When she went on Carman’s TV show on TBN (Sept. 12, 2007 episode), Paula White gave no hint whatsoever of taking personal responsibility for her divorce. Instead, everything she said made it clear that she believes that her divorce is nothing but a trial that God has brought into her life, totally beyond her own control, and for which she bares no blame.
She was very careful to spin her words so as to avoid any discussion of the wrongness of divorce, or of she and Randy’s personal responsibility for making an unbiblical decision. Instead, she only discussed her divorce as a trial which she cannot control or correct, which is what she is biblically bound to do through restoration and reconciliation with Randy. The reality of divorce being a personal decision that is in violation of Scripture and that can be repented of, does not enter the discussion.
Here are the statements she made that clearly reveal her attitude, taken from a transcript of the interview:
“I embrace the concept that I would not let my trial be wasted in life,”
“I often say ‘I didn’t write the script, but I’m learning to live it out with the best of my ability for the honor of God, with dignity, with grace, with favor, embracing His word.”
“Some of the greatest development in the men and women of God … were those in adverse situation, those in opposition. But it pulled out because you had that decision. You can either gravitate and put your hand to the plow and say, ‘Okay, God, I don’t get this one; I don’t even like this one. But still what do You have to say to me? I will not be moved.'”
“Because when you know who you are and whose you are, I believe it gives you that inner fortitude and that strength to face whatever life situation you may have to go through,”
“When I don’t understand life, I’m not going to draw back. I have decided to do one thing even my mind doesn’t comprehend it – draw nigh,”
“I believe when people can find out who they are, then you can be equipped to handle life’s situations.”
Many of the things she says are true statements WHEN they are in reference to trials and circumstances beyond our control, such as sicknesses, death of a loved one, natural disasters, etc. But it is presumptuous and arrogant to say these things in reference to sinful personal choices she and Randy have made.
She is excusing what she is doing. She is absolving herself of any personal responsibility for bringing this “trial” to pass herself, or for fulfilling the duty to stop the divorce and reconcile with her husband, and in the process is making God out to be the cause of this divorce. That is blatant arrogance and an act of being self-willed. She is spinning the rhetoric to make herself look good.
Carman, being aware of the critics of Paula, had the arrogance to say that people who don’t have the “wherewithal” to assess the situation should not judge Paula or “open that person up to look,” as he put it.
Who would that be Carman? Anyone who would dare criticize Paula? Listen, Randy and Paula promote themselves as ministers of Christ, and they do so very publicly. Anyone with a clear understanding of the Biblical teaching on divorce does in fact have the “wherewithal” to comment on the situation by calling them to repent of their now-public sin, their continued denial of personal responsibility, and their God-blaming. Shame on you Carman for tolerating her self-justifying and God-blaming comments on your show and then chiding those of us who would seek to call her to repentance and obedience to Scripture.
She is not the helpless victim she is making herself out to be. She shares responsibility with Randy to seek reconciliation. She needs to shut her mouth about how much this is a God-sent trial. It isn’t, it was brought upon them by themselves, and it is correctable if they’ll only heed Biblical counsel and submit to the Word of God. She needs to quit deceiving herself that God is going to bless her for her response in this situation. He won’t do that until her response is to obey His clearly revealed will regarding divorce and marriage, which is plainly spelled out in His Word. So far, she and Randy have ignored it.
Paula seems too caught up in staying on top of her game, being famous, being the life coach to the stars, and keeping the large donations coming in to be Biblical. Her words continue to reveal that it really is all about her. That’s the core of the prosperity message she champions. Being broken publicly and confessing her sin with humility seems to be the furthest thing from her mind. Her willful disobedience to Scripture and her presumptuous defense of herself is a dishonor to Christ, His Word, and His church.
(HT: to Nathan Williams for the pointer to the article)
Scott W. Kay 
This is all so disturbing….I am waiting for God to take these pimps down off their high-horses! Or should I say high-Bentleys?
All we should be doing is to pray for Paula White and Juanita Bynum, for there is no doubt that they are true women of God, but the enemy is just behind to destroy them. I hope and pray that people should tests the spirit behind all of this, because if people are not careful, they will end up not following Christ and that is the plan of the enemy.
U right about that they truely are women of God they both have taught me so much an have taken my spiritual walk from level to level.The enemy will not get the better of them in jesus name
all the prosperity doctrine preachers are whores of satan.
All we should be doing is to pray for Paula White and Juanita Bynum, for there is no doubt that they are true women of God, but the enemy is just behind to destroy them. I hope and pray that people should tests the spirit behind all of this, because if people are not careful, they will end up not following Christ and that is the plan of the enemy. Who are we to judge.
Yes we should pray for them. As to whether or not they are true women of God I don’t know. But I do know women should not be preaching and there is something very wrong if a woman claims to be a Christian, yet will not follow the commands God has given in His word. Also Paula and Randy shouldn’t have even married each other in the first place since they were married before and had divorced. They were living in adultery the whole time they were married to each other and then divorcing each other just added to the sins they have committed against God.
She definitely is a false prophet! Pray for her though…. I am.
http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
tim kurek
she is a extremly powerful women that has touched the world dont judge her on one trial but look at the difference she has made in many peoples lives. judge yourself an leave paula alone.She as done more for God than all who are judging her.
God hates divorce ! Does he do that which he does not like. Give me the scripture.
Good call on this one. I don’t typically pay much attention to the TBN types. But this particular issue, has really bugged me. Its issues like this one, and the irresponsible way in which they are handling it, that make it even more difficult for other Christians to be seen as relevant.
she is not God weather she is wrong or right she is not perfect but indeed a awesome women that has done more for God than most people.Pray that the enemy get his hands off all her affairs so she can do what she does best serving the lord an spreadind the word
Either she is your sister, neighbor, or enemy. But whichever we are called to love, 1 Corinth 13:4-7,
Scott, the father has put something better than this in you. Choose.
JP,
Your “midrash” continues to come across as very condescending toward me and full of assumptions about what you do not know about me.
First, I had too many degrees. Then, I wasn’t “real” enough for you (someone you’ve never met). Then the Gospel wasn’t clear enough for your satisfaction. Then, when it was given clearly, you dismissed it as too theological. Then you insinuated that my explanation of the Gospel isn’t relevant to my worldview. Then you mock my definition of the Gospel as if it were not the message of Jesus, because Jesus might not have used my exact words, even though those words are exactly true of the Gospel. Then you put an offensively vulgar acronym both in God’s mouth and on my blog. Now, you condescend even further toward me by judging me for not being as loving toward a professed Christian as you deem sufficient. To top things off, you insinuate that I am being Pharisaical in giving theological responses or in calling a professed Christian to repentance. It is you that has been Pharisaical toward me from the start. I can take honest and respectful give-and-take, but you’ve got to loose the condescension, brother. The Father has put something better than that in you. Please play nice or go home. Choose.
bye
lol. scott’s right.
James 1: 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
First and foremost I want to apologize. It was and is not my purpose to be construed as condescending or to injure you in any manner. I have sat with pastors and friends who have their masters and doctorates and I am considerate of their learning.
The comment to be real is a device we use to remind ourselves that the language of academia and of the church is usually not the language of the marketplace. It was my desire to relate at the level where Jesus ministered most often, outside the wall and in the marketplace. Unfortunately my poorly conceived attempt did not accomplish the desired relational interaction. For that you have my sincere apology.
Unfortunately in any relational intercourse, if one believes the other party to be untruthful then the whole discourse is broken. As you believe me to be such, I see no reason to proceed.
So I bid you adieu and in the name of Jesus I pray that the Father would grant you to be mightily strengthened by his Spirit in the inward man: that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith; that, being rooted and founded in love, you may be completely able to apprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,– even to know the love of Christ; which surpasses knowledge; that you might be filled with all the fullness of God.
JP,
I very much appreciate your words. Thank you for saying them.
Please know that I sincerely share with you the desire to express the message of Jesus in a way that is accessible to most readers. I say “most” because, due to the nature of this particular medium, and the nature of particular (debatable) issues, I think it sometimes requires some rather involved explanations that can sometimes sound churchy or technical or from the academy. So when asked about specifics, I do try to be as clear as possible, hence my answer on the Gospel. Typically those kinds of things usually only show up in the course of the conversation posted in the comments when people are debating over specifics.
So thank you for the reminder to avoid the academia-sounding approach and keep things at a marketplace level here. I think we share the same desire on that, and sincerely hope that that’s what folks will see here as the normal pattern. Thank you also for your kind words of prayer. May the Lord do the same for you. Blessings, brother.
“Pastor” Dustin Hawkins of Family Praise Center in San Antonio may have clued us in on the issue at stake here through a message I just watched him preach on TBN (up late, insominia). Hawkins, whose father “Bishop” Rich Hawkins is the suspected paramore of the above mentioned Paula “Plastica” White, stated quite clearly that the “rules” and “regulations” developed in the letters and epistles, aside from the actuall words of Christ in the gospels, were merely, “subjective truth.” Using John chapter 8 as the fulcrum from which to balance his arguement Hawkins, which his big daddy bishop watching on from a comfy chair on the side of the stage, goes on to state that Christ’s lack of concern for the adultuerous woman was clear eveidence that God (in the person of Christ, at least) was not at all concerned with our sin; Jesus simply ignored the woman focusing only on the scribes and pharises as they continued to press him about the application of the Law in this particular case. By ignoring the woman, Christ was signaling to his believers that they are not to judge nor are they to chastize those in the church body who have sin (note: not “sinned”).
All of this is easy to do when the rest of the New Testament is busted down to “subjective” truth status. If Paul’s directives to Timothy or Titus are merely opinions and carry little or no weight when compared to the words of Christ then anything is possible. Even a possible future marriage between Plastic Paula and Hawkin’s jolly rancher paw. Ironically, or maybe by design, most of White’s defenders on this issue really take a shine to John 8 as a major counter defense against any calls for repentance and/or stepping down. Maybe believers ought to dispense with the rest of the Bible with the exception of John 8 (even thught the verses that comprise the story in question are not present in every existant copy of the Gospel of John).
One last thing, there’s seems to be this assumption that all these yahoos and theological morons are christians to begin with. I am of the opinion that they are not and maybe never were. I don’t say this as a fact, I merely wanted to throw that line of thinking out there in lieu of the tendency of christians to accept just about anyone into their churches (or community at large) without much evaluation as to were these folks come from or where they got their biblical training or whether they just might be schisters. Now I’ll make like Christ and go scribble in the sand for a while.
Wow…well said…
WOW! Excellent commentary regarding this situation concerning Randy and Paula White. I especially appreciate your statement that any person who has a sound understanding of Scripture, can and should correct those who are in disobedience to the Word of God. God’s Word is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, and this is our basis for commenting on issues such as this one.
How blasphemous it is to also say that God has placed this trial in her life. NO WAY!!! For Paula to say that contradicts the very word of God (James 1:13-15).
Today’s church needs to wake up and read 2 Peter 2 and get their eyes opened up to what has been deceiving them for far too long.
Derrick – Wow, that is incredible that they just blatantly destroy the objective nature of the truth penned by the apostle Paul. I guess they have to in order to keep justifying their sin and error. The Scriptures get in their way, so they explain it away. You’re right, it sounds like what unbelievers do, doesn’t it? Since you live nearby, I guess you’ll get to see the circus up close and personal.
Kurt – Yes, a fresh re-reading of 2 Peter 2 would go a long way to cleaning house in the church, wouldn’t it? Peter takes no prisoners with false teachers like these. He says some pretty tough stuff! He has no tolerance whatsoever for them, only promises of divine judgment. I pray people will be more discerning. That’s been my aim in writing these posts on these people. Thanks for commenting!
I just came across this site…I had not seen the interview with TBN. I had to turn it off as soon as I heard Carmen refer to Paula White as Princess Diana….O’my!!!
Barbara – You’re right, it’s sickening to watch the man-centered glorifying of people who CLAIM to be the ministers of Christ. I think if Carmen would have done that to the apostle Paul, Paul would have rebuked him, and made it painfully clear that Paul was nothing (not to mention not a Prince!) and Christ is the King. That’s the difference between Paul and Paula. He cared about one thing and one thing alone the glory of Christ in the Gospel. Paula not only gets the Gospel terribly wrong, but she is about her own glory. That much is evident. People love to worship celebrity, and Paula gives them what they want. While Paul gave them what they needed most – Christ.
funny you feel that way brother that she gets the gospel wrong because from where i am coming from not only has her teaching changed the lives of thousands of peolpe who are now serving God an doind Gods work. Who is man to judge her an say weather or not she knows God.Why do people only look at the bad an not the good.I may not know alot but your”ll that should be standing in prayer with her judge her. now i understand that verse those that think of themselfs wise become fools.That women does more for God than most people pray for her rather than judge
Wow, this whole divorce thing scares me to bits. I’m divorced myself cos there was no love between us plus he cheated on me and could never talk about it. Separated now but not yet legally divorced. Had 2 affairs after the separation. Where does that leave me? Scary.
Benny,
Sounds like you’ve been through some tough times. Jesus tells you that since your husband has committed adultery against you, you do have biblical grounds for divorce. See Matthew 19. You are in a very different situation than the one Paula and Randy White are in. They do not have Biblical grounds for divorce, but sounds like you do. So do not despair. Go in peace. and may the Lord heal your wounded heart. Your husband is the one in sin here. But He does not stand to condemn you, only to receive you in His love.
Benny,
Even if you have legal rights and scriptural backing to divorce, the bible has said do not remarry cos if you do it would be adultry so your having affairs is not God will.
I am sorry Annette, I disagree. That’s where a lot of Christians are misinformed. There are many books, well reviewed by theologians and pastors alike, that look into what the Bible says about divorce and remarriage, and it is not like what most Christians mistakenly think.
The Bible doesn’t say that if you remarry you are having affairs! In fact in the first century, it was understood that if a person had a certificate of divorce, it was a provision from God TO remarry. What God hates was the putting away of wives whenever the men (it was a patriarchal society) had had enough of these women. He wanted them to be properly divorced so that they could remarry.
And the Jews of Jesus’ time understood clearly the Law of Moses – that adultery was not the ONLY grounds for divorce. Which makes sense: if you are married to someone who threatens to kill you but has not slept with someone else, your covenant isn’t broken? God thinks more of sex than murder?? I know of a woman who is now dead because she didn’t think she had grounds to leave her husband. She kept the marriage intact to please God and the church. She lost her life, her husband is in jail and her kids are orphans. I suppose some people are happy that at least her marriage was intact.
Contradiction: apostle Paul actually says that a woman should not separate from her husband for any reason! Mr Benny lean to Gods grace its not about legalities. What Jesus was saying is that you cannnot jusptify anything yourself. The only justification is through Jesus death on the cross. And your faith that it was for you! He also said that if you look at a woman and lust for her in your heart you have already committed adultery. So have you been perfect no. Dont try to make sense of everything and figure God out. It can hinder you growth andprogress in God. Lean to His grace and His death for you. You are free. God said what He has brought together let no man usunder. No man but Jesus says that He can and will destroy the yolk. Go free. YOur faith can and will heal you!
scott you were not correct in telling benny that she has grounds for divorce you really need to go back and read the word of god right god allows you to divorce based on fornication and death fornication is when your spouse have had sexual relations with someone he/she are not married to and she is free to divorce and remarriage to someone else also she is free to remarry if her spouse pass away from death and also i would like to make light of some things the word says that we should not get into a debate about god children of the high most god read 1 cor 7 and you will get to know what god meant for marriage instead of listening to people concering marriage
These preachers are in association with other preachers who are committing the same offenses. We need to publically expose this coven of false preachers. Please, if you are in the San Diego County area, do not provide support of any kind to Barry Cook of Ambassador Family Church. He is in “ministerial relationship” with both Rick Hawkins and Paula White. http://WWW.ambassadorfamily.com claims to be the “Perfect church for people who are not.” This claim can also be found on Paula Whites WWIC website. Barry Cook divorced his wife after having an affair with his associate pastors wife resulting in pregnancy. (The marriage he broke up, he actually performed the wedding ceremony a couple of years previous.) Barry Cook placed the woman he had the affair with on staff. He continues to deceive our community with no conscious for the many families he is responsible for splitting up. It is unfathomable this reproach, yet he continues to pronounce himself Apostle over other apostles, pastors, teachers, etc.
I think it is interesting SG that you have such an opinion about something you know nothing about. My question to you is, when did God give you the power to be so overly righteous and judgemental? When did you get annointed to spread gossip and false truth? I’m shocked that anyone who calls themselves a Christian can get up on the internet, talk about a cheap talk that doesn’t promote the kindgom, and then turn around and praise Jesus. That is of course, if you even consider yourself a Christian any more. Amazing…well I am sure you know the scripture that goes along with your gossipping tongue. No wonder the secular society doesn’t take Christians seriously, there aren’t many Jesus followers who have learned to forgive, evrything is up for judgement. How do you save souls that way?
I SO AGREEE WITH YOU WHEN DID MAN BECOME SO POWERFUL
also agree..too much judgement of all kinds going around in the church today, makes me sick; Jesus said that those who judge will be judged
dont divorce ur husband nor ur wife bcos this is not the perfect will of God either for paula or for anyone.
Call AFC and speak to the pastor yourself and ask him. If these allegations are false than let this pastor explain the divorces that followed, the departure of key leaders, and the fact that many people came to us once they found out about the alledged affair to only confirm what we have already known. Were they all wrong? Did his wife divorce him because she just woke up and decided to walk away from years of ministry and devotion to her husband? Did the woman involved in the affair divorce her husband because of some sort of epidemic?
You are obviously checking the internet to find out what is being said about this situation. It is amazing how you feel so self righteous and annointed to defend such immorality without even asking the right person if what is being said is true. You are more concerned with what is being said vs the behavior described. If there is any chance that this is true, which I know that it is, you need to take yourself to the source or is it just easier for you to rant at me than to confront the truth.
While you are at it, ask the pastor about the souls of the people who have divorced as a result of this alleged affair. What happens to them as a result of the influence they allowed in their lives?
I’m not intimidated by your violent outrage motivated by your displaced loyalty to defend such evil behavior. Again, go ask the pastor. I’ll be real curious to hear his response.
Yes I am a Christian. If I died tomorrow I will go to heaven. This I base upon over 20 years of relationship with Jesus Christ. Thank you for your interest in my spiritual state, but I asure you that no apostacy has been commited on my part.
There are a lot of people both in the church and out of the church that ask why do we keep following blindly people who continually bear fruit of darkness. It is said of some Christians that we are weak in this area because of insecurity, lonliness, dysfunctions of all kinds. As soon as a Christian stands up against abuses in the church, people like you throw out your handy dandy scriptures trying to curse us with your pious attitude. Maybe we will see true Kingdom living in the house of God once it is cleansed from all the hypocrisy.
According to your doctrine, Christians should continue to cover up the abuses in the church and deceive the lost into submission to a false man or woman of god because it is somehow good for them. You are afraid that if they knew the truth they would not come to a particular church once they understood the hypocrisies inside.
This places the responsibility back on leadership to stop assuming that the sheep will continue to protect the hirelings in the pulpit. Any blood shed because of lost souls in on the hands of the ones forcing the deception to continue. Not on the people who are refusing to support ridiculous ministries full of lust and greed.
The failure of church leadership is the cause for many to be cautious of Christians not the general congregation. If pastors are scared their dirty laundry might become public, than this is a good thing. Maybe such scandalous behavior will lessen and evangelism will be more affective. It begins from the head up. I personally do require more from leadership to ensure Kingdom increase and stability. Maybe you are the one selling them short because of the mediocrity you’ve learned to accept.
Please forgive me for any offense I may have caused you. I know these things are difficult to take when you believe in something that is not what it appears to be. I hope that you will forgive me for any hurt that I may have caused. I can not do anything about the way things really are. Believe me, the aforementioned situation has been a very huge dissappointment.
First off I would like to know why you are watching people such as these who know nothing about the gospel of Jesus? Their carnal actions are small compaired to the venom they spray from the pulpit! You say you are secure that when you die you are going to heaven. when you die you are dead. Untill the return of christ thats where you will be if you are one of the choosen of God. If not you will wait on the second ressurection. Christ is the savior of the entire world, and some day every knee will bow and every tongue will proclaim Jesus as their Lord and the Father as God. So all the condemnation in the world does no good for those who are blinded to the truth. God will call all to repentence in his time not yours. You did not even choose God he choose you. Anything other than that nullifies His grace. In love and truth I pray for you and I ask you do the same for me and the rest of Gods creation. To the pure all things are pure, but to the defiled all things are defiled! thank you for your time and god bless.
Hi A. Vagle (sebsebbie),
Now that I know for sure who you are and that you are most likely involved with AFC I thoroughly understand your response to the information you’ve heard. I know it is difficult to process this type of information. Please know that it is your absolute right and responsibility to ask questions of your leadership. If you feel afraid for any reason to bring these issues up, than please take someone with you for support. There are certain people whose initials I will use here (Pastor GT, and wife AT, FC and wife NC, worship leader VL, Usher last intitial P and guest services coordinator CR used to be CL before the divorce) will not tell you the truth about this situation. They will convince that you have only heard an evil report to make you feel stupid for listening to such information. Believe me they will stare you down until you relent. You will have to insist to speak with the pastor himself. Any other person will try to deflect these types of questions away from the pastor so he personally is not found guilty of lying. You will have to find a way to confront him directly. Do not go alone. You will feel a rush of intimidation or fear come over you, but press on. Either way you will know you did everything you could to seek out the truth. Once you have asked the question, no matter if you are told the truth or not, you will be alienated from the flock and watched closely. Suddenly you will feel that you are no longer trusted. Only move forward if you know you will be able to handle what will come next.
Blessings to you sister.
I don’t think you know anything about me and who I am or how I am inolved or not involved with the church, you only have a name which isn’t even correct. You only have a perception. And that is your right. Here is my whole point. It is not to come out and say you are right, wrong or indifferent. I find that by being direct and to the point, creates an atmosphere of truth because sugar coating anything never got the church anywhere.
I have heared numerous rumors about people, places and things. The discernment of the spirit is what leads me to people and places. I do not know the validity of anyones claims, and I really don’t care to. I am not easily persuaded by gossip and rumors. My feeling with people and the church is two fold. There are plenty of people who have committed sin, and we are all ministers in our own right because that is what we were called to do, I don’t know how passing judgement is going to lead anyone closer to the spirit of Christ. Do not judge, I stand firmly on that. Furthermore, if the church is a place where a person feels mislead and decieved, then by all means, it is not a place for you. I agree, find another church and find another pastor.
My problem is that people aren’t perfect, not in ministry, governments and plenty of leaders that we vote for and run our country. But we don’t vote them out of office, our only defense is to gossip in tabloids and create problems. My question through all of this is why do we look at perceptions of ministry leaders and create opinions, ideas and thoughts? Why do we care so much? No ministry leader should be looked at so highly that we forget why we go to church. The pastor is not our Christ, he is not our Redeemer, he is only a sphere of influence, just like my sphere of influence includes friends at work, neighbors, my family. All who have issues I am certain they haven’t told me.
We as Christians are not looked at seriously because we don’t even take ourselves seriously. We get stuck on titles, positions, names and forget that a leader is only a leader if we let him become one. No offense, but I don’t “look up” to people as heroes, those to be followed, or esteem them in a place where only Christ should be. We need mentors, and I would lastly say that not all mentors are perfect either.
People have a decision to make about the church. Do you go to feel the presence of God, or do you go because you look up to someone. The Bible never told us to follow a leader in the church, it talks about the church being united as one body. This is the problem I see from having been to several churches with the similar histories in gossip, and what I will continue to see as jugements. Jesus never portrayed himself as anything other than a brother, a friend and the son of God, we have all chosen to create leaders based on our history as humans, quite frankly because we needed one. He told us to follow His teaching, and obey God’s Word. He was a Messenger and He made that known.
We all have our own hearts to reveal on the day of judgement. I don’t know that I want to be known for slander and the spreading of wildfire. I want Christ to know me for the one who wasn’t caught up with the ways of this world, and only cared to see His Glory manifest in everything. Perception, is just that, and there has to come a time where we go past perception and say to ourselves, reardless of what people do, I am required to love them anyway. Whether a person is guilty or not, we must find the good that Christ put in them. We must look at each other the way Christ sees each other.
That is why we are Christian.
Thank you for your opinion, I can appreciate differing views, but like you I am not swayed easily either. My judgement of this particular situation is based upon facts and not on my feelings. My personal feeling have nothing to do with what is. The facts are there if you are after the truth you will confront the situation as recommended.
The days of covering up for criminal and/or fraudulant behavior in the church are over. Some of us can go beyond our feelings about a situation and deal with facts no matter how difficult the truth is. To put one’s head in the sand and ignore what is right in front of you especially when a cover up is involved is not representing the Kingdom in any way no matter what “high road” you think you are taking.
Most of us understand the commandments of Love and the responsibility to JUDGE as Christians. It is a difficult task for those only mentored under an abusive authority. There are enough scriptures to prove both sides of the coin. The key is to be able to do both. My judgement of this situation has nothing to do with whether I love the people involved or not, it has to do with Love God and Hate sin.
When children are punished for doing wrong they will often reply with “you don’t love me.” When this first happens, parents will have to reinforce their love to that child for proper correction to take place. When that same child continues to use that comment, he or she has become successful at manipulating the parent. Soon a sense of entitlement is born and then the child is now running the household.
Yes, I feel extreme love and compassion for the people involved, I’ve known them all since 1998. However, I also know that they are running from the truth. Not only are in denial to protect their livelihoods, they are requiring the church to have to defend their actions. If they were truly operating in a leadership role in regards to this situation, you and I would not be having this conversation.
I love you sister. In order to seek peace in our Christian relationship, I will not continue this specific topic with you until you have spoken to the people involved for yourself. We will have to agree to disagree for now.
Success to the Kingdom, Success to you!!
It’s quite alright, I have enough information that I feel no need to discuss further with you or anyone else about a situation that does not create life.
There is no “High Road”, it is a judgement based on how a person chooses to live their life. I choose the way of Love Everyone and Judge Not Lest You Be Judged.
Further, I believe that the journey a person walks in life has everything to do with how they view situations and positions. Though I have never been in a situation as your claim about the pastor of the church you attended, I have been the center of gossip and humiliation with more than 3 witnesses who swore to things that never happened. I understand and know first hand how things can get thrown around. Though I make no judgement on the truth and severity of what happened with the pastor you are referring to, I leave myself open without judgement.
Again, this is why we all walked in our own wilderness. I have my experiences in life that I have learned to draw from, and you have yours. It is different, but respectful just the same.
I conclude my perspective on this topic. I hope you find a House you are comfortable with.
For the general reader unsure of the stand he or she should take if they receive evidence that there is any kind of criminal or fraudulant behavior coming from their church leadership, board, and/or ministerial and administrative staff:
The firt thing to do is set an appointment with the parties involved and communicate your concerns. Take elders, deacons or other leaders with you to ensure witnesses are present to judge motives, responses, and the overall atmosphere of the meeting. If a resolution is brought forth depending on the severity of the acts in question allow some time for restructure. Any and all criminal acts should be reported to your local authorities immediately. In the cases of fraudulant behavior, this is usually harder to prove and harder for some to admit too.
In my situation, my husband met with all of the pastoral staff of the church to discuss the ongoing sexual immorality throughout the church. Our sons were placed under the authority of some of the people in question, so we as parents needed to know what the church’s stand on immoral behavior was. Neither my husaband nor I had spoken to any other person regarding our concerns. We were told that we were coming against authority. My husband immediately responded by saying, “We are not coming against authority, we are coming to authority.”
We were left with no other choice than to remove ourselves from the church. Once the affair in question became more public, my husband and I went to a Sunday morning church service with the intent of speaking to the pastor after the service. Before we could even sit down, the pastor spotted my husband and sent 6 ushers to through him out of the church. (My husband had me wait in our vehicle until he felt it was safe to go in.) When I saw him coming out with the ushers around him, I thought he was coming to get me. He came up to the truck and said we are being thrown out.
Since that time we have seen several people from the church in our community. They asked us what happened. We told them the truth. We tried to deal with our concerns privately but were forced into a public forum because of the immediate cover up that ensued.
I worked voluntarily in federal and state prisons for years. We called the people who ran the yard shot callers. Boy you knew who was in charge and you knew when you better do what they say or else. Whether you’ve seen how it works in jail or on the streets, anyone caught being a snitch is a marked man. This is the only way I can help anyone who is interested in this story to understand the setting. When a Christian dares to call into guestion immoral behavior of their leaders, all the do not judge, love everyone, etc scriptures are thrown at you like grenade. If those scriptures could be launched as a weapon, a fire ball would be seen for miles. If you’ve ever experienced this type of abuse from leadership, you know what I am describing.
It is difficult to walk away from a place of worship where you have invested many years in building relationships, sowing financial seeds, and building ministry opportunities for evangelism, etc. Why are we still voicing our concerns, because we want our church back. Should the people be scattered because a few men decide to walk away from the scripture and live a duplicit lifestyle? In prison, the authorities can do very little to protect the general population from the shot callers. Christians should be able to defeat the wolves and not be stripped of their place in their assemblies because of evil men.
Even though we might not be able to benefit from the church that we helped to build naturally and spiritually, we do not give it up to treacherous men and women.
In closing, we have to make the stand trusting in God for the final outcome. Restoration is always promised. The people and the location may or may not change, but in the end we will see the Church prevail.
There are only 4 things to say about these people…Fake! Fake! Fake! and Fake!
could other men of God still standing in the Lord help this issue, help thse couples out before we see total error manifested in the body of Christ.They sould quit public ministry and sort out their lives first before God’s judgement decends. god forbid. Who will listen to them
RE: “Paula White Blames God for Her Divorce”
Ye though I have never met nor seen a perfect individual. Romans 3:2 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Check yourself sir before publishing, & labeling/judging people. Matt 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Final say! Please every one of you open the Bible and read, and post just what God says in His Word. Then there will be no judging, only remains the truth, that makes God the Judge, and He is the only one that brings Holy Ghost Conviction. Leave it in God’s hands,
God Bless All.
Jesus came to forgive each of us of our sins, I believe that God will restore what the swarming locusts have eaten. Lord I pray you would heal these relationships and church families, please put your rightousness back into the church. There is so much hurt involved in these situations please heal all involved. We love you Lord and know that with you ALL things are possible. The Lord hears the prayers of His people and He will hear ours for these situations.
I am a former member of Ambassador Family Church. I left there several years ago to relocate to another state, but I still love my AFC family (and always will). I’m grieved by the adultery situation that has taken place as well as the public maligning that is occurring also. I think it’s obvious that what happened was wrong. Look at the fruit – marriages have been destroyed, ministry partnerships have been severed and a powerful church has been shaken to its core. But this was (and is) a church that has and will continue to birth great ministries. What can we do to help AFC get restored to its rightful spiritual place? Honesty and transparency is definitely required at this point, for it does no good to cover up. Also, perhaps this situation, terrible though it is, will serve to bring humility to many in AFC leadership. Although they will probably balk at this, the truth is that many AFC leaders had become very arrogant. You can’t minister to the flock when you look down on them. So although this is a horrible situation, I believe God will use it (even though He didn’t cause it) to bring correction and restoration to His body. AFC, though bruised and battered, is still a house of God.
You guys are trippin…God will judge His house…He can handle it! Many of these people you speak of will come back…better…stronger and more Christ like…I have seen it so many times over the years. Also many who bloged here… who say they know facts and relate storys as facts… are really reprobates themselves in the christian community. I happen to be very fimular with the stories written about here…a insider if you will…many of the “facts” you speak of were reviewed throughly by thier spiritual oversight and/or concerned mentors…and almost every account was proven to be without merit and proven to be without substance… I know this for a fact… It is good advise for them never to let those like you… who speak from a vengeful attitude to give you hearing. Your comments stem from bitterness and are full of self rightous judgement. They are not evil people and do not desire to hurt anyone and would never attack like you. Every one knows you and your history of anger and being kicked out of churches for your angry bitter spirits. How did your sons turn out…by the way. Grace to the mountain. Can these burnt stones be rebuilt?…can these dry bones live? YES! The real church will be those who have come face to face with thier issues…meet mercy…they will know it is by faith in His grace alone…not by there religious law or ministry abilities but by Christ alone. How else will the church be rightous except by every man finding out he can”t do it…nor can you my rock throwing friends. FPC nad AFC do not and have not had a relationship for years now…once again your facts are SO bogus…later!
My personal opinion (which is all that it is), is that this divorce was simply a business decision on both of their parts. Sorry, I’ve dealt with too many people who have gone through this sort of thing to believe the reality of the service where they announced their intentions to divorce. I don’t care how “amicable” the breakup, folks in this situation don’t express this much goodwill towards each other at this stage (Randi spoke of continuing to support her and having her back to preach). If they were on such good terms, why did they split up? Where was the heartache? Anger? Bitter disappointment? Sorrow? Grief? Even unbelievers show more genuine emotion than they did. It makes zero sense and is completely counter to human experience.
So, either (a) they are the greatest actor couple since Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor or (b) this was not a divorce in the normal, because it was not a marriage in the normal sense. This service was much closer in feel and flavor to two business partners announcing that one was leaving to start up a new company. Or, in church terms, it was closer to what you would see a staff member/pastor announces that they are leaving to go to a new position.
Which is what I suspect this really was. Call me a cynic (obviously, in this case I am), but part of me suspect that was simply a way to expand their business “enterprise”. After all, the existing church is already going great guns. So why waste two mega-stars on it? By going their separate ways, the can have two two cash cows. Sure, Randi’s church will likely see some drop in revenue, but that will be more than offset by Paula’s hot new WOF complex in Texas (or where ever it is). This is simply splitting off a new franchise. No different really, than any other television spin-off.
Please account for the divorce of the senior pastor and his wife and the associate pastor and his wife and the exodus of key leaders in the church. If all these facts are bogus than why did the divorces take place? If there are no scriptural grounds such as adultery, than what is the explanation? Scripturally, we are to stay married to our spouses regardless of some recent false doctrines that teach us that we are sometimes married for only a season. Where is the scriptural foundations for that?
My family and I have never been kicked out of any church. Name the church smart guy. Name the person who kicked us out. You can’t because it doesn’t exist.
As far as my sons. One of them is graduating from the Sheriff’s Academy on the 12th of December with honors. He has received numerous accomodations from our local sheriff’s department for his volunteer time with at risk youth here in our town. He mentored many young people and as a result, lives were really turned around.
As a result of his relationship with the so called youth leaders at your beloved church, he was introduced to immorality and rebellion. This led him and other youths into a duplicit lifestyle completely unknown to him prior to his involvement with this youth group. He unfortunately like many others from this group got involved with drugs and other illegal activites. How many unwed pregnancies came out of that youth group. I can name at least 3. How many kids were arrested? How many kids committed suicide? How many kids ended up striping in a local club? How about LD the piano player. Why did he leave the church?
My oldest son is paying his debt to society for his bad choices and now he is prospering more than he ever did at AFC.
You think you can detract from the truth with your silly accusations and down right denials of misconduct, but you are the one that is deceived. This wrong doing will not go unpunished. Count on it. Read you Bible and find out what it has to say about what happens to people who offend God’s children. If I recall there is something about a millstone and a lake of fire. Check it out.
Who is this so called group of mentors who supposedly counseled this man? Name them so we can call and verify their findings. Excuse me if we don’t take your word for it.
No my facts are not bogus about FPC and AFC’s relationship. You just verified it. Thank you. Why did they discontinue fellowship? Hawkins and Cook were very close and Hawkins mininstered several times at AFC while we were there and he continued for some portion of time afterward. We got the flyers in the mail. What happened? One wouldn’t submit to the other.?Too many cooks in the kitchen. Hello!!
No one is angry here brother but the devil and the people who thought they had this all sowed up with their settlement deals and whatever else was used to silence the afflicted.
The reason the rebuke is now made public is because these preachers were too arrogant to answer to the allegation in private. They snubbed their noses and declared their self imposed authority as a scape goat. They think way too highly of themselves to have to give an account to anyone.
Let us settle this once and for all. Take a DNA test and a lie detector test? If all the facts are bogus as you suggest than no one should be worried, right?
Put your money where your mouth is my friend. If these things are true, the once genuine move of God is no longer present. Just because a person can sign a lease and put a sign out front doesn’t make it God. Look down the road at the Rosicrusion fellowship. They own millions of dollars worth of prime real estate and they have pictures of Jesus all over the place. What do you think eternity has in store for them? Deception is deception and people who peddle it for profit in the name of God will indeed be judged by Him.
AFC, Jesus has left the building. Admit it and move on.
The only time we’ve ever been asked to leave any church, is the time we came to speak to Barry Cook personally regarding these allegations. Thank you again for verifying that we were there and that this situation took place.
We wanted answers and we are entitled to answers. Instead, your pastor hid behind a bunch of sheep. Why didn’t he just take the meeting?
How come everytime someone challenges your pastor he used the same excuse. “Oh they are just hurt or they are just angry.” You guys believe that lie and you think he respects your loyalty. He walks away and thinks “idiots.” He has all of you right where he wants you, eating out of his hand and fighting his battles. What kind of pastor uses the sheep that way? Isn’t that the definition of a hireling?
My god, the cultish atmosphere is worse than I ever imagined. God help these people. Set them free from all the fear and intimidation. Expose the lies and bring forth true revival again to North County. In Jesus’ Name.
You claim that Cook didn’t talk to us because of anger or bitterness. (Which by the way is a completely false characterization and self serving to boot.)
Thank you again for confirming that we tried to speak to this man privately before speaking out publically.
I guess we’ve got his attention now.
You claim that this pastor would never attack another person.
Than why did he publically slander the character of Dan Jackson when he left the church. Mr Jackson retired from the Marine Corps with honors. I know I was there at the ceremony. He decided to serve as Cook’s armour bearer and after he challenged Cook with his concerns, Cook took a portion of a service and publically characterized Dan as a traitor. My husband sat in that service and yelled out, “Circle the Wagons Boys!” He was very disgusted by the way Cook treated Dan Jackson. Remember the video that was played with Hawkins prophesying there is one amoung you that will betray you. This was meant for Dan Jackson, but I guess we know now who the real traitor is.
Dan Jackson had adopted 4 children and raised them as his own. Dan’s poor wife was alienated for her concerns about Dan’s involvement with Cook. This entire family moved away and never retaliated for Cook’s betrayal. Mrs. Cook once characterized to me that Mrs. Jackson was “whimsical.” Mrs Jackson served as a reservist who had command over many other soldiers. She has more dignity and honor that this group will ever truly pocess.
What about the public maligning of Vince Limon for leaving the Church and divorcing his wife after he found out about the affair. I believe the attack from Cook was something like, “If Vince was taking care of his wife like he should have, this situation would never have happened.”
Your pastor will attack anyone quick fast and in a hurry for challenging him. The difference between he and us is that he won’t do it to your face. At least we took this to him first.
What say you?
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3710230613
Go to this address to read another account of Cooks personal attack against Vince Limon. This is an entirely seperate account of the same situation we mentioned above.
Lastly, I will comment as to why Cook accuses people of being angry when he is confronted.
Cook knows that there are certain people out there that he can not control with fear, intimidation, and other forms of manipulation. Therefore, he is highly threatened by their challenge(s) to his character. He can not get away with looking them in the eye and lying to them outright. Cook is afraid of these people. He is the one that is angry because he knows he is not in complete control and therefore he will not meet face to face.
We have as recently as a week ago emailed the church and asked to meet with the leadership regarding these issues. The meeting was once again refused.
The invitation stands, however, don’t expect that Cook or his people will set the terms and the conditions of that meeting. We gave them our home number. They can use it anytime.
A couple of weeks ago on a public access channel in our area, Cook was heard talking about how he has been through so much the last fews years. He generalized these statements to make the viewer assume something out of his control is going on in his life. Like an outward attack and not a self inflicted problem caused by personal misconduct. He looked wearied as he tried to play the victim
Our observation or opinion of this is: I will use an analogy relatable to a lot people.
Cook appeared to be showing the same kind of stress factors related to someone being held over for trial. An accused person who can not afford bail will sit in a county facility awaiting trial and sentencing. During this time, he/she is instructed by a DEFENSE attorney to keep their mouths shut. In the meantime the PROSECUTING attorney is preparing the case and gathering the evidence for a readiness hearing and/or a preliminary hearing. If enough evidence is presented, the case will be held over for trial. A person can sit in county lock up for months even years waiting on the public hearing to take place. This occurs because they have given up their right to a speedy trial and therefore forcing the hand of the prosecuting attorney/district attorney. We have the right to a speedy trial, but if you are guilty, most people want to wait for discovery in order to prepare a defense. Eventually, that public hearing is going to take place. And if the accused is found guilty, he/she will be sentenced for their misconduct. This process can be lengthy and very costly to both the state and the defendant. But in the end, the truth prevails and the public at large is served.
In order to prevent a public trial and expense of a public trial, plea bargains are made. If the accused confesses his/her crimes a lighter sentence is usually imposed. However, if a GUILTY person insist on a public trial, the sentence is usually more severe. (Unless of course you live in Hollywood or something. )
Whoever counsels ministers of God from the perspective of a DEFENSE attorney only is doing those people a disservice. Especially when you consider the risk. A responsible counselor will not advise a cover up because eventually the truth is going to catch up with you. Hello OJ and the Vegas debacle. Your sin will find you out.
Innocent blood cries out for justice in the land. Whatever dry bones (representing the Spirit of God) and burnt stones (Cleansing) that will arise will do so to reproduce Jesus Christ who is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. It will not do so to validate a CrOOK amoungst us.
Still getting to the bottom of it…………..
Hey…I heard that BC loved D J and still does and he misses him dearly. The way it went down may be the issue…I’m not sure…but I am sure he loves him.
VL didn’t leave because of the “baby”…I am sure of that also…he left first on his own for his own issues. A few of the Elders meet with V for months… WHEN …V would show up and supposedley…said by more than one… who was there at that time… he was not dealing with his wife …at THAT time…he was dealing with several personal issues…I am being nice here…to my understanding the whole marriage was pretty rocky from the get go. When it blew up between them… I understand it was because VL had not been coming home at least a couple nights a week…this was early on. By the way I don’t go to or belong to AFC. But have been around simply because of who I was with and heard these conversation. It is allot to the situation. The pastor may have been prideful and ashamed it was happening… in his upperline leadership and made some bad decisions …on how he handled everything… but ( be nice to me I am just talking ..ok…I am not a bc fan either ) MY honest belief is that he is not guilty as charged by you…there is ALLOT to the story we wont ever know…and later by admission of CL in a room filled with Elders, deacons and office staff…and that day she confesed and made mention of who and when that was…but by your comments I see you had a different possibility in mind… ( to the best of my limited knowledge )…Anyway…Pastor ask what THEY wanted to do about it and THEY CHOSE to cover her…they all got up and surrounded her and rebuked and exorted and loved her. I heard it was sincerly a touching moment…. Also… that __ and __ were also the first ones to get up and lead the forgiveness and release. Dont get mad at me though …I am just cybering this blog…
Lastly..does not scr. teach somewhere in the Epistles…that somethings are brought to judgement by God now and others when they stand before him. MAYBE it was set up skillfully by the enemy and Many were weaved into a strategem of the enemy. Not to by pass personal responsiblity.
I pray God turns the hearts of all involved… even us…and gets glory by all involved. He can do it…and He is faithful over what is His…vengence and mercy are never friends. My pastor use to say…start interceeding and bless them and God will have His way… and my heart would be kept tender before the Lord.
Blessing!
I know a little bit about BC marriage.
First off I don’t belong to this church or any church for that matter but my job did intersect with this story.
BC and TC were having trouble for years they had a great working relationship and when TC had a nervous breakdown during the building program because the contractor was stealing and doing faulty work and I understand verberly abusing TC, in which BC did defend. Tensions were high,TC, she cracked for real under the pressure. After that TC had made up her mind. I do agree BC made some decisions under tremendous stress. TC did not leave because of adultry. I repeat she did not leave because BC was doing or had done anyone.
TC has personally told many people this and wrote in print as well. But she often says “she is nice to the nice but mean to the mean” Many have also found this out. I heard that they had not had sex in years and that he raised the daughter and she was bubbly in public but detatched at home. She nagged him and demeaned like crazy in our meetings. By the way my source is TC herself all of this out of her mouth. She is very guarded and overtime talked often after we had done business. She even told me she never helped around the house or hadent kissed him in years because she doen’t won’t too. Hell, I would have left her first, if I was him.
I don’t know much about your faith and belief but BC is a broken…kind man. For that matter BC was a class A guy and IF he leaves I will be the first to offer him a job. And she was for the most part a pleasure to work with.
You said the bible teaches that the only reason for a divorce is adultry. If that is the case with you, then I can tell you for sure that “THAT” is what they are guilty of doing. Thay did not divorce because of BC proported scandal. They divorced because she said “I am leaving, I love you but not like this , I know you may not understand but this is what I am doing”. They went to secular councel and christian for years. But she told me she would not co-operate, because she wanted another life. It is unfortunate how issues crossed and things blew up so huge.
She even told me some crazy person sent a letter saying she got someone to have a male child for her, this was some person who had left the church. Many christians I have found are self rightous crazies who long for attention under deep anger issues. Yea yea I know I am rambling on while I am posting on a christian blog.
So let me make a controversial point!
Here is how dumb I think you christians are;
When you thought the church was a “move of God”; all of this was happening. You blame it on BC, VL AND CL but all of the crap was going on during that time. You know what the difference is? You werent broadcasting your percieved offence.! Along with whoever else is . He didn’t destroy the church you and others like you did in my mind. They have handled ALL the s__t much better than most people. You guys crack me up how you “expose” your stuff to the world. If you are the ones who REALLY care I would hate to meet the others. I don’t know you church people but you are mean and I would not talk to you either. Just because you come across like you were sent to be God. That is a huge reason I don’t go to church. Mean people suck.
They don’t talk about it because they are trying to get back up and put there lives together. You still tear down. Why don’t you focus on converting people like me instead. ha ha
I will check back another day.
Good luck
You have claimed that you ‘”both” are not either past and/or present members of AFC. We were actually there. Eye witnessing the unfolding of these issues. You can not and have not reconciled these issues with third party denials.
There is only one way to settle this matter. Take a DNA test and a lie detector test to prove no adultery and no child outside of the marriage(s).
It is too much of coincidence that both marriages failed at the same time.
There are several other confirmations by other people who actually went to AFC of an extra marital affair between BC and CL.
This is no vendetta against anyone. However, the truth is still the goal. I know that might be “crazy” to some folks, but to others it is the only way to live free from bondage.
Is DB Diana Beggs and is OM Olen McCardell? If so, you both have misled the blog about your connection to this situation. Did you get a phone call asking you to come on here in an attempt to offset the allegations? In all the above ramblings of half way denials, no absolute denial is made about adultery in these two marriages involving one spouse from each marriage. Why, because you don’t know anything other than what you have been told to believe and therefore speak. Not mad at you either, just cybering the blog.
In regards to the “break down.” One question. Could the break down have had anything to do with the pressure of keeping up the “act” for so long?
Again, we invite BC, CL, TC and VL to sit down face to face and discuss this matter. You’ve got my phone number and my email address.
We look forward to hearing from you soon.
Warmest Regards.
Regarding Teri Cook.
It is astonishing how you are throwing Teri Cook under the bus to alleviate the pressure from BC. Afer years of observing Mrs. Cook personally, this is my opinion of this situation as it relates to her and her marriage.
I knew her and honestly, she brought a lot of this on herself.
However, I do believe she was a victim to much emotional abuse and manipulation by her husband. Teri was so insecure because no matter what she did and how she looked she could never please this man. And believe me I know she tried. Unfortunately she did not ever get the unconditional love from him that she craved. It was always about what she could do for him, not about who she was.
In one woman’s meeting at AFC, Teri Cook with much uncontrolled emotions told the woman of AFC that if we did not look like Barbie for our husbands that someone would be Barbie for our husbands.
What kind of statement do you think that is? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out what was going on behind closed doors with this woman. She craved attention and if she had to get it from our husbands she was not beneath doing so. I do not believe she meant her flirtations seriously because I believe she loved God and would not cross that line. However, she wanted attention and she knew exactly how to flaunt herself and her sexuality in mixed company without “crossing that line.” This observation is from first hand experience.
My own husband refused to act as her personal usher because of the inappropriate way that she behaved with other men.
This wife was unloved, unprotected, and uncovered. Now she is being put to blame for all of this. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Obviously, these people had no business pastoring a church then or now. We bless them to open a business that would better suit their abilities and level of character. The house of God is no place to play church.
Love and Blessings to the People of God.
You should get a life…really. I have nothing to gain and nothing to loose. Everything I said was seen first hand and heard first hand as I have stated. My contact was with BC and TC was business only. My observation was not siding with one or either it was what I observed, over a 2 year period as a vendor.
Don’t accuse me of being called by any body to write here, your are a little scary. Again, I think they are not answering because they are hurt by you and others like you. They owe you nothing regardless of what you say. From working with both of them I can tell you BC was loving , kind and patient. That was my experience. I’m sorry my experience doesn’t fit your story.
But it is my my observation. If I have one different from you, many others outside your circle of vampires have there “facts” also. My experience was different they had no problem answering many who enquired even meeting with them together. I don’t know a whole lot about the bible but I think you may be a pharisee. So they don’t wont to meet with you and if they were to ask me I would tell them not to talk to you, because if you are not healing you are destroying. He is healing many regardless of your view. Your not, you are tearing up. They aren’t playing church. Both of them took church very seriously in my experience. Even if there was some type of trouble allong the way. I will count my time with them as a huge benefit to my life in many ways.
Listen I don’t have a dog in the fight here. So thank you for listening.
Love and Blessings to the whole world in which your savior died.
May the Cs live on and prosper!
You are not in direct knowledge of what went on in the church as a member and so your experience is limited to what you were told about the situation.
Your temporary business association with the Cooks is a complete and seperate issue than our experience as people who attended the church from 1999-2004. You are entitled to your observations, but they do not offset or reconcile the situation at hand. We are nowhere near the black yet….still operating in the red.
Therefore, you can only give testimony from the view point of an outsider whose life was not negatively affected by years of duplicity from these pastors.
May all unrighteousness be cleansed from the Church.
You were paid money to provide a service and they needed “work” done their way. A professional relationship can not be compared to a relationship between a pastor over a congregation. This is apples and oranges.
Other people have testified that their experience included many hurts and disappointments. Some hurts were personal and others were inflicted upon them by watching people they love turn away from God. This may not be of considerable importance to someone who is profiting financially in the midst of all this ungodliness, however, to the Church and to God this is extremely important. It is also important to those who believe that Godliness in the pulpit is a requirement. This may not be a requirement in your field of work but the level of expectation for ministers is high according to scripture.
Your name calling and outright false characterizations is expected from someone who is not confident in their position. You are resorting to sticks and stones my friend. Very low level for a professional person as you claim to be.
If they owe me nothing and you weren’t called to post here, how did you come upon this blog and others like it? They must feel they owe somekind of explanation to try to offset these allegations. However, we will only except the truth. i’m sorry, but these lame excuses are not being accepted as truth. You might be accepting of it because you are so disconnected from this situation that it doesn’t really matter to you one way or the other.
For us, the truth matters because the church matters.
If Cook is so hurt by what is being said about him by several people, than he should speak to us directly about that. We’ll be happy to comfort him with a first hand perspective of our motives. He won’t have to assume anything anymore about why we are doing what we are doing.
Although I don’t agree with throwing Mrs. Cook under the bus for this situation, I can plainly understand why she would not publically admit an affair as the grounds for a divorce. In California alimony and child support are awarded in divorces. If BC’s primary source of income is AFC, then she will have plenty of reason to not want to see the church fail. Of course we don’t know this for sure at this point, but her silence may have everything to do with the custody arrangement of the daughter. Mrs. Cook loves her little girl and would do whatever it took to gain primary custody of her daughter to protect the child from experiencing some of the same kind of disappointments that she has experienced in her 12 year marriage. Again, this is only speculation but logical in its premise. As a woman I would chose my child’s best interest over my own dignity. We may learn more after the child turns 18.
Religious people hate logic and they hate people who can think for themselves.
Here…here..DB that is well put except for your lack of bible knowledge. Which noted… you are not claiming to have. I also must state that no body called me…that is so crazy.
You must understand that you SG… as you have admitted… are moving stricky by supposition mixed with a few angry slanders.
I don’t know about your time there… but through a former leader your husband cursed out VL and others and that you have always been a control freak and your sons told the leadership this also…NOW I say this as a point only. I know none of this to be true..but it is someones opinion..everyone they tell this story to now becomes effected by this opinion. Chase them down and explain your view and what you believe…I think you would be angry and mad…period because it seems that is your spirit. So all I am trying to do is make a point. We must be Christ like.
But for the record…All of my insight into what happened with VL and CL is the truth. I agree with DB this is my opinion based on facts accuring around me at the time. It did happen just like I said… this is not contrived. You however are guessing.
I know what I said is the truth. I don’t know everything… but what I said… I know.
DB…thanks for the insight on the Cs marriage…I had heard and experienced the same. I guess many would be to disappointed to hear the truth and would STILL believe what they won’t regardless. Because they have invested so much time and energy on there conspiracy theory.
This is why I believe they aren’t answering you. Because it is my understanding BC met with many for awhile that acted sincere… but afterward mutated and just kept talking. That they were deeply hurt by this and stopped meeting with mean and angry people. To use a little of DBs words.
Maybe you should do something that would suit your abilities and character also. I don’t think you are displaying much christian character either. Adultery and slander both listed together… will not inherit the kingdom.
Also SG you were very selective about what you answered and what you didn’t. Your tones are aggressive and I would guess knowing many like you…would not have anything to do if you didn’t do this…or it would just be with someone else. Maybe you should try fasting malice for a while and go to your next level.
I desire to see everyone restored and blessed. If God has to move them on one day or grows the ministry up again “what is that to you” to quote Jesus to Peter speaking of John. God’s field…God’s work…God’s people…whatever happend to faith.
I wanna hear from JK again…are you out there…whoever and where ever you are…you kind of stroked the flames here. What do you have to say?
If this is your bottom line, you are overstating it.
The numbers just don’t add up.
If indeed anyone at AFC felt that I was as you say a control freak, they never mentioned it before. People will say anything to offset the challenges being posed to them.
What you and DB are doing is trying to take the focus off of BC and the allegation and discredit my credibility to advance a deception. Nice try but it will not work.
From what you just posted, I am not the only person who has not accepted the excused as truth. And I won’t be the last.
Again, a simple DNA test and a lie detector test will reveal the truth. Unless of course that is what you are afraid of.
Are you saying that this innocent man will not voluntarily submit to these tests in order to clear his name? What will it take, a court order?
Really, I thought you guys had more ground game than that. Are you ready to tap out? If you are waiting on me to tap out, take the tests. If this clears up the descepancies, I’ll be the first to concede. Until then, you can call in all your buddies and engage all of your moves, but nothing will defeat the spirit of truth.
What would you like me to answer specifically?
Why do you guys hate woman so badly? You malign Mrs. Cook and then you try to abuse me in the same way. Wow, real touch guys aren’t you?
Hello guys…..would you like to get off the blog and meet in a neutral place to discuss these issues?
Let me know, we can meet at the Denny’s on El Camino Real and Vista Way. I’ll buy the coffee and pie. Just say when.
Seriously guys, are you trying to offset BC’s scandal with calling me a control freak when you guys are the ones that are mad because you can’t control this situation.
If that is the worst you can say about me and my family, you are in way over your heads.
My sons and my husband call me blessed. They don’t blame me for their failures like you all are doing with Mrs. Cook. The oldest trick in the book, “It’s the woman you gave me.” as you hide from God.
Weak, weak, weak.
Are you coming over your chair yet?
BTW, my husbands and sons are not failures, they are great men of God.
I think I believe in demons now. You are funky SG. You know everything don’t you.
I never threw TC under the bus. Nor did I say anything about her not loving her daughter…although I do know she does not have or won’t to have at this point… primary custody.
On another subject BC to my knowledge does have other forms of income, Stocks, property and his book is everywhere and doing well…I understand…from a outside source. His father is a very weathly business man.
You can’t disqualify me from my perspective just because I am not in the church. I hear what you are saying about the ministry but what I said IS what happened. You try to disqualify me because my perspective is not like yours. I know your type your letters are manipulaive and mean. Remember karma sweety.
Called to blog here..oh my God…you are delusional. Are you on meds…you need to take your daily dosage or something. How freaky.
Oh… you got me… stop please…ha ha ha . I’m not your bitch…don’t talk to me like that…I’m not a chiristian and I don’t believe you are either. Pharsee, scribes and scholars…that was a religious person…right…bible girl. You have rejected the weighter matters…like love and mercy.
Ouch…my brain hurts…I had to find a bible for that one…see maybe God is using this to convert me…ha ha…see I am called here.
Correction: BTW, my husband and my sons are not failures. They are all great men of God.
What? You’re not my what?? Wow, I was wondering how long it would take for the ghetto to come out. AFC is quite familiar with this arena.
I don’t have to disqualify you. You are doing that all by yourself. The more you talk the more we find out about your character.
Why are you so threatened by people who can think for themselves. Some of us have an education and can anaylize weighty matters without the assistance of someone speaking in their ear telling them what to say.
Okay, this is incredibly boring. Kind of like taking candy from a baby. Seriously, you are not qualified in this arena. Your weapons are dull and inadequate to take on anyone at this level.
Sweety??? I thought you said I was mean?
Years and years of jealousy coming out finally. Are you done yet?
Never my intent to distract the issues merly to add what my personal comments are. The ONLY reason I took a few shots is because your letters are so angry and bitter sounding. I like women and believe in equal rights. More than your bible does…so you should submit and let the men speak…haha. Just kidding SG. I can assure you my temper isn’t like yours…so I won’t be coming over my chair or meeting with you…why would I abuse myself…I can go to the zoo…whenever I desire…I’m cracking myself up. I never said your husband and sons were failures. Off of me b___h.
It is friday night I am out of here…I do have a life outside of hunting people down with my double barrel gospel gun. So you keep filling your soul with this crazy mind you have and you may end up with demons.
“His father is a wealthy business man.” Sounds like somebody missed their calling. Maybe the family business would be a better fit. Cook is definitely a good salesman.
No one is speaking with me or to me. What is that all about…you can’t take someone who has a brain and speaks for himself. ( oh yea you already used that for you, but when you did it was ok..)
Once again the real issues I addressed are avoided and your sacasm mask your answers. Your intimidation tactics are well devoleped, your words also reveal much about you that you think is covered.
Not ghetto my dear sweet mean man hater. Just doing what you do. You can dish it out but can’t seem to take it.
I to will drop from this blog for now. You are wasting space and time. Please get a life, get some help there is still hope. Hey are you coming out of your chair yet? I learned this from you…you are a good teacher…blind leading the blind. ( I like this bible thing )
No, your presumptions are angry and bitter.
I am neither of those things. However, you are the one who is unable to meet face to face and discuss these issues in a civilized manner. I am in complete control of my emotions, that is why I am not threatened by meeting in a public place. Only angry people blog only and not except a public, in person ,real life conversation.
More name calling. Wow, very disappointing.
Have a nice night. Be careful out there the roads are really bad because it is pouring buckets out there.
In My Name, I will cast out demons!! Be set free in Jesus’ Name.
What intimidation tactics? What are you afraid of? You sound a little paranoid. Are you okay?
I am completely and totally covered from the top of my head to the souls of my feet.
No one is avoiding your inquiries. You haven’t asked me anything. All you’ve done is name call and make silly statements revealing a considerable lack of understanding about what the real issues are.
I am not running away or hiding. Anytime you want to address your concerns, I will be happy to take that meeting.
I’m not being sarcastic. What, you don’t have a sense a humor? Angry people usually don’t. Lighten up, you’ll feel better about life and the issues that surround living it.
Don’t worry about the blind leading the blind. I’m not following you anywhere. You just don’t have the influence and level of leadership to keep someone like me under your control. I think you are finally getting that aren’t you. Is that why you think I’m mean? If I were you, I would concede too.
WOW…you guys should stop.
On another note… I called someone on staff in the office at FPC and they did say also that BC and RH have not communicated in years. They didn’t know of any schisms ( and they would if there was )They said RH had been pulling away from people for awhile and considered BC a threat to his lifestyle. Said BC wasen’t liberal enough for him. BC would have absolutly nothing to do with RHs playing.
As for PW and her ministry. BC did not have a close relationship with her…just had her preach and she was in and out.
Hey…just passing info. Be blessed!
No, not a man hater either. I love, adore, admire, respect, cherish, appreciate, and serve my husband daily with great devotion and loyalty. Not because I have to, but because I gladly submit to his loving, courageous, intelligent, affectionate, strong, and Godly character. He is a true man of God.
Woe to any one who would come between our union in God.
We both greet you and send abundant blessings to you and yours.
Not you following me…you leading others and them following you.
Come on…I wouldn’t let you work for me. I don’t think you would work to well with others. Concede…your so funny…once again your control preceeds you. Your last blogs were very revealing…thank you…by the way! Your trouble walking…a chaotic mess.
I feel very concerned and sorry for you. Good night sweety. The Cs should be glad you don’t go the church anymore. Do you even go to church?
You called FPC? Who did you speak to? I’d like to confirm this conversation if I may.
You expect us to believe that the staff at FPC would voluntarily say things that discredit RH and lift up BC?
Sorry, I will have to speak to that person and verify that information for myself.
You spoke to someone on staff at 11:00pm Texas time on a Friday night? Without a personal verification of this conversation, it is only a “comment” placed a blog to try to make a case to satisfy a personal agenda.
No substance.
AFC uses the same quote as WWII, “The perfect church for people who are not.” Are they just borrowing a phrase or plagerizing an idea? Just asking. Terri Cook traveled to WWIC on occassion to be mentored under Paula White in regards to outreach. There was more than just an in and out relationship. Upon her return from one of those trips, I asked Terri how things went. She told me generally that she learned a lot and that she had thought about me during the trip and wished I was with her. This was an actual conversation.
Wow, you guys will say anything. Complete and total witchcraft.
I thought you had a life outside the blog. I know you can’t help yourself. That is okay, I don’t hold it against you.
I don’t need to work for you. I have a very well paying job and the complete respect of everyone I work with. My boss and I ride our motorcycles together on our off time. That is how much we enjoy each other’s company. And no, we don’t even think about or talk about this situation.
Again, I’m not hiding anything so my blog would be revealing. You’re paranoia is really showing here.
Because I’m funny, I’m controlling? What??? Seriously, your logic or lack of is extremely hard to follow. Real logic and wisdom makes sence to even the most simple minded person.
I couldn’t work for you, I’m smarter than you are. You’d be afraid that I would take your business away from you??? Not true of course, but you seem so threatened by anyone who challenges you.
Every time you blog all you come back with is name calling and inuendo.
I’m holding out hope for an inteligent and meaningful dialogue.
Trouble walking???? I’ve never been in trouble. Outside of an occassional speeding ticket, I’m clean as a whistle.
Maybe you are calling me a whistle blower??
Calm down. I have a friend who has been on staff, then left then came back on staff. They left during the last exodus. I wasn’t trying to be a expert I was just trying to help. Wow your jumpy. No one is going to speak with you if you keep coming on like a hurricane. I am not lying. I called my friend.
AFC quote – Many people have borrowed this pharse that have incorprated the ideas. If you ever go… there are thousands of people from all over the world and I don’t think Paula talks persoanlly with anyone. But different from you and DB I do not desire to argue back and forth. I am not promoting a agenda. I think you might be and anyone who differs is blasted and be-railed.
Good night and be blessed!
Yes, I have a home church that I love dearly. I fully expect that it will prosper in our area and ignite an everlasting Holy Ghost revival that will stand in this territory for generations to come. It will stand up to the spirit of this territory because its leaders have the character needed to successfully overcome the enemies devices. Our leaders love their spouses and put their family’s above ministerial ambitions. Their marriages are not defiled by bitterness and lust stemming from neglect.
You’ll learn more in the days to come.
I didn’t say I talked to Paula personally. I said I spoke with Teri personally after she returned from a trip to WWIC. She spoke highly of Paula and respected her ministry and her mentorship at that time.
It is so funny how at one time RH and PW were honored at AFC. What did they turn their backs on AFC when the heat was turned up? Again, just asking a question.
Hurricane? I am calm. I still want to verify the conversation if you don’t mind.
I’m not arguing, just responding. Are you really that unskilled in debate. Why is everything characterized as a fight, or as angry with you guys.
You can’t judge if I’m angry or not. If you met with me in person and I displayed such behavior than your judgement would be correct. Here on this forum you are only speculating.
Actually, I’m cool as a cucumber. This doesn’t even ruffle my feathers.
Seriously, why do you take offense to every question? Aren’t you telling the truth?
First you claimed to have spoken to a staff member in order to validate your claim and now that the verocity of your claim is challenged, the “staff member” is not an official RH representative, but a personal friend.
Okay.
People who know they can’t manipulate the situation with this kind of nonsence will not personally speak to someone like me because they can’t avoid the issue and they know it.
Sorry Cook, but if you want to talk to me, you’ll have to be honest. We can move forward on that equal footing. I know it is easier for you to think that we hate you and that we are angry at you, but remember this only hurts your self esteem. Why? Because we know how we really feel. Hating you and being angry has nothing to do with our inquiries. You know that deep inside I know you do. Why don’t you just talk to us directly.
Like I said, a DNA and lie detector test will resolve the dispute.
Talking puppets are only antagonizing the situation.
We are still in the red people.
Barry, you know you can trust me. You’ve said it yourself to other people. You know that I am a woman of my word.
Take the test and if guilty confess publically and allow the people to make the choice for themselves instead of subjecting them to so much cunning and crafty manipulation. The spirit of God would not lead you down such a self destructive path. You’ve surrounded yourself with people too afraid of you to challenge the indescrepancies in this situation. I’m left with the feeling that you don’t really plan on being around much longer. When you do leave, I truly hope that you will be restored fully to the man God intended for you to be. We love you Barry.
Please I implore you in Christs’ stead confess your faults and be cleansed from all unrighteousness.
No one is blasting or berailing anyone. You guys have used profanity, vicious name calling, and out right misleading comments to promote your so called non agenda. You claim no agenda however you have, howbeit unsuccessfully, attempted to discredit me with futal attempts to offset my comments. If you don’t have an agenda, why have you spent considerable time in your efforts? Are you just bored? C’mon, can’t you see what you are being led into? I’m sorry this is happening to you. You shouldn’t let someone else drag you down with them. Please for your family’s sake, don’t bring strife into your home. This is not your battle. You’re being used.
It seems to me that you are mad or sad because you can’t get me to respond in anger or because you have failed in your attempt to deceive me about what I know from my own experience, my own observations and what I’ve been told by other former members of AFC.
I, however, am not mad at your comments, but I do disagree.
A personal friend who is a former staff member.
I don’t think BC would read all this..do you?
I’m not lying and I didn’t get on this for all this…I’m out! I thought I would just give my view and you give yours and we move on…so I am moving on now…I’m sure you think I am this or that…please hold that thought…thank you!
I’m not mad at anybody and wish you well on your journey.
Happy Holidays!
Now it is a former staff member. This is not how you characterized your comment initially. You attempted to make this conversation sound formal and authoritative. After just a little bitty bit of scrutiny, your whole story has changed. Little white lies are lies too. But I don’t hold it against you.
What I think is not in your relm of reasoning. Why do I make such a bold statement. Because the bigger picture for me can not be distored with ill informed opinions. You have no idea how much your comments validate so many of the things that are being discussed here. The considerable amount of effort alone put into these ridiculous rebutals, scream “WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE.” I’m sorry you didn’t understand that from the onset.
I am not going to apologize for who I am. I’m not as insecure as some may have thought. If you were under that impression, you were misled.
Thank you for your blessing in our journey. I accept it in Jesus’ Name.
Blessings to you and yours as well.
Seriously, I am not offended and I hope that you guys are not offended either. If you are, please forgive me.
Stop it SG it’s not like that…I simply saw the blog and told what I knew.
When I called them they informed me of there departure from the ministry in which I then learned there current status and then posted it.
I don’t know why I came back to this site. You are so negitive. You can’t be of God.. maybe you are the one decieved. Now that’s what I believe.
It never crossed MY mind if your insecure or not. Your right you are in another rhelm. woho
Ok…what ever considerable effort …no …just friday night blogging. That is why I say your right we are in different places.
This time for real.
Your welcome for the blessing and thank you for yours.
I’m sorry brother, I can’t ignore blatant misrepresentations.
You are coming back to hear the truth. You’ve come to the conclusion that there is more to this than what you thought and you are looking for answers. Until you ready to accept the fact that those answers are not necessarily agree with your agenda, your self imposed confusion will continue. Keep at it, you’ll get it soon enough.
If you look at your own comments toward me, they are all negative. It seems that your mission is to discredit me in order to defend gross misconduct in the House of God. I think it is your loyalties that are misplaced. We are to serve and uplift God not those whose fruit bears witness of divorce, emotional breakdowns, severed relationships and great scandal.
I am a child of God. Blood bought and sealed with the Holy Ghost. Nobody can seperate me from that fact.
Ollen and Diana I believe you are children of God too. Blessings to you both.
If the concerned people of North County want to meet, please email me at guinnfamily@cox.net
Obviously, Paula White did not choose to bear her cross up to Calvary. She chose instead to “choose the path of least resistance”. And then she has the unmitigated gall to use God as her “skapegoat” and excuse for divorce. Can someone please lead me to Scripture text (other that marital unfaithfulness) that would support reasoning for this divorce. As a Christian, I have never been a big fan of Paula White, in fact, I believe she is just a snake-oil salesman. But as a realist, I recognize the inpact and following that Paula White has on the banner of Christianity. I am certain grateful that Jesus said that “THE GATES OF HELL” would not prevail against the Church. But Paula White and her Faux Christianity can sure put some sizable “chinks in the armor”. I personally believe that Paula and Randy White should both step down from public ministry so as not to cause the church any more harm. Paula should have prayed as Jesus did, “Lord, if you are willing, allow this cup to pass from me, Nevertheless, not my will, but Yours be done”. Paula, like Jesus, may not have received the most expedient path, but the outcome would have paid much greater divedends. I am experiencing some “righteous indignation” in this situation right now and I attend to contact TBN and let them know my thoughts by their continuing to allow Paula White programming to continue on their network.
In His Service,
Rocky W. Hampton
anyone know where TC is post divorce?
SG, Diana here. My husband stumbled across this blog and was reading it to me today and we reached the point where you wrongly named me on November 30, 2007. I’m out of there girly and have been out for 2 years. Glad to hear Victor is doing well. Sure do miss you. I’m in Arizona now, married, and loving life. You go girl and keep fighting for the truth
To all of you defending AFC, all for which SG speaks is true, been there, did that, and now as far away from the wrath that will come down so as to not have my eyebrows singed from the fire.
Later
Diana, this is Christian. If you’re the same “Diana” that I worked with years ago at FGBMA then drop me a line! I’ve been wondering where you eventually wound up. 🙂 christiancarroll@live.com
Hi DB,
Diana, it sure was good to hear from you and it is even better knowing that you are NOT involved with the ongoing deception at AFC.
We hope to see you soon.
Blessings to you and yours,
SG
Wow… I’m currently a member of AFC…and I have been through all the mud slinging and gossip, rumors and opinions, trash talking, backstabbers, hurt, pain, and finally restoration.
I would think with all this energy that we could have found a cure for AIDS by now, or fed the country of Africa…with all this time and energy, it could have happened.
Hurt people. That’s what I see. And I would mention that hurt people hurt others when they haven’t reached a place of forgiveness and restoration.
Everyone has their own feelings, and those aren’t right or wrong. It is what it is. It just seems that with all the things going on in the world that really should have such greater importance, we connect and dwell on our feelings. The world is suffering and we are too consumed with what happened to us.
I know a lot of people who have left, and I’m not mad at anyone. Everyone has their own reasons and I can’t judge them. I am ok with people feeling like I am still in the fire and telling me I should leave. Really, it doesn’t bother me.
My choice for staying are just that, my own choice. We all made a choice to stay or leave and I defend no one except Jesus and his continued blessings. I feel bad for all the experiences that many of you have had, but I can gaurantee that at some point in life whether its church or the world, we will all experience pain. My thought is that we should look to God in all circumstances to give us healing.
Clearly if people are still on here trying to get DNA of illigitimate children, the healing process has not ended.
If this is a morality issue, then use it to your advantage and join a cause, do something about it. I don’t see how going over old wounds are going to get anyone anywhere. If you feel the church is going down hill, then start your own. The kingdom is ready.
I have been through more challenges, heartaches, and survivor of life in more ways than I care to share here. None of that includes AFC, what I can tell you is that once you have let the enemy in and given it a window of opportunity to torment you with anger, you have set yourself up. Forgiving someone and then writing from an emotion opposite of that is not forgiveness.
When I go to heaven and God asks me what did I do about the injustices I witnessed, I want to tell Him that I did something about it, I started an organization, I went to the streets and helped the poor, I joined the Red Cross, I donated my time. Sitting around writing is doing nothing but dwelling on things. Use your time and energy and minister to your kids, get out and evanglize the lost, find someone to bless, call someone who needs you, pray and intercede for the churches in the nation.
I just wonder if all this energy could be used to help more than one church, more than a handful of people.
All of “that” is nothing more than presumption and opinion and a poor justification for standing by and doing nothing about gross ministerial misconduct in the House of God. Your piety is self righteous and has little to do with anyone other than yourself. It helps no one yet it allows sin to remain in the pulpit. Oh, BTW, it isn’t just us lowly bloggers out there writing about the treachery in the church. Go to Charisma Magazine’s websit and read the article flat our denoucing the adultery and divorce that is running rampart in the church. And guess what? They are naming names.
Boy, you AFC folks need to lay off the kool-aide. Your Jim Jones look alike pastor is corrupting your soul.
We are not hurt. We are way passed hurt here RH. Your weak analysis portrays a picture of a victim. We are not victims and we are more than survivors. We are overcomers and we will see to it that this deception in the community is made as public as necessary to keep more families from being destroyed by this adulterous influence.
RH, I want to meet with you. Contact me at guinnfamily@cox.net. We have some things to confront face to face. Or can you even look me in the eye and say that nonsense? If not, than your words are nothing more than self absorbed idealogy built upon deception and down right idolatary. You are on the record for supporting this absolute fraud of a church and pastor. No one is being helped by this organization. More divorces, drug addiction, apostacy and much more has come as result of Cook’s so called anointing than any “good.” The heathen do more to help the poor and hungry than all of AFC’s exploits combined. AFC will always be known to those who really know the truth for tearing apart lives (the body) limb by limb. What good is a head without a body? All you’ve got is a monster blood thirsty to legitimize a life given to corruption and vile devastation.
Publically, I stand by my position without apology. And I’m willing to do it face to face if needed. Are you?
Or are you just playing “Switzerland?” No agenda, agenda, right?
http://www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones/
At least this guy has the guts to speak the truth. He is calling it like it is. This is real refreshment compared to the liberal, politically correct rhetoric of some sorely deceived followes who try to convince sane people that down is up and wrong is right. Man, what a bunch of hog wash!! I guess I can’t expect much from more from the SOCAL crowd. They’ve finally given over to the spirit of divination in the territory. They’ve joined ranks with the Self Realization and Rosicrusion crowd. Like they say, “If you can’t beat’em join’em.”
Talk about angry.
Your words are like venom, I could feel your spirit across my computer screen. You haven’t been to the church in a while so how would you know the way things are? Because you talk to a few wolves who think they know what is going on? I’ve had plenty of conversations on all sides of the spectrum. From people who have left, to those you accuse and those that I feel need some deliverance. None of this changes the fact that the church still needs to be brought to submission to the authority of God. And no matter what it takes I do not give up on the mandate that God has called for all churches. Pick a preacher, anyone in church leadership, and I almost guarantee they aren’t perfect and have made huge mistakes in ministry. Some confirmed and some flat out blatant lies.
I don’t have an agenda. It just seems so sad to me that there are people who write with this much anger and are doing nothing to help others. Unless you call slander helping. You come off as this nice good loving Christian but the moment someone calls you out you become vicious and rude and proclaim that people have been braiwashed and have some secret agenda.
I don’t live in your world and I am so thankful for that. Meeting you face to face would accomplish nothing. I’m all about confrontation but you are not the person and this is not your season. I would suggest giving your burden to someone who can handle it and start living your life free. AFC is no longer your church, we get it. Over and over again we get that you need DNA for proof and that we are all supporting a Pastor that you feel is in sin. We get it. You can call me whatever you want because I support the church, you don’t know me, my life or anything about it because I am not here slandering anyone, just expressing how we could be using our talent to do other things.
I practice what I preach. I do other things than sit here all day wondering how I can convince someone that I am right. Fighting to be right, isn’t getting you anywhere and you can claim you are holier than thou because we are all wrong and you are right but that just makes you appear to be overly religious.
You are a classic example of why I don’t like church folk, no forgiveness, no heart. I don’t need to know you, I just read what you write.
No what you feel coming off of your computer isn’t anger! It is absolute truth. Not post modernistic mummble jumble. You are free to compromise if it allows you to remain where you are at….maybe you enjoy knowing that your pastor doesn’t really have the place to correct you in your sin because of his own hypocrisy.
Mistakes? What? The man didn’t spill a glass of milk. He deliberately took another man’s wife and got her pregnant. Vince Limon was Cook’s right hand man. Cook married Vince and Carolyn and then he turned around and caused their divorce along with his own. You think that is a mistake? No, the mistake is that he continues to deny his duplicity of character and lies to everyone who confronts him about his adultery and illegitimate son that looks just like his daughter.
Sounds like you don’t like church folk who get into your business or into your pastor’s business.
This is not slander. Look the legal definition up for slander. The truth is not slander. My motiviation for publishing the truth is to keep the people of North County from being deceived by a wolfster. Any public person who makes his living off of public donations has an obligation to the public to be trustworthy. This man’s own wife divorced him because of his betrayal. Why the heck would anyone want to support someone financially who can throw his wife to the curb while he lies in bed with another’s man’s wife so he can fulfill the lust of his flesh? And as long as you are willingly and knowlingly supporting this kind of a person, keep your suggestions to yourself. Honestly, you can’t be trusted either.
One thing we do agree on is this. Your church and your pastor need to come under the authority of God. If you are suggesting that I need to come under his authority, I reject that notion completely. This man does not walk in authority because he is not submitted to authority. He completely violated the authority of God’s word when he came between a man and his wife. Your pastor has an ego that won’t quit. He must have believed that his position gave him the “authority” to take this woman to bed who was not his own wife. That my friend is a man under the submission and control of the devil….who BTW, God’s word says we have authority over him. So technically, I have authority over Cook’s devil to rebuke it in Jesus’ name. And I do.
Yeah, yeah, another one who hides behind a computer, but can’t control his/her emotions in public so they refuse a public meeting. You’re a coward. Face it. Just like your pastor.
RH, you have not called me out! What you call “calling someone out” is nothing more than you sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. You posted your comment, I made my rebuttal. Period. If you think that I am intimidated by your words on a blog, get real!
I’m the one who is doing the calling out and that challenge remains… to your pastor. You shouldn’t bite off more than you can chew and than whine about the fact that you are not making a bit of difference. I completely reject your comments as nothing more than the rhetoric of a very misled individual. This is often the case with people at AFC. They talk a good game on a blog, but when you see them in public, they run for the hills. They can’t even look you in the eye.
You don’t have the authority, influence, or stamina to call me out on this issue. So go back to saving the world while your corrupt pastor and church continues to loose it’s soul. You do have better things to do right?
I love it. Your right and I am wrong. I will live in a world of corruption, and I will go to hell because of my belief. Happy now? Besides, you post here to the Pastor about how he can trust you…right. I don’t think he does any more from what I understand. And excuse me but AFC is MY church, it is MY business. It isn’t your church any more. New people, new annointings, new deliverances, restoration, no more old spirits and overly religious people trying to run the church with their own agendas.
As far as everyone at AFC is concerned, no one cares what you post here. A lot of us see you as an angry person who can’t get over the past and learn the forgiveness to move forward. You can judge me all you want, I don’t answer to you. You can tell me the pastor is corrupt, I support an indecent organization…It’s ok. Tell me I sit back and do nothing about it…because you know everything right?
AFC will continue to restore and save lives, that is just the way it is. No one cares how involved you used to be because you aren’t any more. Take your overly righteous self and find another blog to blast AFC with. After talking to a few people who knew you, none of us really care.
I’m done here…have fun retaliating against my post to prove your so called justice. Like I said none of us care, there are more important things in life to think about than your anger. It’s all a little narcissistic don’t you think?
I love Ambassador Family Church and have loved it for the past five years.
Record it, document it, label me.
And just so there is no confusion about my post…I believe our Pastor is innocent. The law doesn’t say guilty until proven innocent. A bunch of hearsay and everyone seems to know “what happened…”
I’m more involved than you may think. From what has happened and what I know based on many parties involved, I will always Protect the House and believe in our Apostle. You can believe I’m just some newcomer, but let me tell you, I know a lot more than you think I do.
Have fun sharing your opinion. And I’ll continue supporting AFC…
I’d give you my name, but I don’t want my name spoken into the atmosphere with a deathly tongue and a righteous spirit.
I pray God imparts to you peace and restoration to your soul and that one day you can come to a place where you are overwelmed for the love of people and the church.
– RH
Also, one last item, VL has a history long before he joined AFC with another church that I know the pastors of. If you think he is innocent and the victim, surely you are mistaken and don’t know much about him.
All of what you say is lies,lies,lies! I reject it all in Jesus name. The challange to your so called pastor remains.
No AFC is not home my church but North County is my community. My family and I would never support any church whose pastor sleeps with a married parishoner and then tells the public that her husband deserved it. Vince Limon served as an associate pastor right up until the time that he found out that his blonde haired blue eyed son wasn’t his. (Vince and Carolyn are hispanic) Many people have testified about the way that Cook attacked Vince AFTER he left. Just like you did above. Cook is a coward. He is not an Apostle. He is not the set man of this territory. God gives his people the very best and Cook is not the best God can do. Cook may be your guru and the guru of the AFC occult, but he is no apostle.
Everybody at AFC including your pastor cares very much about what I am posting. That is why you guys keep coming back to defend this imposter. You all have something to hide and your desperately trying to cover YOURSELVES because God isn’t having anything to do with protecting this aweful deception. All the manipulating in the world will not keep the truth from being published. The people of North County are concerned about this and many have commented about their concerns.
What you know about this situation is enough to keep you held accountable. You admittedly support an adulterous man in the pulpit and you will answer to that some day.
AFC is not restoring or saving anybody. Stop with all the lies and deception. How many divorces? How many suicides? How many incarcerations? How many addictions? How many unwed pregnancies? How many adulterous relationships? How many member in blatant fornication? I can tell you how many, MANY, too many to count.
I don’t need you tell me a thing about Vince Limon. I knew him for years. No matter what you think about him personally, that does not justify your pastor’s adulterous relationship with Vince’s wife. Man, I can’t believe you people. You are sick!!!!
All your pastor has to do to prove his innocense is take a DNA test. We already know that Ricky is Cook’s son. Ricky looks exactly like him and Joy.
Yeah, AFC is full of new spirits alright. Anything holy, righteous, and anointed left a long time ago. All your left with now is doctrines of demons, witchcraft, sorcery, deception, and kaos.
Two Friday nights ago we witnessed for ourselves the response of AFCs youth toward the church. They were all outside leaning against the walls and sitting on the steps at 7:15pm looking like they wanted to be anywhere but there. Next time, I’m going to tell them that they are not crazy and that the hypocrisy that they see and hear is real and that they should seek fellowship and biblical teaching elsewhere. Matter of fact, after reading all the downright lies you’ve posted, I’m will tell them.
Oh, Cook trusts me alright. He knows that when I say I’m going to do something I do it. You can take that to the bank. He doesn’t like what I’m doing, but he trusts that I will continue on until his deception is exposed. Trust me, it will be and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it. He will continue to manipulate this situation in response to everything that I say in an attempt to counter it’s affect. His attempts will fail because of the lies he is trying to cover up. His foundation is going to crumble and the entire lot will come sliding down a top of this mega mess that he has made. The man is not able to withstand the truth. Heck, he can’t even live it.
I reject your witchcraft prayers in Jesus’ name. You have no authority over me to bless or curse.
I don’t recall asking you for your name. I don’t need it.
And you’re right I do have a righteous spirit.
Wow… You must be a stalker if you seem to know what that kid looks like now.
We don’t have a Friday night service.
Witchcraft…now that is funny, praise God. He still finds humor in this stuff.
Be blessed.
Normally you do not have a Friday night service, but two weeks ago you did. Don’t you know what goes on in your own church?
We live down the road from AFC and we drive right by it all the time on our way to church, to the beach, or the mall or whatever. The church is visible from Oceanside Blvd. and El Camino Real. We don’t have to be stalkers just because we are observant.
I’m already ready blessed and it has nothing to do with AFC or your blessings. We don’t need AFC to be blessed of God.
Awhile back one of AFC’s long time members who was involved in the worship team and children’s church was later found out to be a child molester. TG molested his own daughter numerous times from the time she was a very small child. TG ended up doing weekends at VDF for over a year. He was seperated from his family and not allowed to have any unsupervised contact with his daugher. TG was not the only one found guilty of incest while attending AFC. The spirit of incest seems to have found a home at AFC. Why?
Carolyn Limon is a child of God. Her spiritual father BC took her to bed with him and got her pregnant. He is guilty of spiritual incest yet you guys defend such a person. Why? Do you sleep around with your brothers and sisters in Christ? If he did it, you shouldn’t feel quilty about it, right?
God laughs alright, but not at those who stand for righteousness in a wicked and perverse generation. He laughs at those who mock Him, His Word, and the Holy Spirit. Not because He is entertained, but because He is not mocked.
Keep saying wow. I know you’re amazed and you will continue to be amazed at what is coming next.
More gossip… You’re a waste of time.
Have fun convincing everyone we have no blessing. My testimony is much too long to write here, you may think you are the only one blessed in Oceanside. If you only knew the blessings I continue to receive from being at AFC. Yeah we are a cursed church…and those of us receiving the blessings of God are fake.
No worries, I’m not posting any more.
Only God can judge me. I know I know, you seem to be very repetitive in your statements about how I am in sorcery, witchcraft, and I will be judged for supporting such a corrupt church. Save the speech.
Again, only God can judge me.
No, I’m not a waste of time, but it was a waste of your time if you ever thought you would have a bit of influence OVER me. Admit it, that is what you’re really upset about.
The extent of the deception in the ongoing cover up at AFC is most definitely summed up in one word….witchcraft. The deception is what is repetitive. As long as it is ongoing, this challenge will remain.
“Yeah we are a cursed church…and those of us receiving the blessings of God are fake.” You said it, not me. The only thing I will add is, “What blessing?”
Are you blessed to know that families are split up, that children are split between to households, that many teen agers are using drugs and engaging in sexual activity on church property? Are you blessed to know that marriages that were sanctioned by God are destroyed because of gross and perverse ministerial misconduct by AFC leaders? Are you blessed to know that people who gave their lives to the work at AFC are now backslid? Are you blessed to know that your wolfster pastor became a stumbling block to an entire generation of AFC youth? Are you blessed to know that God is not mocked and whatsoever a man soweth that he shall also reap? On that point, my answer is yes.
Until your pastor publically admits what he has been lying all this time, we will continue to hold his feet to the fire. The truth be known, and it is, your pastor’s pseudo ministry to this community is over.
“Again, only God can judge me” You say that like you don’t believe he will. Most criminals don’t believe they’ll ever get caught and if they do get caught, they don’t believe they should have to suffer the consequences for their behavior; but in the end they do.
You have managed to judge me, compare me to a criminal and tell me I have no fear of God.
And you call yourself a woman of God.
…Above all things love one another…
You don’t even know me.
What does any of that have to do with being or not being a woman of God. I’m sorry if you got your feelings hurt, but I think I remember telling you something about not biting off more than you can chew. This isn’t about you so quick crying and stop taking everything so personal. Nice try playing the victim.
Oh, BTW, you don’t have to actually commit a crime to possess criminal mindsets. When people don’t admit wrong doing and then act surprised about the consequences, this usually is an indicator of a criminal mindset at play. Another is when a person thinks that everything is about them. Some call it narsacistic and it is.
Have a great weekend. I know I’m going to.
Hey, if you want to come over for dinner, give us a shout. guinnfamily@cox.net
Hey, RH, do you need a Strongs concordance to quote your scripture properly? Here let me help you out.
Jn 15:17, “These things I command you that ye love one another.”
Rev. 2:2-7,
“I know all the things you do. I’ve seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don’t tolerate evil people. You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles, but are not. You have discovered that they are liars. You have patiently suffered for me without quitting. But I have this complaint against you. You don’t love me or each other as you did at first! Look how far you have fallen from your first love! Turn back to me again and work as you did at first. If you don’t, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches. But there is this about you that is good; you hate the deeds of the imortal Nicolaitans, just as I do. Anyone who is willing to hear should listen to the Spirit and understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches. Everyone who is victorious will eat from the tree of life in the paradise of God.”
In case you were not aware, the Nicolaitans were known for their sexualy promiscuity. The gnostic doctrine taught that the human body was evil therefore it did not matter what a person did with it. God clearly expects us to “hate” this kind of behavior. It should not be tolerated in the church. People who are guilty of sexual immorality are to repent. When they do not, the church has no obligation to continue to submit to this person’s influence. We have love for the people, but we do not tolerate blatant sin in the house of God.
This is not about who we are against. This is about what we stand for….WE ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE CHURCH AND ALL THAT IT IS MEANT TO BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
WE ARE PASSIONATELY OPPOSED TO THOSE WHO ABUSE THE CHURCH AND LEAD GOD’S PEOPLE ASTRAY.
THIS PURSUIT WILL NEVER DIE!!
Here is a thought, so what would you do if there was a DNA test and you found out you were wrong?
If you are going to be passionate about something, at lease be humble enough to accept the fact that there could be another side to everything. Then what?
And by the way, I take none of this personal. I’ve been to hell and back in a lifetime of circumstances, this to me doesn’t even faze me regardless of how you interpret what I write.
Also, I’m well aware of a criminal mindset too dear, I have had plenty of experience in dealing with people and their psychological disorders.
Seriously, what if you are wrong, what would you do? You have all these demands of what the Pastor should do, i.e., humble himself, say the truth, step down from the pulipt…ok, well, what would you do if you found out what you heard was wrong? Don’t be so full of yourself that you couldn’t admit for a chance that you could be wrong. That would just speak volumes.
RH, you should be posing that question to yourself. You are the one in doubt not me. Lets not put the cart before the horse. Let Cook take the DNA first then we’ll go from there. Remember, I’m not the one who is accused of gross ministerial misconduct. If it were me, I would admit the truth and allow the chips to fall where they may. People should have the right to choose to follow someone in this kind of situation. When the guilty manipulate the public into submission, that is fraud and a strong indicator of criminal mindsets at play again.
Please don’t call me dear. I’m not your dear. Stop thinking so highly of yourself to conclude that you are able to speak to me in terms of endearment or are you just being a smart eleck? Either way, you can address me by my name only.
IF, and that is a big IF, I am wrong than I am wrong, but this isn’t about me. In my opinion, Cook is guilty and the proof is Ricky and a DNA test will conclude without a shadow of a doubt the truth. And yes, I’m very passionate about the truth…are you???
If you are trying to analyze me, you are doing a poor job. Remember, you can find out for youself what I am about in a public setting if you are not to scared. Anyway, Cook can tell you, he knows me well and he knows exactly my motivations. He doesn’t doubt my verocity or my resolve.
RH, ask yourself this question…”What if I’m (meaning me not you) right?” and “What if you are wrong?”
I know how to serve God and not man. My relationship with Jesus Christ will never stumble because of the failures of others. Can you say the same thing?
SG & RH – Can you two please give it a rest? This has degenerated into an argument that seems to have no end. Thank you!
No problem Scott. I’ve offered a one on one meeting to avoid clogging the blog and the invite is still open. I’d rather speak in person anyway. We’re not arguing, but we are having an important conversation that needs to take place. RH, if you want to continue, please email me at guinnfamily@cox.net.
Thanks Scott.
Scott I gotta say, this has been an eye opening experience, you may not feel any resolve, but I have learned a tremendous amount about people, so for that “Thanks.”
job was just and perfect man, yet God subjected him to a great test that involved lost of all his kid and possessions.
this is just a divorce, not loss of life yet.
pls let puala and randy be, they have God to ans to.
don’t judge them because you are capable of doing was if you are in their shoes.
People who continue to be fake ass Christians will never get anywhere in life. Come on AFC be real and tell the truth already! I attended for awhile and left for many reasons. One was these people put a man on a pedestal and practically worshiped him! On top of that pushed everything under the rug and said “if you don’t attend afc anymore your jacked up.” Wow can we say CULT. AS for Carolyn L. she sat there and told me how to dress and how to conduct myself as a lady and then slept with the Pastor. What an example of……can we say “slut”
People you got to realize the true so you can see the false!! All of these people are false teachers, well without water, clouds without rain, the 2/3 of Rev 8. DONT BE FOOLED!!
Just look for the suffering in a professing Christian’s life, if it is not there for the sake of Christ then put them on notice. Jesus said MANY, not FEW but many will say unto me… have I not not done this in your name and that in your name …..and you know the rest..
He says I never knew you DEPART TO THE LEFT.
Watch pray, stay close to the written word DON’T BE DECEIVED by these charlatens.
http://www.julianplumbing.biz
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/04/tampas-without-walls-church-sale/?news-breaking
Hmmm, I bet I know a church in Oceanside, California for sale…I think I’ll call my agent.
North County Christians Beware:
AFC’s media department has been busy flooding the internet with snippets of information via YouTube in an attempt to offset the negative publicity AFC and Barry Cook are receiving because of the misconduct. This is an obvious attempt to bury the many comments made by numerous people regarding their knowledge of the affair; subsequent divorces; and exodus of key leaders and parishoners….a PR move no doubt.
In February a comment was posted to Craigs List New and Views warning the public to not attend AFC. Afterward a sudden PR blitz hit the internet trying to make Barry Cook seem like a man of God.
To the public, I strongly caution you to not be seduced by this organizations craftiness in using video images to try to portray a man to be something he is not. This is nothing more than smoke and mirros…a mere illusion. Please be careful!!
We were notified today that Ambassador Family Church is in foreclosure. Please pray in agreement for us as we believe God to send a man and/or woman of God to purchase this property for the continued advancement of God’s Kingdom in Oceanside, California. This effort has been postponed long enough due to Barry Cook’s misconduct.
It is time that the people of God in this territory unite in prayer so that these Kingdom assets are not lost to the kingdoms of this world. In Jesus’ Name.
It really grieves me to see such little regard from you for the people who attend AFC. They don’t see things the way you do and I guess that that makes them less than the body of Christ in your eyes? In the turmoil of all that’s going on have you thought of them at all? You bring accusation against many but you show no responsibility to communicate love and concern for those who we call the body of Christ. You make yourself an authority over those who God sets in place and require that they prove their innocense to you?
Well what have you done to make a difference other than accuse others? I’ve stayed up late to read all of your repeated accusations and frankly I’m really tired about now. I am minister of about 30 years experience and oversee about 12 churches and the Pastors that lead them. It never ceases to amaze me how people can accuse others and make them guilty by association.
Recently I caught a secretary stealing thousands of dollars from the church. I got a taped confession and a signed statement that she had done so. I made an agreement with her for her to pay back the ten’s of thousands of dollars she had stolen in very clever ways for her to pay it back so that she wouldn’t have to go to prison. I had her little ones in mind. Just months later she tells others in the next church she goes to that she had to leave the last church because the Pastor was stealing money and they were going to blame her so she had to leave. She was calling members and telling them lies so that they would leave the church. People assumed that the Pastor was guilty because people were (after all) leaving the church.
Now that I am the person in authority over AFC maybe you would like to prove these allogations? I’m not here for money and I have a network that is paying for me to serve the Lord in this capacity. AFC and BC have nothing I need, I’m here by divine appointment to serve the wonderful people of AFC. If you have some valid accusations then now is the time for you to make them officially.
The building is not the Church and it’s high time that you recognized that. Your continued accusations now have a impartial listner. I do want to remind you that people are innocent until proven guilty and if you cannot prove what you are saying is true then you must at least meet your own standards of integrity and quit making unproven accusations. It is my desire to bring reconciliation not to take sides. I believe in AFC and I come at my own expense to serve them in what ever way possible so that they might be reconciled to their heavenly mandate with or with out BC. And unlike many others I’m willing to say who I am. In Him, Ron Satrape
Hi Ron,
Barry Cook knows exactly who I am. The proof of these accusations is about to start elementary school. Check it out.
If you are so determined to be an impartial listener, email me directly. I will be happy to meet with you to discuss what we know and what others know and the time line of events that have taken place since the misconduct became public.
Your accusations against me are only that and I do not either take offense or take them as conviction. I’m just going to ignore them.
Maybe you would like to discuss all the people who have contacted me about the pain in their lives that they directly contribute to their past association with Cook. Where is your compassion for the families that are going through hell?
That is too bad about your secretary, but that has nothing to do with me or this situation. More smoke and mirrors if you ask me.
You are too arrogant or biased to understand what I believe about the Church. Your assumptions are just that…..assumptions.
If you want to get to the bottom of it call me 760.622.9976.
Scott has asked us to not clog this blog with back and forth tick for tat. I will honor his request. If you really want to know the truth, you will do your due diligence. If not, believe what you want to believe. And believe me, your assumption do not deter me in the least.
Once again, my email is guinnfamily@cox.net
Ron, I’m sorry, but I don’t recognize your authority. You can’t just name it and claim it there big bro.
But I’m glad to know who is laboring amoung us in my North County Community. I’ll check your background out thoroughly.
Have an awesome day serving an awesome God.
This will be the last time I respond to you on this site. I have been following these accusations and I have checked out these time lines. What I’m looking for is solid evidence, not what you know but solid evidence.
If any one is jumping to conclusions they are slanderous and are subject to liability for their carelessness. If these alogations are true then the ones who are guilty are also liable and should be dealt with accordingly.
What accusations are you referring to that I have brought against you? Is asking questions the basis for you alogations? You still haven’t answered my questions. You are under no obligation to do so other than you taking responsibility for the far fetching accusations that you have been making. I’m not looking for you to recognize my authority, I’m looking for you to take responsibility for the accusations you have been making.
Your accusation of my arrogance is a bit premature seeing that you haven’t “checked out my back ground thoroughly”.
Now your hiding behind Scott? What’s the matter are you afraid of litigation from those who can afford it?
I’m not your Bro. and I never asked you to recognize my authority. I only offered an honest venue for legitimate and founded abuse to be heard and dealt with. Have you become so synical and critical that you don’t even recognize a sincere opportunity to bring reconciliation?
I have read your postings on other websites and blogs and am very thorough and comprehensive in my approach to your communications. If the accusations you make are true then you distract from the validity of your claims by your critical and synical attitude. There is a real case here for legal action. Either put up or shut up. It’s not my responsibility to contact you it’s your responsibility to contact me at AFC. You have had enough time to make your acusations let’s see how well you can prove them instead of making your victims prove themselves. Your host on this site needs to quit hiding behind you and you behind him and do what is right for a change. It’s not a matter of conjecture or recognition on your part the fact is I am the person in authority over AFC and those in leadership. AFC will forward your communications to me. Sincerely in Him Ron Satrape
Like I’ve said a hundered times . I’ve contacted AFC directly and asked for a private meeting numerous times which were dismissed out of hand. We attempted to resolve this privately before going public. Therefore, it is your responsibility to contact me and I have agreed to meet with any AFC leader at anytime.
No one has been hiding or avoiding this communication but Cook.
Again I can be reached at 760.622.9976. We can set up a meeting anytime. This offer has been made in the past and the invite remains open. Please contact me at your earliest convenience and we can work out the details.
The number at AFC 760.639.4000 is no longer a valid AFC phone number. We called 411 and asked for the listing and none was available for Ambassador Family Church in Oceanside, CA. We went even further and pulled up the web site and found this number 760.722.7000. We contacted 411 again and asked them to do a cross reference on the 722.7000 number. They found no match and advised that the number is either a cell phone number or a unlisted number. We left a voice message to have Satrape contact us and we also sent an email to ronald@ambassadorfamily.com and carlton@ambassadorfamily.com requesting a return call/email from Satrape.
Satrape did not leave a number or email address for us to contact him directly, yet he demands that we speak to him about our concerns and yet the contact information for AFC is not easily obtained and/or certain of it’s connection to AFC.
We will meet with any AFC leaders face to face to discuss these matters. Please respond to our recent request of 3/15/08.
To date Satrape is not verified as having any connection to AFC. Until he responds to our messages and emails, we can not verify his claim of being an overseeing authority at AFC. No one that we have spoken to has ever heard of Satrape and is not sure of his involvment with AFC if any.
We do question why Cook is not answering to these concern personally but instead chooses to have someone else take care of his responsibility. Ron Satrape has never been our pastor and we do not feel that he should be putting himself between us and Cook. Barry Cook was at one time pastor to all of us. Why would he send a complete stranger to try to intimidate the people who once served faithfully and gave generously to support Cook’s leadership at AFC? Strange behavior for an innocent man.
Just how gullible do these so called men/women of God think we are!!! Anyway, they are right to think so i guess…after all they talk us into making them multimillionaires!!! Its such a pity!
I’m not sure they will admit that they think we are gullible. It is more convenient for them to put the focus off of the real issues and start attacking the whistleblowers. They accuse us of being angry, wounded, rebellious and dispectful of authority, impertinent, and on and on. The whole time they are completely ignoring the blatant immorality and cover up right in front of them. Nice job guys trying to make this issue about me and my credibility and integrity.
The bible clearly says, that he who hides his sin will not prosper.
There is no scriptural basis to continue this cover up. So the question is, “Why the cover up?” Well, I’m sure the majority of the public can figure that one out for themselves.
Time will tell the truth if nobody else will.
Hi AFC family.
Hal and I greet you in brotherly love and affection.
I want to thank all of you who have called with your encouraging words. I also want to thank those who’ve been bold enough to send us their emails telling their story. We invite everyone to email us at guinnfamily@cox.net. We know that some of the family are at different places of recovery from the impact of this ordeal. Please know that even if you are feeling somewhat angry, ashamed, hurt, it doesn’t matter. There is no shame in you coming forward and telling your story.
We visited the church last night to witness for ourselves the current situation. All I will say right now is that what is left of this once vital ministry is truly heart braking. If only Cook would have done the right thing a long long time ago. I wonder where we would all be right now. My heart goes out to the church. Truly and Sincerely.
We can be reached at 760.622.9976. Call anytime.
Blessings!
Today I received a phone call from a currentl member of AFC who told me that she did not know that the church is in foreclosure. No announcement was made to the congregation regarding the financial state of the church specifically.
She is very concerned about this because she feels that other people in the church are also in the dark about this information. She also did not know that Life Christian Church (760-480-6233) has placed a bid on the church. (We received an email from a current member of Life Christian Church who stated that they are in escrow for the AFC property and that they should be moving in the AFC building in a month or so.)
The current congregation at AFC knows nothing about this possibility. I’ve left a voice message for Pastor Zane Johnson at LCC to verify the content of the email received from one of her members. Please feel free to contact her directly with your questions/concersns. Her husband is Stephen Johnson. They co-pastor this North County Church.
In an earlier comment on this blog I was accused of not having any concern for the people at AFC. Now I find out that the leaders of AFC have not notified the members of the foreclusure and the possibility of the pending sale of the church. Do these leaders believe that the information that they are withholding is somehow in the best interest of the people, who by the way are throwing their money into a bag of holes? How careless and cruel is that?
This member thanked me for my bravery in telling the truth about this situation. She said that she believes that she and the others have a right to know what is going on so that they can make the decision themselves about what they want to do about it.
Our phone called ended after over 45 minutes of discussion with blessings a mutual respect. The woman considered me to be credible and is going to make up her own mind on what to do next. She also assured me that this revelation would not cause her to backslide because she has a solid relationship with Jesus Christ. She asked me to keep in touch with her and spoke a blessing over me and my family.
AFC family. Please keep calling and sending your emails. This information is vital if we are going to salvage our church. Please don’t be afraid of the threat of a lawsuit. I know we’ve all been through so much and we don’t deserve to be treated with contempt. This is our chance to right this wrong. Please tell us your story. We’re here for you to help you and your family get through this time. We are simply your friend ready to assist you in anway that we can. Nothing else. I promise.
We are THE CHURCH and the gates of hell will not prevail against us….
I am a Christian and an ordained minister. 3 or 4 years ago I found out my husband (who has not accepted Jesus yet) had been having an affair with another woman for 3 years. The Lord showed me how to do a warfare prayer to break off soul ties from this woman. My husband 8 months later asked me to give him another chance that the affiare was over, so I did and we are still married today and doing well.
We need to learn to fight for our marriages and for our children. We need to fight in the name of the Lord and take back what the devil has stolen. Amen! Try it Paula, it works!
Whether the allegations described above are true or not, several former AFC members believe them to be true and have been hurt deeply by them. I first learned about these roomers about two years ago and have been deeply troubled by them. Many former AFC members, including myself have “walked away from God”, at least to some degree. Some are outraged to the point of hate for BC and AFC.
I am not by any means a biblical scholar, but if I understand correctly, the scriptures should help us work through this issue. I know that several of you have a far better understanding of the scriptures than I do and I would be grateful if you could help us all walk through this issue with the guidance of prayer and God’s Word.
1. As I understand, all sin is equal, no greater or lesser in value in God’s judgment. Is it fair to say that most Christian pastors of most congregations in the U.S. have committed sin (knowingly wrong deeds, however great or small, as perceived by our flawed judgment) during the past two years. Does not the bible clearly say that we should confess our sin to one another. Must a pastor confess his sin to an entire congregation to confess to “one another”? Please provide scripture and contextual reference in your interpretation.
2. As I understand, Jesus provides all of the forgiveness that BC should require in the event that he commits a sin. Did not Jesus forgive BC 2008 years ago on the cross, assuming that BC repents after he sins and continues to serve God? Since we do not know the heart of BC, are we able to determine whether or not he repented to God and confessed his sins to his brothers and sisters (this is assuming the worst – that the described allegations are true)? As I understand, we all fall short of the glory of God… we all make mistakes… Are not the sins that seem so inherently small by our standards lesser than the sin of adultery? Please advise.
3. As I understand, if we believe that our brother is living in sin (or we have an issue with him) we should bring that issue directly to him and if it can not be resolved through him, the issue should be brought to the elders of the church. As I understand, SG attempted to meet with BC to discuss the issue, but BC refused the meeting. Is this correct? Scripturally, it appears that the pastor should agree to meet with the person with the issue. Is this correct? Should the issue be discussed with the elders, being at a lower position of authority than the pastor? Scripturally, what is the next step toward resolution if the pastor refuses to discuss the issue directly with SG?
Thanks for the input.
New Believer
To clarify the first paragraph above, I do not blame AFC or BC for my “walking away from God” for a season or at any time in my life. God has given me His Son and His Word, which are both sufficient sources for my salvation and walk with Christ. I do not blame BC for me and my friends not being as “on fire for Jesus” today as we were while attending AFC. AFC placed a lot of pressure on me to be a good Christian. The church that I am attending currently does not do that. We mostly focus on reading and studying the Word of God. I hope that some day I can find a congregation of believers that is as on fire for Jesus Christ as AFC was. However, I do struggle with confusion that these rumors have caused me and many of my friends. I would like to know the truth about these issues, but I believe that my reasons are mostly carnal.
Some former AFC members, including myself, are still confessing believers and attending church. Others are jaded and not attending any church. I am certain that there is no such thing as a perfect church in the U.S… we have far to many distractions from the enemy in our country – money, sex, TV, work, “the Jones'”, advertising, looking pretty, false religion, violence, hate, racism, selfishness, getting ahead, etc. In my opinion, believers in less fortunate countries (which have less of these distractions) may be able to focus more of their attention on God. I believe that the passion of AFC helps dispel some of these distractions and allows the believer to focus more on things of God. No other pastor that I have experienced to date urges the believer to get in a relationship with God as much as BC did, although to be fair, I have not visited as many congregations as some of you have.
The point is that I do not think that it is fair to blame AFC or BC for our investment in God. We did not pay tithes and offerings to BC, but to God. We did not go to Super Sabado for BC, but for God. We were not on fire for Christ because of BC, bus because of what JC did for us. BC is a man with flaws like all of us. We can argue doctrine until we’re blue in the face, but the reality is that we are all created in the image of God and are living in a country that is digressively turning away from God and Christ-likeness. We should, however, stand up for what is just, if it can be justified through clear doctrine. Would you help clarify this doctrine for me? Is it not possible that BC has already been forgiven for any sins that he has committed while serving as pastor of AFC? Is it not possible that he made a mistake and has repented? If it is possible that BC is in the will of God TODAY, then who are we to cause him to stumble by bringing up alleged wrongs of his past, TODAY, which are meant to expose him unjustifiably? If exposing BC is justifiable, please break down the scriptures that explain what actions we should be taking to address the issue. If you are able to do so, I agree to support your cause if the scriptures are clearly aligned with your proposed actions.
If any of the above questions are meant for me directly, please utilize the email address and/or phone number published above.
The purpose for this forum for me is accomplished.
WE are the CHURCH and the gates of hell will not prevail against US.
I leave you with this. Christianity is not just “talking” about living right for God. Believe it or not, WE are able to actually DO IT.
I’ve known a particular pastor whose wife gave me a pocket bible in 1987. I still carry that bible with me where ever I go. I’ve preached the gospel with it everywhere. This same pastor and his wife have been married and in ministry for over 25 years. I’m sure in that time they’ve made judgement call errors and/or administrative errors, however, they have managed to have a successful marriage and ministry without the scandal of adultery, pregnancy outside of marriage, divorce, foreclosure and the like. They have demonstrated by their actions what they taught us about faithfulness and devotion to God. Even after their middle daughter was tragically killed in a plane crash while coming home from preaching at a youth event, this couple never turned to the world for comfort or vengeance against God’s word. They have continued building some of the most successful Christian/church family’s in the Gulf Coast region. Every time I open up that Bible and read its pages, I am encouraged. I know that I can and will be successful in marriage and in service unto the Lord. I am not confused about what is right and what is wrong. My bible explains it all clearly. I trust it. I trust God. Neither has ever let me down.
I firmly believe that the example that God placed in my life over two decades ago can be witnessed in North County.
Tender salutations in Jesus’ Matchless Name.
Glad to hear that the issue has been resolved.
If you want to talk call me 760.622.9976.
I just wanted to say that this page is not meant for any excuses… BC has done enough of that for everyone. I was a member of the AFC church. I left two years ago because of the all this non sense… It amazes me that when he preaches he was a different person…I remember volunteering for the daycare inside the church. BC would always walk in and spend time with little Ricky before he goes to preach. He would talk to him like a Father and son… And as he walks away, little Ricky calls him “Papa”… I didnt quite get that picture…..
The only way we can shut this whole conversation down is for BC to take that DNA test… That’s it… but obviously he is hiding something…. So of you are asking for proofs, but the only proof you need to get is that DNA test…. BC- you need to speak the truth, it will set you free… It’s the only way….
Anyway, I went back to visit last week and the church was so empty… Six rows from the back were empty… The entire balcony area was empty… It was just so sad…
SG- I am with you 100% and so as many other people that I know… So many people are hurt by what happened and still BC is not giving up… His Pride is just eating him up…. Lord Have Mercy….
Salt & Light
In addition to my previous note. The daycare issue happened at the beginning of last year… I only volunteered to stay in the daycare because I had my daughter running around in there… I didnt feel comfortable leaving my child in the care of two little girls around the ages of 10-15…. They were so young… I saw BC come in and just watch baby Ricky and then talk to him like Father and Son would… And as he walks away, little Ricky says “papa”…. I mean, he didnt look at any other kid but little Ricky… I had that gutt mother feeling that they had some sort of connection… It’s too obvious… Besides, that little boy looks just like him…
Salt & Light
Good morning Salt and Light.
My heartfelt prayers and sympathies go out to you and the many others who have had to experience this kind of “evil” in the house of God. I remember leaving AFC for the last time. I felt so completely violated and grieved in my spirit. I wanted to run from what I’d seen and heard. Thankfully, I knew I could run to the father and he would perserve my innocence in Him; and He did. Unfortunately, this is not the case with many. They ran and did the very thing they were repulsed by. The betrayal and the confusion was too much for some to deal with. For all who are struggling with sin as a result of the bondage and captivity of this situation, I pray boldly now and ask God in Jesus’ matchless name to set you free……….Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. Be free in Jesus’ Name.
If you need personal prayer, please call 760.622.9976. We will agree together for all the will of God to be accomplished. You will live and not die and do great exploits in His name.
For former AFC leaders and charter members.
It was brought to my attention recently that many of you are meeting together for the purpose of possibly filing a law suit. I must advise each and every one of you to discontinue this effort. I know many of you feel cheated out of years of giving into the work at AFC and now that you are admitting what was right in front of you all along, you are thinking about doing this evil. You cannot allow your pride to continue to lead you in ways that will find you resisting the Kingdom of God. I strongly encourage all of you to fall on your face and repent for the years of involvement in the cover up at AFC. Many of you chose to ignore the problem and now that you realize that you have blood on your hands you want to go after the money you believe is in the bank. The Lord rebuke you in Jesus name. Your motives are being revealed to the wise if you take this action. Let me ask you this question. Were you about the money all this time? Are you trying to recoup your losses now that you finally realize that you are not going to get wealthy in ministry? What was your real expecation for being in North County in the first place? Sure some of you may have been completely duped, but many of you were not. You allowed AFC to be in the state that it is in now. You need to repent and ask God to place you UNDER the ministry and supervision of a man and/or woman of God who can restore you properly into the Lord’s service. If you allow your pride to move you ahead with a law suit you will most certainly find yourself fighting against God. Remember, God gives grace to the humble, but He will resist the proud. Just repent and move on. You do not have the right to do this thing. Mark my words. You’ve been lovingly warned. I hope you can humble yourself and receive the word of the Lord.
If questions, please call 760.622.9976.
First, mI am not a fan of their brand of Christianity. I agree and disagree with your article though. If they both wanted and sought the divorce then your assessment is 100% correct. Then they are both 100% in sin and should step down from their posts and repent.
But, Randy said, in an interview, that he took all the responsibility and that it was 100% his decission. Today, if one partner wants a divorce then you can’t stop them. So, if Randy sought the divorce, then Paula would have no control and it would be a test.
Also, this kind of post is not Biblical, unless you have approached them privately first and they refused to hear you.
Lacey
It sadens me so much to see that so many former AFC members are so bitter over what is no longer there business. It is your personal opinion and conviction to leave the church for your own reasons. But your continuous slander and spreading of unproven imformation on proves that you are harboring bitterness and unforgiveness. It is the Lords job and only His to judge situations that us as men do not understand. Who are any of us to cast the first stone, we are not free of sin as Jesus was, so what makes any of us so much better than another.
Lets say for one second that all the alligations are 100% true, how do any of us know that he has not saught God for forgiveness and all the parties involved? No one but God, Barry and those parties directly involved know for sure. So again I ask, who are you to judge him or anyone else? Have you not also fallen short of the Glory of God, but the God I serve is a God of mercy and grace. So as Christians, shouldn’t we be striving to be Christ like?
I might not always agree with the things that are done at AFC or decisions that are made by church leadership, but I trust my God enough, that He would tell me if it was time for me to leave. So come stroms, rain or shine, pursecution or peace, I am staying where God has me until He says to move. Believe me from experiance I know what its like to not be in Gods timing, and because of that I am going to listen only to Gods voice in this situation.
As long as there is people at AFC who are hungry for Gods presence and His will to be done, God will always supply. That is why I serve at AFC for God alone, and the advancement of His kingdom. I don’t go to AFC and serve for Barry, or any other church leaders, but for God alone.
S.K.
http://nctimes.com/articles/2008/04/29/news/coastal/oceanside/nct24d2152364bf7fe9882574390066f.txt
And???
All that does is show that they can no longer afford the loan payments. Makes sense if there’s a decline in membership. I’m sure they’ll find another location to continue to follow Christ and rebuild. God is a just God and will be sure to reward those who diligently seek Him!!
come on mo. that is a fact he they could not afford the church because of all the destruction that was done to many families, causing them to leave and remove their tithe. The newspaper doesn’t even know 1% of the story.
Of course, if people are going around talking about the church as though it was evil, sometimes you’d get the feeling that those people look at that church and those who attend it as worse than somebody who is unsaved? I mean, reading the comments on here is a good example of that. What happened to forgiveness? I can imagine, if they were all true, some people being hurt. But just find a new church home and continue on with life. Leave it God’s hands and quit taking things into your own hands. Umm.. the ark, vengeance is mine, those are all in the bible. People on here have even said that the comments could cause somebody to stumble because of the way the church has been attacked instead of loved. All repeated stuff though… it’s almost a mute point, right now. I just can’t believe the unforgiveness that some people are walking in. And then, somebody bad happens and all of a sudden all these people seem to have their justification to put people’s business on the street. I’m sure T.G. would appreciate S.G. putting his business on the internet like that. Talked about throwing T.C. under the bus but what would you call putting T.G.’s stuff out like that. Plus, we are all accountable for our own actions. He chose to live that lifestyle. Just seems that the church and their leaders are often used a scapegoat for other’s failures. Not blaming anybody but God always talks about checking yourself before pointing fingers. I’m sorry if I’ve offended anybody but we’re all in One Body, One Baptism, with One God but yet, we fight like little children who fight in the back of a car on the way to Disneyland! Okay, bad analogy but I think you get my point. I pray that the church and those involved continue to press into God and Seek His face and follow Him! As they do, God promises that He will heal their land. So, whether it’s at their current location, or not, I’m sure they’ll continue to move where God leads them, despite any opposition, whether from the enemy, other people, or even themselves.
TG can be found on the Megan’s Law website for sexual offenders. His “business” is public record because of the severity of the situation. His “actions” are not just his own business anymore. He gave that luxury up when he chose to commit the offense.
SG brought up the situation without naming names to make a point regarding the spiritual incest in the church. SG could have posted the website address but the point was not about TG so SG didn’t throw anyone under the bus.
Have you talked to SG? If not, how can you say that SG is angry or bitter? I know for a fact that she is neither. She has posted her number. Why don’t you call her directly. At least she will give an account for what she believes. Give her a call. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised to learn that this woman is gracioius, kind and full of Godly wisdom and integrity.
Don’t take my word for it. Call her yourself.
For most of this blog, I didn’t sense any of those characteristics for most of those comments. Yes, there was a point in which it changed and I did start to see kinder messages. But it’s not about her to be honest. The Body of Christ, Christians, will be known by their love. This is about that at times, even here, people that attend AFC are almost treated worse than sinners. Go read some of those comments on the NC Times article, and I’m sure you’ll see that there, as well. Look at it from an objective standpoint. Again, there’s always two sides to every, EVERY story. Everything that has been said has been stated as fact, but even innocent people have spent a lifetime in jail only to be proven innocent after spending 50, 60, or 70 years in jail. So, a bunch of stories told from different perspectives make it all true? I find it hard to believe that the church could judge somebody that hard but at times you would think that was the case. Maybe I’m going overboard with it, or over-analyzing these things. Just show me a scripture where you are supposed to attack a christian (even if he did sin, he is a man, but I’m sure there’s sin in every preacher’s life, commiting a sin does not destroy his/her relationship with Christ and make him/her unsaved), a believer and demand that everybody involved with him leave what they feel God has called them to continue to do in thier lives. Show that scripture to me, and I’m sure I can find many more that talk about love, forgiveness and restoration. I also find it funny that Apostle Ron Satrape was attacked when he came on here looking for evidence and was negated because he had to prove his credentials. He even said he was overseeing the church now and would be open to hearing proof and now these news articles prove that he wasn’t sent by Barry Cook but is in fact in oversight. Could an opportunity have been missed, when supposedly, nobody will return calls or e-mails to meet.
I agree that T.G. did lose his right to that kind of freedom but I’m just saying, there was no reason to bring up a name or situation to try to make a comparison because, like I said, it was his life and his decision to take those actions. He’s accountable for his own soul. Hopefully he has repented and his relationship with Christ is continued. Okay, name wasn’t mentioned… but by saying he was on the team and blah blah blah, it wasn’t hard for anybody that may have attended during those times to know who it was. To me, that’s disrespectful. It’s not the right way to handle it. The analogy could have just been said without bringing people in as examples. So, again, please hear me in that I just felt it was disrespectful to use a person’s situation to justify your point. That’s how slander and gossip works though.
To M.O- I come to you with grace and peace… I think Scott Kay has made it clear to take this back and forth out of this blog. Listen- if you feel that SG is bitter and disrespectful, please contact her directly. SG’s info is listed above. Just to let you know, SG is not as bad as you think she is… Go ahead call her…
Thanks,
Salt & Light
I am so sad to hear about the AFC foreclosure… I saw this coming in the long run because of all the financial struggles that the congregation was going through… And not to mention all the broken marriages… I really do believe that sometimes we tend to depend on our own knowledge/understanding rather than depending on God… And when this happens we lose focus of Him… Jesus… Because it really is all about Jesus… Sometimes you can’t really hear God, because you are either so busy or so much involve in wordly things… But that’s okay… He can take you out of that darkness… Out of that empty and lonely place…
Barry prayers are with you and the AFC church. Just remember, it’s just a building… You can do praise and worship from your living room with two or three people- Jesus will be there… Because He said so in His word, that where there are two or more of His children praying and praising Him, He is with them… I want to encourage you to start living in the Truth… we all make mistakes but you have to repent… Confess… and watch His mighty hand restore you and renew your spirit… You have to Repent Now Barry…. Gal 6:7 “remember that you can’t ignore God and get away with it… You will always reap what you sow.” It’s never too late Barry… Do the right thing… Confess your sins… And please encourage Carolyn to do the same… All the best and God’s Blessings upon you….
prayer request… PRAY for AFC and the deliverance of Barry… Pray for restoration… Pray for direction… pray for repentance…. Please dont forget to Pray for Carolyn… Inspite of everything going down hill, Carolyn is actually a wonderful individual… She might’ve caused a lot of pain and drama for the Cook’s… Actually it cost two marriages… She has done a lot of great things for the AFC congregation.. It will take a lot of space to list everything… But please do pray for her deliverance as well… Pray to strengthen her spiritual walk… And pray for everyone on here that was hurt in someway from this whole ordeal. God’s Blessings and Healing be upon all of you… Grace and Peace!
Joyous greeting to everyone.
Praise the Lord. I am thankful this morning that our God reigns in the midst of so much confusion and misunderstanding. He is gracious and full of mercy to everyone who comes before him with a humble heart asking Him for forgiveness. His word tells us that He will not withhold wisdom to those who ask Him. If we do not pray amiss the Lord will guide us all through these end times with great victory. I bless the Church and ask her Bridegroom to lovingly lead her and guide her into that victory. We will be found without spot or wrinkle because the blood of Jesus blots out our sin. Through confession and faith we are made whole. Be made whole family of God.
MO, sincerely, please forgive me for any offense. Blessings to you and yours.
Salt and Light and M.O., I would like to gordially invite you ladies to lunch on Saturday. We don’t even have to discuss our situation at the church if you don’t want to. You can call me at 760.622.9976. This invitation is open to anyone who would like to join us.
Be blessed friends.
SG I will have to decline. Please pray for some relatives… See link attached… Families are gathering this weekend… So, it might now work out to meet… I would love to meet you one of these days….
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/04/30/news/coastal/carlsbad/nct91548d2578295db78825743b00546.txt
Just wanted to share the following posting by “walk in the light” on NCTIMES… I thought it was well said…
walk in the light
[-] wrote on May 1, 2008 6:32 AM:
Dangerous to mistakenly call the judgment of God a “religious spirit;” calling soulish fervor the power of God; prophesying things that people want to hear when God has not told you to say it; using the ways of the world to build a church; honoring the gifts of God over God Himself; trying to create His presence through fleshly means; worshiping man; hiding behind others and not confessing truth; thinking too highly of yourself; not being humble. God will not be mocked. He holds those in leadership to a higher standard. Demonizing everyone who leaves and not being willing to examine yourself is foolish. Judgment begins at the house of God. He is doing a purifying work in these last days. Recognize the Holy Spirit as He brings correction, and don’t mistake Him for the work of the devil. Moses could not enter the promised land because he did not rightly represent God before the people; he allowed his emotions and anger free reign. David repented, but there were grave consequences to his sin with Bathsheba. Ichabod. Cry out for repentance and maybe God will have mercy on you. Terri Cook loves God and would never leave her husband and break up her family over stress. She is woman of the Word and would only divorce for the reason that is allowed. Many others who have left love Jesus and were horrified at the way He was misrepresented at AFC.
My heart felt prayers go out to you and your family Salt and Light. If you need anything let us know.
Jesus……lavish this family with your love and peace. Console them as only you can…thank you…I love you Lord.
As a former member of AFC and still a member of the Body of Christ, I can say that I know both SG and BC personally. I also know how the leadership structure at AFC operates. If you question or have a differing opinion than that of leadership, you are automatically labeled as rebellious, coming against authority, or otherwise demonized.
To SG: I must say that I admire for the stand that you are making and I encourage you to continue in this battle to bring the truth to light. I have always known you to be a woman of bold faith and strong conviction with a heart that deeply loves the family of God as well as those who do not yet know Him. I stand with you in this battle no matter how difficult it may get. The fight for truth isn’t always a pretty fight but it is a ncessary one. I would much rather have someone look me in the eye or “on a blog” and tell me the truth than to deceive me with a lie.
I noticed that some of your comments on this post have been very bold and assertive, but I have no problem with them understanding the spirit that you are up against. BC has lied to his congregation about many things for many years.
SG, I know that I can trust you so be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might for He is with you and not against you.
By the way…why would it offend someone that you asked Ron Satrape about his credentials? When you go to the doctor don’t you want to know that he is qualified?
Pretty amazing stuff. My only connection with this is that I’m a follower of Christ who once saw this church from the road and thought the architecture was cool–and I’m an unemployed mortgage marketing specialist who receives news about San Diego mortgage meltdown issues. My first read of the foreclosure article gave me a “there’s more to this than that” feeling — so I reviewed the church’s website and looked for other news. Out of curiosity mainly.
Incredible path of communications on this blog — WOW — it’s like watching a movie! Not to be trite–actually pretty sad, but definitely not a NEW story. Very similar to a story in the Bible — actually a couple of stories. The first one kinda goes like this: “Hey Saul, God told you HANDS OFF that booty and loot (cattle, etc!) You say you did not take it anyway? Say, friend, then what’s all that bleating of sheep echoing through out the valley? Nonexistent sheep DON”T BLEET! (There’s a whoooole lot of sheep bleating and scattered around the AFC pasture–and the ONLY one NOT laying his life down for the sheep is their shepherd….hmmm. Just an observation.
The other story is even more fascinating. It’s the SG vs. the “leadership” at AFC. Whoa. At first, I thought, oh this “guy” interesting—then to find out it was a woman! WOW!!!! One torpedo after another, from the right, from the left, from the top, from the bottom, from the bottom of the barrel (the “vendor”) and from the pinnacle of the temple heights (the insider church leadership and their special new guy) and this lady stands her ground, accurately quotes and applies scripture, responds clearly and consistently, honors her husband and only wants one thing–the people and church she loved to know they are being misled and to ask them to go to their “leaders” personally and ask direct questions for themselves. She puts her name, phone number and email out there for everyone to know. And is willing to meet publicly and in person. On the other side, enter stage left and right, Tobiah and Sanballat, and those other close relatives of Eliashib — who by the way remains pretty silent — while T and S do the dirty work…turns out that the leader and T were family…
Read Nehemiah today — the word is sharper than a two-edged sword. Here’s a sample of why it seems so similar to me (the verses are not all listed below, but they are in order and a complete reading of the actual Book would be recommended:
“The remnant there in the province who survived the captivity are in great distress and reproach, and the wall of Jerusalem is broken down and its gates are burned with fire.”
When I heard these words, I sat down and wept and mourned for days; and I was fasting and praying before the God of heaven.”…Then I came to the governors of the provinces beyond the River and gave them the king’s letters. When Sanballat the Horonite and Tobiah the Ammonite official heard about it, it was very displeasing to them that someone had come to seek the welfare of the sons of Israel…So I went out at night by the Valley Gate in the direction of the Dragon’s Well and on to the Refuse Gate, inspecting the walls of Jerusalem which were broken down and its gates which were consumed by fire. Then I passed on to the Fountain Gate and the King’s Pool, but there was no place for my mount to pass. So I went up at night by the ravine and inspected the wall…But when Sanballat the Horonite and Tobiah the Ammonite official, and Geshem the Arab heard it, they mocked us and despised us and said, “What is this thing you are doing? Are you rebelling against the king?”
SG — I can see you are standing courageously and outraged–more by the deceit and degeneration of other’s faith and trust. You seem solid–the AFC leadership seems to be trying every tactic to discourage you, especially that guy who changed his “I called a staff member in the office” story three times, but your responses have continued to say the same thing. “Leaders ARE accountable! Tell the truth, restore those you’ve hurt.”
You know you may never see it happen at AFC while on earth, don’t you? These are the last days. But we don’t know the times/seasons, so keep standing and speaking out for as long as the Spirit leads you.
I have to laugh at the last part of Nehemiah’s story…where he says he laid the smack down, pulled some hair, smote them! Not that we would want to do that, but it’s still a clear picture of zeal for the house of GOD! I like the part where the naughty priest THE LEADER had made a secret room for Tobiah, where the Lord’s offering was supposed to be stored…and now conveniently missing from the room. When Nehemiah found out, he was ticked off! He tossed all Tobiah’s stuff out on the street–and refilled the room with items for the Lord’s offering storehouse. Y’all know what the offering is for, right? SO THE CHURCH DOESN’T GO BANKRUPT!
I didn’t read any “licking chops” to see the downfall at AFC by SG, only sorrow, anger (and GOD gets angry at sin when it stumbles others, too!) and a desire for things to be dealt with correctly. But from the other side…what a diverse cross section of tactics employed there! By the way, AFC, the “vendor” who claims you all trust very much and provide him with loads of inside information and business displayed some outright demonic behavior and conversation! Birds of a feather, dudes! And I don’t know or know of any of you, but wow, choose your associates more carefully! Ya wanna end up like Aaron’s sons? Or Saul? Or Eli? Or Judas? Try the David method before it’s too late! (Psalm 51…) These men were ALL leaders representing GOD. Five did what you’re doing. One humiliated himself before a nation and the world. One was forgiven and lived to be honored by God. Five were…not so much.
AFC wouldn’t do the right thing. Looks like the LORD is sending in the grim reaper (bank) to take care of it. (that’s a reference to the book of Nahum and Habakkuk! Check it out…
One undeniable fact into the character of BC is the CD that I listened to recently. On March 5th, 2006 the title of the message was; Corporate Communion and Release. The scripture used was 1Tim. 5:17-20. The pastor (BC) delivered the most hideous, demeaning, slanted and downright nastiest attempt at character assination on one of his Elders. People treat their animals better than this, for it to be done on at a communion service while th e congregation is holding the elements is even more disturbing! I wondered what did this departed Elder do to warrant such treatment? It was obvious most who listened that this was a personal and professional attack meant to utterly destroy this minister. Please, don’t just go by my observations, order a copy of it for yourself at AFC. The title and date of production is listed above, don’t be surprised if it is unavailable or has a 15 min. gap in the middle of the recording.
It even sounds like BC has his wife (still married at the time) sit next to the Elders spouse on the front row to comfort her. This appears to be the same woman many feel that fathered the pastors (BC) male child. How ironic and disrespectful would that be if it were true that he blasted this guy out of the water just to deflect attention from his adulterous relationship. If he would stoop this low and even use his spouse in this manner is disgusting. I am not claiming to know if he slept with the on the church payroll wife of one of his Elders, because I have no solid proof. A reasonable person would ask, if it is not true why hasn’t BC done everything in his power to disprove any and all rumors, if not for his sake, then for this ‘poor woman’ who has lost her husband and the peace of mind of his spouse and daughter. I feel that a man should first be able to take care of his own house and family before he can effectively minister to mine. Next point, 800 minus 600 (everybody got tired excuse) equals 200 members left. Now I don’t know of many real leaders who will sit back and watch 3/4 of their people walk out the door and be so arrogant as to not address it, by any means necessary. In address it, I am not speaking of ‘everybody is leaving me, ya’ll not support me, this person is talking about me, me, me, me, me, etc.’ type of addressing.
I look at the blogs every several days for new material, and if I were a betting person, I would put my money on SG and the observations and comments she makes. If you open your heart as you read her entries, you can feel love for Gods people, true integrity and sound character. Haven’t heard anything from BC, and the Youtube video from Easter that he did was totally read from a teleprompter that was positioned too high and too much to his right and our left when you view it. Once he puts the bible down, watch his eyes closely. Give me a break, if you’re a pastor and you have to read a small message concerning Easter from a TV screen? Makes me wonder if he wrote the words himself. I don’t think that truth will ever see the light of day. Talk to you soon.
Hello ladies and gentlemen. Wow, I don’t know what to say. The comments above are truly humbling. God bless all of you for your gracious words of support. I will do my best to serve them well. I really can’t put into words how I feel right now. Again, thank you….and blessings.
Sorry to hear that so many people feel this church is going to fail. I know that the leadership and the ministry of this church has undergone tremendous change and are seeking God on a regular basis. If you don’t believe this, then please, attend a service and I’m sure you will see for yourself, even from the beginning with Praise and Worship. Don’t judge this church based on what you’re hearing but believe God for them.
The leadership of this church is different than in the times that these accusations are being made. In fact, some of the accusations are coming from some who were a part of “that” leadership. They left and then decided that is was okay to come against the the very team/people/ministry methods/practices that they themselves put in place.
I know the people of this church believe for a greater end, an end that will see many continue to come to the faith through this ministry.
But again, I challenge you to see for yourselves how they are serving Our Lord and seeking Him and Him alone!
The Church will never fail. What is of God will remain! The stuff that is not of God is being rooted out! That rooting our process is not over with yet at AFC. Really it has just begun.
I have seen for myself very recently and AFC has a long way to go. Real restoration will begin with real repentance. No more excuses. No more whining. No more wordplay. No more manipulation and hype. No more false prophetic self justification. What is needed is found in the plan of redemption:
Confession with the mouth.
Repentance – turning away from sin.
Sancification through faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ.
These fruits are visible and made manifest through the character of the converted. In other words, let the fruit speak for itself.
To date the fruit is:
Divorce
Adultery
Exodus of leadership
Foreclosure
Public humiliation.
The scattering of hurt and wounded people whose church’s banner reads, “Helping the hurting and the hungry for 12 years.”
Maybe now humility will bring God’s true plan to pass.
God will never fail. He is always just. He does not take sides. He is for us not against us.
God bless the Church.
Just to be clear. We were never a part of any AFC corruption. Period
SG- You claim that the only fruit that AFC has manifested is Divorce, Adultery, Exodus of leaders…… but there are many people at AFC and even former members who have had there life utterly and profoundly changed becuase of the ministry of AFC. God has not forsaken AFC or forgot about it, He is still willing and able to touch lives through the leadership of AFC. I personally have experience tramendous breakthrough and healiing in my life as a result of God working through the leaders of AFC.
You seem to want to go into detail about the short comings of leaders and members of AFC but only breifly mention the situations that your son went through as a teen/ unwed father. (please dont take this as me attacking K cuz I have nothing against him) And then went on to blame it on the youth leadership at AFC. As a parent, you influence on your son should be far more then the influence of any other person. And weither intentional or not you breifly mentioned me. Yeah I was clustered in that mention of the number of unwed pregnancy that resulted in that youth group, but that is in no way AFC leaders fault. I made that mistake on my own but you know what, God was faithful to show His grace and mercy when I cryed out to him for forgiveness. And after wedding a bit before our child was born, Gods was so gracious in bringing us restoration. So you see, reguardless of the way that things started, my married and children are highly favored by the Lord.
Believe me there was a time when I to wondered about all the rumors and was hurt by them, but I have come to the revalation that they are all man and able to fall short of of Gods glory. So no matter if its all true, i dont go to church for Barry or for Ron or for anyone else. I go to church to serve the Lord and for nothing and NO ONE else. And quite frankly I have more important things to worry about in my life then the latest gossip going around the church. And I think there are far more worthy things to be spending our time doing then wondering and spreading rumors and making unfounded accustations at your former pastors. I can not comprehend why as a former member who has claimed to move on, is still so seemingly “obsessed” with this situation. Let God do is work and if all the claims of sin are true, God will bring light to those situations in His due time. So meanwhile, why not just spend your time building up the Kingdom of God and reaching the lost with the gospel.
Blessings,
Sabrina
Hello Sabrina.
You are not breaking any scoop about Kenny. Everyone knows that my older son Kenny is incarcerated. As far as him being a father, that is the word of a young woman who had several simultaneous sexual relationships in her 17 year life at the time she got pregnant. There is no certainity that Kenny is the father and until the child is given a DNA test which has also been refused by CD even though she has demanded money from Kenny; we do not conclude any relation with her child.
Sabrina I am glad you are being restored for your youthful mistakes. What a teenager does in his/her impressionable years can vary. But the word of the Lord says, that if we train up a child in the way he should go when he is old he will not depart from it.
You will be glad to know that Kenny is restored as well. He is set free from addiction and is currently writing a book that will be a blessings to many I’m sure. We will be doing this project together to help families who have gone through similiar hardships.
Every time that I am publically or privately asked about my family I have always told the truth without shame. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The only mistake that we made as parents is allowing certain individuals the opportunity to have a significant influence in our children’s lives. Unfortunately, the influence undermined everything that was being taught by us as parents and bred rebellion. We simply trusted the wrong people. This ungodly influence had a negative impact on a lot of people not just teenagers.
As far as unfounded accusations, well that is not true and you know it. But I see you are on a quest along with other AFC defenders to rail against truth this evening, so I will leave you in your state. However, please understand that my time is of value and the things that I am after are worth that time and effort. In the end, we will all be comforted by truth and the freedom it brings. Don’t presume that you can tell me what to do with my time or my life. It sounds like you still have some growing up to do.
Please tell Nan hi for me. Do you blame her for your youthful indescretions? I know that you ignored her advise to you and carried on sexually before you were married even though she did not approve. Why did you do that? What other influence was working that rebellion inside of you? Your mother was your greater influence/authority, yet you rebelled as many do when they are deceived about what they think is good for them. You and I both know that pregnancy outside of marriage at AFC is not an uncommon situation. It happens a lot. There is a definite problem with sexual promiscuity in that congregation. I know you believe you did it on your own and it is good that you are taking responsibility, however fornication and adultery has made a home at AFC.
These things are fact. If you persist with this nonsense, you will force me to expound on these facts. I suggest you think real hard before you continue.
Lastly, my husband and my sons are God fearing men who call me blessed. They support me 100 percent.
I fear that what you call breakthough from AFC leaders is really about your need to feel accepted in spite of your short comings. You’re being exploited for your weaknesses and I don’t think you even realize it. You feel like you owe them something because they didn’t correct you while you were in sin and allowed you to live your life as if none of it (the bad conduct) really mattered. In a way Sabrina you and Abe are somewhat responsible for being a stumbling block to the AFC youth. You guys sort of got the ball rolling. Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad everything is so wonderful for you now, but I hope you’ve really learned your lesson and that you take your responsibility more seriously now. You have a child of your own. I know you don’t want him/her to suffer for any unregenerated ways of living. The whole sins of the father thing……
I hope the thug life at AFC is finally being put in the grave along with all the other gang like ways of social behavior at AFC. It created a lot of dysfunction. The kids paid the ultimate price.
Here is an excerpt of Kenny’s book in his own words:
It was 1998 when I first visited AFC. I had grown up with the understanding that church was part of life. My earliest memories were of living on the Gulf Coast of Texas with Sunday School at the charismatic southern church down the road. I learned that church was a large family. Everyone helped out one another and a pastor was a trustworthy person. Church was a place for self evaluation and access to guidance from humble men and women that held themselves to a moral standard higher thanmost others. I was taught that a pastor should be a charismatic person. Someone passionate and vocal about what they stood for. Someone who truly believed in what they taught and was a leader to his or her followers. A pastor was a smiling accessible person. That why when I went with my dad to one of AFC’s Visitor Sundays I was initially impressed. I was 13 at the time time and the Gulf Coast had long since ceased to be our home. My family and I had moved to Oceanside some six years earlier and despite several attempts to find our spiritual home, we had not been able to. Up until that point, nothing we found could match the idea of what we felt a church should be. Either the congregation were stand offish or the pastor was milquetoast at best or a skeptic himself at worst. We didn’t get that feeling of home until we found AFC. Barry Cook was a charismatic everyman as a pastor. He was blue collar, down to earth and passionate about what he purveyed through the pulpit. He was organized. He had a plan. He wanted to bring spiritual revival to North County and was looking for a few good men and women to help him. Within months we were recruited. My entire family was wrapped up in our new church as tightly as could be.
We had overbooked our schedules with church services, events, event preparation, humble service and vats of volunteer hours. Not to mention our more than significant financial contributions. All in all, it was a heavy commitment, but we were excited to be a part of a family that cared for the community the way AFC did. No task was too small We just wanted to serve God. Time went by and before you knew it, AFC had been our home away from home for over two years. My family’s commitment to the church had not faltered, but I was beginning to notice inconsistencies in what was being preached and what was being practiced. At first, I chose to ignore these things because part of the stigma of being Christian is that people assume that Christians have a bloated sense of superiority. They assume that all Christians carry a “holier than thou” complex when in reality, Christians sin almost as much as the next person. I didn’t want to jump to accusations of hypocrisy when I knew that none of us were perfect. We all made mistakes, but what made us different as Christians was the fact that we were humble enough to admit when we were wrong and repent. As more time went on, however, it occured to me that if that was the measure of a Christian, than the founders of AFC had long since parted ways with Christianity. As a teenager, I spent a lot of time being involved with the “End Time Generation” youth group and thats where I first began to notice the little things. The first thing was the constant rotation of youth pastors. There was simply no consistent leadership. Each week a new, nervous member of the congregation would stand before us with a one page outline downloaded from a one size fits all website of acceptable teen messages. And when it wasn’t a cookie-cutter sermon, it was a two hour onpouring of reasons why we as teenagers were not ready to be anything more than faces seen and not heard. It didn’t make any sense to me. I believe the Catholic Church has a saying. Something to the effect of, “Give us a child until he’s five and we’ll give you a Catholic for life.” Even the skiddish people pleasing churches down the road understood that the key to a church’s longevity was the hearts and minds of the young people. At AFC, we were an after thought. We weren’t worth a full time pastor. We weren’t worth consistent leadership. We were worth a few square feet in the back of the receiving garage between tiers of storage.
Even the rotaton of inexperienced weekly teachers weren’t trusted. TC and VL used to hover in the back of our little room. I used to think they were keeping an eye on us but looking back, I realize that they were keeping tabs on the teachers as they taught. TC is an accomplished orator herself, but her messages were all saturated with one underlying theme. Anyone who spoke out against her and her husbands empire, excuse me, AFC, was to be marked as a Jezebel and ostricized from the body. Her and her husband’s teachings were so dogmatic that I’ve seen TC have one of her youth teachers physically escorted out of the room because he strayed from the “approved” two page message. Seeing as how neither of the Cooks would be tied down to any outline, I found this rather strange.
While this was happening at church, I was beginning to study European history at school. To study the history of Eurasia is to study the rise and fall of despot after dictator, after despot, and the first order of business for any self respecting tyrant was to silence dissenting voices. If I learned one thing throughout that course, it was that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Cooks were one by one excommunicating, if you will, those dissenting voices in their congregation. They were molding AFC into a group of obedient followers who wouldn’t question the doctrines they were taught, however contrived they might be. It seemed dangerous to me, but my family was so wrapped up in the churches success. We couldn’t just leave and I couldn’t speak out for fear of being sharply rebuked and cast out of the “Lord’s protection.” So I kept it all to myself and over time, it took a costly toll on my spirituality. Where before I would carry my bible to school and lie awake at night excited about God’s plan for my life, I would then lie awake at night wondering whether I even believed in God and the things I had been taught all my life. I was an intelligent young man and I would see BC recieve honorary doctorates from Bible Colleges and the same day listen as he conducted an entire fire-breathing sermon based on an absurdly inaccurate break down of one word and it’s meaning. By then, it didn’t matter how way out his messages were because the entire generation was trained to jump, yell, and agree passionately with whatever he spoke without questioning it’s validity. We were sheep. And not the kind described in the Bible as the Lord’s flock. We were the kind being led to the slaughter. We were more like lemmings than anything.
It wasn’t long before I simply couldn’t take it anymore. BC was not infallible and half of what he preached was just plain ridiculous. The fire inside me died. The church was not a spiritual home. It was a three-ring circus with BC as teh spell bounding ringmaster. He wowed his audience with multi-media propaganda, loud contemporary music, and big words that either didn’t exist or he didn’t entirely understand himself. PT Barnum one said, “A sucker is born every minute,” and I didn’t want to be a sucker anymore.
I forsook my beliefs and left Christianity for several years. I foreswore my parents and set off to make my own way without “God.” Eventually, I dived headfirst into drugs, alcohol, crime and the seedy underworld I was raised to stay out of. It took me years to even get back to the basic tenants of Christianity. During that time, the revelation that BC was alledged to having an affair with a married woman in teh church, even siring illedgitimate children only fueled by apostacy. AFC is a scam. I feel sorry for the weak minded individuals still attending and donating money on the eve of its foreclosure. BC is no better than the televangelists of the 80’s that preyed on the elderly and the simple minded for their social security checks. He is no more a Godly man than Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his extremist cohorts.
Looking back, I have been able to separate teh Cook’s sin from what I know to be true Christianity, but as a young, impressionable person, their complete lack of faithfulness to the Word of God very nearly convinced me that there wsa no God at all and that all churches were simply franchises designed to sell euphemisms and platitudes to a captive, guilt ridden customer base. I hope that this brief documentation of my experiences and impressions of AFC will help to expose the hypocrisy and criminal like misleadings of the church’s HUMAN founders without taking away from Gods original purpose for us. For God did so love the world, that he gave his only begotten son so what whosoever believed in him would not perish, but have everlasting lfie. (John 3:6)
And Barry Cook could never take that away from us.
Susan, I know that you think you know how things went when I got pregnant but as an outsider looking in you really have no idea. An yes my mom guided me in the right direction but I made a choice to make decisions contrary to that guidance. And I think it is only an excuse to blame the church. Me and Abe both took personal responsiblilty for our decisions and actions. And what you didnt see was meetings we endured explaining how we ended up in this situation and the rebuke and restoration we received. And our meeting with the youth explaining what had happen and encouraging them to stay faithful to the word of God and keep themselves until marriage. You didnt see the hours of counceling we went through to ensure we were ready to marry and care for a child. In short, you know very little about the process that we went through to prepare ourselves so I think it wrong of you to say you do.
And again now you are using me and Abe as a excuse for others mistakes. Although me and Abe were the first to get pregnant pre marriage at AFC, that in no way means we encourage any others to do the same. The fact that you would even imply that we would do so is insulting. Peoples choices are just that, THEIR choices. We walked out the results of our decision, we got married, had our child and continued on with our relationship with God and our service in the church. I finish school and took care of my family and home while Abe provided for us. So tell me in what way was I a stumbling block, because I was the first one to get pregnant. And I am not quite sure what you are refering to when you say “take your responsibilites more seriously now.”
Susan, once one is touched by God, there is no mistaking it. So for you to try and say that its all just me longing for acceptance is purposterous. I am fully reliant on God and Him alone so the opinion of others and weither they accept me is of no relevence. I have been touched by God at AFC and am still being ministered to there. So even if you refuse to believe that God can use AFC, its happening and lives are being changed by the power of God.
I have repented of those disgressions long ago and God was so faithful to forgive and provide restoration. God is so merciful and His grace if there for anyone who will repent and turn from there wicked ways. So although I have made mistakes, God showed grace and now I am free from the guilt and bondage of that situation.
As far as my children go, they are blessed and under the protection of God. I can not say what the future holds but I know that I trust the Lord with my entrie life and family and know that he will lead and guide us as parents. So in reguards to your whole sins of the father thing, God is more than able to break all those generations curses from either side of our family.
AFC has changed very much since you were last a member. Leaders have changed and the was things are handled have changed. So to compare AFC now to the AFC you attended is not accurate! But I trust in God and know he will reveal all in His appointed time, so meanwhile I will continue to serve Him faithfully at AFC and continue bringing souls into the kingdom of God.
On far different subject, I would love to write to Kenny, please ask him if it is ok to provide me with his address.
Blessings,
Sabrina
Wow SG, from someone who claims such Christian love, it would appear below the belt to ask SK why should committed sexual sin before she got married.
I have to be honest, sexual promiscuity is not just held up in one church, I’ve been to plenty of churches where this has happened and it wasn’t because the pastor was in sin.
How can you call someone out who has clearly repented and devoted their life to God then say if she persists with the nonsense you will have to expound on facts. That almost sounds threatening. I didn’t see a bit of love in that sentence at all.
If you are going to take the seat of authority against this church, and everyone calls you blessed, then maybe you should walk in it. From the looks of it, the fruit of the church has caused restoration, grace, love, character and identity in at least one person. Is it possible there are more?
Is it possible the church you used to attend based on all these posts, ceases to exist and that the foreclosure that I have read about is an opportunity to restore? Why is it that you can be grateful for a man’s failure but not for a church’s rebound?
Did anyone ever tell you that your son was a lost cause? Or how can a child with Christian values grow up to be addicted? Or are you one of the few that never received judgement?
From your post it almost sounds like you are justifying your sons actions by a pastor, if he didn’t start going to that church until he was 13, certainly his fundamentals and beliefs started from somewhere and it wasn’t the pastor or the church you are talking about.
Comments?
Good evening friends,
Wow, this has been a glorious day. We are experiencing an open heaven here at the Guinn family household. The blessings of God are overtaking us and abounding toward us from all directions. I almost want to say, “Enough.” but I won’t…wink…wink…
I’m sorry but I think I will remain in His presence instead of allowing this obvious onslaught of the spirit of Jezebel to move me out of the presence of God. I cannot come down now….sorry…
Anyway, my pastor gave us a word of knowledge on Sunday morning and told us in advance that we would experience this hatred…..but he also gave us instruction on what to do when it came….so here is goes
Father, I ask you to bless Sabrina, Abe and Shocked. Fill their homes with your love and grace. I speak healing, prosperity, and abounding grace into their lives. Father be glorified in all they do. In Jesus’ name…Amen.
Good night.
I expected that type of response. Bravo. Your acting should win you a Grammy.
Remember friends, you can contact me directly anytime.
SG- you got the BKK coming after you… The claws are coming out… hehehehehe…. BKK- Barry Klux Klan… That’s what this non sense is about… They are trying to defend BARRY…. You are all fools for defending that man… FOOLS I say… What kind of man lets his people defend him and he sits back and watches people from all over fight on behalf of his lies? What a coward. Sabrina and Shocked – looks like you guys are Barry’s little messengers, aye?!? or just plain idiots… hehhehehehehe… Please dont comment on behalf of Barry anymore.. Let him stand up for himself for once…
The comments were strickly based on what SG said, I don’t belong to the church being posted in this blog. I am just a reader that doesn’t understand why SG is being so nasty. I have nothing to comment on that Pastor, I know nothing about him. I just feel bad for SK and having to be judged again from someone who claims to be such a blessed Christian.
Shocked- then put a sock in it buddy.. you have no room to speak… “as an outsider looking in, you have no clue”…
Maybe I don’t know Non Sense, but are you a Christian? The Bible said they would know us by our love.
Shocked, I appreciate you coming to my defense on this subject, it was very nice of you. But having gone to church with Susan for years I clearly expected her to lash out at me when I refused to agree with her negative and destructive opinions. She claims to be doing Gods work but does not show the Love of Christ when one chooses not to agree with her. So I have taken her words for what they are, the words of a overly religous women who is bitter and unforgiving. And so what Susan says or thinks about me pail in comparison to what God said in His word about what He thinks of me.
And Shocked, I was quite sure she would not comment in return to you because when truth about her lack of love is metioned, it always evokes silence or a change of subject from her. So reguardless of what Susan says and does, God is still on His throne and having His will done in the earth. So I receive much comfort in knowing that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and that His promises for me are yes and amen!
Blessing!!
Sabrina aka SK
All of you need to stop – this is ridiculous.
When you have walked in each others shoes, ok…
but until then STOP already!
Unless you have lived to see the lies at that so-called church (CULT) you have NO idea the mesmerizing that takes place. People believe for years as I did – because of the fear instilled in me and my family of curses and ridiculous crap.
Suzanne is only trying to bring out the truth – leave her out of this.
When BC comes forward wiht the truth about his son, Ricky, then lets talk about how you are all going to feel. will it be the same as now?
to find out your own pastor lied to you for YEARS is a horrible feeling. Please prepare yourselves because your turn is coming soon. We have just walked out the process of healing and some of my family still battles with WHY DID HE DARE LIE TO US after we gave our entire life to this work?
He is a lying, cult leader who needs to be stopped in his tracks from ever doing this again.
the close of the church is the beginning of that process and YES it is in God’s hands.
He won’t be mocked.
Have a fun day but be prepared for the heartache and know that when you do get ready to go thru it there are those that have gone thru that will help you pick up the pieces as we all have done.
Enough,
I have personally asked my self what would I do if all the rumors are true, several times. And yes I can admit I would be hurt and probably angry but that does not change the God that I serve. It doesnt mean that AFC is dead or that God has forsaken the still faithful members of AFC. As I have said before, I dont got to church and serve in the body of Christ for anyone but for the Lord, not for Barry or anyone else. So yes it would hurt to be lied to but Barry is not my God so it is only a mere man letting me down, not God.
Sabrina
Enough, have you stopped to ask yourself, what if the rumors are all lies? What then?
Sabrina
your youth and inexperience is showing here, I know the both of you (SG and SK) and I must say that you ,Sabrina , are WAY out of your league here ……. besides SK this is not about you.
600 people it seems have come to the reasonable conclusion that the pastor of AFC is not being truthful to his flock…….
I don’t think she ever attempted to make it about her. By the way, it’s not about SG either. It’s been quite implied that those at the church are defending the pastor, and are under control and manipulation of the pastor. It appeared to me that she was offering herself as an example of those who are fully aware of the rumors and situations but still believe God has kept them involved with the church regardless. It was also being insinuated the leadership of this church could not do anything to affect anybody’s life in a positive way towards Christ, again, offering herself as a personal testimony that she has been impacted towards growth in her own relationship with Christ. It’s funny but I saw it in the comments on the news article as well, that when somebody offered a differing opinion that this church may still do well, they were personally attacked as though they didn’t know what they were talking about.
What would youth have anything to do with it? By youth, are you implying age? Age is nothing. I’ve seen 40 and 50 year olds about as mature as a teenager. And teenagers that are more mature than they should be. I’m not saying anything about SG, so don’t assume I am. Don’t even know how old she is. What league are the playing in? A debate league? Last I checked, Jesus called all of us His church, His bride.
By the way, I agree with Shocked that the Bible tells us that they know us (Christians) by our love but it’s hard to see love in a lot of what’s being posted by “christians” and this is not directed at any one person, or one side of the issue. Love wouldn’t threaten to put people on blast about “facts” simply because another person offers a differing view. I’ve read a lot from both sides. It appears to me that a long time ago, many people put too much trust in this “man” and not enough in God. And when they saw his humanity, it hurt them. Not to say he’s perfect because I’m sure he’s got issues just like the rest of us, maybe more so, now.
So, on one side, maybe just leaving it in God’s hands is enough, instead of what seems to be a personal agenda at times. On the other side, seek restoration and keep praying that God will give you clear direction for your next move, with or without a building.
Don’t expect me to come back to this page. This will be my one and only post here. There’s been enough here for a day’s reading and at times, it hurt just to see the division that’s going on. Scott, I’m sorry you had this happen to your blog and I hope that you can forgive us. God Bless You All!
God, we bless your awesome and holy name! We pray that your love move through the hearts and lives of all of those involved in this situation. We pray that you will continue to bless this church and the lives connected to it. Let your wonderful presence be with them as they seek and pray for you to move in thier land. Those who have chose to move on, whether for right or wrong, keep them in your hand and move them towards the next step in their life with your destiny set before them. You path is before all of us but it is up to us to choose to walk those steps that have been ordered for all of us. You will be the righteous judge in all of this and you, and you alone, see the hearts of all those involved, and we thank you that you and you alone are the only one who can righteously judge us. Shine light where there is darkness, love with there is hate, peace where there is fear, joy where there is unhappiness, grace where there is condemnation, salvation where there is repentance, restoration where there is destruction, your presence where there is pursuit. We love you above which we can possibly speak or show and know that you love us greater than that! Amen!
Shocked- for your information I am a non believer… People like you keep me this way…… My sister was a member of AFC and I attended AFC on and off for three years… Just because I attended on and off doesnt make me a Christian… So, please dont preach to me buddy… You over here claiming your a christian and yet you attack the one person that is fighting for the TRUTH to come out (thanks SG)… I have seen one too many things with my own eyes and my sister was highly active in the church… Which means so know a lot more than I do… So, back off… Like I said you have no room to speak….
If you have any questions or comments for me directly, you can contact me directly at 760.622.9976. I will be happy to answer your questions.
Scott, thank you for allowing this process to take place. Without this public forum, the lies and ongoing deception would have been buried forever. The truth is being brought to the light. I know the process isn’t pretty and can sometimes seem “nasty,” but most of the individuals here on BOTH sides are God fearing and loving people. Unfortunately the pastor at AFC would never have allowed any group discussion about this matter. Anyone who ever brought it up was treated with zealous contempt. And because he continues to not allow anyone to address him directly, we are left with no other choice. And as you can see, the defenders refuse to meet with others who KNOW the accusations of ministerial misconduct are true. They come on the blog in a desperate attempt to offset the allegations, but refuse to meet with the people that they’ve “known” for years. Right now, restoration is not being saught out by AFC. They are only available for retaliation. It is expected, but very unproductive. As you can see, it is not getting the church anywhere.
We’re still in the red people.
Romans 12:9-21 (should help us all out on what to do in this) Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s people who are in need. Pratice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
I am not a member of AFC but have been there many times (God forgive all those who have sinned against you at AFC and place it in their heart to repent if they have not done so already) I my self did make the same mistakes as Barry Cook and Carolyn God has forgiven me and so has my husband i have repented and turned away from my sin and both my husband and myself are being restored by his mercy and grace i have learned from my mistakes and a stronger child of God now.
We must stop fighting each other we do not fight against flesh and blood but against the evil one in high places satin has done his job here its up to us to stop him not each other we must remember we are all one body and must work together to defeat this domonic spirit that is taking down what God has put up Barry was once a true man of God who needs God’s love through us to help him return to the high calling. satin came after this man because all the truth he lived for God and satin knows if he can take out who is in charge then he dosnt even have to worry about any one under who is in charge (you take out the shepard and the sheep will scatter as 600 has) I love the Lord and what satin made for evil God will make for good. watch and see what the Lord will do with this…….. Blessings to the kingdom blessings to Terry, Vince, and Ricky
and non sense, i think ur on the outside looking in, as well…….. simply because ur sister attended and was active doesn’t mean u know the whole story……… there’s always 2 sides 2 every story.
also, since claiming 2 be a non believer, u wouldn’t fully understand how god would require us 2 handle specific circumstances, such as these…….. i’m sorry that u feel that people like shocked keep u in that position but all shocked did was ask SG why she would make personal attacks on SK, instead of doing what God asks all christians 2 do and that’s 2 show love, which shocked didn’t feel SG was doing, at all……….. if anybody has pushed towards the non christian way 2 respond, I think it would have been SG in this instance……. just my opinion, though.
here’s a 12-step program for you that someone posted on topix.net listed as Foreclosure Woes Hit North County Church:
Recipe for Disaster
1. Senior Pastor sleeps with Associate Pastors wife (Hispanic)
2. Associate Pastors wife becomes pregnant.
3. Baby is born (blond hair with blue eyes)
4. Associate Pastor questions fatherhood.
5. Associate Pastor divorces church-employed spouse.
6. Senior Pastor publicly smears departed Pastor from the
pulpit on 3/5/2006.
7. Church members begin to question motive and request DNA.
8. Childs mother stays on payroll and is ‘restored’ to pulpit
duties by Senior Pastor.
9. Finally junior leaders request DNA test from Senior Pastor.
to quelch rumors and mass exodus of church members.
10. Senior Pastor remains aloof, withdraws from contact with
non-leadership members of the congregation.
11. People leave and take their tithes & offerings with them.
12. Church goes into foreclosure because of PRIDE.
Okay, where do I begin???All I know is this, I was a leader at AFC for over 9 years. I got to see a lot of the “behind the scene” action. I cannot believe I was “bewitched” by Barry for all of those years. He manipulated me by making himself look like a “poor victim” and how everyone out there was out there to get him. I also was one to defend him and AFC. But praise be to God who always gives me victory -He finally opened my eyes.
Carolyn (I do pray salvation for her soul), she did not just hurt herself, ex husband, and innocent Ricky, but she also hurt a multitude of people. She too will be held accountable by God -she did not show any fruit of repentance. She is out of AFC, but will not be surprised that she is still in connection with Barry. I would not be surprised if Barry leaves O’side and takes Carolyn with her. On this one, I do feel sorry for Carolyn because she does not know what kind of a “master manipulator” that he is. And boy, if they do ever end up together -Carolyn get ready for the ride of your life! Don’t think he’ll treat you any different than he did Terri. Only time will tell.
Anyway, back to what I was saying…What I am writing is not slander…it is FACTS. I did see Barry countless times with Carolyn in his office and doors shut for hours -his armor bearers (like dorks) standing outside the door just waiting for them to get done -sometimes it was hours… To the common eye looker, it was very obvious that she was a favorite of his -since he so much defended her. But let me say this to all the men left at AFC, you better keep an eye on your wives with Barry around (he does have a history of being a womanizer -not just with Carolyn).
One more thing…does anyone know if Brian Buffini knows that his name is being defamed by Barry & Carolyn, saying that Brian is the father of Ricky? If so, that can be a big lawsuit if he is not -and it can also be a juicy story if it is true. Does anyone know??? I was just wandering…
Hal & Suzanne, I know that you are fighting the good fight of faith! Continue to Press On for the mark of the High Calling! You are a pioneer in this and I recognize that your heart’s desire is to see freedom come to North County! I thank you for standing up for truth. You are truly a woman of God and no matter what anyone else says, I got a chance to speak to you a couple of times and I can definitely see Christ in you! Blessings. It was good running into you a couple of times in the last month! =)
okay- Like I said my sister was an active member of AFC and I was attending on and off for over a three year period… It’s a long enough time to see and know what’s going on behind doors… And dont sit there and say because I am a non believer I dont know how to handle these things…. Besides, this has been going on for years and years and yet you dont have a resolution to the circumstance at hand… This is only because Barry is living a lie with Carolyn… Need a resolution to this circumstance, Ill give you one- Tell Barry to take a DNA test…
To God’s word: Thank you for the scripture and your transparency. I am so thankful to hear that you and your husband are being restored. I know several couples who were at AFC for years who are now divorced. They didn’t make it. There were a few couples who had affairs on each other yet because of their honesty to each other they are still together.
I have to ask, since you brought it up, when did the retoration begin? Was it at the point of confession and a promise to turn away from the sin (repentance)? From there did you talk it out….maybe even shouted it out? Once the foundation of truth or trust was repaired (no matter how hard the truth was to hear) were you able to move forward in the grace of God?
You see friends there is no majic wand to make it all disappear. There is a process to restoration and it starts with telling the truth. The initial shock can be very uncomfortable and cause a lot of “drama” however the people involved can now either work out the problems that caused the infidelity and move forward or decide another direction. Either way, as long as someone is being lied to no REAL restoration can take place.
This is even true of salvation. First we have to admit that we are a sinner in need of a Savior, repent of our sins and then believe God by faith that we are saved through Grace. The unmerited favor of God comes and reconciles us with the Father. It all started with confession. Grace is there whether we confess or not, but Grace is manifested through the initial confession.
If BC had a real revelation of Grace he would not be in the situation he is in now. Grace would have manifested itself in this situation through the confession of truth. Grace is still there….. just waiting…………………
To SG yes it was at the point of confession and repentace (turning away from that sin) that I was free and able to be restored back to God’s promises for my and my family life. I also have a high calling on my life that satan has tried to keep me from walking in. But no weapon that is formed against me will prosper and the gates of hell shell not prevail. I see the big picture here satan coming against the KINGDOM OF GOD and God’s people. I do not know Berry’s conversation with God when God is alone with him, I know that in the same Adam and Eve when sinned they hid from God instead of steping out and saying here I am God please restore me. When we fall (when not if) because its all a matter of time that we all will fall short, but when we fall we dont hid from God but face him face to face. So yes it I did have to talk it out with God and my husband I had to do what ever it took. I does start with the TRUTH it sets you free, thats only step one you do have to face all the consequences for all the lies and the hurt that you caused the ones that love you. To Carolyn I have walked in your shoes and betrayed my husband a true man of God in the same I beleave Pastor Vince was please tell the true for all the souls that are involved. I feel your pain and know how hard it is I do not throw stones but receive you with Love and open arms Im sorry the evil one has sifted you and told you that is better that you didnt tell the truth but that is a lie and it only comes from the father of all lies satan him self. I love you Carolyn with an agape love, be free and return to your first love Christ the Lord. You are the head and not the tail above and not beneath take your rightful places back from the true enemy satan the accuser of the brotherin.
God’s Love to all who is seeking his face.
Wow! It’s amazing how vindictiveness, name calling, and blame is being use so successfully among Christians to destroy each other. The enemy must be SO PROUD!
I also noticed how some have avoided addressing real biblical scriptures regarding love and restoration by posting sly comments, listing their phone number for people to call so that valid and different biblical exhortation cannot be seen, changing the subject altogether, outright personal attacks and character assassination, addressing only the portion of a statement that they find favorable while avoiding others, reciting slanders orginally posted in order to keep the argument going and out right avoidance. THE DEVIL MUST BE SO PROUD!!!! He is the accuser of the brethren and we are doing his job for him.
This scripture, outlines how this thing works the best:
Acts 6:11-14
11 Then they secretly induced men to say, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.”12 And they stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; and they came upon him, seized him, and brought him to the council.13 They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous words against this holy place and the law;14 “for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.”
We should not be surprise. This is nothing new!
That’s Right Henry!
We need to do our jobs as Christians and help to recover and reconcile that which is/was lost and to push for a better end so it does not happen again. God is a God of chances but people are deceitful and a brood of vipers. I have compassion for all parties involved including those on here that profess to be Christians but do not display the love that Christians are to be known by. Allow Love (charity) to be the guide not what has happened in the past. Yes learn from your past but move on and let it be.
Now this feels like some Christians are coming forth. You go North County! Stop this long history of… leadership growing to a certain place… humanity shows itself… the people take up the enemies work. Then another cycle repeats itself! Maybe you guys should prepare a plan to move through this type of situation. It is a territorial stronghold. He was a reformer who got a demonic strategy worked against him. You who know him also know this fact! How many more before you respond in love, mercy and forgiveness. Do something different it DOES take all that!!! Pastors and leadership are hurting around here…walk in grace and faith…forgive and fight forward AFC…Pastor Barry…and Christians all over the county!
To- Way to go North County, Henry, and That’s right Henry
We really dont need chocolate covering over the truth… Thanks!
The heart and motive of truth is sweet on it own – no chocolate required.
the woman caught in adultery – the law said kill her – Jesus (the truth) said Go and sin no more
the paralyzed man – the law said you are sinful – Jesus (the truth) said your sins are forgiven you – rise up and walk
the woman at the well – the law said she should not even be spoken to (after all she was a divorcee (5 husbands) and adulterer & fornicator (the man she was with was not her husband) – Jesus (the truth) said if you ask of me I will give you living water
TRUTH – HOW SWEET IT IS!!!!!
Somebody please help me, I have been trying to find the scriptures where God said that it is ok to sleep with another mans wife,divorce your own wife because you were “stressed”, drive your church into forclosure,lie to your congregation, drive 600 people out the door and do nothing to try to stop the exodus, sit back and do nothing while the remaining few loyalists become the laughing stock of the christian community……..I have been looking through my Bible for days now but I cant seem to locate chapter and verse.
To AFC It is not the world that is judging ……it is the CHURCH
Nobody is condeming Barry Cook to hell…..we ALL desire restoration but we all know that it will never come untill the TRUTH is told.
I noticed that you did not address the scriptures given by “To Stay True”. If ind this usually happens when people want to leap over scriptures that they do not like in order to make their point. It no wonder you can’t find scriptures then to support your cause.
Let see all the things you stated as fact that are assumptions:
1. Sleeps with another man wife – unless you were in the room that would have to be assumption.
2. Drive your church into foreclosure – yes the church is in foreclosure but “drive” would definitely be an assumption.
3. Lie to your congregation – since no transcripts were provided to validate this then it would have to be classified as assumption.
4. Drive 600 people away – unless you spoke to each and everyone of these people you would have no idea why they left – again assumption. And see my above comment about “drive” – again assumption.
5. And do nothing to stop the exodus – you do not know what was done as you are not part of the leadership at AFC – so you would only be guessing and even your best guess would still be an assumption.
6. A few loyalist becoming the laughing stock – wow that’s a mass generaliztion – there are over 300 regular loyalist attending. Not to mention 5 churhes in this city and at least 7 churches throughout this nation – now we are in the 1000’s standing for and with AFC. Again, that statment although low and obviously intended to intimidate is also an assumption. There is more for AFC than against.
7. “Judging…it is the Church – AFC has not received one judgement by a church or a pastor only calls of support. Some have given offering and have come to prayer times to offer support. So, again, the church judinging AFC is definitely a mass generalized assumption.
And, again, I would like to direct your attention to the aforementioned scriptures. And, 1 Corinthians 13 is good as well.
Yet, here we are!!! You’re the same assumption poster that got rebuked on the NC times blog by the staff writer aren’t you? You couldn’t find a forum there so here you are preaching your same rhetoric about assumptions. Well it wasn’t received there and it is not received here…except for those obvious BC worshippers!! Remember this….”I think you have a weird spirit and that you are nasty… is that slander??”
I thing those that post only and don’t agree to meet in person do so because they can’t look people in the eye when they make their statements. They can face their monitor but not the people they are trying to control. SG did not limit her invite to a phone call and/or email. She is willing to meet in public face to face. She is the one with real courage.
Well praise be to God….AFC is finally talking about this ordeal. Even though the real issues are being avoided as usual…at least we are in the same room together…well sort of.
Hey everyone….some of you know where I live because you’ve been to my house on several occassions. ..I invite the whole group to come over this weekend so we can sit down face to face and discuss these issues. You have my number and email. I’m happy to facilitate this meeting of the hearts…..
Give us a call and we’ll do it on Saturday. 760.622.9976
To God’s Word: I really really appreciate your superb honesty. Beautiful stuff!!! I believe God is going to utilize your testimony of true restoration for his glory. Your bravery is tremendous. Abundant blessings to you and yours!!
Wow,
I am not the person you are referring to but if I was would you attack me as you are them. Obviously, 1 Corinthains 13, was not read because if it was the approach would have probably been different. Again, no sound doctrine scripturally offered on your part only more accussation.
Perhaps we can give the devil a vacation. He use to be known as the accuser of the brethren. I think others have taken his place.
But so, it is easy for you this time, here’s the scripture:
1 Corinthians 13:4-8
4 Love suffers long and is kind;
love does not envy;
love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own,
is not provoked,
thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things,
believes all things,
hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails.
Homework: Read 1 Corinthians 5:14-20, Galatians 5:22-23
Terrific scripture: 1 Cor 13, 1 Cor 5:14-20, and Gal. 5:22-23, but then again aren’t they all. Now if WE can all align our intentions for posting the word with the actual scriptures being used, that would be great.
Okay, gotta go eat dinner with my beautiful husband. We’ll be at Davina’s off of Mission next to the Yum Yum donuts if you wanna come. They have the best Mexican food in OS.
Excellent,
Let’s aligned ourselves with the word.
When I think of AFC, BC, its leaders and members these scriptures come to mind.
1 Corinthians 4:8-13
8 You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!9 For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored!11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless.12 And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure;13 being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.
2 Corinthians 4:7-13
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.8 We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed—10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.12 So then death is working in us, but life in you.13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak,
Yes, I agree, but you forgot to mention the people who are no longer members of AFC. Don’t forget to bless them as well.
However we still want to meet with Barry Cook and ask him some questions directly. We hope his heart will be open to telling us all the truth.
BTW, dinner was fabulous!
Henry and To Seeking Truth, I think you hit the nail on the head with avoiding responding to certain questions and avoiding them with other FLUFFY words. This is tiring though. It’s gonna keep going on for quite some time unless somebody calls a halt to it. And no, not because of the accusations that are coming out because they’ve been out there for years. Just because we should be one Body, not divided like this. I’m sure Jesus is sitting at next to God really smiling about this blog conversation, right? I feel like I’m gonna get attacked just for saying this but whatever makes you feel better about yourselves. I know how to turn my cheek, just like my Word instructs me to. God bless all of you!
Hi JM….
I really don’t think this “conversation” upsets Jesus very much at all. Remember He slept right thru the storm. In other words, this is just a conversation. I really don’t feel divided from anyone. I certainly do not have an “us against them mentality. ” Sure, there are two different schools of thought being expressed in this dialogue, but no one is threatening anyone and no one is going to loose control of themselves…right? Seriously, I hope you hear my heart and I am not attacking anyone. This is the first time in many years that this group of people have had an honest conversation about this situation. Correct me if I’m wrong friends, but does anyone out there really “hate” your brothers and sisters who are speaking up on both sides of this issue (so to speak)? I know I don’t hate anyone. Jesus can judge each of our hearts and let us know if anyone is in doubt about themselves. Christians are too afraid of confrontation because some realize that their souls are not fully capable of handling the emotional part of us. So we just walk away. Personally, I am not afraid of a single person on this blog or any other. Sure in person they might express a little or maybe even a lot of emotion because of what is at stake both personally and corporately in the kingdom. But I am confident that no one would do anything to cause serious harm to anyone. These folks, including myself, are God fearing and loving people. I do not blame a single person on this blog for any of this…..the responsibility sits on one man’s shoulders and if given the opportunity, I will address him personally. However, that does not mean I hate him or that I don’t believe in the power of grace and restoration. I believe in it completely. The reason I feel “entitled” to speak to him face to face is because I love him and I am not afraid of him because I believe he loves us too. I just want him to look me in the eye and tell me the truth and trust that I have enought God in me to want the absolute best for him. I am not an enabler. For all the years that I’ve known BC, he was never an enabler either until this fall.
Barry, it is time now to trust in the Lord. Come before the family and tell us the truth. 600 people are waiting for that and only that. No one WANTS to see your demise. We fear that you are doing this to yourself and we fear that you will take many along with you if you don’t repent. We did not WANT to disassociate with YOU but we had to disassociate with the sin. Please Barry do the right thing. You’re strong enough. Anyway, where you are weak, God will give you GRACE and so will we. Why? Because we love you….a lot…………………
Okay, Saturday night at 7:00 pm. My place, email for directions guinnfamily@cox.net
Just show up and bring a friend. We’ll be here. Somebody invite Barry to come too. He is welcome.
All that sounds good…thougts….conjectures…..interpretations.
How about the word of God….
….SCRIPTURES ANYONE!
1 Cor.5:12-13- “It isn’t my responsibilty to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibilty to judge those inside the church who are sinning.13God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.” Please don’t ignore this scripture. God never called us to be blind or ingnorant. 7 of my own family members died in the Jim Jones tragedy. When my Aunt was contemplating whether or not to drink the kool-aid, I can only imagine those “religious” ones around her misqouting such scriptures as,”Don’t judge”, or, “He who is without sin”, or “They will know us by our love”. All of those scriptures have there place, but it’s not here. The truth is BC’s actions caused much hurt to the Kingdom of God and his own ministry. Can you imagine if true repentance came to this man? God only knows the restoration that would take place. And who knows? Maybe all the scattered sheep would return.
Oh, Do I need to verify my credentials, My Family and I attended AFC for 7 years, were leaders, and watched the ministry rise and then fall after a series of events transpired. God can and wants to restore but there are no short cuts!!
See Ya Saturday SG!!
Grace and Peace my sisters and brothers. It is truly UGLY what Im reading on here. But then again, it is true that the TRUTH is not always beautiful… It breaks my heart to see the people of God fight on here… As Grown Adults and Christians, we should take up SG’s offer and meet at her place this Saturday…. We shouldn’t look at this as a get together to FIGHT… No! We should come together to Pray… Come together to HEAL, to forgive, to UNDERSTAND and ENCOURAGE one another…… This is exactly where the Enemy wants the People of God to do… FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT… But why are we Fighting, if we serve the same God?? I know I serve a mighty God…I serve an Awesome God, who is loving and forgiving…. Yes! Thank you Jesus…
You see my brothers and sisters, we are living in end times and we shouldnt give the ENEMY any reason to get a hold of our minds and our hearts… You see I have forgiven BC for everything I saw and everything I heard… Got to admit that I was really hurt by it… But at one point, I had to learn FORGIVENESS… it was a challenging trial but God showed me a way… Because He doesnt put you in situations that you cant handle… God just wants to see if you can Trust Him enough and have Him take control of your situations… and I did with this one… And I have to tell you, it felt really great being set free from all that…
All Im saying is, the UGLINESS of this ordeal is spreading all over.. Check out the link at North County Times… It has 196 comments already… I wont be surprise if it reaches 250 in the next hour or so… You see, people all over the county knows about this and it shouldnt be this way… See link below:
http://nctimes.com/articles/2008/04/29/news/coastal/oceanside/nct24d2152364bf7fe9882574390066f.txt
SG- I really admire the woman in you… Because you are truly a woman of God… My prayer and Hope is that everyone will accept that just because you have a different opinion as well as the many others who stand with you, doesnt make you the enemy. I really think that God blessed you with the courage and fire to come forth this way….. And by the way, thanks for offering your home as a place to meet…
C’mon everyone, lets get together… Because this is not just on this blog or north county times… Its all over the place… I had a lady at work asked me about AFC… I told her that I was no longer a member of AFC and she continued by saying that the Pastor and ex- Co-Pastor’s wife and blah, blah, blah……. I just stopped her and told her that I didnt want to hear it… And this is not the first time I was approached by this… Even my hair dresser asked me the same thing… I just mind my business and didnt comment on any remarks, but I did however asked her to not mention that situation again…… So, you see this mess is all over… The TRUTH will be revealed but in God’s timing not anyone’s… So, Let’s get together and STOP the enemy before its gets too far… We should all continue to pray for AFC and the congregation as well as BC… Some of you might think it’s too late… But it’s always better LATE than NEVER….
Grace and Peace and God’s Blessings to all!!
This is better than Days of Our Lives… I got front row seats to members and ex-members attacking and/or defending the pastor… this will make a great movie… Lies, Sex, and War (warfare). This is absolutely RIDICULOUS…
TO DAYS:
My dear sister/brohter- I invite you to join everyone at SG’s house on Saturday. There you can get a front row seat to Forgiveness and hopefully deliverance. I say this with love and concern that you are just on this blog adding fuel to the fire.
Grace and Peace my friend.
To To SG: Come over on Saturday night and you will see the demonstration of God’s word. We are doing more than talking the talk my friend, we are living epistles…..walking the walk. Be blessed and I hope to see EVERYONE on Saturday. You’ll recognize the house……the love of God will lead the way.
Be blessed my dear and cherished family of God.
Grace and peace, right back atcha!
to Grace and Peace: Isn’t it sad that some church folk aren’t real enough to come together and reason out the scriptures and attempt to bring restoration to the body. The enemy would love for us to walk around like stafford christians and pretend we don’t see and smell anything wrong and let the enemy destroy us. Some of us won’t sit around and let that happen. Hopefully there is enough GRACE for us to come together, and God forbid if we settle for false PEACE.
Grace & Peace- read for yourself.. i dont need deliverance… Tell that to the pastor of AFC…
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20080509-9999-1n9church.html
Grace & Peace – dont take it the wrong way… I meant to say that the Pastor of AFC needs deliverance and read the link above…it’s all over the Papers today. sad sad story.
So if the ex husband VL doesn’t believe its BC’s kid, and the wife CL says it isn’t, why is he still being persecuted? If VC was that upset, wouldn’t this be the perfect opportunity to get the truth out? When the reporter calls and he is up north and doesn’t have to face the people in Oside, wouldn’t he tell them the truth? And why would the reporter lie and say VC didn’t think it was BC’s?
Everyone else on here seems to think BC is the father except for the people involved? This doesn’t make sense.
I wonder if the wave will shift, meaning, I wonder if now that people can’t shame BC for being the father of an illigitimate child that now they will start making up other accusations just to prove they are still right in their wanting to see him fail.
It’s surprising that SG says “we love you” to BC but in so many of the posts, there is no grace, no love, no restoration. Shouldn’t love be seen in everything? Not just when you feel like it? The attack on SK was unwarranted and then when challenged, all of a sudden SG “can’t come down” because open heaven is in their home.
I wonder what would happen if he took the DNA test and it shows he is not the father….what would people do then? What accusation would they use to justify their actions?
The power of life and death is in the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Proverbs 18:21
I wonder what fruit some of these people will be eating in the upcoming months.
If people are going to accuse, at least be humble enough to admit that there is a slight chance you could be wrong. And if so, what recourse do you have? I see you pointing the finger at someone saying, “He is guilty and he needs to repent.” But what if the one pointing the finger is really the one who is wrong? Why aren’t you measured by the same grace?
Are we not all pastors and preachers to our families? Surely if SG is going to preach to all the people on this blog and talk to “so many” of the people at AFC, then shouldn’t you be held to the same standards as a pastor at a church? Or are the rules different because you aren’t at a pulpit? Seems to me this blog is your pulpit.
It’s just a question, please don’t attack me as I have seen you do on here to prove you are right and BC is wrong. It’s just a thought. And I am sure it would be easy for you to accuse me of being one of those “AFCer’s” trying to “cover up” something. Surely, anything that was at one time being covered up is not any more. Don’t judge because you think you know who I am, just answer the questions.
Okay, let’s just say that Barry is not the father, then could it be true that it was Carolyn’s ex boss, before she started working @ AFC? I wonder if Brian Buffini knows???
I also wonder if Vince was reached and not just “quoted” by someone else. I hope they get their facts straight.
To: Humbled by Jesus
“I wonder what fruit some of these people will be eating in the upcoming months,” and “this blog is your pulpit” are not very christlike things to say… Remember, the devil is not far from anyone’s heart… The enemy is laughing because we are doing one thing that kills trust, and love– twisting and paraphrasing words to skew each others minds…You are welcome to join us at SG’s home tomorrow.
SG has a point and you have a point… No one is right or wrong. SG accusing BC is no different from what you have just said in your previous posting… Got to admit that SG has said some things that were pretty hard but this is only because everyone is fighting her. And same goes for SG… Do you think this blog would carry on if everyone didnt respond? I think we’ve all done our fair share….
Like I have mentioned in my previous postings, why are we wasting time fighting… We should find a way to bring Peace to this situation… We need to focus on Jeus and He will bring peace to the situation (Isaiah 26:3) …. Focus on Jesus not SG and not BC…. yes, the issues at hand might involve BC, CL, VL, TC, and whoever, but we’re losing focus on who really has the answer — Jesus!
So, come one come all to SG’s home… I know that she will welcome us with love…
Grace and Peace to all!
A pulpit could be any forum that a person preaches. A blog, a stage, a room, a phone. It was not meant to be anything other than what it looks like. And I do wonder what fruit people will be partaking from in the upcoming months. That isn’t “unChrist like” its pure curiosity and thought provoking. I include myself in all these statements. Just thought I’d clarify that.
Humbled by Jesus-
Dont you know curiousity kills the cat?
To Humbled by Jesus:
“Are we not all pastors and preachers to our families? Surely if SG is going to preach to all the people on this blog and talk to “so many” of the people at AFC, then shouldn’t you be held to the same standards as a pastor at a church? Or are the rules different because you aren’t at a pulpit? Seems to me this blog is your pulpit.”
Read the above statement ten times and tell me that you didnt write this with anger in your heart…. I understand what a pulpit is…. And it is very clear that you just wanted to make a point to SG. but is it really worth it? Lately, I havent seen SG writing anything because she’s invited everyone to come over to her place… This is a great opportunity to come together and unite as we should be… Because we are God’s children. So, I encourage you, SG, and the many others to stop this non sense… It is just pure UGLY….
Thank you Grace and peace for that link to the union tribune today… Just wondering, was it really Vince Limon they quoted saying He thinks Barry is not the Father? Sometimes the media be making up stuff… And why is it that when someone wants to know the TRUTH about what Happened, they are being attacked? Even if they ask about getting a DNA test? Everyone talks about SG attacking the AFC congregation and BC… But yet they all do the same thing to SG… I dont get that!!
Mr Humble – what if Barry is the Father? “I wonder what fruit you and the many others will be eating in the upcoming months,” I know one thing for sure, that Terri didnt leave because of the stress on the building, or stress on finances…. Terri is a woman of the WORD and her faith in the Lord is much stronger to stand those tests… She left because her husband committed adultery and that is the only reason she would leave… and that’s the Truth… wether you like it or not. Sorry- didnt mean to rain on your parade…
SG- Keep fighting the good fight sister…. There are so many of us standing with you… The Truth will come out, one way or the other…
To Just a thought-
My sister/brother- 2 things
1. I never posted a union tribune link on this blog… Please check your sources…
2. Come to SG’s home tomorrow… And please stop posting negative things about each other… Rather it’s true or not… The meeting at SG’s will be a great opportunity to let all this out and come together as the Children of God….
I would greatly appreciated if you correct the name that posted the union tribune link on here, because I am not part of that…
Thank you so much and have a bless day!
To Just a thought-
My sister/brother- 2 things
1. I never posted a union tribune link on this blog… Please check your sources…
2. Come to SG’s home tomorrow… And please stop posting negative things about each other… Whether it’s true or not… The meeting at SG’s will be a great opportunity to let all this out and come together as the Children of God….
I would greatly appreciated if you correct the name that posted the union tribune link on here, because I am not part of that…
Thank you so much and have a bless day!
Grace & Peace, Im sorry about that… I skip through things fast… I take it back… Thank you Days for posting the Link… Sorry Grace & Peace…
Okay everybody….I know the recent article has got everybody in an uproar. We all have questions and the answer lies in one single simple test. Barry, will you please take the test? If you cared about the flock, you would put an end to all this…..please?
I noticed that BC used the word I in his statements at least 8 times. There was no mention of regret, remorse, or sorrow for the 600 people who have left AFC. All the “pity” was for himself. This lack of concern for the body is really what has everybody mad at everybody else. Sure it is easy to “attack” the people speaking out because I or we are accessible. I’m sure that a lot of what is being said “at” me is really transferred frustrations coming from the fact that no real answers are being provided by the individual who needs to speak up. The reality is that 600 people believed that Cook is the father of Ricky. The older Ricky gets, the harder it is to deny the obvious. Vince has spoken to several people and shared with them that he does “believe” Ricky is Barry’s. He probably wasn’t sure what would be printed in the article and he doesn’t want to say the wrong thing. Vince doesn’t “know” that Ricky is Barry’s because Barry wouldn’t take a DNA test when Vince asked. Im sure Vince did not know what would be printed so he played it safe.
That is my observation. You don’t have to agree. But I don’t believe Sandi would have wrote an article is she didn’t believe in the merits of the situation. She is not a gossip columnist. She is a professional writer since the 70’s and her experience probably told her that there is more to the story than what AFC leaders are telling her. She did her duty to advise the public. Now it is up to us to respond publicily in a way that will bring resolution.
Please avail yourself to the meeting at my house on Saturday. I will speak for myself regarding any questions you have for me directly. But I won’t allow anyone to put the focus off of the real reason we are all here. I am not about nonsence and I don’t plan on shrinking back because of any preconceived familiarities.
You are all welcome guests who will be encouraged to speak up without fear of retaliation or intimidation or ungodly control and manipulation. We’ll do all things decently and in order, but their will be no box. Come to serve and to be served in humility and in the honor of the Lord. There will be no usurping of another and no presumed lording over. Period
Just come and be ready to love and to be loved.
God Bless you,
Crazy stuff… One comment made 2 contradict what u believe and u attack it’s validity… VL stating that he does not believe BC is the father… which is not the first time I’ve heard this… I’m sure if BC took the test and it came out negative… u’d attack the test’s validity.
No, I did not “attack” anything. I gave an observation. And so did another on this blog and on the SD Trib blog. The question came up and I responded.
This is what I was refering to in my previous comment about ungodly control and manipulation. No matter how aggressive you decide to get, you will not usurp another persons beliefs. People at my house will be allowed to speak and to respond without fear of retaliation.
Please come if you think you can play nice with others.
I’ve got things to take care of. So I won’t be blogging anymore tonight.
Hal and I love you family. We hope to see you soon.
SG, judging by the close proximity in time between your post and Glory is the Lord’s, I think he/she was not referring to your post, but the post where it mentioned whether or not VL actually said it and that they should check their sources. I’m sure she would not have printed it if she did not in fact believe that VL said it, though.
Yeah, I believe he said it alright…..just not sure why he says one thing to some people and another to other people….I should probably call him myself and ask him….
Sandi did an excellent job with the article. I don’t believe she misquoted anyone.
To In His Presence: It sounds like you’re wondering this same thing…..did he say something completely opposite to you? You were a leader for so many years. Do you believe Ricky is Cook’s son?
Good night.
To In His Presence: Please come tonight and prepare the way for deliverance. It is time to set the captives free. Bring the word of the Lord….the Bread of Life…
Taken from the Union Tribune Article from yesterday: In 2005, the same year Ambassador moved into its new two-story home, Carolyn Limon, a church office worker, filed for divorce from Vincent Limon, a former assistant minister. According to court records, a paternity test revealed that Limon was not the father of the couple’s young child.
Wow, if the court records are true, why did BC bash VL from the pulpit on 3/5/06 so bad and more importantly how and why would CL sit there and allow it to happen with out standing up and saying she was responsible for her husband leaving her. BC said that VL left his wife and children several times during that sermon, I believe he knew at that time that Ricky was not VLs’ child and now we all know that CL knew it also.
Proves to me that BC and CL had something between them that does not fit into any category of ‘spiritual covering’ in my book. Why would this pastor bash the male in the family for leaving and coddle the female without balancing out the story with her indescretions, if he was going to tell it publicly at all. BC told this as if CL was a victim of heartless no-good husband.
How devastating it must have been for VL to read the results from this paternity test, that the child his wife carried inside of her body for nine months, went through the pains of child birth with, a child he held in his hands, loved on, supported and cared for was from the seed of another man. A lot of men I know may have done more than just leave her. BC may not be the father but one thing is for sure, he don’t want to take the chance of proving that he is! He may not be the biological father of her child but he at least participated with CL in the cover-up of her adultery, the real reason her husband left her and the smear campaign of VL’s character and career.
This reporter did an excellent job of pulling back the curtain and exposing more of the truth. SG much love to you and your entire family, please keep us informed on the progress and release of your son’s book. I’m informing and taking pre-orders for my family and friends back here in the midwest already. You keep standing!
VL was never reached by the media read the article. Someone gave the reporter tha info. I have spoken to vl regarding the baby and he seems to think is barry’s. The Baby was concieved while VL, TC, an a group of ohters were on a mission trip to Jamaica. While BC an Carolyn where all left to their lonesome. Why is it Barry and Carolyn have been seen in parking lots alone, Why is they have been seen getting out of a Limo together on there way to North Caorlina. Who paid for the Limo and the trip. The Church? Come on the writings on the wall
To SG
Barry specificly told me that he was not the father of Ricky -he also told me that VL also said that BC was not the father. When speaking to VL, he does seem to believe that the baby does belong to BC. On a different occasion, BC told me that Carolyn had a one night with Brian Buffini (Buffini and Company in Carlsbad) -how is that to cover for his girl??? This was where Carolyn worked before she got pregnant and before she started working @ AFC. She started working @ AFC soon after she had the baby. I do have mixed feelings about BC being the father just because there are proven records of BC and CR coming out of airports into limos, that meant flying together, they have been spotted being together at malls, caught coming out of behind building’s parking lot (hmmm, I wonder what they were doing…) It is a very sad situation. A simple DNA test would solve the entire situation. It is so sad to know that Ron Williams has covered too much throughout the years for Barry. I think BC may have something on Ron W., and this is why Ron is scared to speak up. Sadly, BC told me some stuff about Ron when he backslid in the beginning of the church -how sad…Ron thinks that no body knows -but many do. Ron, you should come clean too in all of this. This will help the body of Christ move forward. And it will alleviate your new marriage too!
And yes, I know if Barry read through my comments, he knows exactly who I am. Barry just give it up and get right before your creature. I do pray you are completely restored.
Sorry, SG I will not be able to attend tonight, have previous engagement. Continue to Fight the good fight of faith! Release Love…Release Truth…Release Christ! Much love.
I meant to say bc get right before your creator.
To HG, yes those court records do exist regarding VL not being boy’s father. I have a copy of the divorce decree and DNA test. Vince is innocent. These records prove without a shadow of a doubt that there was adultery going on in the leadership of AFC.
Barry’s Cook’s strange bahavior ; soon following divorce; and the fact that the child looks exactly like BC convinced 600 people that the misconduct began at the senior level of leadership.
Barry, please come tonight and address these concerns. Here is the address:
1612 Rush Avenue
Vista, CA 92084
JM, are you Jessica Mitchum? If so, please come tonight and bring Spring with you. Sabrina and Abe, you welcome as well.
To my beautiful son Kenny,
One day soon you’ll be home and on your way to fulfilling your God given destiny. Even now I know God is speaking to your heart and showing you His wonderful love and grace. I am so proud of how you stood up before the judge and DA and confessed your wrongdoing. You took your punishment like a man and have conducted yourself with true dignity these past two years while in prison. Many have approached you with offers of position, yet you have stayed out of the fray. Mother’s day is tomorrow and I want you to know that I love you and that I am honored to be your mother. No matter how long you are away, 12 years or less, I will be right here by your side to give you the wisdom and courage to be the man God has called you to be. You are my angel and nothing will ever separate you from your mother’s love. More importantly, nothing will ever separate you from your Father’s love.
Come home soon, my love. Your community needs you………….your family needs you!
Thank you Susan for speaking the truth.
I miss my Freinds and family from AFC but they have all moved on and left. I spent many years serving in that church and have been left devastated and wounded.
I dont speak out of accusations or assumptions but I speak from knowlege and truth. I was not just a person sitting in the pew, I served in every capacity I could neglecting my children as I did. When I left I had to repent to my children for ever allowing them to be a part of such control and manipulation. I love the Lord but I have not been able to step back into a church sense I left that place.
VL was a great part of my familys life and we were devastated when he left, He is a good and honest man who was blasted from the pulpit. That pulpit is supposed to be pure and rightous but it is covered with blood and lies.
When I left AFC it was because I was branded and followed through the church as if I was the devil himself. RW would stand behind me when I sat in the service I couldent even talk to anyone without him appearing.
For all of you who have no actual experience in AFC then you have no right to comment to those of us who have and for those that are still there I was blind to. You have to step out to see the light.
Hi Once Part of AFC:
My dear friend, please come to the house tonight and let us love on you. We miss you too. We’ll get through this together. You don’t have to be afraid…you will not be censored.
The address is 1612 Rush Avenue, Vista, CA 92084. We are right next to VHS off of Bobier and Goodwin.
We love you……….
Thank you family for coming to our home. You’ve touched me in a profound way…..I see Christ in each of you……the Lord spoke through you all directly to my heart….you are truly living epistles full of virtue and strength. We will see true restoration in the house of God.
To the current members of AFC. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the folks who are calling on BC’s to repent to the ENTIRE church are following after the heart of God. This public rebuke that is happening to BC is not the hand of the enemy. Your public attacks against the people who are calling for BC’s repentance are working against you. If you continue to rail against them you will find yourself fighting against the hand of God.
Barry Cook, we emplore you in Christ’s stead…be ye reconciled to God. Repent before the Body of Christ. Do it quickly before real judgment comes……….please!!
Thank You SG and Family for opening your home up to the hurt and the hungry. You truely bore fruit of the AFC body we used to know. I only wish there were more current AFC goers that could testify of the spirit of reconciliation that was present. Thank You for being courageous enough to withstand the accusations that come with breakthrough believers. Be encouraged with a quote I once heard, “A hundred years from now, people will build a monument for you with the same stones they threw at you.” Stay humble and press forward!
Thanks SG:
Thanks for providing a platform for people to speak. For those of us who had to endure the spiritual abuse, lies, deception, and control for so long…this blog is helping so many get it all out. Everyone that attended AFC and left has been slandered, hurt, with no where to turn, or anyone to talk to. I’m sure all of us x-members has experienced this: Going into a store and seeing a current member of AFC. They ignore you like you have the plague, acting like they don’t even see you. So for so many, this is the first time we’ve had a platform to talk about things, to realize we aren’t crazy, bringing validity to our first hand experiences, just knowing you weren’t the only one. Thanks.
For the current members of AFC we still love you all, we’ve been in your shoes, so we understand the reasons your still there. We had the same reasons. We all just got a revelation that any type of abuse is ungodly and not to be tolerated. We know that God’s Kingdom is so much bigger than the walls of AFC. That our purpose in God is not contingent on the positions we held in that church, or the leadership we served under. It’s about the Kingdom! So, don’t get upset (current AFC members) when former members have something to say. We all know BC never bit his tongue preaching. He always said what he wanted to say…. very confrontational, lashing out in very controlling, hurtful ways to anyone he wanted to. Wounding many people who still can’t trust church leadership today, never apologizing or repenting to these people. It’s good to talk it out, so restoration, forgiveness/repentance can take place.
We fail to realize it’s not just the DNA test of the baby that needs to be determined so that “Little R” know who his father is/isn’t . But the DNA of AFC? Many babies, and children of God depended on BC, the Apostolic Father of this territory, right? To be a spiritual father, feeding us the Word of God, so we all can grow in Christ and take NC for the Kingdom. Take the DNA test both naturally and spiritually? It will only reveal the truth. Don’t abandon your post Man of God!
SG, I’m sorry but I am not Jessica Mitchum.
To All, I would like to know if there were any current members who’m attended only to hear your take. So far it sounds like it was just a time to “vent” for past members. I’m only sayint this because so far that is how it appears by the previous posts and would like to know how a current member was received?
Also, I urge you not to assume that everybody that is still attending or involved with AFC is being controlled or manipulated, which I assure you is not only a bold statement, it is incorrect. You would be assuming that others cannot hear God for themselves, which is also very bold and incorrect.
The people who chose to accept the public invitation came with a true heart towards reconciliation. Some of the attendees have not been in contact with each other for over 4 years. The atmosphere was full of gladness and joy to be re-membered to lost family members. We laughed, we cried, we asked for forgiveness, and we were healed. You see my friend none of this is about BC or AFC. The Virtuous Church is arising in North County. She has asked her once spiritual leader to come forward in truth for genuine restoration. He has refused.
We now ask that any of the 600 ex-members of AFC who want to be reconciled to their family to please come forward. We invite the ex-leaders to also come forward to help shepherd the flock of God. We don’t expect the hirelings to respond, but we are fully confident that the true Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers and Evangelists will take their place as God’s chosen leaders.
We will know the voice of the shepherd and the voice of the stranger we will not follow.
We have Kingdom business to accomplish. We regret that the current AFC leadership and congregation did not avail themselves to the invitation to be reconciled to the family. We love you and God bless you.
To JM:
As a former member of AFC I want to first say that I’m not against anyone but for the Kingdom. I am well aware that all current leaders and members are not being controlled and manipulated. And we realize that our words on these blogs can’t change what you think and see but it is only by the Spirit that eyes can truly be opened. I can only speak from my own experience and say that my years at Ambassador were life changing. I was equipped during my stint there. But I also know that at some point, things changed.
BC encouraged us to gain knowledge and understanding and not just to take anyone at their word. He was an avid reader and encouraged us to do the same. I would like to suggest to you and the “body” universal a book that helped restore me and see things a little clearer; “The Sublte Power of Spiritual Abuse”, by David Johnson
I am hopeful to see restoration come to the body in North County and wish Success to the Kingdom!
To Thanks:
Well Spoken! Some of us are not quibbling over the DNA of just one little boy, but some of us are asking, “Where’s our Daddy”
“Thanks” What you stated is so true. When I chose to take my family out of AFC, it had nothing to do with whether or not BC fathered Little R. But I have my opnion. When I was growing up my natural father was dysfuntional and things transpired that shouldn’t have. Since then, he has repented and we have been restored. Guess I am hoping for the same outcome with my spiritual daddy.
the reason that Ron won’t speak up us is because he has been caught in kiddy porn. Pluse that fact that he is gay. That’s why Barry didn’t let him do chrildrens church anymore. He has been caught a couple times. That is what Barry likes to do. Get dirt on you, and then you won’t say a word about him. It didn’t go good when I called him on his sexual relationship with other women in the church. Everyone thought I was carzy then the same people that were defending him, well he was sleeping with there wives. come on barry come out of hiding!!! Ever since we left that controlling church we have prospered so much. doing better than ever.
Gino
everywhre I post I put my name and I sent emails to Ron but he won’t answer. Come on barry ron and the other false prophets come out of hidding.
anyone know where Frank is??? I heard he left.
Hi Gino and C.
Oh wow, it is so good to hear from you guys! How are you?
FC is doing fine. He is married and has a beautiful little girl. Shoot me an email with you number and Hal and I will contact you back.
Are you still in SA?
We love you guys and always wondered what you saw that made you step down. You were BC’s right hand man for so long.
We knew something was amiss. Gino, man, we love you.
I’m troubled by a the attempt to connect with this situation through unbroken “soul ties.”
Husbands, you better stand up against this in your home. Your women can easily be seduced because of their need for “relationship.”
There are some woman out there right now who are causing division in their marriages because they are contemplating reconciliation with one man while they are neglecting and ignoring their husband’s counsel.
Men, rise up now before this silliness perpetuates all this dysfunction.
Girls, be careful. Do not go outside of the unity of your marriage to seek “reconciliation” with another man. Some AFC women put their marriages second to please another man in the past and it cost them a lot. Your first obligation is to your husband.
If that is not you than disregard, but if there is the slightest truth, do not move an inch forward without YOUR man of God that God gave you.
I humbly suggest that if this was done in the past, that you go to your offended husband and repent and ask for his forgiveness. Bring reconciliation in your homes for real. No more secrets. No more denials.
I love you. You know I do.
Hey Gino it is so good to hear from you again. You were so close to BC and I can only imagine how hurt you were at the things you’ve experienced. The closer you are to the top, the more you see, and the greater you are affected. You must have waited so long to see justice come to this situastion. However, I am concerned with your heart and the many offences that might be harborring there. I know when you left our families were really close but you chose not to disclose to us why you left. And as a result, our relationship was affected. Well I hope it’s back now. We have alot of catching up to do, I only ask you to be a steward over your heart. Tell C we said hello and Love and miss you guys so much. If you don’t know who I am tell me on this blog and I’ll give you a buzz!
Peter 3,
Wives in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that if any of them do not believe the word, they may be one over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverance of your lives.”
The word says that if you want to win over your husbands, you are to submit to them. Your submission to them reveals to them your reverance for God. The word did not say for women to show their husbands their reverance for God by submitting to another man, even a man of God.
No one should submit to abuse of any kind.
Husbands who are NOT sold on a particular church or a particular pastor maybe hearing more from God than what some wives give them credit. We are to listen to their counsel. When we think we can usurp God ordained order in the home and become the Holy Ghost for our husbands and for other husbands/men, we are out of order.
I make a request and ask that the mighty men of God come forward to lead the church.
As I write these messages, all of them, my husband is my head and my counsel. This message is from him as well.
who is “Still Standing”???? you can email me at giovanni@silestoneinstallers.com
SG I think christne gots you number. She told me she’s gong to call you today.
Here are some links to pics of Bobby and tory.
I know my comments might seem harsh. You should see my emails to Ron. Does anyone have Barry’s email??
I am not harboring any offences. Heck i’m just excited!!!! I have spent way too much on theropy. I must say this is more fun.
Here are some links of pics. It’s Bobby and Tory.
I know it might sound like i’m harboring offences but i’m really not. Theropy helped me with that. I’m just excited that the day has finally come. I have just been sitting back and watching.
Why now that BC has no solid proof he is the father, people are going to start attacking others at AFC? I think this is sad. It breaks my heart to think that the people who used to be part of this church learned that the only way to move forward was to badmouth people. Ok, so what if it is all true? Does putting a childs name on the internet make it ok? This innocent victim had nothing to do with any of it, and everyone has used this kids name to blast others having no respect for him. If it was my son, I would be filing lawsuits against people using his name to slander.
This is Christianity? Taking RW name and slandering him as well? I can’t believe the behavior I have read and seen. If the things that went on at AFC were so bad, why have you all chosen to recreate it all here like a soap opera? Defamation of Character, slander, I can’t believe what I am reading from people who are self proclaimed Jesus lovers.
I’m sorry, this really does break my heart. It hurts to see this, that even through everything everyone has been through, no one cares about anyone but their own anger and hurt. SG, though I may not aree in all your views, I do appreciate you keeping your comments minimal in regards to other people.
It’s hard to fathom why out of all the hurt, brokenness and anger that calling people out here that are not available to defend themselves is holy and Christian like.
We have all been formers of something. Through my walk I have dealt with addiction, abortion, and so many other things. But it would be hurtful for someone to turn around and use it to attack me because of the position I serve in. Is there no hope for restoration? No grace?
This really does bring tears to my eyes. We all have fallen short, I don’t understand why attacking BC now means going and attacking others at AFC. It moves from wanting justice to wanting blood. And I’m sorry, I really do think that is wrong.
To Humnled by Jesus;
I understand what you are saying. And I know that 2 wrongs don’t make a right, but what we are all witnessing is a product of not handling offenses properly in the body. It’s ulgy and will get uglier still because too many of us have been guilty of playing the “great pretender “and acting as if all is well instead of addressing issues that arise. Let this be a lesson to all of us to obey God’s word. In particular when it comes to offenses MATT 18:15-17 spells it out clearly. God is not surprised by none of this. There is enough grace for all parties involved to be restored. It’s up to the body of Christ to hold one another accountable so it never gets to this point. You feel me?
I understand what you are saying but do we continue on because of offenses that were not made right? If RW has some “secret” then before bringing it here shouldnt someone go to him directly? And I have to be honest, at this point, I wouldn’t want to talk to someone who had defamed my name on a blog or anywhere else.
So just because we didn’t do what we were instructed to do in Matthew, it gives us the right to turn to ugliness? It’s the by product of not handling the situation?
I agree we all need to be held accountable. But if you are no longer at AFC and have bad mouthed the leadership and the flock by saying everyone there is being manipulated, why would anyone want to talk to you about their accountability?
It feels like everyone wants people at AFC to be accountable to those that are no longer there. And my question is, why would anyone WANT to do that now? If there was a chance, surely now after all this the opportunity has passed.
I’m not here to defend anyone, and my heart is pure in my intentions, I’m saddened by all of this. It really hurts to see what could have been restoration and reconciliation turned into outright defamation.
The more I read, the more I realize that I need God so much more in my life. The way Christians treat each other is hurtful and the fact that people can say its going to get uglier makes the whole situation that much worse. Its like we don’t even care anymore about who we hurt.
This is just so sad to me.
First of all I never brought the name of Jesus into this you did. I never claimed anything but the truth. Remember Barry always said to tell the truth even though he didn’t. If they want to put a lawsuit against me, you go back and tell them to go ahead.
I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I kept my mouth shut and left. And sure enough Barry dug himself a hole he can’t get out of. You won’t silence me by a religious posting. I’m not stating lies just telling the truth. I’m not talking behind anyone’s back or hiding. I put my name on here so everyone knows who I am. I won’t hide behind a computer nor have people talk for me. I would tell Barry or Ron to there face. Matters of fact have them call me. I would like to talk to them. These people need to be confronted with there manipulation and lies. As for Terri, I would pay money to get a 30 min. meeting with her. Just tell me when to write the check.
You see when you publicly slander me from a pulpit. Pull me and my wife into a room separately trying to split us up so we don’t get married. Then you curse our marriage saying it would never last and degrading me. Yeah Barry tried to curse something he knew nothing about. In trying to curse my marriage he cursed his own. Now look where he is. We were not the only one he did this to.
AFC took out an ad in the paper of how they are moving on. I’m thinking about taking out my own ad on what Barry is really all about and the truth of AFC.
If you havfe a problem with this your in for a ride. This just scratches the surface.
Humbled, you addressed alot of issues let me see if I can cover them.
Yes, I do believe that RW needed to be confronted privately before bringing it on here but I think ginom said he did that. I don’t know enough about that to speak any further.
I haven’t said everyone there is being controlled or manipulated if you’re speaking of me, personally.
And when I say it’s only going to get uglier I am simply acknowledging the reality of the situation; there are no leaders (that i know of) stepping up to bring this thing to a peaceful close.
I can only speak for myself but I think the reason why former members are so concerned with the present situation is we know what not addressing issues did for us and don’t want to see the pattern repeat. We are the “body” ofChrist and we are all affected.
Former and Present members of AFC get a clue, WE ARE NOT ENEMIES, hopefully we all want the same end, Christ be Glorified!
I apologize for making the assumption that you are Christian.
My point remains, even if you want to think I am defending or not. It’s not about who is right any more. This whole situation has turned into something that I whole heartedly believe is not of God.
I’m not mad at you for your opinions or your truth, we each have a story to tell. I have my own. I just don’t agree with the way some people have chosen to handle the situation. I still believe that calling people, especially children, out by name here on this forum is wrong.
That opinion won’t change.
To Still Standing
I appreciate your honesty. And I agree, we are not enemies. Everything works out for the greater good. If anything I have learned a lot from people’s hurt and frustration. It helps me serve others and hold myself to accountability.
All I can do is change me, I can’t change anyone else. I love Ghandi’s quote “Be the change you want to see in the world”
I start with me.
i didn’t say I was not a christinian. I just not bringing God into it. even a nonbeliever would say what they do is not right. I don’t need to quote scripture for this because it is so obviouse they have made a mockery out of the church.
To Humbled, You written previously tha tyou don’t agree with how some have handled this situation, My question to you is how do you think, in your own opinion, BC should be handling this?
IF BC did in fact do what he is being accused of, then in that situation, he should hold himself accountable to everyone involved by confession. I believe that any leader that has committed this type of sin should make it public and repent. Again, this is IF.
IF BC has not done what he is being accused of, then I believe he should stand firm in his convictions, continue to pastor the church and move forward despite the opposition. And IF he took a DNA test and it proved he wasn’t the father, everyone who has demanded his repentance on this forum should personally apologize and ask for forgiveness.
I just want to remind everyone that even IF he wanted to do a DNA test, the mother of the child would have to agree to it also.
So, what then? If he says yes to a test and the mother says no, how can he prove his innocence?
We could all ‘if’ away the day – however the facts remain. BC has hidden his sin for long enough and now this blog is proof that the people of God are sick of the lies and want the truth to be settled once and for all. so here’s another one for you: IF BC is reading this, we are just asking you to please take the stupid test if you are so innocent. Dont you see how upset, hurt, angry, dismayed, etc etc etc the poeple of God are? You were supposed to be a strong leader and you failed us – plain and simple and now you are hiding from us. All any of us want is for you to come clean and be honest for once. Why this is so difficult is beyond me… All this could have been resolved years ago if you had done it then, deal with those who may have left then, and move on from there with those who didn’t. But now, you have gone too far and it’s all out on the board. If you don’t want the blogging to continue, just come clean, make a public confession, bring the paperwork of the DNA test and get this over with once and for all. Truth is much better to deal with and then all of us can move on. PLEASE just do it, BC. We’re all waiting – whatever the tests say, you coming forward and sucking up the pride for once and admitting to what you did do is better to all of us than trying to hide it all. We’re tired of shaking our heads in dusgust, embarrassment or shame when AFC is mentioned. We’re tired of all the drama. Please just get this over with…
Again, say he wants to take the test but the mother says no…is your mob going to go after her to make her do it? And, say he is NOT the father, are you not humble enough to admit that you could possible be wrong?
This is what I don’t understand. Some people are so adamant they are right. Is that pride? “So we can move on” is a DNA test really preventing you from fulfilling what God has called you to do? “If you don’t want the blogging to continue” as if this is all some sort of threat and he is being strong armed into taking that test. “We’re tired of all the drama” the only people making this dramatic are the people blogging about it. Why are you shaking your heads in disgust and embarrassment? Obviously, you chose another route so you didn’t have to deal with it any more. Is this about you? Or about restoring a church? Are you not proud of serving God or man at AFC? If your heart was to serve God and God alone, why do you care what people say about AFC?
I’m not trying to attack you, but your comments question the integrity of whether this is about anger and trying to back at someone or about serving God whole-heartedly.
So, again…the mother doesn’t have to do anything. She may say no to that test, then none of you would ever know. And it wouldn’t be his fault for not trying to tell the truth, but you would all cast him as guilty anyway.
Even if you hold him to a higher standard, we all receive the same grace we give.
“If BC says yes to the DNA and mother says no?!?” You are clearly laying out what BC and CL’s next move… So brilliant… I wont be surprise if this happens… Where BC will agree to the test, so everyone can quiet down, but little will anyone know Carolyn will be inform to say no… hehehehe….. Oh boy…
Also- I think you are taking what ginom said out of context…
Ginom I totally agree with what you say… 🙂
A DNA sample of the child in question already exists, it was taken during the divorce proceedings between VL and CL. This document is considered public record and can be obtained by anyone from the courthouse in Vista. I have a copy of it.
I am not saying anything that some people don’t already know. I was friends with CL and she no longer attends AFC. She has not made herself available for contact. And what sucks is that I have lost a friend because of all the bullying that everyone else is doing.
Obviously you have no idea what the rest of the 600 of us saw, much less what those of us in leadership know and saw on a daily basis up close and personal behind the scenes stuff that the common congregation had no idea was happening – like Gino said, it’s a lot bigger than you even know. There are a lot of people that have had similar situations like Gino’s – and much, much more that has gone unspoken. He went thru hell before he left the church and had every right to make his adult decisions as he saw fit. Meddling in people’s personal lives, however was another huge part of the control at AFC.
Actually I would love to see the cycles in Barry’s life stopped. There are too many hurting women and families now because of his manipulations. There are too many divorces because of his adultery. If Carolyn cared enough about herself and her son and was ready to walk with her head proud, she would also get this over with by demanding the test and the child support. But they are obviously working together to cover this mess up, but what they forgot is that things do come to light one day and this is the ‘days’ it is all coming out. Forgive those who are upset, mad, angry, hurt, venting on this blog, but God doesn’t hold it against anyone because of the truth everyone is trying to get to. THANK GOD for this platform to get our words heard. This situation is not over – and we are tired of asking over and over for the truth to be spoken out of BC’s own mouth. This is unfinished business for a lot of people. Obviously there are a multitude of issues that are unresolved and we are all sick of THAT part of it. We are just asking for a finality – to close the chapter on this part of life. Please everyone, quit trying to twist and turn this around using some religious statements or even scriptures to try to make everyone feel bad for stating the truth. There is nothing wrong with the TRUTH – Jesus was HATED for it. Please just stop picking apart the process and let’s get to the resolution!!!. And as brutal as what the truth is, it could all be ended, forgiven, and people allowed to move on once a public confession, and the testing and the sincere repenting happens – for both BC and Carolyn.
To Carolyn I would say, stop the cherades and get your son tested. You know who the father is and there is no reason to keep hiding. It’s out now – nobody has been fooled. Get the test, demand your son’s father also get it and be done with this irrational behavior. Ricky is too important as your son to deny this truth to be dealt with. I pity him 10 years from now if you don’t. His life is too precious to let this go. One day he will be old enough to demand it from you, don’t wait til then.
I really don’t understand what putting an innocent child’s name all over the internet is conducive to solving. I think people should just be prepared to accept that you may never get an answer, then what?
Just because there are court records made public that have DNA answers doesn’t mean that is the end all to BC getting one. There are still permissions and samples that need to be done in an effort to keep the integrity of the test.
Again, using an innocent child’s name here doesn’t show any kind of compassion, his life IS too precious, and you are using his mother to slander him and the unknown of his future. I think that is wrong. If I were his mother I would definitely take any legal action necessary to keep his name out of the media.
I knew a lot of former leaders over the past five years. Anyone without stain or wrinkle cast the first stone. So many people in leadership claiming to be so righteous because of the positions they held. Demanding what we could do for them and not how they could serve the people. Just because they were deacons and elders they got to behave different.
Don’t get me started on what I have seen. Adultery, deception, lying, and to think ONE man is behind it all is an outright shift of accountability.
If you are low enough to use a child’s name and trash it with the rest of the media, then in my eyes you have no integrity. It’s sad to see people step down to that level to make a point.
Point taken, please stop using this poor kids name. I love that little boy, and you have outright disrespected him.
We do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and rulers of darkness in high places.
The call has gone out for the men of this territory to rise up and prepare for spiritual battle. There is an army of thousands in this territory that are trained and equipped to tear down the strongholds, to fight for truth and righteousness, to advance the Kingdom of God and to proclaim the lordship of Jesus Christ.
I am not looking for a “daddy” … I KNOW who my father is, what I am looking for is a man of God to step up and take up what Barry Cook laid down, -the mantle of authority -that has been given to this territory. Men of God, the leader has abandoned his post.What I am looking for is the man on whom this mantle has been passed to.
I am looking for the leader of this army, a man that will walk worthy of the vocation wherein he has been called. I am not looking for a perfect man but I am looking for an honest man,a man who loves his family, a man who loves the family of God, a man who will not be seduced by the spirits of this territory, a man that is qualified to take up this mantle. I know that you are here. I feel it in my spirit.
I am looking for the Apostles, Iam looking for the Pastors, I am looking for the warriors. As I am writing this I am seeing the faces of so many men….. we are all linked together by the common bond of Christ…. where are my brothers.
Did we just hit a nerve??? Gosh! you sound like Barry
Nope, but no one else is protecting this kid.
To hunbled by Jesus….Who the hell are you anyways and how long have you been apart of afc. CAROLYN HAS YOU WARPED. I was freinds with her and VL before she was ever pregnant and freinds with them after the baby was born.
She is manipulative and you sound like you are under her spell.
I was there to see more then I ever wanted and its not about hurting the baby its about about healing the wounded. My children were devastated by this situation because they were close to VL and spent alot of time with that baby.
You dont sound so humbled to me but someone who is butting into something they probaly no nothing about.
And on another note …
I WAS ONCE BLIND BUT NOW I SEE……..
I couldent see clearly tell I was on the outside looking in. You should really try it sometime.
I 100% understand and agree in not using the babies name but in no way is CL an innocent victim here.
And the baby is not the only child being affected, I havent heard you stand up for the other child here who is old enough to understand whats up. And on that note what about all of our children who were raised in that church and taught right from wrong from that very pulpit just to have it defiled.
I support my husband’s comments 100%.
Mighty men the church needs you NOW!!!
Women, get ready to serve YOUR mighty men!!!
LET THE CHURCH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ARISE!!!
GOD ALMIGHTY…I HEAR THE SOUND OF THUNDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and why wouldent Carolyn want to do a DNA test??????????
If he is her Spiritual Father and he is innocent of the accusation at hand and she can help him, wouldent she want to prove it?
I was tought when I got saved not to ever put myself in a situation that would allow accusation may it be real or false come about.
The leaders I knew would drive al;one in a car with anothers man’s wife or a single woman if they were married. They would not come serve in the office if there was only one female presewnt and no one else.
This was Christianity 101
Why were BC and CL alone for hours, alone in his room in Germany, alone in his office, in her office, and found walking alone together in a private pathway after VL was gone. Why did he take her to appts? Couldent he have TC or TS for that matter help her if she was the poor greif stricken widow he made her out to be.
WHO PAID FOR THE DIVORCE??????????? Was it the Widows fund collection that was taken up? I know BC asked several Elders to pay for it and when they dident he took a collection for widows.
I THOUGHT YOUR HUSBAND HAD TO DIE TO BE A WIDOW…….
Well….I throwing a dollar to two at that one….
Pastors GT and AT…please call us. Hal’s number is 760.521.0166.
I never said CL was an innocent victim, in fact, I told her to leave my husband alone after a few things that I had seen. Don’t judge what you don’t know. But I pushed aside that and still befriended her because I cared about her, not because I was being manipulated. I still hold my own opinions about her, so please, don’t comment on things you don’t know, just ask I will tell you the truth.
My husband new VL long before this mess started. I’ve been around AFC for over five years. No one is throwing other names of children around on this blog. There is no need to protect them from the media. If it was happening, I’d say something about that too. But using this kids name to prove a point when he is too young to understand and has no one to defend him, is wrong.
Sorry to cause such a heated response. I say what i feel needs to be said. If it doesn’t then just ignore me.
Good morning.
To the leaders of THE CHURCH: I ask you to search your hearts this morning and comtemplate the word and teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ to go into all the world and preach the gospel; to make disciples; to heal the sick’ to cast out devils; to feed the hungry; to clothe the poor; to visit those imprisoned and so much more.
Many have sat under the banner of a teaching that said, Building Leaders to Impact Their Generation, Evangelize the Lost, and so on….
I must ask you, did you receive your mantle when it was given to you by the Word of God? If so, then why do you continue to mourn for yesterday and do little to carry out the great commission today. Were you truly birthed as leaders or as eunichs. ..hold on now don’t get excited….
I know it is hard to evangelize a city when you don’t have a church to send them to…well what about it, CHURCH.
If we are the product of 12 years of teaching regarding the Apostolic pattern of church growth, then we should be looking at each other and saying why not me instead of who is it…?
This uncertainity about our own God given capabilities is the perfect example of the dysfunctional fruit of AFC. If we can not go out and reproduce the Kingdom, then we were never brought up as leaders, but only clones and robots to build a man’s kingdom within the Kingdom.
Why am I saying this? Because the reality of the situation is that BC’s influence in this territory is over for a long time and maybe forever (if he doesn’t repent.) In the meantime, you and I have work to do. Sure we need to be made whole from all this dysfunction, however, we can assemble ourselves together under Godly leadership and allow God to complete the good work He started in each of us.
Again, I ask the leaders of the Church to come forward and call a gathering of the sheep. Stand up and be counted. You know who you are. It is not arrogance or pride that you should answer the call when the spirit of God leads you…it is obedience. And if you except, it will be the first and possibly the most humble thing you can do. Especially when you consider the circumstances.
Yes, we know who the leaders are not, but lets give the Spirit of God the opportunity to speak to His own.
who paid for the divorce AND who paid for hotel expenses in Carlsbad for BC and Carolyn? Where did that money come from? the OFFERING BUCKETS! I guess that money didn’t go to the building as we had thought, huh? foreclosure makes more and more sense now, doesn’t it? I hope the IRS does some heavy duty checking on the appropriate use of funds! THAT will be a BIG can of worms – according to my yearly giving receipts never lining up, now this, too.
Carolyn has a lot to think about. If she was smart she would realize that he will only do TO her what he did WITH her while he was MARRIED. And she would realize she’s not the first – she’s just the obvious one because she had the baby! so, she won’t be the last – such a pipe dream that women get caught into. The logical thing to do on her part is REQUIRE the test to be done and start receiving child support from back payments since he was born, til he turns 18, include braces, college, the whole works!! The little guy deserves THAT!
Funny BC preached about VL being the deadbeat dad, but in actuality BC HIMSELF WAS THE DEADBEAT DAD! and KNEW the whole time he was trashing VL that VL was NOT the father. That whole thing was a prime example of control – if he preached against someone, those of us listening would think he was awful, too and not dare ‘ask questions’… oooooops… a lot of us asked questions and found out the truth! There was no ‘widow’ but an adultress…
Still waiting for repentance, BC… still waiting… don’t you want this over so you can sleep at night without your conscience screaming at you? come on…
Who the hell do you think you are to write such things about RW? Do you feel more like a man now after insulting anothers manhood. Are you so perfect that you need to post crap about others? How would you like someone posting a blog about you like that?
Gino would not have posted the comment if he did not know it to be true. The thing you should be concerned about is this: if BC knew about this information and did not report it to the authorities, he could be in some serious legal hot water. All clergy, teachers, doctors, etc are bound by law to report any and all abuse of children. There is no “covering” this kind of criminal behavior.
I won’t tell you who the hell I think I am, I will tell you who I am. I am a man that attended AFC, was controlled, deceived, manipulated, spiritually and mentally abused and cursed by Barry and Terri Cook from the pulpit and in meetings.
Since I left that cult I have been freed, healed and became successful with the vision I felt was given to me. I have a loving family and wife. Not just building Barry’s cult vision and never raising anyone else do anything.
I have confronted Barry Cook about his affairs with church members. I confronted Ron Williams about his homosexuality and kiddy porn. Obviously nothing has changed. After I left, Barry was confronted from other members and Ron got caught and confronted again.
I never said I was perfect. I have done wrong many times. When you want to get behind a pulpit and preach the word of God but sleep with your members or other pastors wives, someone better stand up and say something.
When you want to tell everyone how to live and lecture them about the Bible you better make sure you are not looking at little boys on the internet.
Would you trust your wives or kids around people like that??????
You see I’m accountable for my family. That is who I’m over. Barry is accountable for the church, the body of Christ. Barry has put Ron over the church as a leader. So he is held accountable for them also.
No one would be posting anything if the Leader of AFC would come out of hiding and come clean. Yeah I’m talking about YOU BARRY COOK.
See I’m not Hiding I put my name on here. You don’t have to wonder about who I am. Everything I say I can back up. I’m not making anything up. Matter of fact I can get multiple people to confirm the truth I am stating.
Gino, we know you speak the truth.
Don’t even receive anything from the spirit of Jezebel that sounds like a threat.
We will not squelch the spirit of Jehu. This is what freedom sounds like North County. Your deliverers are present. We will destroy and bring down the strongholds of satan.
“If I have to choose between Righteousness and Peace, I choose Righteousness.” T. Roosevelt
THROW HER DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If what you are saying is truth, and you truly want to see justice, then why don’t you take legal action? Why bother posting media blogs about it? If justice needs to be served then do it, or stop talking about it. I mean, what legal justice comes from a blog? If you truly believe in your convictions, take it to court with your proof. If BC is the only one that allegedly saw him do it, then is it possible the only truth you speak of is what you heard? And if you did in face SEE him do it, then doesn’t that make you accountable to say something legally?
You are the only one saying “If” and you are the only one assuming that nothing is being done outside of this blog………and once again you are WRONG!!
Just checking, because it seems to me all the self proclaimed leaders who are accusing BC of doing nothing to bring people to justice, aren’t doing anything either. In the end God prevails. Always.
From a legal aspect, it would seem to err on irresponsibility to post something that could be used against the accuser in court. Accusing someone outside a judicial court system, doesn’t always look good on the prosecutor. Building a case through the media, doesn’t help your case.
But I assume, you know all this.
God is good, all the time.
Who said they were self proclaimed leaders? The Bible says we are leaders. Jesus Christ called each and everyone of us to lead. We don’t need your “thumbs up” to do exactly what we are called to do and fulfill. And just because you don’t like the fact that the truth about AFC and its gross ministerial and possibly criminal misconduct is being made PUBLIC, does not make you an expert on who is and who is not obeying God in this matter.
Not one person in the scriptures, who committed these kinds of sins against the church and did not repent, escape judgement.
We are bringing thest matters before the church and because BC refused to allow the church to bring these matters to him privately, we are publically calling him out on these many issues. And as long as they keep surfacing, the public has a right to know.
You call yourself humbled by Jesus, yet you continue to defend behavior that has even defiled children. You don’t even have enough humility in you to admit that this church is full of wickedness and perversity. Are you one of the many at AFC that is involved in somekind of perversity? What you allow you will tolerate!!
Thank God for the children’s sake, that people who really care about this community, are speaking out. Who knows how many kids are being sexually abused at AFC right now by known pedifiles. This isn’t the first time this has happened at AFC. There is a pattern and if you knew what you were talking about you would know that pattern exists. Go ahead and ask RW for yourself. And while he stands their trying to find his hat, ask him how many incest victims have there been at AFC…tell him just to give you a round about number. I’m sure they’ve lost track by now.
I think it is you that errs. You are to be ignored. Even addressing you gives the hint of credibility to your insane observations. You are only representing the current flavor of the week at AFC. Is it cherry or grape that you all are drinking this week?
To Seeking Truth, I agree with everything you are saying. No one escapes judgment. And the reason I said “Self Proclaimed Leaders” was because I tried making the point before we were all leaders, but some people argued saying that the leadership in the church was held to a higher standard…
I’m not defending anyone. I say again, if there is reason to believe illegal activity was done, then take it to the court.
And I can’t say that the church is full of wickedness and perversity. I haven’t experienced it, so how can I make a judgment on something I don’t know?
Unless by your standard I am being manipulated which seems to be a common defense when someone doesn’t share the same view as those who oppose BC and the crew.
And you are right, if I allow it I tolerate it, but since I have not seen it first hand and have no facts, how can I be judged as tolerating it?
If my kids were being abused anywhere, I’d want to know about it too, but I also can’t take the word of one person who has not shown substantial proof and make an assumption. Anyone can make a claim about another, but I have to do my diligence in making sure the claims are accurate. Anyone can point the finger, I’m just saying, SHOW ME PROOF…
And I think the flavor of the week for me is….lemon.
Hello Everyone-
I attended AFC a long time ago and left for other reasons… But when I left that church was on fire…. The spirit of the Lord was flowing from Left to Right and all around… From the Leaders to the members and to the visitors… It was just AWESOME… The mighty Hand of God was just working through the church and to the entire North County. One of the best things I remember was the “back to School” bash… Where everyone would buy school bags and supplies and just donate it for kids who were less fortunate… I remember when we went to a school and gave out school supplies for kids… And just seeing the looks on their faces….. It was just an awesome feeling – Glory to God.
However, after hearing so much that’s going on and my brother and wife left the congregation, I wanted to go see for myself…
On Sunday, Mother’s day- Me and My sons (Mark,2 & Josh,4) drove out to Oceanside to visit AFC… As soon as I walked in the door, tears came down my face… The sanctuary was just empty… There were about 100 attendees give or take… I personally wanted to speak with BC but he wasnt available… All I know is, those tears were tears of sadness… Because I didnt feel the spirit moving anymore…. And just realizing the fact that before I left there were about 800 members give or take, and now down to maybe 100 to 150 is not right…. It’s a clear outcome of something that is not of God…
Addition to previous note: Just a thought on an Odd and Strange Presentation this past Sunday….
The church had given out gifts to recognize some mothers during the service… There were two specific gifts that were given out… One was to the youngest mother in the church ( I think they said she’s 16 or 17) and then the mother with the most children received the second gift… I thought it was nice but awkward in a way… Some young mothers dont like to be recognize and put on full blast in front of 100 or more people- it was a little weird.
Hi Red Zone: I understand the sadness that you experienced during your visit on Sunday. Hal and I made a recent visit on a Thursday night and experienced the same thing. It was just so empty (or a better word would be void) of any genuine presence of God.
The few people there, especially on the pulpit, seemed desperate to make something happen. They don’t understand that the Spirit of God Himself is grieved about the unrepentant sin in the house of God. The whole thing is a crying shame that is for sure.
Yeah, we remember the good ol days too, but unfortunately they are gone. My hope is the people will rise up in truth and assemble together to continue the work. So many people are not sure who they can trust and in many instances there is so much offense between members that they just can’t see themselves co-laboring with certain individuals. I have to encourage these folks to remember that BC purposefully set many of you against each other to keep your loyalties to him. He preyed on people’s need for approval and knew you would despise your brother and sister to get his attention. It was a scam and it worked. Please brothers and sisters, lets not allow this division to continue amongst the body. We need to come together and repent and forgive as a body. Those of you that know this is true, please lets get together and work through the problems. We can do this. We are not a lost cause!!
SG, there are other posts on here that sound like you that use a different name. Do you always post with your name or your initials? Based on some observations, Seeking Truth could be you as well.
I was noticing the avatars on this page…(the little boxes with the designs on them…) and they seem to correlate with e-mail addresses. People who use the same e-mail address even if they change their name have the same symbol.
So imagine my surprise when I looked at some of the responses from Seeking Truth, like on 5/1/08 where there is an entire paragraph devoted to “SG” and what a great woman of God she is.
Or on 5/8/08 Where this person knows SG personally….
Could all of this be because it really IS SG posting?
Also, the tones of each “Name” are quite different. SG comes off very loving, “lets keep the flock together”, “we love you”…
Where as Seeking Truth uses the same sentence structure and promotes SG in the third person, praising and commending her (SG’s) actions. Then in turn uses hostility in some of her statements to people…
I wonder SG, who will you posts as today? Or will your avatar change now because there is something up with it?
Hey, if we are going to get technical about leaders and situations, I want proof, but I also want to make sure the people who are feeding me this information are legitimate.
If you have to use other names and personas to prove your point and build yourself up, you have lost all credibility with me that is IF what I am saying valid…also from a legal standpoint…well forget that part.
If I remember correctly I believe it was SG who tried to tell everyone to drop the suit. Then seeking truth makes reference to action being taken outside of this blog, who knows what that could mean.
I’m just making an observation…Don’t attack me, we are all “seeking truth” right?
A friend of mine gave me a book recently that was written by Paula White. I wanted to get some information on who this woman is and happened to find this blog. This stuff is crazy! I have had so many people try to convert me to their christianity and have never felt sincerity in any of them. Now after reading some of this, I know why. In my experience, when you are in a relationship that is hurtful or goes wrong in some way, then you get out and move on. Whether it be a working relationship, church, friendship, marriage, or whatever it may be. If you can’t let go, then maybe the one with issues is the person that can’t get over it. This SG person sounds psycho as hell. Some of the things you say and quote makes you sound like a witch. Damn, if you were all so hurt and done wrong, then let it go and move on with your lives. It’s like a marriage gone wrong. If you get divorced and leave are you going to continue bringing up everything that was done wrong to you and keep trying to get your ex-spouse to admit they did you so wrong. Get a life!!! In the real world, that is called freakin psycho! You need help. It’s no wonder I’ve never been able to convert to your so called christianity. With christians like you, who the hell needs enemies. If anyone should run, it’s me. Far, far away from you self-righteous christians. I guess I won’t be reading the book after all.
You really dont have any proof that “Seeking Truth” is SG…. Besides your lame excuse that SG and SEEKING TRUTH has the same avatar doesnt prove anything… Who knows, you might’ve posted as SEEKING TRUTH and put SG’s email to prove a point… SG did put her email addy for everyone to email her on this blog…. So, your claim against her is not good enough… If you can trace it to her computer, then that would be proof… But I bet that wont be the case… Just a thought! Let me try posting as SG….
hmmmmmmmmmm
Does this make me SG?
get the drift… besides- change your name because aint no where on your posts indicate being HUMBLE…
God blessed us with a sense of morality to choose… You choosing to stay with the world is not of anyone’s fault. It was simply a choice…
Like I said it was just an observation, and how do I know if it is or isn’t SG? Those comments posted neither approve or deny. Everyone wants to be right, and the moment someone questions the integrity, people get mad. That in itself speaks volumes.
I never claimed to be right, never claimed that I had all the answers, I have stayed with my IF comments and Maybe’s because no one can prove anything on here. All of it is hearsay, show me a document, a picture, a video, a web history from RW’s computer…ANYTHING….
I don’t CLAIM anything against anyone. I just know how the avatars work, and so it was a little strange to me. Arguing with such defensiveness is a little much don’t you think? Especially when all I am doing is asking a question.
And currently there isn’t much integrity in what anyone is saying…and why is that? Because I’m still asking for RW PROOF which no one seems to have. Unless of course its in a secret hiding place…nothing is surprising any more.
How does anyone know that I haven’t done my own research? Aren’t you making assumptions by saying that I am choosing to stay with the world? Isn’t that a judgement? You could have at least said IF or MAYBE…
I think this whole mess shows that no one on here can be HUMBLE, LOVING, FOR THE KINGDOM, myself included…know why? because everyone has an agenda… Take down BC, take down RW, throw CL under the bus, and her kid.
Start your own church, put your own flock together. Then you could do everything the way you see fit. That makes sense to me, Lord knows with all the ex AFCers, they need a place to go and be restored. I’m pure in heart when I say that. I know people have left for a variety of reasons, I know some people were done wrong by leadership, and I am talking about leadership that is no longer committing offenses as well.
I am one of those people that were hurt in this whole process. I am wounded too despite all the remarks made to me about being manipulated and tolerating behaviors.
I know I need restoration, but don’t count me in at going to SG’s house. Reading this stuff is enough, I don’t want to be around it naturally.
So, in the end, we all need grace and restoration, I myself am included in this process. Just because I have a different view about what restoration is and how to restore others, doesn’t mean I am against anyone. Shouldn’t we all be working together to see this in each other? Pointing fingers takes us all off the purpose of being Kingdom focused and becoming world driven. Justice is only justice if you can prove the allegations with factual documentation.
This week I am grieving. Seriously, I am taking time to mourn for what has been lost so that I can reposition myself to move forward in the call that God has over my life. Not the call on AFC, not the call for BC, the call that has been put on MY life.
I hope everyone has had a chance to endure this process. I am coming out on the other side. So, no more blogs from me. By moving forward I leave all the offenses done behind, God ultimately is the judge of everyone…Leader or not. You all fight the good fight.
I will fight in the field as well, though my energy will be to bring those that the devil has bound and don’t know God to freedom and deliverance. Blessings to everyone, its time to rise up people of God, be a voice that promotes peace, love and unity.
I can appreciate people’s opinions, I’ve learned a lot and truly, I am humbled today.
why was carolyn on payroll for a year after she stopped working at the church. Some one has a sugar daddy. why wasn’t a payment made on the building since october when as of december there ware enough funds in the special account.
correction…………….. the last payment was made in august and as of december funds were available
Correction to your post- the following statement was meant for UNBELIEVABLE….
“God blessed us with a sense of morality to choose… You choosing to stay with the world is not of anyone’s fault. It was simply a choice…”
i agree with Humbled about the avatars. i actually noticed those about a week ago and was very close to making a comment about it on a number of occasions. it seems that if you go to other blogs on wordpress and use your e-mail it uses the same avatar.
go to this link and scroll to post 69 and something will look familiar
http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/randy-and-paula-white-to-divorce/
to the person that posted 5 times, twice using SG’s avatar, you only substantiated Humbled’s point by proving that SG could have very easily posted as an alternate identity. so, I and anybody with common sense, would naturally believe that she was doing that. don’t try to shift it off on somebody else… we know it was her. before last week, there were no avatars, just empty boxes, and so, using the same e-mail didn’t matter because there’s no way of identifying them… another thing… I would not be surprised if the person who has not put a name but kept coming against Humble’s posts (yes, the same person I just mentioned above using SG’s avatar twice) was in fact SG after she realized the very same avatar situation that Humbled pointed out. i noticed you appeared after the avatars started showing up, since your fist post was on 5/12, it seems very likely SG realized her chance of getting caught and created yet another nameless identity. Also, if she was not posting as seeking truth, why didn’t she make a comment about the same avatar, I mean, it’s very obvious that it’s the same avatar. By the way, the e-mail was not used only as “seeking truth” but also to “hey MO and SK” and “hey SK” even though she didn’t put her name, it was easy to find her based on the previous link I posted, and figure out who she was , so why try to hide who she was any longer. but i do commend her, hal, sabrina and gino for putting their names to their posts.
also, we already know that Hal Guinn used the same e-mail address as SG because the avatar was the same and he put his name. Why be “seeking truth” then himself then “seeking truth” again. yeah, I know what you’ll say, the avatar is different, and the first time it’s seen, so this is somebody that’s already posted. i have. i posted on 5/8. also, i am not “Humbled” and if they do try to say that I am you Humbled, I’m sorry, only trying to offer you support. You know this is not you, so know that you are commended in your stance for love, grace, unity and most importantly, the Kingdom.
Humbled, I have appreciated your refreshing perspectives on these attacks towards AFC. whether you attend still, or not , I’m just pleased to see that you are trying to grow the kingdom, instead of tearing it down. some are happy that the church lost it’s land. they’re celebrating more than if the Main Attraction got shut down. oh well. continue in your faith Humbled and know that you are commended for your stance, as well. God Bless!
i also wanted to mention that SG is not the only one… “Still Standing” was also “Full of Hope”, it just removes the credibility of anything that was posted by some of these folks. so, have fun at your own party. 😉 God Bless!
Who knows you probably made your last post as Humbled by Jesus with a different email address, and now you are “I AGREE WITH HUMBLED”… But who knows right… And for your information- I am not SG… I think SG would’ve had better words for you… But just by reading my comments, does it sound like SG? You are an idiot for thinking that… Get a life and stop defending your stupid avatar argument… How in the world did it shift from BC’s dirt to avatars… Change your name to AVATAR EXPERT… besides, its not just SG posting on here.. or Hal or Sabrina or Gino…
Lupe Thompson
Man this is great… I appreciate people coming out and stating that there are OBVIOUS errors in what people are posting…
Isabel.
It takes the integrity out of the posts…and Lupe, are you really a Christian? It shifted from BC to the avatars because if people are going to post about criminal activity then don’t leave behind the possibility that what is being said has NO credibility.
Again, WHERE IS THE PROOF?? Where are the pictures of BC and CL together in seclusion? Where is the web history of RW and his alleged scandal? Where is the video? Where are the documents? Stop talking about it, SHOW ME…
Otherwise, its all a bunch of hearsay and gossip.
I thought your BLOGGIN DAYS ARE OVER… make up your mind foolio…. And dont sit there and judge me- who the hell do you think you are- Mr Perfect?!? or Mrs. Perfect??? Besides, dont mention my name if your hiding behind “humbled by Jesus”… I only listed my name because some people think Im SG… So, you were just waiting for someone to hold your hand and stand with you… Sooo pathetic… Well, my “BLOGGING DAYS ARE OVER”…. just for today… hehehehe… peace!
To “Humbled by Jesus” a.k.a “I agree with Humbled” – Leave a message and ill check in tomorrow.. bye!
Thank you for your graciousness.
And, I did sign my name previously.
Last note: Go back and read all my posts to see if I ever mentioned anything about RW’s criminal activities or BC’s and CL’s lies… Hint: “if you cant find my postings, compare the avatars…. you’re good at it… ” take a look….
SO, did you find anything in my postings referring to any criminal activities or adultery and things of that nature?
That’s what I thought… So dont come at me when you know very well that I never said anything… And I only asked how it shifted from BC’s dirt to avatars, because that’s all I see on here…. Is people blogging about BC’s lies and people standing up to cover BC’s lies (for example: Humbled by Jesus; Agree with Humbled by Jesus; etc.)
Is it Isabel or Jezebel???
i knew you were going to assume I am Humbled but you’re wrong. don’t worry, i’m not. and of course the validity of these posts need to be brought into question. like people have said, it’s easy to stand behind one name, or another on a post, or in some situations, multiple names. but, the validity of these posts are brought into question when it appears that someone is posting as many people to support one side of the story. it changed from BC’s “dirt” when the “dirt” on this blog got exposed as one person posting as many different people. there’s no disrespect for Scott, I hope he continues to let this conversation continue, only because it’s a shame that it’s come to this. pretending to be two or three different people on a blog. Humbled brought up a good point by saying that a person with the same avatar said that they know SG personally… i wonder why. come on now, get off it. besides, having known AFC and it’s members for years, who are you?
and back to the comment about this being about BC’s “dirt” I think the title of this blog is something like “Paula White Blames God for Her Divorce”, not “Let’s create a blog so those that can’t get past their situations at AFC can vent to the world and assume that they are all right and everybody else that differs from their opinion we will attack them and throw them under a bus (a modern day stoning but without the death)” again, this is not about BC’s dirt, it was created about Paula White. yes, they’ve had a relationship with AFC but in the past, not anymore. when was the last time she or Rick Hawkins preached at AFC, years ago.
we’ve seen so many people attacked on here that it’s almost sickening. how about this? why don’t we find all the faults in your life and i’m not saying you personally but i’m saying, everybody on this blog, past and present and air them on a blog and let everybody demand a repentance, not to God but to man.
how would we ever know that you’ve repented of your sins and moved on. if i see you talking with SG on the street, am i to assume that you all are spreading gossip, or could you casually be having a friendly conversation but now my preconceived idea would make me think you’re coming up with a new way to come against AFC. remember, AFC is a body, not just one person. you can’t possibly know that everybody there is choosing to be their because they’re controlled or manipulated. oh, and another thing, just because you attend a church and it’s not 800 people anymore, you think God ain’t moving????? how is that for religion????? just remember, it started with 12…. and i’m not talking about AFC.
i’m so sick and tired of this… some of you have had therapy from leaving AFC… i’m gonna need therapy from this blog. plus, with the spirit that everybody attack, when i do move from AFC, yes, i know i won’t be at AFC forever…. where the hell will i be going to church after all this. there’s so many people who have a vindictive spirit and attack on such a personal basis i can’t see any forgiveness. forgiveness would not try to rub other people’s dirt on them after they got washed by the blood through repentance. i’d almost rather stay in AFC just to avoid you weirdos. at least i feel loved and accepted and people that believe the best for me and believe in the Christ on the inside of me. i don’t see that coming from everybody else… and now myself included.
but again, it’s been shifted, you want to say that i’m Humbled, which I’m not. as obvious by my post, right? all i was trying to say was that the avatars bring into question the validity of all 300 something posts on here now, with the exception of the few that named themselves.
and i’m an idiot. but at least i was trying to be christ-like. trying to represent love and be nice about everything. at least i don’t sit around attacking everybody else posts, oh wait, until now, it was just Humbled you were coming against. i was only saying that i noticed the avatar situation too, and agreed with Humble’s observatiions. don’t you think it’s hard enough for the folks of AFC to get through this as it is…. oh and they will get through it.
for those i’ve upset or offended by my statements, i’m sincerely sorry, and apologize and ask, plead and implore you for your forgiveness. i repent to God for anything that i’ve said that is not in agreement with His Word or His Will for my life. I am a wretched sinner and have fallen far short of the Glory of God but i’m thankful that you loved me anyway, sent your only son to die for me, knowing that i would be such a terrible and corruptible person. please Father, bless all those who are represented on this blog, and even those who have read this but said nothing, and all those involved. in your awesome love for us, you died for each and everyone of us and gave your precious blood that we may have the awesome opportunity of spending eternity with you in heaven. in the future i ask you to help me to control myself and i know that even as i say this, i have the opportunity to not hit the submit button and i will do it anyways because i’m certain or even hopeful that some people may read this and find it helpful or insightful into something that may help you grow your kingdom. God Bless!
You are most welcome…
did i ever stand up for BC’s issues…. nope. and while i was typing my last post, it’s obvious that the conversation continued. proving only that the attacks get personal. “Isabel or Jezebel?” thanks for validating my point. and this is my point about it getting ugly. this is why God advises us not to take issues that belong in the church into the public media because then, the unsaved, who have no issue with attacking, no matter what side they are on, do it in a manner that does not represent Christ. however, with a statement about Jezebel, it’s safe to assume, you know something about the bible, anyways. not an attack, just an observation. God Bless!
oh, and SG, please don’t hide by coming out with a post about how blessed your house is. like you have been saying to BC all this time… just come clean. something you haven’t even done on here yet. come clean and admit it. God blesses those who are honest and truthful. admit that you’re posting as multiple personalities. it’s okay, we’ll forgive you. we accept you for you and allow God to work in and through your life. we’ll believe that you’ll be restored.
To Avatar Expert-
Feel better?!? Give me your address and Ill send you an award for your observations… Bravo!! 🙂 * yawns….
“God blesses those who are honest and truthful” — I like that…. By the way, I would like to come out this Sunday at AFC- care to join me?!? Let me know… 🙂
not really, you seem like those type that I wouldn’t want to attend church with in the future. leave AFC to their mission and what they’re doing, and we’ll see all of you in heaven. they don’t need people who attack like you do. i don’t need awards either, mine are being stored up in heaven.
i might actually feel better. two more posts to try and bring me down or to shift the situation but again, your personal attacks mean nothing to me. but, i noticed you’re no longer disputing the avatar explanation. so, i would like to know what SG has to say about it… but then again, maybe you’re SG under an assumed name. who knows, right?
i will only stand until this is addressed:
quit creating posts as different people.
move on with your life and truely leave things in God’s hands.
stop with the personal attacks, but if you’re not a christian, then that will be hard to do.
ultimately though, all of this is now a wash. we don’t know for sure who is who and what is being said by who. from here on out, it will be hard to know who is really posting. we can’t take anybody’s word for it now… especially not SG. sorry, but the credibility has been brought to light. God Bless!
To I agree with humbled by Jesus.
This is so funny defending our avitars. Well to explain our mix up, I am the proud husband of Still standing so we share the same computer. When I realized that our posting would have the same avitar I signed in under a different e-mail. This is hilarious and proves why I didn’t use my name. People have a tendency to get off the main point and make it personal. Hope this particular mystery is solved.
Full of Hope, i can understand, in your instance, the mix up. however, in SG’s case, it’s not a mix up, it is blatant. that’s why I didn’t go into detail about yours, only the blatant ones. I also agree about the personal nature of the attacks, and you can see I quickly became one of those getting attacked. I tried not to get personal either and felt I had to stand for myself when they did come. thank you for clarifying your situation. however, this whole thing is off the main point, as I stated above. this blog is about Paula White, not a former AFC venting session. like I said, this is pretty much a wash now. no credibility for SG in my opinion. God Bless!
To the all knowing “avatar expert” Would you like to see proof that on 5/15/08 at 12:50pm both my wife SG that is Susanne Guinn and myself were at work, neither of us have been in the same city as our computer and if you look back over this blog you will find that Susanne has never hidden her identity from anyone ,SG has always been SG
Maybe you should change your self given title to “avatar novice” because your obvious attempt to discredit SG by pointing out a silly picture on a screen holds no merit whatsoever.
Would you like me to post using my name but have a different avatar appear?or post under a different name only to have “our” avatar appear?
BTW why do you post under a name that is not yours or did your parents actually name you Avatar?
Who am I?
no, i was not named avatar but much like Full of Hope, i KNEW my post to support Humbled and validate Humbled’s post would draw criticism and attack. that’s fine. and, if you had read correctly, the avatar is not based on a computer but an e-mail address. shoot, my last post was from a phone. i know the one at 12:50pm today was not SG, it was the person before and after those posts, so hold onto your proof. i’m not even asking everybody to post their actual name. i’m asking people to stop posting as alternate identities, which SG had obviously done. that’s all. we can choose to name ourselves on this, as we want, but we shouldn’t have to post as different identities to post a comment complimenting ourselves. that’s creating a false report. and now that it’s come out, it removes the validity of all the posts being posted, even mine. i know SG has been SG, with the exception of these two today. however, SG has also been other identities. sorry Hal but it’s true. again, all this is a wash. God Bless!
Hey Avatar shoot me your e-mail address so I can make your silly picture pop up.
Step up your game a little will you. And in case you can’t figure out who posted the comment at 9:41 suprise!!!! It was me……. HAL
Full of Hope you are indeed my B.F.A.M!
don’t need to step up my game. you’re showing how somebody that opposes you is subjected to personal attacks. thanks again. God Bless!
I can tell you without hesitation or reservation that Susanne is not posting on this blog under any name other than her own. Sorry to burst your bubble. She is secure enough in her own identity that she doesn’t need to create some alter-ego to validate herself. …… Keep digging…
Hey everybody Susanne just called, she is on her way home from a motorcycle ride with her boss so I’ll see you all later.
i point out the personal attack calling me a novice and my silly picture, which i have no control of, unless i use a different e-mail. so, then you decide to say that it’s not her but somebody else using your guys’ e-mail. well, then instead of attacking me and my points, simply ask the others to use their own e-mail address. but something tells me you felt you had to defend first. why is that? so people chose, at the same time, to use your e-mail to post as somebody else? i mean, wouldn’t that be more “loving” than coming against those who point out these facts?
so people chose, at the same time, to use your e-mail to post as somebody else? that doesn’t make sense. it’s all a wash now. however, our point has been proven, credibility is questioned here. have fun at your party, it’s a wash. 😉 God Bless!
Hi everybody. Wow, what a fun evening I had. It was a beautiful night riding my great big 1450cc HD down the 101. We had a blast!!! I AM TRULY BLESSED!!!!!
Hey Avatar, do you really believe that I don’t have any family or friends that would use my computer to comment in support of me (because they actually know me). and trust what I am doing and why I am doing it? Are you really trying to paint me in a corner by characterizing me as a lone ranger or an “island unto myself.” Nice try there big guy, but you are so obviously upset about the call that has gone out to the church to assemble. Don’t worry about the small stuff friend. There is plenty of evangelism that needs to take place in this county. How about you come together with us and help us to bring genuine revival to this territory. You do got ground game, right?
Hey family, who wants to get together on Friday or Saturday? Lets have some fun and celebrate the fact that the Church is forever victorious. Don’t worry about who might show up. We are family.
One more thing Avatar, we love you!! Be blessed!!
Whats up doc?
Beep Beep!!
Hey Trixie, have you seen Chim Chim?
🙂 good night family.
again, it’s not a computer thing, it’s an e-mail thing, as already shown. so, if they did use your computer, they wouldn’t need to use your e-mail, would they? i mean, everybody has at least one e-mail, some two or three. home, work, business, etc.
also, just because i’m not at your church, or your meetings, or your house, or your side, doesn’t mean i’m not about kingdom business. trust me, i am. i know how much this region is hurting, i know how much revival is needed, i know how much this region needs God. you talk about the church being victorious, but you’re aiding the division. just my thoughts. there are a number of churches that have called AFC during this time with support and love, not practically dancing around the building that it’s being lost. there’s been those that are still at and that have left the church that are offering love and support. so, keep assuming it will fail because it will not.
i’m not painting you in a corner, i supported Humbled’s observations, and that’s all. why? do you feel painted in a corner?
who’s revival are you talking about? i don’t want part of your revival. it brings the same spirit that this blog has brought, vindictive anger and hatred, attacks, and division. that’s not a revival i would enjoy.
sorry to say that but that’s what i’ve felt by reading through this. i see a day where division in the church is abolished, love reigns, Jesus moves and touches the lives of millions in this region, many are called into the body of Christ. but it’s not happening here on this blog. 😮 God Bless!
i won’t attack you, i’ll just say that you’re validating what’s been said here today. God Bless!
oh, and the fact that i’m sure that Scott appreciates you using his blog to post senseless posts like that. i can act 10 years old too…. Scott it was them, not me. God Bless!
No I did not validate anything you’ve said. When this site appears on my screeen, my email address automatically appears. The various users did not change the email address. Why can’t you just admit that you are wrong. Many people have shown you that you are wrong.
When someone comes to your house and uses your phone, your phone number is seen on the other end on the caller id, not the callers personal number. It is automatic. Same goes with this particular blog. The email address pops us all by itself. It does not have to be entered every time. So my point is this, you don’t really have a point. Only a far fetched idea that seems like a desperate attempt to discredit someone that you view as a threat of somekind.
I don’t feel painted into a corner. I feel that you are trying to make a point that really doesn’t change anything about the real issues. Maybe it is you and the people at AFC who feel painted into a corner because no matter what you do or say the reality of the condition of your flock is not changing. At some point, you will have to admit that and when you do or when the leaders do, maybe repentance will come more swiftly.
I’m sorry you feel so attacked by people who are not buying this whole avatar conspiracy. You need to accept that this isn’t an issue with anybody else other than you and humbled. And we can all understand this desperate attempt to undermine the credibility of someone that you are blaming for your current state.
The person responsible for the state of AFC, is BC and BC alone. I know without a shadow of a doubt that if he would have repented a long time ago and apololgized to the congregation, the public would have never found out.
Avatar, you may have the last word. But know that we will continue to stand for righteousness in North County.
Good night friend.
Excuse me, but I would not want to be a part of a “revival” that promotes fornication, adultery, divorce, abuse of spiritual authority, numerous accounts of incest and even rape, underage and unwed pregancy galore, cursing from the pulpit, cursing of people’s marriages, mismangement of finances, foreclosure, and the exodus of 600 parishoners while the leadership continues to speak out in denial of any wrong doing or responsbility. Divison……I think AFC has the market on causing division in the church……….
Sorry, you brought it up. Oh, thats right…you were not attacking me……my bad!!
This message is for everyone else.
It is regretful that a simple thing is being used to bring reproach to the stand that we are making here. I do apologize for this “appearance” of impropriety. Now that I know that an Avatar can cause such an offense to some people, I will ask any other user of my computer, who is not a member of my family, to use their own email address. It just never occurred to any of us that anyone would get so offended by a little picture, but these are the times that we live in.
I can say this, that this is the worst thing that anybody will be able to use to discredit me and for that I give God all the glory. He has kept me secure and whole for many years and I have not had to resort to any kind of immorality to date. I have not cheated on my husband; I have not stolen money; I have not allowed unrighteousness to permeate every area of my life. I’m humbled by Jesus’ perfect plan of redemption and I thank God for his continued grace and mercy.
I hope that everyone will take the time to read the post linked above by Avatar. Post 69 date 10/2/07. It is pretty “ironic” what I posted and how this Avatar thing is being used to confuse the real issues. Please read it and tell me what you think.
For sure for sure, I’m going to bed now. I’ve got a great big weekend coming up. I’ll be at the Escondido Fair on Sunday. Come out and visit. We are the one with all the beautiful clothes. Ladies I promise you’ll find a great bargain. Call me for more info if you want.
Such a shame that this is what its coming to. We all have our own veiws and perspectives. Different people will see things in different ways. There are several veiws and angles depending on the eyes you are looking through.
The truth of the matter is that the loss of 600+ members which included Pastors, Eldors, Deacons, Armor Bearers, and many more means the MAJORITY RULES.
How many remain in AFC?
Im not putting anyone down because they are apart of AFC and I commend you for standing up for your church and said leader BC.
BUT as I have said before I was once blind but now I see. I dident see clearly tell I decided to take a few weeks away from AFC.
I keep ready how people are saying where is the truth and who has seen them alone together. And my answer to that is if there was no proof do you realy think that all of his top leader’s, Elders, Deacon’s and many more would leave? Would his wife who was one tuff cookie just leave with no proof?
I personally saw them on a private walk, have seen them alone for hours in the counseling office in the old building. Why would he take the baby after every single service to his office but not his own daughter?
My point is that there is so much proof out there that it has caused a once great body of people to scatter.
There are so many more secrets that have not even been touched here…….And they dont need to be, the people calling for repentance are the ones who were behind the closed doors and seen more then have been shared here.
So if you have no personal knowlege of this situation then stay the hell out of the koolaide………….
alot of you need to grow the F87K up already and stop fighting over stupid aviators.
SG is right in calling forth repentance from a sinning brother, HELL we learned it from a once past spiritual father …….HELLOOOOO
All talk and no proof…what else is knew? Still waiting on documentation, photos, web histories. Who cares if you are discredited or not? NO PROOF all talk. Show me something on paper with your signature on it, and you may have a convert. Until then, you are just the same person posting under different aliases….
Proof Proof Proof Proof, let’s hear it…the subject continues to change…and still NO PROOF…Just what people allegedly saw…c’mon, where are the pictures of BC and CL hidden in seclusion? In a bed together? Where are the web histories of RW and his scandal? NO PROOF.
You all lack credibility. May God’s Kingdom prevail. His PROOF is TRUTH. He didn’t hide it…
There is no confusion. Your email address was used for whomever posted under your name. The fact remains that none of us have seen integrity out of you SG with PROOF to substantiate the case that these aliases are NOT you….
Maybe if you had FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION OF YOUR ACCUSATIONS, this whole avatar thing wouldn’t be that big of a deal…
For the last time, still waiting on PROOF…And you have yet to address this…hmmm, I wonder why???
God is good all the time…
May the church of the living God move forward. I encourage you SG to start your own church. No joke, you have the heart of many who have left. It may be a good place to start.
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord in a church we believe in.
The real issue is PROOF. FACTUAL DOCUMENTATION, REAL PHOTOS, and since it has not surfaced, has been confusing for me.
WOW my God WOW
You seem to get your nerves rattled often……
I am in no way SG to set the story strait………..I havent seen her or spoke to her sense she left AFC.
600+ people there is your proof. When I was serving in that house I was blind, why would I have taken photos? I trusted the man of God that I once called my spiritual father. I was tought not to question but toi trust God.
You really need to take a break from this blog. You have nothing new to add and you are just getting angry because you have no PROOF that all of this is not true.
My previous message holds alot of weight so just deal with it and move on.
validation is coming in the way of your actions and the spirit of your posts. mockery and contempt are a couple of words that come to mind real quick. it’s not the words you speak all the time but the manner/spirit with which they are used.
others using your computer which already had the information in the boxes…. i knew that one was coming too. so tell me, when i sit down at your computer to post on this blog and i see your name and e-mail address in the spaces provided, why would i change the name but not the e-mail address? i’m not discrediting you, just the credibility of the posts, and who is actually posting.
the real issues of this blog are not AFC, the real and original issues of this blog was the situation of an interview that Paula White had done on tv. i’m sure the state of AFC is quite fine. by the way, since you don’t go there anymore, what concern is it of yours the state of AFC? just so you know, AFC and BC are two seperate entities and if BC walked today, AFC would continue to follow their God-given mandate, i’m sure of it. i’m not blaming you for the state, because i truely believe that we war against principalities and powers, not with man or woman. so, like i said, i’m not surprised that this kind of response came towards Humbled and myself but i assure you now, there are others who are wondering about the avatar situation. maybe not all but others.
wow, did i mention anything about the “revival” being AFC… nope. because, i believe that revival is greater than any man, or church. don’t you? or are you assuming that you are the revival? i can lay out each of those issues about fornication, blah, blah, blah, but i assure you, it goes on in more churches than just AFC. but what do you expect, to be a big brother and follow everybody around making sure that they don’t sleep with each other, that every marriage is perfectly okay, that everybody is teaching their kids the 10 commandments? also, get over the 600, will you? you tell me to get over the avatar situation but you can’t get over this situation, a situation that you claim to have removed yourself from but are still doing your very best to stay involved. i can assure you that not all of the 600 left only because of the reasons you try to bring up. some left due to military reasons, some felt that they received everything they needed and moved on to the next step in their life, some left for the reasons that you accuse of, some left after their families moved but some also left and fell into those things that you called out after they left. some left and didn’t grow. i know some were really hurt when they left, and for that i hope Christ can find a way to restore them. i’m sure that your church is spic and span, clear as bell, right? i’m sure it’s perfect? also, i didn’t bring up AFC, you did. i was talking about revival.
go ahead and ask everyone to post without using your e-mail but like i said before, now that the point has been made, it’s a wash. we can’t be sure who is who, these days. and you say i’m being attacked by everybody, but really, it’s only you, your husband, and Lupe, that’s not everybody. that’s only one person more than me and Humbled, but who knows, it could be one person less than me and Humbled.
body of Christ, i urge you to press into God, seek His face, follow Him. let Him be your guide. i’m sure, after you’ve spent time with our Father, you will be able to find peace in this matter and know that God will be glorified in it all. don’t be swayed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. listen to the Christ on the inside of you. don’t look to SG, or myself, or any of the others on this blog for direction on what you should do, but know and believe on the inside of you that God is greater than anything in our lives. none of us are perfect, and i require no apologies from anybody, i just urge you to lay at God’s feet, soak in His presence and His love, and He, and He alone will provide for you in every way possible. it’s amazing the grace and love God can show each of us, even in our trespasses. that when out turn from out wicked ways, and seek your face, you heal us. when we call upon your name, you are awesome enough to hear our cry and answer us. i love you Lord! i praise you for who you are and the glorious things you have in this life and the life to come. i worship you for who you are. please God, touch the lives of all those here who call upon your name. leave nothing to chance. i speak blessings over everybody, SG, HG, Isabel, Lupe, Gino, Sabrina, and the others involved with this blog. i pray that you visit them, even tonight and speak to them, reside with them God that your Kingdom will be glorified. and again, i repent and ask for your forgiveness, God, for my wretched self. i ask you to forgive me for allowing the influence of ungodly principalities in my life. i seek to be more like you and to walk in your ways and to grow and establish the kingdom of heaven here on earth. i love each of you. God Bless!
600+ people is not proof. again, it’s all hearsay that can spread. i’m not discrediting what you’ve gone through. i’m sure it was hard to see those things and to have all the questions swirling in your head. however, i know TC is one tough cookie and i know she would not leave without just cause. but do you think that maybe all the stress of the building, then all the accusations, of which she knows weren’t true, then to lose close and personal friends, having some of them turn on her, would cause her great harm and grief. my god! this has probably been my one and only day of posting on this blog because the points have been made. i know some of the stories that are out there. maybe not all but some. but, i believe in my God enough to know that He has spoke to me personally.
once a part… i’m sure it’s been a tough walk. don’t think that the majority represents the heart of the minority. if you were to attend AFC, just attend, not come back, attend, find those that you were close to and i’m sure they would love on you as much as they can. i’m sure you’re missed. i think i can hear your heart, but that’s just me. i offer you this. until you see some of the changes in the last year or so, even the last few months, you can’t understand the change of heart that has taken place in AFC.
i agree with Humbled (wait, that sounds familiar 😉 )… SG, why don’t you start a church? that way you can do things you would like to have seen done. take what you’ve learned and implement it into your own church.
to all, i cannot judge and would never judge any of you. everybody is where they are at for a reason. God is the only one that knows everybody’s motives as to why they stay or go. God is still moving at AFC. some may not agree but i assure you, He is. i’ll keep checking in, but i will be looking with a very inquisitive eye, only because I don’t know who is who, really. God Bless!
Goof morning friends.
Please scroll above a ways and see MY post dated 05/15/08, 8:29am. Read it and then re-read it, please, just so you get the jest of it. Now read all the comments from Avatar and Humbled that follow suit. And then when you get to the most recent ones….read what they say about the Church coming together. Doesn’t this spirit sound very familiar? This is the same voice that kept and continues to keep the body of Christ in constant confusion and mistrust of each other.
The current situation at AFC is getting worse each day. As we all know, this is due to the continued denials and unrepentant behavior of certain leaders. They cannot stop the hemorage of their church and so they are doing whatever they can to stop THE CHURCH completely. This is same old same old stuff and those of us who’ve experienced these kind of attacks see it for what it really is. You should not be discouraged by it at all.
Again, leaders of the flock of God. I ask you to step forward and call a gathering of the people of God. Lets unify in what we stand for and cast off the dead clothes of the past. Let the Church arise and come forth. Leaders, I humbly pray for you. I believe God is restoring you all and making you whole. The Body needs you and we are here to follow you as you follow Christ.
Be blessed family. If anyone has any questions, you can reach me 760.622.9976. I’m always available.
Avatar expert says: that there are others wondering about the avatar sitaution… I dont see anyone but him and Humbled riding on this non sense…Like i mentioned before, it couldve been anyone using SG’s email address, because SG did leave her email addy on this blog… I can easily change myself to SG…
ummm… check out my avatar
ummmmm… check it out again…
so give your observation a rest… Besides, if you are still wondering then maybe you can set up to meet with everyone that are posting on the blog and see who’s who… Since you are so curious…… Oh but then wait– let me guess… you are too good to associate with people like me…. Then stop your lame observations and show us PROOF… Just because you observed the avatars being the same doesnt mean anything… For who knows what- someone could’ve taken SG’s email and name and use to post something on here… doesnt matter what computer youre bloggin from….
speaking of attacks- why are you attacking SG?
Ephesians 4 commands us to “speak the truth in love.” I am a continent away from the AFC situation, so I have no way to know what is and isn’t true about it, but this conversation does seem to have lost some love – among people who appear to not only know each other, but be related to each other in Christ. Very sad.
So, would every one commenting here take a moment and read a post I recently put up on How Do You Admonish Someone On A Debatable Issue in the Church?
Would you please do this BEFORE you comment again?
It might go a long way to helping tone down the comments here – something I suspect everyone involved would appreciate.
Thank you!
Scott W. Kay
I also was wondering about the avatars. And to me it makes far more sense that SG was posting as an alter ego, then the likely hood of someone posting with her email address. But that is only my opinion.
So now theres 3 of us wondering, me, humbled and avatar!
Sabrina
Scott, thank you for bringing the article to our attention. i had already read a portion of it earlier and finished reading it after seeing your post. i find it very pertinent in many ways, so for that, thanks again.
let me try to improve the way i respond to certain posts. first of all, i would like to say, i prayed for each of you this morning and will continue to do so. i find it’s the best way to make sure to fight off any bitterness or offense that may try to enter into my heart.
SG, after Scott’s post, i would have to say that first of all, if i caused you any offense, i apologize. however, by the time you entered into the conversation, i had felt what i feared would come and that was personal attacks of being called an idiot and needing to step up my game, but that’s not an excuse, so i apologize. don’t get me wrong, i still find the avatar situation quite questionable. they can re-read your post, but they should also re-read Humbled’s post at 10:42am on 5/15. also, it’s obvious that there’s people on both sides of this fence and i would urge you in the interest of the Kingdom and pursuing “love and unity”, move forward. if you feel that there is still a great void that needs to be filled, start your own church, and take what you’ve learned and move forward. leave AFC to their matters and let God deal with it how He sees fit. you’ve stated your case, repeatedly, and we mostly understand where you are coming from. also, in my opinion, BC and AFC are two seperate entities and i know that AFC would move forward regardless of any outcome of all of these accusations. i can agree to disagree and i know that we have differing opinions. however, it does not make either of us any less/more right/wrong. there are those who agree with you and there are those who don’t. again, you’ve stated your case, so move on and speak about your church and how they are doing great things, and moving in God. this is not any kind of scheme or plan or strategy to try to silence you. it is what it is, an honest attempt at trying to see the kingdom grow and unified, even if the details aren’t agreed upon.
lupe, again, if i caused you any offense, i apologize. however, you were the one to call me an idiot. you were the one that tried to mock me. but like i said last night, i do not require apologies from anybody. and just to point out, i was not stating that i want people’s names, i actually said that i do not care. i was just stating that it appears, very strongly, that some people have posted as more than one identity to push one side of the story, i agreed with Humbled, who was repeatedly under attack and questioned by you. you repeated yourself with five posts, two using SG’s e-mail. but if you had read my posts, you would have seen that i know that people can pretend to be SG, which i doubt has happened except for your posts trying to make a point. again, Humbled had pointed out and i agreed that it appears that SG created a couple of different posts to support one side of the story. sorry. i still believe that to be true and i can agree to disagree with you on the fact that it takes from the credibility of what’s being said here.
Humbled, although we appear to be on the same side here, i hope that you are not discouraged at all. i know that you are looking for the proof. even if proof were to show up about every single circumstance that appeared, i would continue to follow God, listen to Him and do as he guides me. *note* i did not say continue to attend or not attend any particular church.
i find it ironic that Scott shared that article and as i read in the e-mail he posted… “But we felt we couldn’t be ourselves without being shunned or looked down upon.” i thought of my post yesterday when i stated that i would almost rather stay at AFC to avoid people. that’s how i was feeling and have felt reading this particular blog. again, i can agree to disagree. i can stand firm in knowing that God has spoke to me personally about where i attend church and it’s not because anybody has tried to manipulate me. it’s because i asked God personally, and felt my time at AFC is not up yet. it will be some day because i know that i am not called to be a lifetime member, though there may be others who are. also, as i have ended almost every post with God Bless and a couple with prayers for everybody, i would hope that shows my heart in this matter that i am doing my very best to exhibit “love and unity”.
God Bless each of you and may He continue to be your source and strength. have a wonderful day, enjoy life, reach out to someone who needs the love of Christ, love on your family, build the kingdom of heaven. seek God and remain in His presence that His light and life may show and reflect the love of Christ in everything you do.
To all the my brothers and sisters in the faith I wanted to bring the word of God here to remind us that we are living in the last days.
Our big brother Paul writes in 2 Timothy 3 There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous without self-control, brutal not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure, rather than lovers of God.– having a form of godlisness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and swayed by all kinds of evil desireds always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
We are in the last days. Brother will betray brother and houses will be devided against its self we need the wake up brother and sisters
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but every one to come to repentance. BUT THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME LIKE A THIEF.
Please hear the cry of the Lord do not be caught asleep (They think that about 50,000 people were killed in the earthquake on monday in China – we all also can be gone as quick as them) (They passed the right for the same sex to now get married here is california the scriptures are all coming to pass….
God please keep us in your hand and never letting any of us or the evil one take us out . I pray for all that are in valve bring to them your peace, love, joy, and all the fruit of the spirit restore and make us a new…
God’s Word said in the last days he will pour out his spirit also and his son’s and daughters will many great things. Lets be on that side with God.
Much Love to all my brothers and sisters in the faith
SG wrote: …The current situation at AFC is getting worse each day.
Should we gather from this statement that you have been attending AFC’s Sunday and Thursday services? Have you joined their current leadership team?
If not, how can you make a statement like that?
It seems to me that a more accurate statement would be that in your “opinion, based upon blog activity, it would appear that things are getting worse…”
Either way, the Bible is very specific about the difference between a Good or Bad/Evil report.
What’s the difference between a good report and a bad report?
It’s the spirit of the report that makes it good or bad. A good report can have bad news in it.
A good report does not mean denying the negative facts. It becomes a bad report when we use the negative facts to build a case for unbelief and to generate fear and promote failure. A bad report is when we add rumor or reinforce rumor with facts and turn the truth upside down.
Biblically, bringing an evil report (your own or someone elses) puts you outside of God’s protection and covering. We all know what it’s like to be outside the will of God, but His grace is sufficient, when we repent to our Father and seek out His direction, he will forgive us.
However, the laws of sowing and reaping (action & consequence) will always exist, and God is gracious and does allow us to learn from our mistakes – so repentance may not always result in an immediate cessation of the consequences of our actions.
Did you ever wonder why Joseph – favored by his father – went through all that he did before he saw God’s plan for his life realized?
It all started with an evil report. Go back to Gen. 37, it’s really easy to miss, but it is there.
How about Joshua and Caleb? They were sent out to bring news of the Promised land and only these two brought a good report, all of the others brought an evil report – the consequence of the evil report was never seeing the promised land, while the consequence of bringing a good report WAS the Promised land.
Something I often ask myself before giving my opinion or when hearing someone else’s: What is the fruit? If the fruit brings peace, understanding, hope, love (I could go on) that’s Godly fruit. If the fruit is anger, worry, strife, confusion, conjecture, etc. then turn away, guard your heart.
Susanne, you and I have never met, and we may always have different opinions/ perspectives, but as my sister in Christ, I implore you to take care not to give an evil report. As my sister, I want God’s best for your life, I hope to celebrate with you in heaven one day and it hurts my heart to think of the pain that an evil report can bring to anyone.
I think we all agree that as believers, our words have power – the power that comes from Christ in us.
Please, let us use our words to speak life and not death, blessings and not curses. Speak Truth (God’s plan) into all situations – regardless of the facts.
“Speak to things that are not as though they were” that means we have the power to speak life into AFC, speak healing into those who have been hurt, speak restoration to those who have been broken.
If we do these things, all the rest will fall into place. Let God deal with any sins that may have been committed, He hasn’t needed our help yet, and I have complete faith in Him and His timing. His word does not return void and He told us that our sins will find us out – He didn’t tell us to give Him a hand in fulfilling these things.
Mrs. Satrape, grace and peace to you. Sincerely.
I would also admonish you to stop trying to get people to pretend that what they know does not exist. This is witchcraft in every sense of the word. You mentioned fruit, yet you ignore the witness of everyone who has told about their experiences at AFC. Whether you want to admit it or not, it is truth to them and you cannot tell them otherwise. Please ask your husband to ask Barry Cook to repent of his sins before the church. The people are not going to follow you or Mr. Satrape just because you have, in your opinion, decided that none of what is being said is true. Many are concerned for you that you are in denial and that you are willing to deceive people while you continue to promote an already failed ministry. Failure due to gross immorality. I understand that you have already made up your mind ,and that is your perogative, but don’t think that you can issue me fake “prophetic warnings” just because I don’t agree with you or your husbands denial (of any wrongdoing on the part of AFC leadership.) I am not impressed with such nonsence. This kind of thing has been going on with AFC leaders for a long time. Several people here on this blog have stated that as fact. Too many have called me personally and told me what they SAW. (I haven’t even posted most of what I heard.) And others have also stated that their recent attendence at AFC gave them a first hand account of the continued dwindling down of support.
I know you think this is just an evil report, but maybe it is God’s way of showing you that His judgment has already came upon AFC. You’re going to have to admit that someday. I have every hope that God is going to restore His Church in this territory. But I also believe he is going to send men and women who are brave enough and honest enough and even humble enough to not look people in the eye and tell them that their first hand experiences are nothing more than personal opinions. What are 600 people crazy and the hundred of you that are left are the only sane ones?
I will be happy to work along side of any leader who is willing to do that. Until then, the reality of the situation continues to speak the truth. The truth is not evil just because you don’t want to hear it or accept it.
We are not full of fear and we do not feal that The Church has failed in anyway. We know that one man’s failure is not the failure of the whole body. Many of the people who are no longer attending AFC are stating that they are happier, healthier, and more free than they ever were while attending AFC. So again your opinion or what is an evil report is based upon your own personal filter of this situation.
The truth is we both want the same thing. I’m just not willing to deceive people into getting what I want.
I will finally say that I am not a dual poster on this sight and that more than one person in my household not only uses the same computer but the same email address. And that is the last time I’m going to address that silliness.
Until we are formally introduced, you can call me Mrs. Guinn. Susanne is a little familiar of you considering that we don’t know each other.
Thank you Scott for your post.
In time the church in North County will be restored under the Banner of Jesus Christ!!
Until then…much love to the family.
When the true leaders of NC stand up, please give us a call. We will be happy and honored to co-labor with you for the continued Kingdom success.
SG-
Mrs. Susanne Guinn… you lost me at Mrs. Satrape.
She and I are not the same individual.
Again, you have made assumptions about me, who I am, what I want, what I mean, etc.
Maybe later I’ll be able to read your message – right now… blah
To God’s Word: Great Scripture!! Thank you.
To Avatar. I accept your apology and I’m sorry you felt attacked.
I have to though, you are wrong about me being dishonest about my identity. I can see where the appearance of evil may have come in, but I assure you that is all it is.
Don’t worry about trying to silence me, only God has that responsibility and yes, I will hear Him when He tells me to stop. Count on it.
Love and much prayers to you and yours. I hope that you too will move forward and fulfill all that God puts on your heart through His Word, His Spirit and under the dutiful direction of God appointed leadership.
Be Blessed!
Hi Sabrina, how is your marriage? Are you and Abe overcoming? I’m glad to know you’ve made it through some pretty tough times. Be encouraged! In God you will overcome whatever mistakes were made to ultimately fulfill your divine purpose.
Be blessed!
For Ashes: You obviously red my post. My direction to you about addressing me in an appropriate manner was at the end of the comment. BTW, thank you!
You’ve been following this story for all long time going from Blog to Blog defending either Ron Satrape or his assumed leadership role at AFC. This is very characteristic of a wife. I don’t blame you. I would defend my husband just the same…. as long as he wasn’t leading another astray or being led astray himself.
I do admire your loyalty and devotion to your man of God. It is commendable.
I have made it clear already that I am NOT Mrs. Satrape, nor is Apostle Ron Satrape my husband. Being mistaken for this annointed woman of God is a compliment, so… thank you, I accept that compliment.
Anyway, after spending time in prayer, I read your message, prayed some more, and will address the comments you have made to me.
In all honesty, the human side of me would like to shake my head in frustration and ponder how once again, you have skipped over the message, made assumptions, put words in my mouth, and twisted (in some cases fabricated) what I have written.
We serve loving God, he has yet to give up on me, so by His example, I’ll give this another try.
You clearly missed the entire message of my post, if you truly want to grasp the difference between a good and bad report, go back and read what I wrote – read the scriptures for yourself, don’t just take my word for it.
Pay close attention to the fact that a Good report CAN have bad news in it and does NOT deny negative facts. The difference is the spirit behind the report.
1. Show me where I have tried “to get people to pretend that what they know does not exist”. Why am I so certain that I have not done this? Because it isn’t even close to what I think.
2. According to Galations, witchcraft is “works of the flesh”. I ask you to show me where I have practiced witchcraft. I have not, and your statement directly suggests that I have. The very definition of false accusation.
3. I would have to be blind and deaf to not be aware of the feelings of those who have stated them, however unless every former member identifies themselves and expresses their feelings, it would be an assumption to say that the feelings that have been expressed are also shared by every former member.
Feelings, perspectives, past hurts & experiences belong to each individual and I have not told anyone that they are not entitled to them.
4. At no time have I claimed that the past or present leadership is without fault – they are humans. I have asked for proof – beyond assumptions – of specific accusations that I know to be untrue. I have also reiterated the concept of innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.
5. Just a few days ago you practically gave a sermon on wives submitting to their husbands, and yet when you thought I was Mrs. Satrape you told me to “ask your husband to…” First off, if she thought Barry should do something, I can assure you that she’d express that to him herself. Secondly, she would not try to direct her husband in this matter as he is both the spiritual head of their household AND now the spiritual head of AFC. Shoot… if I thought there was something Barry should do, I’d tell him myself. I will not tell him to stand up and lie to God’s people by admitting to things he has not done so others will be quiet.
6. Do not be concerned about Apostle Ron Satrape or anyone close to him. He has a saying that applies here: Why worry if you pray, why pray if you worry. He has not gone into this situation blindly, nor is he new to it. He has been working with AFC for several years. Accusing him of being “willing to deceive people while you [he] continue[s] to promote a failed ministry” is yet another false accusation.
7. Forclosure and failure are two completely different topics. Losing a building is not the end of a ministry… it’s the end of an address. “Failure due to gross immorality” is a statement based on assumption and supposition – unless you saw these gross immoral acts for yourself, you have only made a guess.
8. “prophetic warnings” – Where exactly did I purport to issue you a prophetic warning?!?
9. As for the continued “dwindling”… the facts don’t support these statements and if they did, what an excellent opportunity to speak LIFE into the situation.
10. God is not bringing judgement upon AFC! He has provided the body and it’s leaders an opportunity to see where they need to grow – many have seized this opportunity to do exactly that!
You see, that’s the God we serve. A God who gives us the opportunity to learn from our mistakes – and in doing so we are also given an extra measure of grace so that when our brother or sister stumbles, we will reach out a hand to pull them up – not lecture or admonish them while they lie bleeding and broken. It is our humanity that reminds us that without God we have little to offer, but with Him, there are no limits.
11. Again, show me where I’ve accused 600 of being crazy and (according to you) 100 sane.
12. Your whole paragraph on fear and failure is yet another example of misplaced emphasis – read the WHOLE thing. The comment about my “filter” comes out of left field – go read the scriptures, I have more if you’d like them.
13. You said “The truth is we both want the same thing. I’m just not willing to deceive people into getting what I want.” Show me where I’ve deceived one person. The pattern of false accusation continues to manifest!
All of those who have been affected by this situation remain in my prayers.
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:11-12
Ya know… I could actually respect your directness if you just called me a liar straight up.
Believe what you like about my identity…
as I’ve asked my child when upset over being called names: If I called you a purple alligator would you suddenly stop being human and turn into a purple alligator? What if I got the whole town to call you a purple alligator, would that turn you into one?
good report and bad report?!? hey! i really enjoyed that message by Ron Satrape two or three Sundays ago… hmmmmm….
So did I… but you already knew that 🙂
I was being fatecious… Because people kept repeating the sermon of good report and bad report… The reason I knew the message was preached two weeks ago was because a current member at AFC mentioned this to me…. And I think you took SG’s comment out of proportion… But then again, you are entitle to your own opinion… Thanks for sharing your thoughts…
Hey Beauty-
Im a former member of AFC…. And I now reside in Orange County… I got to admit that I left for different reasons… I didnt leave because of the divorce, the lies, and so on so forth… I didnt leave because of BC, TC, VL or CL or RW or whoever…. I left because of my job and other family ties… But recently my brother and his wife, who were also members of AFC, left the congregation (it hasnt been a year)… Their reasons are the same as of SG and the rest who are fighting to bring some light to the situation…
I didnt want to believe the stories I heard, and decided to visit AFC on mother’s day with the joys of my life (sons: Mark & Josh)… I had tears in my eyes when i walked in the church and noticed the difference… The AFC I left a long time ago was on FIRE… was filled with the Holy Spirit… was loving and caring… was walking in the LIGHT, and living the word of God… The congregation was filled with AWESOME members who loved the Lord and served Him faithfully… BUT- the AFC I walked into on Mother’s day was not the same… I left and there were about 800 members and during my visit I only saw about 100 give or take members + visitors… Like I have mentioned on my posting from 5/15/08 – this is clearly an outcome of something that is not of God…
My brother and wife are seeking help at the moment… My brother is a strong man of God, and I have never seen him this way… His is really hurt by what he knows about BC and CL… I will NOT speak of what he told me regarding BC and CL and TC and VL, because within due time if there’s any truth to what I heard – God will reveal.
Okay Ashes, I was trying to be nice, but it seems like you want it rough so you can whine about being attacked.
I think you are a liar and you will say anything to promote yours and Satrape’s agenda to cover Cook’s sin while you live on the East Coast completely disconnected from what is really going on.
Are you happy now?
We are not giving an evil report. AFC and its leaders are receiving a not so favorable report card from the people who were actually there for years and years. Sorry, your opinions really don’t mean much here. I can appreciate your input, but don’t get mad at me just because they have no weight.
Hope you and Satrape can come out to visit SOCAL again this summer. I bet these little vacations from the humidity of the East coast are a delight. Good thing you can write it all off as a TRAVEL EXPENSE.
🙂
This is a SHAME that all you guys just keep going back and forth over pity JR HIgh stuff.
Create an AFC blog already, call a city meeting, or move on.
We all who know its true want repentance and want healing for all who were hurt, but this is gettting very petty and childish.
Im ashamed…………………
RedZone said it all too well, how much more proof do you need.
Good Luck JJ I hear you are preaching this Sunay. You were one who always encouraged me and lifted my head. I still hold your Profetic words for my life.
To everyone else its time to show some maturity and some respect for the author of this article and grow up alreaady. SG I believe in what your doing but this is by far oput of control and should be done in a different matter.
AFC was really good about going down to City HAll and fighting for what they believed. Have a meeting if need be in a central location with htis new man who runs AFC and believe me the people will come.
Once Apart: We have been in communication with Satrape about that meeting. He never followed through. We wanted to meet with him and Cook and ask Cook the direct questions. We agreed that Satrape should act as the mediator even though he has shown great bias.
Ex AFC staff members and close associates of BC also emailed him about their first hand experiences. And to date, Satrape has ignored all and continues to say, “Prove it.” He expects a creepy video or pictures to pop up before he will accept what people actually witnessed as truth.
Unless we are willing to take Satrape’s word for it that Cook is innocent, he won’t meet with anybody. He may consider it to be a waste of time.
Yes, Cook is required to be present because he is still being publically represented as the AFC leader. He has not stepped down publically. If he is going to remain in the headship of AFC, he will need to give an account to this community for what has happened. We ask again for his public apology for his responsibility for what is taking place in an honest and truthful manner. No wordplay, no denial, just honesty. He will have to trust that we will be able to accept that apology and move on.
We are not bringing this before City Hall to judge. We are bringing it before the church.
Yes, things have gotten trite, but that is because the defense of such misconduct is petty stuff. It does not offset what has happened no matter how much rhetoric or propaganda is pumped into this community. Like the whole evil report message. That has been on the AFC website for at least 6 months yet still the members keep leaving.
I’m sorry that it has gotten to this point. AFC has and continues to use poor judgement in their leadership of this situation. They underestimated the community’s need for proper discipline to take place. We were never going to accept denials. Sorry.
Remember, it has been me that has called for the meeting over and over. Again, I ask the leaders of this community to call a gathering of the people. We will come.
For the sake of the wounded and weak who are fearful in this situation, I will tone it down on this blog. I’m sorry…. truly I am for everyone who is vulnerable.
To the AFC leaders, if you continue to fight this on the blog and not agree to meet outside of the blog, it is to your credit that more people are being hurt by all this. You’ve had opportunity after opportunity to meet privately, but you refuse at the expense of the people you say you are here to SERVE.
We both know where we stand and I will not allow you to continue to abuse this community, so for now I will look forward to seeing you in public. We’ll take care of this then.
Be sure, I’m not conceding at all. My challenge to BC remains. I implore you in Christs stead to repent and apologize to this community.
Good bye for now friends.
You know how to contact me.
Red Zone:
Thank you for your honesty, my heart goes out to your family and I pray that they find the help they need to heal from their experiences so that all of you can go on to fulfill God’s call on your lives. May I stand in the gap for those who have caused you pain? If so, then I would like to say that I am sorry for every hurt, dissapointment, and ungodly behavior you have endured; I stand in the gap and ask you to forgive me.
I can say from personal experiences that God can use the deepest hurts and dissapointments to provide us with an opportunity to see His hand in our lives in an awesome way.
It’s the “night times” of our lives that give Him the opportunity to reveal Christ in us and our Father’s love for us and others. A Pastor/Prophetess from Austria recently told me that if we’ll let Him, God can take the most hurtful experiences in our lives and turn them into the most beautiful healing ministries – he can heal that pain and use us to help others have had the same experiences!
SG:
That wasn’t so hard was it? Those are your true feelings, accept them and go forward.
As for whining about being attacked… who has the time? Why would I start now – there’s work to be done!
I know you would like to think that you have upset me, but takes a lot more than false accusation to get me going. You seem to think that I have been antagonistic in my communications, but I have carefully chosen my words and my questions continue to be dodged.
For the record, O’side was once my home, too.
Last I checked 12-14 hour work days do not constitute a vacation; but as most of you know, being where God wants you to be, doing what He sent you to do is often rewarded with a renewed spirit and the energy to keep going.
BTW… A tax write off goes against an income line. Apostle Ron and others from his area who are helping him are NOT being paid for their time.
Not being paid because they can’t be bought. We all agree that God wants us there and God will provide. Personally, I do not hold a paid ministry position with any church, so my time spent working on anything AFC related (from either coast) technically costs me money, I look at it as an investment into the kingdom.
Ashes: I have not ever been untrue about my “feelings” about this situation. If you look back over the blog that is a little obvious. Will you please stop thinking so highly of yourself to believe that you have this situation figured out and everyone involved as well. I promise you that you do not.
Satrape’s ministry does have somekind of line of income. The travel expense does not have to be offset by direct income from a specific place. I know, I am a book keeper and credit manager of an international company. Are you saying that he is paying for the airplane tickets, hotel, food, tips, local transportation, clothing, etc out of his own pocket and not out of the ministry account?
What do you think our investment is in…koolaide? You haven’t logged enough hours to even begin to cover the investment that our family alone has made and will continue to make into this community. When is the last time you wrote a check for $10K toward AFC. Oh thats right, nobody has done that in awhile….hence the foreclosure.
You stated 12-14 hours a day working all towards helping Cook recover from his downfall yet you also want us to believe that you have no bias in this situation and that your totally about the corporate Body in this community, yet you refuse to meet with anybody that will not accept all the public denials………
For the record, North County is my home and has been for over 15 years.
Again, this is not about YOU!! So why would you think that I think you are upset????? Lady, you’re getting us nowhere. Remember if you think you are leading and no one is following you, you are only taking a very long walk. We’ll see you again after the next lap.
Call me when you’re ready to get serious.
I see it going both ways. How can you assume that you know the heart of AFC and it’s leadership team? You may have been in and be in contact with past leaders and staff but that does not reflect the heart of current leaders in any way.
By your own admission, many of the past “leadership” have left. This is the leadership thatyou were under and by the admission of many, the current leadership is almost all comprised of people who were not leaders during your time or even the time of when they moved into the building on El Camino Real. Sounds like your targets should be those that have left but wait, now you’ve befriended them because there’s more dirt to add to the story, right?
As a past member, I did not leave AFC for any reason other than God instructing me to. I knew of all the accusations but it in no way reflected on my decision. I still visit from time to time and enjoy it greatly when I do.
No you are completely wrong about what you are saying about my relationship with past and present AFC leadership. Here is why.
First and foremost, Barry Cook is THE leader of AFC. Others are working with him and under him, but make no mistake about it, he is the leader of AFC. I do not hold any other leaders responsible for this situation in a direct way. Barry Cook is the founder and creater of all that AFC was and is today. The rest were mere followers and did exactly what they were told to do when they were told to do….especially if they knew what was good for them. Anyone who stepped out of line was attacked and I mean attacked for their perceived insubordination. The leaders that are speaking out now about these experiences and more are openly admitting their mistakes and have actually contacted those that they could to repent to them for their involvement. Many on these leaders are being received with open arms and are admired for their honesty. In my book, they are the true pastors of the flock.
Barry Cook, Ron Williams, Carlton Sauls, Veronica Lopez Williams are current and past leaders of AFC. The latter three continue to go along with what they are told to do just like those before them. Regardless of their actions, we hold BC ultimately responsible. He is the one who refuses to directly address the allegations of misconduct. If and when he decides to do this, those that are following him will change their tune as well.
The “story” that the ex-leaders are telling, (BTW, many have just left within the last few months even weeks…they were there before 4055 to El Camino) is about confession and restitution to the Body. They are telling their story to get back at BC. They are telling their story to the people asking for forgiveness for the way that they came against all the people who left because they could not deny the truth any longer. They realized they were deceived themselves, yet they do not use this as an excuse for the way they treated the family. So their “story” isn’t about vengance, it is about reconciliation.
To those leaders, you know who you are, we ALL love you and bless you to fulfill the will of God in the territory. We know you need time to heal from your own personal wounds, but know this…when you are ready to reengage, we will be there to gird you up in every way. We will not withhold our time, talents, or finances out of offense. I trust you and I will gladly serve the Lord by serving you and this territory.
We trust you because you obviously have enough love in your hearts for the people to go all the way to the cross for us. You risked rejection, but you put away your pride and came to us and extended honor and respect. In turn, we give you the same.
We extend grace and patience to give you the space you need to be made whole and to restored HOLY unto HIS service.
We love you family.
Correction: They are telling their story NOT to get back at BC….
Barry Cook, please come before the congregation and confess your wrongdoing; apologize for the years of deception; and allow THE CHURCH to witness your humility before God and man.
Barry Cook, be ye reconciled to God and to THE CHURCH.
I am a current AFC leader, and from my experience (the past four years) the things you are talking about SG are not occurring. I know a lot of the people you speak of and they are gone. How can you compare what is old to what is new?
You can claim any one of us are attached to the old wine skin, and I really don’t care that you can’t believe otherwise. I don’t care that you are so stuck on the past that you can’t move forward, as a matter of fact, NONE OF US care that you are trying to prevent a ministry from moving forward that WON’T be held back.
No leader wants to call you, what is that going to solve? Why bother? So we can hear “your side”? Why would anyone want to meet with you that holds a leadership position at AFC? You have defamed my friends and all I know is that God judges EVERYBODY. You don’t possess a “Get out of jail free” card because of the “dirt” you presume to have on BC. And why would ANYONE want to put there name on here just to have you turn right around and intimidate them and slander them? Is that really Christ like?
Why do you keep referring people to bring back the church? The church is here! You either operate in it or you don’t. $10,000 check? Are you bitter or proud about giving this money to the kingdom? Or has it become painful to see the church you seem to think you help build in foreclosure?
Don’t you get it? This was NEVER about you or your money and the money you sowed into a BUILDING.
You want a church that no longer exists, memories that will not be recreated, good times and fellowships with people that are now part of the past. Trying to bring something that WAS is NOT God, it is mans self serving way of not knowing how to let go.
600 people leaving proves that AFC failed in a variety of ways, do we ignore that fact? No we don’t. We are improving and growing and being restored. Do you think fighting fire with fire is conducive to moving forward with God’s Kingdom?
Look, I get you have your convictions, but posting people’s names, trying to talk about a leadership that you OR the people you know are no longer a part of, is not showing diligence in you trying to prove your side.
AFC WILL MOVE FORWARD, the fact that you want BC to repent is not going to stop this ministry. 600 did not leave because he did not repent, they left because they were too focused on the leaders, and when the leaders they were tied to left, so did they. Don’t sit here and assume that 600 people are all gone for the same reason. Did you speak to all 600 to know that?
All I know is that as AFC moves forward, so does the will of God, we have witnessed the hand of God upon the church despite His will for the building. The opportunities that have been presented to us truly show us that we must continue moving forward no matter how defeated we feel due to all the attacks… Quite frankly, I’d rather move on than to stay in a building that was built by self serving leaders and congregation that supposedly sowed into the Kingdom but now are complaining about their money that went down the tubes. Where was your heart when you sowed?
Your comments about Ron Satrape show just how much you don’t know regarding the state of the flock, the leadership team nor the direction we are going.
What happens when this blog is shut off? What happens when the forum you have been speaking from no longer exists? Where will you take your story to then? We hear your opinions post after post, and nothing changes. People come promoting fruit and you can’t seem to move forward. I heard some stuff about your son, is it really necessary that all this spewing back and forth continue? Can someone challenge you about your alter egos from this blog and the history of your family?
Look, we all fall short, we all are sinners, we all make mistakes. Your attitude that you are right and 600 people leaving reinforce that view of your righteousness only tell of your self absorption that you believe God has commanded you to be the judge on Earth.
I’m over it. Over you, reading this blog, all you make us want to do is keep going. We won’t back down, let up or be still just because you are God reincarnated who knows everything. People like you make me realize that there are so many more important matters in this world, like saving people, restoration, grace, and making sure my kids are well equipped for life.
As a leader for AFC and in being diligent to protect my family from being thrown around in the media and having the wrong spirit saying our names, I stand up for what we are doing, I believe in the mandate, I believe in the 50 kids that are at Super Sabado getting saved and filled with the Holy Ghost, I believe in the people I am pastorally connected to who come to hear and feel the presence of God week after week, even if they aren’t the same people you went to church with in the “past”… and I believe that no matter what God prevails.
Before you come and attack me about what I don’t know about the “past”, remember, I don’t live in the “past”. I don’t live where ex-members resided. I live in a church of the LIVING GOD, who is CURRENT, ALIVE AND REAL. The past is gone, no matter how much you try and hang on to it.
Forever in His Grace,
AN AFC CURRENT LEADER.
– I hope everyone reads through my whole comment before taking things out of context, including you SG as I won’t be posting here again but I’m sure you will.
I believe in God, I believe in the church and I believe in HIS JUDGMENT and HIS JUDGMENT only.
Again to protect my family from the mistreatment of names I’ve read here, I won’t leave it. If the environment were loving and producing momentum to move forward, I might have had a different opinion.
Wow, Wow. Thank you for posting the heart and spirit of AFC and its leaders. Now it is on the record. There will be no more confusion from now on as to why so many people have left and continue to leave AFC. I feel sorry for the kids who came seeking the Lord to find themselves in a den of wolves.
God protect them and lead them down straight paths. Do not let the corruption of this iniquity come and steal away their innocence. Speak unto the hearts of the fathers and mothers and reveal to them that they must remove these vulnerable babes from this vileness and reproach. They came looking for you and because of your grace they will not be dissappointed.
Father you know the lives that were utterly defiled from this atmosphere that denies the work of sanctification in the lives of your people and you brought it out of hiding to warn THE CHURCH. Father, in Jesus’ merciful name, lead your people to safety. Lead them by the spirit of truth. I know that the lifespan of this disease will eventually run out and nothing will be left, but God do not allow another innocent to be offended by such corruption.
You will bow your knee to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. You will NOT continue in the Spirit of Jezebel you murderous demon. Come out in Jesus Name. We defy you in your pursuit of innocent blood and condemn your works to the lowest and uttermost parts of the earth.
The CHURCH will not relinguish this territory to you. We take it now in the name of the MOST HIGH and declare that the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached. We will have free access and we will take dominion in all righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.
I speak Freedom to North County in the Matchless and Wonderful name of Jesus Christ. Let THE CHURCH arise. And let the name of Jesus Christ be lifted up over every name that is named. We will not relent. We are promised the victory.
Leaders arise, take your place, position yourselfs to walk boldly in the victory of the Lord. Our enemy is defeated. THROW HER DOWN!!
Bravo, what an award winning performance from Beauty, Avatar, Humbled and Current AFC leader. I give you all two thumbs down for your attempts to distract the readers from the true issues that have been revealed and will continue to be brought forth on this blog and others.
News flash….. your fifteen minutes are up, the crowd (600) has left the building, the building is in foreclosure, and the lights are about to be shut off and instead of leading the remnants of this church ‘from the front’, Barry has decided to stick his head in the sand and hope that when he comes out of hiding it will all be alright.
Sorry Biff, it doesn’t work that way. In other words it does not matter what type of tone you send messages with, i.e. inflammatory, spiritual, avatar reading, scripture laden etc. it doesn’t stand up – hold up – or carry any weight in the court of public opinion.
The senior pastor, apolistic team leader or whatever BC is callling himself these days has wronged hundreds of people throughout his tenure as a spiritual leader in this area and currently according to Mr Satrape, he (Barry) is insulating himself. It doesn’t matter if he or any one else in the world thinks he abused or hurt others over this entire period. What does matter is what the individual members and yes former leaders feel, happened to them. Just like sexual harrassment on the job, the crime is the actions or one person and how those actions impact the physical, mental, and emotional state of the victim.
If you currently attend AFC and you have no knowledge of wrongdoings by BC and don’t feel any apprehension about continuing to suppprt this man and his ministry, go right ahead and do what your heart leads you to do. Personally I believe that is it not a matter of if , but a matter of when you will be disowned, disbanded and left desolate in your spirit from this ministry, once again it is my opinion only.
If you currently attend AFC and are in leadership and continue to support BC under the discription of ‘new leaders and new vision’, but you do know of misconduct and behavior by any at AFC and you try to silence and discredit those who have left but choose to speak out their knowledge and describe their pain…….. shame on you!
To all who have attended or served at this church and desire to voice your opinions or tell your stories I urge you to continue. If you have something to express please do so, no matter which side of the fence you are on. Scott has been so very gracious in allowing this forum to run it’s course and I feel we should use it. I don’t post a lot, but when I do it is because I think of the voiceless members who can’t speak out for themselves, those who were negatively impacted and those who are continuing being impacted with manipulation without their knowledge. (once again, my opinion)
I was supposed to address Super Sabado this post but after reading the last several days of entries, I will save it for next time.
Just a note the 600+ who left did not FOLLOW anyone out of the church………………Handfuls of us were pushed out when we asked questions and seen things that were not meant for us to see.
I was removed from ministry, followed through the church, ignored and spiritualy violated for making one innocent comment about someones smile and its resemblance.
and YES I say innocent, I still thought with all my heart the baby was VL and new nothing at that point of the rumors.
So dont assume people were just following others out. You oviously dont have a clue of the past. I do commend you for moving forward.
-“The new AFC” is being kicked out of the building
-BC lives in a 5 bedroom house on a golf course
– The Church note hasn’t been paid since August 2007
-hmmmmm…
BC is about to ride off into the sunset and leave you all holding the bag, fighting his battle. When it’s all said and done many will feel foolish, But it’s not hopeless just repent
FYI – VL is preaching tomorrow night at New Vision off Sycamore at 6:00p.m.
To Current AFC leader-
you sounded very frustrated and slight bitter about SG and SG alone… I just wanted to let you know that I was one of the people that left early on when the church was on Fire… I didnt leave because of BC, the lies, and divorce and so on so forth… I left for other reasons…. However, my brother and wife left a couple of months ago because of what they saw and know about CL and BC…. My brother is a strong man of God, and so is his wife… Right now they are seeking counseling, because they feel abused spiritually… Just want you to count TWO for the people that were hurt through the lies and more lies within the church… I wonder how many of the 600 will come forward and agree… Maybe not the entire 600 will agree but I know that most likely majority will…
How do you tell someone to forget about the past and move on? The thing is, you cant really run from your past, it will follow you whereever you go… I am only coming forward on behalf of my brother and wife… Because they are really hurt through this whole ordeal. It just comes across that you dont care about the people that were hurt… I’ve always known that there was a part of AFC that serves the Hurt & the Hunger… And you are in here walking all over our loved ones…
I have no ill feelings towards AFC or BC or CL or TC or RW– but I would really appreciate it if you wouldnt make your comments so general about people that are hurt should just move on… because my brother and sister in law are included in that comment… And they are not even blogging on here…
Wishing the best and many blessings on AFC… Thanks!
I tried to draw significance and acceptance from my performance instead of what Christ did for me on the cross. And that was my fault. But as I have had a chance to receive professional , Christian counseling I can look back and see how my need for approval was exploited at AFC. The constant belittling, put-downs, and comparing one person to another really affected me. It caused me to neglect my first ministry to my family and buy-in to this performance-based religion. After coming out of it and learning more about it, I learned through counseling that this is the M O of spiritual abuse. So the BC, CL saga took a back seat to that.
To those who say leave us alone and move on, I want you to know that there is a sense of responsibility that we feel to those of you who may still be under this. You would never tell a child that’s been raped to move on even if her offender is still free to hurt others. Please try to put yourself in our position.
To those who say, AFC is under different leadership and it’s not like it was, well I say show proof of repentance by admitting that’s how it was. These people aren’t crazy! Don’t be so vague in your proclamation that it’s different. What’s different? What’s changed? What was wrong? There is so much grace for the humble. That’s what we’re looking for so we can move on and be assured that babes in Christ aren’t experinecing what we did.
So, do you all assume that you hear God and the current members and leaders of AFC don’t? I understand that some of you have seen or experienced things that you did not agree with or that even hurt you. There were things that I didn’t always agree or like what was done but I understood that thay are human and in so being, understood that God has given them grace and love and so should I. In a sense, that allowed me to know that God is my source and nobody else. I don’t excuse their actions and decisions, I only keep it in perspective.
But, I can also say, that those I still talk to are walking out a new heart towards leadership. I think the Current Leader posted good insightful information but you can’t say that one person represents all of the leadership. They can only represent their thoughts and heart. So, again, it goes both ways. I don’t think that by saying that people left following leaders, which they did, that they were saying everybody did. I’ve seen it said that this is about BC’s issues but it’s not. By the actions, you’ve come against leaders and members of AFC only because they didn’t sit on your side.
Just to let you know, if I was still at AFC and you were trying to bring these things to my attention. I’d stay, again, only because God would have me there. But I was aware of a lot of these things before God moved me from there.
Also, I know some of these past leaders have called people to repent but shouldn’t that be towards the people that are still at AFC too? Or are they disqualified because they’re still serving at AFC?
What a mighty God we serve!!
As Believers You are Saved (Heb 7:25)
Forever by Grace through Faith, (Rom 5:1,2)
Forgiven, Accepted, Beloved of God, ( Eph 1:7; Rom 15:7; Rom 1:7)
Servants of the Most High God, (Acts 16:17)
New Creatures, Dead to Sin, Alive to God, (2 Corin 5:17; Rom 6:11)
Walking in the Newness of Life, (Rom 6:4)
Baptized into Christ Jesus, (Rom 6:3)
The Temple of the Holy Spirit, (1 Corin 6:19)
Clothed with Christ, Holy, Blameless, (Gal 3:27, Heb 3:1; 1 Corin 1:8)
At peace with God, (Rom 5:1)
Christians, YOU ARE, born again, (Acts 11:26; 1 Pet 1:23)
Partakers of the Divine Nature (2 Pet 1:4)
Empowered by God (Eph 3:20)
Children of Promise, One in Him (Gal 4:28; Gal 3:28)
The Body of Christ (1 Corin 12:27)
Seated in Heaven, Kingdom Citizens, (Eph 2:6; Phil 3:20)
A Royal Priesthood, vessels of Honor, (1 Pet 2:9; 2 Tim 2:21)
Salt of the Earth, Light of the World, (Matt 5:13-14)
Soldiers of Christ, Fishers of Men, (2 Tim 2:3 ; Mk 1:17)
Ministers of Reconciliation (2 Corin 5:18)
VICTORIOUS (1Corin 15:57)
We can fight sides all day long….
But just for the record, the “new” (as some people here have called it) AFC has a building to continue moving forward with God’s plan…
For the record, we have dozens of children going to Super Sabado every week getting saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and have a team of teachers who have a genuine concern to see these kids stay off the streets from selling drugs or joining gangs…
For the record, over 10 people dedicated their lives to Christ and were baptized today,
For the record, babies were dedicated today to the Kingdom of God with their parents being delivered from past sins and restored to a new place in Christ,
For the record, for the past three months, our attendance has gone up continuously, and we continue to save, restore, love and pastor the people of God, week after week…
For the record, our fellowships have increased and the leaders of the church take time to love and care for the individual needs of people…
For the record, our core group of leaders are ready and on fire to move in the Antioch pattern and preach the gospel to anyone and everyone who will listen…
For the record, we continue to evangelize the lost, bring revival to the church and reformation to our community…
Mission trips are in our future, directing children to Christ in neighborhoods infested with gang violence, team preaching and the Antioch pattern are what we believe in and operate in…
For the record, we are not dead, no matter what anyone says, we believe in our mandate, we believe in the high calling of Jesus Christ, we believe we are the voice of a new generation, we believe in grace, we believe in restoration, we believe in healing, we believe that we are the perfect church for people who aren’t.
Not all of us bear witness to the accusations presented here, how can anyone say that all of us here are operating in a spirit of sin when some of us don’t even know what you all are battling over. And some of us don’t care.
Why should I take your word about what you think has happened when I haven’t been part of any of it myself? Just because you say it doesn’t mean it happened. And just because I don’t believe it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. All I know is what I see, and what some of you are saying holds no weight to the the blessings and the testimony I have from being at AFC.
I hope we all agree on one thing, God is the author and finisher of our faith, and that we serve Him whole-heartedly, despite the problems some of you seem to have. Glory be to God, always and forever.
I thank Him for saving me and positioning me in a place where I have been restored, loved and blessed.
Ummm can you you give us a count for the record of how many women in the church Barry Cook screwed this month??
As for the AFC leader, you have got to be kidding me. Is this a joke. You are worried about where we are going to post our comments when this blog is taken down.
UMMM don’t u need to worry about where you are going to meet when the buildings doors are locked because of forclosure???
I’m not asking barry cook to invite me over for dinner so we can talk. I’m just asking him to be a MAN and stand up and repent. All of the sudden a cats got his tounge??
I say he trades in his Hummer for a Ugo. Maybee he can put the money to the building fund.
Well Barry it looks like your 15 min are up. Time forthe next city huh.
I know some of you don’t like my post and I will stop. Once Barry Cook comes out with the TRUTH. Once that happens you won’t see me post these comments anymore.
But I have a better chance of Donald Trump taking a part time job parking cars.
I have waited for years to see Gods judgement on Barrys Cult. If he decides to stick around, he will get to see another church buy his building for a great price. when he drives to preach in Ron’s garage Every Sunday he will pass the building and see another preacher walking in the doors to preach the true word of god. It will prob. be the ones he preached against. they will prob. serve donuts and coffee too.
God is good.
The AFC leader just gave me a good idea. What happens if this Blog gets turned off??? Well we will just have to start a new one. So everyone spread the word. By the end of the week you can post your blogs on http://www.ambassadorfamily.net
Nothing is up there now but everyone will have a chance this week. Gosh I hope we get lots of traffic.
Good night.
For the record, You sound like a Broken Record….
For the record, when will AFC leaders address and set up a meeting with the people that are demanding the truth and answerings to many unanswered questions?
For the record, When will Ron S stop beating around the bush and really stand up and recognize the issue here? And heavens sake set up a meeting already… He was on here earlier in the blog suggesting that we should’ve set up a meeting, but we have been trying but still no answers…
For the record, We have numerous accounts on here indicating that the attendance was at a 100 give or take + visitors (per red zone)… I dont see any increase in that…
For the record, count me as one of the 600 that were sick and tired of all the lies… Oh- this includes my husband… So, make that two…
For the record, stop this lame back and forth- because it’s never going anywhere… Until we have a meeting set, we’ll see you then…
For the record, Im out- PEACE!
I meant to say “truth and answers to many unanswered questions…” (typo)
To whats happening at AFC:
I am happy to hear that there are leaders that are rising up to fill the vacant spots of former leaders.
If you are a moving forward church WHY would you want to carry along old wineskins. I was taught at AFC that we carry the sins of our ancestors. So if you are for the people of the city and seeing salvation, as a LEADER you should also stand-up and request that this issue be addressed so it can be dealt with.
I believe that you may not know the sins of the past but you will be responsible to deal with them if you choose to be a leader in AFC. A true leader would want to make amends to those his spiritual father sinned against.
I dont come against you but I do request of you to be a true leader.
regardless of where AFC is going or doing this issue will not go away. It has affected many lives. Lives that served at Super Sabado, went on mission trips around the world, lives who casted out demons on that very alter you now stand, lives that preached from that very same pulpit.
MANY, MANY, MANY lives were affected there and believe me I am no way condeming or rebuking you for where you say you are going and doing. But if you are for the people and have a heart to see people saved then you must have AFC come to grips with what is at hand.
This is not just a few people it is many……………………………………………
I CHARGE YOU TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT………
For the record: Hal and I are not against genuine ministry to the territory, but we do question whether or not the currenty ministry of AFC is genuine. I’m not going to take their word for it while they continue to glory in God’s work and take the credit just to offset the allegations against themselves. This is PRIDE and ARROGANCE and they have their immediate reward. You can not pimp out the blessings of God to His people that come from His WORD.
Did you every think that this self promotion of God’s glory is why you’ve stumbled in the first place???????? Purge your heart of this naughtiness and stop peddling the things of the Spirit. You dare to continue to take credit for God’s work in the earth and wonder why judgement comes upon you. GROW UP AFC.
What is of God will remain, what is man-made will fall!
We look forward to the genuine move of God in this territory. We will know it because God Himself….Jesus Christ….will get all the praise.
CHURCH….PRAISE HIM!!!!
Nobody can see the fruit of what can happen when people are restored, you only see the darkness. That speaks volumes for who you say you are.
God’s glory SHOULD be spread, HIS good news is just that GOOD NEWS. If you don’t like the fact that we can move forward in HIS blessings, then you can stay in the world of bitterness.
I choose life.
We should continue to rally all of us who feel this way. “HE WHO HAS BEEN FORGIVEN MUCH LOVES MUCH” AND THIS STORY IS TO BE TOLD WHENEVER THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED…Jesus Christ”… BC preached hard and solid but was so kind and loving when I had a hard time. My turn Dr. Cook you didn’t agree with my stuff but you helped restore me. Count me in on the AFC 4 Christ side. Of course they will debate who is really on Christ side. But WE know!!! No one must have ever have shown them mercy or they would give it NOW! …the blood of Jesus..is bitter to drink but cleanses from ALL unrightouness! The Blood is applied to His heart! Let him walk out his salvation with fear and trembling! The Blood is applied!
BC ask CR to take a test and she refused it several times. After PS cursed at him screaming at the top of his lungs like a idiot. He tried again with a counceler. She just wonts to be left alone . Now she wont speak to him either. Says she is tired of being in this place and just wonts to get healed. She feels if she takes it or not will just make HER life worse either way. Now he is truly stuck in the middle. He is a very anointed minister and a good father. Also for your information he is not in charge of the church nor is RW. They have had many people offer them a place to worship. RS is doing his job to explore and sustain the progression on all counts. You only focus on one thing. Thats why he is who he is. They are moving forward and are very careful about maintaing the spirit of holiness NOW! Let them go forward pharoh and worship and sacrifice. The blood will never loose its power!
How do you know he hasen’t repented. He doesn’t have to follow your way he can still repent within scriptural perimitiers and not meet with your mean self. Whats done is done. Go have a party and get over it. I have never seen so many whiners. I served in the marine core for 23yrs. I was their when HG came storming in with his wife sitting in a beat up pick up truck outside like some loud mouth trailer trash. HG you were disruptive and very very angry. Nobody rough house you how could they you were mean. Pointing at the preacher and making faces. Who are you trying to fool. You guys present a image of you that is not accurate in reality at all. Everyone else has a reason they are forgiven but he has no reason unless he does it your way. If you are saved and care about people then move on wichy woman. Your pastor ought to see that if you act like this and feel God about it, then you will do it to anyone who doesnt agree with you. I command you foul spirit come out of her now in Jesus name! If he needs to repent he should, but not to you haters. That is not right…you are not right! AFC old leaders this just shows you care more about your emotions than your missions. If you love Jesus truly meet in the streets and win souls. With this much energy you could have blanketed the city by now. But you won’t nor will you even if he meet with you. Because you are in the flesh that is why you do fleshly acts. If you were of the spirit you would do spiritual acts. New afc is choosing the right thing, move forward and do the works of Christ. You guys are a twisted pile of snakes. Masqurating as a angels of light!
To Gino, we have a building already, we move in this week and we are EXCITED!
To Mark-
I knew that story was going to surface soon… Where BC asked CL/CR for a paternity test and she refuses… And little did we know that she was probably paid or told to refuse… Or maybe she said no to cover the man she loves (BC)…
MT-
haters?!? You sound like a hater yourself!! Calling HG disruptive, angry, and trailer trash…. hmmmmm…. and at the end of your post you commanded a foul spirit to come out… Gee! I dont know about that… A foul spirit rebuking a woman of God… I think it goes the other way around…
Whats Happening at AFC:
Glad you have a building…. and Im excited for you and the new AFC… I am happy for the praise reports that were stated earlier… I personally dont have any issues with any of the new leaders, because I dont know half of you…. But the issue still stands, because the shepard of the flock abandoned/abused/neglected 600 sheep. And this is a fair amount to just overlook…
No one is overlooking, we just can’t continue to live where it is now dead. I understand your point and thank you for your encouragement. I think through all this we have learned that we have improvements to make, and we are making them.
Unfortunately a lot of people were hurt, myself included. I still don’t believe 600 people all left for the same reason, we can agree to disagree, I know at least fifty individuals and families that left for other reasons that had nothing to do with this what is in this blog.
Unlike some people, I haven’t had an ex-leader call me to apologize, but I also don’t demand it, I released those people a long time ago. I believe they were sorry for what they caused in my life, I believe that they are being restored, I believe that God’s grace is sufficient.
I read something the other day:
John 10:12
But the hired servant (he who merely serves for wages) who is neither the shepherd nor the owner of the sheep, when he sees the wolf coming, deserts the flock and runs away. And the wolf chases and snatches them and scatters [the flock].
I just thought it was interesting. I’m not making any presumptions.
Blessings.
Whats Happening at AFC- I really like you… You dont have the ugly spirit that MT has– the name calling was uncalled for… But you come and post and state your ground with peace… Thank you Jesus!
Just wanted to add to your scripture: John 10:12
But the hired servant (he who merely serves for wages) who is neither the shepherd nor the owner of the sheep, when he sees the wolf coming, deserts the flock and runs away. And the wolf chases and snatches them and scatters [the flock].
Now read verse 13….
13. “The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.”
Hey everybody,
I’ve been waiting for the leadership of AFC to finally take a leadership role in this dialog. Thank you “current leader of AFC” for finally saying something. We have been promised by many that the “new leadership” is not the same as it used to be. I have been waiting (giving you the benefit of the doubt) to see what the new face of AFC leadership would look like when it ventured outside of its own four walls.
I carefully read your post on 5/17 08, unfortunately I cannot see where there is any “new wine” flowing from the vessel called AFC. All I see is the same old crap that AFC has been operating in for years now. As for the the “The church is here,you either operate in it or you don’t” comment, the way it looks from here 600(and counting) are part of the “you don’t” crowd, what part of that do you not understand? and why does the leadership of AFC continually choose to ignore those 600 and treat them as outcasts because they chose to no longer support a ministry that they saw serious problems with?
These issues that the Church have with you will never just “go away “until they are dealt with. You offer meetings but refuse to meet face to face. I also noticed that AFC has finally admitted to failures in the past but you give no indication of what those failures are.
There are numerous people saying that they KNOW that the wrongful conduct of Barry Cook is absolutely true yet there is not a single person that has ever said that “no, these allegations are absolutely false” all we ever hear is “even if they are true” or “what if they are not true” .I’m sorry AFC but you don’t sound very confident in your defense of this man.
This issue will not rest until Barry Cook himself stands up before the church(I mean the entire church) and answers to the allegations against him.
A little side note for those who need it, I am still not SG but you came close so from now on why not call me by my rightfull name…. HAL GUINN
Also to my friend “MT to all” I strongly suggest that you go back and review the video footage that exists of the incident that you are refering to and let it speak for itself.
One more thing just to clarify .The individual posting as HG and myself (HAL GUINN) are not the same individual.
Do any of you really believe that BC would have asked Carolyn for the paternity test and said it was refused or whatever??
Here’s something to think about:
The blood test was already done on the baby and that is how it was proved that VL is NOT the father. The one STILL NEEDING TO DO THE BLOODWORK is BC himself.
And whatever his motive would be in that case (if he did believe he wants rights to his son or to try to prove he is NOT the father (haha)), he could have it court ordered, pulling up the bloodwork that is already done.
It’s really not rocket science!
If he wants to clear his name, HE WOULD DO IT.
He isn’t doing it, however, is he? why? scared of what?
He knows that getting this test is to come clean – pure and simple AND IS NOT READY TO DO SO.
Like I said, this is NOT rocket science and you cannot ‘scripture away’ the lies, hurt or deception this man has been a part of and continues to DELIBERATELY walk in.
To Okay and…
I thought it was an interesting passage, I’m still studying it though. Also, I appreciate the respectfulness, it is truly a breath of fresh air.
Im curious if I was to walk into AFC today…..would I be escorted out like many others?
First and foremost Mr” MT to all” refering to my wife as trailer trash is about as ignorant as a human being can get. I noticed that you didn’t have the manhood to say anything like that when I was there next to you. My wife is an incredible woman of God who has been chosen by God himself as a highlly favored woman. Your ignorance and lack of education shines through on your post. There are many who love my wife and none more-so than myself. To any and all who have seen my wifes pick-up truck would you conider it to be a beat up pick up? Would a 2003 GMC 2500HD truck ,lifted ,with 35s on it not a scratch anywhere be considered a “beat up pick up.” For those of you who have been to my house and ate at my table, would you consider my home to be anything close to “trailor trash?” How about my wife’s cooking? The best in town!!
MT, you are an outright liar. Please call me in person and speak to me that way about my wife….760.521.0166.
okay, wow….MT….trailor trash, beat up pick up, yelling out the window of my truck….you are delirious.
If you knew me at all, you would know that is not my style . Sure I like my beautiful Charcoal Metallic, 2003, GMC Sierra 2500, lifted all the way to Jesus, with all terrain tires, Bose system, DVD, CD, Air, all leather, all electric, crew cab deluxe. I’m from Texas, we like our trucks BIG. Oh yeah, lets now forget my 2004 Harley Davidson Roadking with 16 inch ape hangers, slammed to the ground, black and chrome all over beauty. Whewwww, that bike is soooooooooooooo cool. Hey, have you seen my 2006 20ft ski boat with a V8, seats 10. Man, that runabout will skip across the bay smooth-like. I bet you’d love it. This country girl knows how to play…………want to come join I me? I didn’t think so.
Sounds to me like someone is jealousssssssssssss
Yeah while were on the subject of motorcycles. Does anyone want to to a “Prayer Run?” You know how the bikers love their “Poker Runs”, well lets do one where we stop at several points in the county and continue to THROW DOWN that lying witch JEZEBEL. C’mon, it’ll be fun.
To MT to all Says, I suggest that you slow down and gather your thoughts before you post again. Your vile, vicious rant above at 11:06 speaks volumes to what your own heart is filled with, nastiness! You do not represent the the men and women of the United Marine Corps very well in decorum, demeaner or literacy. Perhaps you were a sub-par Marine who slid through the cracks of leadership?
Marines have an attention to detail that is second to none, you on the other hand have by your own post, been weighed, measured and found wanting in various modes of communication and accuracy. I was supposed to be talking about Super Sabado at this time, however, I have decided to postpone it in order to hopefully, prevent you from ‘putting your foot in your mouth again in public.’
Let me help you out: I have posted on this blog a total of three times, not including this entry, May 2, 2008 at 9:29pm, May 10, 2008 at 12:29 pm and May 17, 2008 at 11:14pm. Maybe you should go back and read my entries and have Avatar Expert check out my avatar symbols before you start another misguided personal attack.
You have never seen me come storming into any building, worship, commercial, home or otherwise. You do not know the types of vehicles I own, my maritial status, or who rides in my vehicle. You seem to know an awful lot about nothing, in my book. You also might want to clarify to your AFC members who choose to live in manufactured homes or trailer parks, your true biased opinions towards them. Are they included in your views of ‘loud mouth trailer trash’? Where do you get your source of entitlement that you feel it is approprioate to put others in a class because of where they live? How do you really feel about the kids that you minister to at Super Sabado, who live in Oceanside?
What exactly is a ‘wichy woman’? Sounds like a cartoon character. What do you mean when you say, ‘haters’? Haters of who? You have to be somewhat disillusional to believe that anyone would be jealous or would want to trade places with Mr ‘I’m insulating myself’, Cook. Are these the terminology and descriptions of God’s people that your ‘new leadership’ at AFC is teaching you? You might also want to consult them and get permission before posting because you haven’t accomplished anything but verify a lack of character that is a part of your true nature.
Last key point… if you don’t know who you are addressing, or what you are doing, you shouldn’t be trying to command a foul, or any other type of spirit. You just put your spiritual immaturity on full blast to the entire internet world. So once again, take a breath, calm yourself, figure out who and what you want to talk about and don’t be afraid to use a dictionary. I look forward to reading your future posts.
Mr Guinn, thank you for your clarifying remarks above and I encourage you and your spouse to continue to do what you do. The two of you have become an a beacon of inspiration, motivation and courage to more people who have been spiritual abused, neglected and raped than you can even imagine. Again, I thank you both and to all a good night.
Once part of AFC– was someone escorted out before?? What in the world?!? For heavens sake, i thought the church was a sanctuary… No matter who walks through, they should be welcomed… No matter what the circumstance is… That only goes to show that they were worried and had unclean thoughts about whoever they escorted out… Unblelievable!! And we’re being called “the haters” (per MT)
Okay…you are jokeing. You cannot let one angry person…Control worship and effect the atmosphere. People get distracted and what not…the person should have some respect for something…come on!!!If someone won’ts to be prayed for then they could be and we would offer it. Or if someone finds a way to stay and not be disruptive.
HG – By the Lords grace I have come a long way and the Marine Corps was good for me. I may not be the smartest person in the world but I work hard and I take care of my family.
Here is a place everyone can post comments on a forum. I just set it up. http://www.ambassadorfamily.net I thought since we had all these people posting we could give it a web address. Everyone is welcome. Good bad or ugly. If you support Barry Cook and AFC, you are welcome to post. Thanks
http://www.ambassadorfamily,net
opps sorry i messed up that last link. http://www.ambassadorfamily.net
YES on more then one occasion people have been escorted out.
Lorenzo Dent and his family was simply worshiping the Lord and were not just asked to leave but escorted out. There are reports of others also.
Joel and Iris wedding: They had freinds they could not have there because they had left AFC. So how do you tell your freinds they are not welcome at your wedding beacause they left the church.
There was no Love of the Lord shown……….
As I have said before if you questioned anything they would follow you, drop you from ministrys, and totally ignore you as if you had did something wrong. People who questioned things were pushed out not just loosing their church family but their freinds.
You were not to speak to or have anything to do with those who had left. My kids would run into old freinds and be ignored as if they had done something wrong. When my best freind refused to commune with me after leaving my oldest child stated ” MOM, now I know what they say about AFC is true”
There was alot of control and manipulation. I personaly was told by Carolyn that if I had anything to do with a specific member who had left that I would have nothing to do with her or her baby at all.
There is no joking about it…………………………..
MT im curious how long you have been apart of AFC?
I know that we have addressed this issue and I believe that we have moved on and are welcoming those that have left and come back. I cannot speak for everyone at AFC, but for myself, I know people who have come back and I personally have loved on them, joined in prayer with them, and prayed for them.
MT-
All I know is that the Sanctuary is where people go and be set free… No matter what the situation is, they bring it forth to God… And you have no room to judge if they are angry, sad, or frustrated because God is dealing with them in the sanctuary (if they open their hearts)… If people are distracted than they are not worshipping as they should be…
So, whats the real reason for escorting visitors out during worship? Are you for real? I have never heard of a church escorting people out of their service because they felt that these particular individuals were disruptive… Even if they were just in there looking around and not saying anything, they were classified this way, and were not welcome…. Is it because these are the same people that are fighting to get the Truth that BC wont admit to? hmmmm… Everyone’s getting Dirty Dirty, aye?!?
Okay…I moved back to GA.
Okay..he’s not paying her off…CR is a strong willed woman when she wont’s to be…I have known her from other churches for years and anyone who knew her would say the same! She came up hard real heard and held onto Christ…she may have a crack in her pottery…but she is her own person I assure you!
Mr Guinn thank you… haha.
Newsflash – great rally but you don’t understand how it works.
Mark- … YOU… threw down some stuff jack…thanks for bringing it like that…! Good insight as I know it… as truth also.
AND WHOEVER said it…He has… openly declared… he was… not… the father… as has many others directly involved…openly…
CR is a beautiful lady and has a great heart and calling! God will use her again some day and she will be great in God’s harvest field. Blessings to her!
WIN SOULS…GO DOOR TO DOOR…FAST …PRAY…SPEAK WORDS OF FAITH…GATHER AND UNITE FOR FEEDING THE POOR…GO ON A MISSION TRIPS TOGETHER…BUT ONCE AGAIN STOP BEING SO UGLY AND WHINY…TO ECHO ANOTHER…LET GOD’S PEOPLE GO…LOOSE THEM TO START ANEW…
You should do the same…
Cook is moving on… I understand he is in a place of councel and growth. He is not running nor having it easy. He was never a heirling…ever… I know you don’t feel sorry for him but many are believing… for him to keep fighting and see what God has NEXT. Then I’m sure he will respond! Let God deal with him…he will bend to God…I believe…Can God rebuild with burnt stones. Who knows if he will ever minister in NC region again!
You guys can’t base your ability to live on…on this…that is insane sounding…please listen to yourselves! If you are leaders then lead like leaders and not like protesters.
Leaders don’t focus on the problem… they focus on learning and retrying…a new mission… and adapted measures and means. Meaning your seeds were for Christ, your labour is measured and given rewards by God, your love and restoring power will be measured…there is not a judgement award…
Many sound like you have no idenity outside of him. WOW and then you stone daily with your words. Call a truce and both of you get healed…you can’t get healed in a hostile enviroment! It is another FACT!
You and BC should learn… and do it different next time! So go try again… both of you… to do what God has called you to do!
But if you guys stand there as a angry mob…screaming…give us Barry…give us Barry…
Then I think he should let you believe what you will…stay under the counsel and discipleship of a true spiritual leader…trust God for healing…then keep preaching as he is released… Beacuse this proves… you guys aren’t healthy… to talk yet!
You need to be healed …but it is never functional to base your ability to live on in the future… because you are holding on to the past. He WHO HAS EARS LET HIM HEAR!!!
You SOUND like a divorced spouse… stop nagging like mad women… who still feel hurt…the hurt may be real to you but that has never been a healthy way to reconcile…it is …what it is…AT THIS POINT
…adjust..adapt and overcome! I speak the truth in love beseeching everyone of you while there is still light!
You all should pray and get back to work… if you would spend these hours in prayer or helping the local church you would please God!
Maybe you do… and this is just what you do… all… the rest of the time. Which is really weird!
Well… that should do it… this round! Love to all!!!
ginom- thats cool… thanks for doing that!! Oh – by the way, do we get to keep our avatars? I want to make sure that people know its me “OKAY! AND” …. Because people will freak out if we use different avatars…
MT-
Why are you copying what others are saying?? You are just copying and pasting your post… You are all over the place- making no sense… Besides, your real self showed when you called SG and HG names… so dont sit here and preach to us and yet you have not even once apologized to SG & HG for what you said… Dont just talk the talk—- you need to WALK IT…
* yawns… Goodnight and God Bless!
No copying and pasting here. This is the real deal. I like how you use other address to cover you thats cute!
Nothing I said disqualifys anything I said… on the last blog are the facts spoken about….SUGAR! I know you are not sugar…but I thought flem was to harsh.You guys give your comments all the time. You don’t apologize to nobody and have all kind of reasons why you don’t. It was my perception when I watched it happen. My feelings… and they are real also… just as real as yours. Speaking of hg in the church!
Stop trying to fool everybody! You twist and double and triple post. You got a weasel ginom and occasional new poster other than that… just posers. Bias are powerful thing to use in influence of old people. The way you phrase and the way you correct anyones opposing view especially anyone with clear concise perspective. I didn’t speak in generals either!
AFC now… don’t go to there post and blog. Stay away from theses guys. Don’t be caught in anybodys web. Start your on and just keep preaching Jesus!
“Making no sense”…yea right… that is how… you… avoid the truth. More crafty than you say Cook is…You deflected with rebuttle on other subjects but that is your mo! The things that I spoke are truths…you on the other hand repeat like a broken record …so maybe… I should just keep coping and pasting my last post.
Maybe so… this last post was all the truth and good stuff!!!!!!!!!I bet you still havent choosen a day to go door to door or get more involved under your pastors vision. Okay and SG where do you go to church now in NC?
I have many other things to say! But again you are not healthy enough yet to hear. You poor little hurt people… who can’t live… because you are so tuff… and a shadow of a big bad wolf is scaring you! Did he huff and puff and try to blow your house down too…oh my..Lions and tigers and bears…oh my!!
Do the real enemy damage and by winning souls and discipling new converts to Christ. As the body of Christ we must focus on the right thing! This is religious games to the devil and you guys are the ring leaders. Please get healed so you can build and JUST tear down. ENOUGH DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY!
But the poor in spirit you shall always have with you! So I am trying to strengthen the feebleminded!
You know… you think you finally have a place in life where you can fit! oh goody goody…hope this fulfills your need to be needed and acepted! IT IS A GREAT WAY FOR THE SPIRITUALY IMPAIRED TO PUKE ON EACH OTHER. Sould I go to rehab and you said no no no!!!!But you should… you are leaking!
This is not therapy for your sickness. It is like making Dracula charge over the blood bank.
Your getting boring… really boring!
MT….the point is that you are outright lying and/or misrepresenting what actually happened. My husband did not come in angry or disruptive. This is a completely false statement. You either weren’t there and someone has told you a self serving version of what really happened or you were there and you are embarrassed about the fact that my husband did not succumb to the threats and intimidation of those who tried to force him to leave. In the end, he actually left on his own accord…..the ushers did not escort him out….they followed him out. My husband was in complete control of himself and conducted himself like a true man of God. He came for one reason and that was to meet with BC. BC had not responded to our request to meet so Hal came by to follow up to make sure BC got our messages. When BC saw Hal, he paniced and in that panic, he sent several ushers to threaten my husband. So the person who was angry was BC and his thug life ushers. Including Ron Williams, Rick Riddle, Pete and at least 3 others. They freaked out when they realized that Hal was not moved by them at all. Several other ushers that heard the call over the radio to come to the front of the church, did not respond when they figured out it was Hal. Why? Because they know my gentle giant of a husband and new that if he were there it was for good reason. They told us this later when they saw us in public. Which by the way happens alot. We are very accessible people. We actually LIVE our LIVES in this territory. We are seen all the time. Can’t say I can say the same for the so called leaders of AFC. They don’t venture far from their caves……hmmmmmmmmmmm
My husband instructed me to stay in the truck which I did. I did not say a word to anyone. My windows were rolled up the whole time as I was waiting on Hal to come get me to tell me to come in with him. When I saw him coming out of the building with the little darlings behind him, I thought he was coming to get me. When he came to the truck he said we were being thrown out. I actually started laughing because he was laughing. We just couldn’t believe how scared BC was to meet with us. We were amazed that he looked at US as such a threat. Actually it is still kind of funny.
Anyway, MT, you’ve got it all wrong and I strongly encourage you to leave this matter alone and continue to work on your relationship with Jesus Christ in a more “nurturing environment.” We love you and honestly you haven’t hurt my feelings at all. So I forgive you and truly hope that you WILL do all the things you described above. Go for it man of God. We’ll be praying for you.
I do attend a local church in NC. This church and pastor are not being accused of any misconduct so I will keep my place of worship private. Does he know who we are and why we are doing what we are doing? Yes. He KNOWS. Unlike those who have something to hide, our pastor is not threatened by us. He has no reason to be. He is a man of God and would not be involved in such things as BC. He lives his life worthy of the vocation wherein he has been called. He lives beyond reproach and stays away from the very appearance of evil. He actually heeds the scripture in his private and public life. We love him and support him.
God Bless MT. Gotta go to work. Hey if you want to talk to me call anytime. 760.622.9976.
Yea ok.. cool…it happened just like I said… and you still could not address the other facts contained. That is ok also…we know why you can’t really address it. Once again you choose one thing to address in your lengthy defense.
You should keep your pastor private. Good move. Someone might start wanting to send him emails like you have done to others. huh? ANY TAKERS ANYONE!!!
Have a great day at work until you get thirsty again…then write and drink until you are full..fulfill your drive…I know you can’t help it! So I forgive you!
Just don’t ask me to hold still while you suck my blood! No one else should hold still while you spin your webs of deceit either. Watch the computer…read the words..feel the spirit…be defiled by bitterness and remain offended…now in SGs name! hahaha!
I don’t like these types of movies. They defile the spirit. It is not a higher level as you have said it is a base level of spiritual deception! Know it! Understand it! resist it!
I was there when they were escorted out…I remember, and really, what did you think was going to happen? It was his first day back at the pulpit and you two came like an ambush…I don’t remember HG being all that angry, but I also didn’t get why that was the only opportunity to do it…I can see both sides on that one.
And I can assure NO LEADER is hiding out…everyone conducts business as usual in Oceanside. though keep in mind, they all don’t live in O’side either.
MT-
* oh my gosh- im so scared….
I will be praying for you… You sound so angry… speaking of avoiding the truth- perfect example when Hal walked in the church BC had a panic attack… Having the ushers running around and yet they were afraid to approach Hal…. The enemy is that way… Their flesh burns when the children of God are near… Its a feeling of discomfort…
Whats happening at AFC- good morning friend… so, are you saying that they were not welcome in the sanctuary?
were they threatening to do something? Or was their presence too much to handle? It seems as if BC was not ready (as always) to tell the truth…
They didn’t go to the sanctuary…they weren’t escorted out because they were in praise and worship, they came specifically for one purpose and the demeanor was not promoting peace, I will say that… I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that situation either. I can see both sides, I don’t know why there hasn’t been a meeting with BC and SG/HG…I can’t answer for anyone.
I do know that people who have come back to AFC have been received and loved as if they had never left. I can’t speak on this happening a year ago, but I can say it is happening now.
Oh , and Good Morning! It’s a beautiful day to be alive in the company of people who are filled with the spirit of Christ… 🙂
REAL REPENTANCE
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20
Who among us has sinned? All of us, But the good news is this: When we do ask God’s forgiveness and turn out hearts to Him, He forgives us absolutely and completely. Genuine repentace requires more than simplyoffering God apologies for our misdeeds. Real repentance may start with feelings of sorrow and remorse, but it ends only when we turn away from the sin that has distanced us from our Creator. In truth we offer our most meaningful apologies to God, not with our words, but with our actions. As long as we are still engaged in sin, we may be “repenting” but we have not fully “repented” So if there is an aspect of your life that is distanceing you form God ask for his forgiveness and just as importantly stop sinning Now.
Father when We stray from Your commandments, Lord we must not only confess our sins, we must also turn from them. When we fall short help us to change. Forgive our sins Dear Lord and help us live according to Your plan for our lives. Your plan is perfect, Father; we are not. Let us trust in you….Amen
I was intersted in knowing how VL message was yesterday I wasnt able to make it the see him, and what the message was on and how he is doing with moving past the darts of fire he has had to face from all this
Love and peace to VL
God bless the kingdom and all of us at work in it……….
Ya know, this blog has gotten off track of the original discussion which is about the truth coming to light regarding the lies that are continuing to be told by BC. As far as the validity to the Guinn’s coming into the church to speak with BC, I know for a fact that the Guinn’s were NOT welcome in the church – at both 4055 and the new building. Ushers were told to watch them if they showed up because they ‘had a devil’. oooo… like everyone else who realized the truth and were blacklisted. I also know of someone who was personally preached against from the pulpit. Instead of showing love to people as we had learned as kids growing up (share, be nice, don’t say anything if you can’t say something nice, etc), we were taught at AFC that people not ‘like us’ were of the devil, had a devil that needed cast out, etc. There was NO ROOM for differences of opinion. If you had a different opinion at any point in your leadership experience and SPOKE IT, you were pulled from your position with no reason given, other than “you need to submit to what the leadership is doing” (and once again, YOU now have the devil- rebellion or something would be dreamed up).
I remember Hal showing up to the church at least three times and one time in particular him and Victor were followed closely at 4055 (including when they were in the part of the church by the bathrooms!!!!, the other 2 times I remember Hal standing at the back of the church minding his own business, waiting patiently for BC and COMMANDED to sit down. When he didn’t, all ushers were on HIGH ALERT for a ‘rebellious’ man with a devil at the back of the sanctuary. Another time, TC specifically asked someone why they thought Suzanne wasn’t talking to anyone from AFC, fishing for information that she did not get, as well as asking to find out who ‘knew’ what Suzanne knew. Remember, nobody was talked nicely about once they left for fear of what those people might reveal in conversation about what was going on – hence the preaching bashing of Vince. It’s all about controlling the people, not leading them.
When the leadership classes were held on Saturdays before corporate screaming (prayer), fruit was expected. However, when innocent, truthful USE of what was taught was put in place to the teams of people, leaders were told they were wrong, not doing it right, too this and too that – always not good enough, but it was exactly as they had been taught to do – giving others the input and opportunity for growth without accusation or fear of not being accepted. WHOA to those leaders who accepted their teammate’s ideas and strategies!
All in all, we were all part of a huge hoax called GAIN FOR BC and HIS POCKET, thinking it was God that was directing him and his ‘rules’. When we got out of the mess, we realized the ‘koolaid’ we had been drinking, repented to as many as possible for our part in the cultish activities and moved on to TRUE spiritual living – HEALTHY, family life.
I hope many of you can also realize that your families are who is suffering and not wait until it’s too late to run out of that coven.
Truth is, BC got a lot of people to buy in to his schemes, pad his pockets and live a life that has now come to light – a shameful, selfish, adulterous path. God knows all that transpired, will continue to transpire and I thank Him for allowing it to all come to light. It’s about time. The next step is for the IRS to take a serious look at the books, and ask questions! I know there is more to that than is written in obvious ink.
Too bad BC didn’t repent and take care of his sin when this all started. This could have been over by now, with an ‘intact’ church governed by honest leadership and oversight from reputable men of God. Now, we have this blogging going on that is opening up the bigger can of worms. Sad…
The past should rest in the past, we have moved forward from this, I apologize for those that have been hurt, I was too, but I believe we have turned from this approach and the leaders are new and carry different views, all of which have been expressed…
I don’t see the past leadership anymore. I do however, see the fruit of what restoration can bring…
I’ve met with many leaders including BC and I have never had a problem being open to discuss issues or concerns I have had.
I’m sorry that some of you haven’t had the same experience.
to don’t stop, please do stop. this discussion was not about BC’s issues, it was about Paula White’s issues. plus, it got off track when it started personal attacks and assumptions of people on both sides of the story. even my own posts could have been led to be assumptions but then the responses of the parties involved proved them to be more than assumptions but hitting the nail on the head.
“‘Seeking Truth Says:
May 1, 2008 at 7:52 pm
As a former member of AFC and still a member of the Body of Christ, I can say that I know both SG and BC personally. I also know how the leadership structure at AFC operates. If you question or have a differing opinion than that of leadership, you are automatically labeled as rebellious, coming against authority, or otherwise demonized.
To SG: I must say that I admire for the stand that you are making and I encourage you to continue in this battle to bring the truth to light. I have always known you to be a woman of bold faith and strong conviction with a heart that deeply loves the family of God as well as those who do not yet know Him. I stand with you in this battle no matter how difficult it may get. The fight for truth isn’t always a pretty fight but it is a ncessary one. I would much rather have someone look me in the eye or “on a blog” and tell me the truth than to deceive me with a lie.
I noticed that some of your comments on this post have been very bold and assertive, but I have no problem with them understanding the spirit that you are up against. BC has lied to his congregation about many things for many years.
SG, I know that I can trust you so be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might for He is with you and not against you.
By the way…why would it offend someone that you asked Ron Satrape about his credentials? When you go to the doctor don’t you want to know that he is qualified?’
‘Seeking Truth Says:
May 19, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Hey everybody,
…A little side note for those who need it, I am still not SG but you came close so from now on why not call me by my rightfull name…. HAL GUINN…'”
now I see why you got so upset about the whole avatar situation. i knew there was some validity to the whole thing. thanks again, for proving my point. again, it raises questions as to the validity of what’s being said and by whom. who knows, maybe somebody is posting on both sides of this story. it’s all a wash. have fun at your party. 😉 God Bless!
yes u can keep your same screen name on http://www.ambassadorfanily.net
To What’s happening at AfC- I’m not trying to be funny but did I miss something? You said that the new leaders are carrying different views and a different approach all of which has been expressed. I genuinly missed it. Please tell me what those different views and different approaches are. And thank you for your apology.
How does the blood taste guys? Your right this blog got off when a leach attached themselves to the subject. But I guess they needed something to give them a sense of importance! Blood anyone being served at SGs place. Go drink up! Can’t you see the fangs out now!!!
Whatever… get a life…would you!! Weak… pathetic…really weird! He talked to me also… but I didn’t act like some of you guys… I took into consideration all the pressure and treated him with respect. Which is probley not your style. So get over it…you choose…he choose! OK! He has a right! Cry.. whine and drink on!!
To God’s Word: VL and his brother tag team preached(rapped). It was encouraging. He was ministering on the great comission. He is spreading the gospel utilizing baseball as the tool all over the world. He admonished all of us to get our passports You can keep up with him by going on his web site- conqueringministries@yahoo.com
To Still Standing, I was referencing the fact that some people in the past who have come back to AFC were given the cold shoulder and not warmly welcomed back into the House of God. I know that this was brought up recently due to other members that have come back recently. The change in view is now (with the new leaders) that we welcome everyone back with open arms, no judgement, no opinions, just open acceptance.
The “exiled” point of view is not seen anymore. I would say anyone that has left peacefully would be more than welcome to come back and be received with love and compassion. Those that didn’t leave so peacefully, I believe, would also be welcomed.
I say this because this is what I have learned through the preaching and love I have been given pastorally. I really do feel bad for those that did not receive this. I know that current leadership has openly apologized to me and others that have left for not being more pastorally connected. I had a leader apologize for taking the focus off of personal ministry and focusing on the building.
It’s been a breath of fresh air. My hope is that everyone can come to a place of restoration. Myself included. I don’t know about all these bad spirits people keep talking about. I just know about the love, grace and accountability that leaders have given to me.
This is all I can speak on…and I ask, please don’t come down on my comments, I am only here to promote the love and peace of Christ. I only have my experience to draw on.
Also, it is great to see VL moving forward in the ministry that God has placed over his life. This is a great story of how people can move on and fulfill the mandate of God in spite of all the emotional trauma I am certain he has endured. Truly he has been restored.
To What’s happenig at AFC –
Thanks for the clarification not coming down on you at all just was trying to understand your comment.
From ginom to MT, I bet we’ve all pushed a plate back, lost some sleep, fought some demons for each other some time in the past. I hope we maintain respect for TRUE unity and hope that we allow God’s love in us to prevail after all is said and done.
For all the years that I’ve known BC, I have always spoken to him and about him with respect. He will tell you that himself. I remember one lady in the church told me that she approached BC in a way that made him uncomfortable. He told her, “Susanne would never talk to me that way.” BC knew that I loved him and honored him with great admiration and godly allegiance. We never had an awkward moment between us. I would email him directly regarding our comings and goings with ODMII. He was our overseeing Apostle and I reported to him weekly. He knew when we got back from Africa that I “knew.” We had a brief conversation at Super Sabado and that was the last time I ever spoke to BC. I tried for four years to meet privately with him, but he would not allow me to ask him the questions directly. Maybe he just couldn’t look me in the eye and lie to me. I guess that is a little respect, but the greater disrespect later on was lying to the whole community. After four years, we decided to go public. He knew in advance that we were going public. Why did we go public? Because so many people’s lives were being tore up. It was time to bring the truth out into the open to allow THE CHURCH to judge this situation accordingly.
You see, most of you guys just don’t get it do you? This public rebuke of BC and AFC is forcing change. They even admitted that above by stating that what I’ve done only makes them continue. At least they have all eyes watching them now and they have to do the right thing. For months now they have reviewed my comments to go right back to the church and implement strategies to change their course so they would not be found wanting by present and future members. They have a lot more work to do to get it just right, but I thank God that this blog has had a direct impact on the change that has come to AFC. The intention of this blog was to bring about repentance. And this is happening every day. Now go back and reread the AFC comments by it leaders and maybe you all will finally get the big picture that was there all along. Helloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
BC, remember the day we were climbing the hill on the property after the prayer meeting. Remember when I stopped half way up and took others by the hand to help them overcome a hurdle? Remember when I started back up the steepest incline in a full out run, but almost didn’t make it all the way and you reached out your arm and grabbed my arm? We locked arms and looked each other in the eye, remember the pause, and then you jerked me up the rest of the way? Many people here might not understand the significance of why it is Susanne Guinn that is helping to bring these things back into order, but I know you do. We both do. BC, prisoners are waiting on you to release ODMII back into the ministry under genuine headship again. We had to pull out. You would have taken us down with you. When you get back into this thing rightly, we’ll be able to finish what we started.
That comment was for BC. No one else needs to respond to it. Mind your business.
Well I should have known someone would take all the credit. Instead of giving it to God like it should be, but once again you just can’t resist can you!
Well on the other hand… I really do hope everyone can move forward. You might not get everything you hope for in the process but at least it is turning.
AFC has a mandate and those seeds aren’t dead!
I really don’t think he was afraid of you… that has me laughing so hard!
Another thing… this is getting closer to a enviroment where people can get healed! It may take him awhile to heal up from all the years of internal turmul and regret and remorse and pain! It may not happen the way you desire but I believe God has things in His hands and will prevail in end! Victory will prevail in all who seek a Him. “Unto Him who is able to complete that in which He has started until that day”
May all of those who left begin to live forward and be healed because they trust in Christ. Let us mourn for a great leader who has been pruned so he may bring forth fruit that remains.
May all bear fruit of kingdom addition.
May all of us learn how fragile and in need of humility and grace we are…
WOW no blood sucking tonight! Miracles do happen!!!( KINDA )
MT…………Shut up!! Man, you’re such a nag………………
Oh, I’m sorry MT, you go right ahead and keep up the great work you’re doing. I know you need this opportunity and we’re happy to give you a forum. Please…..you were saying…..
Hey everybody….Hal and I went to dinner tonight and on the way home we passed AFC. We were saddened to see the church being loaded up and hauled away. We took a moment and remembered the good old days when the family of God was whole and humble. We realized that the church’s character was not ready for that building. We got ahead of ourselves. It looks like AFC will return to those humble beginnings and I don’t think that is a bad thing. AFC you’re getting a second chance to do it right. Remember to give Jesus all the glory in everything. Learn to embrace the sanctified life of the believer. It is a joy to live free from the bondage of sin. Grace is our deliverer not our enabler. Learn to repent quickly and honestly. Take off all the masks and learn to be real with one another. Stop lording over each other and quit quibbling over who is leading who where. Throw that whole idea about leading others into doing things they don’t really want to do out the window. If people are not called to a particular service don’t make them feel bad about that. Let people be who they are. Remember leaders are not the only ones who love God. People choose to attend church because they already want to serve Him. Don’t turn their loyalty to Jesus toward obedience to you…..don’t get in God’s way any longer. Let Him speak to his people and let Him show you how to serve this community in a way that unifies people around Jesus Christ not around you or your “vision.” In others words, don’t make it about you this time. Make it about Him and maybe you’ll experience something real and eternal this go around. We’re all praying for you………..but there will be one more round of cleansing in the leadership team. Satrape, you might as well call it like you see it and go ahead and do what needs to be done. If you don’t do it, I’m confident God will.
Let us know when you all get settled in and we’ll come visit.
Praise God, I was at church tonight, packing up the building, and it’s bittersweet.
We put so much focus into “four walls” and what it represented, yet so many people were hurt and wounded. Then we look over in the horizon and see this glimmer of hope that we can restore to where we started. And then on the inside is this burning desire to save the lost.
I laughed with so many people tonight, hugged on my sisters in Christ, got to know ones that I didn’t know so well…it feels good. I feel like moving forward is going to keep me moving in my direction that God has called for me. I can’t wait to start making more memories.
I’m closely connected with the leadership at AFC, and all I know is where we have been is not where we are going. We were too focused on what people could do for AFC and not what we could do for them. I said it, I know its true.
But restoration is such a powerful word.
I appreciate your comments SG. I believe that you meant that from your heart. I know you have been hurt, I acknowledge it. I don’t defend BC because I don’t know and don’t agree with everything being said about him. However, that does not diminish the fact that you have been hurt. I feel it in my spirit that there were times you were looking for someone to help you and when you went to the church there was no one there to comfort you.
I believe that you have been mistreated and given unfair treatment. I don’t know that any of this is true or not but when you take the anger and bitterness aside, I read a woman who was once broken. I see you bringing yourself through restoration and though its a grueling process you have started to make your way to the other side.
I believe in you, and I believe that people like VL, you will have established yourself in your own ministry as the restoration process transitions into you going out and preaching the gospel. No one is a better giver of advice than the person who has already been through it.
Love, Unity, Peace, Grace….I hope we all find this, I find little pockets of it everyday.
Everything to God, all the time.
To What’s happening at AFC, I am very impressed with your insight, compassion openness and willingness to acknowledge the feelings of others who believe they have been ‘thrown away’ by their one time church. You have opened up your heart and your mind to recognize how so many others could be feeling. AFC obviously has people like yourself with great character and leadership ability still in attendance, and that is wonderful. My hope is that this same spirt that you express will somehow soak into whoever is now in charge of AFC.
I believe that your posts speak volumes of who you really are, a caring person who loves the Lord and all of His people, and I wish the best for you and your family. I am, not so convinced that the ‘new leadership’ who was a part of the ‘old leadership’ is able to change their perception, treatment and honest care of people who don’t agree with total submission to their will. I am not saying this is impossible for them, but I do believe they have some hurdles to overcome.
First and formost Barry should decide if he is in, or is he out. His picture may not be on the landing page of the website, but his voice is there and images of him still dominate the other pages. His leadership style, dominance and influence over the church and current leaders, whether openly or covertly is still there. Hopefully the freedom that you are currently experiencing (while others were banished) isn’t because Barry has not personally been around on Thursday and Saturdays. Time will tell.
In past times, if you had true leadership abilities, without submission you were considered a threat to the monarchy. I pray that does not happen to you and I wish you would continue to express yourself on this blog. If the people who in charge now would rub elbows with members like you more often, they might be able to learn something about taking care of people.
I will also say that I have a great appreciation for what AFC was (in spite of leadership flaws) and what it can be in the future. The sooner the resolution of who is leading AFC into the future is established, the better. One way or another, somebody has to step up as the senior leader, openly and publicly acknowledge past wrongs, and sincerely apologizeto folks. Personally I don’t understand why that is so hard or diffcult for anyone to understand. Congratulations and never stop being you!
To What happening.
Thank you for your comments. I’m not sure what you were looking at when you said, “I see,” but again you’ve missed the mark.
First and foremost: I am neither bitter or angry. I do not apologize for who I am and for the stand that I have made here. My healing came a long long time ago, way before this blog and way before AFC. I’m not asking you do justify why you think I’ve done what I’ve done. I’ve said it many times in my own words and I will say it again. It was not about ME, it was about repentance …… the turning away from sin at AFC.
I came to AFC in 1998 because I am a Christian who believes in establishing her local church in her local area and beyond. I was looking for a place where I could link up arms with some God fearing, people loving, devil hating mighty men and women of God to plunder hell with and populate heaven. My hurt, as you say, was watching the misconduct and years of denial while hundreds of people were torn apart. In this time who knows how many countless unsaved persons did not hear the gospel preached because of REALLY bad judgement on the part of AFC leaders when they disowned all the people who had real spiritual depth. Yes that includes me and my husband. We are fully confident that God will redeem, once again, what man has lost in his own pursuit of himself. Now that Jesus has the attention of the people again, maybe we can all get back to doing what God has called us to do in this territory and in others.
You see, I’ve been at the other side waiting on AFC to catch up for a long time. Believe it or not, this stand had to be taken and it had to be taken just the way it was done. The level of deception warranted it. Period. I do not take it back. Not one word. In the end THE CHURCH will be retored and God will get all the glory as HIS word promises.
I’ve always believed in what God could do through AFC. This blog did not ever change that. Eventually, you’ll SEE that and you will not get it wrong when and if we finally do meet. Sure, we all want love and acceptance, but honestly I don’t have an ounce of the fear of man. NONE. I love all of you, but I strongly encourage you hold your “prophetic sight seeing trips” for when you know exactly who you are and exactly where you going. I’m there.
When we see you again, we’ll know if the words you speak are genuine or just an attempt to appease the crowd on this blog after the upset you experienced from the AFC Leader post. I reserve the right to experience TRUTH first hand before I buy into anything. But I do give you the benefit of the doubt and I will give us the opportunity. It is a bit of a shame that the AFC leaders have still not called us directly. You’ll have my fpublic endorsement once I’m able to verify for myself what is Happening at AFC.
BC is out . I am sure those images will be removed in upcoming days my friend! I don’t think he is looking to pastor right now and maybe never again.
That is up to God! You can thank RS while your taking credit. He is doing what he said he would… with maturity and respect for ALL involved! But still taking care of business.
BC in not there because… this was a long grueling process on him personally. He needed to clear his head and his heart.
ALSO and maybe more importantly…He needed to get his hurt self out of the way so no one else got hurt. He is submitted to his resoration and delieverence process!
I know you might launch for blood now but I am going to say it…I think he is becoming very sorry for all the crap… I have heard him say and watched him weep just trying to speak about it. He is way on the other side right now. Meaning he just feels like trash. God will heal him and he will get stronger and both AFC AND BC will live to see a greater day!
RS is doing a good job, he might not be doing it my or your way. But then again this is what God has called him to do.
I think this process will prune the attachment from RLM in which BC came from, all those spirits and leadership examples will be pruned! You know what I am saying. He sustained some pretty abusive leaders himself. This may have been what it took to get that out of him.
It is sad AFC had to move but they had a terrible loan package. BC didn’t get any money from the deal I assure you… he was stretched for 4YRS now. Most of his money was from book sales and investments… I understand! Because of all the construction court case and other diffuculties his finances were under constant observation by outside audits. Several a year for at least 4yrs to be exact!
I do think God has called BC to be a spiritual spartan and the body of christ would really benefit from a man like him… who has gotten a God molded character… to comeback and slay more devils the second time than he did the first. This time with out the building focus and more kingdom focus. Based on people…love, mercy and acceptance!
BC is rare anointing. But he always seemd to feel uncomfortable around people. Many thought because he preached so hard he was just a people person but I saw a differnt side. He could be shy and introvert at times. He use to hate the direct attention. That is one reason he found it hard to relate. I think he is learning the true value of connections!
So SG I hate to do this (hehe) but your last post about various forms of leadership errors are things that I hear BC is really coming to grips with now. That he is at that point in understanding right now and really is crushed by what he sees and decisions he has made.
Again for the record…Some of your post on leadership are really ignorant to true leadership. Don’t use this as a oppurtunity to post your waterdowned version of let me do whatever I won’t or it is not acceptence or true leadership.
Anyone who has raised godly children or leads a group of people know this as a fact. I hear some out of balence leadership stuff coming up here that makes it seem like you live in a dream world as a leader. I thought I could lead until I got out of the marine core and found that in the free world it took serious skills to balence correction and stay sensitive to peoples concerns. Most pastors are push overs as leaders and feel thay are not called to lead… just something they do to be a pastor. People who don’t know how to lead always try to neuter them in personality and spirit.
Maybe cook will discover he was never called to be a pastor but something else in the kingdom and maybe that is part of what started some internal tomoil…maybe because of this misaligment in office…caused undue stife at home and ?????? I am like the rest of you in some ways just giving some thoughts here. Whatever.. I hope BC finds God, finds character, finds leadership finds genuine care and compassion and finds healing in companionship!
Who knows in a perfect world maybe all of them will minister together on the same platform one day! BC, TC, VL, CR AND MAYBE OTHERS. WOULDN’T THAT BE A TRUE MIRACLE!!!
To MT: Noone said to let everybody do what they want. Boy, I’m glad you are in GA and not here to be apart of this process. You were obviously mentored under such an abusive leadership style ONLY that you do not have the dimensions needed to understand that scripturally leadership is about SERVING others not LORDING over them. Your post describe you as an abusive, tryrannical person that has probably been very unsuccessful in personal relationships. You think people don’t get you, but they do. You lack quite a bit of humility. One day you’ll get it……who you really are in Christ and put all the macho man stuff down. You don’t need it.
Back to What’s Happening! Sorry for the interruption. Kids you know.
I too recognize the honest attempt to reach out with an olive branch to those who’ve left AFC. This is truly commendable and I thank you.
We have some distance to go, but I’m sure WE’ll get there.
Again, thank you.
Nobody needs your endorsment! What the heck is the matter with you. About the time I think you are not spiritually off and full of your self…BAM!!!!You drop your drawers and and show your selfcentered butt again. Come on SG!
Ok…because you are the big bad blog queen critic…we will all wait at your feet for your approval…oh great one!!!
Now I am becoming convinced…AFC… don’t trust her…don’t listen to her twisted and mixed perspectives. Chew up the meat and spit out the fat.
Holy moly…Then why don’t you go get hooked up with your pastors vision and PLUNDER HELL AND POPULATE HEAVEN! Oh great one!
You are not the food critic, the movie critic or the church critic. No one must meet your expectations. The fact that you think so… is opposite of everything you have been writing about and holding them accountable for…
AFC…see what I mean…you guys keep going…but it would be very harmful to allow someone like her to be your judge and official approval master. Hello…oh my gosh…SG you were doing so good.
Better put on repelent everyone the blood sucker has now appointed herself as offical judge and critic.
Someone should visit her pastor! If I wasn’t in humid GA I would!
That was good in concept but strange and mixed and easy to see through in application! Come on now!!!
Like it or not MT, I have a voice. Sorry, if that threatens your man hood, but unlike some, I feel a responsibility to my community. And bebore I publically tell people that their families and finances are safe at AFC, I will JUDGE this situtation for myself, which is exactly what the current AFC leaders are asking for. They want us to see that they have changed just like they’ve posted. I’m basically saying, “Okay show me.” If they are who they say they are, they will gladly accommodate.
MT, the AFC leaders are turning away from your preferred leadership style of abusive control. Let it go friend. That Jezebel spirit is DEAD and eaten up by the dogs. The sound of blood being licked up is what is in your hearing. It the sound that of the counterfeit church being destroyed while the Virtuous Church arises to take her place in NC.
Deal with it.
Everything you just accused me of is what you just did to me. Its getting alittle clearer here everyone can’t you see it.
All your blogs from beginning to end have had these tones of a island to themselves. You can’t touch me or say anything to me or I will suck blood from you… and it is ok… because You are of God. But anyone else comes on the same level just different… then they have a bad, off spirit.
ISN’T THIS WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN ACCUSING AFC… PAST… OF DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe God took you and other like you out. In the same way you think they are wrong. Now there attitude and spirit is changing but you are still doing it. Listen to her… twist and slither while yelling out christian concepts.
SG stay humble yourself…because you disqualify…yourself by continuing to make yourself queen mother critic…know it all!
I was really starting to believe you might be genuine. But I am not sure now!
I know…I know you don’t have to prove anything to me…Only they must prove themselves to you or some twist to that concept while still maintaining your oponion!
Hide your open wound quick. Slurp…slurp…hear her coming.
My manhood threatened by you…hahahahahahah…you should be a comedian in your “off” time…oh yea you are “OFF” most the time…hahahaha…I’m so funny!
I said VERY CLEAR… but your retention level must not be very high…that I had to learn things coming out of the Marine Core about leadership in the real world. I did learn and am having great success with God and man. That type of leadership is not supported…I said the opposite. You once again took it out of context framed it into your rebutle and tried to toss it back in a different form.
How many people do you lead? How diverse is your group? How do you conciliate disagreements? You are a island…ASK HER PASTOR YALL…YOU WILL SEE!!
You should stay where you are good. Judging people and having no life outside of your idenity as a soup opera critic! All hail the queen!!!
MT-
take a chill pill…. besides you dont sound like a marine or a child of God that you claim… Your words speak hate and death and blood sucking (whatever that is)… Besides, let Barry speak for himself…. Just relax and enjoy the sun in GA… Peace!
SG despite what you may have thought I was trying to convey in my posts what “I see” was merely an interpretation of what was written. I don’t know you personally, I know nothing about you, but a person can see through the writing, anyone can.
I don’t believe I “missed the mark” because I wasn’t going after it. And I do honestly believe that some of your remarks show bitterness and anger, I didn’t say that you were an angry and bitter woman. All of which I could understand based on what I know has happened with the church. I reread through some of your posts before coming to that conclusion.
I have never expected you to believe everything I have said about AFC. I get that, my hope was never to sway you, or make you believe otherwise. I was only here to show the progress. Everyone kept saying what they knew about AFC, but no one could speak on what was happening now. Details and statements emerged from things that have happened prior.
I say this with as much grace as I can, but based on some of the comments, I believe there is a tendency to look at the negative of what people are saying instead of seeing the good. My post to you was nothing more than as you have said, an olive branch.
I really do feel bad for everyone that has been hurt. I feel like we could have and should have done more. I have been in leadership meetings asking why we failed some of our flock in pastoral care, really, no one has any idea of the questions I have posed to leadership and BC. And, it’s not just me. There are others who have spoken up and not been rebuked. We have been asked to submit ideas of what and how we can change things, and a lot of the suggestions are now implemented.
Things are changing. I believe that you want to see AFC restored, I believe you love BC and want to see him restored in whatever that means for you. And again, I realize that people have been broken and hurt in this process. I am still going through my own process.
I felt a little attacked after your post but I won’t comment why, it’s not conducive to moving forward in peace and unity.
But to clear my own heart I will say that I know who I am in Christ, I know who I have been called to be, I know what I am called to do, I know where the ministry God gave me resides, I know that I know I am the apple of His eye. I believe in the heart of Christ, and His forgiveness, his grace is sufficient, and His hand is upon me.
I cannot change the people that have hurt you and others, I am however committed to serving the people of God with a Sprit of Excellence, I am part of AFC because I belong there.
To HG, Thank you so much for your encouragement. Your comments humble me and I am thankful. I did want to say that BC has been closely connected with the leadership despite his none appearance at the pulpit. I have had many conversations with him over the past three months that have given me great insight into what restoration really means and how to move forward when so many people want to see us fail.
We receive e-mails, and words of encouragement from our leader and are thankful that he is taking the time to heal from his own wounds. We want to see him back doing what we has been called and prophecied to do. I know its hard for many to accept that, but I believe in God and His process.
If you aren’t already experiencing it, I pray that everyone here is able to move forward in the vision that God has placed over you. We are the church. We make the decision to love, accept, restore and bless others. The ministry didn’t make me into who I am, AFC didn’t make me into who Iam either, it was the unconditional everlasting love of my Father, Jesus Christ.
I thank you Lord.
MT, I am curious, who told you BC was out? I believe that statement to be false. He is more involved now then he ever has been even though he’s not at the pulpit. The web was not changed because of his departure, it was changed because we are an Antioch church, we are a team of people, not one person leading the congregation. He is still the lead pastor.
Whats happening at AFC–
Jesus has blessed you with a sense of peace to bring to this blog… Your leadership skills will impact many… Continue serving the Lord my friend… I love the praise reports…
to BC and RS- why havent we set up a meeting?!? I want to come back and visit and feel welcomed again, but BC we need to clear the air… I have seen way too much, and I just want answers to my questions… I love you BC – i have no ill feelings towards you… just want answers to the things I saw…
To Okay and…
Thank you for your comments. God has an amazing way of showing His love in every circumstance.
I don’t know if BC reads this or not, but I believe your heart, and I believe your spirit. Some of us are ready with open arms to welcome back those that have left even if only for a visit. If you are unable to get your meeting, I still hope that you at some point are able to release your hurt to God if you have not already done so.
I pray for your healing and restoration with a peace that surpasses all understanding.
Blessings to you today.
To whats happening
Thank you for coming out openly and letting everybody know that BC is still firmly in control of the goings on at AFC. Once again we are asking for the leader (BC) to come out and address the church regarding the numeruos allegations that stand before him. Having multiple people minister from the pulpit is not something new at AFC, that antioch pattern has been in place for years now. Make no mistake ,those people are not the leader, they are doing exactly what BC wants them to do…. that is why they are there. We are still calling for BC to repent and come clean to this community.
Anything less, is just superficial and nothing more than a mere bandaid.
Leadership continuing under a nonrepentant leaders is still corrupt leadership.
BC, you can’t hide behind your team.
I wish the DNA test was done too, then it would prove the innocence of a man that has a mandate to preach the gospel. I wish CL would just give into it already, and not let an innocent man take the fall for her indiscretion.
Yep, I said it.
Okay, whats happening….now we see the jest of your posting.
I’m sorry, but no one that I have spoken to, and I have spoken to many people, believe that anyone else is the father but BC. The older the boy gets, the identity of his father is clear.
I do appreciate what you’ve tried to do here, but the whole, “it’s her fault routine,” is cliche.
Please don’t feel that we don’t value you as a person because that is not the case. However, you’ve just shown us all that you’ve also been bewitched by BC. I’m sorry and I hope that when the truth does come out regarding the paternity of RR, you will not loose your faith. You’ve already said that your faith has nothing to do with AFC or BC, but that it came from Jesus Christ. I believe you meant that and when tested you’ll excel in the challenge before you. God bless you and if you ever need anything, Hal and I are here for you.
You’re a dear saint and I thank God for you. Be blessed in Him always.
And, I realize your position Hal, I just hope through all of your judgment on AFC being full of corrupt leaders, that somewhere you can find the hope in seeing restoration come to everyone involved.
I’ll be honest, I almost took offense to your comment until I realized that I can understand why you would say that.
From the very beginning of my posts, I have made it very clear that our pastor is still VERY MUCH our senior pastor. This was never a detail I tried to omit or hide in any way.
I don’t know you, but I do hope that at some point, if it hasn’t happened already, you can find peace in this situation.
We all believe in the same God, the God of reconciliation, the God of Peace …
A past leader gave me a book on all the names of God and this one is my favorite:
Jehovah R’Kowm, The Compassionate God…Psalm 103:8 “The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.
My husband just said something to me after he read the post above. He said, “We all have a mandate to preach the gospel. That does not excuse adultery.” I have to say, I agree.
Whats happening….please don’t take this the wrong way, but my husband did not ask for your “ministry” to him. He doesn’t need it. You’re crossing the line and leaning toward a spirit that is not welcome. We reject you rwords outright and ask that you refrain from your presumed place of superiority over myself or my husband. We are both asking nicely. We DO NOT want your advise. Thank you.
Thank you SG, I believe with all sincerity you are devoted to God. And to touch on what you said, AFC did not save me, it was God. No matter what happens in life, I have learned that even the best of people will fail, God never does. He is my strength and my provider.
CL was a friend of mine, I do not agree with the “its all her fault” cliche. My heart would never be to shift blame on her despite what it might have sounded like. At this point, I just want to see restoration where it is needed. I have my own thoughts, just as you do. It doesn’t mean that I can’t still do Kingdom work and co-labor beside you and your husband AND see the work bear fruit.
I’ve spent a lot of time with RR, and he is so precious. I guess I just don’t see what you all see. I’m sorry, you can call me bewitched, heck you can call me anything you want. I won’t have any hard feelings.
I’ve been failed by more people than I can count. I stand here today with a clear conscience that everything I have done with AFC has been done for God and God only. He’s the only one that matters to me, I don’t need to please man.
Thank you for your kind words. I do appreciate them, really, I do.
I guess I am not sure what “ministry” you are referring to. I was just being sincere.
MT….it is not spelled Marine Core…..It is spelled Marine Corp….
Semper Fi
Yes, I know you believe that you are just being sincere, but you are sincerely wrong about a lot of things. We are just not taking the time to point it out.
Please take some time to address someone else on the blog. You have no more influence with Hal or I.
I know you won’t try to push yourself on us because that would be just like the “old AFC” that you are no longer a part of right???
State your case if you desire, but you might as well know now that you’ve lost your voice where we are concerned. We did not say we hate you, we just said we do not give you any place in our hearing. We bless you and ask that you respect our request and move along to address another personal specifically and /or just continue stating your opinions generally.
Thank you.
To Everyone Else:
I believe that the Goodness of God will manifest itself in and out of this blog.
Everyone, be strong in the Lord and do not conform to the ways of this world.
I continue to stand in a church that I believe in.
A co-worker that came to our Women’s Brunch last month told me this past week that she was prayed for at the altar and delivered, and shortly after her husband rededicated himself to Christ. She has received financial blessings, and is moving forward in areas she though were dead.
It doesn’t matter what the world says, God is still working.
Back to the point of the blog since the October post:
We ask that Barry Cook meet with us to address the allegations before him. We, being many, believe that you have abused your position in the local church in ways that betrayed the trust of good people who believed they were submitted to a Godly man. So many members and leaders of AFC have described to me detailed accounts of misconduct by Barry Cook. These people are not presuming or misinterpreting anything. They saw what they saw. They experienced first hand some very disturbing things. Please call a meeting of the majority and allow us the opportunity to address you directly. No one may stand in proxy for you. We ask that you repent before the community and allow the community to respond to you directly.
As long as Barry Cook continues to operate as someone who is perceived to be in spiritual authority in NC, these allegations must be addressed. If Barry Cook resigns and is no longer taking public donations as income, than he is released from our inquiry.
Please contact us anytime.
Thank you.
SG…slurp…slurp…you just can’t resist having such a double standard can you. You write them off with one mistake …they said I’m sorry… and you cut them off and out. WOW…Do AFC a favor and don’t go back. You just showed our fanny again!!!
After you blog over and over and on and on… about… they are not of God… they are mean and controlling …they turn people away and don’t recieve everyone and then… there you go!!! DOING IT YOURSELF!
Once again I am not very sure BC is still in charge. I don’t think so buckaroos! He may have friendships and give advice but I don’t know…if he is willing or able right now!
What’s happening at AFC…be careful of her… as you can see…she has no problem biting and devouring. Most of her comments that she post against BC and others she has and is still doing now…cross her and watch what happens…she can’t help it…”SHE CAN DISH IT OUT BUT CAN’T TAKE IT” Her kindness last about a …..minute!!
Don’t you know she makes no errors…and everyone believes just like her…anyone else is wrong period..listen to her…
Now Whats happening…you have lost your influence…whew…oh no…she will no longer listen or accept you…matter of fact …never address them anymore… because you are not good enough…. now…Do you feel and hear that pile of poop? Double standard!
Integrity…rightouness…accuracy…no excuses…bla bla bla… woman speak with forked tounge!
I would love to see everyone get along…so would Rodney King…but that isn’t reality. We can disagree without seeing eye to eye on everything. But getting that concept through her isn’t going to work. I followed these blogs for months before seeing the clear patterns. But I was gualible also…I really thought she was just hurt and mouthing off…But she isn’t hurt…no one could be so mean on a consistent basis…tonight was a another clear example.
A. Once again who is your pastor SG? B. Do you submit to him and his oversight…according to scripture…not a warped version of control and manipulation…just plain obedience to scripture!
C. What area of ministry do you work in? D. Or… are you above that also?
The answer is…..”D”…thats right folks… another example of people doing her wrong and misinterpreting her motives. It is much clearer than little RR being BCs baby. And you don’t even need to take a test… all her blogs are her test…DNA is in… she is guilty!!!
I am just asking because you sound so good then head stright down in the gutter…everytime. You have said well yourself…you need healing. I will pray and believe with you for that…if you could get your zeal towards growing the kingdom you would be a blessing.
I do not believe thet RS would not meet with you. Did he not speak with you on the phone? That is what I heard.
Did you not blast him by telling him you did not recieve his authority and on and on disrespect him on other blogs…. and the answer is….YES that is exactly what you did. Give me another break! I could quote your other blogs but I would rather hear your excuse because you are very entertaining…I have to admit!!
Goodnight queenie!Goodnight to all!!
To All Those Who Assume:
Please do not assume that you know everybody’s hurts, pains, angers, frustrations and heartaches. Those who have left, have done so for a reason. Whether by their own decision, or by God moving them on. Some have left and became stronger, others have left and suffered great pain and even loss. Some have been able to deal with their situations, some have not been able to deal with their situations, and some have not had any situations to worry about. Their time at AFC was a blessing and will forever be remembered as a wonderful place to worship together with their brothers and sisters in the Lord.
If you assume that because of these mistakes in the leadership of AFC past, as well as the mistakes of BC, have caused ALL those who are currently attending, in leadership, or assisting AFC or BC in any way are being manipulated or controlled, I implore you stop with the assumptions. There are God-Fearing, Jesus loving, Spirit-Filled, tongue talking on fire for Christ individuals amongst those that you attack. If your issues are with BC then don’t assume that because somebody doesn’t agree with you they are “bewitched… controlled… manipulated… twisted… evil… etc…” Remember that we are all One body and within that, the Family of God. Yes, the Body of Christ does extend beyond the four walls of any church, it also reaches beyond of the borders of county, state, and nation. Also, please do not assume that some of those who are involved with AFC, even the ones that have been for years, have not been hurt, frustrated, disappointed, upset, or had feelings or loss or betrayal. Many remain because they’ve been able to see past the humanity that is involved with the church and remained faithful to where God has placed them.
It would be quite easy to assume from both sides of this situation. I ask that you see Christ in everyone, love on your brother and sister as would have them to love you. Believe the best for all those involved and let God be the judge of everybody’s heart. I have my own thoughts and some or most of them may very well be assumptions. I would never assume that any of you cannot hear God for yourself. In doing so, I would be placing myself in a greater “spirituality” than you, and I would never let that thought come to mind and just the mere thought that you might think that I’m saying anything to that degree would cause me great heartache. Of course, you’re asking what is my agenda for posting a comment? The main point I am trying to make is that on both sides of this situation, there appear to be assumptions made about people, some have been some very bad assumptions, some have been very good assumptions. Now, of course, this is my point at this time. If I get dragged into a conversation, I may try to make other points as well but at this point in time, I’m just hoping that both sides can come to an understanding that we are all walking the walk, if we choose to, that God has laid before us. And we can’t assume that just because the person next to me isn’t walking the same walk, they’re any more right or wrong than me. We should be assuming for the best… that would be faith.
5And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
We are commanded to walk in love, by walking in love, we walk in God. Without love, we do not know God. I believe that we should choose our words very carefully when dealing with one another as not to cause offense, or be a stumbling block that would allow our enemy a foothold in any of our lives.
You may think that I have made assumptions with my own post, but I urge you to re-read this post if you think that I have. I have only stated examples of both sides of the story that I have read here myself. You may feel free to dismiss or dispute this but I assure you that my heart is pure in sharing the love of Christ with you all.
Now, please allow me these assumptions… of faith.
We all love Christ, our Lord and Saviour who died for each and everyone of us.
We all believe in His Word as a guide and lamp into and for our lives.
We all love one another, as brothers and sisters in the Lord and care for the soul of each person here, that each of us will make it into heaven and share eternity with our Creator and Father.
As long as we walk on this earth, we have a carnal mind to consistently wash in the Word to have renewed.
We are always fighting principalities and powers and rulers of darkness to see God’s Kingdom established on earth as it is in heaven.
We were all lost, on our way to hell, living a life that was a sham and a shame but when we fell in love and chose to live the rest of our lives with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, we were redeemed from that life into a new life with glorious and wonderous works being done in and through our lives, realizing how wretched, miserable and lost we could be if it was not for the love of our Father in Heaven and His true desire to have us walking with Him.
I love each and every one of you with the love of OUR Lord and Savior, and desire that His love will continue to reign in all of your lives. May he speak to you as he did to Moses, and may you be the apple of His eye as David was. May He comfort you in times of weakness, may He be your refuge and strength. May He be your sword and shield in times of battle, and may He be the love that you show to those who need it. May your families walk in the ways of our Lord. May your relationship with Christ be more intimate than ever before.
God bless each of you and again, I love you all!
SG- I say this MT person knows a little too much… First he says that he is fond with CR and now he reveals that RS spoke with you over the phone… Its awkward…. Is that BC? who knows…Might be just hiding behind a name (MT) to slander the people that come against him… Just a thought…
I’ve been reeding and not posting… I am not saying that its not posible cuz anything is these days but in my wildest imagnation would have never thought that MT could possibly be BC?… Were did you come up with that one?… I don’t think you know him to say that…WOW!! I’ve been quiet but that last one made me have to at least ask where you would come up with it?… Sorry… I’ll go back to my reading… continue.
What’s Happening, i commend you! i did not see you as trying to minister to anybody but share your heart and the experiences that you’ve gone through along with this whole process. from the hurts and pains, to the restoration and now the rebuilding. i encourage you. it’s not easy to put your heart out there, especially in regards to such delicate matters and situations as these. your comments are uplifting to my spirit and a joy to read. please continue is all i ask but do not do so if at your expense, others may try to belittle your comments to assume that you are trying to minister to anyone, i mean God forbid, He did call us ministers of reconciliation. but again, i don’t think you were ministering to anybody and it’s a shame that somebody would try to “put you out” simply for sharing your heart. your approach is better, more loving and kind, and perhaps Christ-like than mine, as obvious by this post, but i’m sure you hear my heart in saying, GOD BLESS YOU!! 🙂
lol @ WOW… it was just a thought… Why would Ron Satrape tell anyone esp MT about a phone conversation between him and SG? I thought these things were confidential in the church…. It’s just way too weird… What?!? Did Ron Satrape brag about the phone conversation to the congregation by accident? Or could it be that RS informed BC and BC alone about the conversation that he had with SG?
If MT is not BC, then why in the world would Ron Satrape speak about a phone conversation to someone that is not spiritually equipped to handle the situation… Unless Ron Satrape informed leaders of the church on that phone conversations (which i doubt, but who knows) and just so happens that MT is a current leader at AFC and not living in GA….
Anyway, it was just a thought…
Hey guys been out of town and good to be back.
MT you are playing some ball. I love the blood sucking theme. The queenie thing is great. But the observations about SGs inconsistent and double standards are just what I’m screaming!
Becuase of that, and other things, she is unqualified herself to bring about a judgement.
BC isn’t trying to lead anyone right now except himself and his daughter. I told you that before I left. I told you about the CR thing also. You deal with it! I told you how it was effecting him.
I told you how extravgantly we need to Forgive like the woman in the alabaster box. Judas could not deal with that issue, read the story yourself, Judas was a betrayer and was greedy, scr says. huuuummmm!!!
Here goes, YOU DON’T HAVE AUTHORITY TO SPEAK TO ME I AM OFFENDED, AND BETTER THAN YOU yea yea yea!!
Hey here is a thought maybe BC feels the same way about you!!
( Oh that was good )
Also, you should not hold your breath, well maybe you should, anyway, You were not close to him, the lies keep coming. I think he knew you had huge control issues and your husband was a angry man it didn’t take disearnment! I believe he loved you and believed in you anyway. He did because that is how he treated me and hundreds of others.
Remember when Hal cursed out VL, JS AND GT that was classic! hahaha
My wife just reminded me of the letter you sent out all over the nation saying “BC and TC convinced CR to have the baby because TC wasn’t able to conceive so they talked the Limons into being seragate(?) mother! Can you say conspirisy theory! You have been a nut for along time now.
Oh my side hurts!
It isn’t BCs kid.
He didn’t take VLs wife from him, VL managed to do that himself.
Everyone of the staff and leadership always had access to him at anytime.
He did not divorce because of CR ,or control and stuff with TC. You don’t even know what they have been through. He is not anywhere near perfect. You just don’t know and probley never will!
You would not have stayed married if you would have delt with his situation. I assure you I am not bashing TC, just saying you don’t get it. They needed to take a break. Let’s just say it that way. TC had not been in a good place for very long time. Maybe they should have taken a break sooner.But i believe they loved God and the people of God! Finally BC also started to run thin after the construction issues were mounting!
Let AFC go, Pharoh let Go! I said that earlier I felt it again.
SG -That kind person was trying to encourage and you smashed them. That was so ungodly. Then belittled them, that was incredible. Then turn around and demand of BC again. Your end does not justify your means.
BC- If you can hear me. Heal up man of God. I wish I could be there at AFC helping the new leaders.
Love to everyone.
To BC and TC
To VL and CR
To SG and HG
To whats happening at AFC
Power Love and a sound mind to all!!!!!!!!!!
Avatar Expert-
I for once agree with you that “whats happening at AFC” has a good heart… I can tell by her posts…
Whats Happening at AFC-
I will consider visiting AFC no matter how I feel about BC… I want to come not to judge who the leaders are and who worships in the sanctuary, but to pray with fellow christians… To bring peace and freedom to this situation… You know that I have no ill feelings towards the new AFC and the new leadership team… I also dont have ill feelings towards BC, I just want him to come clean with what I have seen through my years at AFC…
Anyways- i want you to know that I respect your stand for Peace… I thank you for the comforting words you bring to those who were hurt through the whole ordeal…
Walk in Love, good words. a bit long-winded (i’m only kidding) but good. i will try my best to walk in love and choose my words wisely.
okay, we agree on something? just kidding. i’m sure you will be welcomed and i’m sure you will find some praying people at AFC when you arrive. i know this, they are excited about what God is doing and look forward to “rebuilding”. looking forward to hearing of your experience at AFC, i’m sure it will be a good time, please let us know how it goes. if anything, i’m sure people like What’s Happening and myself would like to hear a little feedback but please if there are “needs of improvement” share those with love, grace and truth. even if it’s not the nicest thing to say, as long as you communicate with love, as Walk in Love was saying, i’m sure your point will be heard. God Bless!
Thank you so much for the blame to be Dr. Cook. WOW Hit a nerve huh?
Not so deep dear! I wish I could preach like him!
That was great! Thank you! thank you!
You didn’t answer the question! Was there a phone conversation? How did you respond?
We could all read your blogs.
I saw RS at a restuarant in Rome, GA and I use to be in his church in Texas. nany nany boo boo. I ask him if he had seen the blogs and what would he do? He gave me a short quick answer but it was enough to rustle your misrepresenting self. By your reaction I see you never intended to tell the readers the full truth while at the same time you called him out.
Sorry to disapoint you!
RS would be upfront with you also, because that is the kind of guy his is, upstanding!
He is a man of integrity and would not reveal anything critical. I assure you.
That had you feeling alittle exposed huh! How does it feel. Does it just make you mad or do you desire to repent? I know just mad, right? OK moving along.
You are spouting off about being descret about your phone call, talk about distractions all the while you keep saying anything you feel. BC come forward I am God’s woman of faith and power all listen to me. You said:WHO TOLD YOU THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE CONFIDENTIAL, DONT TELL EVERYONE OR THEY MAY START TO BELIEVE IT MAY BE TRUE. right! I can see you now – Snifing and whining, why would RS tell anyone on me, I tell on everyone and no one has a right but me. Stop it, you are so two faced!
Hey everyone is SG really Elvis?
No harm meant BC but I don’t think I could be you right now. Sorry for the confusion brother! I know this is the last thing you would desire to hear. Peace dude, OK?
And to the post on love, well, thank you and I am working on it. That was the best word posted in months!
Thank you!
M “J” T
Good morning everyone.
I appreciate that my request to an individual was respected. We have agreed to disagree in a peaceful manner.
Ron Satrape never told anyone he spoke to me on he phone because he did not. We emailed each other regarding a meeting with Cook and he never followed through because we insisted that Cook would have to be present. Ron Satrape has never been our pastor and until he posted his comment on this blog, we had no idea who he was. I’ve checked out his back ground and though he might be a decent fellow with good intentions, he is not capable of truly being an overseeing pastor to BC. BC will never truly submit to RS’s suggestions. I say suggestions, because as far as BC is concerned that is all they are. BC can and will denounce his own oversight’s authority if he finds it does not line up with his agenda to remain “insulated” from the truth. Oh, by the way another definition of insulation is: to become an island. Interesting.
BC on this blog you see the fruit of your loins. You must be so proud to know you raised up a generation of thug-like gang members who truly believe they can stop all this by all this “mad dogging” and “mean mugging” on the blog. Seriously, it is all a very desperate not to mention pathetic.
North County, you have all the information you need to make a decision for yourself. I’m confident that those with integrity and true reverance for the things of God will not allow themselves to be corrupted by this vile influence. Even when it trys to come off all sweet and peaceful you can really see the seductive covertness of Jezebel.
We look forward the raise and longstanding presence of the Virtuous Church is North County. She will truly be a beacon of the Lord’s light in the territory. She will birth legitimacy to the move of God without bringing reproach to her Bridegroom.
North County. God loves you and He is forever wanting and desiring His very best for your lives. You can come boldly before Him through the shed blood of Jesus Christ and receive eternal Grace and deliverance from the bondages of this world. All you have to do is say this simple prayer: Father, I come humbly before you and ask you to forgive me of my sins. I have been away from your grace way too long. I want to be reconciled to you in all things. I make a firm decision in my heart to turn away from sin and ask you to daily lead me along straight paths. I receive forgiveness and deliverance right now in Jesus name. Father, I ask you to fill me to overflowing with the Holy Ghost. I receive that power right now in Jesus name. Thank you for your love and grace. In Jesus’ name.
Please avail yourself to a good local assembly where the pastor is a true shepherd over the flock. He will not only teach you the Bible concerning God’s will, he will be a living example of that teaching in word and deed. There are plenty of good pastors in the territory who are capable. God will lead you.
MT-
Part of your post on May 21, 2008 at 11:36 pm to SG was written as follow:
“I do not believe thet RS would not meet with you. Did he not speak with you on the phone? That is what I heard.”
It doesnt sound like a question, even though is looks like a question. Because you simply answered it at the end of that question/statement…. “that is what i heard?!?” So, it’s either RS told you directly about the phone conversation or you are just gossipping off of second hand information…
Me assuming that you are BC was just a THOUGHT….. Unless it’s true because you are way too defensive over a simple thought…
Hitting a nerve?!? Dont flatter yourself… I dont let people like you with so much bitterness poison me… Besides, it would take a lot more than just your words to get to me… hehehehehe… nice try… you can dust yourself off and try again…
By the way i love your choice of words and names you call people on this blog and in here you speak of your love for Jesus…. My goodness your words says otherwise:
Blood sucking
loud mouth trailer trash
nany nany boo boo
Snifing and whining
you are so two faced
Slurp…slurp
Whatever… get a life
snakes
No need to continue the list because your ugly spirit is doing it all through your words on this blog…
God Bless you my brother… Hey! Hey! no ill feelings towards you… Regardless of who you are, I love you in Jesus Name!
To Everybody but SG,
I can’t believe that somebody would accuse those who are posting here of acting as “thug-like gang members”. What an awesome and loving statement to say of people who worship and love the Lord. More generalizations and accusations that are wrong to make. What about the people who post on the side of the story that are calling for BC’s repentance? We somebody accuse them of being the “spiritual police”?
Also, how would somebody know whether or not BC would allow RS to truely be a voice in his life? That statement sounds as though somebody would believe that BC would never repent in the first place. If that’s the case, then why would somebody call for repentance and attack anybody who stands for peace?
Here’s what is very shocking, What’s Happening was posting with love and grace and in somebody’s own words was reaching out an “olive branch”. But, as soon as somebody felt threatened, I don’t know in what way, perhaps that they were “ministering” to somebody’s husband/wife, somebody lashed out at What’s Happening. Or perhaps somebody felt that they were losing their own influence and control on this blog? I would strive to be as refreshing and considerate as What’s Happening has been. Truthful, and even acknowledging those things that somebody was asking to be acknowledged. And then they get attacked because they crossed some invisible line? Wow, it’s no wonder somebody’s not at AFC anymore. Those comments and the outright disrespect to say that they no longer have a voice in somebody’s presence in “spiritual elitism”. The very same that you have accused others of having.
A sidenote, I read somewhere, can’t remember exactly who said it at the moment and I’m not going to browse up to re-read but AFC has not always been operating in the Antioch pattern. It was something they strayed away from. As an example many teams stopped having post-service meetings. I have my thoughts as to why that happened but I know for a fact of many ministries that stopped, at least for a season.
What’s Happening, I too have enjoyed reading your posts. I know that you wouldn’t even ask or desire anybody to step in and offer support because I can see your heart in this matter. You brought truth and light and I urge you to continue. In my opinion, it only shows the true character of others when you show the true love of Christ.
“Mad dogging” and “mean mugging”? Somebody’s gotta be kidding me? Again, side-stepping the works of somebody who was offering true love. I’m not attacking anybody, I commend a stance such as the one that somebody has taken. But, I think that there’s as soon as somebody feels threatened, then they have to attack. One little statement is “out of line” and all of sudden all is lost. Incredible! Were BC’s sermons criticized has harshly?
Okay, I’m gonna jump out there for a second and I would love to hear some thoughts from you guys. I think Jezebel is alive and well and posting on this blog. I think she’s operating through the one person that this is not addressed to, up until the next paragraph. Thoughts?
SG, save your time trying to type a response to me. You’ve lost your “influence” with me. If you care to know why, read the paragraph above. God Bless you all!
-Yes it was a long shot. But it was a question.
-You responded great though!
– Thank you for the list I like list.
-Everything you prayed I believe is happening with BC right now. Your prayer was awsome!
-Bad doggin and mean mugging. Well thank you I will have to take the credit for that one. I don’t think Dr. Cook would endorse all of my thug like efforts. He is more on the side of doing the gospel in word and deed these days. I assure you!
-But you found me. I didn’t find you. You drew me into a world of anger, selfrightousness, blind ambition and intimidation and control. Meaning it takes one to know one. I read it in your tones and your nature. Your attitude. The way you twist ignore all the while slaying people one by one. Thug, bad doggin, yea just like you. I know the sound and the feel and you are a gangster. I write from that spot because of past life. You live this life. You are deep thug. You use all the word games and intimidation tactics. You are stright up bully thug. Oh yea I see you and hear you. All in the name of Jesus! thug!! No I stand for “rightouness” so it make me the one with turf control. Thug! It just as well would have worked with any name in place of the word rightouness. Can you understand this?
– So I know alittle so I would follow your blogs. Listen to you. Notice your patterns. Follow your skills watch them devolep. Roll through resistence with full thug force. Many time asking for the same thing your not answering yourself. Intimidating everything in your path as you go. Pointing out everyones destruction and you continue to destroy everything in your path. Your path is destruction, like this sister. I bless you in Jesus name. You are a trip. But I know the way people like you think.
I do also won’t peace,
this way is not God’s way
it is your way!
Blessings to all!
Mostly to my new thug friend!
Correction: The end of my first paragraph should read, “Would somebody accuse them of being the ‘spiritual police’?”
right!!!!!!!!!!
But she doesnt expect us to understand because she is strong and we are weak. She has a right and we better shut up and not talk to her. She will have to flex on you and put you in your place. Watch her as she goes through the same defence cycle everytime. Then ending with “assended being can not be touched because I am on a journey and I can’t help myself, mind you, new age crap!
Was crap on the list SG or any other of your other entries.
Would you Help me please, and put that on the list for me. Thank you!
Watch this coming FROM HER…I did not say that I could not help myself. I know fully well what I am doing and why I am doing it. So there take that… she says…
To SG
ITS A THUGS LIFE!
Come on “roll” player!
Oh yes JM… BARNEY FIFE SOUNDING POLICE!
Okay- My sister call me… I havent heard from you in a while…
TESTIMONY–
Anyway, I am also a former member of AFC… I left because of what I know about BC and CR… I didnt like what I saw, so i left…. My heart was full of hate and anger because BC lied to a lot of people that would ask him directly regarding his relationship with CR… It just didnt add up to what I saw and what I hear him say… That was my old self…..
Since I left the church i have been restored and I have learned the battle of Forgiveness… Its not easy but it was something I had to do to let go of all the hurt that I had from AFC… you see my sisters and brothers- we have to forgive the people who’ve hurt us, and it has nothing to do with wether or not that person deserves forgiveness. They dont deserve forgiveness, but then , we dont deserve it either…
We forgive those who’ve hurt us because God forgives us for how we’ve hurt him. To he honest, the reason we often have a hard time forgiving others is because we dont feel forgiven ourselves.
But then Jesus died on the cross he paid the penalty for evey sin that you and I ever committed or will ever commit. And if we’re going to be forgiving people, we first need to accept God’s forgiveness that comes from Jesus Christ.
Also, we should forgive knowing we will need God’s forgiveness sometime in the future. Jesus said, “for if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you… But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins…” (Matthew 6: 14-15)
Carrying a grudge just keeps us stuck in the past, and when we’re stuck in the past, we’re controlled by the past. Our unforgiveness can control us. The Bible says, “Surely resentment destroys the fool, and jealousy kills the simple” (Job 5:2)
The bible also says that only the foolish harbor a grudge (Ecclesiastes 7:9)… Accept forgiveness from God and give forgiveness to others…
To What’s happening at AFC-
Thank you for being the middle person here… I see where everyone stands… Sometimes, God is trying to work and we just tend to take things in our hands… We have to give this situation to God and have him take control of it… If BC is guilty of everything that everyone is accusing him of, then God will deal with him… In God’s timing. If he is not guilty, then we need to ask for forgiveness and in return receive it…
Stay strong What’s happening at AFC. I am so happy to hear about all the great things that are happening at AFC… Hoping the best for the ministry and the leaders as well as the members… To God be the Glory!
Okay! And–
My sister, thank you for letting me know about this blog… we have a lot of catching up to do… call me… I love you sis.
God bless you all! In Jesus Name…
I left AFC over 3 years ago, and I want you to know that reading this today has really made me sad. It is a tragedy reading the rumors I’ve heard over the years here and in the paper.
Tragic for the baby that his identiy is in question, tragic for VL that his marrige didn’t work out. Tragic for RW that his name is in here, that if he either felt castrated or was blinded and did see these things happen or maybe that he like so many others felt he unable to do anything about it.
For, Jessica, Spring, Abe, Sabrina, Lupe and everyone else in this blog, I pray you are doing well and that the Grace of God abounds in your life.
I want to say that I love my AFC friends and family and appreciate the things I learned there. I chalk it up to experience and thank God that I was there the time I was to learn what I needed to know.
For those who were born again before we got there, and didn’t say enough about what we observed while we were there or say it in the right platform. Shame on us.
For those of us who became born again as a result of AFC and have not experienced church outside of AFC, try it out, it will be a huge adjustment, but well worth it in my opinion.
Whatever happens do not allow this tragedy to remove you from the body of Christ. Stay connected with believers. AFC is certainly not the only bible believing, tongue talking church in north county.
For those still at AFC and still connected to the original vision. Preach the Gospel (good news of Jesus Christ) and get people born again in Oceanside. Become connected to a healthy church if the current AFC is unhealthy. I’m not there anymore. I don’t know the current leadership, but I know that when the time was right God opened up an opportunity for me to move on. I’m so glad I did….All I can say is to paraphrase the words of BC “follow the mantle not the man.” Follow the Anointing of God, if it’s lifted, get the heck out of there.
For Gino, the one who tried to tell me to run, years ago and I refused to listen. I sincerely appologize. Feel free to email.
who is CM??
hey did anyone notice that Dr Phil is having a show on a lady who left a religious cult?? I wonder if it was anyone who left AFC??
I see that Mt called me a weasel. lol and talks about the big bad wold blowing SG house down because of what happened at AFC. No one blew my house down, we are all recovered and doing well. But on the other hand it looks like the big bad wolf blew Barry Cooks pants off. He obviosly couldn’t keep them on!!!!
lol @ ginom
To MT:
“I saw RS at a restuarant in Rome, GA and I use to be in his church in Texas. nany nany boo boo. I ask him if he had seen the blogs and what would he do? He gave me a short quick answer but it was enough to rustle your misrepresenting self. By your reaction I see you never intended to tell the readers the full truth while at the same time you called him out. ”
NICE EXCUSE, but I still think you are BC… nany nany boo boo to you…. Just by your demeanor, I can see BC right through you… hmmmmmm… Hey! Hey! it was just a thought….
And then you posted another weird comment:
“But you found me. I didn’t find you. You drew me into a world of anger, selfrightousness, blind ambition and intimidation and control. Meaning it takes one to know one.”
I DONT KNOW ABOUT IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE…. MORE LIKE MONKEY SEE, MONKEY DO…
Quick note: RS never pastored a church in Texas… as a matter of fact, he hasn’t lived in Texas since his age was in the single digits.
THAT is something anyone who knows him… knows.
North County, Hal and I are always available to speak to you directly. You don’t have to listen to the rantings of people who have never met me and are obviously upset because of the stand that we have made. Please don’t hesitate to call anytime. We have nothing to hide because we are unashamed. We don’t need insulating because we can look anyone in the eye with our integrity intact. God has been and continues to be very good to our family. We love the Lord Jesus Christ and those of the household of faith.
Let the Virtuous Church arise and let her enemies be scattered!
Traveling blessing to all this holiday weekend.
Gino, I’m glad you guys made it back safe. Have C call me this weekend. Give V and B our love.
Later
Hi JM, thank you for making the distinction between you and your thug life friends and me. You’re right, I’m not one of you. I just know about you because of what I witnessed at AFC. I’ve never seen such obvious gang-like social structure anywhere else but in prison. MT is trying to be the yard shot caller and now you are his B—-. You guys can’t even come up with your own thoughts and phrases. All you do is try to turn my words around on me because you are incapable of original thought. You all are like parrots imitating what you thought was a strong man and leader. A bunch of cronies…..weak….gullible….and not able to stand alone. You guys really think your circling the wagons against me will somehow “take me out.” Well, guess again. You’re weak, tired and played out. You guys are only impressed with yourselves. You are nothing more than “mules.” Taking contriband from the cell to the yard down to the hole. All the while you’re still not FREE. Your looking at life with no possibility of parole because you continue to play into the schemes and plot of your enemy. He has you in his vice and because of the weakness of your flesh you remain captive. The day of freedom will come when you repent.
Just call me Warden.
Thank you to all of you who have encouraged me, I thank God for peace and unity in the midst of fire. My voice is not silenced, my heart and my conscience are clear, I continue to press on believing that God can reform this territory and restore the church back to His original design regardless of accusations and opinions. Including my own.
To Beauty for Ashes, It’s nice to see your voice here. I love your testimony, and I thank you for the work you do for the Kingdom. You are a warrior for Christ, it was nice meeting you back in Oceanside. And I know you are not who people think you are. 🙂
To Ok and… I sincerely appreciate your heart. If it isn’t uncomfortable for you, if you ever decide to visit AFC in our new location, I would like to have the opportunity to meet you, that’s if, I don’t already know you. It’s a breath of fresh air to see someone moving forward despite the turmoil. I wish you the best.
And a thought…
I am not here to sway opinions or change the hearts of man, that is what God does. I can only provide an aspect of where some of us reside spiritually at AFC. We are not all bewitched, brainwashed or intimidated. I say again that I believe in the praise reports that continue to come in.
I wish I lived in Oceanside, it would be nice to occasionally run into people I have worship and prayed alongside. I have many memories of Women’s Conferences and Summer Fellowships, Care Pastor picnics. Those were the days, but, I do not reside in the past. I look forward to new memories and experiences.
And…
I can’t wait to have Sunday service at our new location! Thank you God for the opportunity to transition into a new place spiritually. I already feel the release of things now past. It’s going to be a great summer…
BEAUTYFROMASHES-
Thank you for confirming that MT is a LIAR…. It was his post that claims a church in Texas… As you can see my post had quotations around those claims that he wrote… See the post earlier from MT….
*********************************************
MT says thanks for the compliment Says:
May 22, 2008 at 1:41 am
Thank you so much for the blame to be Dr. Cook. WOW Hit a nerve huh?
Not so deep dear! I wish I could preach like him!
That was great! Thank you! thank you!
You didn’t answer the question! Was there a phone conversation? How did you respond?
We could all read your blogs.
I saw RS at a restuarant in Rome, GA and I use to be in his church in Texas. nany nany boo boo. I ask him if he had seen the blogs and what would he do? He gave me a short quick answer but it was enough to rustle your misrepresenting self. By your reaction I see you never intended to tell the readers the full truth while at the same time you called him out.
Sorry to disapoint you!
RS would be upfront with you also, because that is the kind of guy his is, upstanding!
He is a man of integrity and would not reveal anything critical. I assure you.
That had you feeling alittle exposed huh! How does it feel. Does it just make you mad or do you desire to repent? I know just mad, right? OK moving along.
You are spouting off about being descret about your phone call, talk about distractions all the while you keep saying anything you feel. BC come forward I am God’s woman of faith and power all listen to me. You said:WHO TOLD YOU THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE CONFIDENTIAL, DONT TELL EVERYONE OR THEY MAY START TO BELIEVE IT MAY BE TRUE. right! I can see you now – Snifing and whining, why would RS tell anyone on me, I tell on everyone and no one has a right but me. Stop it, you are so two faced!
Hey everyone is SG really Elvis?
No harm meant BC but I don’t think I could be you right now. Sorry for the confusion brother! I know this is the last thing you would desire to hear. Peace dude, OK?
And to the post on love, well, thank you and I am working on it. That was the best word posted in months!
Thank you!
M “J” T
SG-
MT has is a LIAR… as you can see his post above he claims that he use to be in a church in Texas that Ron Satrape was a pastor… And here Beauty just claimed that Ron Satrape never pastored in TEXAS…. and he hasnt lived in Texas since his age was in the single digits…
BEAUTY-
Go back and read my posts carefully… I think you took it out of text to try and put me on blast when you only threw MT under the bus…. I have been speaking the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH…. Come to think of it, MT might be BC…. just a lying “blood sucking creature”…
I’m sorry, ya’ll but did you hear something. It sounded strangely familiar but I’m usually closer to the person when it happens. You know, that sound of a manifestation, the sound of a demonic manifestation.
Oh, and this is the same somebody that once invited me into her house for some friendly time together, right? I wonder how that somebody would have treated me in person. Oh and more of us know this somebody better that they think we do. I’m sorry if I hit a nerve on somebody but it is what it is.
Everybody but SG, please translate that demonic sound again. Did that show the love of Christ? I certainly didn’t feel it. So, doesn’t the bible tell us to flee every appearance of evil. Not has holy as somebody is portraying themself to be, is it? Don’t worry about it though, you all, somebody has no influence where I’m concerned because afterall, they’re so righteous they’ll type a censored word, when they might as well just said it anyways, makes it worse when you pretend to be holy and not type it but we know what you said. Right? Yeah, holy people don’t need to have control of their tongue like bible instructs us to.
I’ll check in again tomorrow.
Good Night All!
Yeah right JM, you couldn’t cast out a devil if your life depended on it. Matter of fact it does, but you keep hanging on to yours. Why is that? Is it just easier for you to repeat your cycles than to put in the work that it takes to really be free. I know, I know, your flesh is just way to strong for someone that has endured as much as you have. You’ve earned the right to allow your thought life to wonder here and there. You’re not hurting anyone, right? After all, you’re only human and God understands….doesn’t He? Anyway, His grace is sufficient. You shouldn’t worry about the sin in your life. You know the people around you don’t care….they’ll except you just the way you are….a prisoner just like them. If you try to get too free…..they’ll be happy to encourage you that they love you just the way you are. Isn’t that what Jesus would do?
No influence, yeah right! That is why all these people from AFC have come out to blog…some are blogging for the first time in their lives…..it is so obvious. You are screaming mad and you can’t do a thing about it, but blog. blah. blog. blah!!!
I’ll see you tomorrow too. Bring it!!
Hi Okay…..hope you’re not worried about me….no need. These fools don’t bother me. Just picking off one by one. I’m just giving them what they want. It doen’t change a thing about what the real issues are.
Barry Cook needs to repent and some real leadership needs to step up to the plate and grow these people up. You can really tell some of them have not been out of the hood for long time. They are institutionalized and they will end up right back in the same bondage because they don’t know how to live free. This is spiritual recidivism. In and out. Back and forth. No true spiritual depth. No real revelation. Jesus….bring true revival and REAL leadership quick to set these captives free.
JM is is talking about pretending to be Holy???? LOL ohhhhhhh like Barry Cook pretends to be so Holy getting up preaching to the church on how they should live and then going back to his office and bending CR over his desk. Yeah while he has one of is “body guards” standing outside the door making sure no one goes in. JM you are right that the Bible says to flee from every appearance of evil. Hellooooo wake up! that is why 600 plus left AFC and Barry Cook. Key word is “appearance”. How could you people have no clue??? It’s funny how people like to hide behind computers. Can you just put your name on here. People try to be so bold when no one knows who they are.
SG I will let her know.
Love, Unity and Peace.
The territorial spirits in this territory will NOT defeat the army of Christ.
I know there are many of us out there who come against the attacks of the enemy, let us continue to move forward with our swords drawn and CONTINUE in battle. Let us continue in intercessory prayer, let us continue to labor for the Kingdom. This is not a personal attack, this is an all out war with the enemy. AFC let’s transition forward. We have work to do.
JM and MT read Scott’s recent post called, “They Keep Crawling Down.” It too your right under where it says, “Recent Posts.”
There you go. You found it. Good job.
That is exactly what we are doing. We will not allow the spirit of this territory to continue to hold this community captive. We will not allow psuedo ministry to warp the minds of the people. We will not allow hype and entertainment to replace true spiritual ministry to the lost and hurting sheep of North County. We will not allow an adulterer to have influence over our families, our children, our finances, and our mind, will and emotions.
Sounds like somebody has a serious crush on BC. Another BC groupie….boy there are alot of those chicks.
Go shake your tail somewhere else sister. No one is interested!!!
Ummmm, maybe i’m the only one that has common sense around here… but what attacks are u talking about???? the devil.. oh that guy went on vacation along time ago. You see when Barry started leading a double life and sleeping with one of his pastors wives, the devil didn’t need to do anything. Barry destroyed it all himself. you can pray all you want but untill Barry comes clean God will never bless it.
them BC groupies are NASTY. Take that somewhere else. They seem to be coming out of the wood work.
has anyone found out who CM is???????????
would CM please stand up and state your name!!!!
SG, I thought we had “agreed to disagree in a peaceful manner”? Bad mouthing me is not peaceful. But since it appears you engage in this behavior, keep this den of wolves and continue, you have inspired me and given me ideas on how to keep moving forward. So, to that, thank you.
In case anyone forgot. My phone number is 760.622.9976. If you got any real game, you’ll pick up the phone and dial the number. If not, just keep blogging because that is all you are anyway….all talk! Exactly the kind of thing I would expect from a bunch of no name cowards.
Your welcome. Now stop yapping and go actually do something. If you got anything of substance, we’ll see it. Put your money where your mouth is and get to work…..please……is that “peaceful” enough for you? I don’t want that kind of peace. It is false and is a weak justification for allowing and supporting a wolfster in the pulpit. I guess you like them bad boys.
No Gino, I’m not sure who these people are. Just a bunch of little darlings I suspect.
Oh, and to everyone else who is interested in visiting AFC or in need of anything, please contact me at sanitywriting@yahoo.com, if you would like any information about AFC and how we are moving forward and the changes that are being implemented, I would be more than obliged to engage in a peaceful manner.
I am moving on now, there is Kingdom work to be done, and I am ready to move forward with other things. I believe that people who sincerely want restoration, will speak it. Those that say one thing and do another, well, I pray for them. May everyone here take on the Helmet of Salvation and take every thought, expression and word into captivity that does not align itself with the Word and truth of God.
May Christ be your filter to think and speak.
Blessings…
One more thing SG, the peace talk were your words, go back and read your post…
“Good morning everyone.
I appreciate that my request to an individual was respected. We have agreed to disagree in a peaceful manner.”
You have not given dual respect. You asked for it, I gave it to you, and now you have gone against your word.
You’re right, this isn’t the kind of peace I would want either.
You can go back to trashing everyone now.
What happened to MT?? I think he is trying to think up an answer to why he lied about Ron Satrape is a pastor at some church in Texas… And then Beauty just crushed him and said that Ron Satrape never pastored in Texas… waiting for answer MT… but then again, it’s all lies…
Just wondering….
My question to BC (aka MT), how is it that many on here are saying you have repented and in the process of restoration, and yet people keep spotting you and CR in different places…. How do you repent and confess a sin before God and go right back to doing it over and over again??
lol@gino … Sorry- I dont know who CM is…. 🙂
Okay! And…
I think you took my note as being directed at you – it was not… sorry for any confusion! I did see where it was introduced into the blog by someone else.
I have been insanely busy this week and had just read the comment referencing RS and Texas and wanted to clear that up – Lord knows the last thing we need right now is inaccurate info 😉
When you said “… put me on blast” – I took that to mean that you thought I was getting on your case for quoting another post – Again, I’m sorry if you thought I was, I was only trying to clarify.
What’s Happening:
Thanks! 🙂 It was great to finally meet you all and see God actively taking what the enemy meant to use for destruction being used to bring healing and restoration.
I’ve been pretty sure I know who you are, but didn’t want to assume, so I have to ask (and if I’ve assumed correctly, you’ll remember this from lunch)… what concept was I trying to explain to my child using the car, the brick wall and the parking lot? LOL
If I’m wrong, I’ll have to figure out another way 😉
BTW, we have something of yours, that I promise to send back soon.
Hi Okay, how are you this evening? blessed, I pray!
i find it funny it was just a comment and now you’re almost convinced that MT is BC. but these days, you never know. i liked the comment somebody made earlier, maybe somebody is posting on both sides of the story. be funnier if they were having an arguement with themselves but we never knew it. some people might just do it for kicks. but, i just thought i’d say.
To beauty… I wasn’t there for lunch, but I know who you are talking about…awesome people aren’t they? Let me give you a hint… I was on projection and you were looking for notes…My husband is JB…. You can write me at sanitywriting@yahoo.com…I’d really like to keep in touch.
Hello BeautyFromAshes,
I know I haven’t posted here yet but my wife has. I’ve been reading from time to time, usually after the family has settled down for the night. Anyways, I just wanted to let you know we haven’t been formally introduced yet but I was with JB and we bumped into you in the hall on the way into a meeting. Great meeting by the way, lots of open hearts and true sharings from the heart. You may have also recognized me from being near What’s happening while they were on projection.
Anyways, even though we haven’t met, I just wanted to share with you that I appreciate your insight and feedback here. And, I look forward to introducing myself to you officially, very soon.
That’s all I wanted to say, don’t really have much to say other than that, and that I have to agree with What’s Happening on many things. I would love to see many of those past members come through AFC every now and then, if not to stay, to come and visit. This Sunday would be a great opportunity at our new location.
What’s Happening, I know who you are as well. I look forward to our Sunday Service, it’s going to be a great time in the Lord and put away the things of the past and move into the things that God has for us.
Blessings and Victory in Jesus Name to both of you!
Much Love,
Abe
Beauty-
I apologize for assuming that you were attacking me…. But I still stand that MT was on here bashing on all of us calling us names from left to right, and now caught in lying about Ron Satrape being a pastor at a church in Texas. If you go back and read every single post that was written by MT, his demeanor reminds me of BC’s…. Its just too weird…. Just thoughts… 🙂
Abe you suck, you took my secret identity! It’s all good brother, I got some new ideas for all this that SG gave me, let’s talk about it sometime…I think Sabrina would like it too…
I wish we had more packing parties, your wife had me almost peeing my pants I was laughing so hard.
Friday is moving day!!!!!! I feel the weight being lifted off our shoulders…Thanks for being a true leader and man of God in the House.
Summer RUSH!!! I’m feeling it already…dang it, I said I wouldn’t post but now I am all excited about the transition!!! 🙂
I tried to make it to our last service tonight, but school had an Open House…so I was called off for mommy duty…you know how that goes. See you all Sunday!
What’s happening. .. Doh! Sorry about that – and you’re right, they are awesome people!
My goodness… the notes… that was something else – especially since he didn’t know about the cake – he was starting to wonder if he would have them in time.
I had the opportunity to work with your husband while I was there and he mentioned that I might run into you out here. I’ll shoot you an e-mail tonight so that you have mine, and tell JB that I would LOVE to see a clip from the end of that service – you know, the one that requires a can opener?!
Abe,
Thank you, I remember you, it sure was busy up there that morning!
You’re right, that meeting was awesome (Saturday, right?). It’s one of the few times I can say that it was possible to literally see transformation taking place – it was so cool.
Tell Sabrina we were cheering her on!
I look forward to officially meeting both of you really soon!
What’s Happening,
It is all good, I’ve having a good time connecting with folks and getting ready for this transition. You missed an awesome service! I can’t begin to tell you how God moved. I describe it as a taste of what’s to come! I’m really looking forward to continuing in the direction that God is taking us.
Sure, let’s get together some time and talk about those ideas. 😉 Looking forward to it.
Blessings!
Okay… And,
No worries!
Although I do not think MT is BC, I agree that his method of communication may be obstruction his message (uh oh, I just sounded like RS – I’m not, nor am I Mrs. RS). 😉
I’m fairly certain that BC has not posted on this blog – I could be wrong, but based on my conversations with him and with RS, I would be very surprised if he had. Both of them have been pretty busy these days – partly the reason why I just saw the TX comment today.
obstructing… not obstruction – this time zone thing is a killer!
Beauty,
Yes, that’s the meeting I was talking about and you’re right, you could really sense things falling into place so to speak. Hearts were being open and honest and just the realization we have a small but also a big role to play in what God is doing. I was touched, and never expected it to go as it did but I’m so thankful to God for it because it helped me to see some of the heart and to know those who I labor among. People were being touched, it was a beautiful thing to be a part of and to witness.
Didn’t mean to get long-winded but just wanted to let you know that was the meeting I was mentioning.
Blessings to you!
Are you two kidding me? Out of all the leadership meetings I’ve been to, that one had the most impact. I love those meetings now, it freed me up even more to speak out on things I needed answers to.
Beauty I was laughing at myself because I got all the notes up and then, only half of them were touched on, I was like darn it! But that was a PHAT WORD and I received so much from it. After talking to our team afterwards, everyone was popping with revelation. You should see the growth in these amazing people.
I will let him know! I look forward to talking with you more often!
Abe: You gotta be kidding me, I am so bummed I missed it. Ah well, I can get the CD right? Sunday brother, I got a plan 🙂 … isn’t that called strategic warfare?
bed time now, good night y’all, I might just stay on here to connect with my AFC family…Praise God!
Abe,
Considering how much was accomplished in that meeting, I’d say you don’t need to worry about being long-winded. I’ll bet that if you took each person’s experiences from that day, you could fill a book!
It still blows my mind when I think about the fact that 12 years ago (last week) I moved out there and none of us had even heard of Oceanside… here we are today, full circle.
God has great plans for AFC and all of heaven is cheering you on!
What’s Happening,
No, I’m not kidding. Presence of God, clear and concise revelations, people being touched, I saw one woman pray for another, when she stopped, she took like three steps, and couldn’t contain it, she started to cry and just fell down and started worshipping God. She was supposed to be praying for people and she got touched just as much as the rest. Powerful stuff! You’ll see!
That meeting will be a lasting mark for me, as well. Awesome stuff! I love my brothers and sisters in Christ and I get more and more excited every day!
LOL… I think that’s the first time in a long time he hasn’t even made it half way through his sermon notes, and he went into over time! Believe me, I was thinking the same thing about all of the typing! I even had half of the powerpoint stuff done, but I didn’t have time to finish it or a memory stick to pass it on – I’ll send it to you.
Beauty,
Was it twelve years ago? Funny how those things work. Let’s see, we’re in our twelfth(sp?) year. I can’t believe I can’t remember how to spell that. Anyways, it really has been good to hear your insight and stance on things. I have to say, they’re very honest and that’s what I respect most. Keep it up, like What’s Happening said, we can stay connected and share what’s happening on a regular basis, although I’m sure you are kept informed, as well. But, it’s about co-laboring together for the Kingdom, right?
Oh, and I agree, I’m sure we could write a book off that one meeting alone. Blessings!
Beauty for Ashes…dosen’t RS oversee a church in Texas? How long has he been doing that? Does he not also work with a couple churches in GA?
Ok moving right along!
MT- I think you may have gone alittle to far in some of your post! You should say your name brother who cares. Your talking real strong! Come on I will help…Mike T—–.
Whats happening at AFC- great spirit keep moving forward! Remember SG can’t help it she is being driven by a self-rightous spirit!
SG- Wardon? you like that power trip stuff don’t you? I could tell you MTs name and its not
BC but he should say his own name. Someone says one thing you think might be a lie and you are off on a tangent berailing people. You really do need some serious help. Being that it has happened to you over and over but you just skip over it and keep going.
SG – where do you go to church? MT did bring up some great points. The fact that one thing MIGHT be wrong does not negate all other items brought up on everyone of his post. I see why you needed him to have a possible hole in his stuff so you could justify yourself and still not answer any of it. Your post and responses don’t sound very mature either.
SG – MT was saying when he saw the way you wrote and responded on your post that thug spirit drew him in. You didn’t know that is what he meant?
SG-You drove off another inocent person today. You need to use disearnment in driving the kind and humble off…it does seem alittle overboard and abusive also. No respect for those kind of strong arming tactics SG! This is the very thing you accuse BC and others of, your credibility is at a all time low. We can see through it.
ANYWAY….
ginom- throw her over a desk while usher guard his office. Wow man your imagination is trippy too. You guys are fabricating assumptions.
Hey would avoiding the apperance of evil be like if you were going into bars and partying on regular basis. Or computer porn or… And…well we will stop there for now. Just courious IF that was you IF that kind of behavior would apply to you IF you do that on a regular basis! Or as you have posted just to him but not you? Just wondered in your situation how that may apply, just a example for YOU of course!
I told you before. I will tell you again. BC is not in a place right now that he would post on here or post like MT has done. I don’t really care if you believe me or not. But for the record he is pretty brokeup right now and needs to keep healing so he can function properly. I really don’t think he reads this or could handle it right now. That is one reason why I don’t think you will hear from him right now in any form. A divorce alone is the second most devastating thing that can happen to a person. Needless to say everything else that has transpired.
Again if you care so much about the NC territory then organize a outreach, gather evangelism teams, give care to those who can’t get to church. For every destructive thing you do, which is allot, please counter it with positive works and labours of love.
LOL about the memory stick situation. That just happened to me two days ago! I’ll have to say, you both kept your cool very well. I was watching and you both looked like two teenagers trying to cram a month long project into a 45-minute lunch. Anyways, gotta get up early tomorrow. Again, awesome to connect with both of you here and we’ll be worshipping together very soon. Oh, by the way, What’s Happening, tell JB that he better take care of the Inovonics correctly or I’m gonna have a couple words for him. LOL, he’ll know what I’m talking about.
Mark,
Coming down a little strong on someone you don’t know – you think? Maybe?
I did nothing more than clear up some incorrect information – RS works with churchs in several countries, and the list grows regularly, and the amount of involvement he has with any church depends upon the need and his availability.
Either way, in none of the churches he works with in Texas would he be mistaken for being the pastor.
I appreciate what you trying to do, but be careful not to cause any “friendly fire” wounds. It would take a lot more than that to take me out, but there are still some among us who are recovering.
Abe,
Too funny with the teenagers reference – that message took on a life of it’s own and every time we thought we had a final set of notes… well, we didn’t 🙂
Anyway, you got me thinking about the number twelve… GOOD stuff! I’ll be forwarding what I found onto RS… but here’s something to get you started:
Number Twelve
Perfection of Government
The twelve apostles
The twelve foundations of the Holy City
Twelve persons anointed of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament
Given that the number 12 is Biblically linked with the perfection of the government of the church as are the Apostles & Prophets… it could explain some of the things we have seen with the outright attack on the Government of the church…
OK… I’ll stop there 🙂
mark, no imagaination here just facts. u can talk to multible people that walked in on Barry. Matter of fact we can line up women that had affairs with him or he tried to come on to. No internet porn here, you need to talk to Ron W about that.
Umm no i would not act like that and defile the office of a pastor. How can anyone compare or assume I would do that. Just because I state the truth. I guess you can’t handel the truth.
JUST RUN AND TELL BARRY TO COME CLEAN STOP HIDING AND BE MAN. STAND UP TELL THE TRUTH.
Beauty for Ashes…I wasn’t bashing you nor trying to correct you. Just sayin SG made her whole reason for MT having no credit. I was simply saying many people refere to someone to the man who oversees as in charge. Because in many ways depending on the church it would not uncommon to say…a Rhema church or Hagins church whatever…so he referes to RS…maybe he should have said I was in a church that RS oversees. Then she maybe would have spoke back to the issues instead of avoiding ALL of them and making it a discredit MT game. In which it seemed you may have joined also. I dunno!
Do you see that she answered none of the questions yet continues to demand all takers to bring it on as though she is being open herself. It’s not happening!
I think this whole discussion and the twisting of him and his statements based on a wrong use of words does not do away with what MT had to say. I have never said SG couldnt say what she felt, even if I disagred. But MT has that right also. As do all of us!!
She would have discredited herself if she judged herself by her own standards!
Okay, What happening is the media director’s wife….that explains all the propaganda about CL clearing this innocent man………
Barry Cook is still in charge of AFC. We, the majority, want and expect Barry Cook to publically address these allegations and stop hiding behind the skirts of silly, infatuated women. JB, you better watch you wife. Sounds like shes got is bad for BC.
Hey Abe, want don’t you tell the blog about your testimony in your marriage. Maybe you stop with all the pretending and masqerading. Tell us how you overcame the situation in your marriage. You did repent right? How did healing come after that? How did you get delivered? What was the cause of the ——. I won’t state it publically, but why don’t you come clean and put the cards on the table for real.
How many other couples at AFC were involved in extra marital activities. How many spouses retaliated on each other or came real close because one had a not so imaginary friend? I actually heard that someone did everything with another man except for intercourse, but doesn’t qualify that as an affair.
Tell me the company line on sexual misconduct AFC leaders. It seems to be the rule with you guys and not the exception. More proof of clan-like, monkey see, monkey do behavior. “Well if he can do it, so can I.” Right?????
Barry Cook, repent and stop all this “role playing” yourself. Admit what you’ve done and take responsibility for all the dysfunctional relationships at AFC. You’re the head right???? How about using for something worthwhile for a change.
AFC continues to deceive itself by believing that their current situation is the fault of external pressures only.
I remember when JS use to come back from the psyche unit and then tell everyone what devils to look out for. You guys still do this stuff now. And then you wonder why you get no where. Let me give you a clue. Take a day or two and round up the devils running FREE in your leadership team, get them cast out and then maybe you’ll experience something for real.
Coming on the blog to get strategies for spiritual warfare. What complete silliness…..look inside yourselves and ask God to give you strategies to overcome the corruption in your spirits that you invited in through your compromise.
Your current state has nothing to do with external pressures. It is all internal struggles with light and darkness which have no fellowship together. So again, REPENT, AFC. Your deliverance is promised.
Oh goodeeee, here we go with the “OLD” numbers revelation. Like that stuff hasn’t been preached 1001 different ways at AFC. Look where a bunch of head knowledge has gotten this place so far.
Hey Gino. I know you’re not lying about people walking in. Let me relay a G rated version of an eyewitness account of BC and CL in the pastoral care office.
A charter member and founder of AFC was across the hall in the copier/work room when they saw CL sitting on the couch with her legs up and knees spread wide apart. BC was sitting across from her in a chair with his hands on her knees. The eyewitness was so horrified she called JS immediately on the phone and told him to come to the front and tell CL that she needed to close her legs.
Oh I guess that was nothing more than some innocent one on one pastoral care going on there ….. right????
We now know what kind of LOVE you guys are preaching about…….FREEE LOVE!
BTW, ABE, you don’t have to recount your story. It doesn’t even matter. You all were just following your example. Sorry, for even bringing it up. Truly.
Hey you guys! There are 8 of us girls who follow this and other sites from down here. We love Dr. Cook and wish he would pick one of us to be the new Mrs. Cook. We would stick by you. Yea and we would love to have your baby.
If you wont we will give you our contact information. Come visit please! Dinner on us! We love the Lord and we think you are hot! And smart, and sooooo sexy. A real “man” of God! I saw a picture of the lady in question. She is hot too!
We tried to contact the church but no one would return our calls. If you know where he is could someone have him contact us at futurewife2007@yahoo.com !
Thank you and God Bless you!
Mark-
If MT is man enough to write foolish things on this blog, he should be Man enough to stick up for himself…. And thanks for trying to throw a fake name out there for MT…. good one! And dont be mad at Beauty because she was only telling the Truth… I know, I know- It HURTS… The truth does hurt, but it sets you Free….
Avatar Expert-
The more and more I think about it, I am ALMOST convinced that MT is BC….. And?!?
BC, Im wondering why your flock claims that you are in the process of restoration and that you have repented from your sins… However, so many people keep spotting you with CR in places… How is it that you repent from a sin and go right back to doing it?? Not doing it, doing it… I meant – repeating that same sin… sorry! just wanted to clarify that…
Hello everyone!
Did you miss me? It sounded like it. Thank you for all the kind words SG. Once again proving my point. You think I am BC because I challenge you on another level than others. You are mistaken my dear sweet slurp slurp. Someone stoops to your level of gutter living and bam I am BC. So once again you dont have to deal with stuff.
My focus was not the language used for TX but ALL the other things said on post.
Now lost because of a misdirection by queenie!
I guess this is my answer to all her discredits….what ever…now answer thug!
MT- I will give my name when I am ready. I am sorry you don’t see the value of not letting a bully push everyone around. I only cranked it up when she gets so full of her self. SG is so self rightous!
ginom
yea right!
So you are saying you know someone who walked in on him with her bent over the desk doing her? Man come on!
Okay and…akaSG- You still don’t know that restoration process isn’t taking place. I am sure RS would testify that he is in fact on the right track of recovery. Your point you tried to make was so lame. That doesn’t make your point.
For the record I do think Cook would be pissed at me for much of the stuff I said. But like SG he might not understand. But remember SGs number one rule. The end does justify the means. This is clear by all post. Many of you are just not able to handle clarity. When you get more mature like me you will get it. ( OK OK just had a SG moment )hahahah
Hey Beauty For Ashes. You got any insider info for us? How is BC? Is he doing ok? Is he healing up from all this stuff? Do you think he will start a church in CA or what?
Hey I got a story. I remember when TS used to get mad at JS for going over to CRs house and hanging out when VL wasn’t there. VL and CL had to tell him to stop. Now which is worse? Right now you are trying hard to destroy STILL build people up… would you while there is still day!
THIS LINE OF POST IS DEMONIC AND NARROWMINDED. IT IS UNCHRISTLIKE.
SG you restrengthened yourself and now are releasing twice the filth. You guys we should all boycott SG.
Abe she put you in your place. Doesn’t that feel good. She is mad because you acted happy. She is not a happy person.
I understand why she gets mad at me. I don’t take her two faced crap.
Whatever happened really I don’t know but this route is demonic.
But SG another innocent person gets squashed by “the wardon” aka queenie aka thug aka gangster dike
This is so crazy you have made this your entire life. SG where do you go to church maybe someone of us may have gone there and we can bash good people there and be like you!
Were you ever married before? What happened to you? Are you overcompensating to make up for a hurt? Or are you 4′ tall and so you have a little man symdrome or something?
I do know his name and his idenity. Not fake first name and I didn’t say his last name. I could tell you his nick name also. or his wives name and two childrens name.
Honestly I am not concerned with him being spotted now with her. That dosent’t mean he is in sin with her now. To me then was then and now is now. That is a odd train of thought. But then again I am not trying to control anything llike SG. Being spotted with someone and screwing someone is two different things. hello!!
Anyway she bolted somewhere. I heard Missouri!
Whatever I am not trying to hold sin over people’s head. Abe or his wife or you or BC or CR or anyone else. I wish all have a great life and love the one they wish and work out there own salvation with fear and trembling.
Abe doesn’t owe you a cent for his mistakes either.Remember Jesus… SG! BCs situation is far more complex than others. But not void of scriptural guidellines.
This may take some time but…
I think BC needs to determne his calling. Learn from whatever mistake he has made. Make whatever restiution he needs to and love whoever he wont’s to and find a place he can keep growing and…….. Long shot here but… Maybe they will hook up somewhere down line and tumble a nation for Christ. To me that would be the ultimate slap in the devils face. Not some prud overprotective religious control like you display.
By the way BC is not in charge! He may answer a questions from them at times. The reason I say this is he was quoted at a meeting several months ago as saying…He was stepping down and did not desire to continue nor felt he was able. This colates with others who have spoken to him and saw very clear this was his position.
Wait I just got a better idea!!
Maybe we should hook him up with the San Diego girls huh? That is funny!
MT-
took you long enough to come up with an answer…lol…. that was weak…. I will ignore your UGLY spirit… yes pure U. G. L. Y…… Besides you are a LIAR, for trying to make up an excuse when you blasted SG and RS’s phone conversation on here… I asked you why RS would share that information with you and you replied that you ran into him at restuarant in Rome, GA…. Then carried on by saying that RS is or was a pastor at some church in Texas that you attended… And thankfully Beauty confirmed that RS was never a pastor at a church in Texas….
My point is lame?!? dont be mad cause you’re a LIAR…. Just like BC, get caught in a like and now thinking up every excuse in the book to cover it…
correction to the last line of my post: JUST LIKE BC, get caught in a LIE and now thinking up every excuse in the BOOK to COVER it.
This is heart breaking!
Life and death are held in the power of the tounge. Use it with wisdom please.
Keep family business in the family. You were right in street play comments here, it is going on by all posting.
Please return to your local assemblies. Return to your on homes and families. Some of you who claim to have famlies aren’t spending much time with them, for hours you post night without end. Please stop this, try intercession. Trust in the lord with all your hearts and lean not onto your own understanding.
When the prodical son came home. Lk 15 the father didn’t press to know the details. He didn’t make the man feel like scum. Please reread the story. Apply these principles and Christ will be glorified and a man of God will be restored God’s way and not mans way.
Now these girls come on here. My God help us. This thing is “christians gone wild” now!
Scott Kay I appell to you in Jesus name! Please hold them to LK 15 and other ill. by Jesus!
May Christ and His teachings be kept. This blog is not like Jesus!!!
Mark-
Just wondering- if he stepped down and announced in a meeting, why did he announce it like he did with VL and TC… The one with TC was classic…
correction to previous post-
Why didnt he annoucne it like he did with VL and TC?…. the one with TC was classic…
You just did what you accused him of
and you did what he accused you of.
You have once again spun the web. You are getting so boring!
If i ever doubted if that was true SG once again you have confirmed it. Over and over again!
By that you lied also and keep expanding and confirming it.
Yawn Yawn… big yawn..
I am out of here!
Could you tell? I am “M”.
Didn’t wait baby…I had to work.
That Nolan guy has got something. This does feel like it is really weird.
Maybe he isn’t feeling quiet a spunky these days. TC was it’s own situation.
VL said he was coming back. He told me he was coming back and told me he never wanted to loose his singehood. So he has what he wanted. Maybe not the way he wanted.huh?
BC has no racial issues Mexican or Black or whatever or he would not draw such diverse groups. Doesn’t matter what you say on this one. Dill pickle ( as opposed to sugar pie )
Hi Everyone,
I came here last night and had a good conversation with a couple of people and for some reason thought I could avoid being dragged into a conversation. However, since the integrity of my family has been brought into question, I will address what needs to be addressed and move on. To be quite honest, it’s none of your business but in the interest of showing how awesome God is and that we have moved on beyond where you think we are, I will answer your questions.
It’s funny how some people still try to hold us to our youth days, even though we’ve grown so much further than anybody cares to admit. In fact, speaking of JS. Why don’t you call his wife and ask her? Or LD? Or LT? Or JJ? Or JT? You can ask them and their wives. You can call ID and ask him and his wife, you can call FC and his wife. There are others. If you care to have witness to the grace that God has had on our lives, how much he’s restored us, and moved us forward despite all odds, attacks, backlash, and yes, people trying to hold us in this broken image of our former selves.
I do not know about relationship retaliations because I was not witness to them. I do know of some… “extra marital relationships” but I assure you that’s all I will say because I will not lie. I’m not saying any names or pointing any fingers. My reason for this is just one, I would not dare impede or be a stumbling block to those who have been delivered and are moving on with their lives.
As for our testimony of the questions you’ve asked, first of all, let me dispell the “affair” accusation. Let me point out that it was before we were married, during the time that we were still dating. At the time of her relationship with this other gentleman, we were not together. In fact, we had been broken up for a while and you see, we were broken up by her mom and the church leadership. So, if you accuse them of just letting us, or helping us to walk in what we did, know that they very strongly encouraged against our relationship. They urged us that if we were to date, be sure that we had people with us at all times to be acccountable for our actions. This and many other things they asked us to do to look out for our well being. I say again, church leadership consistently admonished us about our relationship and stepped in a number of times that they felt we were taking things too far.
I’m sure you heard about her situation from some of the “leaders” of the day as I know that many of the faults in our lives were shared amongst leaders and others as gossip and slander. I know how many spoke against our relationship, spoke against us even after we were restored. People we loved and respected. I know about the comments made about us being in bondage and the our curses falling on our children and so on. A statement that you tried to make towards my wife. In fact, I ask you, please call TS and ask her to recount a conversation I had with her nearly two years ago. Please do so. You’ll find that we’re not as stuck as you assume us to be.
You know, Susanne, it’s a shame that you came after me and my wife the way you did. I really don’t understand why. We never had any bad feelings towards you. Even after we heard about the stuff you yourself had said about our relationship. About our daughter after she was born. Things you said before you even had the chance to hold her for the first time in the back of the sanctuary. Yes, I remember that, as well. Now, again, I’m not saying with 100% certainty that you said these things because I did not hear them but they were things relayed to us through people you now have on your side of the story.
Let me continue. Did we repent? Yes, of course we repented. We sincerely sought the Lord and asked Him to forgive us, to heal us, and allow us to move forward despite what we allowed into our lives. We asked for forgiveness everyday, even well into our marriage. We still ask for forgiveness and continually pray that God will cover our family and keep us, and not allow our sins to be cast on our children. We plead and pray that His blood continually washes us of sins of past and even the sins we may commit today and we always ask him to make us stronger, better people to glorify His love in the earth.
How did our deliverance come? That process is too lengthy to put on this blog. I will try to put it in a nutshell. It came through continual repentance. Continual prayer. Continual fasting. We placed covenant relationships around us to keep us accountable and to hold us to our word and to help us to continue to seek God on a regular basis. Covenant relationships that I need to call today and ask them to forgive me for not staying in contact more consistently. Yes, a relationship goes both ways but I’ve always found that being quick to apologize or repent keeps me humble. I will share that LD was and is a true covenant brother! He helped speak life into my life and our family’s life even when nobody else would. You see, that’s how we were delivered. We placed ourselves around people who would not judge us but would speak life to us. Not fluffed up words but truth. And, yes, if we were wrong, they let us know. I will gladly have a couple of them give you a call if you think I’m putting up some kind of front. They don’t agree with us being at AFC but they respect us enough and know us enough to trust that we’re following God with all of our heart. I’m sure you’ve figured out who some of those initials stood for but if not, I would gladly clear them up for you and if you have their information, I’m not worried about you calling them and asking them for yourself. However, I will get their permission before I give you any information because I’m not sure that all of them would want to speak with you. You may have already spoken with a couple of them, though.
That is some of our testimony and I assure you there’s so much more. God is awesome and we give Him all the glory, least any man should boast. He, and He alone is our Rock, Salvation, Fortress, and Strength. He alone is our Provider and He is so wonderful to us. We do not lift up man and say that they’ve done this, we give credit only to God and God alone. Susanne, I ask you not to judge us. Please?
Mark I think that is a misquote. I have been in recent meetings where this was not said, it was communicated the exact opposite. But really in the end it doesn’t matter. What he started at AFC won’t die. We follow God, not man.
There is no “propaganda” and the leaders of the church have come to bring it back. We choose to do it without name calling and disrespectfulness. And I would add that to engage in spiritual warfare, we should know the strategies of our enemy.
Also SG, you have no authority over anyone while keeping everyone in bondage by reminding them of their past. There is this spirit of people needing your approval before moving forward, you’ve said it in your blogs. True leaders look beyond people’s failures and love them for who they are now. Not who they were.
Your posts could convey you as being a hypocrite and I went through your posts where one minute you speak about loving everyone, “come to my house for restoration” but the moment your views are challenged, you respond with disrespectfulness, again I re-read your posts before coming to this determination.
Also, defending your possessions because someone called your pick up truck beat up? Flaunting the fact that you gave a $10K check. Is this about man or God?
Leaders of the church, I implore you to leave this blog and let the wolves fight amongst each other, they offer no praise reports about what God is doing now, they offer no love, people are just getting attacked. Profanity is being used to prove a point in the name of God, this is WRONG. People are being belittled, reminded of their past and cursed at, all in the name of Jesus…again, this is WRONG.
AFC, those who have left, and those still hurting, I encourage you to move forward and use your time to produce something that bears fruit. We have so many organizations in North County that could use your time instead of this gossip spreading column that started over a completely different church. It just proves that the enemy doesn’t want the church to succeed. All of the hours of writing could better be served in volunteering with youth, or writing praise reports for a newspaper column…writing a book of what God has done for you.
If you have any doubt about the enemy, just go back re-read through some of these posts and see the direct contradictions for yourself. Be leary of following anyone that does not filter their words through the truth and promises of God. Use caution when allowing a spirit enter that does not produce fruit even in blogs.
As I depart and leave the wolves to bite, sanitywriting@yahoo.com or http://www.myspace.com/luv_radiohead…for anyone who needs prayer, someone to talk to, acknowledgment of hurts and pain, if you need to learn how to move forward, I come humbly as your servant to help. I am not about convincing anyone to come to AFC, I am however, fully sold out to Christ and all I know is what He has done for me. I think everyone should go to a church they believe in.
Lastly, I stand firm that I believe in AFC, I believe in the restoration of the church, I believe that God will prevail and the enemy will be thrown down, I believe in the praise reports of AFC, I believe in the children at Super Sabado being ministered to every week, I believe in the deliverance at the altar and salvations that continue to restore the people back to God, I believe in BC and his mantle, I believe in Christ…
I thank God that His work continues in His church and that He has given us the opportunity to transition into a higher place. All the glory to God, always.
Looks like I messed up my link…
sanitywriting@yahoo.com
http://www.myspace.com/luv_radiohead
Blessings.
Abe & What’s Happening:
It was great chatting with you two last night! I was so excited to hear from you both of the continued momentum and restoration! Can’t wait to see you all again soon and celebrate the victories and see the new building.
Abe, I enjoyed your testimony of restoration – God is awesome and His love for us is undending. I know you heard some of my testimony (at the end of RS last sermon) and I wanted to encourage you that what is under the Blood is exactly that – under the Blood. When we repent, our sins are wiped away and He does not keep a record. It’s clear that you have accepted guidance from your leaders and put it into action, you also have those to whom you are accountable and that is a healthy and Godly choice. Those are the folks in our lives who help us continue moving forward.
You are NOT obligated to prove your repentance to anyone who would try to condemn you for your past. There is therefore now NO condemnation!
Several times on this blog I have seen you or your wife attacked/condemned for things that God has proclaimed “Case Closed!”. This means no man (or woman) has any right to reopen it!
On a lighter note… Is anyone really surprised that glorifying God and sharing His victories, His restoration, and His people on fire for Him stirred up some folks who don’t want (or maybe aren’t able) to see that He can and will work through any situation when we call on Him and submit to Him?
Let’s keep marching forward, keep chasing after His plan, keep showing His heart! The past is behind!
AFC, you do not labor alone, many others are working with you and even more are lifting you up in prayer!
It’s too long to post here, so I’ve only posted the first verse… I was reading Psalm 136 and it struck me that all 26 verses end with the same statement “His love endures forever”…
Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good. His love endures forever. Psalm 136:1
Good evening all.
Abe, thank you for your post. You did confirm a lot of things we already knew about AFC. I don’t need to talk to all those names you listed. I know about all the affairs married people at AFC had and are are recovering from. That was not the point. It is the thing everyone wants to focus on because they can play the victim to SG’s so called attacks. Those are self serving characterizations and they don’t make a bit of difference to me one way or the other. End of post to Abe.
My point is simply this. Barry Cook’s adulterous influence on the marriages of AFC reproduced an epidemic of adultery and divorce. Some people are trying to recover, while others failed considerably. They made a choice to turn their hurt and disappointment against their own families instead of having the courage to face the man responsible for the wound. Why, because of the fear of man. They held it all in and decided, ” what the heck, if he can do it why can’t I?” These affairs did not happen years and years ago. Some of them are not even months old or even a year old. They are the fruit of corrupt leadership. The same corrupt leadership that you are supporting now. You are enslaved to a certain culture of spirituality that has nothing to do with the Church model of the NT. It is the worldly model fashioned after greed, lust, power, control, at whatever cost. It is demonic and sensual and full of the Anti Christ.
Whats happening. Thank you for labeling me your enemy. You’re right I am. I have no fellowship with darkness. I’m glad that the whole community knows that we do not come from the same place. Most of you have never been truly pastored or fathered. Your level of immaturity both naturally and spiritually is obvious. The lack of character and the lack of understanding that character is a must in the household of faith especially in leadership is an indictment against your leaders. You are supposed adults who should be on meat, but you are still lapping up milk. Why? Because of the low level of morality that you’ve learned to accept. You haven’t been taught the basics of right and wrong.
Look at the leaders you have now that are suppose to be different. They excuse your rants, attacks, and name calling as “spiritual warfare,” but when someone stands up to you brood of vipers….they are labeled the enemy. Huh! Your leaders are weak minded and feeble.
Barry Cook, we call for your public confession and apology to this community. Or should we give you up to the destruction of your flesh to save you soul? You decide.
The fact is that none of this would be happening if AFC, its leaders, and others had an ounce of character.
You are attempting, unsuccessfully I will add, to discredit me by calling me mean (and whatever other nonsence I can’t even recall because I don’t care) but you cannot bring an accusation against me or my character. Why? Not because I’m perfect, but because I’m not a bastard. I’ve been properly fathered. If you could you already would have, but you can’t because there isn’t anything that isn’t already under the blood.
You’re just mad because I am calling out BC and the corrupt influence of AFC in North County. I hold you accountable to the bible you say you preach. Now I expect you to live it. No more fornicating with your co-laborers. No more adultery. No more incest. No more molestation and rape. No more lying to cover it all up. No more I say, no more.
Everything that ever gave you any credibility has been stripped from you. You are now back in the ghetto surrounded by the fruit of your labor. Take a real good hard look at it all. If you ever want out, really want out, you’ll embrace the Character of God and stop trying to use His gifts, talents, and ministry to validate the thug life at AFC. It ain’t cute!! It ain’t God!!
BTW, we’re on our way to Davina’s. If your hungry, come have some dinner.
hey does anyone know what terri cook is doing now? How is she with everythingthat happen?????????
“I am perfect” That’s pride talking – plain and simple.
Ginom….she is in Temecula. Apparently, all the pressure from the “building project” was too much to handle. That is the story they’re sticking to anyway. She is hurt because everybody disowned her and now she doesn’t have anybody…..sob sob.
Anybody that knows TC knows she is no victim. She is more of a silent partner and co-conspirator. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Bottom line is, she had scriptural grounds for a divorce and she jumped on the chance to get out before judgment came. She probably is repentant though. She loves God. Man I hope so.
OK here we go again…
Ignore the things about them, their spirit, the other sides of truth.
Call everyone else who doesn’t agree a cult
Use everyone’s weaknesses and failures against them
Intimidate them, belittle them and reject them to get submission
Use spiritual words and concepts to attempt to cloak it
Come stronger in destructive direction as retalation for getting out of line
Befriend with kindness only those who agree with their view
TEXT BOOK
Abusive churches
SG does these stright out of the book. Pick it and read it. There are 5 others she does also. She says almost word for word what that book says. MAN YOU GUYS NEED TO SEE THIS!!
WE HAVE BEEN GETTING DUPED BY HER CULT!
All hail the queen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You lie about TC getting out because of that reason… if I was you this is a point I would have to disown you and belittle you for being a liar. Then begin telling you that this proves that everything you say is a lie. bla bla bla
Because you are right she is no victim. But Your acusations about her are crazy stupid. You say everything like you know and about this for sure you are really ignorant!
Which is proof that evrything you say is a lie. right????
We know the drill!!
Yikes….You can’t put quotes around a partial sentence to feed your foolish arguments. Quote the whole line if you’re going to quote me.
Liar….that what Yikes is…..plain and simple.
Mt….the shot caller thug is out on the yard. What?…. did they let you out of lock down for your 1 hour yard time?
Bring it!!! Lets see what you got tonight. I hope you brought your lunch…….
SG- All I can say at this point is that you can attempt to pass judgement on me or my family, and even others on this blog but it doesnt matter. Because we dont need your apporval to go on with our lives. What is past, is just that, IN THE PAST. I will be the first to admit that I in no means have lived a perfect life, but I can always depend on is the grace of God to be there as soon as I repent. So you see SG, all the alligations you are trying to bring against my family are under the blood. And weither you can handle it or not, we have moved far on from those days of our youth and are experiancing the blessings of God in every area of our lives.
So again, I think that you unwarrented attack against my family only proves that you are unable to show the Love of Christ if people dont agree with you. And remember SG, “love you neighbor as yourself.” I dont think that you would use such tasteless tactics had I been your son or a close friend. What would you do if someone came against your family in the matter in which you are doing to me??
I know that there are MANY verying opinions on this blog, but as Christians lets try and treat eachother with respect and love. There is no need to personally attack any individual on this blog including SG. And if I have offended anyone or hurt anyone on this blog in anyway, you have my most sincere apology. I am in no way here to cause pain or offense to anyone. I can say in all humility that I love you all and pray for nothing but blessing to overtake you!
To Abe, I loved your post. Thats my BABY having his wifeys back!!! Smooches!
Sabrina
Lights out!
Chow time is at 5am for the upper tier and 6am for the lower tier.
For those who want to get free….Chapel service is 24hrs a day. Give us a call.
This is utter maddness!!!
Yaaaawwwnnnn!!!!!!!!!
Take your fangs out and put them in your denture draw for the evening would you please!
May God bless and multiply everyone who Loves Jesus!
Nope, not a liar. A “misreader” (is that a word?) evidently.
Yes, the comment was accidently taken out of context.
Yes, pride was still talking.
Wow SG, maybe MT was cell mates with your son and just got done breading his hair??? What do you think?
So this is how you think of yourself, well nice to know that all those years “ministering” in jails was a front. Seeing as your post clearly shows that you think of yourself more highly then of an inmate. Major ego issues SG, big time!!!!
I forgot to say earlier, WHATS HAPPENING AND BEAUTY, I really appreicate your alls support and love! And I look forward to working with you both to advance the kingdom of God in the earth!
God is truely sooooo good!
Sabrina,
He sure is… all the time, all the time – You are good! Oops, can you tell I was listening to Israel H?
From good to great in 2008! Looking forward to working with you too!
God Grace is enough…..I’ll tell Kenny you said that and we’ll laugh like crazy. We talk often.
I’ve already stated that the people we knew in prison have more integrity and character than most of the people at AFC. They will get a laugh at how you guys come out to fight your so called spiritual warfare and then whine about it when you can’t handle the truth about yourselves. “Oh your so mean….oh I don’t feel the love…..oh stop talking about my family……” And then you brag about casting out devils and overcoming this and that…..
It is hilarious………..and you think your going to accomplish something…..you will once you learn about character….heck even inmates will tell you that.
Honestly, I knew a lot of inmates that could teach everyone at AFC a great deal. I hold them in higher esteem that most AFC leaders. Why? Because they’ve taken responsibility for their wrong doing. They would see right through the AFC posers on this blog and laugh you right out of the chapel. Mostly because they would know that the posers are not who they say they are. And they would be right.
AFC is a paradigm of what goes on in prison in regards to gangs and the social structure of gangs. It is exactly the same thing.
MT……..what you can launch an all out attack against someone as long as they’re not looking? Sounds just like the guy you adore….BC.
I’m right here “looking you in the eye” and now you got nothing? Figures
Stop lying about being a Marine. You’re no soldier.
Hey…it looks like we’re playing good cop bad cop. The so called new leaders at AFC don’t want to do the “real” work so they’re letting me be the bad cop. They come in AFTER me to pat your little heads and give you a little encouragement.
In reality, they know what I’m saying is true. They’re glad someone is finally saying it.
That is okay AFC, I don’t mind. Someone has to grow these people up so they can get ready for the real world. None of them are yet ready for true spiritual warfare. They couldn’t handle it for a minute. The devil will chew them up and spit them out.
Your welcome!!
Susanne,
Like you said, already knew, right? I didn’t prove anything. I’m also not here to lie or cover up, honestly. I only posted because I saw a couple of people dialoging and wanted to have a good conversation. All I did prove is that our family has moved on and chose to live a life with Christ and keeping our relationship with Him first and foremost in our lives. My point was this, you tried to put us down thinking we were unable to handle it. You tried to put us down and accuse my wife of having an affair, which she has never done. Only to try to prove your point. When I shared with you that you were incorrect about the affair, you didn’t make any comment in regards to that, no apology, or remorse for wrongly accusing her of something she did not do.
Now here’s my point. Stop trying to use my family in your little agenda. Show some respect for those who love Christ. Your accusation that my wife had an “affair” is slander and defamation of character and I can use that against you legally.
Susanne, just a note, extra marital relationships have taken place in churches other than just AFC.
You completely skipped over my comments about leadership trying to steer us in the right direction. You disregarded the fact that I don’t know why you would try to put our family down to support your cause. There’s more that you could have done but didn’t. Again, I urge you to consider your words wisely or I will have an attorney review this page.
To What’s Happening, God Bless you woman of God! I’m so glad that my wife has a great woman of God to lean on, learn from, and help build the Kingdom of God with. You and your husband are awesome and we appreciate you and your family.
Beauty, thank you so much for the kind words. I appreciate the support. I knew and still know that I didn’t and don’t have to acknowledge these comments. However, I had to allow my God an opportunity to be glorified. Afterall, it’s the very least I can do for what He’s done for me!
Bri, you are my queen! I love you tremendously and respect you so much for how far we’ve come together. Let our Christ be glorified in our lives and show forth His love to everybody we can. We will take the earth for God.
Everybody else, I just wanted to share that my family and I were at AFC finishing up the move. I cannot explain the excitement and anticipation for what God is moving us towards. There were many men and women of God united to get this finished and there is a definite air of excitement among us as we make this transition. I still saw many people laughing, smiling and having a good time. It was awesome and everybody’s expectancy is rising. Sunday’s going to be an awesome time and we look forward to seeing you there, if you can make it.
God Bless Everybody!
Abe
Hey genius….Okay And and SG are not the same person. Ask the Avatar expert and he’ll tell you the same.
Whats happening plainly posted that Barry Cook is still the leader at AFC.
Mark, you’re showing a blatant willingness to follow a person in sexual misconduct. Wow, bro, at least you’re honest about fornication. Meaning, you’ve probably already checked out the San Diego Girls website, haven’t you? Dude, you better get real.
Sorry, I guess I’m just a prud……whatever.
Yes you did Abe. Many of the people you listed were involved in extra marital relationships while married just like you and Sabrina. I stated that my point is that BC’s influence led to an epidemic of adultery at AFC. At least two of the four initials you mentioned had affairs. This is 50% not including yours. I know these people are mending and that is as it should be, but again, you and you alone are putting the focus on yourself.
The spirit of adultery at AFC operated through the headship and corrupted many marriages. This transferance of iniquity is the curse of the father being passed down to the generations.
What’s happening stated that BC is still the leader at AFC. No one has witnessed the public repentance and apology of BC. Therefore, the people of AFC and those who are influenced are potentially in jeapordy.
Go back and listen to Arch Bishop Veron Ashes tape about this. He preached at AFC about this transferance and warned the people to not allow every person (the so called altar team) to lay hands on you. He was dead on right about that.
You can keep allowing your wife to make you feel victimized if you want. But it was she that came out intially on this blog running her trap. Don’t try to lead me when you don’t even have your own wife in submission. Okay?
Abe, I never said your wife had the affair……………….as far as I know she did not. I suggest you re-read my post before you threaten me with a law suit, brother….
So does that mean the if he – in your infallible opinion – had his “own wife in submission” that you would then follow his lead?
Somehow, I don’t think so.
SG, make up your mind… It’s about BC, it’s not about BC, it’s about what you want, it’s not about what you want, it’s about every body else’s business, it’s not about every body else’s business, it’s about restoration, it’s about uncovering every alleged sin (well, not every one, only the ones that belong to everyone else).
Where’s your faith? You don’t think God is big enough to “fix their wagons”? Have you forgotten that you can accomplish more in your prayer closet than on a blog?
Maybe it’s an exercise in reverse psychology… SG wants to see change, so she runs around telling folks they can’t change – just so they’ll show her they can.
Let me guess, every bit of progress that AFC makes will then be to your credit… no fair, you already showed that card.
Before you get all excited, this isn’t a “whining victim” post, it’s a “WAKE UP AND SMELL WHAT YOU’RE SPREADING” post.
Susanne,
I didn’t try to bring any attention to myself. You were the one that made the accusations and asked the questions. I answered them. I didn’t have to but I did. I only testified of what we went through and a some of the process that that took place. I testified so that you could see God’s work in our life. You didn’t even give Him any honor for that. I’m sorry if you felt we were still in that same young and broken state but I do assure you that we have moved on, grown in many more ways than I can tell you.
I knew you were going to come with the whole “pattern” theme. In your words, epidemic. I’m sorry but that whole approach is old and tired. It’s a tool to use to look for repetitions. I understand it. Here’s a pattern to my life, that I learned from leaders and friends at AFC. Pray for my neighbors, my friends and my enemies. Seek God’s face and His presence. Reach out to those who are lost, hurt and dieing in this world and show them the pathway to heaven. That they don’t have to struggle with life’s battles anymore. They can live a life free of sin and live a victorious life. There’s so much more I’ve learned from them but I can’t put it all here, that would take years.
I knew my wife was going to post. In fact, she had me read it before she did. Because she’s submitted to her husband as the Bible instructs. I don’t dominate her and she wanted to offer another opinion and view of what was being said in regards to AFC. It differed from your opinion and you attacked her.
I know to watch out for prays for us. I know about the transferrance of spirits and such. I’m not a rookie like you try to keep assuming I am.
Are you still assuming that my wife had an affair? Is that what you said by “50% not including yours? If they are potentially in jeopardy, how come you seem so against us at AFC. If you feel that we’re in jeopardy, do you genuinely think that the way you came at my wife and I was going to allow us to believe you are for us? Also, I mentioned seven initials, not four.
Susanne, I’m not offended by you. I love you! Yes, I said it, I love you with the love of Christ. I know you don’t need to, or probably don’t even want to hear it but it’s true. God Bless you in every way possible.
However, I’m not pulling back. Watch your words in regards to our family. I’ve already saved the page once and I’m going to again. Not the address, the actual page and site, with the contents and everything. Saving it as an html and a document.
What’s Happening, I know it seemed as though you were leaving this blog. I hope you don’t, the testimonies were awesome and you shared things that I hadn’t heard. It’s awesome to hear of the great things that God is doing not just in AFC but throughout this area. Please continue to share more.
Beauty, I’m looking forward to one of your posts as well. So insightful with a definite passion to see the people of God succeed, grow and live thier lives as children of our most awesome Father.
Blessings to All!
Susanne,
I’ve re-read it. It’s not about the direct comment. It’s about the implication. You see, it’s implied in your wording. And, according to law, implying is just as punishable. I’ve researched it many times over. In fact, I’ve had to use a lawyer once before because of it. So, why don’t you please re-read it and see how it’s implied. I’m sure there’s a couple of other people on here that felt you were implying it, as well. It’s all there in black and white.
I’m sure I can have a few other people step forward and say they felt their character was attacked as well. People that have been mentioned and I know they don’t read this blog. So, again, I can re-read it all I want. I can tell you how it came across to me and my wife. It seems that Mark, as he’s known here, and Beauty agree with me. That we were being personally attacked and slandered against.
Abe, your post clarified that it was you that had some kind of relationship outside of your relationship with your wife. As you stated, many people know about this and you gave your testimony about the process of your healing. This process is what I was asking you for. I wanted to hear someone who experienced this at AFC actually come out and give testimony to it. We all know that grace covers these things, but it is good to hear honest people give honest explanations. As I recall, I thanked you for your post.
There is no slander here and you know it.
Again, thank you for being honest about your mistakes and telling us how you overcame them. This is what we should do. It helps people. The transparency is proof of going all the way to the cross.
Hi BeautyfromAshes,
Good evening! It’s great to hear from you again. I don’t know if you saw my update about the church. We’re so excited. It’s going to be awesome! We really can’t wait. I just realized, nobody is taking pictures of it. You should see all the people are free and having a good time in the midst of what could be a sad and disastrous time. We should take some and send them your way!
Blessings!
Susanne,
Are you kidding me? You said, and I quote, “I actually heard that someone did everything with another man except for intercourse, but doesn’t qualify that as an affair.” So are you accusing me of not only having an affair but having one with a man?
Susanne, I have never had a relationship outside of the one with my wife. She will tell you that looking you in the eye, as will I. So, your information is horribly inaccurate. Please tell me how you gathered that from my post because that is a good one.
There was no mention of your wife having an affair. Like I said, I never said that she did and I did not imply that she did. You are misinterpreting what I said. I was not condemning anyone specifically….only making a point about the numerous people who have talked to me about their affairs.
In one instance, one person told me that their spouse had an affair as a direct result of the hurt and dissappointment they felt after confronting BC about some inappropriate behavior they witnessed and having him turn on them. This situation resulted in a retaliation affair in the household. The point is that these things seem to happen, as you say, in a pattern. I used the term epidemic.
Personally I’ve attended church for over 20 years and I have never been directly told about so many extramarital relationships in one body. For the size of AFC, it seemed to me to be an epidemic. We had to ask ourselves why and protect my own marriage by leaving AFC.
Abe, so many people told me directly about these things. It is so tragic all the lives that were tore up. I have to ask myself why anyone would choose to be a part of something that resulted in so much devastation. Maybe you can explain that to me.
I did see your update, and I’m so excited for you guys! Taking pictures is an excellent idea – it is, after all, a milestone moment.
My prayer for all of you during this move has been that it would be seen for exactly what it is… a step forward and a time for celebration! God is good, and he does answer prayers!
“No limits, No boundries, I see increase, all around” Too bad it’s after 2, I’d be cranking that song!
On a more serious note… Your 11:47 post made think “Future Pastor in the house” and the 12:59 post was humbling… wow, I consider it a privledge to be given the opportunity to work with such incredible men and women of God!
Abe, that person who told me about doing everything except intercourse was not your wife. I may have ran my sentence structure wrong, but I was NOT referring to your wife. Like I said, no one has ever said anything, including myself, about Sabrina having an affair. Again. as far as I know, she did not. I’ve never heard or said differently.
I will not post the name of the person who shared that info with me because they have not disclosed that information to their spouse. But if necessary, I can have them summoned.
I said “someone” and that “someone” is NOT Sabrina. I’ve clarified that clearly.
In many relationships nowadays whether just dating or whatever, some times people characterize even cheating on a boyfriend or girlfriend as an affair. I though that was what you were talking about in your earlier post. Something about an interim relationship during a break up. Then you talked about the restoration process. I thought you were referring to this as an “affair.”
No it is not about any other person. As you have read from others, the only person anyone is holding responsible for an explanation is the leader of AFC.
To date I know for a fact that others have contact AFC leaders about what they witnessed for themselves first hand and were completely ignored. Many people were slandered from the pulpit, alienated from their church family, and outright cursed by AFC leaders. Several people, including some on this blog, were told that their marriages were cursed and not of God by senior AFC leaders and then inappropriate passes were made toward the bride to be. This woman can and will also be happy to speak to the authorities about this.
Do you know that a large group of people are contemplating a law suit right now. Each of them have detailed accounts of incredibly horrifying details of misconduct that woudl make a sailor blush. Instead of lawsuits, all we’ve asked is that the leader of AFC meet with the community and speak to us directly about these things. Yet we are shunned and publicily labels as “the enemy” for making a stand for righteousness.
There is consistant attacks against anyone who speaks out about the truth they experienced.
I know some would like to believe that I am a long poster and that there is no one else to give an account to, but that is not accurate at all. People want answers. Not excuses….just answers.
We request again that we be given the opportunity to speak to BC directly about the many allegations before him.
Susanne,
I will go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt but I must tell you that it surely felt to me and my wife that you were accusing us of having affairs, which I assure you never took place. I ask you to please believe me and my wife in that and let it go. We have sincerely moved on and grown in so many ways. I hope you can see that in my posts. Again, I don’t take credit for any of it. We nearly threw our lives away and it was by God’s wonderful and unbelievable love, grace and everything else that we are where we are today.
If you sincerely want me to explain it then I ask you just for a brief moment even, open your heart up and listen with your heart and all the faith that you have in God to what I’m about to share with you. I will tell you my account of why I’m still at AFC and serving God at Ambassador Family Church. I’ve shared this with a few people who have asked. Here’s my take and again, I just ask that you listen with your heart and don’t judge any of it because I really don’t have any agenda here. Please don’t pick any part of it apart and say, well that explains it because it all goes together.
I’ve been asked why we attend. I’ve been warned to run from AFC. By people who are very close to us and I know that they genuinely care about us. My wife has asked at times why we still go there with all the stuff that goes on and has gone on.
The most predominant reason we still attend AFC is because I have specifically asked of God if we are to stay and He answered me very specifically with a strong, “Yes!” and He even gave reasons why. You see, my wife does love me and is submitted to the Christ on the inside of me because if not, she would have been happy for us to take our family elsewhere. But, again, I sought God, read scriptures, sought God again, sought cousel with those who attend and who had left AFC. I did everything in my power to make sure that we were following Christ and I know I am. He gave me specific reasons why we were to stay and I have to say, I fought Him. I wanted a reason to leave. I wanted to go searching but I couldn’t because God compelled me so strongly that as soon as I submitted He immediately took our family to new levels. Our prayers, our Word study and revelation, Sabrina giving into her calling and joining praise and worship and so much more.
You see, in our relationship, as I shared with you earlier, we were admonished and consistently met with to be sure that we did things that would keep our relationship out of danger. But we were also aware of all the backbiting, gossip and stuff that went on. It’s kind of crazy because when one person that had left who was very high up in that leadership sent me an e-mail, I recounted to them everything that I knew. And told them that despite it all, I still believed in everyone of them and still saw the Christ on each of them and respected how God was using them, in the good times and in the bad times. When this person finished reading my e-mail, they immediately called me, crying, and told me that they just realized how mature in Christ I had become.
The reason we’re still at AFC is because we still see and sense and know and believe in what God is doing in and through AFC. We’ve known about all the accusations and what not. We’ve questioned the looks, the things that we’ve seen, heard, so on and so forth. We were able to let the past things in our life go so that we could pursue Christ and now, that is exactly what AFC is doing. We’re letting everything go and moving on. I’m not saying anything that hasn’t already been said here. You’ve laid out some very clear accounts, whether your own, or not, of situations and details that go far above and beyond anything that I’ve said.
I can tell you that God saves somebody at those altars every time we have service. I can tell you that kids are still so blessed at Super Sabado. I can tell you of people who have been at AFC since before you and Hal came that are still there and their lives are still so radically different from when they got saved. I knew one of them before they got saved and now he is preaching and ministering in the very streets that he ran.
I can tell you, like I did to What’s Happening and Beauty last night accounts of people being touched at the altar. Being touched during praise and worship. Being touched by God even as the Word is being preached and crying their eyes out. My wife is probably thee least fake person I know and if she’s being touched by God, you know it.
I can sense great things coming back to AFC. I can see great things on the horizon where we will be evangalizing harder than ever before. We will be taking this region for Christ and Christ alone. We’re on the cusp of it and I assure you it will be more pure, and holy, and awesome and magnificent than ever before. I can see true leaders being raised up not only in AFC but in the churches that we co-labor with. These are things that I see going on. This is why we, my family, choose to continue to serve at AFC. This is our account and nobody else’s. However, I’m sure there’s some who agree.
Susanne, I sincerely say this with everything on the inside of me, there are great and wonderful people at AFC. People who are growing and moving and seeking God and changing lives and ministering to people out in the world, not just in the four walls. These are the things that are going on. I promise you that.
These are just a few of the things because I really can go on quite a bit longer. If you have questions ask. If I had anything to hide, I would have never posted here. But, you’ve known us for a while. Though we never did “fellowship” as often as we should have I sincerely love you and Hal as our sister and brother in Christ. I still remember when we had that New Year’s party at my parents house because I was house-sitting (better than the parties the world would have during house-sittings, I have to say) and you and Hal brought over some food. I remember that you had such a great time that you decided that the very next New Year’s Eve, you would have one of your own at your house but before you even left my parents’ house, we were planning the Super Bowl party at your house.
So, I’ve kind of rambled off the point but I have shared just some of the reasons as to why somebody might stay in a house that brought “so much devastation”. Hey, plus, when we are victorious again, it’s going to be that much more sweeter because of the cost it took to get us there. I assure you we will get there, though.
God Bless you and Hal Abundantly!
Beauty,
It is a priviledge to have you and others co-laboring with us. I assure you, right or wrong, I will tell the truth and share my heart. If I’m right, then to God be the glory. If I’m wrong, I only pray to be quick to repent and move forward learning from my mistakes. I find your comments great but truely humbling, as well. It’s only about the Kingdom of God. To see it established on earth and really give the enemy a sense of hell before he’s stuck there for eternity. I thank you for your comments and look forward to continue co-laboring with you as well!
Susanne, I have comments towards your post at 1:48am but will hold them until I am sure that you’ve read my post stating why we still attend AFC.
Also, again, I assure you, I’ve let go of the affair comment. If you truely didn’t mean to accuse me and my wife of affairs, then I will take your word for it. I dont’ want to dwell on that matter anymore. I choose to move towards more meaningful dialogue. Thanks for clearing that matter up though. I do appreciate it.
The four inititals you mentioned that I was referring to are: LD, LT, JJ, and JT. I did not say that you only mentioned four, I said that out of those four, 50% had affairs not including the “affair” that I thought you were referring to in your earlier posts.
Thank you again for openly sharing the healing and restoration process that occurred in your relationship overall. No matter how it started, I know God can restore, redeem and recover all when the hearts involved are hungry after Him.
I wish you could speak to all the people who’ve shared with me about their process in overcoming their affairs. If I ask them and they wanted to hear from you, would you be willing to speak to them directly? Not about affairs necessarity, but about overcoming sin and its consequences.
If you’re not already, I hope that you and Sabrina will give your testimony publicily. It seems that this is a good season for it at AFC. I hope that even the leaders will follow your example and be transparent about past mistakes. This is real leadership in the working. Everybody falls, but it isn’t always the case that these same people will admit wrongdoing and allow God to do the restoring. So many people pretend and masqerade like nothing is going on. It is rare to find people who will actually step up and be real about their lives and what God can and will do through a repentant heart.
In my experience in dealing with inmates, they’ve always impressed me with their transparency. Believe it or not, their humility is incredible.
Abe and Sabrina, we love you too. We really do. I do hope that you are well protected in where you are at. I know you’ve read the blogs about people who thought they were. Once they left AFC, they realized the work they had to do to get whole again. I am concerned for you both, but if you can truly look me in the eye and say that you are okay, I’ll believe you. I only wanted to challenge you to take a clear and concise look at all the testimony about the situation. The pros and cons.
Hal and I will be happy to meet with you and Sabrina to discuss this further if you’ld like. I feel that your words of love toward us are sincere. You seem like you really have grown to be a man of God.
Be blessed!
Abe, you and Sabrina are doing a great job! I’ve watched you both deal calmly and kindly with countless personal attacks – and that’s just here.
I have to admit though, I’ve been over here laughing…
First, the comment about making a “sailor blush” made by SG made me think of the Ray Stevens song “Mississippi Squirrel Revival”
and then yours “give the enemy a sense of hell…” gave me a flash back of that Sunday… “That when God goes and opens up a can…” Man, I nearly fell off my chair!
Hi Abe, I just read your post about why you’ve chosen to stay where you are. God Abe, you don’t know how much I want to believe what your saying is true. I really do hope it is. For the sake of the innocent.
I look over all the things you’ve stated above and then I hear the others telling me about very opposite experiences. It is really difficult to weight it all out. Abe, people were devastated. Not just hurt, but flat our ruined, spoiled, and most horribly, turned away from God. How do we make that right Abe. Why can’t BC just humble himself and just apologize to the community for all our sakes?
We’ve all invested so much and we’ve all sacrificed generously. Whether we are still at AFC or not…the people deserve to hear the truth from BC himself. And they deserve to hear “I’m sorry.”
Those simple words behind a confession of truth is an act of sacrificial love that will cover a multitude of sin and regret. If BC is still the leader of AFC, he should do this for all of us….including you and Sabrina. Maybe you’re not asking for it, but in the end you will benefit along with those who are asking for it. Even BC will benefit. This is the win win for everyone.
Thank you man of God for your heart. Please pray for Kenny as he too is well on the road to recovery. Victor is doing well. He is an deputy now. Please pray with us regarding God’s supernatural and divine protection in their lives.
Please feel free to ask me anything regarding my posts. I will be happy to qualify or quantify my answers.
Good night all.
Susanne,
First of all, like I said, we have nothing to hide. We will be the first to admit that we are not perfect and in no such way will claim to be. However, will always stand up and testify what God has done for us.
The first thing I thought of was that most people don’t know our testimony or how much we’ve grown because they don’t ask, or at times, can’t look past when we were teenagers. I don’t blame them or hold anything against anybody for it. I recognize it but know who we are in Christ and that our relationship isn’t founded on what others think of us. Otherwise, we’d have given up a long time ago.
I will gladly share our testimony with anybody who asks, from a genuine heart. I sensed that when you asked and that’s why I made that last post. I have to admit, I didn’t sense it at first, from your post this morning but I did sense it then and I’m glad that you can see we have grown. Again, all the glory goes to God for this.
Again, I know of many who are hurt. I really do. I have to assure you that I’ve heard the stories of leaders purposely avoiding former members. I know there was a sense that when you left, you were an “outcast”. But, I can assure you, in my book, I never saw anybody in that way. Never! Plus, being very, very good friends with a couple of the leaders I will say that their heart is the same. That’s part of the stuff that has been left in the past.
So, although we haven’t publicly stated our testimony, I will say that we would be glad to share it if anybody has questions. We’re not here to sway anybody. Just share the love of Christ, our testimony and see God’s Kingdom continue to move in the earth.
And yes, if we meet, I can look you in the eye and gladly say that we are okay. Our walk with Christ has not faltered, we are growing still but we’ve also come a long way. AFC is a place for some but not for all and we can honestly admit that. I don’t have a leadership position and would never presume to represent leaders except on the basis of our friendship.
I’m looking forward to the Kingdom of God reigning and ruling in North County and beyond. It’s an awesome time to serve the Lord and there are many souls to be saved, changed and brought into the Kingdom of God!
Blessings!
Susanne,
I will say that you can believe it. I would not sit here and make up things that I did not see or experience myself. That would be dishonorable to my Father. There are many great things taking place at AFC.
As for BC, I love the man of God. Respect him. Pray for him, consistently. I’ve watched his family go through hell. But, I still believe in him. I still know the calling that God has on his life. The mandate that he has to preach the gospel. I told him that during the TC announcement, I wanted to run on the stage and hug him and bless him with as much love as possible. I told him this, again, when it was just me and him. The TC announcement came with some great apostles and prophets present. There I was, wanting to pour out love to the man that has poured so much into our lives and I couldn’t go up there. Why? Because I thought I might be disturbing what was going on. But, when I told him I wanted to, you know what he said to me, “I would have let you and welcomed you to do it!” This was a conversation just between him and I. Again, true or not, I have to follow the voice of God in my life. The voice of God in my life tells me he’s not through yet. Tells me that he will be stronger than before. Some people want answers and I can’t say whether they’re right or wrong. I can only do as I’ve done here and that’s not compromise with what God has done in my life and what he continues to do with AFC. I know the Kingdom of God is so much bigger than just AFC but AFC is definitely big on building the Kingdom of God.
I know there are some people who’ve been hurt. I’m not saying there’s a right or wrong, I’m saying there’s a means to restoration. I know of one person specifically that has posted here that I know who they are. I know they’re hurt. But, if they walked into AFC today and I saw them, I would love them like they never left. And there’s others that would do the same. I would love anybody who left and came back, if even for one service, whether they left right or wrong. It doesn’t matter to me.
There’s so much to do in this world that letting these things hold us back can’t continue. So, you know what, let people ask me questions. I can’t say that I’ll stand on behalf of AFC. I’ll stand on behalf of my family. AFC is a body and there are many. Some might agree with what I say and do, some might not. But as I said, it’s only for the glory of God and nothing else. I will stand on His Word and His voice in my life.
Let me know if you have any questions. I will refuse to be used to spread gossip or slander so if anybody comes to me with that approach, I won’t be a party to it. I’m not trying to say I have all the answers or that I’ll always be right. But, what I will say is that my stance will be for truth and God.
That’s my heart and anybody who knows me, knows it is.
Blessings!
Abe, no one is attacking you or Sabrina. I know some would like to keep you offended, but I hope that you understand my post at 2:43am. I truly appreciate your insights and input and I will consider them as I continue to weigh this matter out.
It was mentioned above that others have attacked you elsewhere outside of the blog. Is this because of your decision to stay at AFC? Are other people just concerned about you and maybe you’re taking it as a personal attack thinking that people don’t give you enough credit to think for yourself? Please, I’m only asking a question. I am not accusing or attacking. Truly.
Sometimes an overstated concern can make a person feel attacked because they feel the person who is suppose to be concerned for them is actually accusing the other person of being to “stupid” to know what they are doing. In an effort to show independence, some people will respond in almost a rebellious-like fashion to prove their perceived “accusers” wrong. So they do the exact opposite of what they feel the “accuser” is demanding of them.
My point is this. There are a lot of people out there, including myself, who are genuinely concerned for this community. We do not want to see people hurt. Our stand is not about being against anything as much as it is being for purity in the house of God. Some have said that they feel attacked, but in many ways those same people have attacked us for making the stand. The lack of communication in this situation is causing a lot of perceived division. In most instances, many of us on both sides agree on many of the same things.
There are a lot of people that just want to hear from one person. The frustration comes when others are attempting to speak on behalf of that person. It feels like to us we are being manipulated. Many feel this way.
Well, Rome wasn’t built in a day right?
Hope to hear from you soon.
Beauty,
Glad that you’re enjoying the posts! I have to admit, it’s been good for me. I’m not trying to rebuttal anything she’s said. I don’t want to argue. I want to see all of us grow from this and I know we will. Hey, keep in touch. You can, if you’d like, let me know and I can get my wife’s e-mail address to you and we can stay in touch to build the Kingdom of God together. Also, I say again, continue to share with us because Sabrina and I have enjoyed your posts. I’m sure there will others that will try to say they have heard this and that and you’ve seem to clear things up no matter what side they’re posting from and that’s been a pleasure to see.
Blessings!
It’s really getting late and I was intending to be in bed an hour ago so I will respond to your latest post at 3:12am, 1:12 our time, tomorrow. I have to re-read a bit because I don’t remember saying that we were being attacked. I will check again and reply.
Blessings again!
Hi Abe, the attack was mentioned on the post at 2:32am. The post at 2:32am was not you.
Okay, I’m tired to. I’m normally in the hay by 9:00pm every week night. It was just nice to have a civil conversation with someone even though the issues were sensitive.
Good night.
Abe,
Don’t change a thing – keep letting the Holy Spirit guide you, He hasn’t led one person the wrong way yet 🙂
I’ll definitely be around, I think some things must be genetic 😉
and I’d love to keep in touch… What’s Happening has my e-mail address, RW does also, so definitely have Sabrina drop me a line.
My husband is dying to see the west coast – we’ve talked about taking a vacation out there for years, so hopefully you’ll all get to meet him soon, too.
Either way, I’ll probably be back there in June.
Keep posting about the great things God is doing! It’s so encouraging for everyone, and helps to keep the focus where it belongs.
To quote a mutual friend… “Success to the kingdom! Success to you!”
the 2:32 post refered to the blog only, and was not intended to infer otherwise.
Hopefully that clears things up.
Good morning,
Abe you were awsome.
Beauty for Ashes you really help bring clarity
SG
BC has said he didn’t do it. He has said he was sorry publicly for all the hurt and pain someone told me over 9 different times. Many in the church ask him to stop saying he was sorry everytime he got up to preach.Cried and ask forgiveness for all the hurt and pain.. He has said he was sorry to individuals and others. Why do you think many stayed. That is why we don’t whack him about this subject. When I came back to visit I hugged him and ask how he was and he cried then and told me he was sorry he had caused all this to come on the church and the body of Christ. He tried a number of times to resign but no one wanted him too. They begged him please don’t resign or pull away. Selfish… he should have done whatevr he needed to because staying and trying to help while hurt caused more mistakes and more hurt.
He wasn’t trying to resign to run but because he loved the church!
600 people did not leave over that subject alone. Nor over supposed spiritual abuse. They did allott of crazy stuff when they were first formed most of it was done by the very people you are now embraceing. I don’t think if you knew him he had ever said don’t speak with these people. When he ask his old leadership team to love on people as there only job. They balked at him and took offense. He ask them call people and appologize. The moment he was aware of the epidemic. From meeting with others.
Maybe it was to late but you are miss calling his awareness, response and recovery.
He said publicly that he meet with over 20 to 30 differnt people in which I still speak to many of them. He did and let them ask anything they wished. TC did also for along time.They told him they left because of situation with leaders and not him to his face. You may have teamed with a wrong group.
For that matter he would have steped down at the divorce I think but the building stuff required him to keep moving UNDER EXTREEM PRESSURE. He loved the church and the people I am sure of it. That is why you should do the LK.15 thing…props “Nolan”!!
Sure he has probly made some bad jusgement calls along the way But your version is one side. There remains much more to the outworkings. If you were mature you would not curse everyone or the church or BC. You would bless!
Lastly and THIS IS HUGE!
Putting your and others recovery on the back of one person or you can’t get healed is FLAT wrong period!
You might feel he can do more and maybe he will. But in the mean time YOU ARE HOLDING THEM CAPTIVE TO SUPPORT YOUR AGENDA. Bottom line fact. If they moved on forgave whatever then you would have no support! Just you ranting on and on!
If you wanted them free you would teach them that but you don’t you tell them… if you won’t to be free then ABCDEF must happen first. You leave them with the sense that they have no control themselves or responsibility. So you are stuck if he doesnt do it LIKE this…in Jesus name. See babys I love you guys. Ding dong the witch is dea…no… here now… it’s SG.
If you cared you would teach them to be free based on personal growth and not based on another. Ask any expert queenie!
Enjoy your saturday!
LK.15 my new favorate scripture!
MT, I have not taught anyone not to forgive and move on. Recently we had a small gathering of people and I asked a specific person to come and talk to the group about reconciliation. I also invited two AFC leaders to come and talk to us about spiritual authority and church leadership in the hopes of bring the word into people’s lives who no longer trusted leadership.
This wrong group as you say is only asking for one thing. And that is to hear from BC themselves. Some people might want to characterize them as wrong because they want to see or hear for themselves that there is real change and sincere remorse, but some experts would say different. There is healing when people have the opportunity to talk to the person who has offended them and to hear for themselves that person’s account. Even Matthew tells the church that if a brother knows he has offended someone, he is to go to that person. Many feel that because BC did not apologize publicily, that he is unconcerned for what they have gone through.
Even in the news paper article, it was pointed out by several people that he didn’t show any real concern for the people, only himself.
MT, more people left than stayed. Have you spoken to all 600 to ask them personally why they left? No you haven’t.
I have put my contact information out in public to give people the opportunity to tell their story without the threat of retaliation. Every time a person tried to communicate their concerns, they are attacked and threatened into silence. When given the opportunity to speak, they did and it was “freeing” in a sense.
Read this entire blog and you will see that several people, who I don’t even know by the way, have stated in lengthy description their observation of the attack against me for only wanting to see purity restored in the house of God. You yourself came out maliciously against me and I initially responded in a care free and even joking manner. You insisted on attacking me and then when I finally stood up to defend myself you dissappeared. Now after a very sincere and heartfelft dialogue between old friends, you come out again this morning and begin the attack all over again.
Mt, none of this is just my version. You keep saying that hoping that no one else will be willing to stand up and defend their position. We will. Not because of unforgiveness or malice, as you have displayed, but because right is right and wrong is wrong.
Mt, people were silent for years and years. After so much hurt and continued disappointment, they could not be silent any more.
If we all have to allow the world to decide matters of the church, then everyone has failed miserably in their assignment.
People have posted above that my family was talked about after we left the church in a very hurtful way. We said nothing for over four years. Many AFC people have come out on this blog and have attacked me personally because I would dare to speak up and request answers. They said attacked my son and his situation. They attacked my family stating that if only people knew the truth about us; and on and on. There is plenty of heated and passionate conversation to go around. Continually, I have stated that I can be reached for clarification. Continually I have asked to meet with AFC leaders. And continually AFC has responded in a way to goat an argument trying purposefully to take the focus off the real issues to make me out to be something I am not. All I did was defend myself against that all out attack. I stood up for myself. Historically when anyone at AFC did that they were treated with great contempt and malice just like you and others have done on this blog. You called me trailor trash and a whole lot worse. You feel completely justified in doing so even though you have never met me and therefore you have no first hand knowledge of who I am and how I live my life, yet you felt completely confident to slander me many times. Even though no one has ever accused me of hurting some else in ways described by some since their association with AFC. People accused me of attacking them, when all I did was defend myself and continue to stay on point about these issues. This was never about anything else but qetting answers from the source. AFC people who were not involved with any misconduct chose to speak in proxy for another person. Just because they were not always received, doesn’t mean that they were attacked. Maybe they should have stayed out of it completely since it did not involve them directly.
Now here you are threatening me again and again just because I have not taken your word as accurate. I was never asking you or anyone else to speak on behalf of this situation. Everyone who had questions, was asking BC to speak. Many believed they were being manipulated just like they’ve been in the past. I am not the only one who did not take third party denials as an acceptable answer.
The concern for us is for the community at large. And yes, we are concerned about people who may or may not be safe at AFC. Direct answers from the leader of AFC may have alleviated these concerns.
Like I said before, we truly hope that the old practices at AFC are gone. We do not want anybody else getting hurt the way others have been hurt.
Abe is one of the only people that spoke truly from his heart about this on this blog. He did not mix it with hurtful wounding words and because of that, he is probably the first credible person who has spoken on behalf of the current AFC experience. He is not employed there, he seems to have no other agenda than to bring healing.
I hope that dialogue continues so we can all experience real restoration. That is what is needed here more than anything. Not threats and more name calling.
To Everyone on the Blog:
In recent day particularily an all out attack against me was launched in an effort to discredit me by goating me into a “fight” with several AFC members. Initially I tried to ignore those attacks, but eventually I felt I had to defend myself against the onslaught. In that time, I may have offended people who I did not intend to offend. I want to apologize to those people. I never wanted other people to get caught in the “cross fire” so to speak, but that may have inadvertantly occured. Those that initiated the attack against me should apologize for creating such an atmosphere of malice and contempt. I did not create the atmosphere, but I do humbly and sincerely apologize to anyone who may have been offended.
If I can clarify anything specific or if anyone needs a personal apology, please let me know. I love the family of God and I truly want all parties to be made whole.
I think that Abe and Sabrina are good peoples… I respect them and will not comment on their issue with SG… However MT aka MARK aka BC (if you go back to previous posts MT and MARK’s avatars switches up a lot)….
MT aka MARK (BC) – JUST SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP… thank you… stop yawning in the blog– you’ve already let out enough bad air…
MT- My uncle is a sheriff in a police department (wont tell you where) but I have asked to put in a trace on your posts/ computer to find out your location… It will prove that you are a LIAR and not living in GA… and we’ll see what else comes up…
Okay And…
I understand that you have not appreciated the things that MT has said, but could you back up just for a minute…
For the 2nd night in a row, some good stuff happened here – progress is being made for folks on both sides of the issue.
Coming in and making more threats/accusations will not help. Not only that, the threat you are making isn’t plausible, so it only discredits you.
If the atmosphere of feeling attacked continues, then the message of people’s posts will continue to be missed – the reader will be too busy looking for the attack. Making an out right threat feeds that atmosphere!
I’ve told you before that I really don’t think MT is BC, and if he were, did you not just do to him the very thing many feel was done to them? “SIT DOWN AND…” I’ve heard many express their unhappiness with the previous leadership shutting them down when they shared their concerns, thoughts, opinions, etc.
If you don’t like a poster’s method of delivery – you should address that… but it will be most successful if you do so from the perspective helping themw express themselves in a way that can be heard or will do no harm.
Just my 2 cents.
To Okay And….you did not start this mornings attack….MT did pure and simple. I know you were just expressing your disgust with MT’s obvious purpose for blogging. And in many ways, I wish he would just shut up to. It’s like a continual dripping……
But I think at this point we should just all ignore him until he is able to conduct himself in a more respectful and non threatening way. He is competing for something here, but we are not. We only want answers which are still being avoided. We don’t want other people speaking on behalf of the person being addressed. This ganging up to intimidate has to stop. I know I am not swayed by this kind of behavior and you shouldn’t be either.
I do appreciate honest and sincere cander, but based upon so many obvious eye witness accounts of misconduct, I will not dismiss people’s first hand experiences. If BC is innocent let him address the community personally about that. He should be willing to allow those who have questions about specific details to make their statements.
i haven’t been keeping an eye on the avatars. seems that there’s been a few new people over the last couple of days. i have noticed some good steps towards restoration and encourage ya’ll to continue to walk out those that bring forth love and truth. for anybody i may have offended in the past, please forgive me. i didn’t mean any harm was just trying to point things out.
SG, you’re right, the avatar situation did appear to be fishy but lets move on from that. i will say that Mark and MT are the same e-mail. i won’t say the same person because we know that more than one person can be using the same e-mail.
I’m sorry, I accidently posted before I was finished. Ha Ha a dropped post. 🙂
Anyway, Okay And……be encouraged and I think the moral of the story today is to not allow any kind of thug like behavior to bring us down to a low level of dialogue. It is apparent that is exactly what some people are trying to do. Lets go ahead and make a united decision today to not allow it.
I don’t know who you are, but I appreciate the fact that you have shown a considerable amount of personal integrity by not allowing anyone to sway your opinion of this discussion one way or the other. You’ve even disagreed with me from time to time. I respect that.
If I know you personally but just don’t recognize your blog name, I hope you’ll call me soon.
Have a great weekend.
Hi Avatar,
Actually I found your insights to be interesting. I’m not offended at you at all. You did what you thought was right. In this kind of situation, we cannot afford to wear our emotions on our sleeve. Thank you for recognizing that guinnfamily@cox.net is just that. A family consisting of more than just one individual. This could be the case with MT/Mark. Who knows and really it doesn’t change much.
Have a great day.
Wow look at my baby go! Abe, I can say that I am truely amazed by your love for the people of God and you openness to share your experiances with others. God has truely brought us a might long way, and its by His grace alone we are were we are today. Man of God I support you in all you do and I am truely blessed to have such a wonderful priest!
SG, if any of my comments offended you or caused you pain, I am genuinely sorry! That was never my intent. I felt attacked and in that felt like I had to defend my self. But glory to God that his mercies are new every morning!
We have a very busy day head of us so we wont be around the blog much today, but I am sure Abe will pop in sometime tonight. But hopefully not too late since we have church in the morning!
Oh yeah, and Abe said “Hi” everyone!
Blessings!
Sabrina
It is pretty obvious that the general public is not going to agree with certain people because of the badge they proudly display. This is not out of disrespect for that individual and must not be taken in that way. This issue will not be resolved by one indiviudal assuming that their position is the final authority and must be adhered to. Especially, when the authority is not recognized unanimously. However, their input and opinion is valued.
I hope to heaven and back that this statement is understood for what is actually being stated. If there is confusion, just ask….don’t come out defending yourself when none of this is about you, your authority, or your personal associations. If the assumptions continue to lean in that direction, a whole lot of listeners will tune them out.
Please be careful to use diplomacy in the highest regard and that regard can’t be about a personal or political agenda to be truly diplomatic.
Blessings to all…and I mean all!!
Hi Sabrina,
G’day to you too. We’ll talk to you both soon. I’m looking forward to service in the morning as well.
I was glad when they said unto me….let us go to the house of the Lord……
Have a blessed day.
SG-
i know that I might’ve disagreed with a couple of things that you might’ve said, but I still stand with you that BC should address the issue publicly… Nothing but love for you my sister…. God Bless!
To Beauty-
Thank you for reminding me about Peace… You are right- there’s good stuff happening in here and I dont want to stop that…. It’s just sad that MT has to lie on the blog to discredit others…. If he has grounds to stand on, then why not just state it…. Instead of attacking others… It’s so not necessary… But I will take SG’s advice and Ignore him… until he has something good to say…
SG –
I would like to take you up on your offer to clarify your post at 1:40.
Could just be my scattered brain today, but I was having a hard time following who you were speaking of. Would it be possible to use names/handles or examples… I’m not asking you to list names/handles of folks who haven’t spoken here, just trying to understand exactly what you were sharing.
Thanks!
Okay, And:
Thanks for understanding the heart of my post!
I completely understand your frustration, but on a positive note, I have seen improvement in the way MT has communicated their thoughts. Let’s encourage that to continue 😉
Hi Beauty for Ashes: Yes I will be happy to clarify my posts.
I did not include any particular person/handle/name because I was speaking in general terms regarding anyone who may be operating in a superior sense of “authority” over this blog, or over other people on either side of the issue.
We are all on equal footing here and there should be no lording one over the other. Everyone no matter their gender, ministerial position, race, age, etc will be discriminated against. I know I will not tolerate it and I believe that others will agree.
So in other words, everyone’s approach needs to be humble. Including the people who are assuming areas of “leadership” or “authority.” No one is exempt from “critic” as long as the person giving is tactful and respectful.
There will be no more turf wars on this blog. This enemy has been exposed and defeated and will not be allowed to surface again.
Okay, we are off to enjoy our holiday weekend. I may or may not be able to post again for while. But I will be available by cell if anyone has a question, comment or concern. 760.622.9976.
Have a blessed day and thank you for your inquiry.
Excuse me, not “Everyone” but “No one”
LOL… I read “no one” – good catch!
No problem, I don’t mind admitting my mistakes. I have no shame.
How is your day? I hope you are doing well. We finally got some sunshine and I’m off to enjoy it. I hope you and yours are doing the same.
In Christ’s Love.
Mine was busy, but good… thanks for asking. We also had some nice weather for a change and a wedding to go to this evening.
Overall, a pretty good day. Enjoy your holiday weekend!
Greetings Men and Women of God!
I know it’s a bit late in the evening but as Sabrina shared earlier today, we had a busy one. Family in town for the weekend with a birthday party, wrapping up the move of buildings for the church (phew!), and then some more fellowship with family and friends. Honestly, I thought about this blog and almost wished I could be here a little more today just because I was so excited about what took place last night. More on that later.
We just got in about a half hour or so ago (10pm PST) but I wanted to be sure to keep my word by responding to a couple of things today. I had some comments regarding a post by Susanne last night and they were just thoughts that popped into my head as I was reading it but I did want to share it. Again, I honestly have no agenda just some open free dialogue to allow what we have achieved here to continue. God is wonderful and I’m so glad to see some hearts being touched even through a blog and what the devil was trying to use as division as an opportunity to grow and find new relationships in the Lord, i.e. Susanne and BeautyFrom Ashes.
I have to say, I did not expect too much activity here with it being a Holiday Weekend but I’m glad to see that there seems to be a new and fresh spirit among us and that spirit is love, unity, peace and an overall respect for each other. It is refreshing to read posts that are not only respectful and mutual but growing towards building new relationships in the Kingdom of God. Let’s make sure to continue to stay in this vein and not let anything detour us from being united and know that we are one family in the Body of Christ.
First of all, let me go back to last night:
Susanne, I’m glad to know that I didn’t accidentally say anything I didn’t intend to. I didn’t remember stating that I felt attacked and so, I was certain that if there was anything along those lines I would have to definitely clear them up. As for my comments about the post at 1:48am. I’ve just re-read it to jog my memory. Another reason I want to share my thoughts is that it seemed that you were looking for my response and thoughts to them but I felt that my post at 1:55am would show you my heart and I wanted to be sure you understood my heart and where I am coming from before I shared my thoughts about that particular post. Because, to take my comments to that post alone, without knowing my heart can be viewed as “negative or contradicting” (can’t really find the right words but these are the ones that come to mind) if not kept in context of where I come from.
So, these are some of my thoughts. I had heard something about a lawsuit and that people were thinking about it. Again, my own personal thoughts about that situation and none of which I’ve discussed with anybody from AFC. To go there would be a detrimental step backwards for the Kingdom of God and I hope and pray that is the reason they are not taking it there. I hope you can see why. If not and you would like me to share why I think that is the case, let me know and I will elaborate.
Also, I do not know of many people that have been addressed from the pulpit, by name, at AFC. I’ve been to nearly every single service for years. I was there for the LT and DT announcement. The VL announcement. The TC announcement. The reading of a “prophecy” that BC read that was basically an all out attack on him, his family, his daughter, his ministry, etc. Okay, I know mentioning these may bring up some mixed emotions but I urge everyone, please know I only brought them up as examples of what I have heard from the pulpit. So, unless there were many people that were spoken against in code, I really didn’t hear too many spoken about from the pulpit after they left. Maybe I’m just naive too, that’s a possibility. But, I sincerely can’t recall any others. I apologize if I’ve missed any and I’m not saying there’s not others but I’m just stating my side of things.
Also, if there is consistent attacks against anybody who speaks out I assure you, they haven’t come from my family. If we have lead anybody to believe that, please let me be the first to repent. Tell me and I will gladly apologize and repent that would never be our heart. Also, there have been times where we knew of people who had left or were going to leave that told us one reason but I knew that was only a reason but not thee reason. If I were going to leave AFC over issues, I assure you, the leaders would know these issues and anybody who asked would know these issues. I’ve learned a great deal from my wife and one of those things is to not be fake. Being fake is a form of religion, and it’s also a form of lying and deceiving. That won’t glorify God in any way. I’m not attacking or accusing anybody, sincerely, just stating my opinion. I have also had friends that have left for one reason, sincerely thought that was the reason, then came to find out that it was really for reasons and situations completely different and God just used that particular “motive” of the heart to move them along to their next place. If I told you how the story of how I got saved, I could show you how God uses the motives and desires of our hearts to move us down the road that He has for us, without us even knowing it! How many of us have used something our kids love as a “reward” for doing what they were “supposed” to do or what we wanted them to do. God’s so funny sometimes. I love Him because sometimes I think He has a sense of humor about things.
And finally, about the leadership. Susanne, I mean this, again, not just saying things to fluff up, divert attention, or spread propaganda, the leadership is truely in another place than even two months ago. I assure you. I happened to be out of town for a couple of weeks in March and missed out on a couple of services. I can tell you, when I was gone a friend of mine told me that God moved on the hearts of those at AFC and those in leadership in new and mighty ways caused a tremendous heart change among them. They are in leadership and they are a dear friend of mine and I even said to myself, “Yeah, we’ll see when we get back.” And to be honest, when we got back, I didn’t get that sense of it initially. We were welcomed back like we were gone for two years by everybody under the sun. But, I dismissed it as, many people are leaving the church and they’re just hanging onto who they can. But, over the last couple of months, I’ve come to see how completely wrong I was for making that assumption and had to repent to God for holding such thoughts in my mind and heart. They really are moving to be more pastoral, more relatable, more real, more open, and more from the heart. Some of that same leadership that you all probably felt attacked by have left. I’m not even accusing them of attacking you all, that’s why I said felt because so many things can be brought about through misconceptions. But, at the same time, I know of people who will ignore former members. I can’t answer for them. That’s something for God to work out in their heart and it’s quite possible that over the last couple of months, that has happened.
So, you see, What’s Happening was telling the truth when she stated that the leadership has acknowledged the failures of the past. But, at the same time, I don’t think they need to publicly state, “Hey, we screwed up, we missed the mark, we repent, and here’s what we’re going to do to move forward.” Why don’t I think that’s necessary? Because God can fix those heart issues within a person and not have that person publicly address every single person they wronged. I believe that holds true for leadership “people”, as well. You may disagree with me and I say, I am fine with that and hold nothing against you for that.
I know I stated a lot but those were just my thoughts. I could be wrong but that’s my heart in it. Again, not to promote or sway just share from my heart so that you may see that there are those of us at AFC that understand the battles and struggles that go on with past members but we also stand in a gap interceding and praying that God mends those that are broken and hurt. I don’t choose to stand in proxy for anybody. I can’t possibly do that because I can’t speak for anybody else but me. However, I’m sure there’s others at AFC that would stand with me in some, if not most, of my statements. I hope that you see my heart and know that I’m not hear to do anything but share my thoughts and opinions. I have many friends that have left and I miss them dearly. Some are doing great and some, not so great. I miss them all though and I do pray for them. They may be gone but not forgotten, so to speak. I don’t believe that if you leave AFC you’re in sin. I don’t believe that if you leave AFC, you’re missing God. I don’t consider them to be outcasts. Now, I will say this, there are some that left and it was for the better. They weren’t people with the same heart, purpose, passion or dream of AFC. Some, those just changed and it was time for them to move on. Some, God forced to move on. Some, the enemy took them out. We all walk different lives but in the end, I have faith that God will always bring it around. He’s done it so many times for my family. Just look at the testimoney I shared last night.
I will repeat this as many times as I need to just to reassure you. I’m not here to promote anything but our testimony, my thoughts and opinions, the love of Christ and everything represented in that. Some of you may not agree with all of my thoughts and opinions and I can respect you for that. To be quite honest, I wouldn’t expect you to agree with me on everything. To be even more honest, I hope you don’t agree with me in everything. Why? Because I’m human. Some of these thoughts are not only based on what I’ve learned from God but they’re mixed with human emotions, human thoughts, and human desires. They’re mixed with the influences that principalities and powers may have on me. But, I do know my heart is in the right place. I do know that everything I’ve said is true from my heart. And most of all, I know that God is my main source for everything I do.
Beauty, glad to hear you had a good day. Hope you enjoyed every bit of it. Here’s a bit of an update for you and those who would like to hear it:
The church is pretty much moved out, just some final cleaning and such. I didn’t get to take pictures because we left our camera at home. People were still in high spirits despite the long week. Everybody’s in such anticipation of our service tomorrow. There were even more people there helping today. We did a sound check today and it was unbelievable. We only had a drummer, keyboardist, and eight psalmists. There were a couple of leaders and some of the folks from the church that is opening up their facility to us, including their Pastor. The presence of God was so strong during the sound check that it became a worship session. God ministered to us, the anointing was so tangible and strong I nearly lost control. Just thinking about it now is causing my eyes to well with tears of Him and His awesomeness, it’s so hard to explain sometimes. To think that we could have lost everything. That the enemy would have seen us defeated but just like when He had Jesus crucified. If he only knew what he was getting himself into, he would have never sent us through all this hell. I’m not talking about the situations that are discussed here, as they are difficult to deal with but more the spiritual attack and assignment that was over the church. I’m telling you, I’m crying right now because I know, deep down on the inside of me, we’ve crossed over you all! It’s going to be awesome and I will be sure to share about tomorrow morning’s service. I love each and everyone of you. Sabrina, you are an awesome woman of God and I thank you for being my help-meet and help-mate. I treasure the gifts and anointings and Christ on the inside of you. Susanne, I am so glad that we were able to, not just move past that wall but, destroy it with some C-4 dunimous power of the Holy Ghost. That wall is not meant to be rebuilt, so let’s keep it down and allow God to continue to reign among us! Beauty, again, thanks for all the kind words and encouragement. I really enjoyed the comment about “Future Pastor in the house” that’s my calling that I sometimes try to run from. Okay! And— I don’t know who you are but thank you too! I appreciate all the kind words from everybody, that I was awesome and that me and Sabrina are good peoples. But we are nothing without our Lord and Saviour. So, keep Him close to your hearts, meditate upon Him in your thoughts, have His name close to the tip of your tongue, have His presence in your home and in your lives! Let nobody tear apart the Kingdom of God and be sure to slap the enemy upside his head everytime you have the opportunity! Just a note, he still has a knot on his forehead from that one-two combo that we delivered on him over the last couple of night!!
I’m so sorry that I’m long-winded, I hope I didn’t/haven’t/don’t bore you! I love sharing the love of Christ and the testimonies of what He is doing among us. I just like to make sure that I don’t leave any holes and that I give you a clear view of my heart. Can you all see it? I hope so.
God Bless you all!
Abe,
I don’t even have the words right now… I can’t even tell you how perfect the timing of your post was – today has had it’s moments (IRL), and this is an excellent ending.
There’s someone else who will really enjoy reading this tomorrow… I’ll let them know.
All the best to you and yours!
PS Not long-winded, but it did resemble a certain calling.
Good morning Abe,
My post will be brief as we are on our way to church. Thank you for your personal testimony. There are a lot of testimonies that are in stark contrast to yours and they are just as valid. Their purpose is not to bring division but to bring truth and accountability to a organization that brought a lot of pain and suffering to wonderful people and their families. Many still consider BC to be the head of AFC and would like to hear him speak for himself regarding some serious issues. These issues are not petty, trite, or washed out by events that may or may not be taking place now.
If things are truly changed at AFC, the fruit of that change will be evident to this entire community. We hope and pray for the PEOPLE of this community that no other families suffer from any further gross misconduct and/or spiritual abuse of authority at AFC.
Yes, C4 was directly set up to explode and destroy the “thug – life” mindset of control and manipulation at AFC. We hope this spirit will never be allowed to re-occupy the people again. If allowed to, it may come back seven times worse.
The people of this community will not tolerate, engage in, financially support, or give credibility to any organization that reproduces iniquity in the people they say they are here to serve. The community is set free from the kind of control/abuse that has kept it bound for so many years.
The open heaven we are all feeling is being enjoyed by all because of the Freedom we have in the Holy Ghost. We are free from the bondage of sin and we accept Grace as our deliverer. We will not use grace as an enabler to continue in habitual patterns of sexual misconduct, abuse, lying, deception, or other demonic and psuedo forms of leadership or ministry. The coven of false apostles and prophets is dismantled. We cast it down and forbid it to resurface in this territory. In Jesus’ Name.
——————————
Abe and Sabrina, be released in Jesus’ name to fulfill the will of God. Be strong and of good courage. Be blessed and made whole in every way.
If you ever need anything, don’t hesitate to give us a call.
In Christ’s love,
Hal and Susanne
Good Morning Church:
As we can see from “Dad’s Post” the enemy remains crouched outside the door waiting to re-occupy the church. He names leaders because he knows that anyone that does not have adequate levels of character to support their leadership role, are easy targets. Once that spirit can corrupt the headship, the rest of the body is vulnerable unless one member or two decide to fight back and drive the enemy out of the Body. However, if allowed to re-enter the church, AFC or any other church, the bible says the potential of corruption is seven times worse.
I pray that every leader does all he or she needs to do to purify themselves through prayer and fasting and genuine accountability to ensure the Church’s longevity in this community. Leaders must stop underestimating what can and will happen to themselves and to the church when they do not repent quickly. If you yield to temptation and compromise the integrity of the church do not let that sin live a day uncovered by the blood of Jesus. That blood is the only righteousness we can claim to defeat the true enemies of the cross.
We know this poster (Dad) was only trying to mock the situation. The ugly truth about the post is that many of these types of offenses are committed and are being committed in the house of God everywhere every day. We must continue to focus on the work of Great Commission but we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to perverseness of any kind. This cannot be denied any longer.
Father, I humbly come before you asking you to pour out your grace over your church. Where there is unrepentant sin, I ask that the people will turn away from the sin and turn back to you and receive forgiveness and deliverance. I thank you for the Holy Ghost and pray that the church receive the dunamis power of God to overcome the enemy’s devices. We will not be led astray through the temptation of the momentary pleasure of sin. Father I pray that we grow in love, in grace, and in purity to ensure success in the Kingdom of God. Your word says, Without holiness and peace no man shall see God. We want to see you Lord. We do not want our prophetic eyes and hears to be corrupted. We want our words to be your words and our works to be ordained by your spirit. Holy Ghost fill the Virtuous Church to overflowing. Our lampstands are full and we are made ready for the return of our Lord.
Let the church arise and her enemies be scattered.
Dad’s post has been removed due to it’s unacceptable level of vulgarity and filth. This conversation has already had too much infighting as it is, even after I have asked the participants to cool things down and have humble love – which I am AGAIN asking you to display here – but for people to degenerate into vulgar speech is to take things way to far. I will continue to monitor things here and delete any more comments that cross the line.
I do want to thank those of you who have, indeed, changed your tone and written with more love and humility. Please keep setting the Christ-like tone for others.
Greetings Everybody!
I did not see “Dad”‘s post and it sounds like I should be glad that I didn’t see it. Scott, I appreciate you keeping a watchful eye here to be sure that things do remain in a good attitude and spirit and that nothing vulgar is allowed to stay. We should all be able to operate out of love, respect, humility and grace.
Susanne, I know there are testimonies that may contradict what I’ve said. I would hope that you can see, they do not contradict, only testify of different experiences that each of us have had. I too have had experiences that some may view as questionable, or difficult to deal with. Some of these situations go way back to my time as a youth. People being judgemental, speaking negative words or even death over our lives, thinking we would never make it or amount to anything. It’s probably these early experiences that have allowed me to gain a position of being able to not take offense easily. Being able to walk in the confidence of the relationship I have with my Lord.
Again, I say, I only shared my thoughts with you since you asked why somebody would stay in an organization that many view as being destructive. I hope that you can see that there are good things going on and good people at AFC. I assure you that we are not all being manipulated and controlled and I can assure you, that old mindset is broken over the church. I know the things that I say may be hard to believe because the things that others have shared with you. I know, just hearing them, sometimes might cause different emotions, or even fear that I too am being “twisted” but I assure you, with 100% certainty, I went to God myself for my family and asked very specifically and He very specifically answered. We are excited to be serving God at AFC. These things are not to contradict you and others in any way.
I will be leaving to go to a party soon but tonight I will share about our first service at our new location. I will share this, first though, that the service was a great confirmation of everything I had said the previous two days. Sabrina had not read my post from Saturday night but I told her that I was excited because, at the service, God confirmed everything I had said. When she read my post, she agreed that it was right on the money, so to speak.
On another note, I wanted to say Happy Memorial Day to everybody! Let’s remember those who have sacrificed their lives to protect those of us who enjoy the freedom we have here in the U.S.A. Freedom is not free and has cost more than we could ever know. Likewise, the freedom we have in our walk with Christ is something we should remember today, as well! He made the ultimate sacrifice for us. We could never know how much pain, suffering and torture He endured on our behalf. As hard as it was, the only perfect man that walked the earth, loving his friends and enemies the same. As He was being persecuted and punished, He was thinking of enjoying eternity with us in Heaven and was making the ultimate sacrifice to reclaim true victory and freedom!
God Bless you all! I love each and everyone of you! May God’s presence be with you and His love abound in your life!
Abe
Hi Abe,
Yes, I’ve heard your testimony and I’ve heard others. The future will hopefully tell a better story than today. AFC may be taking steps to move on, and that is great, but there is still a lot of work to be done. No one is expecting the virtuous church to fail. That is not what the word says. However, it does state the what is not of God will perish. The fruit will provide the truth by which the future will judge AFC. We are praying for the best to come to our AFC family.
Abe, I never said your tesitmony was invalid. I said that the others that “are” in stark contrast to yours are just as valid. They do contradict what you’ve stated because they do not speak the same thing. Contradiction is not a four letter word. If you’re sure about your position, than the contradictions should not move you in anyway. You are free to make your choice and those that have made the choice to not follow the leadership of AFC are entitled to make that choice as well. Their experience and history at AFC does not tell them to continue in that association. They are happily moving forward in their calling in Christ. We only hope that history does not repeat itself.
I do agree, the precious blood of Jesus was poured out for the ultimate FREEDOM experience. My prayer is that HIS church will apply the blood appropriately. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.
We support 100% genuine Christian leadership and authority. We are opposed to anyone that will utilize that position to lord over a group of people. No one but Jesus is Lord.
Please let us know when and where your next service will be and Hal and I will come visit.
We hope to hear from you soon.
Hal and I are on our way to the beach for the day. We will be in the grassy park area reading a couple of books. Hal has chosen, “Building Blocks of Biblical Character,” by Charles R. Swindoll and I have chosen, “Ministerial Ethics, Being a good minister in a not so good world,” by Joe E.Trull and James E. Carter.
We are interested in learning more about the challenge in today’s society to put Christ over Culture while remaining relevant in this hour.
Have a great day.
SG you seem to try and quote the bible but there is one scripture you seem to have forgot that was he that has no sin cast the first stone and the story was about an adulterous person…Like My self. I have made many mistakes like YOURSELF…NOW have you confessed you sin in front of a crowd??
Also
Everyone on this posts writing is so fake I know all of you and none of you sound like the way you write.
Fake Fake Fake!!!
Barry, open your eyes and see that there are people in your life who care about you. It’s got nothing to do with how “good” you are or are not – on our own, none of us measure up. Through Christ we are more than conquerers… it was you that put it out there in a way that finally clicked for me.
I had no desire to take this conversation online, but you’ve given me no choice.
I understand that you are hurt right now, but lashing out at everyone isn’t fair.
Friends won’t always agree, but they will usually understand, true friends don’t need to understand or agree, they accept us unconditionally exactly as we are and love us in spite of ourselves.
I called you friend, I still do.
Hurt? I am not hurt I merely called it for what it is.
The person posting as Barry C. has the same Avatar as the person posting as “Dad” whose vulgar comment was deleted by Scott.
If that is really Barry Cook, please call me directly. My number is 760.622.9976.
To “Barry C.”
Is there something specific you would like me to repent of?
Barry C: if you are truly Barry Cook and you are truly repenting, we humbly invite you to in the spirit of Grace and Humility to stand before your congregation and speak freely.
If you are being tormented by a devil, “We command that foul spirit to release your mind, will and emotions now in the name of Jesus Christ.” Satan, loose the man of God. Leave him now and let Barry Cook go……..
Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace………….
BarryC- is that you MT? Grace and Peace to you my brother… I will NOT accept any name callings… But I welcome you with love and peace… Please stand up and speak the Truth… Kick that foul spirit out of your mind and soul… In Jesus Name…
Hi Susanne,
I never said that you thought or said they were invalid. I was just trying to reinforce that I understand there are other testimonies and scenarios out there. I can understand that they contradict what I’ve stated. I was also trying to share with you that I have also heard many of these testimonies, and I have not in any way attacked, belittled, or discredited those that I have heard. Like I said, I have some of my own. Perhaps, it was because I shared with you why I still serve at AFC that may feel that I’m totally one-sided on this. I assure you, I hear both sides of the scenario. That was also why I brought up the situation about my recent experience while being out of town and returning.
I was also reinforcing that I hear your heart in this matter. That you would like to believe that everything I have stated is true but so many stories and testimonies have been told to find it hard to believe it. I really appreciate, more than you know, you making an honest effort to believe what I have said despite what you already know. I am in no way attacking those stories or saying that none of them are true. I don’t know what it is but I hear and have heard a lot of those testimonies. Like I said, I’ve been told to run, seek another church, even offered a list of those who others have felt would be good alternatives. Again I say, God has not released me to move on from AFC and until then, I simply cannot disobey His voice in my life.
You are absolutely right. If there has been a genuine change in the way things are done, the future will bare fruit of it. There will be evidence of God moving and using AFC. I agree that whatever is not of God will fail. So, to that, I say, just wait and see. Keep your eyes and ears open and I’m sure you’ll see some of that fruit come to fruition.
By the way, our service times are still the same. Thursdays at 7pm and Sundays at 10am. Let me know when and if you and Hall decide to attend and I will be on the lookout. Thursdays are Kingdom Building classes, so it’s more of a teaching atmosphere. Sundays are the worship service and we wrap up by noon so that the church that shares their facilities with us may have their service. I will most likely be in the sound booth, so I will most likely see you, unless you end up in the balcony.
The new location is 2904 Macdonald St, Oceanside. Hal and Susanne, from your house, take Bobier all the way into Oceanside, across El Camino Real. You should go through two lights, I believe, after El Camino Real and Macdonald will be right on the right hand side, just after the Westwood Apartments. If you get to AM/PM, you’ve gone about a half mile too far. Turn right at Macdonald and go up the hill, you can’t miss it, it’s on the right hand side.
If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask. If they’re too personal in nature and you don’t have my contact information, let me know and I’ll be happy to give that to you.
Blessings!
Abe
I don’t know that Barry C is who we are being lead to believe they are. I could be wrong and it wouldn’t be the first time I was.
I will also say this, I don’t type like I talk because I shorten my words, use some slang, and don’t really take time to collect my thoughts, like I do when I post on a blog.
Honestly, the way I write is more in tune with how I think but that’s not always the case.
I could give examples of different ways I speak but don’t think I need to.
God Bless you whoever you are. We love you and speak that God’s Word lives in your heart!
Abe
Sorry, I did not mean to mis-spell Hal’s name! I apologize!!
Here is a brief recap of yesterday’s service.
We began with Praise and Worship and it was awesome. I’ll be honest, some people showed up late, we didn’t have everybody there until about 10:15 but it could be due to the new location and we only confirmed that we were moving there a week and half prior.
It was awesome however and by the time it came around to the message, we were fired up and having a good time in the Lord. Ronald Williams ministered and started off by talking about how Moses and Aaron had to die before Joshua could lead the people into the Promised Land. It’s funny because I had just studied that yesterday morning before service. He greeted us and welcomed AFC to being the Joshua generation. He talked about us crossing over (similar to a message shared by Joel Turman for tithes and offerings) into the new season of our church. Repenting and renouncing the old AFC and moving forward into the new AFC.
The altar call was strong and the presence of God was powerful and ministered to many people. The altar was full and we had a good time in the Lord. Just a bit of about the service as I’m sure BeautyFromAshes was looking forward to hearing some of these stories. I’m not sure if you’ve heard about it yet but just wanted to keep my word. By the way, I had the camera and managed to sneak a few pictures towards the end of service. I posted a link below. The link is the my AFC May 2008 photo album which has just a few pics of events that my family was at, Super Sabado and The Skate Challenge, as well as the pictures of our first service. Enjoy them!
http://picasaweb.google.com/abejunior/AFCMay2008
Blessings!
Abe
Abe,
Thank you so much for the update! You were right, I have been hoping for one- but I kinda figured you guys were pretty tired after a busy week.
It sounds like a powerful message and an excellent start in your new home!
Thank you so much for taking pictures! Looks like I missed quite a “party”!
We had some pretty powerful services on this end over the last couple of weeks, so it’s helping to curb my jealousy, but my prayers and thoughts were very much for and with all of you this weekend.
I tend to be a very logical person… to the point that my sister and I have a running joke – she listens to me and explains what it is that I’m feeling, while I listen to her feelings and explain what she’s thinking LOL
So, it kind of makes me laugh when I realize how much all of you folks at AFC mean to me, even though I’ve only met a handful of you, and have not had the chance to really get know most of you – so NOT logical. Yes, God does have a sense of humor 🙂
Thanks again, I look forward to more updates!
I have some work to finish up, so I have to cut this short.
Hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend!
Barry C. Good morning.
I hear the struggle going on inside your spirit. Some may doubt that a leader of a church would come out on a blog and say the things that were said, but some of us also know whats comes out when a person is tormented by a devil.
Barry, maybe you’ve sought deliverance and have even asked other to pray for you but you have not experienced true deliverance to this point. It could be that those praying for you do not truly understand the spirit that they are up against or it could be that the sons of Eli who are still ministering strangely are not able to help you because of their own corrupt spirits. Either way, you must not give up.
If you heart is truly repentant and you have asked God to forgive you yet you still have torment there is an answer. Bring yourself before the virtuous church and allow the maidservants and manservants of the Lord to drive the enemy out. We will travail with you day and night until YOU know that you’ve received help.
Not that it would take all day and night. I believe if you allow those whom God has raised up in genuine character to pray for you they will have the authority to cast out anything corrupt within your soul. Remember when I went to Africa and the enemy sent the witches to cast that spell on me and I was blinded for a time. Remember how God sent the only eye doctor in Liberia to my hotel room to pray for me and I was healed immediately? He was not just an eye doctor, he was a man of God. He would not even accept payment, but we blessed him anyway. Well that man had the intergrity needed to stand against the enemy. We went on to finish the pastor’s conference with over 80 men and women in attendance. God did a work.
Some of prayed but they have not been qualified in the spirit so the devil just laughs. Not to mention that they lay hands on you with strange fire because of their own corruption and compromise.
Barry, come out of the cave and allow the virtuous church to anoint and pray for you. Let us know where to meet you. We will come and we will pray and you will be set free.
To the virtuous church. I ask you humbly to pray and fast and believe God for this deliverance.
Barry, you’ll be okay. I promise. We will see you through.
Abe, I am so impressed with your insight…we definately need you to come out and fulfill your purpose. I have more to say about this Sunday’s service, but will do so when I get the opportunity.
All I know is God truly has His hand upon us.
SG-
I never saw the “Dad” post or his avatar, but I think you called it when you said it was someone mocking the situation.
When the “BarryC” post went up, I had no idea if the person was who they said they were or not, but I did not like the insults thrown to all on the board when so many have worked really hard to truly understand and listen to each other.
Insulting back was not the right answer, I really didn’t want the flame wars to start again, so I responded with Truth (God’s word) and love as we’ve all been taught.
The odd response from this same poster confirms what you said – it sounds like someone trying to mock the situation. It sounds like Abe also feels that they aren’t who they say they are.
No doubt, anyone who would do such a thing is in need of deliverance!
I want you to know that I hear your heart in your responses to them, and saw true concern for the well being of BC (the real one).
Personally, I think we should ignore this poster, not let them derail the conversations that have been taking place on this board.
I realized after the fact that my response might somehow validate this person’s claim to be someone they are not… That was NOT my intention.
If I have added to the confusion, I truly am sorry.
Greetings and Good Evening!
I’m pretty certain that Barry C is not in fact Barry Cook! I’m not too concerned about it and I don’t think we need to be. I’m sure that there’s been some genuine breakthrough and walls have been brought down between those of us on this blog. And, as evidenced by our responses, this breakthrough has been genuine.
What’s Happening, nice to see you posting again. We are looking forward to your side of things that went on this past Sunday during service. I spoke with a couple of people today who are still “flying high” so to speak and even popped in the office. They’re still getting things together but looked to be doing well and moving forward. I can’t wait until this weekend. Prophet Ed Traut will be here and it’s great timing that we moved in and a week later, a prophet comes in, great times are ahead!
BeautyFromAshes, I will do my best to keep you all updated on events here on our side of the world. Just in case you didn’t notice from the captions under the pictures, at the Skate Event last weekend, we had 24 youth accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Looking forward to more events like this!
Blessings!
Abe
Barry, if that is you, we are willing to do what needs to be done. Since the first day I’ve posted on this sight, I’ve been addressing you and you alone. Please do not remove yourself from this dialogue. If you are there, please allow us to continue in the way of deliverance.
Hal and I are praying for you and we both hear you. We are not going to dissappoint you. God will do this. We understand what you are saying and what you are asking for. We will bring what you need. We’ll do it together.
Barry, we are right here. We will not relent. Yes, we’ve got the goods. You’ll see. God has done this already. It is finished.
Love,
Hal and Susanne
First, Thanks for the positive news of North County (I didn’t read all of the posts since my last one, but thanks to anyone with anything positive to say). I am glad to hear about the new salvations.
I pray that the church recovers from all of this junk and reaches the souls that are crying out for salvation in North County. Why focus on the negative? Let’s move onto the positive. Why should we tear our own house down with our hands? We worked so hard to build it!
Anyone remember all the kids affected by Super Sabado? Can you see their faces? What about all of the Christmas Outreaches? Remember all of those families? Think of the positive things. Many people were saved and delivered as a result of the good work that we all did there. Isn’t the mandate still to harvest the lost? Is any one person that special that their personal situation/sin can stop the move of the Body of Christ? Focus people focus! Keep after the call of Christ!
Let the negativity stop here. There were wrong things done. People listened to the voice of the devil and disobeyed the laws of God. Sin is still sin, I’m not discounting that, but let’s learn from what we were all taught and become better people because of the things we have witnessed. I know people are hurt and feel cheated, but let’s get over it and focus on the mission. There are souls out there even reading this blog, so remember who you are and step up to your calling!
I charge you to read the book of Jude tonight. Here is an excerpt:
NLT: 20 But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith, pray in the power of the Holy Spirit, 21 and await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will bring you eternal life. In this way, you will keep yourselves safe in God’s love.
22 And you must show mercy to those whose faith is wavering. 23 Rescue others by snatching them from the flames of judgment. Show mercy to still others, but do so with great caution, hating the sins that contaminate their lives.
24 Now all glory to God, who is able to keep you from falling away and will bring you with great joy into his glorious presence without a single fault. 25 All glory to him who alone is God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord. All glory, majesty, power, and authority are his before all time, and in the present, and beyond all time! Amen.
I love you all. I pray that when we are tempted to be negative, that we think of the souls and remember what we can do for the kingdom of Jesus Christ. It is our individual and collective call to harvest the lost and bring restoration to those who have fallen away. Remember that it is the goodness of God that draws us to repentance. -CM
Good morning CM.
Wow girl, it was so nice talking to you last night. Somebody who actually picked up a phone and was willing to have a real life conversation. It was awesome. I’m so glad to hear that you’re married and serving the Lord with your husband and doing the work of the ministry in prisons. Hal and I will praying for continued Kingdom success in that work. God bless you both.
CM and I had a great conversation about moving forward, but moving forward in the character of God to ensure Kingdom success and stability in this territory. We both agreed, that without it (character) certain cycles will repeat. I recommend the two books mentioned earlier regarding this topic. Both are full of great revelation and understanding of this topic and it’s vital importance in ministry.
We stand fast for deliverance in the house of God.
CM thanks for sharing your testimony and how God restored all that the enemy tried to take from your life. Hal and I are blessed to know that you are well. Praise the Lord.
Character, as defined by theologian-ethicist Stanley Hauerwas: the “qualification or determination of our self-agency, formed by our having certain intentions rather than others.”
William Willimon calls it the: basic moral orientation that gives unity, definition, and direction to our livs by forming our habits and intentions into meaningful and predictable patterns that have been determined by our dominant convictions.
Jesus teaches in Matthew Chapter 5-7: Jesus emphasis over and over that character precedes conduct and morality as a matter of the heart. The key to Christian morality is character.
-Ministerial Ethic, by Joe E. Trull and James E. Carter
The author didn’t break it down into slang and I’m not going to either. This is good information worthy of thought provoking study and prayer. In this case, I’m not going to make it too simplified. It deserves, if necessary, the time needed to use additional studies, dictionaries, etc to bring it home. If the individual does not take the time to “get this” and only wants it spoon fed to them, it won’t take. Invest the time. You’ll get personal results. We all will.
Good Morning,
I was privileged to be among our core group leadership for the Women’s Ministry and it is EXCITING to see the vision and purpose God has put into each one of us. As we continue to move forward and restore the women we are reminded that we have a lot of work to do. We talked about moving forward, transition, repositioning ourselves into a place where women who need support, love and prayer can come and be blessed by God Himself.
After Sunday’s service, it was a good place to start. Many people that I hadn’t seen in a while came to service and were called into their destiny. During our leadership meeting before service I liked the way someone said “People are not coming “back” to AFC, they are moving forward.” Moving forward in God’s Kingdom has nothing to do with AFC and everything to do with the mark on their lives. I think we all understand this.
Praying over the people at the altar after service was like no other. The people who were there had needs, and they came to God with an ear to hear and it was a blessing for me to see them released.
I see the need for our leaders to be transparent. I actually stated this in our Women’s Ministry meeting. So, I encourage anyone who has a question to ask, I will give an honest answer. This transition has not been easy for my husband and I and our family, but we truly have been blessed and we have a testimony of what God has done for our marriage at AFC and what He has done for me. God will not be mocked, our testimonies are real and true to just some of the promises He gave us in His Word. I can’t wait to see more of His promises manifest in our lives.
Lastly, people at AFC are being and have been restored. The men and women of God, and the youth are moving into destiny. I am so humbled to be a part of something that God has His Hand on.
CM I agree with you, we should always look to the positive, and the goodness of God in every circumstance. And I believe that we have learned from the past and we are transitioning forward. The fruit will bear witness. Thank you for your words of light.
Moving on, if anyone would like to attend the Women’s Ministry Roundtable this Friday night, please e-mail me and I will give you directions… sanitywriting@yahoo.com
Our topic of conversation will be about what the women of the house, and what they need to move to their next level as women of God. We will be discussing what the women want to see at AFC to help transition them into the calling on their life. If you are a woman who needs prayer or healing, then I encourage you to meet the new AFC Women’s Ministry Leadership and be a part of something awesome that God is doing in this territory.
Blessings to Everyone today…
Abe – Everyone is still “flying” so to speak. Here is a quick testimony…One of my kids started acting crazy on Sunday after service (he’s usually pretty sensitive to things in the spirit), so instead of disciplining him, I prayed over him. I guess most mothers do this, but I never have, I’ve always prayed for healing and things of that nature, not casting things out of them…it just never occured to me to do it over my kids…but I’ve done it over adults…weird…anyway…within about 30 seconds I felt his countenance change and his attitude lift. God is moving us toward maturity in all aspects of our lives. I realized that we can pray things out of people but our true test is when it is our own children. It feels good to know that God is moving in and through me.
See you Thursday!
Beauty – I have your e-mail to answer….I’ll get to it tonight… 🙂
What’s Happening,
Awesome stuff! I’m glad to hear that God has and continues to move in and through your life. I have had so many moments with my children such as yours. Including those little “ah ha!!” moments.
You’re absolutely right. The need for real and transparent leaders is crucial at this time. It keeps such a balance that wasn’t there before, in so many ways. It allows others to see that they don’t hold such a high opinion of themselves, how they deal with failure or things of life, keeps others aware of just how human everybody is, etc. I would hope that is a continued pursuit of leadership. Not to show God in any kind of weak or incapable manner but to simply show how we as people are so fallible but God is tremendous, awesome and loving enough to work with us through those situations. I’m telling you, it’s a key. I’m not just speaking of the leaders of AFC, although I feel it’s just as applicable.
Blessings!
Abe
good grief – have your personal conversations elsewhere please.
or set up your own blogsite as your platform to preach.
Susanne this is getting a little boring – personally am a little bored of hearing about supposed AFC growth and not hearing of AFC’s leaders’ repentance from adultery.
bottom line is he still needs to deal with this. Fluffing up the ‘news’ from AFC is not taking away from the truth of the matter and the dysfunction still within.
To Preaching Now: I hear what you’re saying. These chats are really about encouraging themselves to move forward. In between you can plainly see the motives in play. (Some mixtures are obvious.) Very little of this dialogue has anything to do with anyone else but whats happening at AFC. But that is okay. They need to focus on their character for an extended season. It will take time to rebuild properly the foudations that will support a genuine move of God. They know that the community is watching and they’re putting their best face forward. I like it. I surely don’t want them to recoil back into a place of no accountability to this community. I’m proud of them for being transparent is some areas. I think they are really trying to move forward, If they get the character thing in place, they’ll probably succeed. I hope so. I’d love to see it.
You’ll be able to tell when maturity comes. They will no longer be ashamed to talk about the past. Right now, they are just trying to live it down. There is nothing wrong with that. Let them be.
Preaching Now,
Personal conversations and agendas are all up and down this blog, not just those who have posted recently. I could very easily set up my own site, as could everybody else here. I’m sure that Scott has thought that this conversation could be taken somewhere else quite a while ago but he’s checking in on it regularly now and hasn’t saw fit to ask any of us to stop, except when things got out of hand. Honestly, the only reason that I have shared the “testimonies” that I have was either because I was asked, or I wanted to show fruit of the work that God is doing in, at and through AFC. I can speak only for myself in saying that nothing I’ve shared has been “fluffing up the ‘news’ from AFC.” Only sharing what I’ve seen for myself, even over the course of the last couple of weeks. I understand and hear you all, as have others, in your plea for BC to come out and address the issues that you all are bringing forth. I have not once tried to deny, stop or even debate those matters. I only respond to what I have seen and know.
And, truth be told, I think that most of the leaders you’re asking repentance from have left AFC. Not all but most. So, I don’t know why you would continue to implore those who are now in leadership to repent on behalf of somebody else’s issues. Although, I’m sure that they have and will repent for anything of the past that they can. If I were to move into a leadership position within AFC, would you require me to repent on their behalf? I really want to know. I’m only asking because I don’t think it is right to hold so many people accountable for something they had no control over. I would be glad to do what was/is necessary for this area and the Kingdom of God, in regards to these issues, to move forward. The leadership in AFC today have openly expressed that they would like to correct the things that were done wrong before and that it starts with them. They have talked about being the things that they always wanted, doing the things they felt should have been done. I have personally heard these things said. That’s why I know there’s been a change in regards to the “heart” of leaders at AFC.
Susanne, I assure you, I have no motives, agenda or anything else in what I say, except to answer questions, such as the ones you asked, and to show the fruit that God is still using AFC, something that has been brought into question, as well. Again, I would tell you all of these things in person. Yes, I agree that character has a huge impact on our lives and continuing to move forward. I think that’s why I’m able to move forward. Because as you have stated, I know where I’m at, my heart’s intent and with all certainty that I’m still following God and His direction in my life. With that being said, you are absolutely right that nothing said here can sway me in any way because I’m standing firmly on the things that I’ve already shared with you. I also stand firm that I can stop posting here and be confident in who I am, what I do and the path that I have chosen to follow Christ. I’m confident in what I know to be truth according to the Word of God. So, I’m not trying to live down the past, simply moving forward, as I always have. Learning and growing as I do but surely continuing to pursue God in every manner that I can. Again, if you have questions, ask. I would be happier answer your questions and being wrong, or confirming what you feel is my agenda, than for anybody to misinterpret or misjudge me.
Love and Blessings!
Abe
So I see an AFC reunion is going on? Great I have few things to say to both sides.
First,
Suzanne I have read a lot of what you have been writing and honestly I don’t know what to think..Why?? I am really going to try to remain in composure here because quiet frankly I am disgusted in the way you treated your very own son, when he choose to rebel from AFC… Did you know you son was sleeping on the streets? did you know he would go days with out food? Did you? Where were you when he need somewhere warm to sleep? or food to eat? YOU rejected him because he did not submit to your will thats not love thats dictatorship…. talk about ungodly, have you repented and asked him for forgiveness for acting this way to him? Where was the love that you are talking about in these blogs? take the plank out of you own eye.
Second,
Current AFC attenders
You want to talk about all this love and grace?? Then why WHY do you dog out ex-members? I my self have attempted to make right with several of you but get shut down every time.
My thing is this G*D will always be G*D regardless no one can pray to change what he has already done
I hate to be so direct but come on lets face it we all make mistakes and we all have failed and none of us live a perfect life.
that being said if G*D can use a donkey he can use AFC. THEN & NOW
Suzzane I really am not trying to bash you its just I was there with Kenny when you would reject him and it did hurt honestly that to me was more hurtful then fall of the old AFC.
Peace nigg’s
Daniel Flores
Daniel,
I checked in on this as I was getting ready to head off to bed and saw your post. First off, if I was one of those that you attempted to make right with and you felt shut down by, let me apologize. We’ve always had a mutual relationship because of our wives but even before then we did hang out often. I don’t think I may have made you feel that way personally but if I have let me know, and again, I sincerely apologize. Also, just a side note, I know there’s a lot less of that these days. Sabrina and I used to have issue with others doing that too and tried our best to avoid being the same way.
My wife is really excited about the pending visit and I don’t know if you’re planning to head this way too but if you are, let me know. I think they’re planning a bonfire or something. Oh, and since I got my 360 fixed, they gave me a Month Free Membership to X-Box Live. I’ll let you know when I use it. I figured out why you never got my reply e-mail, somehow you’re not on my friends list. Maybe I’ll send an Add your way. Just got done playing some GTA 4, just got it tonight. Dude, I remember when we were playing the first one in the apartment. Funny stuff.
Peace and Blessings!
Abe
Dad, Barry C, and now Daniel Flores:
I will let Kenny know of your concerns and if he would like to respond, I will relay his message.
If you were really there, you would KNOW that Kenny chose to follow a family at AFC who were drug users, gang members, drug dealers, and long time criminals. You would also know that we had to file a missing persons report to find Kenny when that same family harboring him in different places so that we could not find Kenny. You would also know that that same family came to our home and lured Kenny to go with them and told him not to tell his parents. You would also know that they used gang like tactics to convince Kenny that we did not love him, when all the while we were combing the streets looking for Kenny. They introduced him to Chrystal Meth and soon Kenny was addicted and involved in criminal activities to pay for this addiction. You would also know that we took groceries, clothes heaters, hygience products and even delivered a house full of brand new furniture to his apartment on one New Years Day.
The people that let Kenny down are the people like you who knew he was running from God in rebellion and did nothing to stop it. You guys laughed and thought it was all funny, but where are you now. Do you go to the prison to visit him? Do you send money to his books? Do you send a care package every quarter? Do you receive his collect phone calls? Do you? No you do not!
It was you and the thug like presence of AFC that stood by and did nothing while Kenny’s life was being destroyed. His family was always there and we are still here for him daily.
Dad, Barry C, Daniel….whenever you’re ready for deliverance, please give us a call. We want you to be set free and hope that you will avail yourself to the healing ministry of Jesus Christ.
In the meantime, it sounds like a game of XBOX is in your future. Have fun kids.
In addition, Dad, Barry C, Daniel Flores….you would also know that the same family showed up at our front door (after we drove to Las Vegas and bailed Kenny out of jail and brought him back home) and threatened us to make Kenny come to the door. This happened on a Tuesday night. You will also recall that the next night, the son of that same family was killed in a high speed chase here is Vista. The police were in pursuit of the vehicle when the driver lost control and “Trouble” was killed.
God protected Kenny through his parents. Kenny is alive and free from addiction today because we did not ever give up on him. Our family is completely restored and WE are going to fulfill our destiny in spite of the plan of the devil. Why, because we have no shame and because we KNOW the truth and the truth has made us free.
One more thing, what is this…”Peace Niggs” More thug life?
That’s funny that you blame Daniel Susanne…do you even know who he is?
I was there too and it sounds like the events you are talking about happened after Daniel and I had moved away. No, we do not go visit Kenny in jail because we do not live in the area. Our relationship with Kenny was cut off and it sounds like you finally stepped in…good for you. But I can say for the time that Kenny came to us for help we were there and unfortunately you weren’t.
And if you knew Daniel at all you would know that he is not a “thug”. He’s an incredible husband and father who works hard and serves god.
And how can you say we laughed at him? And how can you blame us for his actions? Actually, if I remember correctly you were right there with Terri Cook telling Kenny and the rest of the youth that Daniel and I were “evil”…oh yeah, very christlike Susanne! Daniel and I both advised Kenny to make things right. I’m happy that it seems he finally made things right. You can’t blame others for his choices Susanne. I certainly don’t blame anyone (at AFC or elsewhere) for the things I’ve done. I have respect for people like Abe and Sabrina who own up to what they do and move forward in life.
You know, if I was an outsider looking I would more than likely think you are nothing more than a hurt individual who is lashing out at the church. The people from AFC have shown much more fruit in here than you have. And yes, mistakes have been made, wrong has been done but I have yet to go to a church that hasn’t had it’s share of “issues”. But I can tell you that lives can still be changed. Do you not trust God enough to know that he can use anyone or any church?
I don’t know about anyone else but when I hear about what’s going on with AFC I feel more empathy and compassion than anything else…not anger like some of you. There are good people there who have just gotten caught up in a mess and who the heck are we to sit back and judge them? If you know me at all then you know my family went through a lot…probably more than most and I could go on and on about the crazy and weird things that happened but what’s the point? We’ve all moved on and are living better!
Abe and Sabrina, I love you guys…always have and always will regardless of where you go to church. I’m pretty sure that’s how God wants it to be anyway right? I can’t wait you see you guys and everyone else!
Anyway, I had no intention of even jumping on this crazy bandwagon until I saw you attacking my husband like that Susanne. That just seemed completely uncalled for. I doubt you even know who he is and here you are calling him a thug…I think anyone know knows him is probably laughing at that right now!
Wow, SG, my heart does go out to you on that. My brother has been in a similar situation, however he had no church family. He’s been on and off the street with Crystal Meth for over 20 years and is now in jail. I have empathy for these types of circumstances…I’ve spent many days and nights in intercession and prayer. And now that he is facing his second strike, all the people who were his “roll dogs” have all rolled away and do not keep in touch with him. For my family, the effects of his actions have left everyone hurt and wounded, but I do thank God he is in jail and off the street, clean and supported by his family…
To Daniel: As part of the leadership now, I do acknowledge that some people who have left and returned were not treated fairly. I can not tell you why, but I can say that today is a new day and things have changed. Many people have returned to the AFC of now and the leadership has been overwhelmed with the grace and mercy of Christ. I can say that we believe no matter what has happened prior to people being “exiled” our heart is to love everyone, restore, and give the personal ministry we were called to do. I believe that things continuously are changing. We are more driven to love the people of God than ever before. It’s possible that some of the people you have tried connecting with are no longer at AFC. Many leaders have left and there are newly appointed people to carry the vision forward.
Also, I just wanted to mention that my encouragement comes from what God has done for me. But I have been told by some who read these that it is good to hear about the testimonies and fruit that are bearing witness at AFC and in this territory. So, to those people, I continue to encourage and give God the glory.
Blessings to Everyone today.
Jennifer-
If anyone was attacking anyone in here, your husband started it… His avatar is the same as of the individual posting as BarryC, Dad, and now Daniel Flores. He brought up the issue about SG’s son… I dont remember SG writing anything about Daniel Flores until he started the personal attacks on her and also while posting under other names… I know that SG has been addressing BC and BC alone…
There was one time when it was really ugly in here, but we’ve all decided to keep the peace and not allow any more personal attacks… And i think the only reason why she said “thug” is because he finished his post by saying “peace niggs”… Im sorry to rain on your parade, but “niggs” is a slang often use by thugs/gang members… I only know this because my brother and three close cousins were killed three years ago from being a part of a gang… And yes, the word “niggs, niggah, and many other slang words” was common in their vocabulary… They also have friends that were always around the family, that I hear these types of words from day in and day out…
It is indeed good to hear that AFC is making strides to do things differently than in times past, those are indeed steps in the right direction. My questions still remain unanswered regarding Barry Cook and his adulterous affair with Carolyn. Why does BC still choose to lie to this community regarding this subject? Why does he choose to remain in hiding instead of leading his congregation through these difficult times in his church? Why do the AFCers continually choose to ignore these allegations? When someone comes to visit AFC what are they being told if they ask what has been done to bring resolution to the allegationsagainst the pastor?
Remember that as long as Barry Cook is the head of AFC and chooses to remain in his deception towards this community then the entire body of AFC is guilty of the same deception. It does start at the head does it not? You may not be a willing participant in the deception but as long a you don’t require BC to speak the truth then don’t try to convince anybody of how great things are. Deal with the real problem . Deal with Barry Cook.
Kenny was never a pastor of a church responsible for the spiritual welfare of an entire community. Trying to use his indiscretions to take the focus off of AFC’s problem of gross ministerial misconduct in it’s leadership is very weak and weak minded.
Whats happening, please save your sympathy for someone who needs it. My son is a dynamite young man whose has accomplished more in the 16 years that he was “right” than most of the people posting on this blog to date. Even now, he is excelling in all areas. When he is released from prison, he will do even greater works. Remember the spelling of his name. You’ll see it again. Kenny Kniskern. You’ll be able to say you knew him when…………..
The challenge to Barry Cook remains.
SG- it is a shame that some people uses your son to attack you for standing up to BC… shame on them… Stay strong my sister… Dont let the enemy pull you down by these people bringing up Kenny’s past… I know for certain that Kenny will be doing bigger and better things when he gets out… God has a plan for his life… 🙂 God’s blessings on you and your family… 🙂
Abe-
Viia le Atua… I just wanted to say that you and your wife have come a long way… I will reveal myself in due time… But I wanted to say I am so proud of the both of you… Stay strong in the word and my goodness, your babies are so beautiful… And thanks for sharing the pictures from your new building… I think its awesome that the new AFC is moving towards the right direction… I am praying for blessings upon all of you’s…. Grace and peace uso.. take care!
Blessings!
SG, please don’t take my heart going out to you as sympathy. It wasn’t. I have empathy for the situation. Point taken, you don’t need it.
Moving on, tonight’s preaching was dynamic! I am so thankful for AFC being rebuilt and restored. The movement that is being carried is moving rapidly among the flock and it was seen vividly in praise and worship… It is an amazing opportunity to be a part of something that is so great.
A couple weeks ago the kids at Super Sabado went out to San Diego and evangelized. When I saw the video footage of what is becoming of our next generation, it is humbling to see that we are still able to impact our communities with a renewed mind and spirit. The fruit is seeing those kids fearless to preach the gospel and bold enough to make a difference.
I believe that as long as we keep moving forward it won’t matter who is the “head” of AFC. The leadership is dedicated, any change in people won’t take us off our purpose. We still believe that this territory can be free.
gosh lots going on. I guess that all happen after I left. It’s just another example of how control from a cult distorts judgement and makes you say or takes stands you would not normally take.
Daniel hope things are going well for you. can anyone get me in contact with Russell???? I miss talking to him. Jennefer I saw your everyones pics on bobbys myspace. Nice family. Tell Jennifer I said Hello. email me giovanni@silestoneinstallers.com
Daniel if you don’t say things like “Peace Niggs” you might not be called a thug.
Abe. can you stop writting novels on here. I mean come on i don’t have time to read all that, plus what everyone else puts. Just keep it to bullit points.
Hi Gino! Yeah, we have three babies now! Our third was just born in Jan…Ezekiel Noah. Daniel says to hit him up on myspace…Oh, I mean please contact him on myspace…(wouldn’t want anyone to think we’re thugs!)
Just some observations…
The “atmosphere” of this blog has significantly improved over the past week or so. More specifically, I’ve seen…
– More love and genuine concern for our “fellow man”
– An increased desire to understand (not sway or change) one another’s views
– Sharing of the great things God is doing, not just the messes that we (humans) make
– People with differing opinions speaking to each other with love and respect
I’m talking to all of the “regulars” here – those on both sides of any given issue. These changes are good, they are Godly and they do not negate any personal opinions, expectations, past experiences, or views.
To date, there has not been a single poster who has legitimately identified themselves as BC. Many have expressed a desire to hear directly from BC – not anyone speaking on his behalf, and yet, those who are sharing their own first hand experiences at AFC have been called to task (at times) for not answering for BC… huh?
No one can answer for another… that might be something we all agree on 😉
In the last few days, we have seen a return of profanity, personal attacks, and unnecessary digs that have added nothing and attempted to rob much.
I, for one, am unwilling to accept that!
Personally, I don’t see conflict as a bad word. Conflict can bring resolution, positive change, fresh perspective, new solutions… It can also bring dissention, anger, wounds, attacks, and shut down positive outcome. I know which one I want!
We all want restoration, God’s will, to see hearts turned toward God, and his work being done.
It’s no secret that there are many opinions on how that should/might/could/will happen, that’s OK. Maybe He’ll suprise every last one of us – I can’t wait to see!
I skipped to the last chapter – in the end God wins 😀 Since we already know how the story ends, let’s go back to living (blogging?) like we believe it!
Greetings All!
Tonight was an awesome service! In order to keep my posts a little shorter, since I guess that I’ve proven I can be long-winded, 😉 I will simply say that I agree with everything that What’s Happening stated earlier. Only to add that the person who ministered tonight brought forth a great teaching and exhortation. A gift that has always been there, even used before, and personally, I was glad to see him walking in the gift and anointing that God has given him. I also agree that regardless of who is the “head” of AFC we will keep moving forward because God desires it to be so. Just pray for us that things continue to move forward according to God’s will for AFC, we do love the Kingdom of God and helping to build and establish it here on earth. Again, I can’t speak for BC. I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything except that God is truely alive and well at AFC and that is all.
Gino, I didn’t mean to write novels, only to share and try to be sure that there is no question about what I am trying to communicate. I’m glad to hear that you and the family are doing well. Even though we didn’t build too much of a relationship, I always respected your leadership skills and enjoyed the times that I labored, served and fellowshiped with you. I specifically remember a night that you prophesied over everything that moved in the classroom, I believe the last person was DB (sorry, don’t know her last name now.). Things like that remain in people’s spirit, and even though I was only there to witness it, it’s something I will always remember. We miss you guys! Nice to see the pictures of the family too. Please keep us updated as to how things are going with you all. I think that I heard you all are in San Antonio, now, is that right? I know this post has already gotten long and I’ll try to wrap up quickly. I will do my best in the future to shorten them up for you.
Okay!, I think I know who you might be. I’ll just wait until you’re ready to let me know. I really do appreciate your words. I know we don’t have it all together but we do our best. The kids are beautiful and smart and very blessed! They love God and they love people. We were blessed with such a wonderful inheritance and are doing are best to raise them to be great children of God. Let me know when you’re ready to contact me and I’ll be happy to give you are information. But, you may already have it. 😉
Blessings!
Abe
One other quick note, another reason that I’m posting here is to see, to the best of my ability and what I can contribute, healing and restoration come to both sides of the story. Like I’ve said, I’ve heard of some of the things people have gone through before and after leaving AFC and I can’t say that I agree with all of it. But, also, as I’ve said before there is a new day dawning at AFC. I could tell you stories of how we’ve been hurt by former AFC members and people who never went to AFC. But, again, in the hope of continuing to move forward, I know that we can move the Kingdom of God forward together! United as one body of believers, serving God with all of our heart!
God Bless You All!
No one is asking someone else to speak on behalf of BC. However, those that are calling themselves leaders at AFC are being challenged as to their complicity in the ongoing cover up and deception to the North County Community. As long as BC is the official head of AFC, these challenges remain. In addition, the challenge to the “character” of AFC also remains. We both know that challenge is motivating AFC to publicily give an account for their actions. These public dialogues continue to expose the imaturity of the leadership of AFC. If you’re going to continue to come out publicly and brag about events, don’t get mad we challenge the obvious mixtures in your motives including the biases. Beleive me, they are there for all to see. And AFC will be judged by those things when people are making up their mind.
There are people posing as AFC leadership today who know they are outright lying about certain things. But because they are saying what some want to hear, their overseers are ignoring some very important indiscrepancies in this persons character. But that doesn’t mean everyone is ignoring them. You see we know more than what we post. The truth, all of it, will not be hidden to this community. The Father will not allow us to be deceived by imposters.
So far, we have not heard the voice of the Shepherd coming from AFC. Only mixtures.
However, we are still listening.
To Whats Happening: That was not your heart going out to me and YOU and I both know what that really was…….and like I said, I don’t need that kind of heart. Save it and save your excuses. Please keep praying for your own children and don’t worry about things you don’t know anything about. If that is too direct, get over it. Keep your focus on why you are here. Me and my family are not your concern or your motivation. We are a successful family ….way before AFC….. and we will continue in that success despite the horrible influence of AFC. Our success and identity has not and never will be tied to AFC. Nonetheless, we will not allow other wonderful families to be hurt by the influence of AFC. AFC will grow up or move out. There are your options. Focus on that.
Okay And……….thank you for the genuine heartfelt concern. I appreciate it.
SG, let me make myself perfectly clear. I don’t need your approval to affirm my motivations. I also don’t need your acceptance to prove anything about being a leader at AFC. Your “firmness, directness” or whatever you want to call it, really has no affect on my life. And I don’t really “know” what you think my intention was by empathizing with your situation. It really doesn’t bother me that you can’t see the honesty and purity in my communication. One persons opinion will not break my character. There are plenty of people who actually do know me, and would not have the same opinion as you do.
But I rest assured that the only opinion that actually matters to me is that of Christ.
Blessing to Everyone this morning.
Susanne,
I don’t think that What’s Happening was trying to show sympathy. I think she very clearly was empathizing with you that she has had similar situations in her family, as well. I know how it may appear. That if it appeared that somebody had to sympathize with you, then somehow there’s a fault or weakness. Or maybe that she was trying to bring anything against you and Kenny. Again, I don’t think she was doing that in any way. Okay! And even made comments. What’s Happening gave a personal example of how and why she was empathizing with you, which again is much different than sympathizing. Also, if any of your comments in your post at 8:30am are directed towards me in any way, please let me know. If so, I would like to be sure clear the air because none of that is going on on my part. I already stated the reasons why I post, reply or respond to things said here and is the truth.
Also, I would like to say that I know Kenny is going to do some great and mighty things for God. I got the priviledge of seeing the man of God at a younger age doing things that some adults couldn’t and can’t do. I can’t wait to see what God has in store for him in his future because I know they’re going to be great and mighty things. Please, give him our love and let him know that if he would like it, we would like to stay in touch with him, as well. As well as Victor. Of course, this is if they would be willing to do so.
What’s Happening, I just wanted to let you know that Sabrina is excited about tonight. She has stepped up in so many ways recently and I’m glad that she has strong women of God to lean on, pull from and do Kingdom business with such as yourself. She was also glad to hear from you the other day, if even for a couple of minutes. We are often so busy at church it’s hard to catch up, especially with this move. But, we’ll iron out all the wrinkles very soon.
Blessings to all and praying for a wonderful and powerful weekend for everyone!
Abe
If anyone is considering doing any investments with OceanBreeze Investment Club founded by Larry and Annette Nelson, don’t do it! I have invested over $10,000 with them and have gotten nothing in return. It has been a nightmare. I know of at least 10 other people that have invested most of their savings with them and have not received anything back. They ask you to pay processing fees of $1200 for each investment property you get into and then when the investment turns out to be bad, they don’t want to refund any of your money. It’s all a scam!! Just wanted to send out a warning. I know they are attending New Venture Church now and are propbably inviting a bunch of their members to their meetings.
ditto – didn’t put in as much but it’s been 2+ years since we were supposed to have had our money doubled and still haven’t seen a dime back, even with supposed promises of lawyer involvement by Ocean Breeze. it was a straight up scam and months go by without updates as to the legitimate PROGRESS being made, which there obviously hasn’t been. next level is us hiring our own lawyer to handle.
I agree with you Abe…I know my postings have been a direct correlation to what people have specifically asked me for. I see no need to prove anything to anyone but God. Although, I have started another blog to give to those who have asked for the good reports and to see the fruit of AFC, so perhaps I will just continue there, then for some people, it won’t seem like there is a need to prove character.
Gotta run, the Women’s Ministry Fellowship awaits…I will post on the results. Though, I will do so in another forum. For those who really are genuinely interested in the success of AFC and would like to continue reading about the praise reports and transitions, you can e-mail me sanitywriting@yahoo.com and I will be more than happy to send you the link.
Praise God, always…
Hey Whats Happening, If it doesn’t bother you than why do you keep up with the excuses? Me thinkest thou dost protest to much…….
Hi Abe, the point is this, the truth is going to come out. I hope those that know that they are flat out lying about themselves will go ahead and speak up now. It will be a shame to have to deal with it from the other side. But just like BC, I expect his followers to deny, deny, deny, and then once faced with the truth, deny some more. It is the character of BC and AFC to do just that. These people know who they are…..
Like I have already said and have always said about Kenny, he is a terrific person who will continue to have success. He has admitted his wrong doing and he is dealing with the consequences like a man. He is not running from anything and doesn’t need anyone to defend or excuse his actions. He will stand on his own merit. Sure he explained the negative influence of AFC and its impact on him spiritually, but he never blamed anyone else. He is a real man. He has nothing to outlive or outrun. He is free and of good conscious.
Okay, off on my 2 wheels to get some dinner. We’ll be at Davinas if you care to join us.
Have fun kids.
Susanne,
I completely agree with you about Kenny. Don’t know all the details and honestly, it’s none of my business. I just know that I saw the beginning of hard times for him and I am glad that he’s doing well. As we know it is a process and I’m truely happy for him. Again, please convey our love to him and let him know we would love to stay in touch, if he’s willing, as well.
I hear your point but wasn’t sure whether they were directed towards me specifically. That’s all I was asking. I think you have a good understanding of my heart and see that I am being genuine. Right or wrong, I’m being honest, truthful and genuine. I know for a fact, the leaders of AFC have admitted that there has been wrongdoing in the past and are working towards restoration in those areas. Perhaps soon, I can have another person’s testimony about how they have been reconnected and restored because there have been a few members that have come back.
I do have a suggestion for another great mexican restaurant in O’side some of you may want to try sometime. Marieta’s on the corner of Vandegrift and North River Road. Great food!
Have a wonderful evening and God Bless!!
Abe
Okay I have a free min sorry to take so long to write back I have been working alot…Something Suzzane knows nothing about since we can all see she is on here from the am to the pm since 2007.
Aside from that Suzzane you should read the bible start with the book of David same situation that went on in AFC…. Also a Thug wow cool thanks really I mean that.
Jezebel Guinn
If you just helped out your son he would not have had to sell drugs so quit blaming others for your mistake. Also where do you all even go to church? TBN I mean look at the stuff you have been writing about being the deliverers of NC hahaha yeah right no thanks.
Also I long for the day I read this from Jezabel Guinn
“Okay, off on my 2 wheels to find a job. wish me luck.
Have Fun Old Hag
Daniel, really, is that the best you can do? Goodnight kids.
Excuses….now that is a touch of comedy…
Daniel- Man fool, why you talkin like you all goody goody….Yo butt was sellin some dope back in the days….and yo wife was sleepin around… she was good… she was HELLA good…. datz somethin you need to put in check before you come out hea and blast some peeps out. So, SHUT UP and sit yo lame butt down… And stop talkin to yoself- you just making yoself look bad…
I was once a part of AFC… i loved that church becoz they accepted me… or maybe it was just the thuggish lifestyle that drew me to AFC…there were so many that were like me… straight from da streets and just trying to find the light….Anyway, after awhile- had to bounce outta there coz i started seeing some crazy $heeznit….aint gonna go into detail coz itz not worth it–but im straight… im coo… For the record- Barry Cook was always coo wit me… And Carolyn was one fine piece of…… piece of………. ummmm…. Creation (lets keep it clean)… 🙂 nothin but love for you CR…nothin but love.
Man- yall got some issues… Some serious issues… Claiming Christianity and yet fight like cats and dogs up in here… So this be it for me… first and last post… just wanna give a shout out to fam bam in the deep Valley- yall know whoz you are….Dont act like you dont know coz this is all youz be talking bout….lol… Nothing but love Family… Big Junz…
One last shout out-
Abe-man uso, good to see that u doin good stuff…… at least one of us is headin the right direction…lol…. Alofa Le Atua e faamanuia ia oe male aiga… Fai faalelei tamaiti… you coo peepz… nothin but love and mad respect for you uso… stay up and keep prayin for your uso’s out in the deep valley…
alofa atu- Big Junz
Hi Abe, I liked that place too. They had great mole. The only thing is that somebody I know that worked for an exterminator company told me that they were infested (at that time not sure about now) with rats. So I quit going for awhile. I usually don’t eat where a infestation of vermon is reported by the people called to exterminate the pests.
But who knows, it could all be cleared up by now. The place is so close to the open fields of Camp P. that I’m sure it is a constant battle to keep the place free of critters. As long as they keep their contract with the exterminator, I’m sure they’ll keep the population down.
Anyway, like I said, they had great mole.
Hi Daniel
Is that how you helped Kenny? Did you give him dope? So you were a part of the influence of AFC that corrupted innocent youths and then told them their families didn’t love them in order to draw them to yourself so you could continue in your criminal enterprise. Wow, dude! BTW, thanks for your help.
If you want to contact me directly, here is the number 760.622.9976. I’ll be happy to take that call anytime.
This post is for all those truly called pastors who are reading this blog throughout the nation and even internationally.
Please pray and ask God about whether or not He would have you come to North County, San Diego, and do Kingdom work. There is a beautiful 24,000 square foot facility up for sale right now. And more than that, there are hundred of mature, stable, and god-fearing people out here who would support a genuine move of God. On behalf of those people and on behalf of those who need/want to be fathered, I pull upon your calling right now in the name of Jesus Christ. I know you recognize the seriousness of this situation and even the desperate need for Godly leadership to come to this land. The sheep have been scattered due to wolfsters in the pulpit who continue to abuse the people of God. Wherever you are, from the North, the South, the East and the West, please pray and ask God if would SEND you to bring Kingdom to our community. We will support you and we are ready for service.
Abe, honest Abe, it is time for you to be truthful about some things right now before you ever take a leadership position at AFC. Even though you may have misled this blog initially about some things, you need to make that right. Don’t follow the example of those in charge who lied initially and then continued lying to cover up more lies. There are some PEOPLE out there who are waiting to see if you will come forward on your own and back up your claims of pure agendas and motivations. I hope you will take the responsibility in yourself to do the right thing. They are waiting to see if you have really changed before they speak out. They are giving you the opportunity to be a real man of God. Why, because they love you.
I’m concerned because of the way you were fathered that you will ignore your duty here and continue in a wrong spirit. Abe, do yourself a favor, and come clean.
My observations are just that. You can totally disregard them if you want and come on here and say you have no idea what I’m talking about. Please think before you say anything more, please Abe, please.
Just to be clear, Abe, I do believe that you mean well. I really do. I just don’t want you to get slammed by the enemy. You have to take the power away from him.
People love you and they do not want to see you get hit hard. Please protect yourself and your family and do not walk in places you know you are not prepared to walk in. Remember, we are ensnared by the words of our mouth. If we have the character to back up those words, we are spared, but when we do not, we are in jeopardy.
My brother, I hope to God you hear my heart. I am truly concerned for you personally as well as for those who might follow.
I am not sure what it is you are talking about but I assure you that Abe has plenty character to back up the words he says. And he has been nothing but nice and understand to you even when you attacked our family. He showed the love of Christ and forgave you for your unfounded and missplaced alligations. I can say with 100% certainty that he is genuine in everything that he says and that is only goal is to see the kindgom of God advanced and the people of God whole!
I think the majority on this blog realize that Abe is only concerned with helping advance the kingdom of God and having the people of God restored. Abes heart in this matter is pure and has no hidden agendas or motives. So any attempt by you or anyone else to try and taint that is rediculous.
And yes we shared a few of the things God has brought us from in hopes that it would help others find healing and restoration amoungst there pain. But for you to seemingly go looking for dirt only to discredit us seems a little overboard. God is truely merciful and gracious who forgives us every time we fall. And we are not too proud to say that we stumble all the time and God in his infamous grace is always there for us!
So go ahead Suzanne, bring it! Cuz we know who our God is and where he brought us from. And we know that He is continueing to do a work in us, everyday. And as long as we are quick to repent when we fall and we yield ourself to his Holy Spirt, He will always be there to bring us through.
And one of the many things I love about God so much is that when we repent, He forgets all about it. He throws it as far as the east is from the west! Thank you Jesus for your grace and mercy!!!! I guess it just cant be that easy when your dealing with humans.
Whats happening- I had a blast last night! It was so great to get together with the women of God and just fellowship and get to know one another. I am so excited to build new realataionships amoungst the women of AFC and see God do a might work in us!!
Blessing to All,
Sabrina
Abe, we love you. Remember, He’ll always give us a way of escape through the blood of Jesus.
God bless you and yours.
Dearest Sabrina,
Please realize that I am only exhorting Abe to not give place to the enemy as some have done before him. I have not brought any accusations against you at all. Maybe you should slow down, take a breath, and reread my comments from a place of clarity. Remove yourself personally from the dialogue and think about what is being said. If there is anything that needs to be cleared up, it should be before any formal leadership position has taking place. If Abe takes a public position, his character may be challenged by some. If everything is laid out in the open, than there is no reason to be worried.
Hal and I do not see Abe as anything more than what he has described about himself. Other people may have a different opinion. We only want you guys to be careful because we are hoping for your continued success as a family and as ministers of the gospel.
You are free to disregard my advise if you want. If the shoe doesn’t fit, then move forward in your liberty. That is all.
Sabrina, really you don’t need to keep playing the victim role. We are for you not against you. Be at rest.
Junior I don’t know who you are but my husband never sold drugs…he and I can proudly say that we never touched a drug a day in our lives!
And me…sleeping around! You must be joking. You obviously don’t know us. When I was talking about mistakes I made I was referring to being religious and judgemental like so many on this board…like you!
Good bye!
Oh and Susanne…looks like Daniel touched a nerve.
He has genuine concern for Kenny and all he ever talked about was his own experience with him. As far we we knew Kenny was not doing drugs. He had a good job and was doing the best he could to try and take care of himself at such a young age. Daniel understood where he was coming from and I think that’s why he wanted to help. Now Christina may have been another story. I’m not sure what she was into but I can assure you we didn’t encourage any of it by our lifestyle or example.
But if it helps you to sleep at night to blame us or afc for your family problems then okay.
Abe, in a previous comment you said that if you met with us in person, you could look us in the eye. We would like to take you up on that remark. We cordially invite you and Sabrina to sit down with us and have a face to face conversation. The four of us can meet in a public place of your choice. Please let us know when. The number is 760.622.9976.
Jennifer, you brag about yourselves, but others that know you do not hold you in the same light. Basically your words are just that. They have no weight or credibility in this situation. Just banter from the peanut gallery. But thanks for your contribution. It obviously had a great impact. Keep up the great work.
Susanne, the feeling is mutual.
Suzzane \Jezabel Guinn is it true that BOTH your sons are from different dads AND the man your with now is not even the father of either of them??? WOW no wonder your sons were attracted to the loose girls in the church. GREAT EXAMPLE! Did you use and sell drugs too?
Also FYI I’m left way before Jezabel Guinn in fact I influenced Kenny to leave AFC because SG or Jezebel Guinn was so busy playing cult member….
Sorry but the old AFC was a cult BUT lessons from G*D were still learned and this new AFC who knows it can be a brand knew ball game I can’t says its not my place.
And
Big Junz why don’t you give me your real name? not much of a man are you?
I am going to San D in June I would love to meet up with you I have something for your its a meat flute
Daniel, Kenny’s dad died when he was two years old. I was 19 years old and was NOT serving God in anyway at that time. After I got saved, at 21 I married Victor’s father and we were married from 1986-1994 until his dad decided that he wanted options that were outside the social boundaries of Christian fellowship and marriage.
Hal and I have been married for almost 13 years in August. Wehave a phenominal marriage and as Victor and Kenny will both tell anyone, Hal is their father.
Daniel, you’re reaching………………
Susanne,
I’m glad that you believe that I mean well, please continue to believe that because it’s true. To be honest though, I don’t need you to believe me. As you have stated, I am confident in everything that I have said and hold nothing against anybody whether they believe me or not. Again, I assure you that I have no mixed emotions or agendas. I have very clearly stated why I post and will leave it at that. Susanne, I’m not afraid of what the enemy might do to slam me or come against me and my family. I expect it. I’m even very familiar with some his tactics seeing as he’s attacked us many times and continues to attack us. He is a “wiley” one. However, our lives are held in the hand of our Creator, the greatest lover of our soul. In Him I have no fear what may come against us and in Him I have the fullest confidence of our salvation and relationship with our Heavenly Father.
You know, I’m very happy that there are people out there that care about me. I appreciate all the prayers of people who love us, support us and encourage us. However, I’m not trying to walk in any place that I’m not prepared to walk in. I know that my times are in His hands and in so being will remind you that I was the one asked to make an account of the accusations that were placed against us and our testimony of our past. You see, it’s been so funny because that is where the enemy would reside, in the past. He tries to hold our past sins against us. He tries to hold our mistakes, our errors, our faults against us. He even tries to hold present mistakes and faults against us but what he always seems to forget and anybody with any real “understanding” knows that he’s fighting a losing battle. God doesn’t hold these things against us because He already knows the issues of our hearts. I could go on and on about this.
I’ll end this point by saying, I’ve had a couple of people speak into my life prophetically, recently, one who was not associated with AFC and is a recognized prophet. One point that both of them covered was that people try to hold us in our past and how they viewed us before and that God has already released us from that and has called us to move forward in our destiny. This was something that I had already known for some time but I believe that God was saying this to re-inforce my wife’s call and destiny. Maybe God used you calling us out as a way to show others that we have truely moved beyond those situations and accusations. We’ve grown so much even in the past few months and all of it is to the Glory and Honor of God and not by our own works but by the Grace and Love of God. I was sure that posting here may cause attacks to come, spiritually and naturally. But here I am. A living testimony of how awesome God is! Quite honored that He would use us despite all of it. You talked about character but my character would not cause me to boast or say anything about how great I am and how wonderful my family is, I don’t believe I need to do that. I do believe that I need to stand for righteousness and not let the integrity of God be compromised. This is why I always and continually give God honor for raising us up despite how many times we have or may fall. This was why I stood for the integrity of my family when that was being compromised. Something that you have once again brought into question. You chose your words wisely but I assure you that despite how many times the enemy may come against us, we will continue to be quick to repent, to give God all honor and all of our hearts, serve Him in all humility, and see the Kingdom of God continue to be established.
I say this to anybody that has questions. Call me. I’m also a phone call away. I have nothing to hide and assure you that whether or not you agree with us in what we do or say, we will continue to honor you, love you, encourage you and we will not judge you. We will hold nothing against you, past or present. We seek to see the Christ in everybody. We seek to see the Kingdom of God established. I’m not trying to walk in any place of leadership. I’m not looking to be “promoted” into leadership at AFC or anywhere else. I’m just seeking to be me. The person God has called me and my family to be. And in that, the first and foremost calling we have on our lives is to seek God and follow Him. Love Him and Worship Him for who He is. Adore Him with honor and respect and reverance. Stand against the enemy and pronounce that Jesus has died for each of us and he has no authority over our lives. I really can go on but I don’t want to try to preach, just stand for righteousness.
Gino, if you’re reading this, I apologize that it was long-winded. Please accept my sincerest apologies but I felt I had to state some of my perspectives with some clarity. It’s for you that I have shortened this a bit.
Again, I say to anybody, feel free to call me. I’m just a phone call away. I have nothing to hide. No hidden agendas. No mixed emotions or motives. I will post my number at the bottom of this post. I know that we have made mistakes in the past. We will probaly make some more. But we are so honored to be able to stand before you and pronounce that we are continuing to move forward in our relationship with God. Anybody who knows me knows that I wear my heart on my sleeve. Even though it’s something that shouldn’t have been done here, I’ve done it. But, anybody who knows me, really knows me, knows that’s how I am. Yes, sometimes doing so hurts. But, I can’t be anything else but what God has designed me to be.
Junior aka “Big Junz”, I believe that I know who you are. I have your number. I’ll call you. I miss our days together. We were planning to do so many great things together. I hurt when I stopped seeing you around. I should have called you, fought for you, prayed for you more. I should have done more and could have done more. I apologize. Forgive me my brother! My heart cries for you now. You know me and you know some of the struggles I have faced. Some that a lot of others don’t. You know that everything I say is true and I appreciate your words. I really do. They touched my heart and my spirit and I will continue to pray for you! I do pray for the valley. There’s another brother of ours from the “hood” that is doing very well. He’s even been reaching out to that community and you’ll be glad to know he’s doing well.
We love each and everyone of you! Those who read this and don’t post, some who do. Some who may have thoughts against us, or may be worried for us. We really do.
Bri, your words are too kind. I appreciate your support and I believe that God has a great destiny for us! Let us continue to seek God daily that His Kingdom continue to grow and expand in the earth. Thank you for standing beside me. Despite everything of our past, we are further than a lot of people expected us to be.
Again I say, anybody is welcomed to call us. (760)300-5577. Many people already have this number but there it is for those that don’t and would like to talk. Feel free. Let us all stand together to see that the devil is stopped, his works destroyed, his agents of darkness rebelled and the Kingdom of God advanced. Together, united, walking in love and the power of God is how the enemy fears us and that is why he has tried to bring so much division. Today we say that it shall not be that way anymore!! We do not accept it! His defeat has already been done, our victory has already been obtained! Let us walk in it and cause him to flee Oceanside, North County, San Diego Region and beyond! Let’s cause him to dread the day he came against us!
Blessings to all today!
Abe
Hal just called me and reminded me of a situation that occurred on the “C” yard at Ironwood State Prison.
We had been conducting services on that yard for several months and the word started to get out that God was moving. Several men wanted to attend the services who were a part of a certain gang known as the Mexican Mafia. In prison, if you are in a gang and you want to go to church the shot callers will let you as long as you live by the word. They also expect that those preaching the word have character. If they decide that you are a phony, they will not allow their members to take part in your service. Our outreach ministries in the prison required inmates of all races, affiliations, etc. to work together without conflict. Even in the most tense situations, we never in five years experienced a fight or “battle” in our group. Why? Because we were found to have had character by those who really ran the yard. Sure the staff was for us, but our favor went beyond the staff.
Back to the incident Hal was referring to. We were greeting men as they were arriving to Chapel one morning when a large group of Mexican Mafia came toward the chapel. They were walking in a closed circle. When they got to where the yard met the asphalt the circle opened up. The leader emerged from the circle and came to the front of the group. He looked at us in the eye and said, “You have our respects.” We said, “And you have ours.” The circle closed up around the leader and they went back in the direction from which they came.
Even though we were pulling members out of the gang, the leaders allowed it. Why? Because these men were showing signs of true character and were released to serve God without retaliation.
If you want an open heaven Church, you’ve got to earn it. Talk is cheap.
Anyway, wannabees don’t know anything about real respect. They just assume people will fear them and when they find out that some people DON’T, all they do is TALK……
HMMMMMMMMMMMM
Suzanne,
I am in no way trying to play the victum role, I am so over that! I am just tired of the box that everyone seems to try and put my family in becuase of our rough start! Thats all! I am sick of people who are unable to get over things that took place years ago. Because I once was a person who would hold offense and stay mad, but in the end all that offense does is keep you bitter and hurt you. So I am learning to see where it is that people are coming from and evaluate the source of the words before taking any of it personally.
Jennifer, dont sweat it girly. Anyone who knows you at all knows your am amazing woman! From personal experiance you are an amazing friends, always there to encourage and give support. Your a incredible wife and a loving and devoted mother. So like you told me before, anyone who knows you wont pay any attention to these false words being spoken about you. Actually its quite funny for someone to think that about you, cuz your like the total opposite!
Blessings!
Sabrina
Abe, no one is holding your past against you. If it is under the blood, it is under the blood. Again, no one brought any accusation against you…only challenged you to walk worthy of the vocation wherein you have been called. If everything is under the blood, there is no need to act guilty or to respond defensively. However, IF there were any lies spoken on this recent blog, please come clean before you step into spiritual relms of authority that you may or may not be qualified for.
I’m confident, that you will get the chance to walk out your declarations.
We love and bless you and yours continually day and night.
Susanne,
We would like to take up your offer to meet. We would have to arrange for childcare. Suggestions as to places to eat? I know the the mall area is pretty central to where both of us live.
I also hear and will believe that you are not holding past sins against us. I assure you that everything I have posted here is true. As a couple of people have come out and posted on this blog that they are proud of where we come from and our growth, I hope those to be witnesses to you that what I’m saying is true. I’m not acting guilty. Maybe the way you stated things were not clear and I misunderstood. Whatever the case may be, I understand. Also, I know my calling and I’m not saying whether or not I’m ready for it, totally. But, we aren’t always ready for the next step God has for us and that’s why we grow. Again, my position is what I stated, just going to be who God designed me to be and be obedient to His voice. Why? Because it’s the only one that really matters in my life. There are other important and influential voices in my life but the most regarded voice I listen to is my Father.
Also, Jennifer, I agree with Sabrina. I’m sure that the post was probably based on outside perspectives, which we already know, can be minconstrued or not accurate. I’m not excusing his post but just stating that we know you, as well. We all walk a different walk, and even though I don’t necessarily agree with how things are handled, it doesn’t cause me to look at anybody any differently either. I respect that God is in control and His will will be done, regardless of how things come about.
We have to run! I’ll check back in tonight when we return.
Blessings!
Abe
Sabrina,
That’s why Daniel and I kinda think this is funny. I don’t think Susanne realizes he is just egging her on.
And you are so right about holding offense. Have seen many lives ruined over it.
Sabrina I love you! Yeah, that’s why I say that dude must not even know me.
And Abe, thanks! I really can’t believe anyone would question your character. As long as I’ve known you you have always been honest and genuine.
lmao@Big Junz.. Bro- what in the world are you doing posting in here… and why you have to put Daniel and Jennifer out like that… You aint right…lol… Im calling you right now…
Thanks Abe, I’m calling you now.
Jennifer, your husband is doing more than egging people on…he is showing his true nature and character.
I respond because I have nothing to hide. He isn’t egging anyone on….he is merely displaying the character of someone who has not been properly fathered in the spirit. This DNA is present in a lot of AFC people….no spiritual depth…….and because of that all you CAN do is lash out with superficial nonsence.
Even the devil ignores you…..you just don’t have the goods.
Jus one last post …lol.. i promise….
Daniel-
uce- i dont think u know who you talkin to… better recognize uce… i would love the opportunity to see you and that wifey of yours… yeah peoples dont be knowin what yo wifey is about…. stop frontin. and a meat flute?!? man, yo wife got my meat be4 she did yours… So STEP… or juss enjoy my left overs… lmao… you so LAME uce……. stupid, foolish and LAME…. And by da way, my name is JUNIOR… you better check yo self… If you wanna see me, come to my hood… we’ll see how tough you really are….
jenn- baby girl, dont be mad coz i had YOU… oh yeah!! … stop rampagin up in hea like yall run the show… besides, you werent that good in BED… so, sit yo butt down… Daniel got no senses for speakin out of his butt up in hea and you aint doin any better… so Shut up and slow your roll….
SG- you crazy as hell but i got a lot respect for YOU… coz you standin up foe Kenny… I use to call him Kenny G… That kid was hella cool… your son is coo kid…
Okay And- sis, stop blowin up mah phone… i promise this is mah last post. much luv… sis, kakou fekaui i LA kaeao…
Nothin but love,
Junior aka “Big Junz”
lol…now I’ve heard it all.
Bro Junz…Jesus loves you man. No greater love there is than when a man lays down his life for another. Always remember Junz, Jesus died for you and your brothers and for me too. Please let me pray for you…….
Father, I lift my brother Junior up before your throne. I ask that you would dispatch ministering angels to set a guarrison about him and his loved ones. I declare that no weapon forged against him will prosper and that every tongue that would rise up against him will be brought low. Father I pray that every ungodly allegiance be broken off of his life and that he be released to fulfill his God -given destiny and purpose in the earth. My warrior friend, in the name of the Almighty Captain of Hosts, be free in Jesus name. Humbly prayed in the service of the Lord from His maidservant in Jesus’ name.
Grace and peace.
Bro Junz,
Can you please speak or type in english. I have seen 5 year olds write better. I’m sure you are all talk. big bark and no bite.
Hi All!
Just letting you know our day was very busy but just wanted to check in. We had another awesome meeting at church, too. For now, I’ll only say that there were some great confirmations and God is definitely speaking to AFC during this transition.
Okay! And-, I’m really confident I know who you are now, too. I believe I was right. To confirm, I remember that while we were “neighbors”, you would take good walks with my wife. That should be vague enough for nobody else here to know what I’m saying. If you’re who I think you are, then I’m sure you’ll know what I’m talking about.
Jennifer, Daniel, Junior, I love all of you! I hope you guys can find a peaceful solution to your dispute. It hurts to see you guys going at it like this. Jennifer, thanks for those words. I appreciate it, I really do.
But to all, God bless you and the rest of your weekend!
Abe
Jezabel Guinn how do you know the devil ignores me did he tell you during your daily conversations with him??
Also Junz hahaha take Ginos advice and get hooked on phonics
Gino hit me up on myspace
Gino-
Is the same gino I know? Your wife’s name starts with “C”….. Besides, dont tell me to speak and write in english and yet you dont know how to complete your sentences or even put the correct punctuation marks at the end of your sentences… If I remember correctly, your wife was one of the sweetest people I met at AFC. She actually mentioned to me that you had a little problem in bed… Let me see, that you were short somewhere…. hahahahaha……
Besides, mind your own business it was an A and B conversation and you werent even part of it… So, see your way out… Besides, if you really want to find out if we bite out here in HOOD…. Take a little tour of the deep valley and see if I am all talk… If not, then shut up and continue on to Myspace with Daniel… Have fun kids…
By the way, was that english enough for you?
PEACE
Is this Junior person Victor? I don’t think anyone will ever know who this Junior kid is because he is too much of a BLANK to state his full correct name.
Like Gino said JANZ can talk but can’t bite.
Also if it was an A and B conversation why did you but in originally?
AND Calling your Mom Crazy WOW thats funny even her son thinks so.
I think I will let Jonior aka BIG JUNZ speak for himself on this one. I don’t see him as being too afraid of you Daniel,
Abe- how are you brother? I dont think we were ever neighbors… But I wouldnt mind having you guys as my neighbors, because I have some crazy neighbors right now…lol… but they are good people though… I knew you guys from AFC… At that time, I dont think you guys were as active as you are now…. Which I personally think, its a beautiful thing…
Daniel-
Just to let you know, that Junior’s real name is Junior… He does have a last name but that’s for him to give out if he wanted to… I think you are just putting other innocent names out there and really you have it all wrong… I find it quite funny that you are getting all hot and bothered over my brothers comments about your wife… He told me a few things that I knew of about you and your wife… So, you can think whatever but Junior is himself… Everyone calls him “BIG JUNZ” in the deep valley….. If you care to visit the hood one day and ask anyone who Big Junz is, Im pretty sure they know who he is… And yes, Hal is correct- Big Junz is not afraid of you and what you have to say… Why dont you give me your number and Ill have him give you call? That’s if he answers my phone calls… Junior if you are reading this, STOP ignoring my calls and call me back fool…
Hal- when are these people going to stop defending BC and for BC to step up and confess publicly for his wrong doing against the church?
LMAO@daniel… Go back to Myspace and stick with that site… you dont belong on here fool… I meant the A and B conversation was between SG and ABE/SABRINA/WHATS HAPPENING/BEAUTY and like some other nosey fools like you- just want some attention and had to put their own little two sense on here…
The real reason why I came on here is because my sister blogging as “OKAY! AND–” informed me of what you was doing in here… How you are being a coward trying to discredit anything that SG is saying… or even making up stories about my boy Kenny…. Besides, if anything SG is speaking the Truth… I have seen some things myself at the “old AFC” that I did not want to take part of… And I knew from the beginning that Barry Cook was cool but had some shady business going on behind doors….
Besides, didnt your MAMA teach you any manners? Obviously NOT…. I bet the same way you treat SG up in here reflects how you treat your mama… Do you call your MAMA- “old hag?!?” NO RESPECT at all…. NO RESPECT for the elders… Not that SG is an elder, but she is older than you and has done great things for the Church… Not only that, I know she is a strong woman of God… You better show her some RESPECT… One day someone will dog you out about parenting… So do us all a favor, stop trying to preach to SG what she did with KENNY…. because quite frankly, it’s NONE of YOUR BUSINESS…. Worry about your own kids… I know you got three….
And this will be the last time I am going to tell you that my name is JUNIOR…. Ask Abe half of Polynesian families have kids with following common names: JOHN and/or JUNIOR….
Okay! And-
Sorry sis- I know you probably not even on the comp, but you can call me now… lol… Suga, magaia kakou mea sa fai agagei i Compton… Vaiaso lea o i Long Beach… Vaai sa ii lou keige, that’s why I didnt answer the calls… lol… Call me now, or Ill see you tomorrow at the church… Much love sis…
Okay!,
I’m doing very well, thanks for asking! Well, I guess I missed that one. 🙂 It’s weird because I know that I know you and your brother but I can’t place it. I knew a couple of Juniors from the “hood” that ended up attending AFC for a bit. You got my mind racing now because I knew pretty much everybody from the “hood” that was at AFC. I’m pretty sure that who I was thinking Junior was, the family lived a few doors down from “us”. However, if I really want to find out, I can always make a quick call to my sister, I’m sure she’ll know. 🙂 Oh well, all in due time, I guess.
I’ve always been pretty involved but being in Sound most of my “labors for God” were behind the scenes, which I’m fine with. My wife and I would love to speak with you sometime but don’t want you to do anything you’re not comfortable with. It’s completely up to you.
Blessings!
HAHAHA oh look Ahab Guinn appeared wow I remember when Suzanne Yelled and got mad at you at chuch one time and you ran with your tail between your leggs..
Also Big Janz
I never said anything bad about Kenny in fact you claim to be his boy did you ever let him crash at your pad? did you ever take him to store and buy him food? did you ever take him to his job? Because I know for a fact his Mom did not and he would tell me some of the horrible things she did too him Suzzane you know what I am talking about.
Hal and I visited AFC yesterday. I do not have time to post our observations, but if you would like to know, please call us directly.
Daniel, Kenny isn’t your ===== and he doesn’t need you to speak for him. If you look up previously on this post, you will see his statement in his own words. Your statements are outright lies and are only put on this blog to create hostility between you and others. No horrible things were ever done to Kenny while he lived in our home. The astrocities that occurred in his live happened after he met people just like you. Go ahead and keep posting your lies. I am printing it all out for Kenny to read what you are saying about him and his family.
Everyone, be blessed in Jesus Name.
GJ: thank you for your stretching out an olive branch. I hope you didn’t receive too much back lash for being genuine. JJ, I hope you stuck up for her.
Abe and Sabrina, your babies are beautiful. It was so nice to see you guys and to get to meet the kiddos. We hope to see you guys soon. Keep in touch.
Anyone who saw Hal at AFC yesterday, did he seem like a Ahab to you? I don’t think so…………..
Big Junz: If you’re ever in Vista, give us a call. You and your sis are welcome to come over anytime.
Okay And: No one is growing the people up in character. “Nothing is their fault, bad things happen to good people, God planned on them losing the building the whole time, and they shouldn’t worry about “sin” in their lives because grace is sufficient. People are actually telling them stuff like that and they lap it up with hoots and hollars and then give money to the enablers. And anyway, if anyone holds them accountable, they are just “religious” people who are only holding their past against them and want to see them fail.” It is a mess. So why should anyone take responsibility for anything because it isn’t their problem? I doubt if we’ll ever hear from BC. He is “insulating” himself.
GJ: thank you for your stretching out an olive branch. I hope you didn’t receive too much back lash for being genuine. JJ, I hope you stuck up for her.
Abe and Sabrina, your babies are beautiful. It was so nice to see you guys and to get to meet the kiddos. We hope to see you guys soon. Keep in touch.
Anyone who saw Hal at AFC yesterday, did he seem like a Ahab to you? I don’t think so…………..
Big Junz: If you’re ever in Vista, give us a call. You and your sis are welcome to come over anytime.
Okay And: No one is growing the people up in character. “Nothing is their fault, bad things happen to good people, God planned on them losing the building the whole time, and they shouldn’t worry about “sin” in their lives because grace is sufficient. People are actually telling them stuff like that and they lap it up with hoots and hollars and then give money to the enablers. And anyway, if anyone holds them accountable, they are just “religious” people who are only holding their past against them and want to see them fail.” It is a mess. So why should anyone take responsibility for anything because it isn’t their problem? I doubt if we’ll ever hear from BC. He is “insulating” himself.
There was no backlash to GJ, why would there be? She is a genuine person with a good heart, everyone knows that. No one would question her character or integrity just because she said hello to you from the pulpit.
Susanne,
It was good to see the both of you. I’m sure that we’ll meet soon. As soon as a good time comes, I will let you and Hal know. Thank you for the compliments on our kids. They are amazing kids and a wonderful inheritance.
I’m also quite confident that GJ did not get any backlash. To the point, I now know that many people at AFC are aware that my wife and I have been posting here and talking with you and Hal and I have not received any “dirty looks”, warnings, advice or anything to that degree. Honestly, it’s been quite to the contrary because we, my wife and I, are in a position to love you guys, show God’s love and communicate in a way that does not attack any person or bring anybody down. Again, that’s our position and I can only speak for us.
Because of your comments to Okay! And-, I know that you feel it is still a mess. On that point, I will just say that I can agree to disagree and do so in love and respect. I would just urge anybody who is wondering, to visit AFC for themselves and find out. If you still feel the same way, that is fine but I ask that you give God the benefit of the doubt. Not us. Not the leaders. Not man. But God! If you all feel that I’m way off, or missing it, that’s fine. Also, I say again, if you have questions, ask. You may call me anytime.
To everybody, start your week off strong and be encouraged today! Much love and many blessings!
Abe
Susanne, you can continue to say that what Daniel and I have said in regards to Kenny is a lie but we know better. The truth always has a way of coming out. Daniel’s reason for bringing it up in the first place was just to state that it seemed unfair for you to bring such strong accusations against the church (some of it is probably true but still…) when you yourself are not totally honest. That was his opinion, mine as well. I know it completely comes against what your agenda is and that is why you lashed back and have encouraged others (who do not even know us) to do the same.
Bottom line, we know the truth. Deny it all you want. We are no longer going to waste time with it.
So good luck in your endeavor to rescue north county. It’s been our past experience that if a church needs to be shut down God will do it himself. I’ve seen it happen several times. If a pastor needs to be removed, he will be all in due time.
Abe and Sabrina, love you guys and we’ll see you in a few weeks!
Gino (or any other friends who wander onto this blog), if you want to catch up just email me jenniferflores03@yahoo.com.
By the way, Daniel didn’t post that, it was me, Jennifer…we’re just using the same computer.
Jennifer –
hello sweetness with a little bit of bitterness… I like it… That’s what drew me to you in the first place, it was FIGHTER in you….meeoooowww!!
Anywho, It’s been a long time… Girl, why are you tripping? Why you say that if I was Kenny’s boy, where was I when he needed a place to crash? To take him to the store? Buy him food? Take him to his job? Are you really serious??? So, what is it you want? A gold medal?!? Listen to yourself, all the good things you did for Kenny and you want to name it off up in here… Talk about PRIDE… James 4: 6 “God opposes the proud and gives grace to the Humble…
And how dare you put SG down by saying that she didnt do any of those things for Kenny…. Let me see, Who carried Kenny for nine months? SG…. Who changed his diapers? SG…. Who was there when he cried? SG…Who was there when he was sick? SG…. Who was there when he couldnt sleep? of course SG…. Who is there now, more than ever, supporting Kenny, while he pays his dues to society? SG… His mother… so, give it a rest with this I know the truth about what SG did to Kenny… Who cares? How about you both shut up and have Kenny speak for himself when he returns…… Besides, I dont ever remember Kenny bad mouthing his family until he met the both of you…… and PLEASE, why dont you JUST WORRY about your own kids? This is the problem with society today, EVERYONE wants to straighten out your kids and dont even look at their own kids…
And FYI– SG never encouraged me to come on here and say what I have to say… I am my own person… And I stand my ground… I dont need you or your idiot HUSBAND to tell me who I am… And trust me when I say I know the both of you…. Especially YOU Jennifer…. Girl, stop playing….
Well- I hope this is it for me… Because it’s getting really UGLY up in in here… And If I remember correctly, everything was heading the right direction until DANIEL and JENNIFER showed up… Go back and read the blog before you two showed up…
Daniel and Jennifer, the continued lies that you are posting and insuating on this blog is exactly what BC did to Vince Limon when Vince left the church. BC accused him of abandoning his family and called him a dead beat dad. All the while Vince was innocent. He wasn’t even the father of CR’s son.
Kenny needed a place to crash and he fed you guys a sob story and because of your own rebellion you chose to harbour him instead of telling him to go home where he belonged. He wanted you to feel sorry for him and you fell for it hook line and sinker. Kenny was running away so that he could continue doing drugs and other stuff that he knew he would not be allowed to do at home. He later told us and Victor that he did not want to bring Victor down so he left. He fed you guys and others like you a line of stuff so you would help him out. He conned you and you fell for it. Now you’re on the blog posting those lies and YOU are refusing to recognize the truth still. You are right, the truth is coming out. You guys were fooled into harbouring a runaway because of your own issues with authority. And because of your foolishness, you contributed to Kenny’s demise. You should have told him to stop whining and go home. Kenny had everything by the time he was 16 including a cherry 1991 Dark Teal Camaro that he received on his 16th birthday at his high school in front of all his ROTC cadets. (We later took the car away from him when we found out about the things he got involved in. We did not want him to hurt himself or anyone else.) He was really a blessed kid and you guys were too dumb to realize you were being had.
Why can’t you just face up to that fact and stop making idiots out of yourselves by posting a bunch of junk.
Out of all the posts of this blog yours is the only one that has ever been deleted. Your vulgarity and continued outright lying is only revealing your lack of understanding as it pertains to this situation. You came on like some kind of perverts now you’re trying to gain credibility by telling outright lies and demanding that they are truth.
If you and Daniel had any respect for Kenny you would knock it off. Here he sits in prison for maybe 12 years and you come on here posting a bunch of junk against his parents who by the way are the only source of support that he has from the outside. I wonder what he is going to say when I send him all your posts. I hope it doesn’t stress him out, but he has a right to know who is friends really are. I guarantee you that he will not appreciate what you are doing here. Kenny has worked very hard to regain the trust and respect of his family. He has apologized to us for all the things he did and said while he was using drugs. How dare you harm him now by trying to undo everything that he has worked so hard to accomplish. You both should be ashamed of yourselves. Even the lowest punk in the world would not do what you are doing. No one would come against a mother and her son while he sits in prison. Your childish “yo mamma” games are incredible irresponsible for someone who has children of you own.
I already know the truth Jennifer. The truth is that my family is whole. We are not divorced, we are not divided and we have not been a stumbling block for droves of people. We all see each other and communicate constantly with no hard feelings and no ill will.
We will continue to stand up for North County against the wiles of the enemy day and night. Count on it.
Jennifer –
hello sweetness with a little bit of bitterness… I like it… That’s what drew me to you in the first place, it was FIGHTER in you….meeoooowww!!
Anywho, It’s been a long time… Girl, why are you tripping? Why you say that if I was Kenny’s boy, where was I when he needed a place to crash? To take him to the store? Buy him food? Take him to his job? Are you really serious??? So, what is it you want? A gold medal?!? Listen to yourself, all the good things you did for Kenny and you want to name it off up in here… Talk about PRIDE… James 4: 6 “God opposes the proud and gives grace to the Humble…
And how dare you put SG down by saying that she didnt do any of those things for Kenny…. Let me see, Who carried Kenny for nine months? SG…. Who changed his diapers? SG…. Who was there when he cried? SG…Who was there when he was sick? SG…. Who was there when he couldnt sleep? of course SG…. Who is there now, more than ever, supporting Kenny, while he pays his dues to society? SG… His mother… so, give it a rest with this I know the truth about what SG did to Kenny… Who cares? How about you both shut up and have Kenny speak for himself when he returns…… Besides, I dont ever remember Kenny bad mouthing his family until he met the both of you…… and PLEASE, why dont you JUST WORRY about your own kids? This is the problem with society today, EVERYONE wants to straighten out your kids and dont even look at their own kids…
And FYI– SG never encouraged me to come on here and say what I have to say… I am my own person… And I stand my ground… I dont need you or your idiot HUSBAND to tell me who I am… And trust me when I say I know the both of you…. Especially YOU Jennifer…. Girl, stop playing….
Well- I hope this is it for me… Because it’s getting really UGLY up in here… And If I remember correctly, everything was heading the right direction until DANIEL and JENNIFER showed up… Just a suggestion, Go back and read the blog and see how things were flowing until you guys came about… It just goes to show that the ugly spirits you brought in here just stirred up UGLINESS on this blog….
Junz: Kenny experienced a heavy dose of tough love when he refused to stop doing drugs and other harmful things. We gave him every opportunity to come home, but there were boundaries. When he was using, he pushed the family almost to the breaking point. When Victor began to follow the brother he idolized, we had hard choices to make as parents. We offered Kenny eveykind of counseling and rehab that we could afford, but Kenny did not want our help at that time. We NEVER rejected or abandoned our son. However, we would not enable him while he was using. We gave him the choice and he made it. If you think that was an easy thing to do, you must not have any children of your own. Sure things got heated from time to time. Are you going to tell me your family never had any heated exchanges over some seriously hurtful situations.
All the while, we continually offered Kenny an escape from the lifestyle that was killing him. He did not want it at that time.
The result of all of this is that our family is whole. Kenny is no longer addicted to drugs and is no longer associating with the people that were so willing to “help him out.” He grew up Junz and realized what his choices brought him. He never plays the victim and he never blames his family. He is standing up like a man and dealing with his choices. And his family is helping him to pick up the pieces.
Junz, please be assured, that we love Kenny and we did everything we could within reason to help him. You have to remember that we had another child in the home to consider as well. Even Kenny made a decision a long time ago to not bring his brother down. That is why he did not come home. He was not going to stop using and he did not want to hurt his brother any more than he already had. Surely, you can understand that.
Kenny told people a lot of stuff to get by. He has already explained and apologized to us for that.
Junz, I love my son. He know that I love him and that I always loved him.
SG- I was only making a point to Jennifer because she was over here trying to put kenny under the bus…. By saying that Kenny said this and that… I was only trying to remind her that You were there from the Beginning and she shouldnt be saying anything at you… Besides, I know how it feels… Let’s just say my brother ha made some of the same choices but it ended his life a long time ago… And also, its not easy being a parent… I have a son who is about to be in high school….
SG- Dont take what I am saying in the wrong way, I was only making a point to Jennifer that a Parent is always there…And was there to Begin with…
I just dropped that post but I wasnt finished…
My point is, that Jennifer has no room to talk because you were there from the beginning and even up to now, you are still there for your Son… I was basically telling her that she needs to worry about her own kids before she even tries to point at anyone’s kids…
Janz still no last name from you HAHAHA What a *USSY Look you keep coming on here with your name as Junior but refuse to give me your last name… MUST BE SCARED Oh know.
As for Suzzane I’m done with you your a joke to everything good I PREY AFC gets its building back and goes even stronger than before because at least they will put actions to their words.
This is my last post on here JANZ if you decided to give me your last name then Cool if not hahaha *ussy
Here is my email Anthony hit me up Danieleflores@yahoo.com
Junz: Thank you for your kind and thoughful words about me and Kenny. Please don’t misinterpret my response. I just wanted to reassure YOU that I love my son. Again, thank you.
Daniella/Danielle-
*USSY?!? ask ur wife how it felt when i got in it??? its Junz biatch…. get it straight… besidez i told u that mah real name is Junior and i aint gotta give up my last name… just because u bring disgrace to da name FLORES, doesnt mean i gotta do the same on mine…Unlike you, I have mad RESPECT for my FAMILY…. that’s something you dont know… You out here putting your wife and kids on the line…. Making your wife speak on your behalf… What a joke….
Like I said punk, give me ur number… that’s what little f@gs do, give out their emails…. wassup! give me ur number uce? how bout a location? u wanna talk street, let’s meet in the streets….
Junior aka “BIG JUNZ”
Junz: I’m sorry about your brother. Hal and I will pray for your son’s continued success. If we can ever be of any help to you or your family, don’t hesitate to give us a call.
Be blessed man of God.
The power of God is strong on you. I hope you will allow God to utilize that strength for the deliverance of many. Please pray for Hal and I. We feel you would know exactly what to pray.
SG – you keep fighting the good fight, dont let anyone tell you otherwise…. I am outta here….
DANIELLA/DANIELLE/DANIEL-
im waitin on the time and place fool!
Hal- you keep standing by SG… you would be surprise how many people are greatful that you are their voice… I can name many…. Trust me, that’s how I came on finding out about this site… Oh! and of course- my loud mouth sister “OKAY! AND–” … lol… much love sis…
sorry- that post dropped again… technical issues…
Anyway- you both and the many others keep standing up for the TRUTH… because i cant wait to see it all come to light.
to SG & Hal – much love and respect to you and the family…. I will ask my Aunt to lift you and your family up at their women’s studies… take care!
Junior, don’t let Daniel upset you. It is beneath your honor to give this any place. He will not contact you and we all know it. Junior your character is stronger than this. Don’t let this foolishness bring you down.
Daniel, please stop what you are doing.
Jennifer, please do not continue to incite your husband into folly. His is over his head right now and needs to back off.
Let me say to all of you right now. I realize that the situation with Kenny has been hurtful to you and you are looking for answers. If you really love him, just continue to pray for him. I know so many of the GenX kids were hurt at AFC. You guys once all served God together. None of us can change what has happened, but we can ensure that it doesn’t happen again.
To Junior
Much love and respect to you and yours.
Hal Guinn
To the readers: I know the things you’re reading are upsetting. It may seem completely foreign that this type of dialogue would be going on between people who once attended the SAME church. Please realize that the common denominator of all these people and all of this dysfunction is Ambassador Family Church and the leadership of Ambassador Family Church.
Most of the young people that have posted all came out of the same youth group that I described back in October. A stumbling block was laid out before these kids and as you can see many are not serving God now. Those that remain at AFC still refuse to admit the wrong doing on the part of AFC’s leadership.
What you are witnessing is the spiritual DNA of AFC. These characteristics are very common amoungst those who’ve attended this church. The impact and influence was very vile and corrupt. We are hoping that this will change.
We continue to stand up boldly and insist that this organization be held accountable for the lives it negatively affected. We will not allow it to continue.
Some have stated that change is in the air. We will continue to monitor this progress. AFC will have to come to terms with it’s need for character growth and development. AFC will eventually have to grow up. We believe it will.
Again, sorry for the dialogue that is offensive. Please be patient with this undertaking.
Also, Hal and I visited the church yesterday. Some things happened that challenged some mindsets. Some of todays attacks are only backlash for our continued stand.
I’m sorry you had to witness it.
Junz-
did u know that uncle kavai is in the hospital? call the house, moms trying to call u. love u…
To everyone-
Just wanted to share this link to an AWESOME video… I know it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but it wouldnt hurt to watch and witness to the beautiful miracles that our God is doing in other peoples lives…
Our Redeemer lives INDEED!!!
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=8cf08faca5dd9ea45513
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=8cf08faca5dd9ea45513
Okay! And–,
Wow!! Incredible video. Thanks for providing a link to it. Absolutely awesome and wonderful video. I love the song and the powerful message of this video.
By the way, we would love to and will lift your uncle up in prayer. Is there anything specific we should target? Let us know. If you don’t want to give us the specifics, I can respect that, or if you would rather let me know “offline”, you can do so, as well.
Blessings!
Abe
Mindsets were definitely challenged yesterday…mine included. Analyze or trust God…it’s all about our faith. I choose God. The leadership meeting on Saturday was awesome. The things prophesied over the church were amazing. I say again, the fruit will bear witness that God’s hand is upon us.
It was such a blessing to me after service to see some people who came to visit AFC being welcomed and loved as if they were never gone. I was truly humbled at the change in stance of the leadership and people of AFC. We are growing.
I did try and meet you SG, but you all left immediately after service. I’m glad you came though.
Blessings to everyone tonight.
To Okay and…
Thank you for sharing that video, it really brings perspective in any situation.
Abe- sorry for the late reply… But Uncle Kavai has diabetes… And he just made wrong choices in food yesterday… He got too excited with the family get together yesterday and wasnt watching what he was eating… 🙂 But he is doing good now… Please pray for a speedy recovery. Thank you so much! Greatly appreciated.
I love that video… Isnt it awesome? Just thought Id share with you all…
God Bless!
Hi Susanne,
I have a couple of thoughts towards comments about the youth that you are talking about. I am really hoping to meet with you and Hal in person and that way I can share more. Since you’ve made the statement publicly I will say this, I don’t think it’s just/right to blame AFC for the recent postings between Daniel, Jennifer, and Junior. When we meet I will share why but just wanted to state it publicly. Not to defend or protect anybody. If anybody has questions as to why, they can contact me. I know that even a phone call may be difficult at this point, so you may also e-mail us at abeandsabrina@gmail.com. Feel free to contact us anytime.
Hal and Susanne, I can’t wait to meet with you and we will do our very best to make that happen. Jaden’s birthday is Wednesday, so we’ll be a little busy but I assure you, if we find time, I will call IMMEDIATELY.
What’s happening, Sabrina and I were both very happy to see former members attending. It was good to see them and speak with them and it was good to see them loved as though, like you said, they never left. I would also agree that with time, there will be fruit that God is definitely with us.
Just to clarify to the readers, Hal and Susanne were not the only former members who visited AFC on Sunday. I know that Hal and Susanne have their perspectives on things and I would not lead anybody to presume that I’m trying to speak for them or about them. Susanne has stated that you can contact them if you want their perspectives on things. I will respect them in not speaking about their events at AFC this past Sunday.
Again, if you have questions or would like to know more, call or e-mail anytime.
Much love and many blessings!
Abe
Okay! And–
Well, I don’t know if you’ve noticed or recognized it but it seems to be a generational curse among Polynesian families. My dad and two of my brothers have it, so I know all about what comes with diabetes. We will pray for his quick and total recovery. It’s good to hear he’s good now.
Yes, the video was powerful and almost left me speechless. There’s so many correlations and it does help to keep a great deal of things in perspective. The magnificence of God! Just awesome!
Blessings!
Abe
Hal and I did not leave immediately after service. We spent some time after greeting and talking to old friends. You’re misrepresented the facts once again. Should I list all the people who we talked to before we left.
You continually represent yourself on this blog as a genuine person, yet when given the opportunity, you miss it. Not one so called leader of AFC came and talked to Hal or I. We stayed after service to give people the opportunity to show us that things have changed. Many things have not. You keep telling the blog that they have so we went to find out for ouselves. Things will never change until people take responsibility for the condition they find themselves in and do something different.
You didn’t have anything to say in person when given the chance yet you continue to come on this blog and run your mouth. You do not have the character to look people in the eye and call them a liar. All you do is come on the blog and twist everything said to continue your web of deception. Again, given the opportunity to meet face to face you still have not responded. Here is my phone number 760.622.9976. Come let us reason together the facts. Lets all take a break from La La land and get real. You can meet face to face can’t you? Or do you have so many other obligations that you can’t find the time to support your own rhetoric.
One of the couples that showed up are being lured back to AFC with promises of leadership, etc. We know this for a fact. The husband is not completely for the idea, but his wife seems to need the approval and acceptance of AFC. He is actually very concerned. He has not bought into the whole idea. He is just doing what makes his wife happy.
I’m sure there are churches all over town that had first time visitors. That is not the issue here and you know it.
What Hal and I saw for ourselves is more than our perspective. We would not come on the blog and outright lie. I have to go to work now, but if necessary we will expound further on what actually happened to draw our conclusions for us.
AFC is not where it should be period. And the lack genuine repentance and humility is exactly what is holding up the process. If someone came in and conducted a 3 day conferance on Character with no organ, no hype, no jump jump, I bet no one in the church would show up. They come to get entertained. And they are not dissappointed. Start preaching on character and see what happens.
The challenge remains. As always. we are available to meet.
I love that video. It shows the heart of a father. I’m not sure if you know that that is a father and son. They’ve done interviews before and gave their testimony. It is awesome. No matter what, this man did whatever he had to do to ensure his son a life of victory. He got himself in “shape” and now competes together with his son in sporting events. It is awesome.
This man has character. No whining, no poor me, just doing what HE had to do to bring wholeness.
SG – I apologize for the oversight. I looked at the sanctuary and did not see you so I assumed you left. If it looked like a misrepresentation of facts, again I apologize. I genuinely did try and find you all after the altar.
Moving Forward…(to everyone else)
I believe no matter what happens, there are always people out to look at the negative in any given situation. Arguing about who is right or wrong, questioning the integrity and character of a people, does nothing to promote the Kingdom of God. A lot of the tactics I’ve seen here remind me of my older brothers experience as a Correctional and Parole Officer. A lot of the same mind control, manipulation, etc.
I don’t believe that anyone here is a horrible person, if I didn’t go through life believing that there were good people left in this world, I would have given up years ago. And just like others that have spoken out, I too am speaking out in my own book about my testimony. And it has nothing to do with AFC.
I leave here knowing that I am accountable to God and to my husband. Some people like the fighting and the name calling and everything that goes against what Jesus represented. I get that there are convictions and that some will fight to the death to prove they are right. And that’s ok. I’m just not one of those people. I believe the fruit is bearing witness, I believe that I am growing every day, and I am NOT mature in my spirituality and anyone who thinks they are has MISSED it.
God creates circumstances beyond our control, and so many things have happened within my control that I CHOSE to do. I live my life knowing that when I die, I gave the grace, restoration and love that Christ commanded me to do and I REPENTED. I can only speak for myself. It’s been easy for people to judge my husband and I, and we expected it. But everyday we wake up and its always about God first. All the backtalk and things that were said in all these different blogs don’t take us off our purpose.
My journey here has ended. I’m available by e-mail, and just as everyone else encourages a phone call, I encourage an e-mail sanitywriting@yahoo.com
I’ll be honest, I don’t call people just to be questioned about my character. There are some battles in life we must choose. I choose the ones that are for the Kingdom.
Blessings to everyone today…
Paula White is a Jezebel period. She mentored a woman for quite some time and tried to lead her into a relationship with a man who was known for explicit pornography over the internet. The woman revealed this to Paula repeatedly and instead of supporting her against it, she made lustful comments over the air, regarding the man’s looks, caught up in the pride of life and lust of the flush. She’s a complete phony as is Rick Hawkins, read the articles in Texas as to what happened in him ministry and the filthy abominations that took place leading to the divorces of he and his son. These dirty wolves in sheeps clothing need to be exposed for who they are. Contrary to popular belief they are not true Christians. These are leaders who are in greater condemnation as they are the teachers of the people in the church and serve as witnesses to the outside.
There is no suprise that she is divorced. Randy and Paula live prideful, arrogant dissolute life styles behind the scenes and claim to be God’s messengers to those who have no idea what is really going on. If any of you could see the graphic photos of the perverted individual she tried to coerce the woman to date, you would fall off your chairs and run the other direction. She then tried to convince the woman to have a relationship with a married Pastor, to cover up her own improprieties and guilt. Corruption begets corruption! The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. This is blatant disregard for the Father himself and the true things of God, that represent the life of his true ones. It is necessary to discern the false ones from the true (discernment/judgment) whatever you want to call it, as to not be led off the cliff into hell with them. I say this in all sincerity because if I had listened to her it would have ruined my life like it did hers. How do I know this you ask? Because I am the woman!
Truthbetold:
I don’t know you or them, but as I read your post my heart was breaking for you – even before I read your last sentence.
I am so sorry you had to experience that, and so grateful that you were blessed with discernment. You listened to the Father’s voice and allowed the Holy Spirit to guide you through what must have been a very difficult situation.
Your situation is a classic example of so many things, but the one that really stands out to me is this:
God is good! He knows humans are imperfect, and he will show Himself inspite of our imperfections. You listened to His voice, allowed Him to order your steps, kept His words in your heart, and in doing so chose not to be swayed. You came out victorious!
Humans will let us down, they will make bad choices, they’ll dissapoint us, and the enemy would try to keep our focus on that. Why? So we won’t see the many times our loving Father intervenes on our behalf and brings us through things that should have brought us down – all for His glory!
I can honestly say that some of the most painful experiences I have had usually involved another Christian, and often a Christian leader. Through it all, He taught me so many things!
Forgiveness was something that always came for me in one extreme or another – I could easily and quickly forgive some while others took an incredibly long time and would tear me up in the process. Last summer, I was given an opportunity (I can say that now 😉 ) to break that pattern. It was the kind of thing that could easily have been the last straw for me and as I stood there with the full weight of the situation bearing down on me, to my surprise, these words came out of my mouth “Lord, I forgive him”. I can not begin to describe the freedom and peace that followed. It took a few days before I was convinced that I really had!
In doing so, He was able to show me the “bigger picture” reason for what I had gone through, He showed me how that situation was intended to “take out” both me and that leader. He continues to show me how that was also a time of preparation for future events that would try to steal my joy, my trust in Him, my understanding of His grace and never ending mercies. I have watched the leader I spoke of grow so much since that time, and I rejoice with him as we both continue to grow.
Honestly, I have no idea why I just gave that testimony… It’s not a situation I speak of with very many, but I felt like I was supposed to share it today.
As I wrote this, one song has been playing in my mind… The song is called “Time” and the verse I keep hearing is “All my days are numbered, all my steps are ordered. Every breath and every moment I have left belong to You – I belong to You.”
Brother Abe you have stated that if anyone has any questions for you they should just ask,well I have a few questions for you.
Have you ever heard Barry Cook lie about something or someone from the pulpit?
Do you think that Barry Cook should stand with his congregation during these difficult times in his church or do you think he is doing the right thing by “insulating” (aka.hiding) himself from the people?
Do you think Barry Cook should give an account for the accusations against him?
Do you think that Barry Cook had an affair outside of his marriage?
Do you think that Barry Cook is an innocent man and has done none of the things of which many people on this blog have testified to?
Do you think it is right to have a quote on the screen at AFC that says “Focus on the important few not the insignificant many”
Do you think that there are insignificant people in the kingdom?
Do you think that 600 people just missed it and left because they were wrong in what they saw?
Do you think that the child in question belongs to Barry Cook?
Do you think that Barry Cook will ever be man enough to tell the truth?
I am not asking for you to speak on behalf of Barry, Iam asking you to tell me what YOU think. These questions are for you and you alone.
HAL
This is a total soap opera. Ya’ll need to get a life. Hal & Suzanne, how old are you two anyway? This is like the high school gossip/slander circle putting people on blast. And regardless of the pages and pages of blogs to date, “I” think the two of you are immature and childish. Aren’t you so proud of yourselves for sucking as many as you can into this drama you’ve created that really has nothing to do with you – unless ya’ll were part of the orgy or child bearing. Maybe that’s it, maybe ya’ll are upset because you weren’t included. Tsk Tsk.
And what a punk, Hal, to try to goat Abe into putting his Pastor on blast and on a blog no less. You have Abe’s number, call him and speak of those things in private. All you’re doing is setting him up to take the fall but we all know that he won’t bite and then you’ll slam him on this blog for not answering your questions either. Aren’t there some souls out there that need saving? Couldn’t ya’ll put all this time and energy into something positive? Abe’s the only one so far that’s actually used this blog to invite people to church. What have you all done besides hide the identity of your own? Be Proud! You left AFC – great, awesome, wonderful. The man in charge is still the man in charge. So what do you keep coming back for? Because you feel you might miss out on some more church gossip – no seriously, get a life!
Misery loves company and ya’ll are some miserable folks! Unless you have to pay child support for that child, pay that man’s mortgage, or sleep with or be financially responsible for any of the women involved, then just mind yours! Regardless of how hurt you think/say you are or how many people you’ve got lined up to say they needed counseling after all was said and done, YOU ALL are the only one’s responsible for your Happiness – Not God and Not your Pastor (past or present), and isn’t there a scripture somewhere that talks about you having no right to be walking in offense. None of you have gone through a portion of what Jesus did and he loves and forgives all. So get over yourselves already!
Yes it really matters because the CHURCH matters. You have not swayed out resolve in the slightest. You’ve only confirmed the need for our VOICE, the voice of many, to continue to cry out for repentance in this land. I think it is time to turn up the volume.
Jezebel Church, get ready, we’re coming for you!!!
To Truth be Told:
It must have taken a lot of courage for you to finally speak out publicly about your ordeal. I will not assume that you did so out of unforgiveness or offense. I believe you see the bigger picture clear, cyrstal clear! It is clear that judgement has come to the house of God from coast to coast. Those who’ve been weighed in the balance and found wanting are experiencing real correction. Some have repented and some have not. The Virtuous Church that continues to cry out for righteousness in the land will be heard. The Lord has not turned a deaf ear to our cries and He will bring His church into alignment with His purposes in the earth.
Friend, God will plant you again in a place where you will flourish in all aspects of Kingdom living. If you’re not there already, give way to the Holy Ghost and allow Him to reignite your zeal for the lost. Go in this might of yours and let the enemy regret the day that he ever tried to come between you and your Lord. Finish your course woman of God. Run it all the way to VICTORY!!
To What Happening: That is about the fourth time that you have so eloquently and dramatically stated that you were “leaving the blog” because you have more productive things to do with your time….yet you keep coming back. Lets see how long it takes you to post again…..10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1……………
Goodnight All. We’ll be seeing you soon.
Yet you’ve been so clear to state that you are no longer a part of that CHURCH so once again – get over yourself. Its no longer your business or issue to deal with, as matter of fact it never was. So they put you out, if not for a good reason, then just be happy you’re free (so to speak). Go and focus on your own CHURCH and its issues because you’d be foolish to think that it doesn’t have some of its own. Don’t they all?
What you are doing is not “helping” the CHURCH. It’s hilarious that you think you are so important that anyone besides yourself “needs” your voice. And who the heck is “our voice” – the only one on here is you. You could die tomorrow and no one would miss you on this blog. Others might in your personal life but not on this blog and not for harboring so much offense that you’ve been on this thing non stop for 8 months. This blog wasn’t even about AFC but Paul & Rick and you just had to find a place to get attention. Poor poor pitiful Suzanne, please! Love and venom spitting from the same mouth – Jesus and Satan don’t reside in the same place and even Satan can quote scripture.
Have you resolved anything? Gotten anything other that more people to join your pity pary? The CHURCH doesn’t need your voice while its bashing others. Use your voice to witness and save a soul. Be the Christian you claim to be. Walk in Love. When’s the last time you’ve done that? People like you are why people stay far away from CHURCH. Flee from the Gossip Queen of the Internet. She obviously has no life since hers revolves entirely around making sure BC gets his.
It’s all so stupid anyway. Let’s say its all true. So what?! What’s that got to do with you? You gonna raise that child? You gonna pay their bills? You going to counsel all of them with your almighty wisdom? If he were to confess, would it help? Probably not because you’d still sit there with your self righteous self and carry on about how right you were until it kills you. You’re like a person claiming to be raped by a family member but you keep coming over to the house and showing your behind.
Let it go! Move on! He’s not your pastor anymore. He’s nothing to you anymore. And the members of AFC are not your responsibility. Focus on the new church home you claim to be so happy in. You have no cause – you’re just a sad pitiful person that placed too much emphasis on a man rather than God. Don’t blame the man for your mistakes. You fell for it, hook, line & sinker.
Dear Beauty from Ashes,
Thank you so much for your heartfelt words of compassion and encouragement. You have truly been led by the Holy Spirit to understand the depth of the hurt and disillusionment I am experiencing because of these situations.
There are so many other details that I cannot even begin to share or think about because it is very painful. The attempted cover-up included political assassination, false reports and all manner of unfathomable lies in an attempt to destroy my credibility so that others would never find out the truth.
Like you wisely mentioned with keen discernment, I sought the Father in all of these things, and after repeated warnings from the Lord to her and leadership to turn from their ways, and to put a stop to the carnal/fleshly examples and corruption, it fell on deaf ears. I again sought the Lord for His will and he told me to be still and know that He is God. I resigned to the circumstances putting the whole thing in his hands. Three days later a Federal Investigation by Senator Grassley was announced in the media. Our Father God is truly a good, good, good, and just Father. He does indeed protect His beloved, annointed, truly faithful servants!!
Even after this, I prayed for her and them, exhorted and warned them, forgave them until I could do no more. The worst of it all is that she is well aware of the sin as it was so deliberate, that when addressing her/them with my mercy and grace, I was told to stop freaking out (due to my repeated warnings of scripture from the Lord), and told to be quiet and just go with the flow, all with a wink of the eye. The Lord told me to stay away from her completely, and only listen to Him. I was devastated. She had still not taken it to heart. I expect that judgement will fall as nothing will be left hidden or unrevealed. This is what the Lord told me. And, He is not a mere mortal man that He should lie.
Thank you for helping me to forgive, for my own release in freedom and peace. I also truly thank you for openly sharing your story with this wounded sheep. It helped to uplift my spirit, hearing and knowing that I am not alone, having ultimate victory over the enemy!! He didn’t have me, for I belong to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
The lesson here is to always, always, listen to the Lord’s voice and follow His word, no matter WHO tells you otherwise. It’s good to know that there are like minded servants of the Lord who truly seek to serve and please Him with their whole heart, mind, soul and lifestyle! We are God’s living epistles that speak volumes to the believer and non-believer alike without having to say a word!
And yes, I do realize that the “big picture” is before me and I almost turned completely away from everyone, and possibly the true ones that the Lord would align me with to help one another in our life’s goals and ministries, for the benefit and blessing of others.
One last thing precious BFA, by your obedience and His divine grace you just shared a profound word of knowledge with the song that He put in your rememberance for you to give me, as this is the answer to the question I have been asking for quite some time (a choice I have had before me), regarding the special man of God that he has prepared for my family and my future. Thank you for being his messenger and vessel of grace. He is without a doubt, an awesome and wonderful Father! Blessings to you and yours…
Dear SG,
You are poignantly accurate as I am so extremely loyal that it was with much long-suffering, patience, mercy, then sheer exhaustion of holding it in that finally gave way to speaking the painful truth openly.
Just as you mentioned, I have been crying out in the wilderness for righteousness to go forth in the land, and your words that the Father has not been deaf to my pleas is very reassuring because He (Father God) knows that this is exactly how I’ve been feeling.
These are healing words you have delivered my friend, and mighty ones at that! I have even used the exact words of “…measured and found wanting” to describe a certain person, associated with the situation, while addressing the issues, who has not yet repented. Once again, god is amazing, and faithful. What is the scripture about stone polishing stone, or building one another up?
And Miraculously enough, I WAS told to give her and leadership scripture telling them that because of their disobedience, and lawlessness to the covenants/commandments of God, and that of the people, a curse (natural disasters) would go forth from the heavens, as whirlwinds of His fury, from one end of the land to the other. Please know that I do not say these things lightly as my Father God does not take kindly to speaking untruthful words in His name.
The most unfortunate thing of all is that innocent ones are also harmed because of the acts and judgements on the disobedient, the wheat and the tares being intertwined, to the sometimes near or complete devastation of a family, community, church or city. With that said, let us all humble ourselves and repent (turn from our wicked/natural ways) before the Lord, asking for His mercy and grace, followed with obedience, discipline and love of the commandments and one another. Truth is not relative, or the secretary, or your brother’s wife, etc., it is fidelity and faithfulness to the end.
And yes I will continue to run the race man of God!!! All the way to the finish line. The zeal for the lost speaks to me of some of my loved ones, and the place I have been shown to worship at that will help to bring them in to a saving relationship with Christ and life eternal.
Once again, the Lord is directing my path through his faithful servants. Another option I have been considering, while holding back from entering in to another church, needing to heal and learn to trust again. My all knowing Father knew exactly what to put in your heart and mind, and at your trusty fingertips.
May the enemy regret that he ever came between me and my God!! And that I came to this blog site and received the spiritual food, encouragement and profound words of knowledge that helped to set me back on my course, from pain to purpose, toward the higher calling of Christ, and full destiny He has already prepared for my life! Let us keep on, keeping on, trusting the Lord, good and faithful servant!
What powerful words of truth and might you have shared. You summed up
Truthbetold:
Your kind message is truly humbling!
In all honesty, I had one of those “God, are you sure? No, I mean are you REALLY sure?” conversations before hitting the submit button – literally and figuratively!
I pray that His love never ceases to amaze me.
The blessings God has given all around have turned that experience last summer into one of the best things that could have happened – there’s something I wouldn’t have seen coming! To know that another has found comfort is such a testimony to His grace and His ability to use anything we give Him for His glory!
Your last paragraph made me smile! It must have been you I was praying for today. That song has been in my head or on my lips since my earlier post… and at least 10 times on my car CD player 🙂 (The artist is Michael English, and the album is The Prodigal Comes Home – in case you’d like to hear it)
Stay strong woman of God, He knows all of those things that have hurt you and He will continue to heal that pain and use what the enemy meant for evil to His glory and you will be abundantly blessed for your obedience and faith. These blessings I impart to you in Jesus name!
Okay Beauty for Ashes, hand over the kleenex box…
I thank God you pushed that button! I needed to hear your testimony, really. No, really! I have also been trying to find the lyrics to the song all day and must have gone through every artist that recorded a song “time,” on the internet, to no avail. Is it named “time” by Micael English?
I sincerely thank you for your all day prayers, because little did you know, until now, that your words and that of SG were so comforting that a deep spirit of grief was released that flowed and flowed until I was finally able to feel peace and light in my spirit, and joy in my soul. Thank you for the impartation of blessings and the miracle of your witness. He reigns!
Again Does it Matter: No substance. Do you feel better now? Good…..but you haven’t changed a thing. See you soon.
Isn’t it amazing how rather then being sucked in, someone actually tells you about yourself and what your doing wrong and you clam up. As a matter of fact, I do feel better now and as far as not changing anything, neither have you! Your still miserable after 8 months of blog /gossip therapy.
I just ahve a couple of points to make about the whole situation. Being someone who knows who SG is and seeing how even her own household is in disorder it is really funny to see how she can easily go criticise someone elses life.
SG I think it is time that you are blown out of the water for who you are. Even as a member of AFC you always had a negetive opinion about the church. The only time you ever really had anything nice to say is when you were able to make a show in front of a multitude of people.
And yet your own sons are in constant turmoil becuase of your emotional abuse towards them. I am someone who knows because I watched you do it first hand. Even now I can still say that you try to manipulate and control whne really you shouldn’t. I know that you are a women of God yes…and yes you are prophetic, but I believe tha tyour vision is clouded by mistrust, and hurt that was caused to you.
I don’t know why you are STILL talking about AFC when it seems that everything accured so long ago. Must you still talk about something that most everyone is not interested in talking about. You are not a person of forgiveness but of constant reminder that someone made a mistake.
I knwo that you yourself are not perfect and neither is APOSTLE Barry Cook. Weather you like it or not he will be the first to admit he is human just like us, and he can make mistakes just like us. And in that…since you are soo concerened with what he is doing, why dont’ we start putting your business out there to. You know the business about how you manipulate and control your husband how you are fake and two faced. I will admit I do not go to church. And its people like you that keep me from that. But I did grow up in church and to see you talk so much smack is just funny cause you think your are holyer than anyone.
My suggestion to you is concentrate on spreading the word in the BIBLE…..not in STREETS OR TABLOIDS! My thing is I can really care less weather the baby is his or not…I have enough responsiblities in my life and my family is more importatant to me then his problems and life. And to me…I think your prioriteis are a little mixed up considering you care about his mistakes more than your life ha! In high school you would be called the DRAMA QUEEN…funny…are you still in high school? If not maybe you should act otherwise.
GET OVER YOURSELF!
Ok, so after hearing about the name bashing going on here from Sabrina and my Sissy on Myspace I decided to finally click on the link and see what all the fuss was about. Curiosity. I’m just gonna flat out be truthful and say I really didn’t read all of the blog and I only partially scanned through some of the comments. I have a life, sorry. BUT, I just wanted to say that even though there were tons of issues with and at AFC both with my family personally and with dear close friends of mine; I was blessed to of been a part of it. I’ve moved on and seriously it seems like my AFC days were a lifetime ago. But I still have many relationships with people both at the church still and ones that have left and I value them all and thank God everyday for taking my path to AFC. If you never fall down then you never know how to have compassion for those who have fallen.
It’s funny because I wasn’t even going to write anything but then I saw what some of my family and friends wrote and felt compelled (no, not by God haha) to write a comment 🙂
I just hope that EVERYONE who was touched by AFC has blessed and fruitful lives!!
A little helpful hint… learn to let go and learn that believe it or not; we’re all just human and we make mistakes. It’s what you do with your life after you’ve made a mistake that counts…. make it a lesson learned!!! 🙂
Oh and I thought Jesus said for the one without sin to cast the first stone… just sayin.
Anywho… I’m not even going to log onto here again so if you write a response I’m not gonna see it.
And just cuz I love my brother so much…
PEACE OUT MII NIGGAS!!!!!!!!!!!
~Lala
Isn’t it amazing that almost everyone will admit that Barry Cook has made mistakes yet nobody defending him will say what those mistakes are! The only person that has not answered to anything is Barry Cook. The questions still remain.
As long as Barry Cook continues to attempt to cover-up for his “past” it will never be his “past”. Every morning that he awakens and chooses to live a lie, that is what is keeping this entire situation in the present.
To get over yourself
That attempt to blow SG out of the water as you put it didn’t even make a splash when it hit….. try a bigger squirt gun.
Why does it matter what those mistakes are? Why is it your business? Who died and made you hall monitor or mistake calculator? Barry Cook doesn’t have to answer to you or post on an internet blog just to make you happy or get you to shut up. He’s obviously got bigger fish to fry and you two simply are not a priority.
And don’t pretend to care about whether he lets go of his past or not – My God, you and your wife can’t seem to let go of your own! How he wakes up daily and chooses to live his life still has nothing to do with you. You both are what’s keeping this in the present while others are trying to forget – you are so far from the healing process its pathetic. I hope the next time either of you screw up, someone doesn’t feel the need to post it on the internet. Get a life!
As long as Barry Cook claims to be a spiritual father in the community that I live in then I have every right to expect the truth from him.
Dear Does it really matter:
With all due respect. It does really matter. If a leader of God’s people, given a position of trust and responsibility to uphold the principles of faith, before God and HIS church, has broken serious covenants/commandments before God and His people, he has the responsibility to the Father and the Lord, to take responsibility for the breaking of those covenants and lives, by sincere repentance, admitting to the ones hurt and the congregation he leads that he made a serious mistake against God and His people that does not in anyway reflect the true nature of our Father and Lord .
Father God will not be mocked. Leading His church into believing that it is okay to have done these things, with no outward sign of true sorrow or repentance for his sins, will lead his congregation to believe that there are no principles of conduct expected by God, His leaders, and the church. That is when all hell breaks loose and everyone is left to his own way, causing chaos and division in the church.
To whom much is given much is expected. The greater condemnation is on those who profess to be teachers and followers of the faith, while modeling an entirely different and corrupt lifestyle before His people. Woe be to those ones who have harmed or caused my children to sin, better to have a millstone tied around their neck and be thrown to the bottom of the sea.
It’s time to take begin true repentance by stepping down from the role of leadership, for a time, if not permanently, and do some soul and conscience searching, and repairing of the breaches of faith. Salvation by grace, by our Lord, was made as an atonement for our sins, unto repentance!
Since when did he claim to be a spiritual father of the community? Maybe at AFC but the community? And since you are no longer a part of AFC, then he’s no longer your spiritual father. You left the house and are under a new spiritual father. Be concerned with him. Or why not just be concerned with your own house and stay out of other folks business. Are you investigating every pastor in Oceanside or just the ones that appear to be an easy target? Great way to show your Christianity – Kick ’em while they’re down…
To face the truth – my point is not that what “may or may not have happened” is okay or permissable but as you said he has that responsibility to the Father and to the Lord, not to Hal and Susanne. And unless you are a member under his immediate pastoring then what he does or doesn’t do shouldn’t be any of your business. If it happened while you were there and you decided to leave, then great. Move on! Now if the 600 had stuck around to fight the good fight against evil and attempted to put him in his place and get the situation rectified, have people removed from certain positions, etc. then fine but no, they decided to bounce and are now causing trouble from afar. Why not just leave and find somewhere else to fellowship? The non stop ongoing baggering for the truth is not what’s going to set them free. God is what makes them free. They choose to remain bound up with BC’s possible sins when its none of their concern. Not anymore at least. Once you leave you have no say and if it was so bad there, then why do they keep coming back?
to hail Guinn:
my blog was to SG…and honestly I can care less if naybody else believe it….if you read what I said I was tecknically talking to her…not you so yeah…
and then I wasn’t trying to cause drama with it…the reason why I am not too cocerned is the fact that you don’t really know what I was talking about. SG does…she knows what I am talking about with her 2 sons and 2nd husdand. I just dont understand why she is so consumed with soemone mistakes. I agreee with Does it really matter….when they said that above me…
I just want her to realsize that dwelling on the past doesn’t change anything…Read Ecclesiasties 7:20 my favorite scripture. Nodoby is perfect…and we are not here to judge people and reming them of their mistakes. God says that once he fogives us thats it…its over everything is erased and we start fresh with him. We being people of God…need to show the same thing because if that is Gods character it should be ours too…so this whole blog thing about back biting and gossiping and everything like that…its sad. It really is. But Apostle is a great man and though he has been put on a pedestool in life…he continues to preach Gods word! Its better than what SG is doing I can tell you that….
To face the truth again – you stated “It’s time to take begin true repentance by stepping down from the role of leadership, for a time, if not permanently, and do some soul and conscience searching, and repairing of the breaches of faith. Salvation by grace, by our Lord, was made as an atonement for our sins, unto repentance!”
Isn’t that exactly what BC is doing now? Staying away, taking time for soul searching, counseling, repairing his breaches of faith. But they bashed him for that too – they said he went into hiding like he’s actually afraid of them. What can they do other than run their mouth. He’s already stepped down from what I can see by having Apostle Satrape take over and all the others in leadership seem to be running the church now. Apostle Satrape stated he was insulating himself and what did SG & Hal do, they dogged him and talked trash about not only him but the new Apostle that has stepped in.
Hal & Susanne will simply never be happy. They weren’t when they were there, after they left, now and probably not ever in the near future. Misery loves company – that’s already been said. They aren’t here to save the CHURCH. They are just looking for others to drag down with them. Rather than lend a hand or send out a prayer for this so called “bad man”, they just complain and gossip. There’s nothing physically they can do to fix it including blogging or having pity parties at their home. They simply need to go to their prayer closets and stay there as long as it takes until they get the truth they so much desire. And if they stay in there forever, I’m sure they won’t be missed.
Does it matter:
Points made. Yet, my question is this…did BC ever take the time to address the congregation openly, or write a letter of apology to the congregation asking forgiveness for hurting the church. His actions were not isolated, they affected everyone, not to mention the perception of integrity of the staff and church leadership, and the standing of the church in the community.
If he did not openly address the church in some way, yet, he needs to. Why? To put all truth and false reports to rest, so that the new pastor/leader and regrouped church can move forward in peace.
BC had the trust of the people in his role of leadership over the church, to uphold the standards of faith, but fell into great sin and chose another path. He is responsible for the mess and division he created, and now must take responsibility for clearing it up by coming clean, himself, to whatever degree is necessary, to bring healing to the church.
A simulcast would work. Then he should, for all Godly intents and purposes, pass the mantle onto someone else in the church, and continue to makes amends and atonement for the choices he made that hurt so many people. Until…a spirit of God’s forgiveness is released over his life. This will take time, and is a healing process. There is no other way, if AFC is to recover from this.
May all those who have been hurt by this, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, and socially, put their trust and faith in Christ, to fill those deep places of pain and betrayal, with His ever-encompassing and increasing love, faith and goodness. His love will never fail you!
Blessings on all of you who are remaining faithful and obedient at such a difficult time for the church. Your efforts will save many, and will not go unnoticed by the Father, for His eyes are upon His people and He will order your steps. Be faithful and strong and do whatever is directed by His Spirit, and know that in doing so, all will be well and will go according to His will. It’s time to gather and pray.
In the words of a very wise and loving Lord:
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be THY name, THY kingdom come, THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven, give us this day (the present), our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. LEAD us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For THINE is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen.
HAHAHAHA… Where’s SG?
Hey Hail yea sure she didn’t get blown out of the water? She has not posted since the AM thats the first. MAYBE she finally got a job or better yet a life.
HEY JANZ:
I talked to a couple of the ladies that used to go to the church and they told me who you were, BUT that I should really call you small janz just to better define you..
Anywho how is your brother….OPPS wait sorry my bad.
Does anyone else think awards should be given out to people who rid this world of gangbangers born buy dogs?
SG SAYS:
“Yes it really matters because the CHURCH matters. You have not swayed out resolve in the slightest. You’ve only confirmed the need for our VOICE, the voice of many, to continue to cry out for repentance in this land. I think it is time to turn up the volume.
Jezebel Church, get ready, we’re coming for you!!!”
DEF SAYS:
SG Its about time you pick up your peps they have been ready and waiting since 3:30 pm
Also I could have swore I heard the devils boots shaking, but is turned out to be Hail in the kitchen baking a pie.
To face the truth
Points made as well. However, as of today, not only has he not done as you say he should to rectify the situation except temporarily step down but he has also not been proven guilty of any of the things they speak of. At this point, it’s still all rumors. His wife did leave as well as alot of members and then they lost the building but the rest are just rumors.
They claim he has been seen by some doing or saying things unbecoming however the ones who have witnessed it are not the ones speaking out, at least not on this blog. By the way they show themselves on this blog, both Hal & Susanne, it’s not shocking that they would be put out of the church. They are causing nothing but division and disruption.
These two have taken it upon themselves to be prosecutor, judge and jury and in the name of the Lord, no less. A man that has been preaching for as long as he has, you don’t think he knows what needs to be done if anything. Does anyone actually think bashing him on a public blog in the name of “Jesus” is the proper way to handle it? They’ve taken it to an entirely different level to where they are not simply trying to hold their ex-pastor responsible for his actions but blast anyone that doesn’t agree with them and to be so childish as to put other peoples on blast that are obviously not BC. At what point do they just stop making it their job to hold him accountable for how they feel. They still can’t prove anything – it’s all hearsay. They think he’s guilty by omission but can’t even prove that.
It’s gotten to the point where none of this blogging is about God and his ways or the rules and responsibilities of a Pastor that may or may not have slipped. It’s become a place to verbally abuse, criticize, gossip and slander others by those who claim to be Christians themselves. I did actually read the entire blog and believe me at first I felt that SG had maybe some of the facts right but then after 8 months of viciousness and such utter disrespect for others while quoting scripture at the same time, she immediately lost my vote. Just because they can quote scripture doesn’t mean they are walking in the fruit. They’ve spoiled all their fruit with the junk that comes from their mouth. So regardless of what everyone thinks he’s done, they’ve lost their case because of what they’ve done.
Why am I wrong for making them accountable for their actions? Like I mentioned before, this blog wasn’t even about AFC but Paula & Rick and SG found herself a platform and ran with it. Had she found a proper forum for her discussion and not attacked others, former members, existing members, people even unknown to her then it might have simply been a great debate.
Personally, I don’t care what he did or didn’t do. He will answer to the Lord for himself. He’ll either apologize for being dishonest publicly or he’ll just go away and suffer on his own. Either way, it’s in God’s hands now and I don’t remember SG & Hal relieving God of his duties.
My irritation is with people just like SG & Hal that are tearing more people down than they are lifting them up. Those may just be the traits a person doing unto others what’s already been done to them. But there comes a time when you just simply have to grow up and graduate from high school and all the childish antics. Shake it off – seriously, 8 months of blogging and still no resolve. They need to take a vacation from the drama and give everyone else a break. Step down from pulpit themselves and give others a chance to heal.
That’s it – I’m done.
Does it really matter:
Well then…let truth and Spirit be the guide…and let the healing begin!
Now that Does it Matter has got all that garbage off their chest…..
The truth is that none of this would have ever taken place if the community would have witnessed a shred of evidence from the people in question of their remorse for the many lives that were torn apart by the misconduct of AFC leaders. That is why even the closest people to this situation left the church. Their leaving did not disqualify their voice no matter how much AFC would like to shut them up. When your Elders and Deacons come to their pastor and say, “Take a DNA test.” and he refuses even though his appointed system of checks and balances believes that misconduct has taken place, people are forced to make hard choices. Many people left AFC because they felt that no accountability was being brought to the situation (and they still don’t believe it has) only denial after denial. The “older” the situation got, the harder it was for even the most faithful people to deny what happened.
Others have posted on this blog what they know and believe about this situation. It is just convenient for them to be ignored by those who would continue to weave their web of deception in this county. Hey, we’re just not buying it and that makes people at AFC mad. Historically, what they say is the only truth and if you dare to stand opposed to their blatant disregard for truth, non-biblical and unsound doctrine, and/or the influence of corrupt behavior, they will attack you with furry. This behavior is common place at AFC. They’ve done it over and over again. They are used to people cowering in shame and fear. AFC slandered, bullied, and venomiously attacked numerous people over the pulpit for years when they (the people speaking up) could no longer disregard the blatant errors. Now they (AFC) are upset because they are now being put on “blast” for years of corrupt influence in North County.
They can yell and scream and fight against the truth until they are blue in the face. This kind of rebellion is expected from people who have given themselves over to the things of this world without apology. However, it does not move anything at all. Why? Because it has no power over the people any longer. We know the truth and we will not allow AFC to scream, yell, threaten, intimidate, manipulate, etc us out of the truth.
I’ve spoken to Victor and Kenny about all the garbage that some have posted on this blog about them and our family. They both just laughed. In all areas, our family is whole and blessed. We lack for nothing and we have nothing to be ashamed of, so AFC you can stop trying to shame us or blame us or wish us out of our happiness. Standing up against blatant misconduct and ongoing deception does not make us unhappy people. Actually, it makes us stable people. We have the foundation underneath us as a family that allow us to go the distance. You cannot unravel our peace, joy, or resolve to see THE VIRTUOUS CHURCH arise.
So my final thoughts this morning are this: Jezebel Church you’re days are numbered in North County. Your corrupt and vile presence will not be tolerated. You must go. The Virtuous Church will take her rightful place and usher in the genuine move of God. Her fruit will remain and her children will rise up and call her blessed. She will experience true unity. The kind that brings life to a community and wholeness to a generation. Let the virtuous church arise and let her enemies be scattered.
SG:
If all you say is true…then well said victorious woman of God!!
I understand that not everyone on this blog is going to understand or appreciate the stand that we are making for our community. But there are several posts on this blog from various people thanking us for making that stand. Not everyone feels the same as Does it Matter, but we appreciate their right to say what they feel.
In the last several months, we received phone calls from various ex-leaders and members of AFC supporting the stand that we are making. Those people are going through the process of healing themselves and wanted to say thank you to us for speaking up. We would always explain to those same people that we had to sometimes come out strong due to the level of deception. These same people told us, that they didn’t think we were out of line at all. Why? One because they know us and they know our heart and motive and two because they knew what we were up against.
If you are an outsider looking in, it might be easy to not understand this debate, but those who’ve ever been apart of AFC know what is happening. Someone dared to stand up to AFC and AFC is doing what is always does…………gang up on and try to beat down that voice. For the most part they have been successful in there intimidation tactics over the years. But those days are finished.
For the general reader, Hal and I do not apologize for our stand, but we do apologize for any offense. Those that really know us, know the kind of people that we are and we are the last people that would be expected to speak up. Our community was suffering and we could no longer keep silent. After four years our silence was broken. We expected the onslaught to our character in retaliation for our stand. In contrast to the retailiation we have also received much support. Our goal in simply stated. We want the blatant disregard for the people of North County and their families to stop. No community should have to suffer at the hands of people who claim to be ministers of the gospel. In the end, we want wholeness in the house of God.
DEF aka Daniel (same avatars)
LMAO@ daniel and his claim from the ladies from church against my uso JUNIOR…. you are just itching to find something on JUNIOR… lol…. I know who Junior is and YOU aint darn near close to GUESSING who he is… LOL… Dust yourself off and try again kiddo. And his name is really Junior…. LOL…
I was never a member of AFC, but I have friends and family that were a part of AFC. I did visit AFC one time and I enjoyed it a lot. Apostle Barry Cook was on fire. I dont know if any of what is said against him is True, but its not my place to Judge… It’s between Barry and God…. But I would love to hear him preach again.
To Barry Cook and Barry Alone-
Stand up Man of God… Dont let the enemy hold you down. I believe that God will restore you and the entire AFC family… I pray for you guys everyday. Our pastor prayed for you and AFC this past week during bible Studies… DONT GIVE UP! Stay strong as the process of restoration begins. Blessings to all the ex-AFC members and current AFC members… And blessings on Barry Cook and family…
Jesus loves you!
Dear SG:
I must make comment as an outsider looking in, and as an insider looking in. What I mean by this is… your comforting message to me previously, regarding what I’ve been through, at the hand of corrupt leaders is nearly identical to what you just wrote. I am serious…identical. I am still stunned to read that this type of thing is going on elsewhere.
It’s as if you are talking directly to me. I’ve experienced and have been through everything you wrote, to the T. This is a Jezebel spirit! I say this because besides the other original culprits involved, it was PWs influencing factor in all of it, that lead others to inally gang up on me using bullying, slander, venomous and decptive tactics to try and completely destroy me.
In the field of psychology of abuse these types are known as aggressor-controllers (manipulaters). Please read the identification and tactics used, so that all may keep themselves from being deceived and harmed by these type of people and behavior (sin): (Note, I didn’t write this just copied and pasted from a web-site of PHd experts on this topic.) The book is entitled, ” In Sheep’s Clothing” by George K. Simon.
Sorry to provide such lengthy information. This should provide enough information for everyone to determine whether or not you are or have been dealing with such an individual(s), at any time in your life, in preparation for the journey ahead.
May the Lord shed his light into the places of darkness that all may recognize the truth, repent and be healed. Put on your armor of God mighty sister and servant of God, and fight the good fight of faith knowing: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
HERE’S THE GOODS:
Two Basic Types of Aggression
There are two basic types of aggression: overt-aggression and covert-aggression. When you’re determined to have something and you’re open, direct and obvious in your manner of fighting, your behavior is best labeled overtly aggressive. When you’re out to “win,” dominate or control, but are subtle, underhanded or deceptive enough to hide your true intentions, your behavior is most appropriately labeled covertly aggressive. Now, avoiding any overt display of aggression while simultaneously intimidating others into giving you what you want is a powerfully manipulative maneuver. That’s why covert-aggression is most often the vehicle for interpersonal manipulation.
The Process of Victimization
For a long time, I wondered why manipulation victims have a hard time seeing what really goes on in manipulative interactions. At first, I was tempted to fault them. But I’ve learned that they get hoodwinked for some very good reasons:
A manipulator’s aggression is not obvious. Our gut may tell us that they’re fighting for something, struggling to overcome us, gain power, or have their way, and we find ourselves unconsciously on the defensive. But because we can’t point to clear, objective evidence they’re aggressing against us, we can’t readily validate our feelings.
The tactics manipulators use can make it seem like they’re hurting, caring, defending, …, almost anything but fighting. These tactics are hard to recognize as merely clever ploys. They always make just enough sense to make a person doubt their gut hunch that they’re being taken advantage of or abused. Besides, the tactics not only make it hard for you to consciously and objectively tell that a manipulator is fighting, but they also simultaneously keep you or consciously on the defensive. These features make them highly effective psychological weapons to which anyone can be vulnerable. It’s hard to think clearly when someone has you emotionally on the run.
All of us have weaknesses and insecurities that a clever manipulator might exploit. Sometimes, we’re aware of these weaknesses and how someone might use them to take advantage of us. For example, I hear parents say things like: “Yeah, I know I have a big guilt button.” – But at the time their manipulative child is busily pushing that button, they can easily forget what’s really going on. Besides, sometimes we’re unaware of our biggest vulnerabilities. Manipulators often know us better than we know ourselves. They know what buttons to push, when and how hard. Our lack of self-knowledge sets us up to be exploited.
What our gut tells us a manipulator is like, challenges everything we’ve been taught to believe about human nature. We’ve been inundated with a psychology that has us seeing everybody, at least to some degree, as afraid, insecure or “hung-up.” So, while our gut tells us we’re dealing with a ruthless conniver, our head tells us they must be really frightened or wounded “underneath.” What’s more, most of us generally hate to think of ourselves as callous and insensitive people. We hesitate to make harsh or seemingly negative judgments about others. We want to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they don’t really harbor the malevolent intentions we suspect. We’re more apt to doubt and blame ourselves for daring to believe what our gut tells us about our manipulator’s character.
Recognizing Aggressive Agendas
Accepting how fundamental it is for people to fight for the things they want and becoming more aware of the subtle, underhanded ways people can and do fight in their daily endeavors and relationships can be very consciousness expanding. Learning to recognize an aggressive move when somebody makes one and learning how to handle oneself in any of life’s many battles, has turned out to be the most empowering experience for the manipulation victims with whom I’ve worked. It’s how they eventually freed themselves from their manipulator’s dominance and control and gained a much needed boost to their own sense of self esteem. Recognizing the inherent aggression in manipulative behavior and becoming more aware of the slick, surreptitious ways that manipulative people prefer to aggress against us is extremely important. Not recognizing and accurately labeling their subtly aggressive moves causes most people to misinterpret the behavior of manipulators and, therefore, fail to respond to them in an appropriate fashion. Recognizing when and how manipulators are fighting with covertly aggressive tactics is essential.
Defense Mechanisms and Offensive Tactics
Almost everyone is familiar with the term defense mechanism. Defense mechanisms are the “automatic” (i.e. unconscious) mental behaviors all of us employ to protect or defend ourselves from the “threat” of some emotional pain. More specifically, ego defense mechanisms are mental behaviors we use to “defend” our self-images from “invitations” to feel ashamed or guilty about something. There are many different kinds of ego defenses and the more traditional (psychodynamic) theories of personality have always tended to distinguish the various personality types, at least in part, by the types of ego defenses they prefer to use. One of the problems with psychodynamic approaches to understanding human behavior is that they tend to depict people as most always afraid of something and defending or protecting themselves in some way; even when they’re in the act of aggressing. Covert-aggressive personalities (indeed all aggressive personalities) use a variety of mental behaviors and interpersonal maneuvers to help ensure they get what they want. Some of these behaviors have been traditionally thought of as defense mechanisms.
While, from a certain perspective we might say someone engaging in these behaviors is defending their ego from any sense of shame or guilt, it’s important to realize that at the time the aggressor is exhibiting these behaviors, he is not primarily defending (i.e. attempting to prevent some internally painful event from occurring), but rather fighting to maintain position, gain power and to remove any obstacles (both internal and external) in the way of getting what he wants. Seeing the aggressor as on the defensive in any sense is a set-up for victimization. Recognizing that they’re primarily on the offensive, mentally prepares a person for the decisive action they need to take in order to avoid being run over. Therefore, I think it’s best to conceptualize many of the mental behaviors (no matter how “automatic” or “unconscious” they may appear) we often think of as defense mechanisms, as offensive power tactics, because aggressive personalities employ them primarily to manipulate, control and achieve dominance over others. Rather than trying to prevent something emotionally painful or dreadful from happening, anyone using these tactics is primarily trying to ensure that something they want to happen does indeed happen. Using the vignettes presented in the previous chapters for illustration, let’s take a look at the principal tactics covert-aggressive personalities use to ensure they get their way and maintain a position of power over their victims:
Denial – This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they’ve done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It’s a way they lie (to themselves as well as to others) about their aggressive intentions. This “Who… Me?” tactic is a way of “playing innocent,” and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It’s also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what they want to do. This denial is not the same kind of denial that a person who has just lost a loved one and can’t quite bear to accept the pain and reality of the loss engages in. That type of denial really is mostly a “defense” against unbearable hurt and anxiety. Rather, this type of denial is not primarily a “defense” but a maneuver the aggressor uses to get others to back off, back down or maybe even feel guilty themselves for insinuating he’s doing something wrong.
In the story of James the minister, James’ denial of his ruthless ambition is massive. He denied he was hurting and neglecting his family. He especially denied he was aggressively pursuing any personal agenda. On the contrary, he cast himself as the humble servant to a honorable cause. He managed to convince several people (and maybe even himself) of the nobility and purity of his intentions. But underneath it all, James knew he was being dishonest: This fact is borne out in his reaction to the threat of not getting a seat on the Elders’ Council if his marital problems worsened. When James learned he might not get what he was so aggressively pursuing after all, he had an interesting “conversion” experience. All of a sudden, he decided he could put aside the Lord’s bidding for a weekend and he might really need to devote more time to his marriage and family. James’ eyes weren’t opened by the pastor’s words. He always kept his awareness high about what might hinder or advance his cause. He knew if he didn’t tend to his marriage he might lose what he really wanted. So, he chose (at least temporarily) to alter course.
In the story of Joe and Mary, Mary confronted Joe several times about what she felt was insensitivity and ruthlessness on his part in his treatment of Lisa. Joe denied his aggressiveness. He also successfully convinced Mary that what she felt in her gut was his aggressiveness was really conscientiousness, loyalty, and passionate fatherly concern. Joe wanted a daughter who got all A’s. Mary stood in the way. Joe’s denial was the tactic he used to remove Mary as an obstacle to what he wanted.
Selective Inattention – This tactic is similar to and sometimes mistaken for denial It’s when the aggressor “plays dumb,” or acts oblivious. When engaging in this tactic, the aggressor actively ignores the warnings, pleas or wishes of others, and in general, refuses to pay attention to everything and anything that might distract them from pursuing their own agenda. Often, the aggressor knows full well what you want from him when he starts to exhibit this “I don’t want to hear it!” behavior. By using this tactic, the aggressor actively resists submitting himself to the tasks of paying attention to or refraining from the behavior you want him to change. In the story of Jenny and Amanda, Jenny tried to tell Amanda she was losing privileges because she was behaving irresponsibly. But Amanda wouldn’t listen. Her teachers tried to tell her what she needed to do to improve her grade: but she didn’t listen to them either. Actively listening to and heeding the suggestions of someone else are, among other things, acts of submission. And, as you may remember from the story, Amanda is not a girl who submits easily. Determined to let nothing stand in her way and convinced she could eventually “win” most of her power struggles with authority figures through manipulation, Amanda closed her ears. She didn’t see any need to listen. From her point of view, she would only have lost some power and control if she submitted herself to the guidance and direction offered by those whom she views as less powerful, clever and capable as herself.
Rationalization – A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It’s a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what he wants to do (quieting any qualms of conscience he might have) but also to keep others off his back. If the aggressor can convince you he’s justified in whatever he’s doing, then he’s freer to pursue his goals without interference.
In the story of little Lisa, Mary felt uneasy about the relentlessness with which Joe pursued his quest to make his daughter an obedient, all-A student once again. And, she was aware of Lisa’s expressed desire to pursue counseling as a means of addressing and perhaps solving some of her problems. Although Mary felt uneasy about Joe’s forcefulness and sensed the impact on her daughter, she allowed herself to become persuaded by his rationalizations that any concerned parent ought to know his daughter better than some relatively dispassionate outsider and that he was only doing his duty by doing as much as he possibly could to “help” his “little girl.” When a manipulator really wants to make headway with their rationalizations they’ll be sure their excuses are combined with other effective tactics. For example, when Joe was “selling” Mary on the justification for shoving his agenda down everyone’s throat he was also sending out subtle invitations for her to feel ashamed (shaming her for not being as “concerned” a parent as he was) as well as making her feel guilty (guilt-tripping her) for not being as conscientious as he was pretending to be.
Diversion – A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don’t like, he’s expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. Manipulators use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.
Rather than respond directly to the issue being addressed, Amanda diverted attention to her teacher’s and classmates’ treatment of her. Jenny allowed Amanda to steer her off track. She never got a straight answer to the question.
Another example of a diversion tactic can be found in the story of Don and Al. Al changed the subject when Don asked him if he had any plans to replace him. He focused on whether he was unhappy or not with Don’s sales performance – as if that’s what Don had asked him about in the first place. He never gave Don a straight answer to a straight question (manipulators are notorious for this). He told him what he thought would make Don feel less anxious and would steer him away from pursuing the matter any further. Al left feeling like he’d gotten an answer but all he really got was the “runaround.”
Early in the current school year, I found it necessary to address my son’s irresponsibility about doing his homework by making a rule that he bring his books home every night. One time I asked: “Did you bring your books home today?” His response was: “Guess what, Dad. Instead of tomorrow, we’re not going to have our test – until Friday.” My question was simple and direct. His answer was deliberately evasive and diversionary. He knew that if he answered the question directly and honestly, he would have received a consequence for failing to bring his books home. By using diversion (and also offering a rationalization) he was already fighting with me to avoid that consequence. Whenever someone is not responding directly to an issue, you can safely assume that for some reason, they’re trying to give you the slip.
Lying – It’s often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he’s doing it. Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don’t bear out somebody’s story. But there are also times when you don’t know you’ve been deceived until it’s too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying’ omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep’s clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.
Covert Intimidation – Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats. Guilt-tripping and shaming are two of the covert-aggressive’s favourite weapons. Both are special intimidation tactics.
Guilt-tripping – One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic, that I believe it illustrates how fundamentally different in character they are compared to other (especially neurotic) personalities. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.
Shaming – This is the technique of using subtle sarcasm and put-downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, defer to them. It’s an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance.
When Joe loudly proclaimed any “good” parent would do just as he was doing to help Lisa, he subtly implied Mary would be a “bad” parent if she didn’t attempt to do the same. He “invited” her to feel ashamed of herself. The tactic was effective. Mary eventually felt ashamed for taking a position that made it appear she didn’t care enough about her own daughter. Even more doubtful of her worth as a person and a parent, Mary deferred to Joe, thus enabling him to rein a position of dominance over her. Covert-aggressives are expert at using shaming tactics in the most subtle ways. Sometimes it can just be in the glances they give or the tone of voice they use. Using rhetorical comments, subtle sarcasm and other techniques, they can invite you to feel ashamed of yourself for even daring to challenge them. Joe tried to shame Mary when I considered accepting the educational assessment performed by Lisa’s school. He said something like: “I’m not sure what kind of doctor you are or just what kind of credentials you have, but I’m sure you’d agree that a youngster’s grades wouldn’t slip as much as Lisa’s for no reason. You couldn’t be entirely certain she didn’t have a learning disability unless you did some testing, could you?’ With those words, he “invited” Mary to feel ashamed of herself for not at least considering doing just as he asked. If Mary didn’t have a suspicion about what he was up to, she might have accepted this invitation without a second thought.
Playing the Victim Role – This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstances or someone else’s behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and less hostile personalities usually can’t stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you’re suffering in some way, and they’ll try to relieve your distress.
In the story of Amanda and Jenny, Amanda was good at playing the victim role too. She had her mother believing that she (Amanda) was the victim of extremely unfair treatment and the target of unwarranted hostility. I remember Jenny telling me: “Sometimes I think Amanda’s wrong when she says her teacher hates her and I hate her. But what if that’s what she really believes? Can I afford to be so firm with her if she believes in her heart that I hate her?” I remember telling Jenny: “Whether Amanda has come to believe her own distortions is almost irrelevant. She manipulates you because you believe that she believes it and allow that supposed belief to serve as an excuse for her undisciplined aggression.”
Vilifying the Victim – This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive.
Returning again to the story of Jenny and Amanda, when Amanda accuses her mother of “hating” her and “always saying mean things” to her, she not only invites Jenny to feel the “bully,” but simultaneously succeeds in “bullying” Jenny into backing off. More than any other, the tactic of vilifying the victim is a powerful means of putting someone unconsciously on the defensive while simultaneously masking the aggressive intent and behavior of the person using the tactic.
Playing the Servant Role – Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It’s a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else’s behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others. In the story of James (the minister) and Sean, James appeared to many to be the tireless servant. He attended more activities than he needed to attend and did so eagerly. But if devoted service to those who needed him was his aim, how does one explain the degree to which James habitually neglected his family? As an aggressive personality, James submits himself to no one. The only master he serves is his own ambition. Not only was playing the servant role an effective tactic for James, but also it’s the cornerstone upon which corrupt ministerial empires of all types are built. A good example comes to mind in the recent true story of a well-known tele-evangelist who locked himself up in a room in a purported display of “obedience” and “service” to God. He even portrayed himself’ a willing sacrificial lamb who was prepared to be “taken by God” if he didn’t do the Almighty’s bidding and raise eight million dollars. He claimed he was a humble servant, merely heeding the Lord’s will. He was really fighting to save his substantial material empire.
Another recent scandal involving a tele-evangelist resulted in his church’s governance body censuring him for one year. But he told his congregation he couldn’t stop his ministry because he had to be faithful to the Lord’s will (God supposedly talked to him and told him not to quit). This minister was clearly being defiant of his church’s established authority. Yet, he presented himself as a person being humbly submissive to the “highest” authority. One hallmark characteristic of covert-aggressive personalities is loudly professing subservience while fighting for dominance.
Seduction – Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty. Covert-aggressives are also particularly aware that people who are to some extent emotionally needy and dependent (and that includes most people who aren’t character-disordered) want approval, reassurance, and a sense of being valued and needed more than anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be a manipulator’s ticket to incredible power over others. Shady “gurus” like Jim Jones and David Koresh seemed to have refined this tactic to an art. In the story of Al and Don, Al is the consummate seducer. He melts any resistance you might have to giving him your loyalty and confidence. He does this by giving you what he knows you need most. He knows you want to feel valued and important. So, he often tells you that you are. You don’t find out how unimportant you really are to him until you turn out to be in his way.
Projecting the blame (blaming others) – Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they’re expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Minimization – This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor is attempting to assert that his abusive behavior isn’t really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It’s the aggressor’s attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.
I’ve presented the principal tactics that covert-aggressives use to manipulate and control others. They are not always easy to recognize. Although all aggressive personalities tend to use these tactics, covert-aggressives generally use them slickly, subtly and adeptly. Anyone dealing with a covertly aggressive person will need to heighten gut-level sensitivity to the use of these tactics if they’re to avoid being taken in by them.
BY George K. Simon
I was at AFC on Sunday.
It seems to me that despite of all the things a very small few handful have been saying on this blog negatively…AFC is going on!
I saw the Guinns at the service – they looked in my view hard and stoic but people around them were warm and welcoming. They used the same old tired tricks – come in and try to act like you are someone important and special. Don’t respond, don’t particpate….look mean – then they have the audacity to try to set it up like someone needs their approval – WE DON’T!!! You don’t even have to take my word for it – AFC often does recaps of the service so you will be able to see how they looked for youselves. It was a sad…sad portrayal of Christianity. They even got a welcome from some leaders of AFC from the pulpit. Don’t sound like an afraid AFC leadership to me – apparently those leaders are happy, full of love and moving forward!
There were quite a few formers there that was equally embraced and being restored back into fellowship. Like it our not it is happening! If there whole argument was built on the fact that because BC or whoever did something wrong as the reason the church was going down then all of these Godly signs and wonders, growth and progression proves that something has changed. If you don’t believe me go and check out AFC website and you will hear the people testify for themselves!! Better yet, visit the church yourself. (It is on 2904 MacDonald Street, Oceanside, CA 92056 – services are Sunday at 10am, Thursday at 7:00pm). But come early on Sunday because seats are filling up fast.
I feel bad for the Guinn’s who like “Truth Be Told” said,” try to use intimidation tactics to set themselves up in a position of power – unsuccessfully. They tried to position themselves as the voice, or gatekeepers of this area but no legitimate church has endorsed, supported or listened to them. In fact, I don’t know of any minister, pastor or church in North County that views them as a legitimate voice or have authorized them to do what they are doing. Nor do many churches actually want them as members as they are (especially after they find out from other pastors how they really are). Open up your yellow pages and call the churches, ask around!!! It’s interesting that no one thought about this in the beginning.
I feel bad for all those who jumped on their bandwagon. Thus are the results of presumption and pride.
From what I understand, the Guinn’s have never been able to submit to a leadership or church in this county. They always thought they knew best (excuse me – Suzanne mostly). Hal was always the one sent like a henchman to try to intimidate and then she would hide behind him in a false pretense of submission. (In one of their blogs they talked about how they went in AFC and confronted BC – what they didn’t say is all he did was stand in the back stoic – BC didn’t even see him and the ushers (because he would not take a seat and was not being agreeable asked him to leave) – Suzanne, of course, was hiding…waiting in the car). This was hardly the strong stand for righteousness they were speaking of. These type of intimidation tactics (as the article above beatifully illustates) is nothing new – it is classic Jezebel and Ahab!
Then they tried to creat a hoax by saying that the telephone number at AFC didn’t work and that they were not in the yellow pages and that 411 didn’t have their number. So I tried it, I called the number 760-722-7000 and the staff answered (more than once by the way) – They also have a nice anwering system. I called 411 and they gave me AFC’s phone number and it was correct. Finally, the yellow pages (August 2007 to 2008) issue – AFC’s information is there. Trying to overshadow someone else’s true legitimacy so they can try to gain significance. Again, their mode of operation – intimidation, assumption, miscommuication and deception. WE ARE NOT BUYING!!!
In these blogs the set oversight of AFC, Ron Satrape, addressed Suzanne and directly spoke about him being the oversight for the church. How he was directing BC and the church. The Guinns responded back by questioning a legitaimate, seasoned and well backed up authority. You can read Jude, and find out what the Bible speaks about those who questioned authority. You can see who Ron Satrape is, just look him up on the web and his work will speak for itself. You can also go on You Tube and look under Ambassador Family Church and see what he said in his own words.
BY THE WAY….
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
Sometimes, as Christians, we forget where we have come from.
Although, we know that there is a few very small handful of people who listen to the Guinn’s it is amazing that anyone does at all.
GUINN’S – You obviously have a gift for gab – you should use it to get people saved or something constructive. Like David, said you might find that the ditch you digged for others, you yourself may fall in. YOUR TIME IS UP!!!!
To Goin on!–
This is not a place for you to preach… I think Barry Cook would be disappointed that a lot of us are in here even wasting time to respond to this nonsense… Look at you, almost a whole chapter for a book! I think you have a lot of great things to say, but this is not the time and place…. Besides, I wouldn’t even waste the time and energy… I will keep praying for the AFC family and Barry Cook… We should be in here praying and/or giving praise reports about AFC and how they are doing, because I would like for Abe- the young gentleman that was sharing a lot of the good things about AFC to continue on about all the positive stuff that’s going on… Not all this non sense… You just have to learn how to Tune out the negativity… But if we fight it- we are just adding fuel to the fire. If you love the Lord, and Loves the church – please dont participate in this. Because no matter what you say, it will not be accepted from others…. Let God be the Judge of them… We should use this Blog to speak positive things about the church and continue to life Apostle Barry Cook….
God Bless everyone that is blogging on here, no matter if we stand on different grounds- we sure do serve the same God!
Does anyone know if Charlie is still a part of the AFC family? He was really nice to me and my family when we visited a long time ago. Charlie man- whereever you at, I know you will be doing God’s work. God Bless man! From one uso to another.
Bryan Faletaua
I was at AFC on Sunday.
It seems to me that despite of all the things a very small few handful have been saying on this blog negatively…AFC is going on!
I saw the Guinns at the service – they looked in my view hard and stoic but people around them were warm and welcoming. They used the same old tired tricks – come in and try to act like you are someone important and special. Don’t respond, don’t particpate….look mean – then they have the audacity to try to set it up like someone needs their approval – WE DON’T!!! You don’t even have to take my word for it – AFC often does recaps of the service so you will be able to see how they looked for youselves. It was a sad…sad portrayal of Christianity. They even got a welcome from some leaders of AFC from the pulpit. Don’t sound like an afraid AFC leadership to me – apparently those leaders are happy, full of love and moving forward!
There were quite a few formers there that was equally embraced and being restored back into fellowship. Like it our not it is happening! If there whole argument was built on the fact that because BC or whoever did something wrong as the reason the church was going down then all of these Godly signs and wonders, growth and progression proves that something has changed. If you don’t believe me go and check out AFC website and you will hear the people testify for themselves!! Better yet, visit the church yourself. (It is on 2904 MacDonald Street, Oceanside, CA 92056 – services are Sunday at 10am, Thursday at 7:00pm). But come early on Sunday because seats are filling up fast.
I feel bad for the Guinn’s who like “Truth Be Told” said,” try to use intimidation tactics to set themselves up in a position of power – unsuccessfully. They tried to position themselves as the voice, or gatekeepers of this area but no legitimate church has endorsed, supported or listened to them. In fact, I don’t know of any minister, pastor or church in North County that views them as a legitimate voice or have authorized them to do what they are doing. Nor do many churches actually want them as members as they are (especially after they find out from other pastors how they really are). Open up your yellow pages and call the churches, ask around!!! It’s interesting that no one thought about this in the beginning.
I feel bad for all those who jumped on their bandwagon. Thus are the results of presumption and pride.
From what I understand, the Guinn’s have never been able to submit to a leadership or church in this county. They always thought they knew best (excuse me – Suzanne mostly). Hal was always the one sent like a henchman to try to intimidate and then she would hide behind him in a false pretense of submission. (In one of their blogs they talked about how they went in AFC and confronted BC – what they didn’t say is all he did was stand in the back stoic – BC didn’t even see him and the ushers (because he would not take a seat and was not being agreeable asked him to leave) – Suzanne, of course, was hiding…waiting in the car). This was hardly the strong stand for righteousness they were speaking of. These type of intimidation tactics (as the article above beatifully illustates) is nothing new – it is classic Jezebel and Ahab!
Then they tried to creat a hoax by saying that the telephone number at AFC didn’t work and that they were not in the yellow pages and that 411 didn’t have their number. So I tried it, I called the number 760-722-7000 and the staff answered (more than once by the way) – They also have a nice anwering system. I called 411 and they gave me AFC’s phone number and it was correct. Finally, the yellow pages (August 2007 to 200 issue – AFC’s information is there. Trying to overshadow someone else’s true legitimacy so they can try to gain significance. Again, their mode of operation – intimidation, assumption, miscommuication and deception. WE ARE NOT BUYING!!!
In these blogs the set oversight of AFC, Ron Satrape, addressed Suzanne and directly spoke about him being the oversight for the church. How he was directing BC and the church. The Guinns responded back by questioning a legitaimate, seasoned and well backed up authority. You can read Jude, and find out what the Bible speaks about those who questioned authority. You can see who Ron Satrape is, just look him up on the web and his work will speak for itself. You can also go on You Tube and look under Ambassador Family Church and see what he said in his own words.
BY THE WAY….
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
Sometimes, as Christians, we forget where we have come from.
Although, we know that there is a few very small handful of people who listen to the Guinn’s it is amazing that anyone does at all.
GUINN’S – You obviously have a gift for gab – you should use it to get people saved or something constructive. Like David, said you might find that the ditch you digged for others, you yourself may fall in. YOUR TIME IS UP!!!!
To Truth Be Told. Exactly!! This is the way AFC has always treated people who do not conform to their rule/lording over people.
Just keep listening to what they post. Sound familiar? And they haven’t even got started yet. The seething hatred for real fidelity in covenant will keep spewing forth. Sounds like the prophets of Baal. The difference is we are not running away…..therefore they call us stoic…..
Anyway, I’ll be working out of town all weekend so I won’t have time to blog, but I can be reached anytime at 760.622.9976.
God bless the household of God.
Jesus is Lord!!!
Goin On!–
Man, you can write a book on Suzanne and Hal’s bloggin days… This is the same attitude/treatment we get when we try to ask questions… That is one thing that hasnt change… I think if you work on it, a lot more people might think of coming back (example: me)
And by the way, I would love to see pictures showing that the seats in your new location gets filled up quickly every Sunday… Until I see it, I’ll believe it- but for now, you are all just talk…
And for the AFC phone number– Yeah, you are a little too late… Because once it was addressed in here, they started to work on that… I think it’s a great thing, but at one point I was calling and never got a response… Also, that phone was disconnected at another point, but I guess the phone bill finally got paid…. I even have emails requesting prayer to Carlton and never got a response (this was before I left AFC)… I have 4 prayer requests that were sent a long time ago and still have copies… Please save your excuses that the phone line works, and they have great attitude over the phone… This is only because we addressed it… But if we hadn’t, it would’ve been the same thing up to now…
Also- keep your posts short…they are too darn long… Gosh! just get to the point.
BRYAN-
hey you- how are the kids doing? Are you guys still in Carlsbad or did you move to your house by the beach for the summer? Let me know- me, junior and moms would love to come by and see the kids… Kisses and hugs for your little ones… Call you later… have a great day
Just what I thought. Don’t acknowledge the truth or answer the questions. Just like the article above play the victim and then act like everyone is is coming to get you….
I can understand why the Guinn’s would be afraid to talk about this truth and answer these questions. But, here we go again. Let’s see if they can answer the question. THEY CAN DISH IT OUT BUT NOT TAKE IT.
……………………………………………………………………………………….
I was at AFC on Sunday.
It seems to me that despite of all the things a very small few handful have been saying on this blog negatively…AFC is going on!
I saw the Guinns at the service – they looked in my view hard and stoic but people around them were warm and welcoming. They used the same old tired tricks – come in and try to act like you are someone important and special. Don’t respond, don’t particpate….look mean – then they have the audacity to try to set it up like someone needs their approval – WE DON’T!!! You don’t even have to take my word for it – AFC often does recaps of the service so you will be able to see how they looked for youselves. It was a sad…sad portrayal of Christianity. They even got a welcome from some leaders of AFC from the pulpit. Don’t sound like an afraid AFC leadership to me – apparently those leaders are happy, full of love and moving forward!
There were quite a few formers there that was equally embraced and being restored back into fellowship. Like it our not it is happening! If there whole argument was built on the fact that because BC or whoever did something wrong as the reason the church was going down then all of these Godly signs and wonders, growth and progression proves that something has changed. If you don’t believe me go and check out AFC website and you will hear the people testify for themselves!! Better yet, visit the church yourself. (It is on 2904 MacDonald Street, Oceanside, CA 92056 – services are Sunday at 10am, Thursday at 7:00pm). But come early on Sunday because seats are filling up fast.
I feel bad for the Guinn’s who like “Truth Be Told” said,” try to use intimidation tactics to set themselves up in a position of power – unsuccessfully. They tried to position themselves as the voice, or gatekeepers of this area but no legitimate church has endorsed, supported or listened to them. In fact, I don’t know of any minister, pastor or church in North County that views them as a legitimate voice or have authorized them to do what they are doing. Nor do many churches actually want them as members as they are (especially after they find out from other pastors how they really are). Open up your yellow pages and call the churches, ask around!!! It’s interesting that no one thought about this in the beginning.
I feel bad for all those who jumped on their bandwagon. Thus are the results of presumption and pride.
From what I understand, the Guinn’s have never been able to submit to a leadership or church in this county. They always thought they knew best (excuse me – Suzanne mostly). Hal was always the one sent like a henchman to try to intimidate and then she would hide behind him in a false pretense of submission. (In one of their blogs they talked about how they went in AFC and confronted BC – what they didn’t say is all he did was stand in the back stoic – BC didn’t even see him and the ushers (because he would not take a seat and was not being agreeable asked him to leave) – Suzanne, of course, was hiding…waiting in the car). This was hardly the strong stand for righteousness they were speaking of. These type of intimidation tactics (as the article above beatifully illustates) is nothing new – it is classic Jezebel and Ahab!
Then they tried to creat a hoax by saying that the telephone number at AFC didn’t work and that they were not in the yellow pages and that 411 didn’t have their number. So I tried it, I called the number 760-722-7000 and the staff answered (more than once by the way) – They also have a nice anwering system. I called 411 and they gave me AFC’s phone number and it was correct. Finally, the yellow pages (August 2007 to 200 issue – AFC’s information is there. Trying to overshadow someone else’s true legitimacy so they can try to gain significance. Again, their mode of operation – intimidation, assumption, miscommuication and deception. WE ARE NOT BUYING!!!
In these blogs the set oversight of AFC, Ron Satrape, addressed Suzanne and directly spoke about him being the oversight for the church. How he was directing BC and the church. The Guinns responded back by questioning a legitaimate, seasoned and well backed up authority. You can read Jude, and find out what the Bible speaks about those who questioned authority. You can see who Ron Satrape is, just look him up on the web and his work will speak for itself. You can also go on You Tube and look under Ambassador Family Church and see what he said in his own words.
BY THE WAY….
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
Sometimes, as Christians, we forget where we have come from.
Although, we know that there is a few very small handful of people who listen to the Guinn’s it is amazing that anyone does at all.
GUINN’S – You obviously have a gift for gab – you should use it to get people saved or something constructive. Like David, said you might find that the ditch you digged for others, you yourself may fall in. YOUR TIME IS UP!!!!
Hey Guys!
Suzanne & Hal are both angry and bitter people.
They would never own up to their own mistakes, admit someone else was right or answer reasonable questions. It is a lot easier to point the gun.
Obviously, the tables have turned and they are afraid. This proves that they are on their way down!
Afraid to answer the questions? please! If you read the blog you will see that all your questions were already addressed. You guys just keep coming back with the same old stuff and it doesn’t change a thing. Anyway, in your questions all you’re doing is avoiding the questions that are being asked of you. After eight months, this is your response???? Figures. Exactly what people expected you to say even though we hoped that you would’ve changed by now. Thanks for clarifying that you have not.
But we don’t hate you though. Actually, we love you very much.
Okay, I’m off on my working weekend and won’t be back until late Sunday night. I’ll try to check in on the blog. If all I see is more denial and retaliation from AFC, there will be no reason for me to respond again to the same old same old. If you need more specific information, you know how to contact me. Hal and I will be happy to meet with you anytime to discuss the real issues. When you’re ready to talk in a civil tongue, let us know. Truly and sincerely, God bless you!
Suzanne,
Glad to hear that you have a job. That should give you energies a constructive outlet…we hope.
But, just as expected, don’t answer the questions. YOU JUST CANT DO IT. Now that is the epitomy of hypocrisy…Defer, block, etc. but DO NOT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. Obviously, by how you did respond you think I am someone that I am not – again nice try.
No reason to meet with you. You guys are afraid to answer simple questions. Don’t need to meet with you…I just call more churches for specifics and post more.
Anyway, if you dare, here is the simple truth and simple questions……
………………………………………………………………………………………
I was at AFC on Sunday.
It seems to me that despite of all the things a very small few handful have been saying on this blog negatively…AFC is going on!
I saw the Guinns at the service – they looked in my view hard and stoic but people around them were warm and welcoming. They used the same old tired tricks – come in and try to act like you are someone important and special. Don’t respond, don’t particpate….look mean – then they have the audacity to try to set it up like someone needs their approval – WE DON’T!!! You don’t even have to take my word for it – AFC often does recaps of the service so you will be able to see how they looked for youselves. It was a sad…sad portrayal of Christianity. They even got a welcome from some leaders of AFC from the pulpit. Don’t sound like an afraid AFC leadership to me – apparently those leaders are happy, full of love and moving forward!
There were quite a few formers there that was equally embraced and being restored back into fellowship. Like it our not it is happening! If there whole argument was built on the fact that because BC or whoever did something wrong as the reason the church was going down then all of these Godly signs and wonders, growth and progression proves that something has changed. If you don’t believe me go and check out AFC website and you will hear the people testify for themselves!! Better yet, visit the church yourself. (It is on 2904 MacDonald Street, Oceanside, CA 92056 – services are Sunday at 10am, Thursday at 7:00pm). But come early on Sunday because seats are filling up fast.
I feel bad for the Guinn’s who like “Truth Be Told” said,” try to use intimidation tactics to set themselves up in a position of power – unsuccessfully. They tried to position themselves as the voice, or gatekeepers of this area but no legitimate church has endorsed, supported or listened to them. In fact, I don’t know of any minister, pastor or church in North County that views them as a legitimate voice or have authorized them to do what they are doing. Nor do many churches actually want them as members as they are (especially after they find out from other pastors how they really are). Open up your yellow pages and call the churches, ask around!!! It’s interesting that no one thought about this in the beginning.
I feel bad for all those who jumped on their bandwagon. Thus are the results of presumption and pride.
From what I understand, the Guinn’s have never been able to submit to a leadership or church in this county. They always thought they knew best (excuse me – Suzanne mostly). Hal was always the one sent like a henchman to try to intimidate and then she would hide behind him in a false pretense of submission. (In one of their blogs they talked about how they went in AFC and confronted BC – what they didn’t say is all he did was stand in the back stoic – BC didn’t even see him and the ushers (because he would not take a seat and was not being agreeable asked him to leave) – Suzanne, of course, was hiding…waiting in the car). This was hardly the strong stand for righteousness they were speaking of. These type of intimidation tactics (as the article above beatifully illustates) is nothing new – it is classic Jezebel and Ahab!
Then they tried to creat a hoax by saying that the telephone number at AFC didn’t work and that they were not in the yellow pages and that 411 didn’t have their number. So I tried it, I called the number 760-722-7000 and the staff answered (more than once by the way) – They also have a nice anwering system. I called 411 and they gave me AFC’s phone number and it was correct. Finally, the yellow pages (August 2007 to 200 issue – AFC’s information is there. Trying to overshadow someone else’s true legitimacy so they can try to gain significance. Again, their mode of operation – intimidation, assumption, miscommuication and deception. WE ARE NOT BUYING!!!
In these blogs the set oversight of AFC, Ron Satrape, addressed Suzanne and directly spoke about him being the oversight for the church. How he was directing BC and the church. The Guinns responded back by questioning a legitaimate, seasoned and well backed up authority. You can read Jude, and find out what the Bible speaks about those who questioned authority. You can see who Ron Satrape is, just look him up on the web and his work will speak for itself. You can also go on You Tube and look under Ambassador Family Church and see what he said in his own words.
BY THE WAY….
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
Sometimes, as Christians, we forget where we have come from.
Although, we know that there is a few very small handful of people who listen to the Guinn’s it is amazing that anyone does at all.
GUINN’S – You obviously have a gift for gab – you should use it to get people saved or something constructive. Like David, said you might find that the ditch you digged for others, you yourself may fall in. YOUR TIME IS UP!!!!
Hey, even if all the things about her are absolutely true. There is restoration for her too!
All of this hostility because your Apostle, which stands for one who receives the instructions of God, to edify his church, teaching them how to live has divorced his wife, fallen into adultery and may have fathered an illegitimate child, before the entire congregation and the entire community? Are you really tryingn to minimize this in an attempt to play it down or brush it off. If you loved your so-called Apostle you would hold him accountable so that he may repent and be forgiven lest he face serious judgment for misrepresenting Father God’s leadership and to make sure he soul is saved.
I know it’sn hard to face and hear, but the greater condmenation is upon him who is mandated to uphold the principles of the faith, no matter how much you want to tell yourselves it’s no big deal. Bringing attention to an extremely immoral issue, that requires repentance by confessing the sin to the church, is not a option, but a requirement of a true man of God.
No matter what…let the church continue to be blessed without him but don’t continue to reveal your character by defaming another member because they do not approve of or agree with the godlessness of an appointed leader. It is not only very telling of you as a member of this church, but it also demonstrates clearly the behavior that has been cited in previous comments.
Stand true and faithful in the things of God, and let no man speak evil of you by speaking evil of another, without just cause.
She never answered the questions previously, its just her once again running away from reality because she is being exposed. She stated in an earlier post that she didn’t want to tell anyone what church she went to…maybe because she doesn’t have one…I think I should copy all of her posts and mail it to every church in North County saying “watch out for the wolves!”
The real issues are that you are a bitter woman, and you speak death. The reality is, AFC has already dealt with the issues, if you had stayed long enough and supported the “church” that obviously is not perfect, you would have had access to that information and witnessed for yourself the restoration. Now that you no longer attend, why does anyone have to tell you what you want to hear? I know, I know…you didn’t want to support BC…yawn…be careful that your self righteousness hasn’t taken you off of God’s purpose. Is it God speaking to you or that little voice called pride?
Your mind games of manipulative tactics are tired and boring. It’s ok for you to put others on blast but the moment someone does it to you you run and hide like a coward. Your integrity is nonexistent, and you have no authority over the people you claim need your approval to move forward.
Where is your fruit?
How many souls have you saved?
What good things is your son doing behind bars?
What ministries are you involved with?
Who do you disciple?
What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
There is restoration for you too…yes, but don’t demand the fruit of others when no one can see the fruit from you…..
YOUR TIME IS UP ALRIGHT!
To – To Face the Truth, Are you saying that the Apostle has in fact done these things? Because I am saying he has not. Its a fabricated lie from the enemy. Just because someone says it happened doesn’t make it true. There are NO FACTS to support this claim. The current Apostle in leadership has already asked for proof, and there is none. Don’t assume you know what is happening. There aren’t 600 people on here demanding answers, its a handful of people who have bought into the deception of the devil.
“Stand true and faithful in the things of God, and let no man speak evil of you by speaking evil of another, without just cause.”
There is no just cause for the accusations against this church. And if you go back read SG’s posts you can see for yourself her cursing at others and demeaning others by manipulative tactics. Go ahead, take a day and read through her responses. She’s not as holy and righteous and it may seem.
Watch the wolves…you are so right.
Those are great questions…..be assured she can dish it but not take it. She will not answer them.
This is how she works….she make accusations (and make them sound like the gospel truth, of course)…
….then she intimidates those who try to bring truth and restoration through shame…
…then she tries to set herself up (unsuccessfully) as the sole voice of restoration…
….then she says that all these people have come to her even former member (although those supposed persons have never been verified)….
….then she stirs up Hal to say something as she has done in the past as a false voice of righteousness…
….then when someone tries to again tell her the truth and highlight her demonic tactics she plays the poor little victim…while hiding the all the people she have assassinated with her words…EVERYONE KNOWS SHE IS A LIAR!!!
Revelation 19:1-4
After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God!2 “For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.”3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!”4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!”
SHE HAS FALLEN!!!!!!!
Where does it say to repent to man, or to the church? Even if all this was true about him, I don’t see that anywhere. I don’t even go there anymore and I don’t care what he’s done or not done. I know that when I talk to people who go there, they are exited about what God’s doing. They’re happy and exited about God. Some are friends and have a genuine relationship with Christ. People can be so harsh and cruel to put these people through all of this on the pretense of calling for repentance and freeing the church of some sort of wrong character. You say that their character is being revealed and you’re right. Their character shows me that they love the man of God regardless of what he’s gone through. Their character shows me that they can foregive and move forward. They’ve even had people on here acting with more integrity than their accusers. I’ve spoken with some of them and they only choose to love God and God’s people. Go back and read. When accusations are made against you and your family, woudn’t you stand up for what you believe in? That’s all I see them doing. It’s incredible how much you’re limiting God. It’s incredible that you presume to think the man hasn’t repented of anything he has done to hurt his church and his people. You’re limiting God by saying that He can’t still use a church for good, even when evidence has shown that He is still using the church. You’re limiting God by presuming that the people of this church aren’t genuine in their pursuit of God. You’re limiting God to think that you need to be the one’s to speak out against this church. I’m sorry but who’s doing more defamations? You all assume that anybody that goes there is evil or wrong. Yeah, yeah, we love you guys more than you know. Then show love. Love woudn’t kcik people when they’re down. Love woud pray for them during what they’ve gone through. Love woud encourage. Love woud lift up. Love woud foregive, regardless of how bad you think they are. Show me where you’ve foregiven. Show me where you’ve moved on. Show me that you’re really in a better place now. I know it’s hard to hear these things but get over it. I think that Going On brought up some great points. Where do you all go to church? When you can validate you’re character to the public, then maybe you have some validity. But, there’s been no validation. We still don’t know where 90% of the people on here go to church. How many of you are willing to invite people to your church? I’ve only seen one person on here do it. I’m not talking about inviting them to church or a church but your church. Speaking evil without just cause. Where does it even say to speak evil of others. I think I read “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, THINKS NO EVIL;” oh wait, that scripture goes on quite a bit further. Yeah, yeah, the man is wrong. He must repent. The church is stuck if he doesn’t. Again, limiting God. Show me that one in the bible. So what’s the real issue. I know there’s some out there that are genuinely hurt but let’s see, if they walked in this love, foregave, truely foregave, then they woudn’t need this “call to repentance”. Because they woudn’t even care, they woud have moved on and let go of the past. They woud truely leave it in God’s hands instead trying to be God’s crusaders with no validity of their own. Yeah, yeah, the people I talk to appreciate my voice. And I appreciate the voice of those from this church that have spoken in love and been attacked, condemned, manipulated, etc. I assure you there are others who appreciate it too. So what!! Hey people who believe in this church, call around and see if you can find out where they go to church. Call those “mutual” friends because they’re out there.
You’re validity is in question here. You say you answered but did not. We don’t know where you go to church. We don’t know who your pastor is. We don’t know gives you authority to call for “the virtuous church of North County to arise”. We don’t know who you have on your side. We don’t know what kind of leadership role you play in your church to validate your attacks on another church’s leadership. We don’t know the character of your church. We don’t know who authorized you to attack another church in this region. Your integrity is in question. You are challenged now to validate yourselves. Don’t say people who know us because you’re not talking to them. You’re talking to this community. This community demands that you speak up and tell us for yourself where you have this authority. I hear you saying “Christ and the Church are our authority.” Okay, you may have Christ but what church do you have? Tell us! Your character is in question here. Ignore this and just like Going On, I will repeat myself. You talk about character but do not show real character. Anybody can quote books and quotes and whatever but when you speak for yourself, your heart is really shown. Come on, let’s see if you’re as good as you say you are. Show us who you are accountable to, really. Don’t ignore, fluff up, pretend, prove yourselves. By the way, you talk about his repentance, you’ve never repented to these people who came on here and told you that they knew you said evil things about them when they were going to the church with you. Go back and read if you don’t remember. I think it was something about these people posting were people from the youth group. You even discredited them here but never repented for what they had against you. People, the writings on the wall. Word manipulation is really good but get around the fluffy words and see for yourselves. Really. There, I said it. Grow up or move out. Those are YOUR options.
Now the true voices in North County are being heard.
“Where” you hit a homerun on this one.
Everyone is talking about the fall of this type of unauthorized, unbiblical, slanderous and Jezebelic communications the Guinn’s have been peddling.
AND NOW THE WHOLE COUNTY CAN SEE THAT THEIR REIGN OF TERROR IS OVER!!!
2 Kings 9:33-37
33 Then he said, “Throw her down.” So they threw her down, and some of her blood spattered on the wall and on the horses; and he trampled her underfoot.34 And when he had gone in, he ate and drank. Then he said, “Go now, see to this accursed woman, and bury her, for she was a king’s daughter.”35 So they went to bury her, but they found no more of her than the skull and the feet and the palms of her hands.36 Therefore they came back and told him. And he said, “This is the word of the Lord, which He spoke by His servant Elijah the Tishbite, saying, ‘On the plot of ground at Jezreel dogs shall eat the flesh of Jezebel;37 ‘and the corpse of Jezebel shall be as refuse on the surface of the field, in the plot at Jezreel, so that they shall not say, “Here lies Jezebel.” ’ ”
If you are still bound by the web of lies and cancerous deceiption this woman have been spinning…..remember, you can be free….THROW HER DOWN!!!!!
Honestly,
I feel sorry for all those who got caught up in the spiritual hype from the Guinn’s.
They took advantage of hurting and bruised people to forward their own cause, offense and agenda.
That’s the type of spiritual abuse that God takes personally. They should be careful…God is not mocked.
As a woman of God, I pray true healing and connection to God and others. I pray those who where misguided by the Guinn’s will get connected to a strong church and leadership.
Just want to say, it’s amazing how many people have come on here lately.
Susanne, you may not have liked the things that Daniel and I said and I will be the first to say that we did not say them “in love” cause the truth is I am not feeling it. Yeah, that’s wrong but that’s the honest truth. I’m just not perfect I guess! I can admit that though and all anyone else here is asking is for you to get that. People are not perfect.
I’m not taking back anything I said cause I know what I said was true. I know it for a fact. I have no problem with you going to Kenny with it either. You twisted what we wrote in regards to Kenny and made it seem like we were coming against HIM, we were not, we were coming against YOU and calling you out for the things you have done. At first you denied it, then you said Kenny lied to us, which is it? Get your story straight. I wasn’t on here calling you an “idiot” and “insignificant” and a “punk” like you did to my husband and I. That right there tells me where you really stand.
Most everyone on here lately makes excellent points. Where do you go to church? Daniel and I may be the lowest of the low as you put it but at least we go to church and pray and read our word…God is doing work in us. I wouldn’t expect it to be evident to you though since you are not the type to view “good” in others, just the negative.
And please, can we not get your phone number again? Can you address the community publicly? You demand so much for AFC to do it, why can’t you?
We don’t want a phone number, we want ANSWERS!
Who are you accountable to?
What church leadership authorized you to take on the crusade to blast AFC? Or is this on your own accord?
Who are all these people that you claim have come to you?
Let’s see your fruit….
No one cares that you announce where you are having dinner, are you looking for publicity? No more phone number, “call me” statements… no more “this is typical of AFC with no leadership”… no more “we want to see the church arise”… no more “we are experiencing an open heaven”…no more”we really love the people at AFC” then turn around and attack with no love cursing all in the name of God… NO MORE HIDING BEHIND AN OVERLY RIGHTEOUS ATTITUDE.
I don’t know who these Guinn’s are but this is a classic sign of what happens to those who hide behind self-righteousness. Self rigtheous people always project on others and are blinded to they own faults. Good luck on them answering those questions….the self righteous never do completely.
It sounds like the people of God in that area are finally seeing through religious manipulation. Glory to God!
I see now, AFC’s Thursday Night Service consisted of let’s all get togother and see how many of us can bombard the Blog with emails discrediting the Guinns. It takes the entire Congregations( although it’s not many these days) to battle this one woman. I say – Susanne keep on keeping on. I awaiting the day when the truth will be told.
To I see know… first of all its, now, not know… and second, had you attended service on Thursday like the rest of us you would then see how ridiculous your statement just was…
Who needs to discredit them? They do a good job on their own, some of us just want to get some answers.
No degree of deterrence or cynicism can take away from the fact of that woman’s shame…Her days of intimidation, unauthorized rantings, manipulation, self-righteousness are OVER!!!
Not to mention she still have yet to answer the questions from the peoples of this region…SHE CAN’T!
EVERYONE CAN SEE HER SHAMEFUL DEMISE!
Just a quick recap of the QUESTIONS that have come from several different Godly people expressed in variety of way (see blogs for reference):
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
Apparently, the people of this county is NOT BUYING the poor little SELF-RIGHTOEUS Suzanne story.
SHE HAS FALLEN!!!
To She has fallen:
Well you are correct, I did spell “now” as know……Nontheless, I see your tactic-continue to post that same email speaking of Susanne’s demise so that is last email on the blog. To bad you can’t point our /see the error(s) of your Apostle so rapidly
I learned it from her – she is the queen of this. You should check the blogs of the one you defend….
Still the QUESTIONS ARE THE SAME!!!!!
……………………………………………………………………….
No degree of deterrence or cynicism can take away from the fact of that woman’s shame…Her days of intimidation, unauthorized rantings, manipulation, self-righteousness are OVER!!!
Not to mention she still have yet to answer the questions from the peoples of this region…SHE CAN’T!
EVERYONE CAN SEE HER SHAMEFUL DEMISE!
Just a quick recap of the QUESTIONS that have come from several different Godly people expressed in variety of way (see blogs for reference):
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
Apparently, the people of this county is NOT BUYING the poor little SELF-RIGHTOEUS Suzanne story.
SHE HAS FALLEN!!!
To I see know: We can point to the bad in everyone, does that give people a right to claim Christianity and spew venom in the next breath?
Is it godly to keep people tied to a fabricated deception?
Are we not Christians? What happened to restoration and grace? Is it the work of God to see people fall?
We just want to know under what authority she is claiming AFC needs to answer to…there has been a lot of “the community needs answers, we want to see fruit.” Great, then show this county yours. AFC is bearing fruit whether or not two people can’t see it. I assure you there are hundreds of other people that have witnessed restoration.
It’s about time somebody said something and addressed this spirit that does nothing more than hold back the Kingdom of God, not move it forward.
I find this whole week of new commentary from the people whom have decided to finally join in on this conversation very interesting.
It is interesting because I realize that the “new AFC” is finally speaking. LET HER VOICE BE HEARD, SHOUT YOUR PROCLIMATIONS FROM THE ROOF TOPS FOR ALL TO HEAR!!!!
I also realize that this latest round of whatever you want to call it comes after we accept the invitation to come and visit AFC to see for ourselves how much you have changed and grown. The part that I can’t seem to recall about our visit is how ANYONE came to us directly with these comments. We were there in “your house” easily accessable by anyone and everyone and yet …..nothing….. no direct communication with us at all. Ron Williams…nothing, Carlton Sauls…nothing, Veronica…nothing,Joey Turman…nothing,Rodney Brown… nothing ,although I finally got a hello from Bill only after he nervuosly circled us three times before actually offering a handshake greeting which was by the way reciprocated. I give Gail respect for actually having the genuine courage to greet my wife. Thank you Gail it was nice to see you again as well.
What you witnessed for yourselves was myself and my wife in the middle of your congregation and absoutely not moved by the hype, the jump jump routine, the shouting, the sermon of hey its ok God doesn’t hold you responsible for your actions no matter what you do! Not moved by or subject to the “authority” of anything at AFC.
What you fail to understand is that the “authority” of AFC left when its senior pastor Barry Cook had an affair with his associate pastors wife then lied about even having it in the first place.(Is any one going to be really suprised when he returns from his insulation period either married to or going to marry Carolyn so everything will be ok now?) BTW stoic meaning “unaffected by emotion” …. you are correct we are not affected by the emotional tactics of AFC.
You also stated that the current “Apostle” in leadership has already asked for proof and there is none,then why did he tell the SD Union Tribune that he in NOT requiring proof (the DNA test that everyone is terrified of) from Barry Cook?
Once again …. we offer to meet with leadership and you refuse. we come to where you are and you refuse to speak, you speak now what is in your heart towards us and we are not moved. Your reign of fear and rejection and intimidation and abuse is what is actually coming to an end here because you are seeing for yourselves that nobody is afraid of you anymore(We never were , that is why you accurately state that we were never “submitted” to you., although I do have a pretty good sized file that is filled with documentatin that shows a very strong relationship to the actual church… Degrees, Ministerial credentials, letters of recomendations from local,state and federal government officials not only from this country but from other nations as well, awards and certificates from Barry Cook himself I could go on but I think you get the picture.
One last thing for today the name is not ahab or jezebel or henchman or whatever other nicety you choose to throw our way… the name is GUINN as in HAL and SUSANNE GUINN.
One for the prophets of Baal ,our name is not Elijah either because you see we are not running away…
Good night for now
Not all of us attend AFC but nice try. Answer the questions! We don’t need credentials, we need intregrity and validity, show your character. The same thing you say AFC lacks. Nice try but again, grow up or move out. Those are your options!
Wow! I guess the truth really does hurt!
Boy, we called this one didn’t we.
Hal Guinn, thanks for the predictablilty and making our point for us.
The video recap, if AFC does one, will speak louder than words.
And frankly, from the looks of it the AFC leaders they were busy loving and fellowshipping with people. Apparently, it seems they were simply unaffected by your visit nor did they feel that your opinions, acceptance or approval were needed or valued. Well better luck next time. (Frankly, I don’t think they should even allow you in the building).
YOUR OWN WORDS OF POISION ARE EATING YOU UP. YOU HAVE NO VOICE AND NO AUTHORITY IN THIS COUNTY OR IN THE CHURCHES.
Finally and unsurprisingly, you still have not answered the QUESTIONS (HAL & SUZANNE GUINN)….
………………………………………………………………..
No degree of deterrence or cynicism can take away from the fact of that woman’s (man’s)shame…Her (their) days of intimidation, unauthorized rantings, manipulation, self-righteousness are OVER!!!
Not to mention she (they) still have yet to answer the questions from the peoples of this region…SHE (THEY) CAN’T!
EVERYONE CAN SEE HER (THEIR) SHAMEFUL DEMISE!
Just a quick recap of the QUESTIONS that have come from several different Godly people expressed in variety of way (see blogs for reference):
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
Apparently, the people of this county is NOT BUYING the poor little SELF-RIGHTOEUS (Hal &) Suzanne (Guinn) story.
SHE (THEY) HAS FALLEN!!!
Getting Mad Ahab?
it about time your lazy Jezebel of a wife goes to work.
PS I like the way you try to boast about you certificates and degrees in witchcraft.
NOBODY CARES
you have no life your wife has a huge mouth and is a bitter old hag that SCREWED up her sons life and is trying to push it on everyone else.
Why doesn’t everyone let the Apostle speak for himself? Where’s the transparency. Why doesn’t he have to answer the questions, and submit proof himself. Just like the plethora of questions you pose to others. Is there some kind of double standard here. Especially since he is the one who caused all of this mess in the first place?
Are you serious? Did he actually have a child with the wife of a married woman in his leadership? Where is her husband and his wife if everything is unfounded and are all rumors. Sounds like there may be more to the story than is being revealed.
Children, character and Godly examples start at the top. Why do you expect so much from the people in the pews and yet not the same thing from your Apostle. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM! He shamed himself and all of you in the process.
Tell him to be a true man of God, and stop having others fight his battles. It’s weak. Since he is without Godly integritg and lost all trust and probably his annointing, he should admit it and hand the mantle over permanently. Does anyone really think the Lord is okay with all of this?? Do you think our Father is not a true and just God. You mock our Father with vain and empty words.
Pray for true repentance, and let the church continue to heal. Do not devour one another for this does not bring glory to God.
The Lord just led me to this scirpture I have never seen before:
Isaiah 59-
Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, That it cannot save;
Nor His ear heavy, Tlhat it cannot hear. But your iniquities have
separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face
from you, So that He will not hear. For your hands are defiled with
blood, And your fingers with iniquity; Your lips have spoken lies,
Your tongue has muttered perversity.
No one calls for justice, Nor does any plead for truth. They trust
in empty words and speak lies; They conceive evil and bring forth
iniquity.
Therefore justice is far from us, Nor does righteousness overtake
us; We look for light, but there is darkness! For brightness, but we
walk in darkness! We grope the wall like the blind And we grope
as if we had no eyes; We stumble at noonday as at twilight; We are
dead men in desolate places. We all growl like bears And moan sadly
like doves; We look for justice, but there is none; For salvation, but it
is far from us. For our transgressions are multiplied before You, And
our sins testify against us; For our transgressions are with us, And as
for our iniquities, we know them:
In transgressing and lying against the Lord, And departing from our
God, Speaking oppression and revolt, Conceiving and uttering from
the heart words of falsehood, Justice is turned back, And righteousness
stands afar off; for truth is fallen in the street, And equity cannot
enter. So truth fails, And he who departs from evil makes himself
a prey.
Hear the word of the Lord…
To Unbelievable, Despite the fabrication of deception, the church IS being restored. Again, no facts all rumors. Proving a man guilty before he is innocent is not the church, it is mans own conviction to see the failure of a ministry.
The double standard is two people coming out proclaiming Christianity then turning around with a deathly tongue and speaking ill of people. Read the blog for yourself, anyone with half a heart would not come out and drag peoples pasts all over this blog. If the only issue here was with the pastor, then the Guinn’s should have kept it that way. Instead they have taken innocent victims into their web of self righteousness and judged them as if they were God.
Just ask Abe and Sabrina…
This community is TIRED of the manipulative voices that seem to care about the church yet do nothing to promote unity and peace among the brethren. They claim they are here to see the pastor confess, yet there is no proof, they say they will let him be once he is no longer part of AFC, under what authority are they being asked to do this?
They want to call everyone else out, say they stand up for Christianity yet use profanity and judgment on others. I thought they were only here to keep the pastor accountable? Instead, they took the lives of people and aired it out for everyone to read.
It’s simple, answer the questions Mr. and Mrs. Guinn….
YOUR “VOICE” IS NO LONGER BEING HEARD. ITS A SHADY GAME OF MANIPULATION. WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU CLAIM HAVE COME TO YOU? I’VE ASKED AROUND AND A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW DON’T EVEN BELIEVE IN YOUR STAND…SO WHERE ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE??
Show some fruit, but don’t DEMAND it of others if you can’t.
Emotional tactics? Really?? Let’s go back over what your wife has had to say about people on this blog and the venom she used in bringing up their past sins. As if she is sinless…those without sin cast the first stone. I’m not even talking about BC, I’m speaking for everyone else. I thought your purpose was to keep the leadership of AFC accountable? How did Abe and Sabrina get dragged in to your judgment?
Forget about the pastor, she has emotionally come after people who had sincere hearts here. Don’t try and turn this around so you all look like you did nothing wrong. Profanity, judgment, lack of accountability, prideful…shall I keep going?
The only people here getting emotional are the two of you, by dragging other people through the mud to prove your so called Christianity. Christians don’t treat each other the way you two do. With “friends who swear they love everyone” like you two, really, who needs enemies?
Point #1 To Unbelievable: Now there’s an idea. Let the man speak for himself. And if he does or doesn’t want to respond to them (which is already apparent), Let Hal & Susanne get themselves a big ol’ straw and suck it up.
Point #2 To Everyone Else: Wouldn’t it be interesting to see how much satisfaction Hal & Susanne would get in their quest for the TRUTH if literally no one blogged on this site again. Let them blog to themselves if they want. They only pull you deeper in to the feud with all the back and forth. Don’t come down to their level – rise above!
To Hal & Susanne: When you attended Sunday, why did you wait for others to approach you? If you were so hard up for answers, why didn’t you approach those you mentioned – what were you afraid of? People are busy and the church was packed. Stoic is not the correct word – it’s called stupid or religious.
Just as you mentioned about how no one said anything to your face but they blog here, didn’t and don’t you do the same thing? I don’t recall you approaching everyone you think you know from this blog to face them.
Just as you mentioned that people won’t tell the truth about their past or present, don’t you do the same thing? You still haven’t answered any questions just as he hasn’t, so why are you any better.
Just as you mentioned that people are attacking your character, don’t you do the same thing? It’s okay for you to do it all day but you demand an apology from this man. Jesus said, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Your approach alone is sinful enough for all of us.
Patience is a virtue. Why not just sit back, shut your mouths, and have patience. Do you honestly think that God can’t handle this one on his own?
Or if you insist on taking things into your own hands, I’m sure you know or can find out where he lives and you can go knock on his door and speak to him in person.
We, who speak out for AFC, speak out for AFC only, (at least that’s how I feel). We are not speaking for the man accused for what good would it do? You won’t be satisfied until you speak to him one on one, so what are you waiting for? You don’t honestly think he’s going to come looking for you, no matter what you say, truth or lie, do you? You’re the one that wants answers, right? Then go get them. Don’t blog to cyberspace as if you’d actually get a real response. You only get responses like your own which do and mean absolutely nothing.
However I just had a thought, maybe it’s not the truth your after. Maybe what they say about you is true and you just simply want to complain and gossip for the sake of complaining and gossiping. This takes me back to Points 1 and 2 at the top.
Have a great weekend. I’d say hope to see you in church on Sunday with an open heart but I don’t even know what you look like or who you are. So I’ll say hope you attend church somewhere to give and get forgiveness whether or not you receive an apology.
Just curious…… If our voice is not being heard then why is it that you are listening so intently? “The church was packed” got a good laugh out of me, a bit misleading don’t you think. You went from a sanctuary that held over 1000 to the new facility that probably holds 150 (give or take, I didn’t actually count) and it was by no means a full house) typically when a guest speaker comes in the attendance numbers get a nice bounce. Remember , I used to be one of the people who was responsible to take the head count for the services. We came in 5 minutes before service and were given seats in the 3rd row, that was the third row from the front. there were empty seats in front of us,on both sides of us and behind us. ( I wonder if that will show up on the “re-cap”) And one more time for the new folks, we have attempted numerous times to set up a meeting with the leadership ,I still have the e-mail from Ron Satrape stating that he would get back with us with a date and time for the meeting. He also has not honored his word. I understand that he will be in town again at the end of this month, lets see if he is available this time around. You do know about the large number of people who have gone to Barry Cook with the same questions that we are asking, so many people in fact that he got to the point where he quit taking the meetings. You see the people were not buying into the deception back then and they/we aren’t buying into it now nor are we buying into the cover-up that continues to this day.
BTW I love the comment about calling all of the churches in north county to see if they know who we are….good stuff….I’m guessing that I could do just that , call all the churches, only I’m going to ask them if they have ever heard of AFC. After all Barry Cook has always declared that he is the “set man” in this territory therefore every church in the territoy should also testify to his authority shouldn’t they? (I bet there will be some that recognize the name AFC because they did see the article on the front page of the county newspaper that told of the foreclosure of the church and how it was all the result of stress and building cost overruns.) Yea thats it…thats why 600 people left, we just couln’t handle the stress. None of us had enuogh faith in God to get us through the stress right? Or is it that those people (the Guinn family included) saw the lies and deception and abuse etc. for what it actually was and still is to this day. I would love to sit down with Barry Cook and talk to him directly, hey does anybody know where he is? The last I heard he was still insulating himself so he can heal and receive counseling. The man claims to have done nothing wrong , so what is it he is healing from and receiving counsel for? Why are his defenders claiming that he is innocent yet wish him well in his restoration process? In order to be restored to something a person would have to have done something to have lost whatever they are being restored to.
Dear People of the Most High God:
I can appreciate the difficult time this has been for everyone. But, I just want to share two last things the Lord gave me a little while ago. On a sincere note, I was told to pick up my daily devotional and read a certain day, and this is what it said:
Proverbs 16:12-13
A king detests wrongdoing, for his rule is built on justice. The king is pleased with words from righteous lips; he loves those who speak honestly.
1 Samuel 15: 23-24
Rebellion is as sinful as withchcraft, and stubbornness as bad as worshipping idols. So because you have rejected the command of the Lord, he has rejected you as king.
This is not a personal opinion. Since I have an established and recognized call in the office of a Prophet, for more than a decade, in edification of the Kingdom and it’s leadership, here in the states and abroad, it is with great humility that I proclaim…Thus saith the Lord.
Going On-
Is there a POINT to changing your names just to ask questions… gosh! it’s so tiring… just stick with Going On… Geeeezzz Louise.
lol@Hal…
Does it matter-
Then what you are still doing in here? Get out and Take all your people with you-the ugly spirits (aka- Jennifer/daniel/does it matter/answer says/and the many other names you keep changing in to)…Go back to wherever you came from….
Besides, get it Straight, it’s not just Suzanne and Hal blogging in here asking questions to Barry Cook…. You are just in here starting lies and more lies… Come to think of it, why is everyone so quick to point out this and that about Suzanne and Hal, and yet are BLIND of what APOSTLE BARRY was and is still doing…
And about Hal and SG having one on one with Barry… Put in a request for me too… I want to have that one on one conversation with Barry… And dont give me the excuse that he is not going to go look for any of us…Because if Barry can go look for Vince Limon to apologize after slandering him from the pulpit, I am pretty sure he can come look for us… We have tried to look for him… We have tried to set up meetings and no one is working with us… Politics-politics… So, do me a favor- when Barry Cook is done Hiding- let me know…
Besides- you got one to many questions to post….. Why dont you just give them a call… I am pretty sure they will be more than happy to answer those for you… What’s the matter??? Cant do it? I knew that was coming…. It was just a thought- it will save time, energy, and space up on this blog… Oh! but then again- you just suggested for everyone that thinks like you to not blog on here anymore…
Jennifer- YOU ARE A LIAR… You say that you have no love for the Guinns and yet you in here telling Sabrina and ABe that you love them… That’s like telling Jesus you love him and yet you hate your brother/sister…. That is a lie… I know that the Guinns have expressed their thoughts towards you and your husband, but i never read anywhere in their postings saying that they dont love you…. You just reading way too much into what they say…. or you are just taking their words – twist and paraphrase them to your satisfaction…
* Okay! And — Hugs Does it Matter (w/the many other names you keep changing to) and Jennifer and Daniel
I love you guys, In Jesus Name…
North County just wants to know…
1. Do they have a church?
2. What church are they submitted to?
3. Does the pastor know of what they are doing?
4. Do they have a pastor?
5. Who’s authority are they operating under?
6. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
7. I mean really, where did their authority derive?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
9. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
10. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
11. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
12. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved?
13. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
14. Haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
21. Why do they attack others if they are after only one person?
22. Where is the love that the bible mentions in I Corinthians 13?
23. What scripture do they stand on that “the end justifies the means”?
24. Why don’t you invite people to your church?
* Okay! And — Hugs SG, Hal and family, Unbelievable, Sabrina, Abe, What’s happening at AFC, Beauty, MT, Junior, Gino, and the many others who blogs in here….
I love you guys, In Jesus Name
To Does it Matter A.K.A Where?–
1. Do you have a church?
2. What church are you submitted to?
3. Does the pastor know of what you are doing?
4. Do you have a pastor?
5. Who’s authority are you operating under?
6. Does your pastor approve of what you do?
7. I mean really, where did your authority derive?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
9. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
10. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
11. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
12. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved?
13. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
14. Is sleeping with the co-pastors wife okay?
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. How much are they paying you to shut other up?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
21. Why do always try and answer questions for Barry COOK?
22. Where is the love that the bible mentions in I Corinthians 13?
23. What scripture do they stand on that “the end justifies the means”?
24. Why don’t you invite people to your church?
Where? A.K.A –
North county wants to know?!? Or is it just yourself and some others that think like you would like to know?
lol@Okay! And with questions # 14 and #21.
wow-i have missed a lot. i havent been on this blog for a long long time. sorry i have been away- i just got back from boot camp. i had a blast. there’s a lot of new people on here.
Okay- i think i know who u are. remember two years ago at the military ball, you were with Sgt. Pula. let me know if that’s u. i dont want to go into details about it, coz i could be wrong.
its sad to hear about the divorces, the kids, and the church losing the building. this clearly fruits of things that are not of God. i pray that the testimonies shared about AFC are true. because if indeed they are, God will bless u all within His time. His timing is perfect. But if this is all just cover up to clear apostle barry cook’s name; be ready because God will not be mocked.
blessings to everyone on this blog
God Bless everyone on this blog.
It amazing how the Guinn can’t stand to be held to a standard taht they so professed they uphold.
And, they still CAN”T ANSWER THE QUESTION, not BC, but we the people of North County (by the way, thanks to the person who took those questions and refrased them back at us -you prove our point – they are very good questions and SHOULD BE ANSWERED)! THE GUINN’S WILL NOT DO IT.
Here we go again….
_______________________________________
Boy, we called this one didn’t we.
Hal Guinn, thanks for the predictablilty and making our point for us.
The video recap, if AFC does one, will speak louder than words.
And frankly, from the looks of it the AFC leaders they were busy loving and fellowshipping with people. Apparently, it seems they were simply unaffected by your visit nor did they feel that your opinions, acceptance or approval were needed or valued. Well better luck next time. (Frankly, I don’t think they should even allow you in the building).
YOUR OWN WORDS OF POISION ARE EATING YOU UP. YOU HAVE NO VOICE AND NO AUTHORITY IN THIS COUNTY OR IN THE CHURCHES.
Finally and unsurprisingly, you still have not answered the QUESTIONS (HAL & SUZANNE GUINN)….
………………………………………………………………..
No degree of deterrence or cynicism can take away from the fact of that woman’s (man’s)shame…Her (their) days of intimidation, unauthorized rantings, manipulation, self-righteousness are OVER!!!
Not to mention she (they) still have yet to answer the questions from the peoples of this region…SHE (THEY) CAN’T!
EVERYONE CAN SEE HER (THEIR) SHAMEFUL DEMISE!
Just a quick recap of the QUESTIONS that have come from several different Godly people expressed in variety of way (see blogs for reference):
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?
Here’s a few from other concened citizen’s of North Count (some with AFC, some not).
21. Why do they attack others if they are after only one person?
22. Where is the love that the bible mentions in I Corinthians 13?
23. What scripture do they stand on that “the end justifies the means”?
24. Why don’t you invite people to your church?
Apparently, the people of this county is NOT BUYING the poor little SELF-RIGHTOEUS (Hal & Suzanne (Guinn) story.
SHE (THEY) HAS FALLEN!!!
Okay and-…Look, I don’t know you, and I wasn’t talking to you. Say what you want to me, I know I’m not lying. If you go back and read their posts they said all the things I said they did. I never said that they said they didn’t love me. And I do love Abe and Sabrina, I’ve known them for a very long time.
Call me a liar if you want but why would I come on here any lie about anything? I have nothing to gain from lying. I do not attend AFC, in fact I am sure that a lot of the things being said about Barry Cook are true, However I completely disagree with Susanne and Hal’s way of doing things. I’m just doing to them what they seem to think they have the right to do to the people at AFC. And obviously all it does is get them and people like YOU mad…I wonder why. Sure can dish it but can’t take it.
Jennifer-
Thank you for confirming that a lot of things said about Barry Cook are true… And Im sorry to hear that you are defending the people of AFC, but I defend the people of God…. People that were broken and hurt through this whole craziness… Real people that have families that were broken because of the lies, manipulation, sex scandals, and much much more- that was revolving within this AFC group…
Lupe-
wat up girl? you got me…. havent seen you in a minute… how are things with u? i have a old # for you, the one ending in 8356… did u guys move? ill keep checkin in here for your posts… i need an email or a phone number, because this sister need to update the phone book…lol… God’s Blessings on you and yours.
Okay! And– Hugs Jennifer –
I love you, In Jesus Name… When we have different opinions, it doesnt make us enemies… 🙂 Snap out of it Girl.
Okay and-…I’m not confirming that anything is true. I left AFC in 2001 long before any of this came about. All I am saying is that some of it may be true, but who knows except for barry cook and the people actually involved. Trust me when I say that my family would have plenty to be angry and bitter about with AFC but we chose a different route.
When anyone is attacked by someone as ruthless as Susanne and her husband it bothers me. Doesn’t matter who they are or what church they go to. I just don’t agree with her tactics and when I turned it on her about what she has done ( I only spoke of things I knew of about her) she lashed out. I just wanted her to see how it feels…not very nice. And as I expected she lashed back at me and then your brother did the same.
We do have different opinions about this but I never said anything against you. It was you who started addressing me on this blog when I was speaking to Susanne. You can try and turn it around and be friendly now but we both know what it really is. The fact that you called your brother and had him come on the blog and bash us tells me enough about you to know that you don’t really have “love”.
WELL, SINCE HAL & SUSANNE WON’T ANSWER, HOW ABOUT I ANSWER FOR THEM. THAT’S TYPICALLY HOW IT WORKS AROUND HERE, RIGHT? PUTTING WORDS INTO OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS AND PROFESSING TRUTHS WHERE THEY TRULY DON’T KNOW, KNOW, KNOW FOR SURE… LET ME KNOW HOW I DO..
1. Do they have a church? NO, I DON’T BELIEVE THEY DO, OTHERWISE WHY WOULD THEY CONTINUE TO SHOW UP AT AFC
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY, THAT’S WHY THINGS AREN’T QUITE GOING THE WAY THEY DEMAND.
3 What church are they submitted to? NONE, ITS NOT IN THEIR VOCABULARY.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? PROBABLY NOT SINCE THERE ISN’T ONE
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do? AGAIN, NO PASTOR TO SPEAK OF
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? OH THE FEELINGS MAY BE VALID, BUT STILL NO REAL AUTHORITY THERE.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think? YES, VERY VERY PRIDEFUL.
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration? YES, AGAIN.
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position? YEP, ONCE AGAIN. PRIDE PRIDE PRIDE
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored? YEP, PRIDE ESPECIALLY SINCE IT WASN’T BETWEEN THEM AND BC.
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? NOPE, CAN’T. THEY PULL MORE OUT THAN THEY BRING IN.
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce? YEP, THAT WOULD BE TRUE.
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? NOPE Do her boys have the same father? NOPE
15. Where is your fruit? IT APPEARS THEIR TREE NEEDS PRUNING
16. How many souls have you saved? ONCE AGAIN, NONE LATELY
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars? MAYBE SOME MAYBE NONE, BUT WHAT’S HE GOT TO DO WITH IT?
18. What ministries are you involved with? THE MINISTRY OF DEPRIVATION AND DIVISION.
19. Who do you disciple? EACH OTHER FOR THE MOMENT
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward? NOTHING, THEY LIKE KEEPING IT ON PAUSE SO THEY CAN DWELL IN THE MISERY A LITTLE LONGER – FOUR YEARS ISN’T LONG ENOUGH.
Here’s a few from other concened citizen’s of North Count (some with AFC, some not).
21. Why do they attack others if they are after only one person? GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT.
22. Where is the love that the bible mentions in I Corinthians 13? ITS IN THE BIBLE, NOT IN HAL AND SUSANNE.
23. What scripture do they stand on that “the end justifies the means”? NONE
24. Why don’t you invite people to your church? THEY ARE SIMPLY WAITING FOR AFC TO MEET “THEIR STANDARDS” SO THEY CAN COME BACK HOME. SORRY, WE’RE NOT QUITE THERE YET.
Jennifer-
I know that you never addressed me, but you and your husband were up against my brother…Do you honestly think I am just going to sit here and watch that… Just how you dont like SG and Hal attacking people, same goes for me…. I dont like seeing my brother getting attacked when he simply said the truth… And for your INFORMATION missy – a lot of people that use to go there were talking to my brother about this BLOG, so he asked me about it…All I did was tell him about what was happening up in here… That was it… PERIOD… you can choose to believe it or not- im not worried at all..
Besides, Junior is a grown a$$ man, he can stand up for himself… If he said something in here, hold him accountable for that… Dont throw it at my face like I dragged him here…. And Like I said before, stop taking words and paraphrazing them to your satisfaction..
Please dont tell me you know me just because I answered my brother’s quesitons about the blog… So, Wasnt your husband the same individual that his post got removed from the blog because of the context??? should I assume just by your husbands postings that he is the same way…. That he is what he writes in here…. I dont think it’s fair to say that… Because inspite of what my brother thinks of you two- i think you two are great people with different opinions… So, please dont assume you know me…
And one last time, just because we have different opinions, doesnt make us ENEMIES…
Does it really matter-
Stop talking to yourself like an idiot.
Does it really matter-
Im sorry- you can continue… Didnt mean to rain on your parade…
Hey everybody , just got home from work. Apparently some folks are a bit aggitated in here, let me see if I can help.
To the copy and paste “question man” whoever you choose to be today. Is it “Where?”
1.yes
2.not yours
3.yes
4.yes
5.Gods
6.yes
7.same as #5
8.no
9. no and we are not the sole voice…there are many
10.is that a question or your opinion
11.same as #10
12.only Christ can save
13.who are you asking that question to
14.no
15.on my orange tree
16.same as #12
17.ask him yourself
18.several
19.people that have eyes to see and ears to hear
20.ridding it of corruption
21.who are you asking
22.in my heart
23.the blog is not long enough to list them all but lets start with “Though shalt not commit adultery” or “Though shalt not bear false witness against their neighbor”
24.we do
Hope this helps but I get the feeling that it probably won’t in your case. Anything else that I can help you with today? BTW thanks for asking.
HAL
One more thing, We are not going to be home tonight so please don’t YELL for us through your computer because I can’t actually hear you.
TO Okay and:
Either you are some little girl trying to get in an adult conversation or a retard or both. fro reals you have to get looked at you seem to suffer from Bipolar just like Jezebel Guinn.
You consistently contradict your self.
The last thing you wrote was that you attacked me and my wife because we were confronting your bother about the nasty lies he wrote, THEN you said he could defend him self??? make up your mid.
Daniel-
when you open your mouth- bad air just comes out… If I remember correctly, I was responding to Jennifer… Not you… Retard?!? LMAO– grow up from your name calling days…… You are so childish… adult conversation?!? Please start acting like one…. And until you do- we can start communicating again… otherwise- I suggest you stick with MySpace… You are good at it…
have a great weekend! God Bless
Children, character and Godly examples start at the top. Why do you expect so much from the people in the pews and yet not the same thing from your Apostle. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM! He shamed himself and all of you in the process.
Tell him to be a true man of God, and stop having others fight his battles. It’s weak. Since he is without Godly integritg and lost all trust and probably his annointing, he should admit it and hand the mantle over permanently. Does anyone really think the Lord is okay with all of this?? Do you think our Father is not a true and just God. You mock our Father with vain and empty words.
Pray for true repentance, and let the church continue to heal. Do not devour one another for this does not bring glory to God.
The Lord just led me to this scirpture I have never seen before:
Isaiah 59-
Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, That it cannot save;
Nor His ear heavy, Tlhat it cannot hear. But your iniquities have
separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face
from you, So that He will not hear. For your hands are defiled with
blood, And your fingers with iniquity; Your lips have spoken lies,
Your tongue has muttered perversity.
No one calls for justice, Nor does any plead for truth. They trust
in empty words and speak lies; They conceive evil and bring forth
iniquity.
Therefore justice is far from us, Nor does righteousness overtake
us; We look for light, but there is darkness! For brightness, but we
walk in darkness! We grope the wall like the blind And we grope
as if we had no eyes; We stumble at noonday as at twilight; We are
dead men in desolate places. We all growl like bears And moan sadly
like doves; We look for justice, but there is none; For salvation, but it
is far from us. For our transgressions are multiplied before You, And
our sins testify against us; For our transgressions are with us, And as
for our iniquities, we know them:
In transgressing and lying against the Lord, And departing from our
God, Speaking oppression and revolt, Conceiving and uttering from
the heart words of falsehood, Justice is turned back, And righteousness
stands afar off; for truth is fallen in the street, And equity cannot
enter. So truth fails, And he who departs from evil makes himself
a prey.
Hear the word of the Lord…
Proverbs 16:12-13
A king detests wrongdoing, for his rule is built on justice. The king is pleased with words from righteous lips; he loves those who speak honestly.
1 Samuel 15: 23-24
Rebellion is as sinful as withchcraft, and stubbornness as bad as worshipping idols. So because you have rejected the command of the Lord, he has rejected you as king.
This is not a personal opinion. Since I have an established and recognized call in the office of a Prophet, for more than a decade, in edification of the Kingdom and it’s leadership, here in the states and abroad, it is with great humility that I proclaim…Thus saith the Lord.
Answered with generalizations and no real sustinence. Typical. We knew that was coming. Who is your pastor? Which church? We need to know what church is allowing you to walk around attacking people. Either you’re lying or the bible is lying cuz it said out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and you said that the love is in your heart but that’s not what you’ve “spoken” by way of blogging. Let’s find out who’s really letting walk around our neighborhoods and county attacking anybody you feel deserves it. God’s authority? That’s questionable. God always appoints leadership, so, who’s your Godly leader here on earth? So many people that met with him to question him yet because they did not have facts, they “were not buying into the deception”. But they did. They bought into the deception that even though there were no facts, so many people saw him do it… i mean say he did it that it must be true. Not their fault. It happens to the best of us. We all get deceived every now and then. I mean, you are deceived to believe you’re operating on God’s authority but there’s no witness to this appointed assignment except those you have convince through false love, puffed up words, attacks on those who oppose you. Answer the questions with some real sustinence. Give us the name of your pastor so we can forward this to them and see if you’ve been a great witness to the love of Christ. Let’s see if they think that you’ve been compassionate. Let’s see if they think you’ve genuinely showed cared for those who you think are being deceived and manipulated. You really think that by attacking people you’re going to gain their trust to believe that you care about them. And you talk about character? Generalizations and lack of substince to the questions that only confirm you have no real set authority in your life to authorize your agenda. You say your not going anywhere, neither are the people following God. I don’t even go to AFC anymore but what you’re doing is a false word to cause division to God’s people. Your judgement will come and it wont be from us, it will be from God.
Unbelieveable, nobody’s fighting his battles for him. Nobody’s making excuses. Hal even stated that he took meetings with many people and they didn’t agree with his answers. So be it. Either don’t agree and move on or don’t agree and move out. But the fact is nobody brought facts to him, on circumstances and situations. We’ve had innocent people persecuted… I mean prosecuted… on much less than that. To answer a couple of your questions, He’s obviously been okay with it to allow this to continue for some reason but in the end His will will be done. Even though I don’t agree with the division that has taken place, the arguements that have taken place, He may not be taking pleasure in this but He’s allowed it to continue with it for some reason. I’m fine with that and I’m sure AFC is fine with it. Justice is God’s decision. Justice is not people pointing fingers, placing blame, using “circumstancial evidince” to persecute… sorrry again… prosecute somebody, in the mean time, attempting to diminish, condemn and attack anybody who appears to be on his side. I enjoyed reading that chapter but I dont think it’s meant to those who you are trying to apply it. The “heart words of falsehood” have not come from AFC’s side. It’s all over this blog starting from late 2007. Oh, and don’t let’s put your 1 Samuel 15 scripture in context. Saul was told to completely wipe out the amalekites. But he didn’t. He kept spoils. Personal rewards, trophies. He was selfish enough to assume that he could keep something God did not want him to have, otherwise God would have told him to keep the spoils. Presumed that he was above God’s command. Yet, the guinn’s have been above the command to love thy neighbor as thyself. They’ve thought evil in their heart, something that is in direct contradiction to God’s word. Yet, no remorse, no repentance, no foregiveness. They’re the ones that are now being judged according to the same words they have spoken. They’re being tested to show their character. You’re seeing the result because they won’t dare to tell us who is their pastor or church. since you’re in the office of prophet, you recognize the requirement of authority in our lives. Let’s see who their authority is.
Grow up, or move out/on. Those are your options.
Where?-
That might be your only Option- grow up!
where?-
do u need a haircut? i make it silky smooth, if you like.
Grow up? Check your comment at 2:43am about a hair cut and tell me who needs to grow up. By the way, my hair is long and again, I don’t attend AFC. Get over your generalizations to try to bring people down. You’re validating the character of those who come against the church. Not all but some of them, like you. Still, no real character except again, the lack of love and attacking those you don’t agree with. Please? I’m sure I hit a nerve/spirit but it’s okay. If you need it, you have the opportunity for true restoration of anything stolen by the enemy. It may require prayer and fasting but it is possible. Your manifestations are confirmations that there is no genuine love in your approach. My point still stands, grow up or move out/on.
Oh, and my post was scriptural, using and quoting God’s word and you attacked it. Just wanted to point that out too. See, the writings on the wall. North County is asking and God is revealing. Again, my point is, grow up or move out/on.
To WHERE
It appears to me that you seem to have difficulty with the fact that God is able to speak to people outside of the “membership” of AFC. I’m not sure if that mindset stems from arrogance or ignorance…it’s a pretty fine line there.
The last time I checked when someone asks another person questions that are yes/no
type questions they typically get yes/no answers. Also the reason that you find me “predictable” is because you understand that I hold true to my convictions and do not waver from what I know to be the truth, therefor my responses to the corruption of Barry Cook and those involved in the cover-up do not change.
Now let me ask you a question, Do you think that a pastor of a church that is mired in controversy stemming from alleged misconduct such as “rumors” of adultery, abuse, ministerial misconduct, lies, control and manipulation of its members, infedelity amongst it’s top leadership positions etc etc etc should at the very least stand and give an account to the allegations ?(not to satisfy his critics but to protect his congregation from the public scrutiny that has resulted from his continued silence)
A simple DNA test will end all speculation of whether or not he fathered Carolyns boy.
Okay And-…
Look, I’m sure you’re a nice lady and all but really, your post totally confused me. First you say that you had to stand up for your brother, then in the next paragraph you say that he can stand up for himself. I don’t get it. Which is it.
Well, from what I gathered in the comments your brother made he came on here because of you…I could be wrong though. And anyway I never assumed anything about him other than he didn’t like what Daniel or I wrote and so he retaliated with crazy nonsense. I don’t see where anything he actually wrote was the truth. That’s all.
So anyway, I didn’t come on here to argue with people about stuff like this. I came on here because I heard about what Susanne was doing and thought I’d dish out for her a little of what she was doing to others. If AFC is in the wrong, trust me when I say they will get what’s coming to them without Susanne’s help.
There you go again Okay and. HAHAHA
You claim love and keep saying in Jesus name but yet you also keep saying bad words such as ….LMAO ….Do you even know what that means??? or are you just an idiot that assumes you know…. Given you try to jump in on conversations you know nothing about I’m going with #2.
Jennifer-
I was only saying that I addressed you in my comments because you guys were attacking my brother… But regardless of my comments, my brother can stand up for himself… Which means, no matter what I say- he will stand up to whoever comes against him… He doesnt really need me… But I was just standing up for family… thats it… I hope that clears it up…
Just one thing- How do you stand to be with an idiot like Daniel?hehehehe LMAO….. My goodness.. I guess it’s true in psychological perspective, that men do mature a lot slower than women… And can you let your husband know that he has said a lot more worst things that I have posted on this blog… Just by reading his comments and especially the comment that got removed- “LMAO” is not even close to comparison with any of his non sense… Thanks Jennifer!
**Hugs Jennifer- I apologize if I have ever said anything to offend you… I think you are good people after all… Come to think of it, I dont think you ever said anything bad to me, until Daniel showed up… Well, you can count that I wont cross paths with you anymore… But I still stand to the fact that Barry Cook should be held accountable for his actions… and he should address the issue publicly…… I mean Barry Cook alone… Am not referring to the leadership or AFC at all…
Anywho- blessings on you Jennifer and your kids…. (oops! and Daniel)
hmmmm.. what does LMAO mean? I have a different meaning:
Laugh
My
Agelu’s
Off
I dont know what Daniel was thinking… tsk tsk… dirty mind
Where?-
I see that you spend all your time in here..lol (can’t use LMAO per Daniel- it’s a bad word)…. “Dont mess with the Zohan” is a movie… And I think that was just a line from the movie saying “if you want a haircut, I’ll make it silky smooth… ”
Geez Louise- take a break… walk on the beach… go watch a movie… quit for a day and come back tomorrow or Tuesday… And That individual only posted TWO comments, and yet you claim that you he/she was coming against the church… How did you come to that conclusion? Is it because he/she said to grow up?!?!?
Daniel-
Im sorry… 🙂 Eventhough you sound a little rough and mean- I think you have a good heart, because you got a great woman standing by you…. So, regardless of your wanna be hard core comments, I think you are a little softy in the heart… which is a great thing… 🙂 God Bless!
To Hal: Regarding the following comment… Now let me ask you a question, Do you think that a pastor of a church that is mired in controversy stemming from alleged misconduct such as “rumors” of adultery, abuse, ministerial misconduct, lies, control and manipulation of its members, infedelity amongst it’s top leadership positions etc etc etc should at the very least stand and give an account to the allegations ?(not to satisfy his critics but to protect his congregation from the public scrutiny that has resulted from his continued silence) A simple DNA test will end all speculation of whether or not he fathered Carolyns boy.
WE ALL KNOW THE SIMPLE ANSWER BUT DID ANYONE NOTICE THAT GOD DOESN’T WORK IN “SIMPLE WAYS”. DID ANYONE EVER THINK THAT MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, GOT TOLD APOSTLE BARRY COOK NOT TO SPEAK UP JUST YET. MAYBE JUST MAYBE, GOD IS TESTING THE CHURCH ITSELF TO SEE IF IT IS PRAISING, WORSHIPING AND LEANING ON HIM RATHER THAN MAN.
SO THE MAN FELL, LIKE SO MANY GREAT MEN IN THE BIBLE DID, BUT GOD WILL RESTORE AND CONTINUE TO USE THIS GREAT MAN OF GOD AND THE CHURCH WITH THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN TO STAY AND FIGHT WILL BE BLESSED. IN OR OUT OF AFC, THE WILL OF GOD IS THE LIFT UP THE NAME OF JESUS. PRAISE HIM IN ALL THAT YOU DO. TAKE YOUR FOCUS OFF OF THE THINGS OF MAN AND PLACE IT ON THE THINGS OF GOD. SHARE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST WITH OTHERS NOT THE LATEST GOSSIP. STEP OUTSIDE YOUR SINFUL SELVES AND MAKE GOD FIRST IN YOUR LIFE. FOR WE ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. GREAT OR SMALL, WE CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST THE STRENGTHENS US. DON’T LOSE FOCUS, KEEP YOUR EYES ON GOD.
To DOES IT REALLY MATTER:
A couple of things.
The question I asked was asked to “WHERE” but since you had to jump in I’ll go ahead and respond to your comment.
“WE ALL KNOW THE SIMPLE ANSWER” A very true and accurate statement, yes we all do know the answer to the question because it is a very simple answer, the only problem is that Barry and AFC is afraid to speak it out loud because someone might hear them.
“GOD DOESN”T WORK IN SIMPLE WAYS” How then did you come to salvation? Was it believe in your heart and confess with your mouth. My friend it does not get much simpler than that.
This whole ordeal is very simple, Barry needs to tell the truth, If he is being honest in his denials regarding the adultry and not having fathered the child then a simple DNA test would clear him of these allegations.
Did Barry tell you that God told him not to say anything yet?
“SO THE MAN FELL” If , as he claims, he has done nothing wrong then why has he fallen? The curse does not causeless come.
Once again I will pose the same question to you (The same one you copy and pasted)
it is a simple yes/no question. Just give it a simple yes/no answer.
To everyone on this page,
This fight back and forth regarding Ambassador Family Church has to stop. In the end God is the ulitmate judge of us all. I have been a devoted and faithful servant at Ambassador Family Church for 8 years. I even know each and everyone of you on this blog, or page. I can not believe its been almost a year and people have not gone on with the lives. This has been going on long enough.
I will not put names out there but I know why certain people aren’t at the church. The sad thing is when members of the congregation left, it had nothing to do with the Gossip that is so trying to keep a dark cloud over AFC.
Members and family of AFC, stop fueling the fires here. If you really look closely, Certain people here are trying to hold an undoctrial ministry on this page. its their way of trying to preach and really hoping people would listen.
To all the Men and Women of God, I love you all….But the family at AMBASSADOR FAMILY CHURCH are moving forward. We are in a new season, we have a fresh new zeal and excitement for the move of God.
COME JOIN OUR FATHERS DAY SERVICE NEXT SUN, JUNE 15TH
SUN, JUNE 29TH APOSTLE RON SATRAPE
WE HAVE A WONDER SERVICE ON THURSDAYS @ 7:00PM
Our mission is to EVANGELISE TO THE LOST
BRING REVIVAL TO THE CHURCH AND REFORMATION TO OUR COMMUNITIES. We are truely doing that, and the evidence has been in the dynamic services we have had in our new location, the move of God is alive and well, at Ambassador Family Church.
To all of you be bless!
“a true christian would rather reconciled than right”(Prophet ED TRAUT)
“now all things are of God who has reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconcilation.” (2 Cor 5:18)
Where?-
Why do you continue to answer for Barry Cook? Boy- you sure do have an excuse for everything up against him…
HAL-
The individual posting as “WHERE?” is the same fool posting as “DOES IT REALLY MATTER….” He doesnt keep one name but you can tell it’s him, because he either repeats himself over and over like a broken record, or he talks to himself like an idiot…
I like Angelwarrior… He just says what he has to say and not put anyone down…. People like this makes me want to go back and visit AFC…. People that bring the good word and shares with all of us in here… I have always appreciated the praise reports from Abe and the individual that was posting as “What’s happening at AFC” .
Okay… you are wrong to assume that I and Does it really matter are the same person, it’s not true. Spend all my time here? That’s funny. You posted 6 times. I never said that person was coming against the church. I said that the generalizations and attempts to bring people down is what is done to anybody not on the same side as the guinns. I must have mistyped, or mislead with my words. I was only pointing out the attacks that come to those who do not agree with the guinns. If you want people to stop feeling attacked then you may want to talk to the guinns as well. How in the world did you come to the conclusion I’m answering for Barry Cook? I only asked questions and then pointed out how the questions were going to be answered in the typical nonsensical way. I also pointed out that they would refuse to share with us their church and their pastor’s names. Besides, this was directed towards the guinns, not you. You tell others not to answer for Barry Cook, so stay out of it for a bit and let the guinns clear this matter up for themselves. Like you all are trying to have Barry Cook do, right? I mean, that’s what you want from him, right? Clarification? Answers? Facts? No hiding? Oh, wait, again, the guinns confirmed that Barry Cook did in fact talk to people for a time. If I told people my side of the story repeatedly and they stopped believing me and left and started talking about me and saying the things they’ve said, I’d stop talking to those people too. Again, thinking no evil of anyone is true love. I like Angelwarrior’s post. I know there are more like you at AFC, continue in your love for the kingdom and continue to be a true minister of reconciliation. Stand strong and be of good courage. Also, I’m sure that even though your post may have been liked, scriptural and loving, they will disregard it as something under the control and manipulation that goes on over there and not really respond to it, or worse yet, attack you because you attend a church you believe in. And they may even do it without knowing who you are. I pray this doesn’t happen to you.
Hal… I know he speaks to people outside of the “membership” of AFC, I’m one of them. I don’t have a problem with that and you throwing up that statement is just another smoke screen to shift the conversation from what’s really going on here. We find you predictable because we know your motives and the way you have consistently responded to situations such as these, by diverting and attacking and showing no sort of compassion for the people of god and that’s what’s wrong. You all have brought so much division in an approach that “the end justifies the means” but you disregard scripture on how God tells you to deal with His people. You think it’s okay to slander and attak. You think it’s okay to put people down to make yourselves look high and mighty. Disregarding all my points about authority but only trying to show that I am wrong but again, here’s what’s going to happen and lets see how you respond. I will take your own words and repeat them back to you but putting the statement towards you and lets see what you say. “It appears to me that you seem to have difficulty with the fact that God is able to speak to the “membership” of AFC. I’m not sure if that mindset stems from arrogance or ignorance…it’s a pretty fine line there.” You are so correct in your statement but I have answered that I do not believe that. In fact, I believe god is speaking to you all. I believe he’s speaking to the “okay” person. However, I’m bringing you, the guinns, into question here. So, lets see. I know my heart and even though you may think I’m coming against in any way contrary to God, be assured that I love you guys and want to see your true restoration and allow yourselves to be broken from the spirit of witchcraft that has entered into you guys. I’m not saying that because I know or don’t know you, I’m saying that according to the very words that coem across this blog from you guys. It is blatantly obvious that you all are stuck and can’t get past this. So, here it is, the veil has dropped to reveal a mirror staring you all in the face.
Who is your pastor?
WHO is your Godly authority here on earth?
What church do you attend as members?
There you go. Not a yes/no question. We would like you to name them. I think you guys even said they know about what you’re doing and support you in it. So, let’s hear it. I know you won’t give them to us. You say you stand by your convictions and respond according to the character you’re asking Barry Cook to walk in, then show your true character. The challenge remains and they are very easy to answer, who is your pastor and which church do you attend as members?
All evasion, and no real answers…figures. Why trust the Guinn’s authority, they are only operating out of their own self serving convictions. If God put them in this position, surely they would have to be accountable to a ministry…yet they continue to dodge the questions…Lack of integrity…it’s over.
Where? –
Just because I posted six times doesnt mean I spend all my time here…
1. I keep my posts short, unlike you try to type up a whole book
2. Dont hate on me, because i type faster than you… hehehehe…
Where-
thanks for counting my posts for me… I was typing so fast I couldnt keep track of many times I’ve posted in here… hehehe…. This is it for the night… Good Night…
Unbelievable-
Let me ask you this, did David lose his anointing when he slept with Bathsheba and then killed her husband? I’m not making excuses for Barry Cook, I just can’t believe someone would come on here calling themself a prophet and say weird things like that.
Okay and-…
Look here’s the deal. Daniel and I came on strong with Susanne because as far as we know (in our own experiences with her) she is not all she is representing herself to be on this blog. I still stand by everything I wrote as being the truth.
And I purposely didn’t say anything to your brother, that was all Daniel. And anything that Daniel wrote was in response to your brother’s comments. Basically we were writing to Susanne and your bro jumped in. If you go back, I didn’t write anything to him at all except maybe to say that what he was writing what a bunch of BS. I am not going to engage conversation with someone who makes up crazy stuff while they are on a blog.
As for the whole Barry Cook thing I have my own opinion on if he is guilty or not. I’ve seen pictures of the kid and I think that speaks for itself. I just think that if you are a non-member of AFC then there is no right or reason to question him and demand a response. I understand if members of AFC are going to him and asking for answers then yes, by all means, he should answer and if he choses not to then I would understand their decision to leave and if they choose to stay then so be it. But if they leave then why don’t they just move on with life? That’s what I want to know.
And as for Daniel, he comes off rough, anyone who knows him will tell you that. But he has no problem saying what he thinks which I think some people find offensive…but most of the time it is exactly what people are thinking and just don’t want to say.
Anyway, Okay And-I hope you get where we’re coming from. Really, anything we wrote on here was to Susanne and her alone. I know most people thought we were down right awful for bringing up Kenny (even though he was being talked about on here long before we showed up). But anything we wrote was true…we have nothing to benefit from making stuff up on here.
Where?- Dude, they are not going to answer you. That’s just how it is. And if they do write you back it will be to bash you and tell you off. Sorry! You are right, they will ask so much of someone else and then refuse to answer questions themselves.
Taking a early lunch break and thought I’d pop in.
Jennifer,.. I know they wont. I’m sure they’ll try to bash me. That’s because that’s almost all they’ve done on here is question anybody who doesn’t agree with them. I mean, you’ve just proven that you may agree with the points that they’re trying to make but not how they’re making it. That’s my point too. They just need to move on. Grow up. Let it go. There stance is unbiblical, there approach is unbiblical, which shows that they are not walking it out according to god’s word. I think theres issues at the church that need improving but God specifically told us in his word to mark those who cause division among his people and to avoid them, stay away from them. They are not bringing unity in any way, they are causing division and are not standing on a biblical approach to handling these issues and that’s fine.
Okay… Congratulations. You type fast and keep your posts short and sweet but you posted 4 times in like 20 minutes, why keep reposting. I have nothing against you. I’m not hating on you. You addressed me, remember? Again, these were addressed to the guinns. Let them answer for themselves.
Guinns…. still no response? No answers?
Who’s your pastor?
Which church do you attend as members?
Where?-
Exactly, I have yet to go to a church where everything is perfect. Maybe Susanne and Hal found a church that is perfect though! I guess we’ll never know since they won’t tell us where they go to church.
Still waiting on answers from Hal and SG…I notice they like to turn things around every time they are faced with questions they don’t want to answer.
Guess they are no better than BC, they claim he won’t answer questions…but they don’t either.
No credibility, no intetgrity, just a bunch of negative people seeking justice with no leadership authority.
its sad to hear about the divorces, the kids, and the church losing the building. this clearly fruits of things that are not of God. i pray that the testimonies shared about AFC are true. because if indeed they are, God will bless u all within His time. His timing is perfect. But if this is all just cover up to clear apostle barry cook’s name; be ready because God will not be mocked.
Nobody is covering for anyone, what is so hard to understand about that? Believe it or not, there are people who do actually want to see the Kingdom advance. The fabrication of this deception is not going to deter anyone at AFC from moving forward.
Now if Hal and Suzanne would stop covering up their own behaviors…
What church authority did they say they were operating under?
answers-
why do you want to know what church they attend or who their pastor is? It has no relevance to what they were questioning from the beginning… What? you guys want a church name, so you guys can bash on that innocent church family…. Dont hold whatever church family that they are part of accountable, because that has nothing to do with what SG and Hal were questioning from the beginning…
Sorry the name is Lupe… 🙂
Lupe I think you need to go back and read the blogs about the whole reason we have been asking about the authority they have been operating under.
So here is what someone posted previously:
I was at AFC on Sunday.
It seems to me that despite of all the things a very small few handful have been saying on this blog negatively…AFC is going on!
I saw the Guinns at the service – they looked in my view hard and stoic but people around them were warm and welcoming. They used the same old tired tricks – come in and try to act like you are someone important and special. Don’t respond, don’t particpate….look mean – then they have the audacity to try to set it up like someone needs their approval – WE DON’T!!! You don’t even have to take my word for it – AFC often does recaps of the service so you will be able to see how they looked for youselves. It was a sad…sad portrayal of Christianity. They even got a welcome from some leaders of AFC from the pulpit. Don’t sound like an afraid AFC leadership to me – apparently those leaders are happy, full of love and moving forward!
There were quite a few formers there that was equally embraced and being restored back into fellowship. Like it our not it is happening! If there whole argument was built on the fact that because BC or whoever did something wrong as the reason the church was going down then all of these Godly signs and wonders, growth and progression proves that something has changed. If you don’t believe me go and check out AFC website and you will hear the people testify for themselves!! Better yet, visit the church yourself. (It is on 2904 MacDonald Street, Oceanside, CA 92056 – services are Sunday at 10am, Thursday at 7:00pm). But come early on Sunday because seats are filling up fast.
I feel bad for the Guinn’s who like “Truth Be Told” said,” try to use intimidation tactics to set themselves up in a position of power – unsuccessfully. They tried to position themselves as the voice, or gatekeepers of this area but no legitimate church has endorsed, supported or listened to them. In fact, I don’t know of any minister, pastor or church in North County that views them as a legitimate voice or have authorized them to do what they are doing. Nor do many churches actually want them as members as they are (especially after they find out from other pastors how they really are). Open up your yellow pages and call the churches, ask around!!! It’s interesting that no one thought about this in the beginning.
I feel bad for all those who jumped on their bandwagon. Thus are the results of presumption and pride.
From what I understand, the Guinn’s have never been able to submit to a leadership or church in this county. They always thought they knew best (excuse me – Suzanne mostly). Hal was always the one sent like a henchman to try to intimidate and then she would hide behind him in a false pretense of submission. (In one of their blogs they talked about how they went in AFC and confronted BC – what they didn’t say is all he did was stand in the back stoic – BC didn’t even see him and the ushers (because he would not take a seat and was not being agreeable asked him to leave) – Suzanne, of course, was hiding…waiting in the car). This was hardly the strong stand for righteousness they were speaking of. These type of intimidation tactics (as the article above beatifully illustates) is nothing new – it is classic Jezebel and Ahab!
Then they tried to creat a hoax by saying that the telephone number at AFC didn’t work and that they were not in the yellow pages and that 411 didn’t have their number. So I tried it, I called the number 760-722-7000 and the staff answered (more than once by the way) – They also have a nice anwering system. I called 411 and they gave me AFC’s phone number and it was correct. Finally, the yellow pages (August 2007 to 200 issue – AFC’s information is there. Trying to overshadow someone else’s true legitimacy so they can try to gain significance. Again, their mode of operation – intimidation, assumption, miscommuication and deception. WE ARE NOT BUYING!!!
In these blogs the set oversight of AFC, Ron Satrape, addressed Suzanne and directly spoke about him being the oversight for the church. How he was directing BC and the church. The Guinns responded back by questioning a legitaimate, seasoned and well backed up authority. You can read Jude, and find out what the Bible speaks about those who questioned authority. You can see who Ron Satrape is, just look him up on the web and his work will speak for itself. You can also go on You Tube and look under Ambassador Family Church and see what he said in his own words.
BY THE WAY….
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
Sometimes, as Christians, we forget where we have come from.
Although, we know that there is a few very small handful of people who listen to the Guinn’s it is amazing that anyone does at all.
GUINN’S – You obviously have a gift for gab – you should use it to get people saved or something constructive. Like David, said you might find that the ditch you digged for others, you yourself may fall in. YOUR TIME IS UP!!!!
And here is another valid point someone else posted:
Where does it say to repent to man, or to the church? Even if all this was true about him, I don’t see that anywhere. I don’t even go there anymore and I don’t care what he’s done or not done. I know that when I talk to people who go there, they are exited about what God’s doing. They’re happy and exited about God. Some are friends and have a genuine relationship with Christ. People can be so harsh and cruel to put these people through all of this on the pretense of calling for repentance and freeing the church of some sort of wrong character. You say that their character is being revealed and you’re right. Their character shows me that they love the man of God regardless of what he’s gone through. Their character shows me that they can foregive and move forward. They’ve even had people on here acting with more integrity than their accusers. I’ve spoken with some of them and they only choose to love God and God’s people. Go back and read. When accusations are made against you and your family, woudn’t you stand up for what you believe in? That’s all I see them doing. It’s incredible how much you’re limiting God. It’s incredible that you presume to think the man hasn’t repented of anything he has done to hurt his church and his people. You’re limiting God by saying that He can’t still use a church for good, even when evidence has shown that He is still using the church. You’re limiting God by presuming that the people of this church aren’t genuine in their pursuit of God. You’re limiting God to think that you need to be the one’s to speak out against this church. I’m sorry but who’s doing more defamations? You all assume that anybody that goes there is evil or wrong. Yeah, yeah, we love you guys more than you know. Then show love. Love woudn’t kcik people when they’re down. Love woud pray for them during what they’ve gone through. Love woud encourage. Love woud lift up. Love woud foregive, regardless of how bad you think they are. Show me where you’ve foregiven. Show me where you’ve moved on. Show me that you’re really in a better place now. I know it’s hard to hear these things but get over it. I think that Going On brought up some great points. Where do you all go to church? When you can validate you’re character to the public, then maybe you have some validity. But, there’s been no validation. We still don’t know where 90% of the people on here go to church. How many of you are willing to invite people to your church? I’ve only seen one person on here do it. I’m not talking about inviting them to church or a church but your church. Speaking evil without just cause. Where does it even say to speak evil of others. I think I read “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, THINKS NO EVIL;” oh wait, that scripture goes on quite a bit further. Yeah, yeah, the man is wrong. He must repent. The church is stuck if he doesn’t. Again, limiting God. Show me that one in the bible. So what’s the real issue. I know there’s some out there that are genuinely hurt but let’s see, if they walked in this love, foregave, truely foregave, then they woudn’t need this “call to repentance”. Because they woudn’t even care, they woud have moved on and let go of the past. They woud truely leave it in God’s hands instead trying to be God’s crusaders with no validity of their own. Yeah, yeah, the people I talk to appreciate my voice. And I appreciate the voice of those from this church that have spoken in love and been attacked, condemned, manipulated, etc. I assure you there are others who appreciate it too. So what!! Hey people who believe in this church, call around and see if you can find out where they go to church. Call those “mutual” friends because they’re out there.
You’re validity is in question here. You say you answered but did not. We don’t know where you go to church. We don’t know who your pastor is. We don’t know gives you authority to call for “the virtuous church of North County to arise”. We don’t know who you have on your side. We don’t know what kind of leadership role you play in your church to validate your attacks on another church’s leadership. We don’t know the character of your church. We don’t know who authorized you to attack another church in this region. Your integrity is in question. You are challenged now to validate yourselves. Don’t say people who know us because you’re not talking to them. You’re talking to this community. This community demands that you speak up and tell us for yourself where you have this authority. I hear you saying “Christ and the Church are our authority.” Okay, you may have Christ but what church do you have? Tell us! Your character is in question here. Ignore this and just like Going On, I will repeat myself. You talk about character but do not show real character. Anybody can quote books and quotes and whatever but when you speak for yourself, your heart is really shown. Come on, let’s see if you’re as good as you say you are. Show us who you are accountable to, really. Don’t ignore, fluff up, pretend, prove yourselves. By the way, you talk about his repentance, you’ve never repented to these people who came on here and told you that they knew you said evil things about them when they were going to the church with you. Go back and read if you don’t remember. I think it was something about these people posting were people from the youth group. You even discredited them here but never repented for what they had against you. People, the writings on the wall. Word manipulation is really good but get around the fluffy words and see for yourselves. Really. There, I said it. Grow up or move out. Those are YOUR options.
1 Corinthians 13 (NIV)
Love Defined – The Biblical Signs of True Godly Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Romans 16 (NKJV)
Be Watchful for Those Who Cause Division Using Smooth Talk and Flattery
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus[d] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1 Corinthians 6 (NIV)
Bringing Matters of the Church before the World is Unbiblical
1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a] 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers! 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers. 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 4
Being Sent By Godly Authority/His Representatives On Earth with a Reputation for the Kingdom
1So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. 2Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 7For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 8Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have become kings—and that without us! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you! 9For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men. 10We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! 11To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. 12We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; 13when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world. 14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church. 18Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you. 19But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. 20For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 21What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip, or in love and with a gentle spirit?
2 Corinthians 8
Another Representative Being Sent With Validation of Godly Character and Assignment
16I thank God, who put into the heart of Titus the same concern I have for you. 17For Titus not only welcomed our appeal, but he is coming to you with much enthusiasm and on his own initiative. 18And we are sending along with him the brother who is praised by all the churches for his service to the gospel. 19What is more, he was chosen by the churches to accompany us as we carry the offering, which we administer in order to honor the Lord himself and to show our eagerness to help. 20We want to avoid any criticism of the way we administer this liberal gift. 21For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men. 22In addition, we are sending with them our brother who has often proved to us in many ways that he is zealous, and now even more so because of his great confidence in you. 23As for Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker among you; as for our brothers, they are representatives of the churches and an honor to Christ. 24Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it.
Answers-
why do you continue changing your names? Dont tell me to go back and read the blog, i suggest you go back and read it yourself…. Because SG actually said that she will not respond to any of your lame and repeated questions. I know she answered all the questions earlier in the blog. It’s the same questions over and over. Nothing new. Just a bunch of yaddah yaddah yaddah…. and blah blah blah…. If you start reading from when SG first posted on this blog to date, you will have all the answers to your questions. You just wanted to get a chance on the pulpit, aye?!? Ok then, carry on. I guess I dont need my NyQuil, your postings will put me to sleep in no time. *yawns. By all means- no ill feelings…. Good nite!
First of all, I have not changed my name, what I said to you from the very beginning was that I REPOSTED from someone else some points that were made.
The questions were never answered, they were EVADED. And you are right, they are the same questions, over and over until they are answered. Coming against a church under no church authority is NOT Bible, coming against a ministry and rejoicing in its perceived fall is NOT Bible, cursing at people and belittling them is NOT Bible.
I don’t care what you believe, this is not about you, the questions remain to SG….
And I will post them AGAIN from “Can’t Stand It” who posed these questions earlier…
1. Do they have a church?
2. Who place them in the authority they claim to have? Because posting blog, giving possible unanswerd invitations to your home and your direct number or email doesn’t mean that you are doing anything or have any significance. Only that you know how to type.
3 What church are they submitted to? They will not tell you because they don’t have one. And, normally people like them try to ignore this conversation all together because they are usually only submitted to themselves and their own reputations.
4 Do the pastor know of what they are doing? They probably don’t because they don’t have one.
5. Do their pastor approve of what they do?
6. I mean really, were did their authority derive? Not from anyone around here.
7. Isn’t it pride to think that God has to bring about restoration in the manner or method that you think?
8. Isn’t it pride to think that you are the sole vessel or voice of restoration?
9. Isn’t it prideful to glory in speaking ill of a church.., and leaders just for your power position?
10. Isn’t it pride to think that someone must go through you or be anwerable to you in order to be restored?
11. Have they ever spoken of who they got saved? At AFC people have been coming up for salvation consistently during services. Every Saturday through there work in the communities, children are being led to Christ and being taught Godly character?
12. I don’t know if you get AFC email blast but if you don’t you should sign up (Just go to the website at http://www.ambassadorfamily.com) . The Guinn’s should have went there before they said there was not teaching on character. and that was obviously wrong. The church have been actually ministerd on it for months and have volumes of past series on the subject. You can also go on the website to find all sorts of bulletins on the subject. People should really know what they are taling about before they say things. Do you think it is right for them to say unverified statements in the blinded attempt to set themselves up as “the authority?”
13. And if we want to cast stone, haven’t both Suzanne and Hal both been divorce?
14. Did Suzanne have her children in the confines of marriage? Do her boys have the same father? I guess it does not matter, I am sure it is in the past and under the blood. I which success for them and their boys.
15. Where is your fruit?
16. How many souls have you saved?
17. What good things is your son doing behind bars?
18. What ministries are you involved with?
19. Who do you disciple?
20. What are you doing to move the Kingdom forward?21. Why do they attack others if they are after only one person?
22. Where is the love that the bible mentions in I Corinthians 13?
23. What scripture do they stand on that “the end justifies the means”?
24. Why don’t you invite people to your church?
And please Lupe if you have the answers to these questions from somewhere on this blog, post them. I’d be interested.
Again, no answers from SG, again no integrity…
THIS WAS SG’S RESPONSE ABOUT THE CHURCH SHE ATTENDS…WE COULD HAVE FIGURED IT WOULDN’T BE IN NC…BUT IF YOU CAN’T SAY UNDER WHOSE AUTHORITY YOU COME, THEN YOU STILL HAVE NO CREDIBILITY.
SG Says:
May 20, 2008 at 9:09 am
I do attend a local church in NC. This church and pastor are not being accused of any misconduct so I will keep my place of worship private. Does he know who we are and why we are doing what we are doing? Yes. He KNOWS. Unlike those who have something to hide, our pastor is not threatened by us. He has no reason to be. He is a man of God and would not be involved in such things as BC. He lives his life worthy of the vocation wherein he has been called. He lives beyond reproach and stays away from the very appearance of evil. He actually heeds the scripture in his private and public life. We love him and support him.
CORRECTION, IT IS IN NC…Interesting.
Lupe…. these questions are not directed towards you, so I ask that you let the guinns answer for themselves. They have not answered the questions about who is their pastor and what church do they go to. We should add another one…
Answers…. great response. I hope Lupe doesn’t think you and I are the same people. I tried to post scriptures that verified why these questions need to be asked. I hope they helped. If you go to AFC, I hope that the momentum you all are experiencing does continue. I’ve spoken with some friends who are still members and it sounds like good times. Hal did attempt to answer the questions, but in very vage ways. So, we go more specific, so be sure to add these questions. What scripture do they stand on in their approach on these matters? Who is their pastor? What church do they attend?
Oh, and if they don’t want to answer the challenge and answer the questions, then they can say so. But the post you copied said the pastor supports them, then I’m sure the pastor wouldn’t mind coming forward to confirm and stand with them. So why wouldn’t they want to answer the questions?
ATTENTION EVERYONE IN THIS BLOG!!!
I have to ask that you stop the friendly fire. Forgive BC and the other members of leadership who disappointed you and get on with your lives. Develop your own character and determine that you will not be intimidated to say something to your leaders while you are IN the body next time. What do you have to lose if you’re not guilty yourself? What’s the worst they can do if you call them out and say hey, this isn’t right? Say something bad to your friends? Kick you out? Make you step down from your glorious leadership position? It’s worse to sit by and do nothing then talk all kinds of garbage after you’re already out of the church. Get over it!
If you’re at the new AFC or any other church, learn something from this that we all should have learned. Don’t let the current or future leadership fall into this junk. Don’t allow them to isolate themselves, manipulate or control people, there is a difference between accountability and manipulation. Identify the principality you’re fighting against and address it. Roberts dealt with this same spirit and many, many other leaders in NC have dealt with it. Sexual imorality is a sin. And the spirit of Jezebel is still around and all of this junk falls under this same principality! Address it in the spirit. Pray that God will intervene. Remember that BC isn’t the only one who is accused of this sin and make plans for the future church that will prevent it/her from gaining a stronghold. Establish a church board made up of members of the church and give them the authority to remove the pastor if he is found in sin and refuses to repent. (Ever wonder why all of these people who supposidly walked in on something didn’s say anything? Who were they going to tell?) Give them the authority to over see funds and make them public. There was a lack of oversite last time. Demand that it be changed and appoint honorable people to the board. Have reelections every year so the right people stay in those positions.
Change the leadership standard. Change it from the head down. Expect personal interaction with leadership, they are there to guide and protect you. Respect them, but honor God above all else. It’s not normal for a pastor to be so uninvolved in the lives of his congregation. Demand that the pastor keep office hours and that people can approach him. Most churches actually have pastors that are available for counceling and have some kind of formal training in counceling. For the rest of your life remember that if your leaders do something or require you to do something illegal, imoral or contrary to scripture confront them about it. Even BC told us to do that. But most of all don’t put your faith in MAN! Rely on God to be faithful! BC is not GOD and is not perfect, now he has removed himself from leadership, lost his wife & the church we spent years building, so get on with your lives. He’s out. He owe’s God his appology not the rest of us. MOVE ON!
Aren’t there lives left to change in NC? Aren’t there people to save? Why are you participating in this division in the ranks? Get back in the battle and save some souls. Change some lives. What if today is your last day? Do you want to go before God and say, “God I spent my last few months bashing BC and demanding that he ask my forgiveness for his sins when I could have gone out on the street and snatched someone from hell!”
Carolyn Monroe Churchill
Former Usher Captain, Singles Leadership Team Member, Ambassador Family Church
Current Member, Victory Christian Center
Pastor: Billy Joe Daughtery
email: carolynmonroe@gmail.com
I am also CM above but was using my home computer. Today I’m at work. Different Avitar.
Hi Everybody.
The sole purpose of coming on this blog was to publically ask Barry Cook to respond to the allegations of gross ministerial misconduct and to hold the AFC leaders accountable who took part in the ongoing cover up and deception to the community.
As we can all plainly see, the true identity (DNA) of AFC is revealed by their response and even lack of response to the direct questions. The typical response by AFC when questioned about untoward conduct is to attack the person asking the question and/or to hide behind the false authority that they pride themselves in. Too bad that all that superiority couldn’t keep the house from falling in the first place.
North County knows for sure now what they will be getting themselves into if they allow themselves to be seduced by all the hype and the superficial ministry of these people. The community understands clearly what they will endure when the time comes when they realize that their lives have suddenly become corrupt. When division comes in their marriages that was never there before; when their children’s hearts are turned against the family; when their finances are no longer their own; when their lives are no longer their own; they will begin to ask questions (and begin to try to put order back into their lives) and then they will experience the “ministry” of AFC. They will be attacked, alienated, scorned and publicly ridiculed for daring to oppose the Jezebel like leadership/authority of AFC.
If it were not for this blog, these truths would not be realized by many until it was too late. We got our answers and they are forever in a public forum for the people to decide for themselves.
We hoped for honesty and repentance, but this is not the character of AFC. What you’ve seen here coming from the loins/womb of AFC is illegitimate ministry. It is perverse and disgusting. Exactly the reason why we left in the first place. Exactly why we felt the community had a right to know the whole story.
We believe that the Virtuous Church of North County will accomplish all that is in the heart of God. Why? Because true believers won’t be wasting their time, talents, and finances being a part of a corrupt organization.
Thank you AFC for answering in your true fashion. We’re confident that solid people will be able to discern between good and evil and make a educated decision about who they entrust with their spiritual well being. Jezebel church, your time is up in North County.
God bless the Virtuous Church. Our liberty in Christ will not be used to profane and blaspheme the Holy things of God. We will be preserved until the day of His coming. And we will experience the end time harvest of souls. No one else will get the glory but HIM. Praise His Holy Name!!
When we’ve done all to stand….we’ll stand some more!!!! God has given us the VICTORY!!
Be Blessed CHURCH!!
“We hoped for honesty and repentance, but this is not the character of AFC. What you’ve seen here coming from the loins/womb of AFC is illegitimate ministry. It is perverse and disgusting. Exactly the reason why we left in the first place. Exactly why we felt the community had a right to know the whole story.”
So therefore you can hope for honesty and repentance, but not demand it from yourselves? Isn’t it pride to continue believing without the authority of a church, you are doing the work of Christ?
“As we can all plainly see, the true identity (DNA) of AFC is revealed by their response and even lack of response to the direct questions..”
Yes and we can see the same from you.
“The sole purpose of coming on this blog was to publically ask Barry Cook to respond to the allegations of gross ministerial misconduct and to hold the AFC leaders accountable who took part in the ongoing cover up and deception to the community.”
No, the sole purpose for this blog was regarding Paula White.
“They will be attacked, alienated, scorned and publicly ridiculed for daring to oppose the Jezebel like leadership/authority of AFC.”
The only people doing this to AFC are the two of you…that says a lot for your “Stand”
“We believe that the Virtuous Church of North County will accomplish all that is in the heart of God. Why? Because true believers won’t be wasting their time, talents, and finances being a part of a corrupt organization.”
The Virtuous CHURCHES
The Virtuous CHURCHES are accomplishing what is in the heart of God. And as far as some of us are concerned, you are part of the corrupt organization wasting peoples time coming against a church by your defamation and slander. You have used this blog for self righteous purposes, pretending that this was all about BC when instead it was actually not about BC to begin with. You have used this as a self righteous forum to prove yourselves under NO AUTHORITY to come against a church and its ministry.
You have used God as your excuse to curse people, bring up their past sins, all in the name of God.
“It is perverse and disgusting. Exactly the reason why we left in the first place. Exactly why we felt the community had a right to know the whole story.”
You are right, it is PERVERSE AND DISGUSTING. That you would use this as a place to prove that the people of AFC need your approval to move on. AFC is glad to see the wolves gone, and you are correct, the community needs to know the whole story. YOU BOTH ARE UNDER NO MINISTERIAL AUTHORITY TO COME AGAINST ANOTHER MINISTRY, IT IS NOT BIBLICAL. By standing on your own authority, you prove you have none.
The questions remain…and so does your integrity.
why do u continue to come against the people that are speaking up on what they had gone through at AFC? Who are you? You heartless fool. All of you that have come on here and dismiss us like we are nothing… This is the type of attitude we get from the AFC leadership and from Barry Cook himself when we started asking questions about everything…
STOP, what you are doing. If you claim that AFC has moved forward to bigger and better things, then what the heck are you doing on here?
it is crystal clear just by reading what you post in here that this type of attitude that you present is still alive and well among some of the AFC leaders (NOT ALL – just some) …. If you are making changes and expect people to see the examples of Christ with the new AFC – I suggest you stop attacking all the innocent lives that were spiritually injured at AFC…
who were the ones that stood on scripture, were more loving and forgiving. You say they respond with this type of attitude but what would you have them do… sit by while they’re attacked and slandered, especially if things have genuinely changed but nobody gives them the opportunity to show fruit. Some may be legitatmately hurt but who has been more biblicly based in their responses on here. It’s true that everything is out there in open forum for all to see… and everybody should see who has acted more christlike based on how God tells us to handle these matters. I have enjoyed the scriptures that were used as the support to authorize their attacks… but wait… there weren’t any. Answers and all those who are asking questions are right to ask the questions… because you would want somebody to justify their authority before they spoke into/over your life, wouldn’t you. They want to attack and slander and question, doing the same things they have against BC and the church. Showing they are no better themselves. But, those who stand with AFC are showing more biblical answers… and responses than the others. It’s in open forum for everybody to judge for themselves.
SERVICE TONIGHT!
AMBASSADOR FAMILY CHURCH
2904 MacDonald Street
Oceanside -92054
7:00pm
To Both Sides
ATTACK THE PROBLEM, NOT THE PERSON. You cannot fix the problem if you’re consumed with fixing the blame. You must choose between the two. The Bible says, “A gentle response defuses anger, but a sharp tongue kindles a temper-fire.” You will never get your point across by being cross, so choose your words wisely. A soft answer is always better than a sarcastic one.
In resolving conflict, how you say it is as important as what you say. If you say it, offensively, it will be received defensively. God tells us, “A wise, mature person is known for his understandig. The more pleasant his words, the more persuasive he is.” Nagging never works. You are never persuasive when you’re abrasive.
EMPHASIZE RECONCILIATION, NOT RESOLUTION. It is unrealistic to expect everyone to agree about everything. Reconciliation focuses on the relationship, while resolution focuses on the problem. When we focus on reconciliation, the problem loses significance and often becomes irrelevant.
We can reestablish a relationship even when we are unable to resolve our differences. Christians often have legitimate, honest disagreements and differing opinions, but we can disagree without being disagreeable. The same diamond looks different from different angles. God expects unity, not uniformity, and we can walk arm-in-arm without seeing eye-to-eye on every issue.
This doesn’t mean you give upon finding a solution. You may need to continue discussing and even debating – but you do it in a spirit of harmony. Reconciliation means you bury the hatchet, not necessarily the issue.
REFUSE TO LISTEN TO GOSSIP. Gossip is passing on information when you are neither part of the problem nor part of the solution. You know spreading gossip is wrong, but you should not listen to it, either., if you want to protect your church. Listening to gossip is like accepting stolen property, and it makes you just as guilty of the crime.
People who gossip to you will also gossip about you. Theycannot be trusted. If you listen to gossip, God says you are a troublemaker. “Troublemakers listen to troublemakers.” “These are the ones who split churches, thinking only of themselves.”
It is sad that in God’s flock, the greatest wounds usually come from other sheep, not wolves. Paul warned about “cannibal Christians” who “devour one another” and destroy the fellowship. The Bible says these kind of troublemakers should be avoided. “A gossip reveals secrets; therefore do not associate with a babbler.” Solomon pointed out, “Fire goes out for the lack of fuel, and tensions disappear when gossip stops.”
Let’s talk about attacking….
Go back and read some of the posts where she uses curse words to prove a point. Are you saying that is ok? That it can be justified to bring out another person’s past sins to prove a point?
They came on here and took the past sins of current members and drug them out on this blog. Is this biblical? I thought it was just about BC? Why bring innocent victims? Yes. lets talk about some innocent victims that got caught up with these wolves. Tell me how this is justified? Tell me where in the Bible it says a person can curse, remind someone of past sins, all to prove that the pastor is guilty.
Plain and simple, don’t try and make it more complicated than what it is.
I don’t know you but if you believe this is ok, then you are no better. Don’t come to the defense of TWO people who use unbiblical foundations to prove their point.
If you have been hurt by AFC and are not part of this hurtful process the Guinn’s are using for tactics then it isn’t about you.
If you are cursing at others and bringing their past sins into light even though they have been forgiven by God, then you are just like them. And its an enemy spirit. And I do come against that.
My above post was directed to ANSWERS IS SELFISH.
To Answers –
Your stance of proposing all those guestions to SG reminds me of that saying “How are you going to answer a guestion with a guestion ?” Usually one does this to avoid the original question. Hmmmmmmm….. If all is well, innocent and true why would BC not want the test? I know – CR doesn’t want to get it? (see I have been following this Blog) I await your prompt response. I noticed when it is to defend AFC the response is
almost immediate….
problem is that the questions to BC are to BC, everybody else has not come on here to defend BC but AFC, if you’ve noticed, that has been the case, not really following the blog, are you… BC will answer for BC if he would like. SGs sole reason was to publicly ask these questions of BC which I’m sure he’s not going to answer only because it’s obvious how people on BC’s side or AFC’s side are met with questioning, doubt, contempt, slander, bringing up past sins, etc… Answers, and the others who have asked the questions over the last week have been asking to validate their stance… which they can’t… except with logic and well placed words to make them sound validated. Bible tells us how these things are validated… I’ve been reading the scriptures that have been used here and for the most part… the scriptures have been used by those who SG and others have attacked… Not answering question with question… their questions are to BC and the AFC Leaders that they have issues with are for them to deal with but what others want to know is why they would attack and bring others down all in the name of Jesus. Do you have a relationship with Him, if so, don’t you think it’s wrong to use His name to attack others and bring them down using cuss words and past sins and assuming the worst of others by twisting words and making them seem to have some sort of “agenda of propaganda”… Oh… like it’s been said before… all the questions and challenges would go away if the questions were answered but they’re not.
to “to both sides”, very good points and very accurate… many have come on here from both sides asking for those very things you are but nothing has come of them… there’s a reason… it’s a spirit operating behind the veil of this blog. its that simple. I assure you that Scott will have to step in to draw this thing to a close eventually but it may spill over into other blogs and websites. that would be unfortunate… people should really just move on with life and leave things in God’s hands… how many times have people tried to take things into their own hands only to make things worse than they already were.
To Hmmmmmmm…….
Not that your question was directed at me but I did want to comment with yet another question. If BC has stepped down and CR is no longer a member, then why would you assume a response to your question would be in AFC’s defense?
It appears that the defensive responses for AFC come when the blogs are offensive and directed towards current members, like Abe & Sabrina and/or current leadership. You are correct is saying “Why answer a question with a question?” but then wouldn’t it also be correct to simply ask the question without the additional acccusational commentary that only creates more questions?
Quite simply I have evidence to believe that BC is NOT the father. So I won’t entertain your questions. I simply do not believe he is guilty with this situation.
Do I believe that he has done some things wrong with the church? Yes. And so did the leadership, I was hurt too.
I will say again that I do not beleive he is the father of this child. This was based on evidence shared with me from people who left the church.
Again, where does SG get her authority from?
I come against people who say one thing “I love you all…” then turn around calling people out that really are innocent. If you’ve read the blog, then the writing is on the wall. Ignoring those details is not ok.
It is not ok to bring the past sins of others for the world to judge especially when they claim it was about BC…
Like I’ve said before, if its about BC, then keep it that way, don’t bring people who have already been hurt and use their past sins against them.
One more thing, I don’t care if we all believe in the guilty/innocent verdict of BC. We all should believe and work together to in the spirit that we serve a Living God. A God of restoration, a God of Grace, a God of Healing.
True Christians would know that the judgment the Guinn’s have made here to people who clearly have changed their lives around is wrong and is not justified by some self righteous authority needing to approve and validate the church.
This spirit does not operate to AFC alone, it speaks to the churches all over the world that face these same types of demonic attacks, all in the name of a God so loving He gave His only Son to set us free from the wages of sin these people still bring against others who have been saved and are living right.
Their actions are not ok. It is not operating in Christ to accuse those that have done nothing on this blog but bring peace and harmony. It is not ok to believe that people who worship One God and a True Deliverer at AFC makes them evil in their sight.
God sees us as beautifully and wonderfully made, regardless of what the Guinn’s believe.
If you want to believe what you want about BC, then by all means do so, I am not here to defend anyone but the CHURCH. Not AFC, the CHURCH as ONE BODY.
It’s time to stop defending people who clearly have their own authority and operate in a spirit that looks nothing like Christ. After a while and you look around and see the words coming out are not filtered through the mind of Christ, and the people don’t see Christ on the inside of you, shouldn’t that be a sign?
Christians should be able to look into all aspects of their lives and see God. In the blog comments they post, in the love they give, in the prayers for others. Not to despise, call out and embarass those that are not even involved in the “Stand” they believe God is calling them to.
If it truly was God calling you to this stand, then surely we would have been able to see God in all your posts.
To Both Sides… Says
I used the term “defend” only because I noticed if a blog post and mentions BC/DNA, an answering blog is posted immediately. If I remember correctly Abe and Sabrina came to their own defense and did an awesome job….( I must say – I agree they was no justification for the attack against them)….I didn’t mention Abe or Sabrina and immediately the reponse came to defend BC…… I wish the best to the current AFC. My husband and myself and our children attended AFC and have fond and “fruitful” memories of doing so. Would we return – I don’t know.
This is my first and last post. I didnt want to believe when i was told what people were actually doing on here. I humbly ask from the bottom of my heart for everyone to forgive me for anything that I have done wrong. But I would appreciate it if most of you would just let the situation be. It’s all in God’s hands.
SG and Hal- I wish we could start everything over. Sometimes we get so caught up in worldly things that we loose focus of the Prize (Eternal life with Jesus). I apologize if I have hurt the both you and your family. I take full responsibility for a lot things that never fell through at AFC. I wish not to go into detail. From the new building, to bills, to contractors, the rumors, and many other stressful events it was really hard to stay on track… It was all too hard.
Please know that I love the Lord. I love AFC. And I love my family through the trials and tribulations. Please know that it has not been easy for me either. It breaks my heart to see the people from AFC and people that use to be at AFC fight on here.
To AFC members- I humbly ask that you will not participate by posting on this blog anymore. There is so much Kingdom work to be done. I see from day to day how God is using his people to bring others to Christ. Praise God! Let us now forgive those who persecute us and leave this blog be.
I will not be responding or commenting to anyone on here, but know that I love each and everyone of you. Blessings to all.
Fallen Angel
who is Fallen angel?
Lupe did Junior call you last night?
Lupe- are we still grillin on Sunday for Father’s day?
You guys are lame….like for real…It really is amazing to me how this article was writtin about a divorce In a completely different marraige…and Now…its about a small church in oceanside….that just like everyone has a passed. I mean wow…you all are acting like you never made mistakes.
Think about it…your sins along with Barry Cook’s do not have to be shouted or annouced for everyone to hear…fact of the matter is…if that was truely the case a lot of people wouldn’t go to church or even concider it…just because people don’t like their flaws or mistakes flaunted….
All of you on here are people. People with dreams destiny’s and purposes…but unforunately you are putting all of those are put on hold because you can’t get over one mans’ msistakes…weather they are true or not…
Amazing…your basically telling God to wait because you wanna point out an imerfect person…when really…all you would really have to do is look in the mirror cause one would be starring straight back…
There is no condemnation for those that come to CHRITST and CHRIST ALONE!!!!
Leave it at that.
The reason this blog keeps going and going is because there is a lot of healing that needs to take place because of these situations. I also left AFC in 2001, was never involved in AFC leadership, and never had to personally deal with any of the mayhem that has happened over the past few years. Nonetheless, anyone at AFC can tell you that we all believed in, prayed for, fasted for and tithed for the vision of the AFC House, which we believed to be from God. I still believe AFC has the same mandate that it did originally, but I don’t think it’s right to say, ‘Let’s just forget about this and move on’. We won’t be able to move on as a whole unless this healing takes place. Like it or not, this blog is one of the few places where people can speak openly and ask questions about AFC leadership and situations. All of us who were there know that you couldn’t do that while at the church. If anyone questioned anything they were immediately accused of “having a devil” or “being a Jezebel”.
Although I’m not there now, I still believe in AFC, so much so that I plan on returning to California within the next couple of years to contribute to the rebuilding of the ministry. I’m fortunate – I got away without being hurt. But there are others who aren’t so lucky. For example, I used to work at Morris Cerullo’s headquarters in San Diego. I still have a good friend there who told me that a former AFC member (initials TM – was married to a DM) who worked there was in love with BC, although she was a married woman. She convinced herself that she was going to marry BC. My friend told me that TM would have BC’s picture sitting on her desk at work. When she found out that she wasn’t going to marry BC, she literally lost her mind and went crazy, right there at her job. They had to call an ambulance and the police to get her out of the office. Then they had to take her to the hospital and put her on suicide watch for awhile. This is a person who needs to be healed from the spirits that were loose at AFC. Her story may be an extreme, but there are many other stories of people who suffered because of the spirit of the leadership they sat under. There’s a great healing that still needs to take place here. Many people were strong and didn’t get affected by this junk, but others were affected greatly. We can’t move forward while some people are still hurting so much. People must be healed first. Granted, there is some back and forth bantering here that is a little ridiculous, but it’s all part of the process and will eventually die down.
Despite all of the arguing, I still think most people who were members of AFC loved each other. And we all loved the ministry. Someone named Kingdom Living mentioned earlier that in the future the pastor should not be so uninvolved in the lives of the parishioners. I agree with this 100%. In my opinion, one of BC’s biggest mistakes was drawing himself away from his people. I understand that when a church is large you can’t allow everyone to have access, but in BC’s case this was taken to an extreme. Absolutely no one except leadership could talk to him and this went on for years. It was totally unnecessary. I’ve been in ministry almost non-stop since I left AFC and I’ve seen pastors of large churches who manage to still be accessible to their flock.
In the future, I believe AFC should “try the spirits” more. Many people in leadership gained their positions because of their relationship with someone else in leadership. Some of those “leaders” have turned out to have disastrous fruit – child molesters, adulterers, etc. I am amazed by the amount and type of dirty laundry that is now coming out about former AFC leadership. Now, no one is ever going to be perfect, but part of being a Christian leader is accepting the fact that there is a standard you must live by. This is particularly true for those who are called to church leadership and the pastoral ministry. I’m in the process of being licensed as a Foursquare minister and my past years of ministry taught me that one of the prices we pay for being in ministry is “living right”. But no one can do this completely in his or her own strength. You must trust Jesus to help you and keep you in those areas where you fall short. It’s not easy, but it’s necessary if you want to have any credibility whatsoever as a minister.
Not all that profess the name of Jesus will make it to eternal life… Not all that are christians will make it to eternal life…
So many of you have tried to question Barry Cook… But to be on the clear air, I am not Barry Cook…
PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE CEASE FIRE!
then put your name so everyone is not guessing. How can you post try and address things but not tell anyone who you are> that does not add up.
To Fallen Angel, you wrote in to ask others to cease from continuing, yet when all was finished you wrote in again. Please adhere to your own professed repentance and plea for peace, and allow the Lord to do the work of healing in the lives of many by refraining from any further communication.
After what St. Louis girl wrote, enough has been said on all sides to understand that all of this is now in God’s hands and in God’s judgements. Whoever continues to stir up these matters, in any way, will do so before the eyes and ears of the Lord and will be doing so in disobedience to the call of peace and restoration in the church and the lives of many that have been affected.
Demonstrate your godly character by spending your energies in bringing others to the saving knowledge and grace of God, by your words, your actions and your ministry to others.
I don’t think that the comment by Godly Character was necessary.
It appears the matter is closed and has been closed since SG’s last post on June 11th. They finally got what they wanted and decided to let it go. Then of course a few stragglers posted from out of town not noticing the blog battle was over but as bad as everyone else said they wanted the drama to end, apparently there is still time to pick at each other on this blog. Everyone has one last comment, in attempts to get in the last word I guess including me although I can only pick at myself for wasting yet another minute here. SCOTT W. KAY, IT’S TIME TO SHUT THIS THING DOWN!
Your comment on 6/11/08 was beautiful! I’m glad that this has now come to a conclusion. Blessings and I pray blessings and prosperity over everything that you continue to do! Blessings over your home, ministry and to your church.
No the matter was closed when she found a way out from answering legitimate questions. Leave it alone already, truly give it a rest if that is your intent.
Before I type any further, I would like to go to the Lord in Prayer… And I ask that you pray too. Theres so much that goes on in this world that we dont understand. But I will tell you where Im coming from, I will preach as a dying man to dying men, women and youth… And I will preach as though I will never preach again, and I will tell you things that you will misunderstand, and I will tell you things that will make you so angry with me. And I will tell you things you will not like to hear. And I will tell you things that you will begin to ask why I am saying these things.
BUT before you come to any conclusion, you sit there and ask yourself this question…. You see preaching is a very dangerous thing, it’s dangerous for me… because the Bible says that the greatest teachers will undergo greater condemnation…. So, if what I tell you today is not true, i am in great deal of trouble and have every right to do this with fear and trembling, because I will stand condemn before God but if what I tell you today is true then your the one with cause for fear and trembling. Because if I correctly interpret this passage/scripture that I am going to give you, it is as though God was speaking through a Man. And your problem will not be with me, it will be with God and His word. So the only question that has to be decided is, “is this man writing this a false prophet? or is he telling us the truth? And if he is speaking the truth, then nothing else matters except conforming our lives through that truth.”
Let’s Pray- “Father, Father, I am so small, and so pitiful Father in so many ways. You know Lord, You know. Oh dear God! SHould false fire be the only thing placed on your altar? Could fire come down from heaven? Amidst all the noise and daily activities, could fire come down from heaven? Can these dead bones live? You know Lord. In your sovereignty, I pray and I beg before the throne of God that you would be gracious to us. That you would open up hearts, and minds. Lord we can’t wait for them to open up theirs- they never will open up their hearts and their minds, and cause them to see biblical truth… Breathe on them. Grant them repentance; grant them faith; bring them into your kingdom Lord. For your own Glory, for the sake of your own great Name, do this thing. Lord as a brother would say, Let it be so Lord, so that no man will take credit for it, so that no man will lay a hand in the ark of God, and if he did you would strike them down dead Lord. Oh God! Move among us. Please. Because we have no other hope. We have no other hope. These children have no other hope except that you move… AMEN!
Matt 7:13 –
Matt 7:13 -27: Jesus said:
13″(A)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15″Beware of the (B)false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are (C)ravenous wolves.
16″You will (D)know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17″So (E)every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18″A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19″(F)Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20″So then, you will know them (G)by their fruits.
21″(H)Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22″(I)Many will say to Me on (J)that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23″And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; (K)DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
24″Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25″And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26″Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27″The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell–and great was its fall.”
“I am writing this today and i am not troubled in my heart about your self esteem. I am not troubled in my heart about wether or not you feel good about yourself; wether or not life is turning out like you wanted to turn out; or wether or not your checkbook is balanced.
I’m sorry, but what in the world are you talking about? You said you were going to preach and tells us things that we would not understand and would make us angry but then you said absolutely nothing.
The scriptures were great but what was your point and then your last post was way out there. Care to elaborate?
Some information was shared with me today regarding the whereabouts of Barry Cook.
He is relocating to the North Carolina area. He will be assuming a leadership position in the church. A staff member of the church stated that a hispanic woman who Cook has been dating for six months will also be relocating to the area and will be looking for a job. The woman joining Cook will be bringing her son.
The staff member said that she was very disturbed by the news of Cook’s arrival and that she has been feeling very uneasy about the situation. She said that something just doesn’t seem to be right.
The good people of North Carolina are being misled about the circumstances involving Cook’s relocation and they are not going to follow blindly. This staff member stated that she will be discussing the situation with her pastor.
May God protect the innocent and undo the wicked plans of the enemy!
I could say so much about the “Update” post but I will sum it up in one word…
GOSSIP!!!
Gossip is right in this case.
I hear that he is working with several networks in various locations within the U.S. He is been serving in support roles in several locations in the North Carolina area. Also… I understand he has been spending time with his elderly grandmother in NC. But loves AFC very much and looks forward to reconecting however God desires for him. He is free to contunue his journey. May God continue to connect him, mold him and bless Him.
Some of us connected to BC think this is ridiculous…Does it make you feel like a good Christian to spread lies? “I heard from so and so” yeah, because that makes it truth. You all have some judgement coming upon you. Wow, this is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. None of you have any clue what is going on. But have fun in your fantasy world.
Well to those of you connected to BC should know the truth about BC -and stop being naive about his entire situation. He is not the “poor victim” ~he’s just a fool that needs to repent and get right before God. To those of us that know he’s whereabouts (still living in Temecula) know that his present condition do not bear the fruit of a man who is sound in his mind. Barry needs therapy -that’s unquestionable -and this is not just related to Carolyn, but to everything else that he has produce in his entire ministerial career. You may say, “look at the great church he once had,” and all the major community outreaches that were conducted -well, if you really knew the man, you would know that it was Terri who sacrificed her time building and administering the church while BC “whored” around. It was her that pioneered the outreaches and the people working to make it happen, Barry would just show up late and get his face in the pictures for all the credit, he never showed up to corporate prayer -not once in 10 years! It is sickening to me -to those that continue to defend BC, when you think you know the man. If you truly knew the man, you would know that the only person who he cares about is himself. Why was he living extravagantly when he knew the finances of the church were struggling? Why did he drive an extravagant vehicle when he knew the church’s finances were struggling? Come on people??? This territory would be a much better if Barry was to move out of here!
Living an extravagant life, while the churche’s finances struggling and the church paying your rent and vehicle??? Barry -you are no different from the rest who just want ministry for money!
You guys are tripping again. Don’t be a hater. Keep your hearts with all diligence for out of it springs the issues of life. Your pain is evident. Much of that was a very biased position and I am sorry you are so angry.
Terri did a great Job no doubt, not even in question.
He was the vision and direction of the church. He founded corporate prayer. He prepared many times at the same time everyone was praying. I heard him commenting he could really feel the anointing during that time. Anyway, I also know he has downsized everything and is continueing to follow his councel in every area.
The rest of us on here aren’t angry anymore. We have considered the various levels of possibilities. And we are standing on God healing and restoring everyone involved, including ourselves. I am glad he has not moved yet…we have seen his potiental. What if he really has been transparent to his headship and is truly being directed through therpy and biblical counceling? If he has, we will know in time. Depending on how it is going, I don’t think anyone knows how long it will take for him to get everything directed, focued and entered into a full concecration in all realms. The impact of the divorce alone is enough to rock a person. Needless to say all the other internal battles.
He needs to use all his strength and ideas to secure all of his responsiblities. Book sales, CDs, coaching and meetings. I hear right now you can really get his product for a great price. Some of his stuff everyone needs in thier library. They are unreplaceable. I know others may not care or discount everything he has done. But everyone who has been around awhile knows when you hear a calling coming through a man, that although a clay vessel God speaks through…if you can discern that sound…you can hear genuine now words…that transend time and ages. Yes they must come through a personality but life changing, simply transformational.
So that is why… my prayer… remains on this side of the situation!
He will make it again another! Jacob wrestled until he was changed!
The Lord is faithful to those who are His!
May Christ continue to Grow us all!
Here is a Holy Ghost question.
What are you working on, while he is working on you?
Who died and made everyone judges? i know and understand that so many people were hurt by what had happened, but this is only because you Trusted a man and not God… Barry Cook is not perfect… He makes mistakes…. He is human just like everyone else… Cant you see that a man has fallen?!? It is our christian duty to pray for him and not rejoicing in this matter…. Not beat him down until he confesses publicly to whatever he did… Yes! so many of you want to see him suffer for that one foolish reason, but is it worth it?!? or is it even true? Think about it, what would Jesus do?
I have to admit that at one point, I did feel those things… But I had to learn the hard way and let it go, because it was eating me up…. And it was ugly… and Ugliness is not of God…. That’s the enemy people… And the enemy is just having a field trip with everyone’s roller coaster emotions…. STOP with this “he did this, he did that… he’s moving here, and he’s moving there… ” so what?!? Give the man a break…. God will deal with him in his timing… I dont know Barry’s status as of today, but I all I know is he is at the top of my prayer list..
My prayer is that God will have mercy on all of you that have passed judgement on a man that has fallen (including me)… Dont you know that come judgement day, God will give you the judgment? What makes us think that we are better than this man? We are all the same. We all make mistakes….
Barry, forgive me… I was one of those folks that posted on here, beating you down and anyone else that came here on your behalf. Forgive me brother. I pray for your healing and restoration in Jesus Name… I also posted on here as OKAY! AND… May God Bless you and the entire family… I come and leave in Peace…
In Jesus Name,
“Give the Man a break! ”
a.k.a “OKAY! AND…”
Sorry- I just wanted to come on here and write that… For some reason as I was praying tonite, God had planted in my heart to come out here and let you all know what is right… And the right thing to do right in this situation is to pray… We aint got no time people… He is coming real soon… Dont you all know that we are living in the end times… Go back to the book of revelations… Things that were prophesied are starting to come to life… We are at war people, we have bigger things to focus on rather than on a fallen man… All we can do for Barry is pray… Dont waste time on trying to get all up and up with his business… Let the man be…. God will deal with him… But be ready saints, because we aint got time… So, right now- focus on the word… You better study up the word, because the enemy will test you…. So, just be Ready! Jesus is coming soon… God Bless you all…
Sorry- I just wanted to come on here and write that… For some reason as I was praying tonite, God had planted in my heart to come out here and let you all know what is right… And the right thing to do in this situation is to pray… We aint got no time people… He is coming real soon… Dont you all know that we are living in the end times… Go back to the book of revelations… Things that were prophesied are starting to come to life… We are at war people, we have bigger things to focus on rather than on a fallen man… All we can do for Barry is pray… Dont waste time on trying to get all up and up with his business… Let the man be…. God will deal with him… But be ready saints, because we aint got time… So, right now- focus on the word… You better study up the word, because the enemy will test you…. So, just be Ready! Jesus is coming soon… God Bless you all…
You think Gas Prices are just rising for the heck of it?
You think the food are getting expensive for no reason?
You think our troops want to be out there, rather than being right at home with the ones they love?
Do you honestly think that people losing their homes, jobs, and businesses are not stressed and frustrated?
Did you know that the rate of poverty has increased tremendously? Millions of American families are living paycheck by paycheck.
The crime rate has gone up and not enough money to pay the police officers?
Do you think all of these things are accidents?
Do you think that the enemy will torment all these people? Yes, he will… The enemy will take every opportunity he gets to ruin everyone and anyone that is beaten…
Honestly, look at the picture, dont waste precious time, we have kingdom work to do… To God be the Glory! Put on the Armor of God and Go out there and share the good news with someone that doesnt know Jesus… We have a lot of work to do Saints…
The argument no longer is “those of you who defend Barry Cook.” And if you continue to believe that way then you cast judgment upon yourself. This is not about defending a man, but defending what God can do with a man.
You limit God by saying he needs to repent and stand up right, no one need to prove anything to you. And the only people that need “out of this territory” are the ones that don’t believe God can work without your approval. We have had enough of the Guinn’s, we have had enough of the judgement. Let God be God and let’s all stop pointing fingers and do the work of the Kingdom.
No matter what anyone believes, despite who started what ministry, the work has been established. Instead of blame let’s keep the walls up so that the children in Oceanside can be free, so that the people in Southern California can be restored. This isn’t about what you know or don’t know about BC, the true question becomes what are YOU doing for the ministry? What are you doing for the Kingdom of God. Because I can guarantee that this man is on his knees praying for this territory, praying for you and me, praying for God to move. The sacrifices from such annointed people is what have gotten us this far. Take your judgement and find another place to point it. This territory is tired of people like you and we say NO MORE!!!
Let God be God with no limits. You had a past and were forgiven, no one here is asking you to prove yourself. Come with a legitimate ministry that covers your need for approval and then we have a discussion. Until then, you are just like everyone else with an opinion. One that doesn’t matter.
To God be the glory, Forever.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi_lane_bryant_webaugh01,0,1642159.story?page=1
Geoge Aja was a close ministerial associate of Barry Cook. Aja sent one of his assistants to oversee the administration of AFC. Once she uncovered the corruption at AFC, she left.
If you know how to reach her, contact the reporter. RD/RB protect yourself, but do the right thing and put these infidels behind bars where they belong.
If the link does not work, Google George Aja David Heizmann. Read the story.
Judgement is coming whether some like it or not. Are you scared? Maybe you should be. Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand!!
To the gunman who killed this innocent woman.
I believe you were paid to do a job and you did it. For you, this murder was not personal. However, for the people who mourn, it is deeply personal. Maybe you feel you don’t owe this family anything, but what about what you have allowed others to do to you and your family. Somebody approached you to do this evil because they were too much of a coward to do this thing themselves. Truthfully, you don’t owe them anything either. I emplore you to come forward and reveal to the authorities those who hired you and bring them to justice. The murder does not impress me, but I would be thoroughly impressed with any courage you might have to bring about real justice. What they had you to do McFarland was not justice. It was vengeance. How could you allow those fools to use you like that against your own community. Aren’t you better than that? Stand up man and tell the truth. Go ahead and get your immunity or whatever…just stand up and bring real justice to the bastards that hired you. Remember, you owe them nothing. You owe you and your family real dignity. Don’t miss your chance.
Our hearts and prayers go out to the the families of the victims of this horrible crime. It is always very sad when someone is taken from us before their time.
It is equally as tragic when we marginalize a family’s suffering by exploiting their situation with a conspiracy theory. It is like victimizing them all over again.
Last week, it was reported that SG, while visiting a local vendor, mentioned the story of the innocent women getting killed. Except in her version, it was RD/RB, who died – a former executive assistant of a local North County Church. When she discovered that the RD was not the same as the one who was a former executive assistant she apparently moved on to another conspiracy theory version which she and those who support her posted in “Updated Says,” above. SG apparently communicated very clearly that she has no intention of stopping until those she feels are “not right” goes down. HELLS KNOWS NO FURY, LIKE A WOMAN’S SCORN!
WHEN WILL THIS STOP!!!
When a family’s personal tragedy is used to fulfill a personal vendetta, a new low have been reached.
IT’S TIME TO WAKE UP NORTH COUNTY!!
hi i am a member of afc church and just wanted to know what happens to us the lost sheep of the church. what do i tell my grandchildren where are our mentors. is there someone out there who we can trust. i know we trust god always. is there someone out there that can support us in this trying time without all the gossipp. i really miss the close family we had in our church and this really hurts me and my grandchildren bad. please let me know and god bless everyone. thank you in christian love patricia and grandchildren!
This has turned into absolute stupidity.
Fabricated lies, deceptions, SG and the rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Patricia, I understand how you feel, as a leader at AFC I also find myself wondering what kind of legacy we are leaving when I hear these types of rumors and flat out lies. Every family deals with gossip and every move of God does not occur without the voice from the enemy. You have support, after Sunday and your dedication to Christ, there is even more support for you. Reach out and there are helping hands. Don’t get distracted with the wolves. They are only there to bring you harm.
True people of Christ exhibit God at all times, not only when someone is watching. I encourage you to reach out to the women’s ministry and connect yourself with women who really do have and carry the heart of Christ. Gossip in the end days was already written about. Trust God always and He will give you the discernment of who He wants you to trust. I have gone to Him time and time again with the same question.
We love you, and AFC will continue to move forward.
Ok you guys enough already it’s been like almost 3 years now when is this going to stop it’s getting to the point that its’ not even safe to go to church in oceanside anymore is AFC the only church around? NO!!
move on and get in a church and make a difference in your community. We should still love Pastor Barry. Ya I said it Love the Brother. Did he fall short sure the signs are there but nobody really knows for sure.
it’s sad to see this is happening.
heres a revelation for you maybe God does not want it to go back the way it used to be and it’s up to us as Christians to discover what the Lord wants us to do now in the ever continued battle of advancing His kingdom.
So stay to the the call advance the Kingdom and grow beyond the past and look toward the future God has for you.
I have and I’m FREE
Former Member Of AFC
i would like to know if anyone has carolines email address because i feel as a christian women its our job as a christian woman that we coddle our sheep not to judge them or push them away. so all you christians with no sin repent. because judgement could be put on anyone of us at anytime.and thats not our job . the only one that has that power is our heavenly father. love everyone and anyone from afc who would like to have prayer not talk about all this mess please feel free to email me at any time. in the buisness of saving souls your chritian sister. patricia love everyone from afc and hope everyone is okay and that god continues to bless everyone.
love your santified sister patricia!
People it’s over and done with. Move on already. Everyone has their own opinions and complete agreement can never be reached. Father God knows who his true saints are and who are not. So any further discussion is futile. And frankly this whole topic has become quite dull and boring. Get a ministry life and find something better to do with your time!
Sorry- I am trying to post this info everywhere and anywhere, so that people are aware of the battle that we are in… Please go to the link below and get informed… It is time to stand… To everyone who claims that they are Christians and they Believe in Jesus, it is time to get up and stand for what you believe in… God is not dead… He is alive and He lives within us…. To God Be All the Glory!! I encourage you all to check out the link below…
http://www.thecall.com
Be Bless
In His Perfect Love,
Christina Leilua
christinaleilua@cox.net
URGENT MESSAGE!
Make sure to vote on Nov.4… It is our duty as christians to vote to protect our families and children… Many single christians ask and say how does this affect us when we’re not married or have any children? Take for instance the September 11 tragedy… I did not know anyone in those planes… I did not know anyone in those buildings(twin towers)…. But the entire tragedy changed every single american…… So, I encourage you all to vote if you are eligible and take a stand for what is right… God made all of us according to His very image… We are unique and special in every way…. Anyway, I just wanted to share the informaton because I can’t sit by any longer while the enemy is attacking the image of God…. TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY!!
YES on Prop.8 (protect marriage btwn a man and a woman)
YES on Prop.4 (parental prenotification – abortion)
I urge you to check out the following sites, get informed…. Knowledge of the Word is Power….
http://www.thecall.com
http://www.iprotectmarriage.com
Blessings-
Christina
I didnt even get caught up reading about paul white , but, if she is wromg I dont care, because god said, touch not my anoiting. SOOOO,I have nothing to say : but let her lone God will take care of her ,pray for our sister!!As it says in Pslams 1. read it understand it .
URGENT MESSAGE!
Make sure to vote on Nov.4… It is our duty as christians to vote to protect our families and children… Many single christians ask and say how does this affect us when we’re not married or have any children? Take for instance the September 11 tragedy… I did not know anyone in those planes… I did not know anyone in those buildings(twin towers)…. But the entire tragedy changed every single american…… So, I encourage you all to vote if you are eligible and take a stand for what is right… God made all of us according to His very image… We are unique and special in every way…. Anyway, I just wanted to share the informaton because I can’t sit by any longer while the enemy is attacking the image of God…. TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY!!
YES on Prop.8 (protect marriage btwn a man and a woman)
YES on Prop.4 (parental prenotification – abortion)
I urge you to check out the following sites, get informed…. Knowledge of the Word is Power….
http://www.thecall.com
http://www.iprotectmarriage.com
Blessings-
Christina
the righteous man falls seven time, but God restors him back. we pray for her and not condemn her
Scott, GET OVER IT! The White’s “sin”, if any, is against God–not you. You display the kind of ‘legalistic letter killing Christianity’ that drives people away from the redemptive message of Christ our King. We have a whole world dying and going to hell and you waste time and effort on condemning these saints. If you have any responsibility to these folks at all it’s found in Galatians 6:1.
That would be a good start for all of us. I once heard a preacher say years ago:
“Christians are the only ones who kill their wounded…”
Listen… I feel for people who have fallen. I was a Pastor’s kid of a prominent church in our community. My senior year of high school (18 years old) I became pregnant. I felt so horrible and ashamed of myslef, and wondered if I would ever be able to set foot in church again, sing or ever be accepted. I messed up and it was so public. I eventually moved away, but lived with that guilt for so long. In the last couple years I have sought God and recieved His forgiveness and am getting back up. I believe that He loves me and forgives me, and I have forgiven myself. There are some that still talk about me, but I understand.
However, do all of you out there believe the message of the cross or not? Are you so bold and proud tp say that you have never sinned? If you say “yes’ to that I’d say you are a liar and the truth isn’t in you. I guess what I’m saying is that, God’s love is unconditional but it seems like ours is very conditional with strings attached.
Be a good Christian AND STAY OUT OF THIS WOMANS PERSONAL BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!
Gossip is a sin, too.
You could have discussed divorced without putting this womans business out in the street and bringing hatred against her. Yes thats what you did. Have you repented?
You old judgemental mean gossip!
This will never be published.
Noah Webster 1828 first american dictionary
Disctionary of all dictionaries
GOS’SIP, n.
1. A sponsor; one who answers for a child in baptism; a godfather.
2. A tippling companion.
And sometimes lurk I in a gossip’s bowl.
3. One who runs from house to house, tattling and telling news; an idle tattler. [This is the sense in which the word is now used.]
4. A friend or neighbor.
5. Mere tattle; idle talk.
GOS’SIP, v.i. To prate; to chat; to talk much.
1. To be a pot-companion.
2. To run about and tattle; to tell idle tales.
to warn people about the cult like tactics of AFC is no gossip. Its a warning. AFC is no different from any cult-like church, most churches have some degree of cultlike activity, AFC does all of them.
It is no idle tale to warn fellow trusting christians of danger… the bible states it very clear that we should beware of men, and men who take upon themselves the Authority of our Great High Priest Jesus Christ. These men who take over this unbiblical authority are the ones we should very much warn others from.
In the near future protecting your wife from them may be jsut one of your worries
Gods servants Apostles, Prophets, teachers, evangelist, pastors are only stewards…
They have no authority over the flock, they are babysitters till those in the flock are strong and wise enough to feed themselves the word of God.
that should not take more than a year but they are very crafty to keep you depended upon them for your spiritual needs,
by the way, every christian in the new testament is elevated to a priest; that means only jesus, our Great High Priest, is our only authority… its he whom we have to do, we stand at his judgent in the last day, we are only accountable to him…
the only authority church leaders have is to be a physical example of godlyness and evangelism in the church,
and they have the authority to kick anyone out that doesnt ceased to live in fornication, and heresy. that is the only authority they have none else.
the man rules the house (are suppose to if there are any biblical men anymore) and is the priest in his home. see
the church, civil government, the family… and these 3 godly ministries are to be seperate and ruled seperatly according to the word of god.
now we cant stop government from doing what it is prophesied to do, but we can keep godlyness and biblical order in the church and at home. this way we will be ready for our inquisition when it comes. and they will kill us in God’s name thinking they do God service. (just like in pauls case)
Brothers and sister we need to warn ourselves and stop watching T.V. that convinces us everything is ok.
we fell away a long time ago and began behaving like little roman catholic churches a century ago.
we must stop!
this stuff going on in churches nowadays, is nothing new.
please former AFCers do not think that its only AFC behaving abusivley, after all they think they are doing a godly service, when they treat you that way.
I dont know how we are going to get it through their head that protecting a corporate name (a fictional entity) is protecting the body of christ.
I know what they do, and you tell them, my body is also a temple of God, in fact God’s true temple, just like them, what house are you going to build for him, where is his dwelling place. yea God does not live in temples built by mens hands but in the hearts of his biblical believers.
you tell them that, like they would care anyways. it doesnt matter, we were born out of the Word of truth and not the day we became a member of a 501c3 corporation.
I am a son of God, not barry, he has no authority over me or anyone. whatever…
I dont know what the devil in a jesus suite told him but it aint the truth.
by the way down with that satanic C. Peter Wagner and his regime. he wont take over the world Jesus will.
God bless us as we stay true to his Word
Is your church behaving like a Cult…
see Cultwatch.com
ok now for paula, be a good christian and stay out of a womans personal business…
well, I will be a good Christian, and not shut up…
We as good Chritians are called to contend for the faith, teach all nations, and preach the gospel to every creature…
now I do not know paula or her business, but I think she should be evaluated seeing many people see them and all christian T.V. stars as real christians, speaking real truth and portraying real christianity.
As far as I see they are not, not even, I have much to say against the charismatic and Word of Faith MOvement… for their unbiblical doctrines, their ungodly conduct, and their covetousness they impose on their believers.
as scripture says they preach that gain is godliness, from such turn away.
no it seems to me that paula is part of this movement, and bigotry potrayed by all the hip preachers.
now Scott kays wrote this blog to see our concern and contend for the faith, in this matter concerning divorce and biblical submission to her husband as he submits himself to Christ.
If this guy randy, i think is not submitting himself to Christ through his Word, I cannot say whether or not paula should be submitting herself to that man.
Now I dont know honestly all about this woman paula, because I dont watch christian televion, mostly because they arent good preachers anyway, and when i did or used to as an adelescent christian, and i got more into the Word of God, I finally got sick of them and stop watching.
I seen paula somtimes preach if thats what she calls it, more like christian pep talk about god knows what
hold on let go, blah, blah, blah, you have no idea what they are talking about… makes you wonder if they do. probaly another depresing woman preacher like joyce meyers, making concentrate on your depresion and vain comfort on something is going to get better or god is going to do somthing awesome,
what bull,
a true christian reads his word daily, if there is sin in his/ here life the word of god cleanses it. God restores are mind and gives us a heart of flesh when we continue reading his word. youll know when its working when you get to be refreshed and continance lifted. when you feel warm and full of abounded love you, know you read sufficient amount of the word of God. quite this selfish “christianism” more like paganism, stuff that god is going to do somthing in my life then ill be happy, blessed, or a blessing. that stuff is bogus and satanic.
If we want to be blessed we must first two times a day continue in his word, then God will prosper us…
joshua 1:8
I start with the book of psalms and do not stop reading till i feel sufficient love and hope, and soberness. me it takes like 10 chapters sometimes to you maybe less…
anyways i recall on the scripture commit your works unto the lord and your thoughts shall be established.
I do not feel a christian can live outside of the Word of God daily, mathew 4:4
as the scripture says he is the vine and we are the branches, without him we can do nothing… these words he speaks unto us are spirit and they are life.
it is a tree of life to every on that lays holds upon it, wisdom comes from Gods mouth i.e the Word of God…
God Bless
as for concernign paula i support christian contending for the faith to the best of our ability.
after all this is our responsibility, along with teach all nations (thats what we are doing) and preach the gospel to every creature.
this person is promoting herself to be this great preacher of our lord jesus, so she must be watched and evaluated. after all gods precious little one are growing up, in this satanic world wanting to find God and truth…
as they should so they turn on the christian station, to find christ and what he is all about, and then they find these guys.. omg, what insanity…
so they asume this is christians after all if it wasnt would true christians speak out agianst it. well yes and no, most of us including myself, were never brought to the faith through the word of god, and worked tiresly dailly to understand it. it is like learnign a new language, indeed it is, since we do not use appropriate words (bible words anymore) because we speak vage new age words… the devil has been very busy, and since christians have not been contending for the faith, or thought BEING A GOOD CHRISTIAN IS TO SHUT UP not say anything, is satanic and insanity. most christians like myself believed these people were christians and preachers because we did not understand the word of god as we should. perhaps it was do to the apostate christianity we were ingulfed in, that deprived the word of god from our understanding,and the pagan system our beloved todays churches have adopted from the roman catholic church and have not fully reformed form is also the problem.
when you go to a church, and have to sit under an hour and a half of preaching, you intake all tha garbage and have to sit there the whole time. its bad… see this is brainwashing 101. of course you dont have to sit there the whole time, but hey peer pressure and public opinion is a son of gun.
no this is not appropriate for christian faith, jesus didnt preach a hour and a half of this vain pep talk, he spoke what he needed to say, to his specific audience, and ran off to the wilderness for safety.
only his disciples could understand teh meaning of his interpretation, because they had ears to hear, adn desired to enter the kingdom and support jesus.brothers and sisters i believe we need that heart, no matter what the sacrifice labor to know the knowledge of the kingdom and the Son whom God has sent. then upport jesus to the best of our ability,… for the work is many and the labores are few.
thank you scott for allowing us to blog here, and to examine these decievers called preachers, i myself believed and preached heresy and it is easy to fall therein when we do not know the truth as we should.
god bless
I attack no person’s charactor but their doctrine, it is a battle of faith.e.g….
Faith in God’s Word in the Context that it is written or faith in man’s Word in his personal interpretation for his benifit and his unbiblical dominion over men concerning religious practice.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
see http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain21.htm
http://www.deceptionbytes.com/content/strong-delusion-new-apostolic-reformation <= very important to read!
please, dear reader these things are not made up, they really do preach these things in certain charismatic circles, while everyone is wondering what paula is doing, these men are getting stronger, adn the poor delusional folk supporting them are their strength…
see its more than money, it’s about conrol, when these men have the world… along with the jesuit order, christian cults, and paula who associates with these people and is slowly preaching their doctrines, to see if there is no resistance. It’s all over…
no place to run, no place to blog…
no one to affirm you are doing the right thing, and no one to trust… this is real
please comment…
control*
Dear readers I feel I need to clearify a few more things…
attention AFC members my words are not against the AFC members who are held captive by the C. Peter Wagner system. C. Peter Wagner’s system is heavily practice there at AFC.
Please readers understand, you just cannot walk away from a church you hold dear to yourself and has been there for you, that wasnt the case for me, but I pondered long enough how that wouldnt be easy for someone else, because you have no idea how they are going to react when you say you are leaving. remember you have no idea who you can trust there, you have no idea who is benifiting in a special way and will tell on you, that you are leaving, or how they may use somthing against you. they did not treat me in a bad way when i left
It is totally different from being a visitor, visitors come, and are a mesmorized by the activity adn the involvement of the church and feel blessed there, yea when you are merely a visitor thats the way it is, but when you aree involved and decide you dont want to be anymore, because there is no longer any biblical preaching going on anymore, It’s different. So Apostle Barry Cook starts preaching his New Age witchcraft (horoscopes, manipulating the cosmos, why we need to have a new world order that would make adolf hitler jealous, having church government that will fulfill all ten plagues of the communist manifesto, excercism, crunching the that sick feeling in the stomach, which is the Holy Ghost warning you not to practice such spiritualism; because you are exposing yoursef to demons, slapping his deacons in the face while he preaches, {he only did that once, showing his disregard for his deacons}) the only good preachers there were deacon paul and joey,…
and when one of the people preached that camparing church doctrine to the Bible was the spirit of religion, I said OMG…
This has to stop, I thought Barry was a good preacher when i was a visitor there, but when he started preaching New Age doctrines I didnt think so anymore.
I don’t even want to start on his guest speakers, ill just say they say everything heresy and play with the emotions of the people, (touching talk with music).
yup im NOT against the members of AFC, just the unbiblical doctrines, and the scorn they have against comparing what they say to the God’s Word.
oh if you click on the link becarefull, it is shocking to realize that is what the new apostolic movement is teaching.
Also remember what C. Peter Wagner said, he wanted to make all churches just like AFC,… he is well pleased with AFC, they do exactly what he wants…
God Bless
Wow, John Calvin wrote a book, i think ill check it out one day…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4114696187749649421&q=Rick+Hawkins&total=332&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Rick Hawkins…
if C. Peter Wagner said that, that’s saying a lot. but, I assure you there is nothing about C. Peter Wagner’s systems being taught these days. from what I see, it’s all inspired by what God leads, especially the services we’ve had lately. sorry to say, none of the things you stated are still going on at AFC. been here for more than 2 years now and though it’s been tough, the hearts of many have been transformed to a more genuine pursuit of Christ than you can know of. and since you stated some of the issues you had with AFC, I can be fairly positive that you left more than 2 years ago because I haven’t seen most of what you said, and I do keep my spirit on guard against things such as what you said. also, those that did exist when I got here, don’t anymore. so, though AFC and Apostle Barry Cook have repented and moved on, I’m sure they are apologetic to those who were hurt and they are looking to move forward. I had heard there were quite a few former members at his service back in September when he apologized. seek one of them out for their thoughts because I’m sure they have something to say, both good and bad. but that’s fine because you’re not gonna get it 100% right all the time, are you? If that was the case, we’d be in Heaven already. btw, I look forward to seeing you in Heaven, if not sooner, I really do. I respect your posts and your opinions but felt that they are far from the current situations at AFC that there needed to be a balance to what you are saying, and it’s been displayed before on this blog but just want to be sure it’s not lost in all of your posts.
praise the lord, good to hear that afc is not following in wagners ways, good to hear afc is moving on and serving the lord by serving each other, good to hear barry is moving on and serving god. may blessings continue to flow through afc as they continue in his Word
the site i meant to put was
http://www.deceptionbytes.com/content/strong-delusion-new-apostolic-reformation
what C. Peter wagner teaches…
please may it not be fulfilled!
What if she is protecting herself from her ex
suing her.Without knowing all sides of what
really happened.How can you say she is not telling
the truth?What is she is coving up he left her
for another woman or man?I have heard he stold
from Church Without Walls.Also he had a
relationship out side of their marriage.
I have heard a preacher say church are like
chickens.If one chicken has a sore.All the other
chickens will pick that one chicken to death.
Jesus says we must clean up our own lives.
Also when we see our Christian brother or sister
in a sin.Go to that person yourself.However
we must be careful not to fall into what they
are doing ourselves.Only God himself can give
us the power to turn from sin & live a real life
for him.
If Indeed Paula White blames God for her divorce, it is blasphemy and she has set a bad example for christians because both of them were held in high esteem. There is need for them to remember James 4:7, 1st Pet-3:8. Nobody is too big to repent.
I just heard that BC just married CR! The Truth has come out!
Hi Faith, I attended AFC for many years but we left just before this storm hit; God moved us out to North Carolina. Where did you hear BC married CR? I saw your post and did a search of marriage records but could not find it.
I heard about it from a Past AFC member who was very close to them.
God forgive me if I am wrong, but the person who told me explained it as factual.
I’ve beeb reading some of the blogs regarding Paul and Randy White an I am appalled. I can’t believe the saints of the Most High God are airing dirty laundry on a web site for anyone to read. If a brotheer or sister is overtaken by sin, you which are spiritual (considering yourself because it could have been you)go to that brother or sister and restore them. There are more important things to discuss that the unsaved need to hear. Trust me this conversation i not one of them. Whether Paula and Randy are right or wrong they are still God’s children and He knows how to deal with them, He needs no input from us.
They live their lives in the public eye. They wont hear the church’s rebukes unless it is done publicly as well. They are so stuck in their own dillusions of their own greatness that they are blind and deaf to the Truth. We must do it publicly because we cannot allow the unbelievers to think that we, the body of Christ will tolerate members that walk in this way, justifying their sin by saying it’s Gods Way! Rediculous. We will openly rebuke them of sin and cut them off from the body. The world must see that God is nobody’s fool. God will not be mocked.
Do you not think that after 3 years they have not been addressed in private. Do you think that the Lord has not sent someone to correct them. The church now must openly cut them off and as Paul states “hand them over to satan so they may learn not to blaspheme”.
Let me preface this comment by admitting that I am not a good church going Christian in any sense of the word and I would never pretend to quote the good Lord or interpret what scholars have spent centurys arguing about. I live this life I lead because I choose to or have to.I live the way my heart tells me to live and I will reap what I sow all too soon enough. What I will say with great certainty is that if all the preaching is true, I will have company. I read the Paula White Bio, church cleaning abused single mother rescued by Randy White who goes on to ascend to greatness and build a great church etc, etc, etc. Phooy! I see two TV con artists sucking the life out of the religiously addicted while waving the good book as a shield against retribution by the powers of the material world. Where have these two been annointed by an established authority to explain God’s word to me or anyone? What institute of learning has pronounced the Whites to use the title Pastor? Can I send in my 100 bucks and get in on the gravy train? The principle of prosperity? Isn’t that nice. Sounds more like the opening line from the Sting. The Whites are doing exactly what the rest of us non-believers do when they get bored with the spouse. You don’t need a Bible to explain what that is. I only have one big problem with what they do. STOP holding yourselves up as the exemplar sent from above and get your hands out of everybody’s pockets. Life coach, yeah right! The only way my little warm spot in hell could be worse is to follow thier example.
It astounds me the level of judgement of professing christians in here.
May God have mercy upon your sin of judgement and give you eyes to see that you may judge mercifully.
first, let me say something about the whole overall sitiation. had paula white stayed at home and under subjection to him, they no dout would not be getting a divorce. apostle paul plainly says that a woman is not not not suposed to teach or ursup authority over the man. read it in corinthians and and and timothy. the word of god does not compromise or contradict itself. dont fire off on me, fire off on paul. he spends time in evry book of the new testament that he wrote, telling the wife where her place is, but because we live in a country where we put women on a pedastool the women will not not not listen to gods word. i am not a wife abuser either. i love my life as my own body like aul says to do, and i honor her as the weaker vessel, but she must be under subjection like the scripture says. god bless all of you
Mark, anyone that believes and espouses what you do will eventually be abusive because those are the seeds on which abuse will germinate. Shelter workers report that Christian women who are abused suffer worse abuse because their husbands feel justified by scripture. They will deny that it is abuse, though. In that sense, that the Christians are no different from the non-Christians. They all practice denial, minimization and blame-shifting.
I think you need to read all of Paul’s words in context. Check out http://www.submissiontyranny.com
Pastor White is not only twice divorced, she is alleged to having an affair with BENNY HINN!!!!!!! Not all who say Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven.
But Jesus also says that a Harlot shall enter before you! HArlot are hoes and sleep with everyone, some for money some for gain. Regardless what for He was saying Do not use my words to condemn, Do everything in love! The people who like you who are judging and giving opinions are just like the Pharisees, and still the Harlot they presented to jesus was forgiven and not them. Be carefull. Proverbs says to never befriend an angry man, lest it be a snare for your own soul”!! There is no way this started with love this debated is from pure hatred and disdain for God’s mercy and Grace!
If God Is The Judge, Then you Need to Repent Also, Sin Is Sin
Everybody is Judging paula for sinning..
Everything against scripture is Sin, But nobody is Judging Sodom Husane for Killing Thousands,
Or Judging America for Murduring fifty Million Babies,,,
Wake up People,,,
Thats Why Jesus Died for us,, To Save Us From Our Sin
Yes I agree with you” Either God Is” or He Isn’t” Regardless of what happen,, they need to live by the sword, which is the Word of God.. This Prosperity message has gotten out of hand also, and I feel these Ministers are listening to a lying Spirit concerning it. Robert Tilten is a prime example of that.. We have another minister that lives in a thirty million dollar home, and if that Minister would come to me and say that he doesn’t love money, I would find that very hard to believe considering all the lavish toys he owns.. Let’s be honest about it, How did Jesus deal with the rich? Better yet! How about the Apostles? Some of these Ministers have embraced them selves over to filthy Lucre.. I’m sorry folks that doesn’t line up with Scripture here, and I honestly believe if Apostle Paul was here today they wouldn’t like him very much, because he wouldn’t embrace the Prosperity message they way they’ve embrace it. I’ve heard Kenneth Copeland say Smith Wiggles Worth missed the mark concerning Prosperity.. I’d say he lived the Word of God, more then missed it.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jesus said they would say” Mt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Why did Jesus say this if they weren’t performing such tasks? I would never say that these people are lost, but I’m not going to water the word of God down either
In the Scriptures, the Apostle Paul stated that Deacons and I believe this applies to all leaders, should be above reproach, what does this mean? To me this means that leadership in the church should strive to be perfect in all areas of their lives, always considering the name of Jesus Christ above their own, so as not to shame in any way the Gospel they preach. Paula may have impacted people’s lives in the past but I believe her disobedience, weakness, and ignorance of the scriptures is catching up to her and she is being brought low. We must obey the word of God to the letter, either it is all true or it is all a lie, we cannot ignore one command while trying to walk out another. As a women of God, the Lord specifically directs that women are not take a position of authority over a man and that women are not to speak in the church. In my church a women does not take position of authority in the church or over the church, a women does not lead the church in prayer. A women may speak when given the opportunity or permission if you will, of the man in authority. This way is the Word of God folks!….some people may say ” it’s a wrong interpretation, blah, blah , blah” I believe God’s Word is clear to those who are submitted under it 100%. Jesus Christ is my life and my Great Pearl, His way is beautiful to me, no matter what anyone says His word is perfect and true and it protects us. Paula, from the beginning, was either not taught the Word of God or she has ignored what it obviously states, she took a position over men pastoring a church, her husband allowed it, her pastor TD Jakes encouraged it, people accepted it, now years later her life is falling apart, her marriage, the Holy covenant before God, and yet she holds on to her position, using God to justify herself. Does not God reveal His mind and way in His Holy Word?? How can she claim to know God when she cannot obey His standard teachings? yet she can somehow reveal and teach “mysteries”?? I don’t think so…False Prophet.
I agree with the points in this article. She and Randy have not taken personal responisbility for their part in the dissolution of the marriage. It takes two to break the marriage covenant that G~d initiated, and they joined in. Yes she needs to humble herself and not blame G~d for this trial. Divorce is hell for all involved, and G~d does not cause divorce; it is bec. of the hardness of hearts.
Scott,
In 1985 I became a Christian and have worked in ministry before and since that time. Having been involved in and around Christian ministry in the Tulsa Oklahoma area has caused me to question the validity of my Christian faith. People like Paula living the Rock-n-Roll life style who are self absorbed. I believe the “church” is so hungry (lustful) for the “lifestyle” which leads them to be defensive of anyone who represents such in the name of God. Should some of these same people have the opportunity to see the real person the pedestal would be knocked out from under them.
Carmen is no saint, he is a man with lots of issues like many of us. Through a mutual friend I know more about that man than I care to. Having been married for 23 years I will confess that I have broken my wedding vows by committing adultery. In doing so I hurt my wife and our relationship and put our family in jeopardy. Beside the mental and physical costs to me I have caused pain to so many others. Through repentance and walking this out with my wife I have been forgiven or we would have only been married five years instead of 23.
Back to people “like Paula”; these days I have a hard time referring to myself as a Christian and yes I do know what the Bible has to say about denying Christ. It’s not about denying Christ… There are many people like me who study their Bibles, attend church, follow the teachings of Christ, Love people even those who despise us. The funny thing is; We Don’t Like Many of the Typical American Christians. Or should I say American Idiots? We care about people who are gay, in “sinful” relationships, who do not care for church attendance, have liberal political views, etc. We may not partake of their belief or lifestyle but we are friends to them, business associates, family members. My wish for many Christians would be that they may see the American Church as the “world” see’s it.
As a business man one of my biggest gripes concerning many of the people in ministry are the worst about paying their bills. Part of the problem is they feel entitled as “children of god”. Another part of the problem is many have this “build it and they will come” type of faith they exercise. All the while they are not up front with you about their business plan to pay the bill with donations and when those donations are not what they expected you get to share in their “loss”. Should most businesses operate this way they would be out of business. Ministries can survive for years operating this way; Maybe they are “blessed” by god??? Good Grief Charlie Brown!
Wake up America! Most of these creeps are schisters! Put your money into your family, friends, local church and other people around you. I could say a lot more but will stop there and for you haters, I really don’t give a $#it!!!
Why or how can Pualá White say that her deviorce is a trail from God when He hates deviorce. The only way out is. Adultery. It seems that spiritual learders do not know how to keep a marriage together. Either that or they do not know how to forgive.
Paula white. Needs. To take responsabilty as. a leader in. The. Ministry. What. Can. We tell. The flock. She. Is. In this. Simply to. Get. Rich.
Abigail married the wrong man… David married a woman that HE had to kill to have. He had many wives and still God told Him you could have whom ever you wanted. God tells us to be courageous..You know why because we still have that Pharisee spirit of believers who think that becasue they are living a life worthy of being called right it entitles them to judge or critique anoother persons life. NOT SO! If Jesus does not do it then neither should we period. Pride is what it is. All we are doing is giving the person who wrote this the power to spread lies, goosip, deception, malice, and quarrel. Let God judge Him and Paula. Jesus did not say the only way out of a marraige was adultry, no more than God the Father told David the only way Israel could be saved was to commit murder(Goliath, when he was instructed to get his family from the philistines) Before you speak for Him you need to know Gods character. He is still that same God. He never changed. David had a heart after Gods own heart. He did not have the heart of a murderer and an adulterer. But yet He commited these offenses in the eyes of God. You cannot tellt he flock anything about anyone if God did not give you the command to teach them. What Jesus was telling us is that Grace abounds!!!! And He will not allow anything or any sin to stand in the way of His love, salvation, hope, blessing, or purpose. You can try to live perfectly if you want but the pharisees did the same and they were called a brood of snakes, WHY? because they taught against grace! Forgiveness is superior than any sin. Grace is superior than sin! Mercy is superior to sin! And grace and mercy is the person of Jesus Christ. How disgusting is this debate in the eyes of God! If you put a fool and a wise man on a street corner and they are found debating who looks to be the fool? Both of them! God is not in the crowd. He is not up for debating. He is God. And what seems to be the missing link here is the HOLY SPIRIT! The saducees did exactly this.They questioned Jesus. WHo would be this womans husband in heaven? None of them. Neither is Paulas husband because Jesus is all our Husband! SHe can mess up. Just like all of you with your hidden sins and sit here and debate and discuss someone elses. How dare you!!!!!!He does not remember the sins of the believer. Not past, present, or future! Let her be. Let God lead her becasue she is the teacher not any of you. And when God blesses her to remarry or be healed and give her understanding, you will all be sitting in your mess. She is His child!!!!!! Whether you agree or disagree remember this,”No weapon formed against her shall prosper, and ANY tongue that shall rise against her shall be CONDEMNED”! That is her heritage as a child of God. Shame on you !!!! You might be right about facts but fact and truth are not the same. Jesus is the truth and His truth is grace, mercy and forgiveness and most of all LOVE. So go back to the bible you scholars and meditate on that! Brood of snakes you are! Hypocrites!!! Who are you!? If Jesus was your KING you would not fight amongst yourselves or agree with such negativity! Do everything in love, love your neighbor, pray one for another, do everything to edify the church, love covers a multitude of sin, what about these sayings. They were spoken by our same God! the same Holy Spirit. Ask yourself why this is not enough! God hates divorce but He does not hate people who goes through it! He hates all sin but you ALLL sin everyday, yet you are selfish to think you are the only one HE is able to forgive!!!! I leave you with the words that david spoke, “Have you not the fear of the Lord to not touch Gods annointed.” Thats why He did not kill saul. Because H knows that no matter your sins or mistakes, God says touch not my annointed!
AMEN, BOY WAS THAT WRITING WITH THE FINGER IN THE SAND…WELL ALMOST …OH WAIT…I GUESS IT WAS WHOEVER AMONG YOU HAS NOT SINNED, THEN CAST THE FIRST STONE? OR WAS IT…YOU SNAKES! VIPERS!!..etc….HMMM…I THINK ALL OF US CHRISTIANS ARE CONFUSED!!!!!!!!! I TOO AM DIVORCED AND NEVER SAW THAT IN MY FUTURE AT ALL!!!! PEOPLE CLOSE TO ME THREW THE BIBLE AT ME TOO AFTER IT…SAID THINGS LIKE..”YOU KNOW IF YOU REMARRY YOU ARE IN ADULTERY” I NEVER INTEND TO REMARRY BUT NOT FOR FEAR OF ADULTERY…I DID A STUDY AND “UNDER THE BLOOD IS UNDER THE BLOOD!!!!!!” PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS WHY THE WORD NEEDS TO BE RIGHTLY DIVIDED…BECAUSE THERE IS LAW THAT BRINGS ABOUT DEATH …AND THERE IS GRACE AND SPIRIT THAT BRINGS LIFE…JESUS WAS FULFILLING THE LAW SO WHEN HE SPOKE ALTHO HIS WORDS ARE TRUE AND ALWAYS TRUE…HE WAS FULFILLING THE LAW…PAUL WAS SENT FOR GENTILES TO TEACH US THE GRACE MESSAGE, HOWEVER HE WAS TAUGHT THE LAW SO IT TOOK HIM AWHILE TO GO FROM LAW TO GRACE…BUT HE LANDED IN PURE GRACE IN THE END…IF WE UNDERSTAND THIS THE BIBLE GETS EASIER…NEVER A LICENSE TO SIN..NO NO NO …BUT GRACE IS GRACE AND UNDER THE BLOOD IS UNDER THE BLOOD PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!JESUS FULFILLED THE LAW AND DIED WITH ALL OUR SINS ON HIS BACK….AND RESURRECTED THROUGH THE POWER OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT….SPIRIT…SPIRIT…TRUTH…SPIRIT….NOT LAW…NOT CONDEMNING….YES GOD IS HOLY….YES HE IS TRUE…YES ALL HIS WORDS ARE TRUE….WE NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT TO HELP US WALK IN GRACE, HOLINESS, PLEASING GOD NOT MAN. FOR MYSELF I REALIZED I NEEDED TO REPENT OF MY DIVORCE AND LEAVE IT UNDER THE BLOOD TO WALK FREE OF GUILT AND CONDEMNATION….WOW THANK GOD FOR JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very judgemental article that doesn’t represent love at all in my opinion.
Wow, this article is pleasant, my sister is analyzing
such things, so I am going to let know her.
This is simple people. The word of god says to ministers this command. If your house is not in order then step down from your position until it is. To Paula and Benny and all others who have the responsibility of the pulpit you need to minister to your own life, bring healing to it before you can properly minister to others. Unfortunately so many are addicted to the money so they will never do this.
Tips. Lucky myself I stumbled upon your internet site out of the blue, that i’m taken aback exactly why the following chance failed to happened earlier! I personally saved as a favorite this.
I am a liar, cheater, murderer, adulterer, fornicator, a thief, a hypocrite, chief among sinners, & I am so thankful, for God’s goodness & faithfulness to me when I have not been good OR faithful. I have been forgiven so much. One thing I am thankful for is the true Christian who instead of running me into the dirt, interceded & prayed for my healing & restoration back to the Father. I don’t know the ins & outs of Paula White, but Christ character in us should want to lift her up in prayer & not tear her to shreds in spiritual mayhem. It is our place to love, the Holy Spirit’s place to convict, & God’s place to judge. Judgment is coming for all of us, & the word warns us to not think of ourselves to highly. We need to examine our own hearts. He who has no sin, cast the first stone…
Paula’s response is understandable. She is a business professional, and a successful one at that. Paula is no different than our elected officials or even your supervisors at work. Paula renders services and is duly paid for services rendered. God has absolutely nothing to do with it.