelievable!! And we’re being called “the haters” (per MT)

  424. MT in response says:

    Okay…you are jokeing. You cannot let one angry person…Control worship and effect the atmosphere. People get distracted and what not…the person should have some respect for something…come on!!!If someone won’ts to be prayed for then they could be and we would offer it. Or if someone finds a way to stay and not be disruptive.

    HG – By the Lords grace I have come a long way and the Marine Corps was good for me. I may not be the smartest person in the world but I work hard and I take care of my family.

  425. ginom says:

    Here is a place everyone can post comments on a forum. I just set it up. http://www.ambassadorfamily.net I thought since we had all these people posting we could give it a web address. Everyone is welcome. Good bad or ugly. If you support Barry Cook and AFC, you are welcome to post. Thanks

    http://www.ambassadorfamily,net

  426. ginom says:

    opps sorry i messed up that last link. http://www.ambassadorfamily.net

  427. Once part of AFC says:

    YES on more then one occasion people have been escorted out.
    Lorenzo Dent and his family was simply worshiping the Lord and were not just asked to leave but escorted out. There are reports of others also.

    Joel and Iris wedding: They had freinds they could not have there because they had left AFC. So how do you tell your freinds they are not welcome at your wedding beacause they left the church.

    There was no Love of the Lord shown……….
    As I have said before if you questioned anything they would follow you, drop you from ministrys, and totally ignore you as if you had did something wrong. People who questioned things were pushed out not just loosing their church family but their freinds.
    You were not to speak to or have anything to do with those who had left. My kids would run into old freinds and be ignored as if they had done something wrong. When my best freind refused to commune with me after leaving my oldest child stated ” MOM, now I know what they say about AFC is true”

    There was alot of control and manipulation. I personaly was told by Carolyn that if I had anything to do with a specific member who had left that I would have nothing to do with her or her baby at all.

  428. Once part of AFC says:

    There is no joking about it…………………………..

  429. Once part of AFC says:

    MT im curious how long you have been apart of AFC?

  430. What's happening at AFC says:

    I know that we have addressed this issue and I believe that we have moved on and are welcoming those that have left and come back. I cannot speak for everyone at AFC, but for myself, I know people who have come back and I personally have loved on them, joined in prayer with them, and prayed for them.

  431. Okay! And--- says:

    MT-
    All I know is that the Sanctuary is where people go and be set free… No matter what the situation is, they bring it forth to God… And you have no room to judge if they are angry, sad, or frustrated because God is dealing with them in the sanctuary (if they open their hearts)… If people are distracted than they are not worshipping as they should be…

    So, whats the real reason for escorting visitors out during worship? Are you for real? I have never heard of a church escorting people out of their service because they felt that these particular individuals were disruptive… Even if they were just in there looking around and not saying anything, they were classified this way, and were not welcome…. Is it because these are the same people that are fighting to get the Truth that BC wont admit to? hmmmm… Everyone’s getting Dirty Dirty, aye?!?

  432. MT some more thoughts says:

    Okay…I moved back to GA.

    Okay..he’s not paying her off…CR is a strong willed woman when she wont’s to be…I have known her from other churches for years and anyone who knew her would say the same! She came up hard real heard and held onto Christ…she may have a crack in her pottery…but she is her own person I assure you!

    Mr Guinn thank you… haha.

    Newsflash – great rally but you don’t understand how it works.

    Mark- … YOU… threw down some stuff jack…thanks for bringing it like that…! Good insight as I know it… as truth also.

    AND WHOEVER said it…He has… openly declared… he was… not… the father… as has many others directly involved…openly…

    CR is a beautiful lady and has a great heart and calling! God will use her again some day and she will be great in God’s harvest field. Blessings to her!

    WIN SOULS…GO DOOR TO DOOR…FAST …PRAY…SPEAK WORDS OF FAITH…GATHER AND UNITE FOR FEEDING THE POOR…GO ON A MISSION TRIPS TOGETHER…BUT ONCE AGAIN STOP BEING SO UGLY AND WHINY…TO ECHO ANOTHER…LET GOD’S PEOPLE GO…LOOSE THEM TO START ANEW…

    You should do the same…

    Cook is moving on… I understand he is in a place of councel and growth. He is not running nor having it easy. He was never a heirling…ever… I know you don’t feel sorry for him but many are believing… for him to keep fighting and see what God has NEXT. Then I’m sure he will respond! Let God deal with him…he will bend to God…I believe…Can God rebuild with burnt stones. Who knows if he will ever minister in NC region again!

    You guys can’t base your ability to live on…on this…that is insane sounding…please listen to yourselves! If you are leaders then lead like leaders and not like protesters.

    Leaders don’t focus on the problem… they focus on learning and retrying…a new mission… and adapted measures and means. Meaning your seeds were for Christ, your labour is measured and given rewards by God, your love and restoring power will be measured…there is not a judgement award…

    Many sound like you have no idenity outside of him. WOW and then you stone daily with your words. Call a truce and both of you get healed…you can’t get healed in a hostile enviroment! It is another FACT!

    You and BC should learn… and do it different next time! So go try again… both of you… to do what God has called you to do!

    But if you guys stand there as a angry mob…screaming…give us Barry…give us Barry…
    Then I think he should let you believe what you will…stay under the counsel and discipleship of a true spiritual leader…trust God for healing…then keep preaching as he is released… Beacuse this proves… you guys aren’t healthy… to talk yet!

    You need to be healed …but it is never functional to base your ability to live on in the future… because you are holding on to the past. He WHO HAS EARS LET HIM HEAR!!!

    You SOUND like a divorced spouse… stop nagging like mad women… who still feel hurt…the hurt may be real to you but that has never been a healthy way to reconcile…it is …what it is…AT THIS POINT
    …adjust..adapt and overcome! I speak the truth in love beseeching everyone of you while there is still light!

    You all should pray and get back to work… if you would spend these hours in prayer or helping the local church you would please God!

    Maybe you do… and this is just what you do… all… the rest of the time. Which is really weird!

    Well… that should do it… this round! Love to all!!!

  433. Okay! And--- says:

    ginom- thats cool… thanks for doing that!! Oh – by the way, do we get to keep our avatars? I want to make sure that people know its me “OKAY! AND” …. Because people will freak out if we use different avatars…

  434. Okay! And--- says:

    MT-
    Why are you copying what others are saying?? You are just copying and pasting your post… You are all over the place- making no sense… Besides, your real self showed when you called SG and HG names… so dont sit here and preach to us and yet you have not even once apologized to SG & HG for what you said… Dont just talk the talk—- you need to WALK IT…

  435. Okay! And--- says:

    * yawns… Goodnight and God Bless!

  436. MT some more thoughts says:

    No copying and pasting here. This is the real deal. I like how you use other address to cover you thats cute!

    Nothing I said disqualifys anything I said… on the last blog are the facts spoken about….SUGAR! I know you are not sugar…but I thought flem was to harsh.You guys give your comments all the time. You don’t apologize to nobody and have all kind of reasons why you don’t. It was my perception when I watched it happen. My feelings… and they are real also… just as real as yours. Speaking of hg in the church!

    Stop trying to fool everybody! You twist and double and triple post. You got a weasel ginom and occasional new poster other than that… just posers. Bias are powerful thing to use in influence of old people. The way you phrase and the way you correct anyones opposing view especially anyone with clear concise perspective. I didn’t speak in generals either!

    AFC now… don’t go to there post and blog. Stay away from theses guys. Don’t be caught in anybodys web. Start your on and just keep preaching Jesus!

    “Making no sense”…yea right… that is how… you… avoid the truth. More crafty than you say Cook is…You deflected with rebuttle on other subjects but that is your mo! The things that I spoke are truths…you on the other hand repeat like a broken record …so maybe… I should just keep coping and pasting my last post.
    Maybe so… this last post was all the truth and good stuff!!!!!!!!!I bet you still havent choosen a day to go door to door or get more involved under your pastors vision. Okay and SG where do you go to church now in NC?

    I have many other things to say! But again you are not healthy enough yet to hear. You poor little hurt people… who can’t live… because you are so tuff… and a shadow of a big bad wolf is scaring you! Did he huff and puff and try to blow your house down too…oh my..Lions and tigers and bears…oh my!!
    Do the real enemy damage and by winning souls and discipling new converts to Christ. As the body of Christ we must focus on the right thing! This is religious games to the devil and you guys are the ring leaders. Please get healed so you can build and JUST tear down. ENOUGH DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY!
    But the poor in spirit you shall always have with you! So I am trying to strengthen the feebleminded!
    You know… you think you finally have a place in life where you can fit! oh goody goody…hope this fulfills your need to be needed and acepted! IT IS A GREAT WAY FOR THE SPIRITUALY IMPAIRED TO PUKE ON EACH OTHER. Sould I go to rehab and you said no no no!!!!But you should… you are leaking!

    This is not therapy for your sickness. It is like making Dracula charge over the blood bank.

    Your getting boring… really boring!

  437. SG says:

    MT….the point is that you are outright lying and/or misrepresenting what actually happened. My husband did not come in angry or disruptive. This is a completely false statement. You either weren’t there and someone has told you a self serving version of what really happened or you were there and you are embarrassed about the fact that my husband did not succumb to the threats and intimidation of those who tried to force him to leave. In the end, he actually left on his own accord…..the ushers did not escort him out….they followed him out. My husband was in complete control of himself and conducted himself like a true man of God. He came for one reason and that was to meet with BC. BC had not responded to our request to meet so Hal came by to follow up to make sure BC got our messages. When BC saw Hal, he paniced and in that panic, he sent several ushers to threaten my husband. So the person who was angry was BC and his thug life ushers. Including Ron Williams, Rick Riddle, Pete and at least 3 others. They freaked out when they realized that Hal was not moved by them at all. Several other ushers that heard the call over the radio to come to the front of the church, did not respond when they figured out it was Hal. Why? Because they know my gentle giant of a husband and new that if he were there it was for good reason. They told us this later when they saw us in public. Which by the way happens alot. We are very accessible people. We actually LIVE our LIVES in this territory. We are seen all the time. Can’t say I can say the same for the so called leaders of AFC. They don’t venture far from their caves……hmmmmmmmmmmm

    My husband instructed me to stay in the truck which I did. I did not say a word to anyone. My windows were rolled up the whole time as I was waiting on Hal to come get me to tell me to come in with him. When I saw him coming out of the building with the little darlings behind him, I thought he was coming to get me. When he came to the truck he said we were being thrown out. I actually started laughing because he was laughing. We just couldn’t believe how scared BC was to meet with us. We were amazed that he looked at US as such a threat. Actually it is still kind of funny.

    Anyway, MT, you’ve got it all wrong and I strongly encourage you to leave this matter alone and continue to work on your relationship with Jesus Christ in a more “nurturing environment.” We love you and honestly you haven’t hurt my feelings at all. So I forgive you and truly hope that you WILL do all the things you described above. Go for it man of God. We’ll be praying for you.

  438. SG says:

    I do attend a local church in NC. This church and pastor are not being accused of any misconduct so I will keep my place of worship private. Does he know who we are and why we are doing what we are doing? Yes. He KNOWS. Unlike those who have something to hide, our pastor is not threatened by us. He has no reason to be. He is a man of God and would not be involved in such things as BC. He lives his life worthy of the vocation wherein he has been called. He lives beyond reproach and stays away from the very appearance of evil. He actually heeds the scripture in his private and public life. We love him and support him.

    God Bless MT. Gotta go to work. Hey if you want to talk to me call anytime. 760.622.9976.

  439. MT on vampires says:

    Yea ok.. cool…it happened just like I said… and you still could not address the other facts contained. That is ok also…we know why you can’t really address it. Once again you choose one thing to address in your lengthy defense.
    You should keep your pastor private. Good move. Someone might start wanting to send him emails like you have done to others. huh? ANY TAKERS ANYONE!!!
    Have a great day at work until you get thirsty again…then write and drink until you are full..fulfill your drive…I know you can’t help it! So I forgive you!
    Just don’t ask me to hold still while you suck my blood! No one else should hold still while you spin your webs of deceit either. Watch the computer…read the words..feel the spirit…be defiled by bitterness and remain offended…now in SGs name! hahaha!
    I don’t like these types of movies. They defile the spirit. It is not a higher level as you have said it is a base level of spiritual deception! Know it! Understand it! resist it!

  440. What's happening at AFC says:

    I was there when they were escorted out…I remember, and really, what did you think was going to happen? It was his first day back at the pulpit and you two came like an ambush…I don’t remember HG being all that angry, but I also didn’t get why that was the only opportunity to do it…I can see both sides on that one.

    And I can assure NO LEADER is hiding out…everyone conducts business as usual in Oceanside. though keep in mind, they all don’t live in O’side either.

  441. Okay! And-- says:

    MT-
    * oh my gosh- im so scared….

    I will be praying for you… You sound so angry… speaking of avoiding the truth- perfect example when Hal walked in the church BC had a panic attack… Having the ushers running around and yet they were afraid to approach Hal…. The enemy is that way… Their flesh burns when the children of God are near… Its a feeling of discomfort…

  442. Okay! And-- says:

    Whats happening at AFC- good morning friend… so, are you saying that they were not welcome in the sanctuary?

  443. Okay! And-- says:

    were they threatening to do something? Or was their presence too much to handle? It seems as if BC was not ready (as always) to tell the truth…

  444. What's happening at AFC says:

    They didn’t go to the sanctuary…they weren’t escorted out because they were in praise and worship, they came specifically for one purpose and the demeanor was not promoting peace, I will say that… I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that situation either. I can see both sides, I don’t know why there hasn’t been a meeting with BC and SG/HG…I can’t answer for anyone.

    I do know that people who have come back to AFC have been received and loved as if they had never left. I can’t speak on this happening a year ago, but I can say it is happening now.

  445. What's happening at AFC says:

    Oh , and Good Morning! It’s a beautiful day to be alive in the company of people who are filled with the spirit of Christ… 🙂

  446. GOD'S WORD says:

    REAL REPENTANCE
    I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20

    Who among us has sinned? All of us, But the good news is this: When we do ask God’s forgiveness and turn out hearts to Him, He forgives us absolutely and completely. Genuine repentace requires more than simplyoffering God apologies for our misdeeds. Real repentance may start with feelings of sorrow and remorse, but it ends only when we turn away from the sin that has distanced us from our Creator. In truth we offer our most meaningful apologies to God, not with our words, but with our actions. As long as we are still engaged in sin, we may be “repenting” but we have not fully “repented” So if there is an aspect of your life that is distanceing you form God ask for his forgiveness and just as importantly stop sinning Now.

    Father when We stray from Your commandments, Lord we must not only confess our sins, we must also turn from them. When we fall short help us to change. Forgive our sins Dear Lord and help us live according to Your plan for our lives. Your plan is perfect, Father; we are not. Let us trust in you….Amen

    I was intersted in knowing how VL message was yesterday I wasnt able to make it the see him, and what the message was on and how he is doing with moving past the darts of fire he has had to face from all this

    Love and peace to VL
    God bless the kingdom and all of us at work in it……….

  447. Dont stop Suzanne says:

    Ya know, this blog has gotten off track of the original discussion which is about the truth coming to light regarding the lies that are continuing to be told by BC. As far as the validity to the Guinn’s coming into the church to speak with BC, I know for a fact that the Guinn’s were NOT welcome in the church – at both 4055 and the new building. Ushers were told to watch them if they showed up because they ‘had a devil’. oooo… like everyone else who realized the truth and were blacklisted. I also know of someone who was personally preached against from the pulpit. Instead of showing love to people as we had learned as kids growing up (share, be nice, don’t say anything if you can’t say something nice, etc), we were taught at AFC that people not ‘like us’ were of the devil, had a devil that needed cast out, etc. There was NO ROOM for differences of opinion. If you had a different opinion at any point in your leadership experience and SPOKE IT, you were pulled from your position with no reason given, other than “you need to submit to what the leadership is doing” (and once again, YOU now have the devil- rebellion or something would be dreamed up).
    I remember Hal showing up to the church at least three times and one time in particular him and Victor were followed closely at 4055 (including when they were in the part of the church by the bathrooms!!!!, the other 2 times I remember Hal standing at the back of the church minding his own business, waiting patiently for BC and COMMANDED to sit down. When he didn’t, all ushers were on HIGH ALERT for a ‘rebellious’ man with a devil at the back of the sanctuary. Another time, TC specifically asked someone why they thought Suzanne wasn’t talking to anyone from AFC, fishing for information that she did not get, as well as asking to find out who ‘knew’ what Suzanne knew. Remember, nobody was talked nicely about once they left for fear of what those people might reveal in conversation about what was going on – hence the preaching bashing of Vince. It’s all about controlling the people, not leading them.
    When the leadership classes were held on Saturdays before corporate screaming (prayer), fruit was expected. However, when innocent, truthful USE of what was taught was put in place to the teams of people, leaders were told they were wrong, not doing it right, too this and too that – always not good enough, but it was exactly as they had been taught to do – giving others the input and opportunity for growth without accusation or fear of not being accepted. WHOA to those leaders who accepted their teammate’s ideas and strategies!
    All in all, we were all part of a huge hoax called GAIN FOR BC and HIS POCKET, thinking it was God that was directing him and his ‘rules’. When we got out of the mess, we realized the ‘koolaid’ we had been drinking, repented to as many as possible for our part in the cultish activities and moved on to TRUE spiritual living – HEALTHY, family life.
    I hope many of you can also realize that your families are who is suffering and not wait until it’s too late to run out of that coven.
    Truth is, BC got a lot of people to buy in to his schemes, pad his pockets and live a life that has now come to light – a shameful, selfish, adulterous path. God knows all that transpired, will continue to transpire and I thank Him for allowing it to all come to light. It’s about time. The next step is for the IRS to take a serious look at the books, and ask questions! I know there is more to that than is written in obvious ink.
    Too bad BC didn’t repent and take care of his sin when this all started. This could have been over by now, with an ‘intact’ church governed by honest leadership and oversight from reputable men of God. Now, we have this blogging going on that is opening up the bigger can of worms. Sad…

  448. What's happening at AFC says:

    The past should rest in the past, we have moved forward from this, I apologize for those that have been hurt, I was too, but I believe we have turned from this approach and the leaders are new and carry different views, all of which have been expressed…

    I don’t see the past leadership anymore. I do however, see the fruit of what restoration can bring…

    I’ve met with many leaders including BC and I have never had a problem being open to discuss issues or concerns I have had.

    I’m sorry that some of you haven’t had the same experience.

  449. Avatar Expert says:

    to don’t stop, please do stop. this discussion was not about BC’s issues, it was about Paula White’s issues. plus, it got off track when it started personal attacks and assumptions of people on both sides of the story. even my own posts could have been led to be assumptions but then the responses of the parties involved proved them to be more than assumptions but hitting the nail on the head.

    “‘Seeking Truth Says:

    May 1, 2008 at 7:52 pm
    As a former member of AFC and still a member of the Body of Christ, I can say that I know both SG and BC personally. I also know how the leadership structure at AFC operates. If you question or have a differing opinion than that of leadership, you are automatically labeled as rebellious, coming against authority, or otherwise demonized.

    To SG: I must say that I admire for the stand that you are making and I encourage you to continue in this battle to bring the truth to light. I have always known you to be a woman of bold faith and strong conviction with a heart that deeply loves the family of God as well as those who do not yet know Him. I stand with you in this battle no matter how difficult it may get. The fight for truth isn’t always a pretty fight but it is a ncessary one. I would much rather have someone look me in the eye or “on a blog” and tell me the truth than to deceive me with a lie.

    I noticed that some of your comments on this post have been very bold and assertive, but I have no problem with them understanding the spirit that you are up against. BC has lied to his congregation about many things for many years.

    SG, I know that I can trust you so be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might for He is with you and not against you.

    By the way…why would it offend someone that you asked Ron Satrape about his credentials? When you go to the doctor don’t you want to know that he is qualified?’

    ‘Seeking Truth Says:
    May 19, 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Hey everybody,

    …A little side note for those who need it, I am still not SG but you came close so from now on why not call me by my rightfull name…. HAL GUINN…'”

    now I see why you got so upset about the whole avatar situation. i knew there was some validity to the whole thing. thanks again, for proving my point. again, it raises questions as to the validity of what’s being said and by whom. who knows, maybe somebody is posting on both sides of this story. it’s all a wash. have fun at your party. 😉 God Bless!

  450. ginom says:

    yes u can keep your same screen name on http://www.ambassadorfanily.net

  451. Still Standing says:

    To What’s happening at AfC- I’m not trying to be funny but did I miss something? You said that the new leaders are carrying different views and a different approach all of which has been expressed. I genuinly missed it. Please tell me what those different views and different approaches are. And thank you for your apology.

  452. MT slurp says:

    How does the blood taste guys? Your right this blog got off when a leach attached themselves to the subject. But I guess they needed something to give them a sense of importance! Blood anyone being served at SGs place. Go drink up! Can’t you see the fangs out now!!!

  453. MT ps says:

    Whatever… get a life…would you!! Weak… pathetic…really weird! He talked to me also… but I didn’t act like some of you guys… I took into consideration all the pressure and treated him with respect. Which is probley not your style. So get over it…you choose…he choose! OK! He has a right! Cry.. whine and drink on!!

  454. Still Standing says:

    To God’s Word: VL and his brother tag team preached(rapped). It was encouraging. He was ministering on the great comission. He is spreading the gospel utilizing baseball as the tool all over the world. He admonished all of us to get our passports You can keep up with him by going on his web site- conqueringministries@yahoo.com

  455. What's happening at AFC says:

    To Still Standing, I was referencing the fact that some people in the past who have come back to AFC were given the cold shoulder and not warmly welcomed back into the House of God. I know that this was brought up recently due to other members that have come back recently. The change in view is now (with the new leaders) that we welcome everyone back with open arms, no judgement, no opinions, just open acceptance.

    The “exiled” point of view is not seen anymore. I would say anyone that has left peacefully would be more than welcome to come back and be received with love and compassion. Those that didn’t leave so peacefully, I believe, would also be welcomed.

    I say this because this is what I have learned through the preaching and love I have been given pastorally. I really do feel bad for those that did not receive this. I know that current leadership has openly apologized to me and others that have left for not being more pastorally connected. I had a leader apologize for taking the focus off of personal ministry and focusing on the building.

    It’s been a breath of fresh air. My hope is that everyone can come to a place of restoration. Myself included. I don’t know about all these bad spirits people keep talking about. I just know about the love, grace and accountability that leaders have given to me.

    This is all I can speak on…and I ask, please don’t come down on my comments, I am only here to promote the love and peace of Christ. I only have my experience to draw on.

  456. What's happening at AFC says:

    Also, it is great to see VL moving forward in the ministry that God has placed over his life. This is a great story of how people can move on and fulfill the mandate of God in spite of all the emotional trauma I am certain he has endured. Truly he has been restored.

  457. Still Standing says:

    To What’s happenig at AFC –
    Thanks for the clarification not coming down on you at all just was trying to understand your comment.

    From ginom to MT, I bet we’ve all pushed a plate back, lost some sleep, fought some demons for each other some time in the past. I hope we maintain respect for TRUE unity and hope that we allow God’s love in us to prevail after all is said and done.

  458. SG says:

    For all the years that I’ve known BC, I have always spoken to him and about him with respect. He will tell you that himself. I remember one lady in the church told me that she approached BC in a way that made him uncomfortable. He told her, “Susanne would never talk to me that way.” BC knew that I loved him and honored him with great admiration and godly allegiance. We never had an awkward moment between us. I would email him directly regarding our comings and goings with ODMII. He was our overseeing Apostle and I reported to him weekly. He knew when we got back from Africa that I “knew.” We had a brief conversation at Super Sabado and that was the last time I ever spoke to BC. I tried for four years to meet privately with him, but he would not allow me to ask him the questions directly. Maybe he just couldn’t look me in the eye and lie to me. I guess that is a little respect, but the greater disrespect later on was lying to the whole community. After four years, we decided to go public. He knew in advance that we were going public. Why did we go public? Because so many people’s lives were being tore up. It was time to bring the truth out into the open to allow THE CHURCH to judge this situation accordingly.

    You see, most of you guys just don’t get it do you? This public rebuke of BC and AFC is forcing change. They even admitted that above by stating that what I’ve done only makes them continue. At least they have all eyes watching them now and they have to do the right thing. For months now they have reviewed my comments to go right back to the church and implement strategies to change their course so they would not be found wanting by present and future members. They have a lot more work to do to get it just right, but I thank God that this blog has had a direct impact on the change that has come to AFC. The intention of this blog was to bring about repentance. And this is happening every day. Now go back and reread the AFC comments by it leaders and maybe you all will finally get the big picture that was there all along. Helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    BC, remember the day we were climbing the hill on the property after the prayer meeting. Remember when I stopped half way up and took others by the hand to help them overcome a hurdle? Remember when I started back up the steepest incline in a full out run, but almost didn’t make it all the way and you reached out your arm and grabbed my arm? We locked arms and looked each other in the eye, remember the pause, and then you jerked me up the rest of the way? Many people here might not understand the significance of why it is Susanne Guinn that is helping to bring these things back into order, but I know you do. We both do. BC, prisoners are waiting on you to release ODMII back into the ministry under genuine headship again. We had to pull out. You would have taken us down with you. When you get back into this thing rightly, we’ll be able to finish what we started.

    That comment was for BC. No one else needs to respond to it. Mind your business.

  459. MT pride is overwhelming says:

    Well I should have known someone would take all the credit. Instead of giving it to God like it should be, but once again you just can’t resist can you!

    Well on the other hand… I really do hope everyone can move forward. You might not get everything you hope for in the process but at least it is turning.

    AFC has a mandate and those seeds aren’t dead!

    I really don’t think he was afraid of you… that has me laughing so hard!

    Another thing… this is getting closer to a enviroment where people can get healed! It may take him awhile to heal up from all the years of internal turmul and regret and remorse and pain! It may not happen the way you desire but I believe God has things in His hands and will prevail in end! Victory will prevail in all who seek a Him. “Unto Him who is able to complete that in which He has started until that day”

    May all of those who left begin to live forward and be healed because they trust in Christ. Let us mourn for a great leader who has been pruned so he may bring forth fruit that remains.
    May all bear fruit of kingdom addition.
    May all of us learn how fragile and in need of humility and grace we are…

    WOW no blood sucking tonight! Miracles do happen!!!( KINDA )

  460. SG says:

    MT…………Shut up!! Man, you’re such a nag………………

  461. SG says:

    Oh, I’m sorry MT, you go right ahead and keep up the great work you’re doing. I know you need this opportunity and we’re happy to give you a forum. Please…..you were saying…..

  462. SG says:

    Hey everybody….Hal and I went to dinner tonight and on the way home we passed AFC. We were saddened to see the church being loaded up and hauled away. We took a moment and remembered the good old days when the family of God was whole and humble. We realized that the church’s character was not ready for that building. We got ahead of ourselves. It looks like AFC will return to those humble beginnings and I don’t think that is a bad thing. AFC you’re getting a second chance to do it right. Remember to give Jesus all the glory in everything. Learn to embrace the sanctified life of the believer. It is a joy to live free from the bondage of sin. Grace is our deliverer not our enabler. Learn to repent quickly and honestly. Take off all the masks and learn to be real with one another. Stop lording over each other and quit quibbling over who is leading who where. Throw that whole idea about leading others into doing things they don’t really want to do out the window. If people are not called to a particular service don’t make them feel bad about that. Let people be who they are. Remember leaders are not the only ones who love God. People choose to attend church because they already want to serve Him. Don’t turn their loyalty to Jesus toward obedience to you…..don’t get in God’s way any longer. Let Him speak to his people and let Him show you how to serve this community in a way that unifies people around Jesus Christ not around you or your “vision.” In others words, don’t make it about you this time. Make it about Him and maybe you’ll experience something real and eternal this go around. We’re all praying for you………..but there will be one more round of cleansing in the leadership team. Satrape, you might as well call it like you see it and go ahead and do what needs to be done. If you don’t do it, I’m confident God will.

    Let us know when you all get settled in and we’ll come visit.

  463. What's happening at AFC says:

    Praise God, I was at church tonight, packing up the building, and it’s bittersweet.

    We put so much focus into “four walls” and what it represented, yet so many people were hurt and wounded. Then we look over in the horizon and see this glimmer of hope that we can restore to where we started. And then on the inside is this burning desire to save the lost.

    I laughed with so many people tonight, hugged on my sisters in Christ, got to know ones that I didn’t know so well…it feels good. I feel like moving forward is going to keep me moving in my direction that God has called for me. I can’t wait to start making more memories.

    I’m closely connected with the leadership at AFC, and all I know is where we have been is not where we are going. We were too focused on what people could do for AFC and not what we could do for them. I said it, I know its true.

    But restoration is such a powerful word.

    I appreciate your comments SG. I believe that you meant that from your heart. I know you have been hurt, I acknowledge it. I don’t defend BC because I don’t know and don’t agree with everything being said about him. However, that does not diminish the fact that you have been hurt. I feel it in my spirit that there were times you were looking for someone to help you and when you went to the church there was no one there to comfort you.

    I believe that you have been mistreated and given unfair treatment. I don’t know that any of this is true or not but when you take the anger and bitterness aside, I read a woman who was once broken. I see you bringing yourself through restoration and though its a grueling process you have started to make your way to the other side.

    I believe in you, and I believe that people like VL, you will have established yourself in your own ministry as the restoration process transitions into you going out and preaching the gospel. No one is a better giver of advice than the person who has already been through it.

    Love, Unity, Peace, Grace….I hope we all find this, I find little pockets of it everyday.

    Everything to God, all the time.

  464. HG says:

    To What’s happening at AFC, I am very impressed with your insight, compassion openness and willingness to acknowledge the feelings of others who believe they have been ‘thrown away’ by their one time church. You have opened up your heart and your mind to recognize how so many others could be feeling. AFC obviously has people like yourself with great character and leadership ability still in attendance, and that is wonderful. My hope is that this same spirt that you express will somehow soak into whoever is now in charge of AFC.

    I believe that your posts speak volumes of who you really are, a caring person who loves the Lord and all of His people, and I wish the best for you and your family. I am, not so convinced that the ‘new leadership’ who was a part of the ‘old leadership’ is able to change their perception, treatment and honest care of people who don’t agree with total submission to their will. I am not saying this is impossible for them, but I do believe they have some hurdles to overcome.

    First and formost Barry should decide if he is in, or is he out. His picture may not be on the landing page of the website, but his voice is there and images of him still dominate the other pages. His leadership style, dominance and influence over the church and current leaders, whether openly or covertly is still there. Hopefully the freedom that you are currently experiencing (while others were banished) isn’t because Barry has not personally been around on Thursday and Saturdays. Time will tell.

    In past times, if you had true leadership abilities, without submission you were considered a threat to the monarchy. I pray that does not happen to you and I wish you would continue to express yourself on this blog. If the people who in charge now would rub elbows with members like you more often, they might be able to learn something about taking care of people.

    I will also say that I have a great appreciation for what AFC was (in spite of leadership flaws) and what it can be in the future. The sooner the resolution of who is leading AFC into the future is established, the better. One way or another, somebody has to step up as the senior leader, openly and publicly acknowledge past wrongs, and sincerely apologizeto folks. Personally I don’t understand why that is so hard or diffcult for anyone to understand. Congratulations and never stop being you!

  465. SG says:

    To What happening.

    Thank you for your comments. I’m not sure what you were looking at when you said, “I see,” but again you’ve missed the mark.

    First and foremost: I am neither bitter or angry. I do not apologize for who I am and for the stand that I have made here. My healing came a long long time ago, way before this blog and way before AFC. I’m not asking you do justify why you think I’ve done what I’ve done. I’ve said it many times in my own words and I will say it again. It was not about ME, it was about repentance …… the turning away from sin at AFC.

    I came to AFC in 1998 because I am a Christian who believes in establishing her local church in her local area and beyond. I was looking for a place where I could link up arms with some God fearing, people loving, devil hating mighty men and women of God to plunder hell with and populate heaven. My hurt, as you say, was watching the misconduct and years of denial while hundreds of people were torn apart. In this time who knows how many countless unsaved persons did not hear the gospel preached because of REALLY bad judgement on the part of AFC leaders when they disowned all the people who had real spiritual depth. Yes that includes me and my husband. We are fully confident that God will redeem, once again, what man has lost in his own pursuit of himself. Now that Jesus has the attention of the people again, maybe we can all get back to doing what God has called us to do in this territory and in others.

    You see, I’ve been at the other side waiting on AFC to catch up for a long time. Believe it or not, this stand had to be taken and it had to be taken just the way it was done. The level of deception warranted it. Period. I do not take it back. Not one word. In the end THE CHURCH will be retored and God will get all the glory as HIS word promises.

    I’ve always believed in what God could do through AFC. This blog did not ever change that. Eventually, you’ll SEE that and you will not get it wrong when and if we finally do meet. Sure, we all want love and acceptance, but honestly I don’t have an ounce of the fear of man. NONE. I love all of you, but I strongly encourage you hold your “prophetic sight seeing trips” for when you know exactly who you are and exactly where you going. I’m there.

    When we see you again, we’ll know if the words you speak are genuine or just an attempt to appease the crowd on this blog after the upset you experienced from the AFC Leader post. I reserve the right to experience TRUTH first hand before I buy into anything. But I do give you the benefit of the doubt and I will give us the opportunity. It is a bit of a shame that the AFC leaders have still not called us directly. You’ll have my fpublic endorsement once I’m able to verify for myself what is Happening at AFC.

  466. MT encouraged in Christ says:

    BC is out . I am sure those images will be removed in upcoming days my friend! I don’t think he is looking to pastor right now and maybe never again.

    That is up to God! You can thank RS while your taking credit. He is doing what he said he would… with maturity and respect for ALL involved! But still taking care of business.

    BC in not there because… this was a long grueling process on him personally. He needed to clear his head and his heart.
    ALSO and maybe more importantly…He needed to get his hurt self out of the way so no one else got hurt. He is submitted to his resoration and delieverence process!

    I know you might launch for blood now but I am going to say it…I think he is becoming very sorry for all the crap… I have heard him say and watched him weep just trying to speak about it. He is way on the other side right now. Meaning he just feels like trash. God will heal him and he will get stronger and both AFC AND BC will live to see a greater day!

    RS is doing a good job, he might not be doing it my or your way. But then again this is what God has called him to do.

    I think this process will prune the attachment from RLM in which BC came from, all those spirits and leadership examples will be pruned! You know what I am saying. He sustained some pretty abusive leaders himself. This may have been what it took to get that out of him.

    It is sad AFC had to move but they had a terrible loan package. BC didn’t get any money from the deal I assure you… he was stretched for 4YRS now. Most of his money was from book sales and investments… I understand! Because of all the construction court case and other diffuculties his finances were under constant observation by outside audits. Several a year for at least 4yrs to be exact!

    I do think God has called BC to be a spiritual spartan and the body of christ would really benefit from a man like him… who has gotten a God molded character… to comeback and slay more devils the second time than he did the first. This time with out the building focus and more kingdom focus. Based on people…love, mercy and acceptance!

    BC is rare anointing. But he always seemd to feel uncomfortable around people. Many thought because he preached so hard he was just a people person but I saw a differnt side. He could be shy and introvert at times. He use to hate the direct attention. That is one reason he found it hard to relate. I think he is learning the true value of connections!

    So SG I hate to do this (hehe) but your last post about various forms of leadership errors are things that I hear BC is really coming to grips with now. That he is at that point in understanding right now and really is crushed by what he sees and decisions he has made.

    Again for the record…Some of your post on leadership are really ignorant to true leadership. Don’t use this as a oppurtunity to post your waterdowned version of let me do whatever I won’t or it is not acceptence or true leadership.
    Anyone who has raised godly children or leads a group of people know this as a fact. I hear some out of balence leadership stuff coming up here that makes it seem like you live in a dream world as a leader. I thought I could lead until I got out of the marine core and found that in the free world it took serious skills to balence correction and stay sensitive to peoples concerns. Most pastors are push overs as leaders and feel thay are not called to lead… just something they do to be a pastor. People who don’t know how to lead always try to neuter them in personality and spirit.

    Maybe cook will discover he was never called to be a pastor but something else in the kingdom and maybe that is part of what started some internal tomoil…maybe because of this misaligment in office…caused undue stife at home and ?????? I am like the rest of you in some ways just giving some thoughts here. Whatever.. I hope BC finds God, finds character, finds leadership finds genuine care and compassion and finds healing in companionship!

    Who knows in a perfect world maybe all of them will minister together on the same platform one day! BC, TC, VL, CR AND MAYBE OTHERS. WOULDN’T THAT BE A TRUE MIRACLE!!!

  467. SG says:

    To MT: Noone said to let everybody do what they want. Boy, I’m glad you are in GA and not here to be apart of this process. You were obviously mentored under such an abusive leadership style ONLY that you do not have the dimensions needed to understand that scripturally leadership is about SERVING others not LORDING over them. Your post describe you as an abusive, tryrannical person that has probably been very unsuccessful in personal relationships. You think people don’t get you, but they do. You lack quite a bit of humility. One day you’ll get it……who you really are in Christ and put all the macho man stuff down. You don’t need it.

  468. SG says:

    Back to What’s Happening! Sorry for the interruption. Kids you know.

    I too recognize the honest attempt to reach out with an olive branch to those who’ve left AFC. This is truly commendable and I thank you.

    We have some distance to go, but I’m sure WE’ll get there.

    Again, thank you.

  469. MT encouraged in Christ says:

    Nobody needs your endorsment! What the heck is the matter with you. About the time I think you are not spiritually off and full of your self…BAM!!!!You drop your drawers and and show your selfcentered butt again. Come on SG!
    Ok…because you are the big bad blog queen critic…we will all wait at your feet for your approval…oh great one!!!
    Now I am becoming convinced…AFC… don’t trust her…don’t listen to her twisted and mixed perspectives. Chew up the meat and spit out the fat.
    Holy moly…Then why don’t you go get hooked up with your pastors vision and PLUNDER HELL AND POPULATE HEAVEN! Oh great one!
    You are not the food critic, the movie critic or the church critic. No one must meet your expectations. The fact that you think so… is opposite of everything you have been writing about and holding them accountable for…
    AFC…see what I mean…you guys keep going…but it would be very harmful to allow someone like her to be your judge and official approval master. Hello…oh my gosh…SG you were doing so good.
    Better put on repelent everyone the blood sucker has now appointed herself as offical judge and critic.
    Someone should visit her pastor! If I wasn’t in humid GA I would!
    That was good in concept but strange and mixed and easy to see through in application! Come on now!!!

  470. SG says:

    Like it or not MT, I have a voice. Sorry, if that threatens your man hood, but unlike some, I feel a responsibility to my community. And bebore I publically tell people that their families and finances are safe at AFC, I will JUDGE this situtation for myself, which is exactly what the current AFC leaders are asking for. They want us to see that they have changed just like they’ve posted. I’m basically saying, “Okay show me.” If they are who they say they are, they will gladly accommodate.

    MT, the AFC leaders are turning away from your preferred leadership style of abusive control. Let it go friend. That Jezebel spirit is DEAD and eaten up by the dogs. The sound of blood being licked up is what is in your hearing. It the sound that of the counterfeit church being destroyed while the Virtuous Church arises to take her place in NC.

    Deal with it.

  471. MT to offical church critic says:

    Everything you just accused me of is what you just did to me. Its getting alittle clearer here everyone can’t you see it.
    All your blogs from beginning to end have had these tones of a island to themselves. You can’t touch me or say anything to me or I will suck blood from you… and it is ok… because You are of God. But anyone else comes on the same level just different… then they have a bad, off spirit.
    ISN’T THIS WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN ACCUSING AFC… PAST… OF DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe God took you and other like you out. In the same way you think they are wrong. Now there attitude and spirit is changing but you are still doing it. Listen to her… twist and slither while yelling out christian concepts.
    SG stay humble yourself…because you disqualify…yourself by continuing to make yourself queen mother critic…know it all!
    I was really starting to believe you might be genuine. But I am not sure now!

    I know…I know you don’t have to prove anything to me…Only they must prove themselves to you or some twist to that concept while still maintaining your oponion!

  472. MT to offical church critic says:

    Hide your open wound quick. Slurp…slurp…hear her coming.

    My manhood threatened by you…hahahahahahah…you should be a comedian in your “off” time…oh yea you are “OFF” most the time…hahahaha…I’m so funny!

    I said VERY CLEAR… but your retention level must not be very high…that I had to learn things coming out of the Marine Core about leadership in the real world. I did learn and am having great success with God and man. That type of leadership is not supported…I said the opposite. You once again took it out of context framed it into your rebutle and tried to toss it back in a different form.
    How many people do you lead? How diverse is your group? How do you conciliate disagreements? You are a island…ASK HER PASTOR YALL…YOU WILL SEE!!

    You should stay where you are good. Judging people and having no life outside of your idenity as a soup opera critic! All hail the queen!!!

  473. Okay! And-- says:

    MT-

    take a chill pill…. besides you dont sound like a marine or a child of God that you claim… Your words speak hate and death and blood sucking (whatever that is)… Besides, let Barry speak for himself…. Just relax and enjoy the sun in GA… Peace!

  474. What's happening at AFC says:

    SG despite what you may have thought I was trying to convey in my posts what “I see” was merely an interpretation of what was written. I don’t know you personally, I know nothing about you, but a person can see through the writing, anyone can.

    I don’t believe I “missed the mark” because I wasn’t going after it. And I do honestly believe that some of your remarks show bitterness and anger, I didn’t say that you were an angry and bitter woman. All of which I could understand based on what I know has happened with the church. I reread through some of your posts before coming to that conclusion.

    I have never expected you to believe everything I have said about AFC. I get that, my hope was never to sway you, or make you believe otherwise. I was only here to show the progress. Everyone kept saying what they knew about AFC, but no one could speak on what was happening now. Details and statements emerged from things that have happened prior.

    I say this with as much grace as I can, but based on some of the comments, I believe there is a tendency to look at the negative of what people are saying instead of seeing the good. My post to you was nothing more than as you have said, an olive branch.

    I really do feel bad for everyone that has been hurt. I feel like we could have and should have done more. I have been in leadership meetings asking why we failed some of our flock in pastoral care, really, no one has any idea of the questions I have posed to leadership and BC. And, it’s not just me. There are others who have spoken up and not been rebuked. We have been asked to submit ideas of what and how we can change things, and a lot of the suggestions are now implemented.

    Things are changing. I believe that you want to see AFC restored, I believe you love BC and want to see him restored in whatever that means for you. And again, I realize that people have been broken and hurt in this process. I am still going through my own process.

    I felt a little attacked after your post but I won’t comment why, it’s not conducive to moving forward in peace and unity.

    But to clear my own heart I will say that I know who I am in Christ, I know who I have been called to be, I know what I am called to do, I know where the ministry God gave me resides, I know that I know I am the apple of His eye. I believe in the heart of Christ, and His forgiveness, his grace is sufficient, and His hand is upon me.

    I cannot change the people that have hurt you and others, I am however committed to serving the people of God with a Sprit of Excellence, I am part of AFC because I belong there.

    To HG, Thank you so much for your encouragement. Your comments humble me and I am thankful. I did want to say that BC has been closely connected with the leadership despite his none appearance at the pulpit. I have had many conversations with him over the past three months that have given me great insight into what restoration really means and how to move forward when so many people want to see us fail.

    We receive e-mails, and words of encouragement from our leader and are thankful that he is taking the time to heal from his own wounds. We want to see him back doing what we has been called and prophecied to do. I know its hard for many to accept that, but I believe in God and His process.

    If you aren’t already experiencing it, I pray that everyone here is able to move forward in the vision that God has placed over you. We are the church. We make the decision to love, accept, restore and bless others. The ministry didn’t make me into who I am, AFC didn’t make me into who Iam either, it was the unconditional everlasting love of my Father, Jesus Christ.

    I thank you Lord.

  475. What's happening at AFC says:

    MT, I am curious, who told you BC was out? I believe that statement to be false. He is more involved now then he ever has been even though he’s not at the pulpit. The web was not changed because of his departure, it was changed because we are an Antioch church, we are a team of people, not one person leading the congregation. He is still the lead pastor.

  476. Okay! And--- says:

    Whats happening at AFC–

    Jesus has blessed you with a sense of peace to bring to this blog… Your leadership skills will impact many… Continue serving the Lord my friend… I love the praise reports…

    to BC and RS- why havent we set up a meeting?!? I want to come back and visit and feel welcomed again, but BC we need to clear the air… I have seen way too much, and I just want answers to my questions… I love you BC – i have no ill feelings towards you… just want answers to the things I saw…

  477. What's happening at AFC says:

    To Okay and…

    Thank you for your comments. God has an amazing way of showing His love in every circumstance.

    I don’t know if BC reads this or not, but I believe your heart, and I believe your spirit. Some of us are ready with open arms to welcome back those that have left even if only for a visit. If you are unable to get your meeting, I still hope that you at some point are able to release your hurt to God if you have not already done so.

    I pray for your healing and restoration with a peace that surpasses all understanding.

    Blessings to you today.

  478. HAL GUINN says:

    To whats happening

    Thank you for coming out openly and letting everybody know that BC is still firmly in control of the goings on at AFC. Once again we are asking for the leader (BC) to come out and address the church regarding the numeruos allegations that stand before him. Having multiple people minister from the pulpit is not something new at AFC, that antioch pattern has been in place for years now. Make no mistake ,those people are not the leader, they are doing exactly what BC wants them to do…. that is why they are there. We are still calling for BC to repent and come clean to this community.

    Anything less, is just superficial and nothing more than a mere bandaid.

    Leadership continuing under a nonrepentant leaders is still corrupt leadership.

    BC, you can’t hide behind your team.

  479. What's happening at AFC says:

    I wish the DNA test was done too, then it would prove the innocence of a man that has a mandate to preach the gospel. I wish CL would just give into it already, and not let an innocent man ta